The Note: Kennedy Inspires, but Clinton Drama Continues

Paul Begala may have hit it on the head of the nail this morning, talking about Hillary Clinton on the Imus show.
If Obama doesn’t win, she’s done in the party, and according to Begala (a Clinton supporter and close friend) she knows it.
That comment followed a friendly argument in which Imus accused Clinton of not wanting Obama to win. Begala responded that she did, because the issues were more important to her than personal ambitions. But, Begala added, even if Imus doesn’t believe that, consider this from the perspective of Clinton self interest. If Obama loses, she gets at least part of the blame.
Begala says Clinton fully recognizes this, and because of both her national interest and self interest will do everything she can to get Obama elected.

Barack seems to have had a Senior (or Drug Addict) moment last night when he couldn’t remember what city he was in. THought he was in St Louis.

Latest polls show that 30% of Hillary supporters are voting for McCain. As CNN stated last night, if even 5% vote for McCain in November, McCain will win the Presidency. The way I see it, with this division in the Democratic party, which will not be unified by November, its a win-win situation for the Republicans and John McCain.

now we have a tie with the GOP candidate and the best Dem candidate for President for decades being forced to support someone she knows is not qualified for the job!
Posted by: Francisco Cardenas | Aug 26, 2008 11:02:47 AM
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, ONE OF THE BEST POSTS I HAVE SEEN. HILLARY WAS THE BEST CANDIDATE, HOWEVER, THE DNC TOTALLY MADE A MISTAKE. OBAMA KNOWS IT, BUT HE’S CAUGHT IN THE MIX. I AGREE, ITS OBAMA’S PLACE TO UNITE THE PARTY, NOT HILLARY’S. IF OBAMA CAN’T UNITE THE PARTY, THEN HE DOESN’T DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENT! ENOUGH OF THE HILLARY BASHING, ESPECIALLY BY OBAMABOTS!!!

David from Texas
the problem is…the countries future lies in the balance… think about if we stay on this trajectory for 4 more years.
Where will this country be?
Imagine that…4 more years of this same structure and belief system …
the same decision makers (because Bush’s team McCain has already hired )
where do you think we will be.
whether it is Obama or Clinton we would be here…half the party would have lost…
now we have a choice…
4 more years on this downward direction…
or fulfilling the need of our anger.

David from Texas: “Latest polls show that 30% of Hillary supporters are voting for McCain. As CNN stated last night, if even 5% vote for McCain in November, McCain will win the Presidency.”
Not sure what CNN said, but that doesn’t sound true.
If right now 30 percent of Clinton supporters are planning to vote for McCain, then that’s reflected in current polling. In other words, if it stays at 30 percent, Obama still wins a close election.
If it drops to five percent (a 25 percent difference of 18 million, or 4.5 million) then that’s another few points out of a national percentage in Obama’s favor.

JA: “I don’t think anyone really believes that Obama was a better candidate than Clinton in retrospect.”
Not that it really matters, but I suspect you are incorrect there. I for one supported Obama in the primaries and still think he’s a better candidate.

Why has the country elected only two Democrats as President in the last 40 years? It’s very simple. The majority of the country is middle of the road, maybe a little bit to the right. The Democrats keep nominating very liberal candidates, too liberal for many Democrats. That’s why they lose. Democrats like me vote as Democrats for the Senate, Governor, etc. and we wind up voting Republican for President. Evan Bayh, Indiana, has said that he didn’t run for President because he’s too much of a centrist, and the activists in the Party always work to elect a liberal. That’s too bad, because as boring as he is, he would make a good president. And there’s no doubt in my mind that he’d be elected. Ordinary Democrats are hungry for a Democrat in the White House, and a Democratic Congress. That isn’t going to happen this time. I simply don’t understand why the ultra liberal wing of the Democratic Party doesn’t understand this. Centrist Democrats have a history of deserting the Party in favor of Republican candidates. How many times do we have to do it before the Democratic Party gets the message? RUN A CENTRIST DEMOCRAT INSTEAD OF A LEFT-WING SOCIALIST WANNABE, AND MIDDLE OF THE ROAD DEMOCRATS WILL SUPPORT THE PARTY

Paul is right david is wrong…
5% of Hillary voters voting for obama would be better than Bill Clinton did in 92 …Gore did in 2000 and Kerry did in 2004
so…considering Keery and Gore tied (I know Gore won)
your numbers are false.
also thiose 30% are already factored into the polls we have been seeing …they have to be duh.
so there is a lot better chance that Hillary voters the further they get away from the primaries the more obvious it is how different mccain is from Hillary and how similar Obama is.
so please use logic…not false spin.

Jennifer,
Some people put their country before party. “True Democrat” – nonsense. You want people to blindly follow Obama into disaster?
Unlike you, some people THINK before making a decision, don’t let others tell them what to do.

I CANNOT AND I WILL NOT FOR OBAMA…
…AND NOBODY WILL CHANGE MY MIND…
DNC MUST BE PUNISHED……….
I’M AN EX-DEMOCRAT VOTING FOR McCAIN…

For every 1 Hillary supporter who admits they will vote for McCain – there are 3 more who won’t admit it, but are going to do it.
President McCain in a landslide! Get use to it!

Ja
the only reason any one who is not running would be ahead of McCain
is becasue they are not running duh.
the repubs are, in fact and it is a fact, not spin, even pumping up Clinton right now to hurt Obama
so please agin logic and facts…not bologne.
in a change election the flesh and blood candidate from the change party that is in the focus…is always going to run slightly less than the generic party.
That’s just common sense
and obama is the only one who could challenge Mccain because of his lack of history on the non partisan thing.
and no one could challenge mccain and win on an election that was on expereince outside Biden.
facts and logic…logic and facts.
otherwise you have a choice…
fantasy that will keep us on this road …and where will we be in 4 years on that road?
or logic and facts and you don’t vote for the guy who has hired the same team of people that put us here.

I am a Hilary supporter…I will vote for either McCain or none of the above. Obama may win the presidency, but he will not have my vote. This is too bad because I love the Democratic party but Obama and his supporter is too noisy and egotistical…Go Democrat!

Voting for McCain only disrespect everything Hillary is about and worked so hard for. It also disrespects your children and their future.

Paula,
Drama Queen party of 1 – your table is now available.
Sheeesh.

Republicans that vote for Obama are not true republicans.
You can’t go from being a republican to voting for the most liberal senator on record. You just can’t.

marie: “What is wrong with the Clinton supporters? Why can’t they let go? I do not get it all.”
Simple, they know Clinton was cheated out of the nomination by the media and by Obama not being vetted re Wright until after he won the first nine primaries. After that it was nip-and-tuck and she almost won anyway.

Hillary supporters don’t understand… It is not about Hillary or Obama or even McCain… It is about their policies, their plans to get us out of this mess and make a stronger country again.
Stop being like a child…grow up. You know for a fact that McCain (even for 4 years) will take this country under. He has more than proven that to us this past 8 years. 95% he voted side by side Bush… what makes you think for a second because he is running to be president that he changed and will change. People please, think about what you are saying and doing, do not vote McCain in office.

Jo not true. I do know several republicans that will vote for Obama including my sister. They hate both McCain and Obama but are trying to teach the GOP a lesson….listen to the conservatives. So I guess it works both ways. Both parties will cross lines.

I don’t care if Hillary came to my door personally and begged me to vote for Obama. I will never, ever vote for him.
Obama represents all that is bad in the democratic party today. It has been hijacked by the extreme left wing and left us centrists scrambling for cover.
McCain represents the center this election. I will be voting for him.

Hillary 2012…so you do not care about a woman’s right to chose? Do you care is r v w gets overturned?

Any real Democrat knows they are voting for bearers of Democratic issues, not personalities.
Hillary, Obama… they are the same…. in essense.
That is the straight truth. We didn’t lose a daughter…we gained a son!
You faux posters/Republican shills think you can drive a wedge in with your “Dem party division” BS are just hopeful! Yes it will be a landslide… And no, not for McSame…
Any Dem who votes for McCain shoots themselves and other Dems in the foot… Really cry baby childish….
True Dems are smarter than that…
Sorry… no division to exploit here… move along…

This convention is Hillary’s dream come true. Tuesday Hillary will sound as if she is supporting Obama, but internally she will be thinking about running against the republicans in 4 years. Bill will give a less enthusiastic speech tomorrow, thereby drowning the Obama campaign into more chaos. Already Bill managed to bring the race card against Obama, and Hillary has brought the gender card.

