Clintonism and Feminism — VP Edition

You do not screw over the person who did all of the heavy lifting simply because you are a small man who’s ego might get hurt.

I will be president!!!! Hillary Clinton

I think the die-hard Clinton fans are missing the boat. They appear to put their own agendas ahead of the American people – which candidate best represents women’s and childrens’ and family issues? Obama. McCain represents big business and the wealthy best. It’s a no-brainer, and to cast a revenge vote or to vote against your own interests is foolish and makes the rest of us women look foolish. Obama has the right, as every other nominee, to pick whomever he or she feels bests meets his/her requriements for a running mate. Let’s all be adults and stop the whining and take care of what is really important – the American people’s needs.

I will judge both of the candidates on their records. John McCain has more women than men employeed in management level positions and pays these female staffers more than he pays his lower level male staffers. Obama has more men employeed than women and pays women with the same experience and training doing the same job less than he pays the men in his campaign. Seems like McCain walks the walk while all Obama does is talk.

Please define “a lot of Democrats,” because this sounds like b.s. dinner table talk to me.

I will not vote for Obama if he does not pick HRC as the VP

Truth Matters,
You are right on target. Of course it was, is and always will be all about Hillary.
Also, I think that if the dems nominate a halfway articulate woman, then the Hillary lovers will rally to her as well.

” If he picks a woman just to try and appease people who voted for Hillary, it will be an insult. ”
Considering people who voted for Hillary keep repeating that picking a woman would be an insult, I doubt he would do it to “appease” you. He would pick her BECAUSE HE THINKS SHE IS THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR VP.
How demeaning for women that so many people think the only thing Sebelius would bring the ticket would be her gender.
She is a very successful progressive but moderate in tone two-term governor.

the REAL question is why do die hard hillary supporters constatnly whine and whine, yet their beloved candidate is up to her neck in debt.
if she REALLY had 18 million supporters and each one donated 5 dollars, she would be out of debt in no time. hillary supporters aren’t about advancing the cause of women. they’re about hillary, which ironically would then take feminism a step backwards.

The CHANGEling is NOT the Democratic Party nominee, so any VP-naming on his part would fit into what Arianna Huffington, a formerly-rabid booster who seems to be attempting to debuss, today calls “premature pontification”.

If Obama picks a nonentity like Kaine or Bayh, and McCain responds with a female (like Fiorina) lots of females will flock to McCain. At least my wife will, and she’s normally a Democratic-leaning independent who doesn’t think much of McCain. But there really are angry females out there.
Me, I just don’t like Obama’s past associations with characters like Wright, Dohrn, and Ayers.

“Didn’t she run not just so she could be president, but so it would be easier for other women to do so?” Do any of you actually read Feminist writers? Third wave Feminism is about the RADICAL idea of equal treatment of women and men. Try brushing up on some First Wave Feminist writings by Teresa Goddu, Mary Ann Doane, Laura Mulvey or even Adrienne Rich before even discussing Feminism.

katmandu,
what about McCains past associates: the lobbyists running his campaign, the keating five, his morals in leaving an injured wife for a rich trophy wife?
what’s your real reason?

I am a 56 year old woman, retired executive, mother of grown children. I would love for Obama to select a woman OTHER than Hillary for VP!!! The issue is not so much whether feminists would support the choice. (Because they can not be true feminists if they support Hillary) The issue is can the Clinton Clan allow another woman to be the most powerful woman in the party. That is their greatest fear. Loss of power in the Clinton camp.

Senator Hillary Clinton is the most qualified person-male or female to be vice-president. She also is the most qualified person to be President. So not choosing her over some less qualified woman is poor judgment by Obama. Obama is afraid that she will steal his thunder and show him up because she is more qualified by a long shot to be our President. He would be reminded of that everyday and he can’t handle it.
Without her as VP he will never be elected. 18m people voted for her in the primary. She cracked the glass ceiling. She deserves to be VP.
McCain will win and in 2012 Hillary will be our President. Just watch and see.
Obama is in over his head.

