Wolfson: Obama Needs to Praise Bill Clinton Thursday Night

of course he does…that would be respectful…I am sure he will.
He has…he doesn’t make the Clinton years out to be the greatest Presidency of our history…as Bill wants…
and he can’t say he is okay with things that were wrong with those years (because we need to remember although BUsh is overwhelmingly to blame for the past 8 years …and those policies that Mccain is promising to continue ugh…
we have been on this road to self-destruction for a long time.
We can’t just act like that’s not true.
and will he make the convention all about Bill Clinton…no. will hemake it even half about Bill Clinton …no.
but praise the positive things he has done yes. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not he has done that often.

Bill doesn’t need a telepromptr. I want to hear him ROAR. Let’s here the kick off for the new new party, Bill! We’re with you and Hillary 100%

“manned up” ?
I may agree that Obama trashed the best, woops ONLY, 2-term Dem we’ve had in the WH in my voting life-time. But judging by the results, “manned up” is not a phrase I could apply to any politican.

wow. I seriously doubt if Obama had lost the nomination he would act this way.

Perhaps Republicans were right in the 90s. The Clintons and their top supporters obviously have no interest in what is best for the party and for the country. Their only interest is for themselves and their power. It turns out that they really are pathetic.

And on Hillary Clinton’s brother, do you really think she (or any of us) have control over our family members? This is dumb.

Ned Lamont? you mean the anti-war candidate who lost to an Indpendent. I do believe Clinton knows that far left liberals like Lamont lose elections.

Marylou
your comments only hurt …
everyone.
the clintons, the dems, the issues, Obama, clinton’s real supporters …
again only 5% of clinton supporters at the convention will not support obama.
and Please keep it factual…

I agree Obama should paraise Bill Clinton.
Though bill speaks first and he should man up and praise Obama.

as a big obama supporter wolfson is right
and I am sure that will happen as it should…
end of discussion is the point.
this is a convention that’s focus overwhelmingly should be about 2009 onward.
not the past.
that is why wolfson really didn’t need to say it… it’s not a story.

This report is a classic example of the extent mainstream media have embraced tabloid journalism. They are striving to keep the “enraged Hillary supporters” headline alive to stir the pot, and have us believe the Democratic party is in chaos. Today’s mainstream media is government-controlled and bent on steering this election to a win for the conservatives. MSM has a lot to lose if a Dem wins this election. MSM knows that a Dem will pursue FEC reform and force the media to clean its act up.
The “Hillary supporters” that are still raging are not Democrats at all. They are cloaked Republican radicals masquerading as Dems. Their whole argument has become extremely tiresome, especially since their groups PUMA and Just Say No Deal were debunked on Hardball two weeks ago

MediaWatch,
Facts are facts. 25% of Clinton supporters have defected to McCain. Another 25% has said they will not vote or are undecided. 50% will support Obama.
Those are terrible #s.

Deep Release, Hillary didn’t want to be vetted unless she were guaranteed that she would be the nominee, which defeats the point of vetting! She wanted to be his ONLY choice, not one of many; so, she wasn’t vetted. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t consider her. It means that she wanted him to consider only her. If ou think she didn’t say some awful things about him during the primaries, you’re crazy. That’s politics. Look at McCain and Romney. She and her supporters need to stop this highjacking of the party, and kiss my ### because I didn’t garner enough delegates to win stances. It only shows Democratic weakness that we can’t come together when our particular choice doesn’t emerge as the nominee. Repubs do it all the time, no matter how wrong on policy they may be, or how much they may dislike it each other, they still fall in line behind the nominee. At least they know how to stick together to win, even if they steer the country into a ditch. We need to put the country first by putting party unity first; Obama wouldn’t have behaved this way had it been the other way around, and Clinton surely would not have chosen him as her Veep.

“wow. I seriously doubt if Obama had lost the nomination he would act this way.”
.
Posted by: Vanessa
Michelle said that if Obama lost the nomination, she’d have to think about whether or not she’d even vote for Hillary. And the Obama supporters say that if he lose the general, they won’t vote for Hillary next time. THAT’S how the Obama supporters define “party loyalty.” And I want no part of it.

For years I was a supporter of the Clintons but no longer.
I’m sick and tired of the drama that it’s all about them. It goes to show they are more concerned with their trying to hold on to what little power they have left, than the direction that McCain will take this country.
I just hope obama wins so we can be rid of them once and for all.