HILLARY THE WOMAN OF STEEL IS NOT ONLY BE DISREPECTED BUT WOMAN AS A GROUP ARE BEING DISREPECTED..NO WAY THIS THIS CONVENTION IN DENVER SHOULD LEAVE DENVER HAVING CHOOSE OBAMA OVER HILLARY CLINTON.. WHAT A CLASS ACT FOR HILLARY TO PUT UP WITH AND KEEP ON KEEPING ON FOR AMERICANS. THIS GUY OBAMA IS A WEAK CANDIDATE AND HILLARY IS THE STRONG LEADER..THIS CONVENTION WILL TRY AND HIDE OBAMAS WEAKNESS WITH 75 THOUSAND PEOPLE SCREAMING IN A FOOTBALL STADIUM..THIS ALL SMOKE AND MIRROS. MADISON AVENUE WITH HOLYWOOD KICKED IN. JUST TERRIBLE. SINCERELY, JIMMIE W BECK

Pakistan, Russia, Iran, radicals, do you want to leave this with an on the job training president? Obama’s ego may not even listen to Biden! Economy is the #1 worry, unless we get hit again! National security, #1.

Please don’t vote for McCain just to punish the DNC. You’ll also be voting against women’s reproductive rights. Vote for the person who is most likely to support the policies you agree with. Don’t vote for the person who is 100% behind Bush. Please. The future of the country depends on it. Please put aside your personal feelings and vote with your minds.

People who are concerned about certain policies (Iraq war, women’s issues, the economy, Veterans, energy, education, foreign diplomacy, etc.) will vote for Obama…
People who are angry that Clinton did not get the nomination two and a half months ago will vote for McCain..
They claim country before party, but with so many crucial issues facing this election, it’s obviously the opposite. They’d rather have four more years of George Bush’s policies than fixing our economy or getting out of Iraq..
McCain=Bush
PUMA=Faux Democrat/Undercover Republican

Im a Hillary supporter voting for McCain in November. the DNC has pushed opromise on us and gave the nomination to him. DNC ignored FL’s delegates and now they want my support? My voting rights as in individual come first, party affiliation second. McCain 08! teach the dems what a democracy is and count peoples votes!

Just spent a bit of time reading many of these comments. I was disgusted by the hateful remarks about Obama & his beautiful, articulate wife.
I can’t help but wonder if these people weren’t late for their local KKK chapter meetings after posting their comments.

Mark. It is Florida’s fault that their votes were not counted. They went against the rules. Let it go. You must love George Bush because that is basically who you are voting for when you vote for Mccain.

I am a Hillary supporter and won’t vote for Obama because of his lack of experience. He is not like JFK (even tho JFK’s brother and daughter might think so) because JFK had the life experience of leading in war and being responsible for other’s lives. Obama doesn’t and I hate to say it at this point in time of history I would prefer someone with that experience. McCain is not my ideal candidate either, so I may just not even vote for the first time in my life! Hilary seemed to me to have the best grasp of world problems and that is one of the reasons I supported her.

Hillary2012…….counseling will help you a great deal with you denial issues. I just can not beleive you as a woman would want someone as a president who is not pro-choice.

Casey: Oh my Gosh! You want an ego that will not listen to people or anyone.. Have you not vented McCain yet?? What have you people been listening to and watching where you think this McCain guy is the answer to our problems… Oh my Gosh… McCain created the problems you are now crying about. He now wants you to believe he is going to rescue from them… McCains race is McCain vs. McCain. Get smart people.

“If Hillary is not on the ticket, I’m voting for McCain.” I’m so sick of reading this!! Then vote for McCain and all he stands for…bye! The war…thousand of innocent military men and women DEAD!!! For what, weapons that were never found! So support Bush’s fabricated war just because your poor little Hillary is not on the ticket. Stop crying and put on your McCain pin. Wear it with great pride. Then wait to see the results of your crying because Hillary didn’t convince the right people that she’s the better candidate.

There are some fairly pathetic Hillary supporters out there, and there willing to even support John McCain… who has vowed to overturn Rowe vs Wade, wants to start another war with Iran, doesn’t think the middle class and below needs tax relief, wants to authorize offshore drilling even though all oil (and it won’t be that much) goes into the world oil supply (it’s only ours if we outpay everyone else), and he’s the biggest flip-flopper in DC. He even flip-flopped on his commitment to his first wife! Cheated on her for 6 years!!! Now he plays the POW card at every chance, even saying he “Knows how to win wars” when he’s never won one.
Get over Hillary folks. Remember, when you are criticizing Obama for lack of experience, he has actually been in elected office LONGER than Hillary.
Personally, I think Hillary has her sights set on the Supreme Court as her next job. A lifetime appointment as a SCJ would probably suit her just fine.

Billy/Shocked….THIS IS A DE-MOC-RA-CY..LIVE WITH IT. PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR WHOM THEY WANT AND DO NOT CARE HOW P.O.ed YOU GET..AS YOUR OPINION IS JUST THAT, ONE OF MANY MANY MANY THAT WILL BE QUICKLY FORGOTTEN…

No Obama. No birth certificate – too many unknowns. When Michelle Obama mentioned Hillary in her speech lastnight that was so fake. YUCK.
And why did Biden get VP?? Why did Biden’s son put Larry Sinclair in jail after his Press Conference in DC. They are all a bunch of thugs. I will cross party lines and vote for McCain.

Pam… so you have not been paying attention. You are so upset about Hillary you can’t see past it. Just admit it and stay home. Stop trying to make this into something it is not. Obama has more than once proven he is for the middle class and below people of the US. Hillary only started proving it when she was running for president.

There are but a scarce handful of politicians I actually like, the kind of people that get into politics are generally not nice people. I certainly don’t admire any of them, some support positions that are good for my country and some don’t, and that dictates my voting choices. Most of all, I can’t image being idolizing one so much that if they lost, I’d vote out of spite for someone who doesn’t understand economics, jokes about bombing Iran, and has serious anger management problems… for president.
Being a citizen in a democracy is a responsibility. Name calling and whining about not getting your way is pathetic and childish. Please grow up.

Yea this Hillary Drama plays real well for Hillary. Let us pout our way to the Presidency.
You people have to get real.

Wow talk about cry babies. Give us what we want or we will try to ruin it for everyone! Yay for a bunch of adults acting like children. Are you sure you are not all Republicans anyway, it sure seems like it.

I used to be a huge Hillary supporter too, back in the day!
I still believe that most of the people who hated her at that time did so because of entrenched sexism, but I think the “bitch” rumors started with her dismissive attitude towards how to interact with others. She did not allow dissent in her camp, but this is exactly one of the things that is very wrong with the current administration!
She took a very “you’re either with me or you’re against me” attitude towards the entire staff, and left no room for discussion. Too close to Bush/Rove/Cheney attitude for me.

Am I the only Hillary supporter who sees that if we punish the DNC by voting for McCain, we will also be punishing Hillary. Many of my friends believe that if we support McCain, we can all stand the pain for four years while the DNC learns a valuable lesson and backs Hillary in 2012. The truth is that the DNC will learn nothing and instead hold Hillary responsible. In that case we wont see Hillary in 2012 or 2016, or ever again. She may not even hold onto her Senate seat. Like it or not, if McCain wins, Hillary loses.

wow…and wowwwwww…I am an independent voter, and for sure as I am an American, i am not voting for a democrat candidate, not now..you guys are so blind, so inmature, so childish…

Hillary supporters – please don’t vote for McCain! Whether or not we like Obama or the DNC – would we genuinely rather have 4 more years of the Bush admin’s failed economic & foreign policy?
Hillary knows what’s right. She may not love Obama, but she knows America needs a Democratic administration – and she’ll have much more power to influence it from the senate than she ever would have as a VP. Don’t give the election – and America to McCain; ask yourself what would Hillary do – and she sure won’t be voting republican. That’s b/c for her AMERICA comes first

You Hilary supporters are all really a bunch of confused idiots. If you were true Hilary supporters and true Democrats, you would vote for the Democratic candidate that was nominated and not betray the country by voting for McCain simply because you are sore losers and want “revenge” for Hilary. What a selfish and ignorant way to vote! The most qualified candidate to lead our country in the right direction is Obama, not McCain!

It is not about true Democrat or true Republican. I am just refusing to give my vote for the media. I think and believe that Obama is just an empty shell. He stole speeches, flip flaps, has no plan for change at all. I strongly believe Clinton was a strong candidate with better plan. I don’t like the way she has been treated by DNC and the media. I am proud black American who came to this country as an immigrant and worked my way up. Up until now I was a Democrat; in my good conscious I don’t plan to give my earned vote for Obabma just because his Democrat, black, and he comes from the same country that I came from.

