Isn’t it Ironic? Obama vs. Obama, McCain vs. McCain
EmailFROM GUEST-BLOGGER RICK KLEIN, from ABC’s The Note
OK, so maybe it doesn’t meet the technical definition of irony. (I’m as bad as Alanis in identifying the real thing.)
But this morning’s Note got me thinking quite a bit about consistency and the perils of hypocrisy in this race where both candidates, to a remarkable degree, define themselves as avatars of a different kind of politics.
First, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. He’s been wrestling with inconsistencies and perceived shifts in recent days — NAFTA, FISA, guns, and now add welfare to the mix.
And on the very day that he delivers a speech on patriotism where he tries to rise above politics-as-usual, it’s an old-style debate over who said what about whose military credentials that bogs down the campaign.
That’s how the Wes Clark storyline is potentially damaging to Obama in the long term — as brand erosion. Clark had and has no formal role in the campaign beyond offering advice when called upon, but as a prominent supporter and surrogate, what he says does rub off on how Obama’s perceived.
“Fine — but then don’t turn around and say we’re going to have a different kind of politics,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said in response. “This is politics as usual.”
McCain has inconsistencies of his own to account for — on taxes, most noticeably, but also with some maneuverings on immigration reform, and on energy policy, with his recent reversal on off-shore drilling.
Then there’s the odd manner in which the McCain campaign pushed back at Clark — with a conference call that included one of the original Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Bud Day.
(Does it really take a Swift-boater to know a Swift-boating?)
You may recall that, four years ago, McCain defending his fellow Vietnam veteran, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., by decrying the Swift boat attacks as “dishonest and dishonorable.”
This year, as USA Today reports, nine Swift boat donors and their families have contributed $69,100 to McCain’s campaign, all while McCain remains critical of the activities of so-called 527 groups.
Again, consistency matters, particularly with these two candidates who have so much riding on their images.
– Rick Klein
Mitt Romney's Full Speech at CPAC 2012 
Romney Makes His Case to Conservatives at CPAC
This is nonsense and an attempt at moral equivalence.
It doesn’t matter what McCain does. He is supposed to be the same.
It does matter what Obama does. He is one that is new, original, and DIFFERENT from past politicians.
Arguing that they’re the same argues that Obama is no different from any other politician.
OK, you win. He’s not.
Now tell America.
Posted by: drjohn | July 1, 2008, 9:48 am 9:48 am
How can anyone think Obama is fit to be POTUS? The man can’t take a firm stand on anything. Some people can see so many sides to an issue, they have trouble making a decision; Obama certainly seems to be one of these people. And all the “advisors” in the world can’t compensate for that inherent flaw.
Posted by: HoosierSue | July 1, 2008, 9:55 am 9:55 am
“nine Swift boat donors and their families have contributed $69,100 to McCain’s campaign”
Wow – that’s a whole lot of money per family! McCain accepted it, put Bud Day on his committee – the word ‘hypocrite’ springs to mind. Certainly not the word ‘trustworthy’.
imo, it proves Obama’s point about needing to be prepared to push back against the (potential) Republican 527 groups. Does anyone seriously believe they aren’t going to spring into action in September and October?
Posted by: Tom J | July 1, 2008, 9:56 am 9:56 am
drjohn: McCain is the maverick, remember…
Actually, though, none of these blogs matter as the issues to discuss have been pointless. I guess ABC doesn’t care about healthcare, war, the economy, or real issues…
Posted by: doc | July 1, 2008, 10:00 am 10:00 am
mccain has a battle with himself every day hes still trying to figure out what he supports and what he opposes does he want to be mccain or does he want to be bush mccain is so confused he dont even know what kind of president he will be now thats the battle for mccain!!
Posted by: angie | July 1, 2008, 10:05 am 10:05 am
drjohn,
No. McCain is supposed to be a straight talker, a maverick, and a moderate. He’s neither.
He’s flip-flopped on every major issue to please the conservatives.
Posted by: Vanessa | July 1, 2008, 10:05 am 10:05 am
dont worry obama is well prepared for mccain karl rove fox news and the rest of the slimy gop hes gonna beat them to their own game!!!