Hillary ran because she wanted to be president. I don’t know that making it easier for other women had anything to do with it.
If Hillary had won, what would Obama supporters say about her choosing say…Harold Ford as a running mate?
As for Sibelius, McCaskill, and Napolitano — the problem is they aren’t really *more* qualified than Clinton or even Bayh. Obama would have to make a compelling argument about why he chose them at all.
The ultimate goal of equality would be for us never to discuss or notice gender or race in these elections.

This meme of ‘women only want Hillary’ has to stop. You know 18 million votes can not be only women.
Clinton is a far better candidate for President, it doesn’t really matter gender, race, whatever.
It was demonstrated over and over again in the debates, her knowledge of the issues, her grit and toughness against the GOP machine, the MSM, and the ‘new flavor’ democrats. It was demonstrated by not caving on the issues like FISA, women’s rights.
“Oh, she has baggage!”
“We don’t want Clinton-Bush-Clinton!”
“He is so inspirational/transformational!”
Obama is a WEAK candidate, tied with a republican in a year that should be a wipe-out.
I hope PUMAs oust him in Denver!

As hard as it may be to believe, most Hillary supporters viewed her as the better “candidate” to be President, not the better “sex”. I did not vote for her because she was a woman, but rather because she was so much more qualified to be President than Obama. I feel the next best choice to be McCain,then I would have to go Third Party before Obama. It seems there are an awful lot of people out there that would like to think that others are voting by sex and race when it is simply not the fact. Hillary is by far the most superior candidate that ran in this election! The DNC made a huge mistake in “selecting” Obama. They will soon see that.
Posted by: Another Dem For McCain | Jul 29, 2008 1:01:53
———————————
EXACTLY!

I agree with you, Texas Lil.
Ever since the primaries finished, I have felt that the reason Obama has been showing fairly well in the polls is because a good number of Hillary supporters took her at her word and swung their support to Obama.
However, I have also believed that this same group of Hillary supporters will also quickly withdraw their temporary support of Obama as soon as he names someone other than Hillary as his running mate.
Guess we will soon find out……..

As an Obama supporter, I have no problem with Senator Clinton. I greatly respect and deeply admire her. My problem is with these so-called Democrats who supported her and threaten to jump to John McCain if THEY don’t get what THEY want.
If you want to vote for McCain, that’s your right. But don’t waste our time telling us that you’re Democrats, that you believe in the things that Senator Clinton is fighting for (including Obama’s candidacy!), or that you aren’t trying to make the race about YOU.
Senator Clinton has called on her supporters to vote for Barack Obama on November 4. If you believe in her, heed her calls. But if all you believe in is your obsession with your own sense of entitlement, then prove it by voting against your candidate’s wishes and against your own interests. That’ll show ‘em!
In any case, I strongly suspect that many of these so-called PUMAs are merely Republicans playing dirty tricks.

It is about feminism whether Hillary or any one else thinks so or not. Women “of a certain age” are not “marketable” in this culture. And that is all we have in this country in place of a campaign, “marketing”. Because Obama is not my second choice after Hillary does not make me less of a feminist, as someone has accused in one of these posts. Thomas Jefferson said he wouldn’t go to heaven if he had to be a member of a political party to do so. Personally, I feel freed to vote Green, something I have wanted to do but was always frightened away from by the specter of the greater of two evils getting into office. No more of that. We need total campaign/election reform, nothing less, and we won’t get that from either major party.

In any case, I strongly suspect that many of these so-called PUMAs are merely Republicans playing dirty tricks.
Posted by: LESD | Jul 29, 2008 1:23:36 PM
——and you would be so very wrong.

You may be right — many PUMAs did leave the Democratic Party and register as Republicans or as Independents. It appears like the Democratic Party is splitting in half — the socialist faction plans to keep the name “Democrats” because it is more acceptable in American politics and the capitalist faction … well, they became Republicans. After all, Donna Brazille and the like said that the new Democratic Party didn’t need its base. And the African American vote has always been more important to the Democratic Party than the women’s vote–right? I mean a woman must be emotional or hormonal if she doesn’t automatically fall in line and do what the men tell her to do, right? If she doesn’t support the Democratic Party’s decision, she’s either psychotic or has fluff for brains, right?