I’ve been voting straight Republican all my life. If it was a perfect world, I’d see Ron Paul as the Republican nominee… but anyways… true conservatives get us out of wars where as true liberals tend to get us into wars… Mccain is no true conservative and Obama is no true liberal when you factor in something as important as the Iraq war… anti-war vote going to Obama… there are other candidates that are closer to Ron Paul’s platform, but I believe voting for Obama will be a step closer to ending the war in Iraq, which I think is priority #1 to fixing our economy. Good luck to all other Ron Paul supporters, sorry I gotta vote for Obama :O

The fact that posters on this site are still questioning Obama’s brith certificate (which they’ve shown on CNN a gazillion times) is proof that these hardcare Clinton supporters aren’t concerened about real issues..
As far as hating the DNC over the Florida and Michigan votes, both of those states violated the rules by moving their primary states up too early. It had nothing to do about favoring Obama. All of the candiates agreed to not campaign in Michigan and Florida.
The Rules and Bylaws Committee came to a compromise and split the votes. So to claim that Obama cheated somehow, is just a flat out lie!!

“Obama lied to the far left to get the nomination. Now he is lieing to the center to try and get us back from McCain.”
And now he picks Biden the antithesis of change. The joke is on the bots.

Only in John Mclame’s and his stooges minds. People have not forgotten how McShame and the Repukes villified the Clintons for years. ABC and other MSM should get back to unbiased reporting and not reporting to the whims of the Owners and editors prejudiced by all that is not in conformance with their constrained views. Change will come, the change that will let all Americans live out their potential. United We Stand.
Obama 08

Mack: “And now he picks Biden”
Fine. It will cost him the election.

As an independent I’m glad to see that finally people have started to notice that Emperor Obama has no clothes on! The media keeps having that far away look in their eyes for Obammania and chose to see what they wanted to see and now it’s gone on too long and the words out. Now everyone is beginning to understand that Obama is a presidential wanna be with a mirage for an oasis of hope.

Some people are claiming to be Democrats who will vote McCain because they don’t like Obama. Some people are claiming to be Republicans who support Obama because of his “new politics” or whatever. The problem is: Democrats HAVE A HISTORY of crossing party lines to help vote in Republican presidents. Republicans occassionally cross over to vote Democratic, but not in large numbers. I do believe that most of the people claiming to be Democrats for McCain are real, because I’m one of them, and most of my Democratic family is voting for McCain. I laugh when someone posts that he’s a Republican supporting Obama. I’ve never known a Republican who would vote for someone who promises to raise taxes on capital gains, stock dividends, and inheritance taxes. It simply isn’t believable to me. Every time I hear the “I’m a Republican and I support Obama line,” I think one thing: PAID OBAMA BLOGGER.

I’ve not voted before. But this election, I gladly made the effort to register. I will do everything I can to keep Obama out of the presidency. I cannot handle a smooth talking person that will not give an answer. All he does is dodge. You can’t be “yes”, and “no”, on all subjects. Does he want to be a LEADER or a PLEASER? Hillary would’ve been GREAT. How it came to this……????

All of you people who keep holding onto the “Bush got us into war under false pretenses, lies, etc.” line of thinking should wise up. All the intelligence at the time, from foreign countries even, pointed to the Pres. of Irag having WMDs. We couldn’t verify that he did not because of many, many years of the cat and mouse game, which Pres. Clinton played well, I might add. So, after 9/11, should we have assumed that Saddam had good intentions with his deceit, that WMDs, etc. would not fall into the wrong hands? The Dems would have you believe that, sure, containment would have worked, no problem… The world as we knew it changed on 9/11. We woke up to the threats we face in a shocking, terrible way. I’m from the NY area and I will never forget it. Republican, Democrat, whatever…if you don’t understand that national security is a top issue in this day and age, and you want to go back to the Clinton go-go ’90s, I’m afraid I have news for you. It isn’t going to happen. Again, I am a Republican, but I’m not blindly following Republicans. I think Bush screwed up in many ways, but the man didn’t start a war because there was no threat or he made it up. He did the best he could with the intelligence we ALL had at the time. I don’t like the Iraq war any better than you Obama/Hillary lovers. War is awful, just ask my cousin who served two tours in Iraq with the Marines. However, he and I believe that the intentions we’ve had in Iraq are noble ones. Sorry for the long post, but all of the fools that keep pining away about the good old days, before Bush, give me a break. It’s a new world and we need leaders tough on defense. Obama is not tough on defense. He can’t even muster a response to what has happened in Georgia. How would he handle an attack on US soil?

It is obvious to me that most of the posts here are written by Republicans with the intent of engendering fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD)in hopes of causing disunity among Democrats. Reading these posts and taking it seriously would be a mistake. The so-called rift in the Dem Party is a media myth. Nobody wants the continued path of the last 8 years. Republicans don’t seem to be able to address issues so they attack persons, engage in name calling, oft repeated false claims, and of course FUD.

I am INCREDIBLY disappointed in this convention and the blatant disregard for Hillary and her supporters! As one delegate who moved on to the Convention told us at caucuses, he ABSOLUTELY would NOT change his vote. Yet, he has entered the convention as an “undecided!!!” I agree with many here. In Washington state, a 333 vote difference comparatively given the votesa cast nationally would have triggered an AUTOMATIC RECOUNT!!! 333 is not many votes!!! Hillary deserves better as the woman who has not only cracked the glass ceiling, but can break it!!! WHY ARE WE HAVING A FULL ON CONVENTION AND CHOOSING OUR CANDIDATE??? Would someone please answer that question???
Given the slight difference, there is room to CHOOSE!!! The one thing that all the Obama supporters seem to ignore, or aren’t aware of period, is the fact that we are losing our RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!! It does not state in the Constitution that a party must ACCEPT the “presumptive” nominee . . . we are SUPPOSED to be voting, persuading, and then voting again until such time as ONE CANDIDATE received the 2025 votes necessary!!!
Is no one paying attention that Obama is running neck and neck with McCain? I don’t support the statements about voting for McCain by Hillary’s supporters and past delegates. Remember People . . . WE HAVE THE RIGHT AND POWER TO WRITE IN A CANDIDATES NAME ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT!!! A vote for McCain is not the way Hillary would want us to fight on! She would rather see us write Her name in; that is my viewpoint at any rate. And that is what I will do!!! I did not vote for Obama; and he’s not my Candidate until such time as we hold a true convention!!!
Our Founding Fathers have to be spinning in their graves over this falsely held convention!!! Why do we have two sets of delegates? Why is her name going to be on the roll call if it means absolutely NOTHING? It is NOT symbolism; and while I recognize the historicity of Obama’s bid, the truth is that we have just undergone 8 years of someone with NO EXPERIENCE!!! At least with Hillary we KNOW that she KNOWS how to take on the multiple situations we are facing as a Nation in the global world today.
Given all the wars (ours included) we are in deep, deep, trouble. And what we DON’T need is a President who is lacking in the experience necessary to take this issues on. Hillary has been doing so her ENTIRE life. Moreover, any Candidate who can say that climate change is “possibly” a threat to us is someone I don’t want in “charge” of our policies and country.
I also am extremely disappointed in the arrogance and hubris of Obama to not reach out to Hillary’s supporters!!! As another has stated (a delegate at convention) in this morning’s Post Intelligencer, it is NOT Hillary’s job to “gracefully” give Obama her delgates!!! It’s OBAMA’s job to appeal to us . . . not patronize us!!!
Aaarrrggghhh . . . democracy is NOT being practiced; it’s all for show. And we wonder why the world is so antagonistic towards us? It is not merely W-ya who has brought this upon us. It is everyone who thinks that “pretending” to vote and practice democracy is so hypocritical if our convention is nothing but show and “crowning”!!!

And it came to pass that the national anthem was played and the ONE placed his hands over the wrong place. Some wanted to stone him, but his followers rose up and said “ye who have not fondled yourself, cast the first stone”. Thus he was spared and he traveled the land, speaking to the crowds while often raising his head heavenward, as tho getting cues. And yea tho he walketh in the shadow of Wright, his charisma is great, and he plodeth on to achieve stardom. So to speak.

A lesson in logic:
1. You support Hillary Clinton, and believe her character is formidable enough for her to be president.
2. Such a character would not weakly support someone else out of political expediency–you cannot claim 1 AND 2.
3. Therefore you should, if you have fidelity to your own view, support the Candidate that she does. You would not doubt her word if you truly believe in her integrity.
4. If you do not, you are a hypocrite, a Republican liar or a racist hiding behind B.S.