Posted by: angie | July 1, 2008, 10:10 am 10:10 am
Republicans have trouble winning this election on issues. Thats why we see McCain changing positions more often!
Posted by: Peace | July 1, 2008, 10:11 am 10:11 am
One step ahead of McCain, McCain will move further and further to the right, he has no choice. He can not agree with Obama, how can he criticize him if he takes the center?
He told the Democratic Party what they needed to do four years ago. He talked about God then, he talked about the middle, he talked about social issues that matter to all people, not just the far left. It has been the Democrates failure to capture the middle. Although I perfer the far left over the far right, I have been disappointed that the Denocrates have been ignoring the mainstream. I think Obama heard that message long ago.
Posted by: Thinking | July 1, 2008, 10:21 am 10:21 am
You need to be able to see all sides of every issue to make an intelligent decision.
Posted by: GetaLife | July 1, 2008, 10:23 am 10:23 am
WHEN will anyone ever answer my question as to WHY Obama LIED to audiences in Idaho about his Nuclear Release Notice Act, telling them he had passed it last year, when in fact HE DID NOT??? Not only did he not pass the bill, he rewrote it and watered it down to the point of including language written by the Nuclear Power industry OF WHICH, he is indebted to being that they are one his LARGEST campaign funders.
Still, no answer.
Posted by: IndyDem | July 1, 2008, 10:25 am 10:25 am
Obama is guilty of whopper class flip-flopping and yet the Obama ####### excuse every single flip and every single flop. Reminds me of the song “there’s something happening here, what is ain’t exactly clear”.
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Obama, the chief architect of BitterGate
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Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | July 1, 2008, 10:34 am 10:34 am
This article outs the problem of symbolic politics in the press. Axelrod and Plouffe have played this game so often they now think it is THE game. The Republicans played it in the Clinton years and then elected G.W. this way. McCain appears to want to use a different strategy but is forced back to it by Obama morphing into G.W.
As a result Obama has lost credibility and focus. There is no message that one can trust to be the same except that Obama is for Obama.
McCain has stature but is losing focus because he is forced to respond to surrogates while Obama claims to be above the fray. That enables Obama to set the pace just as he did with Clinton. Clinton overcame that by becoming an energetic and laser-focused speaker while her family stumped in the places she couldn’t go. McCain doesn’t have the advantages of Bill and Chelsea.
But as both sides go forward, there is an increasing sense of distaste for this election cycle and the tricks being used. America knows there is serious work to be done and nothing suggests these candidates are prepared to do it.
Hillary Clinton looks better and better. Obamalosi and McCain are looking like the weaker choices.
This isn’t good for anyone except Hillary and she isn’t in a position to do anything about it.
Posted by: len | July 1, 2008, 10:49 am 10:49 am
“The young soldier who first spoke about the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib – he is a patriot. Recognizing a wrong being committed in this country’s name; insisting that we deliver on the promise of our Constitution”
Obama can’t tell the difference between a patriot and a traitor. Since when do terrorists get constitutional rights? Frightening. Obama has no allegence to the USA. and the constant attacks on McCain only backfire. The DailyKos/MSNBC/Huffington crowd can’t help themselves. that’s all they do. they did it to Clinton too.
Posted by: geevill | July 1, 2008, 10:54 am 10:54 am
First there is a difference in the changing of opinions ok and that is clear to anyone with an open mind
1 – taxes – McCain was against the tax cuts because there were no spending cuts and no one expected it to help the economy the way it did, when McCain saw the tax cuts have helped our economy to the best it has been in decades he said they work and he will keep them, more money came into the government then ever before – Obama wants to raise taxes.
2 – Drilling – at the time McCain said no to off shore drilling oil was les then 2$ and it was not an emergency, now it is and unlike Obama he sees the emergency and will drill!
3 – Immigration – he changed to do enforcement first as the people requested.
Now Obama – Has his surrogate Clark go out to attack McCain’s military record with lies so Obama can give a speech that people will report on. The only reason Clark did it was for that.
Remember under Clark millions died in Dafur and Somalia!!
Obama tells the American People that NAFTA will be change, mean while has his surrogate go and tell Canada and Mexico that it is just talk.