I do not care what Bill wants. His time has passed. The country needs to move forward. The Democrates need to move forward. Lingering in the past with McCain is not an option that bodes well.
The Clintions didn’t help with Kerry or Gore, can’t the Party see that?

So Wolfson is demanding that Obama grovel to the Clintons at the convention? Well, if Obama can’t handle a has-been like Bill Clinton, folks like Putin and bin Laden will eat his lunch on the internatinal scene. Its time to man-up people, this isn’t the minor leagues.

Bill needs to sit down and shut up, just like Jimmy Carter.

As an Obama supporter, I can tell you if Hillary and her die hard supporters cost Obama the election, we will not vote for her in 2012. So, if you push McCain only in the hopes that Hillary will run and win in 2012, think again. Obama supporters will make sure she loses. I guarantee it!!

So, let me get thsi straight. They polled less than 1000 so-called die-hard Clinton supporters and 500 said they wouldn’t vote for Obama. And so they extrapolate that out and think that it means 9 million won’t vote for him.
This would be true if all 18 million? of Clinton supporters from the Primaries are as avid as a few hundred seem to be. Which isn’t the case. The vast, vast majority know which side of their bread is buttered an daren’t so stupid as to believe that McCain is out for their best interests. If I were Obama, I wouldn’t worry too much about a poll like this. And I get the feeling he knows better.

Sorry Obamanuts — but in the long run it isn’t about Hillary (at least for me) It is about The lack of character that Obama and his supporters showed during the primary — they took every right wing talking point against the Clintons and used it against them in the primary — no, no, no. That showed me exactly who he was and from then on I knew I could never vote for him. I don’t care about 2012 –vote for who you want. As for me — NO OBAMA NO WAY!!!!

The Democratic Party is breaking their own rules. The DNC is arranging to have a secret paper ballot of all delegates before the actual count. THE PARTY WILL BE VIOLATING THEIR OWN RULES. Obama and the DP are trying to shut down any dissent.
Obama is not the victor. He is the presumptive nominee and was pushed over the finish line by buying off the superdelegates.
At this point, any other Democratic presumptive nominee would be ahead by 10 or more points. This race is tied because the country does not trust Senator Obama.

Hillary and Bill should just get over themselves! Did Kerry check with Bill before he choose Edwards – Did Gore check with him before he choose the “Independent” – of course not. The audacity of Obama to show some guts and make his own pick without getting their permission. The nerve of him!! Geez, Bill and Hillary get over yourselves – and all of Hillary’s enraged supporters – go ahead and vote for whoever you want…

The Democratic Party has tried to silence Hillary Clinton once before, and it backfired. They are attempting to do it behind the scenes now.
The Democratic Party has become the party of lies, coverups and deception.
If you’re a far left liberal, you should look at Ralph Nader. Sure he has no shot, but a symbolic vote for REAL change would go a long way in the long run.

David Shuster was spanked and suspended by MSNBC for two weeks following his vapid comments about Chelsea Clinton.
David Shuster could not shill any harder for Obama or he’d pop a gasket, just like ALL of MSNBC spokesmodels.

Oh I wish I could be at the convention tonight but I will be at home watching Michelle speak

“WE love the Clintons! They are the greatest thing to happen to the Democratic party since FDR”
Hmmmmmm……… who is we?
I am surprised that he has any woman’s vote; the womaniser that he is.
That all we need a pouty ex president. Does tha expression even make sense? Talk about showing weakness.

Having worked on the Clinton/Gore Campaign in 1992 and voted for Bill twice, I think the Clinton’s and their Neocon roleplayers (Penn, Wolfson et. al etc.) need to call it a day. If the Clinton’s are really united and supporting this party, why do Clinton’s surrogates keep pouring salt on the wounds. The Clinton’s got two prime speaking spots. Obama does not need to kiss Bill’s butt. Have the Clinton’s ever apologized to the American people for allowing their personal conduct to get in the way of advancing Progressive causes?

The dems are about as united as the Obama clan. While Obama will be staying in a fancy hotel his poor brother will be sleeping on the floor of a hut in Kenya. Is this how he promises to take care of the people of our country?

“a symbolic vote for REAL change would go a long way in the long run.”