I agree most HRC supporters are in the obama camp ecxept PUMA crybabies. Were is there headquarters? I wanna send them a Whaaaaambulance!

I just called the National Obama Headquarters and advised them I will not vote for Obama if Hillary isn’t his VP choice. Their response was “I’m sorry you don’t understand the importance of this election and he is looking for someone that has experience but isn’t a Washington insider. The lady that I spoke with was very arrogant and condescending. I would encourage everyone to call the Obama campaign and tell them Hillary has earned the VP slot. She is not seriously being considered. She got 18m votes and deserves serious consideration.

In any case, I strongly suspect that many of these so-called PUMAs are merely Republicans playing dirty tricks.
Posted by: LESD | Jul 29, 2008 1:23:36 PM
——and you would be so very wrong.
How do you know, HP Boston? Seriously? Do you know every member of this group?
I said “many.” Not “most.” Certainly not “all.”
You can tell us with iron-clad certainty that some of these people aren’t Republicans trying to sow division among Democrats?
You and I both know that you’t say that.

Well it’s the same thing but the market will respond quicker to a fall in demand than a supply that is 10 years away. Besides I don’t think cogress lifted the ban so they still can’t drill no matter what W says. But if you did both then look out $2 gas then you can have your SUV and still continue to kill us all.

Obama should not have to be bullied by hillary supporters to make her vp its his choice, Anyway hillary does not want to be vp there are better positions for her!!!!!!

trettione
“only a sexist would vote for obama”
are you kidding?
McCain
against equal pay for women rights
against affirmative action for women (white women being the biggest recipients of affirmative action)
over turn roe vs. wade
against a woman’s right to choose
agaisnt…or on the wrong side of every “womnen’s issue”
healthcare for single mothers
childcare and the list goes on
and his personal life speaks not to well for his view of women in all situations including marriage.
war hero yes…hero for women…not even close

these are the same noble women who have left Hillary high and dry in debt while they spew their spite telling people to give money and join groups like PUMA
People under mental arrest.

There is nothing about this argument that makes any sense. I have no doubt that some Clinton supporters were using feminism as a front, but to suggest that he would LOSE female votes for nominating Sebelius is insane. Frankly, I’ll be pretty ticked off if he doesn’t pick her and I’m a full fledged Obamabot. She’s CLEARLY the best choice – he needs an operations person, she’s totally boring, has integrity, and is popular in a red state. He’ll clean up in the Midwest with her on the ticket. Clinton supporters be damned, I hope Obama thinks about the opinions of female voters who have supported him all along. PICK SEBELIUS! DO IT!

“Obama has the right, as every other nominee, to pick whomever he or she feels bests meets his/her requriements for a running mate.”
Yes he does. But a decent candidate would pick the running mate that best fits the country’s requirements. That he can’t bring himself to choose her says more about him than all of the McCain camp possibly can. Obama is for Obama. He puts himself above both party AND country.
Hillary Clinton is not simply a woman or even a feminist candidate. She is the best qualified for the job. That said, I hope he picks someone else because whereas in April I might have voted for that ticket, at this point, honestly I don’t think I can. She is qualified. Obama isn’t.
And in four years I can vote for Hillary. I’m content to watch the Republicans clear out their own messes until then. Democrats too. The Dems badly need new party leaders who can get it done. What they have now couldn’t get out of a job review without a demotion in rank and salary.
Anyway, McCain’s choice for Veep is a lot more interesting at this point.

Voters like HIllary not because she is a woman but her unique experience. If Obama chooses another woman for VP then he disrespect her experiences, her effort to unite the party, and help to raise the funding for him and DNC. He tries to use her then throw her off her bus. He even wants both Bill and Hillary to campaing for him. She is more qualified than any his VP pick.

as a women i think for women but hold common sense,
those who say this are mad at him and it doesn’t matter they dont want to see him as president anyway.
anyone with a lick of sense knows he can NOT pick her as his vp with out taking a HUGE chance on upsetting those who have supported him all along and having those who follow her still refuse to vote for him not to mention what the republicans can throw in the mix.
she put any chance of her being vp to bed when she outright said he was nothing but a speach and talking great about mccain!
those who want to vote for mccain after following clinton confuse me. To follow clinton and believe in the future she promised you and then to be let down is hard im sure. but you then vote for someone who couldnt be farther from her no good will come of it and i think they will regret it later!!
with economy and the war most of all..