Obama and the rest of the Marxists tell America vote for them and they will get the troops out of Iraq, then we find out from one of them it was just talk to get elected.
Obama supports his anti-American Mentor until his mentor calls him a politician
Obama is against the 2nd amendment and then funny thing is after the Supreme court decision Obama feels the same way!! He would not give an opinion the day before he said wait and see.
Obama goes to the jews and says Jearuselum should be the capital of Isreal and the next day goes to the Palistineans and says it should be split. (the is going to do great for peace)
Then Obama will talk with the enemy without pre-conditions, then with a setup and then with minumal conditions and then with preconditions.
Obama will not run for President, the next day Obama is running for President.
Obama says if the Republican take federal donations (whatever it is called) he will, then when the republican says he will Obama refuses and becomes the first Person since the concept of the funding to not take it!
Obama denouces 527′s but then supports his 527′s which out number the republicans 8-1
Obama denounces terrorism, then is found out he is good friends with and even consulted with a homegrown terrorist!!
Obama said he will not play the race card, and has since played it liek crazy to the point he is the only reason we know he is Black!!
Posted by: spock | July 1, 2008, 11:13 am 11:13 am
143 days in the Senate
20 YEARS listening to Jeremiah Wright
obama
Posted by: GettaClue | July 1, 2008, 11:16 am 11:16 am
politics is a strange little world! people are extreme about campaign slogans..
at the end of the day the issues are what is going to shape our lives not the slogans for the campaigns..
mccain talks about doing it with integrity and friendly like when everyone knows he loves to yell and curse so its not as if he is 12 weeks old and a binkie cooing and smiles.
and obama talks change but he still has to fight attacks and make sure people know mccain isnt the innocent great yet vibrant healthy grampa who loves everyone like he wants people to believe , some things are not going to change its POLITICS …
Posted by: melissa | July 1, 2008, 11:17 am 11:17 am
Indy Dem, I’ll answer your question. Obama lied about his Nuclear Release Notice Act because he thought he’d get away with it. And why not? I’m convinced he was testing the media waters with the Rev. Wright fiasco – where he hit the cable networks on Friday night claiming never to have heard Wright preach anything other than peace and love only to turn around the following Tuesday in his Race Speech and say “yes” he’d heard incendiary language from the pulpit of Wright. That was a test to see how much the media would let him get away with – and it’s been anything goes ever since.
Posted by: HoosierSue | July 1, 2008, 11:32 am 11:32 am
It’s called being human, situations and ideas change constantly.I can understand why both candidates shift Obama(middle) McCain(left)it is called politics or pandering. As long as they keep their core values intacted. They have to appeal to more than just their base,after all it takes all kinds of people to make a world!!! all kinds of votes to win an election !!!
Posted by: DEMOCRAT FOR THE WHITE HOUSE | July 1, 2008, 11:47 am 11:47 am
well, if the complicated social and economic issues tax cuts, issue of immigrations and energy dependence are what we can cite McCain for grappling with , I’d say that’s goes along with the job description of Leadership… less troubling than the internal struggles of Is my Pastor my Spiritual Adviser or Do I disown him? Is the National Anthem worth our remembrance or is it too violent? Was BHO Sr an inspiration or an absentee father? Is the American flag lapel pin a patriotic gesture or something I reject? Is my grandmother a loving woman or racist old lady? Do I reject Louis Farrakhan or should I march in his rally?
Shouldn’t a president deal with his own Fundamental issues with before attempting to deal with the nation’s?
Posted by: IndyDem | July 1, 2008, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm
McCain and Obama are both flip-floppers who will rool over and do whatever the bankers and their moneyed interests tell them to do. They are not populists they are patronizers. Obama NEVER gives out specifics to any of his policy positions and McCain is IGNORANT on every issue he claims to be an expert on and admittedly CLUELESS on those he does not. (Like oh, WAR and climate change to name a few) McCain wants to occupy Iraq and Iran while Obama wants to invade Pakistan and Afghanistan, WHERE IS THE CHANGE??? It’s twedle-dee VS. Tweddle-DUM!!! Nothing changes, the policies will stay the SAME!