Some people are claiming to be Democrats who will vote McCain because they don’t like Obama. Some people are claiming to be Republicans who support Obama because of his “new politics” or whatever. The problem is: Democrats HAVE A HISTORY of crossing party lines to help vote in Republican presidents. Republicans occassionally cross over to vote Democratic, but not in large numbers. I do believe that most of the people claiming to be Democrats for McCain are real, because I’m one of them, and most of my Democratic family is voting for McCain. I laugh when someone posts that he’s a Republican supporting Obama. I’ve never known a Republican who would vote for someone who promises to raise taxes on capital gains, stock dividends, and inheritance taxes. It simply isn’t believable to me. Every time I hear the “I’m a Republican and I support Obama line,” I think one thing: PAID OBAMA BLOGGER.

I’m sick of this, seriously. Roe v Wade cannot be overturned? Are you on something it sure can, the next SCJ to retire is on the “liberal” wing, this means that if McCain is president he’ll nominate a “conservative” judge thus making the court lean that way. Then all it takes is one of those “conservative” states to push a anti-abortion bill. Someone challenges and it goes to the supreme court where Roberts et al votes that the state has the right to make it illegal for whatever reason. It’s already happened with other cases. Remember the woman who sued because her company because she got payed less then the men but the court said she didn’t have a leg to stand on. Oh yeah add one more of them to the court and see how long Roe v Wade stays. Yes it’s a DNC scare tactic, but this time, it holds water…

“Change will come, the change that will let all Americans live out their potential. United We Stand.”
The Change Express got a flat tire when it picked up Joe Biden.

McCain is the next President of the United States. Bottom line he has the experience the job takes. If the DNC would have been supportive of Clinton, she would have been our next president. Unfortunately, the DNC and the media took it upon themselves to tell us who would be the best Democrat for the ticket. They (the DNC and media) chose an inexperienced person with no message, no direction, just rhetoric. Anyone remember one of the most liberal of the news media, Chris Matthews, stating ‘afterall what do really know about Obama’ after Hiliary started winning the primaries again. Thanks Mr. Matthews….where was that comment at the beginning of the primaries. Hiliary would have been a great president. To the DNC.. please replace your leadership.
To the Media…you are to report facts remember..way too much personal opinion.
The power and arrogance most of you exude needs to be checked at the door before you face the camera.

I have a friend that poses as a Hillary supporter on message boards saying she will vote McCain and not Obama!!!…First of all, it’s a guy and second, he’s a McCain supporter trying to drive a wedge between the party and get vots for McCain. The sad thing is Hillary supporters not only believe him (her) they go along with it…He just sits back and laughs — stating “SHEEEEP!”

“I have a friend that poses as a Hillary supporter on message boards saying she will vote McCain and not Obama!”
Maybe you should find some new friends.

When you see “Hillary for McCain” you are likely looking at a cloaked,racist Republican, member of a group
called PUMA: “People United Means Action”/”Party Unity My A-S-S”.
When PUMA first showed up online I was all for it, because I admire Hillary Clinton, always will. But the
organization morphed into a mob of rabid protesters and strangely, Obama-haters. The talk became ugly and
threats were harsh. As many of us know, the group had been infiltrated by cloaked-Republican racist posing
as Democrats, whose main intent was to destroy Barack Obama and the DNC, and steer those hapless Hillary
supporters to John McCain. THE GOOD NEWS: in the last three weeks or so, many accredited sources have
been showing up on the internet with excellent debunks of PUMA, backed up with tons of verifiable data. It
turns out this group is small and isolated and has few legitimate backers other than extreme-right
Republicans and a handful of true Hillary supporters with feminist issues who have been sucked into their
scheme.
Less than two weeks ago, the founders of the two main organizations, PUMA and Just Say No Deal, made
the mistake of signing on for an interview on Hardball. Their organizations got a thorough debunking on
national television. See the video of the Hardball interview here:
PUMA defanged:
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/08/15/puma-de-fanged-on-hardball/
news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/08/15/puma-de-fanged-on-hardball/

marie: that is not true… if he chose Hillary as VP most of his backers would not vote. Crazy as it might seem. So Hillary would lose just like Obama might.
Yes, the party was broken… Yes, I blame Hillary.
I was for her. But she lost, when you lose you step down, you do not act like a child throwing a fit, and try to cheat for a win.
If you want to bring MI and FL in to this. Hillary signed the same papers everyone else did. She wrote those people off just like everyone else did.
She ran a bad race and she lost… not because she is a woman, not because MI and FL could not vote..because she didn’t want to count anyones vote but a few states. Shame on her.

Obama has a base support of moat all blacks, die-hard democrats, and the young who think he’s hip and cool.
However — he cannot expand beyond that…….

I will place a friendly wager with anyone on this board, that Obama/Biden (JOBAMA) win the election…anyone? You have my email address! Let’s see how much faith you have in McSame

Great for all to express their democratic right to express themselves without thinking about the implications. Obama or Hillary is not whats at stake here – its the American dream. Many of the people here expressing their opinion don’t sound like democrats – they sound like republicans and make no apology for it – well hoorah for you all!!! wait until McCain is in his second year and see if you will be applauding. You have a chance here and now to make THE difference, NOW! Please please don’t make the same mistake again – the next time it may not be your children’s lives but yours – Bush has done an excellent job of putting America in the gutter. Would you let John McCain finish the job?
Support this DNC candidate to the Presidency and deal with those other issues later. SUPPORT YOUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOW!!!

Mack–you made a typo: you said “Case closed,” when obviously you meant to say “Mind closed.”

Bottome line, the drama queens in the press are too lazy to dig into a “real” story, so we endure their hand-wringing over a very few “slighted” Hillary supporters, who are actually white upper class women who won’t admit they don’t want to vote for a black male. And the rest so blinded by childish bitterness that they can’t let go of the fact that, in an election, someone wins and someone loses. And they are actually willing to put up with McCain’s policies on war, tax releif for the rich, a broken health care system and another right wing seat in the Supreme Court. Unbelievable. But, of course, in the blog world, most of those posing as “jilted Hillary” supporters are Republican plants doing what they do best-lie and mislead. They wouldn’t know a fair fight if it bit ‘em on the butt. And don’t forget our lazy and gullible press only too willing to play along with “the burning controversy”.

“Hillary supporters” no matter how you slice it…you either will have Obama or McCain in office…A black guy you hate or another George Bush – either way, it’s not Hillary, so quit acting like little babies and grow up!

If Obama wanted to unite the Democratic Party, Hillary would be his choice for Vice President.
She was treated unfairly through this entire ordeal. I say Go Hilary supporters.
He ahd his chance to include her and did’nt

Democrats have acquired the habit of bashing somebody. This time the enemy is within.

Mack over here obviously is very insightful… I can count the number of friends he lost in Iraq without talking to him = 0
Anyone who lost a loved 1 in Iraq will take a more serious consideration at these candidates and see who would be a better president. Unfortunately, Barack Obama is better then McCain. McCain will kill our economy by probably continuing the “war on terror” against Iran… which will be 100% worse then the Iraq war

American’s have been waking up to a President these 8yrs and have seen every morning is harder to wake up to…life takes you down a road of sadness knowing that credit cards bills are waiting for you…foreclosure notices are waiting for you…car payment is waiting for you…gas prices are waiting for you…and finally your kids future looks harder and sadder everyday….if these are all bushes day in office…what do you except from McCain…through America away to China and big business…kill the middle class…lets just have really poor people and really rich people and America will be great…false…Americans are smart enough to know they’re playing with their kids future and every father and mother will do everything in their power to protect the future of their kids…Vote for McCain but then you would have to look in your kids eyes and tell them sorry we can’t afford that and sorry your not going to college…sorry that I voted for McCain.

Rudi,
With all due respect, I am NOT electing a “party” to office!!! I am planning to elect a Candidate!!! In my view there is a big, big difference. And the Party has no right to make choices for me . . . which is precisely what’s been done here!!!
The fact is . . . the world is watching and laughing at the LACK OF PRACTICING democracy in the Country attempting to force it on the rest of the world (i.e., Iraq for instance!!!). It’s OBAMA and the PARTY that are losing this election for us, not Hillary or her supporters!!! Wake up man . . . we aren’t supposed to elect a party but a person!
I respect your position just as I do all others here. And those in the Democratic party are doing the same; particularly those who voted/caucuses for Hillary. As I said, 333 votes is a very NARROW margin. It did not give Obama the mandate . . . anymore than the stolen elections of Bush did!!!

Puma Defanged – by Hardball!!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!
PUMA! 9 million Voters and counting, coming to the Polls With You!