Obama is not qualified to be president. It’s that simple, Obama is in over his head, The guy can’t put two sentences together without a script or prompter and his arrogance is pure sickening.
My family and friends are mostly democrats (as I used to be)–changed to independent) and are voting for McCain or staying home–that is a given. One thing for certain, in PA, McCain really does have chance to win; no matter what the Obama surrogates tell you.
Clinton got the shaft from both the DNC and the jr. senator from Chicago; just doesn’t sit well with most democratic voters. After all, Clinton won the popular vote, and yet will not be even considered for VP–hope Obama loses.

I don’t think that is the issue at all Jake. The problem is that so many democrats are not comfortable with Obama’s lack of experience and poor judgment. If Clinton was the VP then she would more than make up for his ignorance. So it is not that people would not vote for Obama if he picked another woman, it is that they won’t vote for Obama. Clinton would be his only saving grace because people have confidence in her.
Democrat for McCain–Clinton 2012

Yep, John McCain votes against almost all government spending programs. He has this stupid idea that the budget should be balanced and the only way to do that is to stop taxing and spending. He also has this stupid idea that states could run those programs instead of the federal government. Yep, John McCain has a horrible record of spending tax dollars on social programs. But that is consistent with the policies he preaches. Obama is the hypocrite because he preaches equal pay but then underpays the women who work for him.

dl – I’m going to address your comments because they are ridiculous.
McCain
against equal pay for women rights
…actually, female McCain staffers, on average, get paid MORE than the male staffers, while Obama pays his female staffers less. Do a Google search on it.
against affirmative action for women (white women being the biggest recipients of affirmative action)
…actually, white women get get the shaft when it comes to affirmative action. If affirmative action didn’t exist, white women would fill every college campus and every state and federally funded job. White women also get paid less, on average, than African American men in many cases.
over turn roe vs. wade
against a woman’s right to choose
…McCain is not looking to overturn Roe vs. Wade, he believes it should be left up to the states. A middle-aged to eldery man who happens to be President should not be making those kinds of decisions for women, no matter what their decision might be. It should be left up to voters in individual states.
agaisnt…or on the wrong side of every “womnen’s issue”
…Yeah okay. “women’s issue.” You’re a real feminist, I’m sure.
healthcare for single mothers
childcare and the list goes on
…Wrong. McCain intends on giving tax credits to single mothers and self-employed women who purchase health care. He is also going to expand health care delivery sites, making health care in the U.S. more affordable and accessible for EVERYONE. Including women. He is also for WIC and the Health Start Initiative – both which benefit low-income mothers.
and his personal life speaks not to well for his view of women in all situations including marriage.
…How?

I was a Hillary Clinton supporter. I contributed to her primary campaign and I have contributed funds to help retire her debt. I am a conservative blue dog democrat who will be voting for John McCain because he is a capitalist not a socialist. That said, it would be a terrible idea for Obama to pick Hillary as his running mate. He has been branded as the candidate of change — a Washington outsider. Choosing Hillary would damage that brand and he’s not got anything else going for him. Plus it wouldn’t change the way I would vote at all. It’s the economy, stupid, and with Obama at the top of the ticket he would be making the decisions — and God help me I will not help elect another Jimmy Carter.

Well wasn’t it clear from the beginning that he was not going to pick Clinton. Especially when he hired patti solis doyle.
Democrats are running to McCain no matter who he picks. The only way many would vote for Obama (and still many would not)is if Clinton was on the ticket. The world is finally seeing that Obama has been grossly over marketed. I think it is called false advertising.