Posted by: pity | July 1, 2008, 12:12 pm 12:12 pm
McCain has a real problem this year. He is deeply unpopular with the right wing. So, on issue after issue he is giving up his “maverick” stance and adopting the party line. You could call it flip flopping. You could call it pandering. But one thing is clear, it’s pretty desperate. If McCain doesn’t walk away from just about every stand he has made over the last decade then he has no chance of being elected by a majority of Republicans, let alone a majority of Americans. Thus we see McCain endorsing the use of torture, calling for tax cuts for the rich without any budget cuts to compensate for them, embracing projects paid for by unrestricted earmarks, violating the campaign finance law, and campaigning against bills the he himself introduced in the Senate less than a year ago.
Posted by: fletc3her | July 1, 2008, 12:33 pm 12:33 pm
OBAMA – AXELROD – PLOUFFE
THE THREE STOOGES ARE PORFORMING
COME AND SEE THE SHOW
BEST COMEDY OF THE YEAR
Posted by: Mary | July 1, 2008, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm
hoosier sue
how can anyone think mccain is fit to be president
John McCain misspoke and confused his African countries while talking to reporters on the Straight Talk Express today. This time, he was bailed out not by Joe Lieberman, but by his close aide Mark Salter. “How can we bring pressure on the government of Somalia?” McCain asked, which prompted Mark Salter to correct him. “Sudan,” Salter said. “Sudan,” McCain repeated. “There’s a realpolitik side of my view of the conduct of American foreign policy.”
not only has he flip flopped on every major issue he has pretty much ever stood for, he seems to not understand anything about the world outside of the US
He also took credit for the GI bill he opposed yesterday… and bush gave him credit for it
how pathetic is that, you oppose soemthing and when you realize people think you suck because you opposed it, you decide that when it passes youll just say you were all for it… there by absolving yourself
thanks for being a dirty flip flop liar mccain
who would vote for this guy?
Posted by: bhrandon | July 1, 2008, 12:53 pm 12:53 pm
Mary
what are you talking about?
Posted by: bhrandon | July 1, 2008, 12:53 pm 12:53 pm
IndyDem :
It’s called
Something smells fishy here in Obamaville
Lies lies and more lies, plus taking credit for things Obama had no hand in is the Chicago way….when you have Political Godfather like Obama did in Emil Jones….
Posted by: carpenter.nyc | July 1, 2008, 1:04 pm 1:04 pm
Then there’s the odd manner in which the McCain campaign pushed back at Clark — with a conference call that included one of the original Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Bud Day.
One of the “original Swift Boat Veterans for Truth”? Simply wrong.
Colonel Day and his fellow POWs did not join with the Swiftvets until some 4 months after the Swiftvets commenced their campaign. Until that time the POWs were operating under a loose coalition headed by Carlton Sherwood, producer of the documentary “Stolen Honor”…which Kerry tried desperately to suppress…and, to a significant extent, succeeded.
The FACT is that, at the time of McCain’s “dishonest and dishonorable” comment, Colonel Day and the POWs had NO formal association with the Swiftvet initiative and that coalition was not formed until September, 2004.
Please get your facts straight.
Posted by: Bingo | July 1, 2008, 1:09 pm 1:09 pm
Does Obama really think a speech is enough to convince voters to trust his patriotism?
At least those of us who are skeptical because of Obama’s church, pastors, mentors, and friends. They all share a common idea–America is evil.
And Obama seemed to be quite comfortable around these people for most of his adult life.
McCain 08
Posted by: riley | July 1, 2008, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm
They all share a common idea–America is evil.
**********
And you think it isn’t? That is the real scary thing here.
Posted by: SERIOUSLY! | July 1, 2008, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm
you know the whole thing with obama hes muslim the reverend wright the church he attendend is getting really old dont you people have anything new well iguess yor gonna have to try because this same old about obama is not working he still leading mccain in the polls please people move on to something new the primaries are over just go to john mccain and hillary smear web sites for obama and see if there is anything new were getting bored with the same old!!!