Obama was “selected” by the DNC…Hillary won the primaries but was strongarmed out of the nomination….GOP Dem
______________________________
That’s a flat out lie!! After Feb. 5 Obama kept his lead in pledged delegates all the way until the end. It was the superdelegates that helped him reach 2116. But Obama’s wins in the primaries and caucuses helped him achieve victory, not your shady conspiracy theories!!
Read a newspaper every once in awhile and learn a few facts before you spew lies!!

I am a registered Democrat. I voted for Hillary. I contributed to her campaign — not once, but several times.
I watched the liberal left portion of the media trash distort and spin the race to Hillary’s detriment with growing amazement, concern, and finally bitterness.
I looked at Obama’s record, and found it wanting. As senator, Obama had a duty to the American people who elected him. He was made chairman of his senate committee on Afghanistan (which he now touts as the new focus of his foreign policy). He held no meetings and blew it off to run for president. He has shirked his sworn duty to his country. Our boys and girls in Iraq did their duty. Obama turned his back on his. He is not fit to be president.
Reluctantly, I am voting for McCain. I would have preferred to vote for Hillary. Obama is a national disaster in the making. He will never get my vote!

Im a older bigger gal who has been a lifelong democrat. I cant vote for Obama because I am extremely petty and bitter about the way Obama treated hillary. I dont really like black people and I believe that white women should rule the world. Ive lived my whole life being oppressed for my sexual organs and the color of my skin. Hillary would have justified my bitterness and made me finally feel proud to be a white woman in America.
This is why Im voting for McCain. Because its better that we screw up the country than we let those color’d people have there day in the sun.
Im a bitter old unmarried white woman, and I approve this message.

Nevile; I agree totally. I am voting for McCain relunctantly too..
See my above post for comments similar to yours.

Wow.
As a McCain supporter and proud conservative (newsflash – not all females are democrats, and not all conservatives are religious hardliners), I’m heartened to read this thread. If anyone wants to know why McCain won in 2008, they can refer back to this specific thread to tell the story.
.

Those of you who were Hillary supporters need to understand that if she is any less than 100% behind Obama, then her future in the party is over. You can forget about her ever becoming President if Obama goes down to defeat because of PUMAS and other childish, petulant whack-jobs that claim to be Dems but plan to vote for McSame. Is that what you want to have happen to Hillary? I’d like to see some of you brave enough to answer that question.

CHANGE???
Obama would need to change drawers if McCain took him up in a fighter plane.

What is interesting is that Clinton supporters think they know what is right and correct.
They do not believe in democracy or election process. Clinton lost that nomination election. Obama won.
Now they say most Clinton supporters will choose McCain. SO be it. Stop your pathetic whimpering and go ahead and vote for McCain if you dare.
I know at least a few hundred of these closet Republicans who call themselves Democrats because they are ashamed of the last 8 year of Republican rule.
You are simply shocked that democrats dare to vote for a half black guy. You cannot accept the daring of democrats to choose a new guy and a nobody because these real democrats are sick and tired of the normal Washington politics.
Now the next stage is to find out which kind of people is more in America. Those who desire a change (even if not exactly the kind of changes wanted or needed) or those who desire the same old republican policies.
stop your whining and Let’s go to election and find out.

Marvin,
that is creative Clinton math. It ignores the many caucus states that Obama won! He would have won even with FL and MI, which clearly chose to ignore the rules.

All the Republicans posing as outraged Hillary supporters on this blog never fail to amuse me.

Most of you Clinton supporters who plan to vote for McCain are VERY politically naive. If you think she can waltz to the nomination in 2012 if McCain wins in 2008, you are whistling past the graveyard. If that happens, Hillary is done. As for me, I hope she is 100% behind Obama, he serves two terms, and she is a candidate in 2016.

Maureen,
Thank you for the kind words – apparently you do get it! And you will get more of it with that attitude at this time. The Party came to a concensus AFTER not BEFORE all the lobbying and voting. The Party did not let you down – the democratic process let you down and the results were not what you wanted. So, instead of accepting it – you find reasons to critize it and blame it on the outcome that was not favourable to you. Therefore my dearest Maureen my humble suggestion is to accept what is done and move on and support this candidate for a better american life under a democratic party and not a republican party. Please accept the fact that sometimes things don’t always go the way you wanted but the next best thing you can do is to look at the alternatives and make the right choice for a democratic candidate – Sorry my dear this is politics and party politics too.

Billw: I love your GOP posts here… that’s the substance we get with McCain’s experience and from his supporters like you :p Be warned… 2012 the true conservatives will leave the GOP because of idiots like you… a large portion have left already and for good reason… McCain and his neocons are ruining our country.

“if he couldn’t win a single debate against Ron Paul, how the hell is he going to stand a chance against Obama!”
Have you seen Obama debate? Not too good without a teleprompter.

Billw:
“Obama would need to change drawers if McCain took him up in a fighter plane.”
Same reaction from experienced military. If McCain took anyone up, I’d be terrified–as some were his first time around. He lost five aircraft.

RE NAME-CALLING
Ron Paul Supporter:
“true conservatives will leave the GOP because of idiots like you”
Typical name-calling response by someone who cannot dispute facts.

There won’t be a Clinton allowed to run for President ever again…Hillary and Bill sealed their families faith…and Chelsie is an elitist like her mom. I use to be part of the 18million Hillary supports from California but switched on her because I notice she was so negative and she would say anything to get elected…especially the drinking part with blue collar workers did it for me…next thing you know shes on sunset asking for money.

Henst: “He lost five aircraft”
Tough Dude, ain’t he?

“Tough Dude, ain’t he?”
Yes. He proved that in capitivity.
He wasn’t much of a pilot.

Just when you thought that it would be impossible to elect a Republican in ’08, Hillary found a way to hobble the Democratic Party and insure victory for McCain. You go, girl!

viv:
“McCain “lost” 5 planes
McCain “lost” the nominating process in 2000
McCain “lost” track of his many houses
McCain “lost” his first wife to his own infidelity
McCain “lost” his right to call himself a maverick since he became a 95%submissive admirer of G.W. Bush”
Background stats?
Obama’s background is muslim.
He studied the koran for 2 years.
His relatives are muslim.
He is friends with the anti-American Wright.
He is friends with the terrorist Supporter Ayres.

BillW, so what.

HILLARY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NOTHINGNESS THAT IS OBAMA! WHEN WILL EVERYONE GET IT? SHE HAS WORKED HARDER THAN ANY MAN HAS FOR ANYOTHER MAN IN A DEMOCRATIC ELECTION…I wish she could tell them to all f off.
HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN
SCREW UNITY…..BOZO SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT 20 YEARS AGO IN CHOOSING A MORE UNIFIED MIXED RACE CHURCH!

?:
“BillW, so what.”
The ‘so what’ is your decision. I just gave facts.