I have read all the comments posted here and to Mr. Tapper’s credit, his question has generated much divisive response.
IMO, this question has become one of the NEW WEDGE issues of this current election cycle.
Throughout the Democratic primary, it became ‘personal’ because there was LITTLE difference in the ISSUES and PLATFORMS of each of the candidates – Senator Clinton and Senator Obama.
The MORE important question for the upcoming election is to CONTRAST & COMPARE the Democratic Party’s platform & agenda (Health Insurance for everyone, Energy Independence Plans, Green Jobs which cannot be outsourced)to that offered by the Republican Party (NYTimes article that Oil Personnel donating over $1 Million to Senator McCain’s campaign since he REVERSED his position on Oil Drilling).
IF each voter does not research the issues and choose to vote for a WEDGE issue; then, like the Reagan Democrats, they will be voting AGAINST their OWN INTERESTS and more importantly with the state of the country’s economy and the ongoing wars, AGAINST what is GOOD for the USA.

I thought so but don’t really care.

aston,
nobody is here to convince or looking to be…..everybody is spitting out opinions….like assholes, everybody’s got one

It doesn’t matter who Obama picks at this point – Hillary or no Hillary – I won’t vote for him. And more and more people are coming to that same decision. He isn’t qualified as anything except an empty suit blowing hot air.
McCain with a democrat-controlled Congress is exactly what this country needs. Remember Bush with a republican Congress? How did that turn out? Obama with a dem Congress will be every bit as bad, and probably even worse.
Just say no to the radical, inexperienced Obama!

The question lacks logic. If Hillary couldn’t manage her own campaign budget to the point that she’s now over 10 million dollars in dept even with what seemingly should have been the benefit of the experienced counsel of her husband, President (forever ya’ll)Clinton, why would any presidential candidate in their right mind pick her to co-govern a country that’s currently over a trillion (and growing) dollars in debt. I mean it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure who AIN’T gonna be Obama’s VP. Come on now, people.

Before you attack Republican on rights learn history – Republicans were behind getting the Civil rights bills passed , women right to vote, blacks right to vote, and ending Slavery, what did the dems do?? uh tried to filibuster the civil rights bill, fight to keep slavery , starting a new group of people Dependant on them!!
Libs are directly responsible for the death of over 1 billion people over the last 60 years!

NeilPA, one correction. Obama is a FRESHMAN senator, not a JUNIOR senator. You inadvertently gave him more experience than he deserves. Kind of like when the University of Chicago so obligingly played along with his claiming the title of professor as opposed to the lecturer he is.

Marylou, you may have a point. When Jimmy Carter was President, I had to park my muscle car in a garage and go to work on a motorcycle. The interest rate on my mortgage was 18%. Two of my neighbors lost their houses when they lost their jobs. I came close. Today, I can still drive to work although it cost me a small fortune, my interest rate is only 5%, and the local bank didn’t hand out ARMS like candy so our neighborhood isn’t in distress.

Senator Clinton ran so she could be President. Period.
All that “woman” talk was just an afterthought when “strength and experience” and “ready on day one” fell through.

Hillary Clinton (and many of supporters) are bullies. Who wants to deal with that everyday?

Perhaps 18 million Democrats didn’t vote for Hillary. Perhaps 18 million Democrats voted against Obama because he is a weak candidate. After all, the majority of votes for Hillary came long after it was clear that Barack Obama would be the party’s nominee. Maybe South Dakota was a warning shot over the bow that the DNC chose to ignore at their peril.

JustA wrote:
After all, the majority of votes for Hillary came long after it was clear that Barack Obama would be the party’s nominee
*************
Please, they were the Rush Limbaugh Operation Chaos folks at work. When did that campaign start? Think about it. The Repubs wanted to run against HRC because they hate them and that would get the base fired up to vote against the Clintons. They have soooo much info on the Clintons and wanted to use it.

justa wrote:
Those margins were a result of anti-Obama votes–pure and simple
********
Logic would dictate that most votes were pro-Hillary and not anti-obama. When I cast my vote, I was casting it FOR someone and not against the other. Most people I know vote like that. They vote who they prefer, but will support the other candidate when necessary.

It is quiet possible that Hillary surged toward the end of the primaries not because she was popular but because a vote for her was a protest vote against Obama. It would be interesting to see how much her support increased after the media declared that it was mathmatically impossible for her to win. That would explain why her “supporters” are not paying off her debt and that would explain why her “supporters” are not falling in line. It was never about wanting Hillary it was about not wanting Obama.