Posted by: angie | July 1, 2008, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm
it hink mccain has to stop with the pandering and really start focusing on what kind of president hes gonna be alot of people are not sure hes flipped flop so much no one knows where he stands i dont even think he knows
Posted by: ANGIE | July 1, 2008, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm
How can so many people be so misinformed about so narrow a topic?
Posted by: Randy in Dallas | July 1, 2008, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm
None of this makes any difference. Either you want to re-elect another George Bush type to a third term or you want a change. I wish everyone would just move on and that ABC would report some real news. Two politicians bickering back and forth and “flip-flopping” on the issues (or lack thereof) isn’t news.
Posted by: reader110 | July 1, 2008, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm
You’re right. None of this matters. If you want to elect a Carter type, then elect Obama. It’ll be a miserable 4 years (with some terrorism thrown in because he’s a lightweight like Carter) and then people will come to their senses.
The only thing Obama had going for him since he has no experience, is his being “different”….
Well we found out about Rezko, his flip flop on public financing….all this made him the same old, same old.
Nothing “different” about Obama. So there’s no reason to vote for him.
President McCain – get good and use to it.
Posted by: Jo | July 1, 2008, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm
Since Obama has no experience he’s telling us to vote for him because he’s about “change”..
Now we find out he’s the same as all the rest of the politicians.
So I’ll take the politician who’s the “same” AND has lots of senatorial experience and a heroic military record.
It’s not even a tough decision.
McCain ’08
Posted by: Jo | July 1, 2008, 2:22 pm 2:22 pm
Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth…HE IS A “TYPICAL POLITICIAN” as his old uncle Rev. Jeremiah Wright said.
As the saying goes..”There is no worse blind then one who DOES NOT WANT TO SEE!”
PUMA!
Posted by: JustWords | July 1, 2008, 2:25 pm 2:25 pm
*Two politicians bickering back and forth and “flip-flopping” on the issues (or lack thereof) isn’t news.*
Posted by: reader110 | Jul 1, 2008 1:52:39 PM
WOW! If that doesn’t bother you then what does?!
Isn’t Oblahma supposed to be about “change”?? Didn’t he promise to rid us of “politics as usual”??? LOL!
Obama (inexperienced) = Bush 3rd Term (inexperience)
PUMA!
Posted by: JustWords | July 1, 2008, 2:32 pm 2:32 pm
Rick,
I see you mentioned shifts in a few of Obama’s positions, but did not mention the dozens of flips and flops McCain has done over his career on grassroots lobbying legislation, whether Pat Robertson is an agent of intolerance, the Bush tax cuts, embryonic stem cell research federal funding, background checks at gun shows, gay marriage, Roe vs. Wade, the RNC’s abortion platform, illegal immigration, ethanol (not subsidies) as an alternate energy source, negotiating with rogue nations like Cuba and North Korea, offshore drilling, MLK’s holiday, South African divestment, South Carolina confederate flag, policy towards Pakistan, torture, Social Security private accounts, No Child Left Behind, when we’re going to leave Iraq, and Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program.
I think it’s time for the media to actually challenge McCain and expose his lack of “straight talk”.
Posted by: Mike | July 1, 2008, 3:30 pm 3:30 pm
Experience doesn’t matter. Not when you are a desperate and decrepit old man who can’t get your facts straight. That’s not change we can believe in, that’s change for the sake of you keep CHANGING your mind on everything because you can’t remember the last time you even pumped your own gas.
OMG?! Obama is a “politician”? See, this whole time I thought he was Jesus…oh how foolish I have been. My eyes have been opened. If Obama wins, you know, since he’s an inexperienced politician, the terrorists win, and America loses, because no one wants health care, tax cuts for 90% of the population, and painful but necessary alternative energy plans.
I know what I want…a bankrupt America from spending the next hundred years fighting a quagmire in Iraq, and OIL! GIVE ME THAT SWEET SWEET OFFSHORE OIL! Then let’s raid ANWAR! Has anyone thought to check Abraham Lincoln’s head on Mount Rushmore for oil? We could be solving this energy crisis people!
The Straight Talk Express has derailed…but if Obama wins,obviously so will America.
Vote McCain…morons…
Posted by: nativeson | July 2, 2008, 9:35 am 9:35 am