I just have an idea. Since McCain is saying that the Democrats don’t respect Hillary, McCain should pick Hillary as VP. This will save him from having to pick Romney, someone McCain clearly does not respect. Then the diehard Hillary supporters who are voting for McCain will be happy. Obama will benefit too, because he will get millions and millions of votes from Republicans who hate Hillary and Bill more than Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

The Democratic party base wants Hillary to be the nominee. The Dem base LOVES the Clintons, always has, always will.
The overwhelming majority of Democratic voters cast their ballots for Hillary in the primaries. Hillary has won the popular vote, winning MORE votes than ANY candidate of ANY party in history! Let’s give credit where it’s long overdue! Hillary won ALL of the large, must win states that Dems must win in November. ALL. Obama’s small number of caucus wins should not equate to Hillary’s enormous, impressive wins. No one is delusional enough to actually believe that states like Utah (where Obama won the “caucus”) are actually in play for the Dems in a general election. Hillary still crushes McCain in polls today in the must win states and nationwide, while Obama is tied or LOSING. The Dems must want to lose in November if they foolishly nominate an unelectable Obama.
Superdelegates can salvage this nightmare by voting to nominate Hillary.
We are ashamed of our Democratic party which has and continues to engage in very un-democratic processes in 2008. As we speak, the DNC Obama thugs who have hijacked the party are strong arming the delegates to stay for Obama even though they KNOW he’s a LOSER. Shame on them! IS THIS the party we stood with in 2000 and 2004 demanding that EVERY vote be counted and that the process be democratic? WHAT the hell has happened? Obama has destroyed the party. The ONLY way to take the party back is to destroy Obama. Let’s do it! The DNC understands ttwo things in 2008, money and votes. WE have the power to with hold BOTH. DO IT!
“You must do the one thing which you think you cannot do” Eleanor Roosevelt

Sen.Obama and David Axelrod speak the
same LANGUAGE “AH, AH, AH, AH,”

Barack and Michelle Obama are a disgrace. NO class.

i think the clintons have no class, all thsi complaining, soo pathetic obama gives and gives and gives and has to walk on egg shells for these two, and still they cry about everything
the clintons are OUT
get out of here clintons

Well I am certainly learning one thing this election; the Clintons certainly do not have any party affiliation, and it isn’t country first either.

Remember, Sen. Joe Biden, mister “my kitchen table is like yours” voted FOR the bankruptcy bill, making filing for bankruptcy very, very difficult for people. Biden hails from Delaware, the state of BANKS, and Biden is behholding to them. Check out his campaign contributors.
Biden was a poor choice. Biden has the wrong temperament to be VP or President. He’s a hothead and has a loose mouth he cannot control.
Remember, Obama wrongly voted FOR the Bush/Cheney Energy Bill, as a favor to his major contributor Exelon Energy Corporation, while John McCain and Hillary Clinton correctly voted NO on the Bush/Cheney Energy Bill.
Obama-Biden ticket is a LOSER!
It’s Hillary or McCain 08 and Hillary 2012. Country first, party second.
Superdelegates, do the right thing for our Dem party and our country and nominate Hillary, she’s a WINNER!

The Clinton’s are anything but stupid. Most of the media hype you are hearing regarding any infighting is just B.S. brought to you by the GOP smear machine. Hillary lost, and she will pull up her big girl panties and work for the good of the USA, and so will Bill. We can’t afford 4 more years of GOP rule, and the Clintons more then most are aware of that.
Look for Hillary and Bill to come out and hit McCain hard.

Some of us who were ready to support Obama are unhappy because of the way he treated Hillary and by extension all women. I wasn’t enthralled with her either, but that trick of Obama’s of using surrogates to attack and then looking like he had nothing to do with it was one of the nastier things he did during the campaign. Same with Bill Clinton. Regardless of how they feel about each other, if Obama doesn’t treat Bill with some respect – and he certainly has not during his entire campaign – he will alienate (a) elders, (b) older white males (c) independents, and others whose support he needs.
More than half the electorate doesn’t want Obama OR McCain. So aside from alienating women, older white males, independents, and Republicans who might vote for him, you would think Obama has the sense to know whose support he needs and to quit insulting them. What Obama and McCain both have is an unfortunate streak of sarcasm and the desire to ridicule those who don’t agree with them. Hillary had it too.
Somebody wake up these candidates and let them know what they are doing to defeat themselves.