Typically you wouldn’t unless you wnated to vote against the other candidate.
Posted by: JustAThought | Jul 29, 2008 3:50:07 PM
*********
Maybe because it was historic. Saying you we able to cast a vote for the first viable woman running for POTUS. That is huge. Some of the people who were voting wont be around next election cycle.
Why do you need to see things in such a negative light? It’s kinda sad.

I voted FOR Hillary in the primary; I’ll vote AGAINST Obama in the general. See how that works? And there are lots more like me, rest assured. The coalition against Obama grows stronger every day.

Hillary is playing Obama and the DNC for the fools they are. See you all the convention. Why don’t you look back at the 1932 convention when the banking crowd tried to steal the nomination from FDR. Same stuff, different year.
Hillary 08

Josh,
I agree, since the RNC already produced an attack ad featuring Bill and Hill’s FRAUD case out in California. Just what AMerican wants to vote for, a POTUS that may be indicted for FRAUD 2 weeks after the GE!! I would hate to see my RNC donation dollars go to waste, LOL!
BRING IT ON!!!!

DNC selecting Obama over Clinton, who has more popular votes, reinforces the reality that an absolutely unqualified, lesser experienced man is promoted over a qualified and experienced woman. Placing a woman on the ticket as VP, if he is the nominee, would only be viewed as placing a token female to meet a goodwill quota….what a schmuck move.
But, really, the underlining issue is that Obama is not qualified to be president, no matter who his choice might be as VP, the fact remains the same: unqualified Obama is still unqualified Obama.

OK Obama supporters, go right on thinking that women who support Hillary want her to be VP. Works for us.

The difference between Senator Clinton and the other “special women” that Jake Tapper nominates as alternatives to breaking the glass ceiling is that Senator Clinton has paid and paid and paid and paid her dues, helping many of those same women along the way. The eighteen million supporters of Clinton did not support her to break a glass ceiling, we supported her because she was the best candidate. By definition that makes her the best possible vice-presidential candidate as well. Good luck to the Obama if he fails to recognize that.
========================================
Visualize the Obama!!!
No vetting necessary!!
========================================

I think right now you all should be more nervous if Obama picks Kaine
he is both anti choice (although like Bush when he was running said he wouldn’t over turn Roe…and then changed )
and Kaine is anti-gay rights.
I know lots of you on here right now say you wouldn’t pick oBama because of Hillary…
but I have to say…if obama picked Kaine he would be making it very tough for anyone in the base.
Especially if McCain has enough leeway and clearance provided by a Kaine vp choice to pick a Ridge.
as most of you know I am the biggest obama guy out there but this Kaine guy ,,,whoowee… if obama picked him would certainly take the wind out of my sails…along with half of his base.

dl:
I finally agree with you on something!
Hillary would be a total fool to play VP to Obama.!
She would be spending all of her time cleaning up after his boneheaded messes.
These are turbulent times….
Should Obama win…. let him struggle through them on “words… just words”.
Should prove interesting.. albeit disastrous.

“She ran a bad campaign for the first half of the primaries and that caused her to lose. It’s that simple.
Sorry, folks. It’s the truth.”
That is only a half-truth. She ran a bad campaign the second half, too! Race-bating, fear-mongering, buying into whatever would get headlines, overspending, etc.
Jake is right. It is anti-women’s progress for the Hillary supporters to scorn and shun other woman as veep choice.
Obama 08!

Wow! Not only has Obama dissed my girl, now he’s gonna distance himself from ALL women? We will be moving backward. At least the republicans take the Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as a serious VP not just a token.

I have noticed that there is certainly a pattern in the general election campaign. One candidate is offering to build up personal responsibility, stabilize the terribly inefficient and inequitable health care system, and refocus our financial resources to solve our problems instead of those of oil-producing nations abroad. The other is simply trying to tear down the other instead of building a better America. So far completely deregulated markets like savings and loans and mortgages has worked out well and pumping tremendous resources into projecting military force abroad have worked out well in the past! I can’t think of anything that would make a terrorist happier than to know that we willingly give up our prosperity by shifting our resources away from our needs and to solving everyone else’s problems in the world!