I read through all of these postings, and continue (for the most part) to be disappointed. *sigh* So, here are a few succinct points relative to my “choice” for President, and this Convention (just beginning), and the media, et cetera, in order to clarify that I am NOT whining about anything other than the lack of PRACTICING democracy!:
1. A “convention” is for the purpose (according to the Charter and the Constitution) of “choosing” a Candidate for that party. Plain, simple, period!;
2. I am NOT racist!!! Nor am I a GOP spy! Rather, I am a Cultural Anthropologist and Conflict Resolutionist. I welcome diversity–ETHNIC–and seek knowledge of other cultures and people for a living! So, that doesn’t “fly” if you will, relative to any of the remarks in that regard;
3. Those who OPPOSE a full convention which CHOOSES our candidate rather than accepting as ‘DONE’ a primary close enough to warrant a FULL convention and choosing of the Candidate. From my perspective, Sen. Obama nearly plageriazed Sen. Clinton’s “blueprint” for her campaign. By the standards of the graduate school I attended, it would be worth investigation!!! That aside, the process as it stands is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!! And WE, THE PEOPLE, hhave allowed this to occur through apathy, to name but one reason; and
4. Anyone who cannot support a FULL CONVENTION wherein the Candidate is chosen, is essentially NOT supporting the practice of democracy as embodied in the Constitution of the United States of America! No one here can cite which part of the Constitution states that a Candidate chosen by it’s party is merely “crowned” at the end of the primary race!!! What happened here is outrageous . . . and totally UNDEMOCRATIC!
Beyond all of this, there is not much more to say. As a veteran’s spouse (from Enduring Freedom) I can assure you that when there are Americans fighting a war, the most important principle to be PRACTICING is democracy through its most important and foundational principle: CHOICE!!! The FREEDOM TO CHOOSE!!! That is what is embodied in the Constitution and what ALL Americans need practice. Any vote against that principle is a vote to dissolve this Once and Future Republic.
I would urge everyone here to consider Bejamin Franklin’s words in response to a female question relative to the Con stitutional Convention and what “they” (our Founding Fathers) had “created:”
His reported reply was “a Republic Madam, if you can KEEP it!” (Emphasis added) Apparently, we are unable to keep it, in my humble view.
I owe NO ONE a reason as for why I have chosen to support Hillary. However, she did not lose this primary; she ran a tight race where the final decision NEEDS TO BE MADE AT THE CONVENTION. She owe’s no one her delegates and she is not the demon!!!
As for equality? That which most escapes us–redundantly–in PRACTICE, is gender equality. The highest of glass ceilings. In my view, that is what American’s are yearning for!!! When a woman has the same qualifications for a position in the private or public sector, then she should receive the same pay for that position as a man!!! There is the true INEQUALITY!!! And our Founding Fathers listened to their women. And culturally, let us not forget the saying that “behind every great man there is a woman!” =D So, that equality must be addressed before the issue of ethnic equality is with regard to holding office or being the CEO of a major corporation.
As for all those who want to blame Bill for her supposed loss, BALDERDASH!!! I am sick and tired of people who want to go on about his philandering (an immoral and lousy action to be sure!). And I am sorry to see so many women wanting to go on about it; it’s a remaining embarrassment for the GOP relative to impeaching President Clinton for those actions and a Congress which has turned a blind eye to impeachment of THIS President, whose high crimes and misdemeanors will most likely not ever be known in their entirety!!! At the cost of precious American lives which are “hidden!”
When is Senator Obama going to declare that Americans will have a final good-bye moment for those who have given their lives in defense of the Constitution? And when will he declare that he will meet every single troop coming home for the last time at Dover Air Force Base in full view of the entire country? When someone speaks of “getting what we deserve” relative to the past 8 years, are they taking that into consideration as well? Senator Clinton has been, and always will be, a staunch ally to our troops and their families. Those who have made the greatest sacrifice of all will not remain in the dark as they have under this administration with Hillary; that is one thing as a military spouse I KNOW!!! Those who exist beyond the military families have no understanding of their plight. I can assure you all that when I watched a documentary between troops and the candidates during the primaries, it was Hillary who OBVIOUSLY understood their plight, was and continued to, fight for them; she also made sure the troops understood the scope of her powers as a Senator when it comes to each state’s National Guardsmen. How many here even know that they receive only 50% of their rank pay when they are activated under state orders? Every National Guard unit activated for Enduring Freedom or Iraqi Freedom goes through at least a three (3) month period under state activation before moving to “Title X,” or full active duty and full pay and “benefits?” Hillary does and did in the documentary. One thing was clear to me, Senator Obama did not understand their plight, their issues, or their experiences based on what I saw. Rather, he stumbled, and spoke campaign statements. That, in my view, was a debate which Hillary won hands down.
I could go on as to why I support Hillary. However, it seems that is to no avail except to encourage more attacks, or “get over it” remarks. That is not my goal.
So, my question remains to everyone here: WHAT IS WRONG WITH HOLDING A TRUE CONVENTION AND CHOOSING OUR CANDIDATE THIS WEEK IN DENVER?
FACTS: 333 votes separted Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama at the end of the primaries. That’s less than what Bush proclaimed his “MANDATE” with in 2004!!!
So, are you willing to give up your right to CHOOSE your candidate over that few votes? I’m not. I would rather uphold the Constitution!!!
Respectully submitted to all . . .
Maureen

all this bickering will not change the fact that what is needed is a third party. I am a Hillary supporter, and deeply disappointed that an immature candidate was too vindictive to choose her for the second spot. Instead, he and his minions are already preparing for a possible defeat by blaming Hillary. This is a responsible leader? It is not her job to win his election. she is doing what she has to do because she is a good Democrat. But to blame her for his numerous shortcomings–which Michelle’s praise is not going t erase–is ridiculous.
I am with Carville,–one of the few democrats who knows whereof he speaks. The Party is in disarray, and no sympathetic, tear-jerking, adoring appearnces are going to save it. Only mature leadership can do that, and democrats have shown immaturity–alas.
We desperately need a thrid party with members who are intekigent, can think clearly, and rise above their greed and personal ambitions (no–this is not an anti-Hillary remark. she represents the best of all possible worlds available at the moment. she could, if she were given the opportunity, help to make it better).
Accusing her of jettisoning the women’s cause if she “allows McCain to win” is ludicrous. where on god’s green earth are the deomocratic senators and congresspeople, not to mention the idiotic superdelegates who allowed this mess to happen?? and why are they so busy blaming for their own stupidity and for what MIGHT happen. Get busy and make it right people, although you have backed us into a corner.
Will 4 years of mcCain do more to damage this country than the spinelessness of the Democratic lawmakers? Or the vindictivness of Democrats (including Obama and perhaps more to pint, his “lovely wife?)who abandoned Hillary because of some perceived (perhaps real; don’t know) personal slights inflicted by the Clintons?
Hillary said negative things about Obama?
What about Biden?
What about his own pastor?
What about all of the negative things Obama said about Hillary? Different game?
and finally, when asked if Hillary won the nomination would Michelle support her, she responded sagely “Well, I would have to think about that”? Does Hillary have the right to the same response today?
Why? Ask yourselves in all honesty–why have the rules been changed. and ask about NICE Obama’s treatment of Hillary, or Alice Palmer in chicago.
Sadly–we do not have a choice in the 2008 election. either road is a disaster for which we could begin blaming “Baby Bush” and his insane politics, not to mention his supporters, those Americans who, in the words of some, “are not stupid”?
I have a bridge in alaska for sale for anyone who beleives thap.s.
Jen, and your kind: get real. Hillary lost because she is a woman, not because she could not accumulate enough votes.

Maureen..I just want to say I applaud you taking the time to submit a heartfelt post. I too am a Hillary supporter and apologize to no one.
As I said above, the media and the DNC gave us the wrong candidate for the ticket. Thanks again…Kathleen

Well said Marian. The sexism that still runs rampant in this country and and media is unbeilevable to me. We have more female doctors and more women in top positions in Fortune 500 companies, but the Affirmative Action nominee got pushed through the Democratic system. He was their weakest link and I will be a HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN ALL THE WAY.
NEVER SOCK PUPPET.

McCain is the next President of the United States. Bottom line he has the experience the job takes. If the DNC would have been supportive of Clinton, she would have been our next president. Unfortunately, the DNC and the media took it upon themselves to tell us who would be the best Democrat for the ticket. They (the DNC and media) chose an inexperienced person with no message, no direction, just rhetoric. Anyone remember one of the most liberal of the news media, Chris Matthews, stating ‘afterall what do really know about Obama’ after Hiliary started winning the primaries again. Thanks Mr. Matthews….where was that comment at the beginning of the primaries. Hiliary would have been a great president. To the DNC.. please replace your leadership.
To the Media…you are to report facts remember..way too much personal opinion.
The power and arrogance most of you exude needs to be checked at the door before you face the camera
This is for Maureen…Kathleen

Sorry but 18 million of us do not want Hillary and are supporting Obama.

Hillary supporters cry sexism in this country. Well you also have to acknowledge that racism is alive and well and isn’t going away anytime soon.

ROTFLMAO I can’t believe you believe in these day to day polls. Many don’t have land lines and only use cell phones which aren’t polled. This polling needs to get with the times.

?…good luck with all 18 million of you, you’re going to need more than the black vote, and the young and stupid.
HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN!

Greetings Samantha,
I do acknowledge that ethnic divisiveness still exists in America! I have seen it first hand as a practicing Anthropologists and amongst my colleagues in the Conflict Analysis & Resolution masters program I attended. And it goes BOTH ways!!! I also agree that it’s a huge problem globally. Arguably, (apparently), none of the parties responsible for such social states want to fully acknowledge their contributions to the same. That is one of the first steps in resolving conflict.
Ultimately, our gender is determined at conception–as is our ethnicity. It’s rather like which came first, the chicken or the egg? (I am NOT attempting to simplify a major issue in the WORLD today). However, there were huge steps made in the ’60s as I was there and helped to ensure that they were passed (i.e., Civil Rights Act; Clean Water, Air, et cetera). There is a large part of history during that period and its immediate aftermath (including Nixon’s “impeachment through resignation!”) which is currently glossed over in public educational systems whilst those who fought for all those things are treated as outsiders because we were “Flower Children!” =)
Nevertheless, I agree that ethnic bigotry still exists and need be dealt with head on. I don’t believe that electing an African American for president who is not–in my view–ready for the job, is the answer to resolution of that issue. That’s going to take a full on conflict program wherein stakeholders represent all ethnicities and issues . . . and it results in a TRUE statement/practice of equality. That’s Utopian for many, I am confident; however, it represents that attitudes need change relative to ethnic bigotry.
On the other hand, gender equality rises to a higher priority for me. =) Thank you for your poignant response!
Cheers . . . Maureen

Nevile re the media support of Obama:
“It was an eye-opener.”
And a justice killer. Too bad.