We recently celebrated with great pride, awe, and enthusiasm a victory for the United States. Michael Phelps won 8 gold medals. He was the “favorite” to win … and he did it! However, he had one race that was close. So close in fact that it appears that he and the second place swimmer perhaps crossed the finish line “together”. It was a hard race, a valiant effort on the part of both swimmers, and yet one of them won gold. Do we really expect that Michael will give up his gold medal because the other swimmer came so close, gave the race all he had, and appeared to really have won? No, we do not! Do we expect the gold medal gymnast to give Shawn Johnson that gold medal because Shawn worked really hard and had been in the lead, because it looked early on that she would win gold? Do we expect that the track and field runner who lunged forward to claim the silver medal to trade for the bronze because if he hadn’t fallen forward the other guy would have won silver? No, we absolutely do not! This pity party is the result of poor planning, or better yet, a failure to plan, failure to understand the nature of the election cycle, and unfortunately, the failure of assuming an outcome without giving the voters a chance to “have their voices heard.” Why is the winner supposed to apologize to the loser first for having won, second, for being prepared for the contest, and third, for fielding the better team? Quick slogans and 10 second zingers do not a president make. This election was never a prize fight. The realization of that fact appears to be a lesson Obama opponents have still not yet learned!
As for the comments that Bill Clinton made along the campaign trail that were “perceived” quite differently than “intended” … let’s call it even. Both Barack and Michelle Obama made comments that were absolutely “perceived” differently than “intended.” This notion of apologizing for having succeeded, having reached the initial part of the ultimate goal, having won the nomination is crazy!

Hogwash. Hillary and Bill Clinton have done more to undermine their Democratic opponent than anyone I can recall in my adult life.

First of all, I dare anyone to find where Obama accused Bill or anyone else of being racists. Stop accusing what private people said, or what was blown up in the media to what came out of Obama’s mouth. Didn’t happen.
And those Hillary supporters…why not check on McCain’s voting record? That he votes against th GI bill, that he voted against the Violence Against Women Act, that he voted against helping the victims of Katrina… he voted against Pay Equity for Women. Now you want to vote for that as a woman? You want to vote for a man that voted AGAINST every bill for doing anything for Alternative Energy? Really? You would rather keep your angst and “F” (that is for Fail or any other F word you care to use.)the future? Vote for McCain that called his wife a “C”.That in a town hall when a man stood up and asked “How they were going to put the “B” down…and he laughted. So you tell me…you have Hillary who knew she had lost months before she finally stopped…Millions before she went into debt so badly.
As far as her being VP…there was no way. And why? Because Bill would not open up his books for the library or where he gets his speaking fees. That is why…that is why she wanted the guarentee that she would be told that she had it and would be the only one asked. She knows this. Bill and Hillary are political people and used to having the ownership of the Democratic party…and now it is Obama’s and they are just getting used to that.
Hillary supporters, this is a democracy and there are always losers…Hillary lost. She ran a bad campaign..she did not handle her money well, she did not take in all the possibilities of what if she came in behind. No plan B. She failed. Get over it and choose what kind of future you want…check out the records of McCain and Obama…surprising Obama is not an empty suit at all…getting more kids on healthcare in Illinois in a republican run state senate, Minimun wage in that state, ethics reform in his state and Federally…he brought up hundreds of bills in Illinois…please check out the records and vopte what is best for you and your children.

Wolfson request that Obama should kiss Bill’s behind is absolutely bs. Why are we still taking about the Clintons despite the fact that they lost to Obama? It seems that some people who made it to the top on the cutail of the Clintons are finding it very difficult to recognize that there is a new Sheriff in town and that every body need to follow him.
Lets give Obama his due and please stop this Clinton garbage and support the party winner and current Democratic Party leader – Barack Obama

Tari,
The convention is put on by private means…corporations for having their ads everywhere, big time Dems donate just to the convention…I send my 15.00 a month to Obama..but have donated to the DNC for the convention. No campaign money is used.

We recently celebrated with great pride, awe, and enthusiasm a victory for the United States. Michael Phelps won 8 gold medals. He was the “favorite” to win … and he did it! However, he had one race that was close. So close in fact that it appears that he and the second place swimmer perhaps crossed the finish line “together”. It was a hard race, a valiant effort on the part of both swimmers, and yet one of them won gold. Do we really expect that Michael will give up his gold medal because the other swimmer came so close, gave the race all he had, and appeared to really have won? No, we do not! Do we expect the gold medal gymnast to give Shawn Johnson that gold medal because Shawn worked really hard and had been in the lead, because it looked early on that she would win gold? Do we expect that the track and field runner who lunged forward to claim the silver medal to trade for the bronze because if he hadn’t fallen forward the other guy would have won silver? No, we absolutely do not! This pity party is the result of poor planning, or better yet, a failure to plan, failure to understand the nature of the election cycle, and unfortunately, the failure of assuming an outcome without giving the voters a chance to “have their voices heard.” Why is the winner supposed to apologize to the loser first for having won, second, for being prepared for the contest, and third, for fielding the better team? Quick slogans and 10 second zingers do not a president make. This election was never a prize fight. The realization of that fact appears to be a lesson Obama opponents have still not yet learned!
As for the comments that Bill Clinton made along the campaign trail that were “perceived” quite differently than “intended” … let’s call it even. Both Barack and Michelle Obama made comments that were absolutely “perceived” differently than “intended.” This notion of apologizing for having succeeded, having reached the initial part of the ultimate goal, having won the nomination is crazy!

The last thing Obama needs to do is praise Bill Clinton. Billary Clinton, because they always were and still are an indivisible political unit, had 8 long years to rape this country while they were in the White House. It is now time for them to shut up, take their ill gotten gains, and leave the political stage. If Billary had invested 10% of the tenacity that they showed during this campaign, to fight the Republicans when they actually had the Presidency, this country would be much better off than it is today.
I am a 57 year old woman who is lifelong, far left Democrat. I was not swept away by the rhetoric of hope and change by two people who, to me, are both corporate owned and so far right that they’re not even centrist.
I supported Obama because Billary came with so much baggage, that I did not believe they could, or should, win the Presidential election, again. I vote Democratic because, dismal though they might be, Democrats are still better than Republicans.

the link doesn’t work. someone post the story Jake is talking about.

tara, BILL CLINTON KEPT THIS ENTIRE ECONOMY AFLOAT THROUGHOUT HIS PRESIDENCY.

linda, YOU NEED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH REALITY. HILLARY NEVER ONCE SAID THAT MCCAIN WOULD BE A BETTER COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF THAN OBAMA. YOU NEED TO STOP HUMALIATING YOURSELF.

Well that weak little wimp, beat your girl Hillary, so what does that make her.

OMG, I love Bon Jovi and Springstein. I wonder who McGoo will have.

OMG I love Bon Jovi and Springstein. I wonder who McGoo will have.

ENOUGH WITH THE CLINTONS! For goodness sake! The election is not about Bill and his “legacy”; it is not about Hillary and her “catharsis”: it is about electing Obama! The man could not have been more gracious and the narcissistic Clintons keep whining, “More!” They need a proper spanking and to get with the program.And fewer lies like Wolfson’s.

Bill Clinton – a thin-skinned, narcissistic politico who consistently overstates and overestimates his legacy in history. May this convention be Bill and Hillary’s last hurrah…because if they manage to undermine the Obama candidacy (by damning with faint praise or worse), you can kiss their sorry political careers goodbye once and for all. I used to love them…but now I say good riddance!

Friends, Americanss, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him;
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones,
So let it be with Caesar … The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it …

Bill Clinton
IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU ANYMORE!!!!
LET IT GO.
Obama is the best for this time, not your righteous indignation.
GET OVER YOURSELF

Wrong, Obama’s been praising Slick Willy since FOREVER, suck it up Clinton, either get on board or GET OUT!

Ned Lamont – one trick anti-war pony LOSER
Barack Obama -one trick anti-war pony presumptive LOSER

-America’s Moral Issue.
There is no “whites only” sign at door of the Whitehouse, or is there?-
The world’s Moral Issue.
There is no “males only” sign at the door of the Whitehouse, or so we thought.

JG: that’s a classic Straw Man Argument.
The Democrats *never* claimed “Obama did not grow up in Indonesia”.

Willem:
You really think so? Watch his ads sometime, and pay careful attention to the convention framing. Obama will be presented as having Kansas roots, while Biden will be the average Joe PA guy. No mention of Indonesia either in Obama’s ads nor the convention.

JG, that’s extremely weak. Assuming what YOU think will happen or not happen, and then using that *assumption* as ‘proof’ that Dems are claiming he hasn’t live in Indonesia is ridiculous.
Dems and Obama himself have even used his history of living in Indonesia as basis for having a broader knowledge of the world.
You’re clutching at straws.

The Dems could have nominated Jesus Christ and they would accuse him of Pedophilia when he said “Let the little children come to me”.
And they would accuse him of Class Warfare after he said that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Willem:
No need to use ad hominems like extremely weak and clutching at straws.
Yes, Obama has said that somehow being 5-10 in Indonesia makes him better qualified than McCain to negotiate with foreign leaders.
But you miss the larger logical inconsistency and instead sweep the inconsistency under the table. The main talking point on Biden is that “hes an average Joe who was raised in Scranton” even though he left Scranton at 10 years old. Obama, in his present configuration, is running from any hint of “foreign” and instead wrapping up in the heartland of Kansas as his roots, despite the fact that he never lived in Kansas and did live in Indonesia until 10 (albeit moving there at 5).
I would just like an explanation how a thinking person can not see a logical contradiction in the message packaging about the Pres/VP . No need for ad hominem attacks, just logic.