I am an angry Clinton supporter.
I will not support Obama, He’s to dark for my liking.
His dark skin and black family scare me. I am a woman.
He thinks he’s better than me, eventhough I really dont have any proof of that, But hey if the media and the republicans say so, It must be true.
Hillary is our only hope, she’s the true messiah, sent from the heavens to save this party. The presidency was her destiny. Yet somehow she lost. I just dont understand, I prayed, I sold my 1st born’s soul to the devil, I sacrificed the family goat. I did everything i could, and she lost, I’m so distraught. I cant go on.
I’m voting for McCain, He says our economy is in good shape, and I agree.
Obama’s ears are to big, I dont like black looking men,they scare me.
He’s dangerous. He’s going to hurt me and my family.
I am a Hillary supporter, and eventhough she started off slow due to her cockiness, and she and her campaign managers didnt really take the time to understand the parties voting rules. and she didnt start to pick up steam, until after the Media had deemed Reverend Wright the devil.
I am a Hillary supporter, eventhough she didnt find her voice in time,she kept changing her message until she found one the voters could relate to.
I will continue to blame everyone, and I mean everyone for her many failures during the nomination process. everyone except Hillary Rodham Clinton, she is perfection, she makes no mistakes, she is the true master of the world, and the chosen one. The dems can burn in hell, before i will vote for Obama. He scares me. God where is the KKK when you need them, back when i was a young whipper snapper bouncing on the grand dragons lap, This would have never happened.
I’m am a bitter,hateful,delusional Hillary supporter and i will spew my venom to anyone who will listen. My voice will be heard, my voice and my vote is the only one that counts.
I hope he loses so the true messiah can run again in 2012, i just hope,pray,and burn crosses that a better candiate doesnt come along, and that the blacks remember there role next time and vote for HRC. I love you Hillary. Its all for you Hillary.

Greetings Kathleen,
Well stated and I concur!!! 300%!!! “Where have all the investigative reporters gone . . . long, long time ago,” to the tune of Peter, Paul and Mary’s song! LOL The media have taken over our politics in many respects (though having a page such as this relative to ABC or any other news organizations remains a tie to “corporate media” on the part of the people! *sigh*
Relative to everything you have said about the DNC, I also agree!!! If this type of “management, administration, and governing” is what Howard Dean represents, then we can be grateful to the media for having made such a “hoopla” about his victory yell. =P
As to the President that Hillary will make? (She will; either now or in 2012 . . . though I will be extremely disappointed if she does ‘release’ her delegates, gracefully or not!) I also agree. Anyone who has read her biography (admittedly, I haven’t; however, my 26 year old daughter has, and I trust her impressions emphatically and she remains a Hillary supporter planning to write her name in on the ballot [if it's NOT there]. I will be getting it within next few days! *blush*) KNOWS that she loves this country, the Constitution, and has dedicated her ENTIRE life to fighting for the issues she believes in, which includes health care, children, women, and . . . well, essentially the Democratic Platform!!! =P
I am disappointed in Matthews as well. Men remain intimidated by women, plain and simple! And before any men get their knickers in a twist over this, there are PLENTY of studies to support that. And they are based on SOUND science, not manipulated science.
I am sorry Hillary was unable to address the differences between herself and Senator Obama out of any perceived “racist,” what I prefer to call “ethnic bigotry” actually (Intellectual property relative to term! =D). Would that perhaps I could have been one of her speechwriters!!! *giggling* (Pardon the ego everyone, however we need be allowed to tout our personal strengths regardless of anything!!!) As is demonstrated in many posts here, that “Ethnic Bigotry” remains. Bigotry is bigotry; we needn’t continue to label things and people and all to death! In my view, that’s part of the problem which led to the smooth takeover of America through apathy on the part of Her People! Democracy requisites participation!!!
I absolutely don’t think Hillary supporters need be as extreme as voting for McCain. I would rather see them write her name in for President and Sen. Obama’s name in for Vice President!!! (Actually submitted a guest column to local paper on this very issue??? =D) For those who are able to reasonably discourse on politics without making it personal, there is an unofficial consensus that a “Clinton/Obama” ticket would be the absolute DREAM ticket, and unbeatable relative to McCain/???. Why isn’t the “Party” listening???
As for all those who desire to demonize Senator Clinton, or even ABC to characterize what is occurring “behind the scenes” as “drama” is disrespectful of her, as well as the process of choosing a Candidate, and their $$$ spent pushing/deciding the Candidate for us as you point out. Personally, were I in Hillary’s shoes, my anger and fight would derive from the fact that historically, when our country was forming under the Constitution, the one who got the MOST votes was President, and the one who obtained the second most votes would be Vice President. That is, after all, how John Adams became our first Vice President with George Washington. And the MAN whined about how useless the position was continuously; nevertheless Hillary and women in general, are EXPECTED to accept such treatment with “grace” or be demonized as “whiners.” Hhhmmmpppffff . . .
Thanks Kathleen for continuing a discourse on why this is an issue to begin with. =D Maureen

ALL CABLE NEWS REPORTING NO BIDEN “BUMP”….speculation Hillary would have been a way to energize the ticket and go for a win.
HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN!

Maureen:
“Men remain intimidated by women”
Agreed, but note the reason is that most do not feel comfortable “confronting” a woman, thus the intimidation.

Maureen:
I considered doing just that (writing in HRC, or not voting at all), but the reality of American politics is that it would probably guarantee a win for Obama. The bivalent nature of our electoral process does not support success for a write-in movement. Such a move might leave the election results in doubt, and open the door to an Obama presidency, which I believe to be a disaster for this country.
On the other hand, a vote for McCain helps to ensure a loss by Obama. This is the real objective now. Obama must not win. It is his character that is flawed, and there is too much at stake. It transcends the very real issues you have raised about the treatment that Hillary received.
So please, hold your nose and vote for McCain.

With rights come responsibilities! You have the right to vote for whom ever you choose, but it is also your responsibility to look at what each candidate is proposing for your country. The President alone does not control the direction the country goes in. The responsibility is divided between the Legislative branch (the Senate and the House of Representatives), the Executive branch (The President and the Cabinet members) and the Judicial branch (the Supreme Court). A President alone has very little real power if the other 2 branches are controlled by the opposite political party. It is only when at least 2 of the branches of government are controlled by the same political party that an agenda will succeed. You can see this now, the Democrats are in charge of the legislative branch, the Republicans are in charge of the Executive branch and the Judicial branch is split and nothing is getting done. If you like McCain’s policies and agenda then vote Republican for the House, Senate, and the Presidency. If you like Obama’s policies and agenda then vote Democrat for the House, Senate and the Presidency. Other wise you get the more of what we have now, a stalled government. I personally like the Democrat’s policies and agenda more, so I will vote accordingly, and I don’t care if the candidate is Clinton or Obama. What I am voting for the policies and agenda of the Democrat party not a personality. If you vote out of anger, spite, personality traits or reasons other than the policies and agendas of the parties then you are not living up to your responsibilities as a voter.

hILLARY IS ON CABLE NEWS NOW DOING HER RUN THROUGH AND ALL EYES AND EARS ARE ON HER.
GOD, I LOVE HER. WHENEVER SHE SPOKE I HEARD EVERY WORD. When Bozo talks, I nod off, can’t stand watching and listening to him…hurts my ears.
HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN, NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS IN SPEECH TONIGHT.

In the end democrats will put party before country and vote for the extreme liberal who will damage our economy and weaken our security.

“Agreed! However, that need not continue to be an obstacle if we are both (i.e., genders) willing to recognize and agree, yes? Even disagreeing is appropriate if we are truly to be “gender-blind” wouldn’t you concur? ”
Concerning the women I have known, respected most, and been happiest around, there was a natural sense of equality between us. A natural sense of complete acceptance at whatever level the relationship had progressed to.
“Much of the “divisiveness” is wrought in the way things are framed.”
As I said above.
“I am presuming that you meant “confronting” in the sense of the heightened awareness relative to domestic violence, and the enculturation of men that “confronting” a women, even if in debate, is inappropriate and unacceptable?”
Maybe a hangover from the “cave age”. The fact that most men are stronger than women and there is an unfairness in bullying. That sort of transferred automatically to the mental side.

Greetings Nevile,
While you set forth many arguments for why you believe that an Obama presidency would be disastrous for this Country, I can not “hold my nose” and vote for McCain. That merely ensures that our military is “used” as though the precious lives defending our Constitution are “expendible.” (The attitude of the current administration!)
It remains only the 2nd day of the Convention, and a Superdelegate can change their vote right down to the last second. Whether one accepts current polling (and my MACS respresents an ability to present a poll; much of the results are based on HOW the question is presented) or not, that remains a fact; and many of those who are depending on ensuring a filibuster proof Democratic majority (such as Pelosi . . . whose speech last night was NOT in prime time coverage!!! =P) may look at those polls and say . . . whoops!!! I hope that 345 is the correct number of “Superdelegates?” That exceeds the 333 separation of the primaries!!! It also remains a fact that Hillary’s name will be in the roll call, and it does NOT require delegates to give a “symbolic” vote!
In that sense, I retain the “audacity of hope” that she will not release her delegastes, and that the vote will change in the first roll call! If those who support Obama are not happy with that, and if Senator Obama cannot “gracefully” accept such an outcome, then we have indeed LOST our democratic practice embodied in the Constitution.
If a write in attempt in November is unsuccessful, then “they,” whomever “they” are, can blame those who cast such votes. If there were enough cast in that vein rather that than a complete reversal in position for Hillary’s supporters (which truly makes no sense whatsoever), and a vote for McCain!!! Again, am unable to bring myself to “hold my nose” and vote in that manner.
I hold out the hope that such a “movement” as you characterize it, would be just the “change” we are seeking! =D And my, what a story for the media!!! LOL President Clinton wins by a landslide victory, Senator Obama takes Vice Presidential slot . . . I don’t think the electorate would be able to ignore that realistically. That’s the type of movement that Margaret Mead spoke of in her famous quote relative to doubt that a single individual/small group cannot produce change . . . indeed that is where it begins.
What say you Nevile?
Cheers, Maureen

One thing I would like to put forth in regards to Obama’s “disrespect” of Clinton by not selecting her as his potential VP or the (apparent) lack of serious consideration of her in the role is this:
Hilary asked not to be vetted unless she were going to be chosen.
How can you seriously consider someone as your running mate who will only provide information unless she is guaranteed that spot? That would just be ridiculous, and a foolhardy decision. If she had wanted to be seriously considered, she should have agreed to be vetted, plain and simple.

windrider:
“If Clinton’s so-called “supporters” defeat Obama, she is DONE for life.”
Only Clinton herself can damage her future. She’s in an unfortunate and tough position, put there by the media and Obama’s “good luck” of not being vetted early on. Too bad.

Maureen:
” I can not “hold my nose” and vote for McCain.”
Sorry to butt in, but please reconsider. One vote less for McCain is one more for Obama.

Biden shed tears in front of press this morning and nothing, but when Hillary got emotional, not even bringing out the Kleenex like Biden did, SHE WAS REAMED BY OBOTS. Hillary owes these people nothing. I hope she takes a long vacation and quits going to every state for Bozo.
HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN!

Obama won’t lose. This country is smarter than to vote for more of the Bush policies. Spin it all you like, McGoo won’t win.

Nah, the ‘P’ is for Pam, but I didn’t want to be confused with someone else. I am looking for the vetting reference. I can’t recall where I read it, but it was recent (within the past week), and not from an Obama source or a blog. But I wasn’t where I could tag it, so I apologize for the lack of source reference.

Thanks, Debra. I concur with your last remarks. The Obama deal killer for me was his admission that as committee chairman he had never held any hearings on Afghanistan because he was too busy running for president. What this indicated to me was that he put personal ambition above duty to his country. He was elected to do a job for his state and the nation. He chose instead to pursue his personal ambitions and use his considerable taxpayer paid salary to subsidize his personal quest. He has given the country no value for the money that it has invested in him. It tells me that he really doesnt give a damn about anyone but himself, and that he has no sense of duty. This selfish and self-centered attitude is not a desirable quality in a president – or a vice-president, for that matter. He is not fit to be president. Period.
Maureen: I share your wish that the DNC will come to its senses and nominate Hillary instead. But I sincerely doubt that that will happen. That leaves us with three alternatives:
A presidential write-in campaign (which U.S. history has shown to be an excersize in futility); voting for a third party candidate – again, a historically proven pointless endeavour; or a reluctant vote for John McCain.
So let me address some of your important concerns about John McCain: First, he is not George Bush. Unlike the latter, he is a man of honour. His military background and experience indicates to me that he will not vainly commit our troops willy nilly to military adventures. He understands from personal experience the human cost of going to war. He is against torture. He has a plan for energy independence. There are a number of issues that I disagree with him on, but for brevity’s sake I will not go into them. But what I have mentioned above give me reason to not just vote against Obama. I also have at least something and someone to vote for.
You may feel differently. That is your right. You have the right to be wrong.
Regards,
Nevile

Begala is wrong…If Obama loses it is because he failed to connect with enough of the electorate to get elected. It will not be the fault of Hillary or Bill Clinton…I never heard such nonsense.

Lifelong Democrat,
I don’t know where you draw your conclusions from, however I do not give my support to either McCain, Bush, or any other GOP Candidate and haven’t EVER!
No, I didn’t vote for Bush! Where you can conclude that is beyond me!!! Thus, everything you state is merely agitation and goading, in my view. Think I’ll pass.

Nevile,
I appreciate your comments; and your perspectives. I give them the same that you have given me. However, that does not mean that I am “wrong,” rather in your view incorrect.
I believe that a write in campaign can work if enough people have the courage to make it so (Yes! We Can!); what or where is the difference between that call and a write in campaign. Regardless of whether it’s historically reduced to an “exercise in futility.”
Some will state (and have) that the fact that Obama is polling behind McCain now is evidence of the inability to “unite” the party. And Hillary has not even spoken nor has the roll call vote been taken. How many of those Superdelegates rely on polling and look at the current situation, with the lack of “bounce” from Biden’s announcement? I am merely raising points in the discussion.
Nevertheless, I will not vote for John McCain because all I have seen of the once and former “Maverick” is no longer discernable from George W. Bush. Bush and this administration have done more damage to our country than all the faux pas of past presidents in our short 200+ yr. history!
In the end, when we all enter the privacy of the “voting booth” it is between us, our conscious, and the Cosmic Force. As I watch the convention while I post here (a rarity), and listen to mainstream media report a “lack of unity” on the floor beyond what appears even here.
What is best for the country is what I think everyone need be thinking about given more serious responses from Russia, Iraq’s stalemate in negotiations for withdrawal that include allowing troops to be prosecuted in Iraq pursuant to Iraqi law, and a firm date for withdrawal. China may have just hosted the Olympics, however they are a greater threat in the world today.
With Russia, Bush & Co. have literally set us back to the days of the Cold War. If that’s the case, then I want someone experienced in the White House!!! Yes, McCain is a veteran, and knows the military; however Hillary is a former First Lady and has a spouse who remains HIGHLY RESPECTED around the world and is a great Statesman. That means something to me in the current global atmoshphere, particularly in light of the recent agreement with Poland and the situation in Georgia.
While I respect Senator Biden tremendously, I don’t think his VP position is going to be enough to govern in what appears to be a rapidly escalating conflict leading to WWIII!!!
I know you will most likely argue that’s reason to vote for McCain. However, for me it is not. And I shall remain ever hopeful that “the Party” such as it is, will recognize what is best for it and the Country! Split the ticket and make it Clinton/Obama and there will be no chance they can beat us in November!
Thanks for the discourse! =) Maureen

So Hillary supporters are willing to vote for John McCain, a man who
* calls his wife a c*nt
* makes jokes of physical appearance of the daughter of a political opponent (Chelsea Clinton)
* let his supporters call a politcal opponent a b*tch (Hillary Clinton)

Paula -
Listen … plink!, hear that? That’s the sound of the world’s smallest violin!:D
PUMA!

Maureen Startin:
“Nevertheless, I will not vote for John McCain”
This is an example of “intimidation”. I give up and likely so will Nevile, but really it’s knowing when to fold them in a discussion with some women’s emotional decisions. However it is your right, whether or not it leads to your real goal. Unless that’s electing Obama, that is.

Maureen:
Not to pile on, but a ps please:
It’s just the way we’re programed. The cave man when he sees a male approaching, looks to see if he has a club. The cave woman is more likely to check to see if he has a smile on his face.. :)