JG: you contradict yourself. You say he is running from having lived in Indonesia, yet you acknowledge that he tells you that he has lived in Indonesia.
Both can’t be true. Since you yourself acknowledge that he tells you he has lived in Indonesia, then he is not running from it.
Do you think McCain will tell you at his convention that he was an Episcopalian his entire life? Do you think he wants his Base to learn that?

“I’ve never heard of that Estate bill either. Perhaps estate taxes? Seems like a red herring.”

Off topic, but a question:
The entire Democratic establishment is stating that Biden “grew up” in Scranton, PA, with the obvious goal of helping Obama’s chances in PA. Biden left PA at the age of 10.
Question: Did Obama “grow up” in Jakarta, Indonesia, and not Kansas or Hawaii as his campaign says, because Obama “grew up” in Indonesia from age 5 until he left at age 10, same age as Biden left PA?
I wonder if there are any Obama people out there who would explain how the logic of “Biden grew up in PA” and “Obama did not grow up in Indonesia” can coexist.
Thanks.
———
I don’t think anyone is trying to imply there was a coexistance of Senator Obama and Senator Biden from ages 5-10. It is a FACT Biden was born and raised in Scranton, PA. It is also a fact Senator Obama was born and raised in Hawaii for his first five years, moved with him mom to Jakarta and returned to Hawaii at age ten. I believe the Democratic is saying, both these men came from modest means, middle-clas America and that too, is true.
I just love how some people try to read what THEY WANT into something that has nothing to do with what THEY want.
And why be so critical?? Hilliary also claimed Scranton as her “home”, recall? At least Senator Biden DID, IN FACT, LIVE THERE, he didn’t just occassionally “visit”.

Hillary’s ultimate objective is to be the first female president of the US. Her best chance of accomplishing that goal is if McCain is elected and she can run again in 4 years. Face it, if Obama wins and is therefore the incumbent in 4 years, Hillary is pushed out 8 years and then would have to overcome both the age and gender questions. She will support Obama with token enthusiasm and hope that enough of her supporters temporarily defect to McCain to allow the fulfillment of her dreams in 4 years.

The Clintons are tarnishing the Democrat
“brand” far more effectively than the
Republican oppos ever could. They are
the gift that keeps giving. May they
live long and fruitful lives under the
“Big Tent”.

Tell me something why are they cutting the roll call short? Never was done before, are they afraid Hilary may win in the roll call, and if the delegates vote for Hilary how is it unanimous for Obama!

Equating my question regarding the logical inconsistency between the Biden and Obama message packaging is not a “madrassa smear”. Indeed, I dont watch any of those right wing fellows you mention, I am simply a thinking person that brings logic and not emotion and ad hominems to discussing political issues.
It is not a contradiction re Obama references to Indonesia re foreign policy (during the primary) and Obama running from anything “foreign” (during the general election and convention, now).
My point is that the Obama campaign made the preeminent talking point on Biden the fact that he lived in Scranton until age 10, yet wraps himself in Kansas heartland ever since the primary. Watch his first general election ad. It’s called Kansas, people. Kansas.

Belle Starr: “the Estate Benefits Recovery Act is THE major”
Oh, Google is surpressing any links to pages explaining this MAJOR fraudulent cause, according to you, for Clinton’s surplus? They have managed to eliminate any mention of it, even on senate.gov? Which also hasn’t heard of any “Estate Benefits Recovery Act”?

Nina:
I agree that a 5 year old has no say in where they are at or deciding to move, nor does a 10 year old. The first anyone can plausibly claim to have control over where they are is after they turn 18 and/or get out of high school.
That is my point on the logical inconsistency between the democratic rollout of Biden as “the man from Scranton”, even though he left, via his parents, at age 10 AND the focus on Obama’s “Kansas roots” even though Obama himself never lived in Kansas and indeed did not grow up in middle class heartland America, but instead as an expatriate in Indonesia until age 10.

Willem:
Bush II actually lived in Texas. Obama has never lived in Kansas. That is the simple, undeniable truth and the difference between the Bush II story about Texas and the Obama story about Kansas. I think Obama is smart to run with the “Kansas roots” story and obviously it is working – look at the slavish attempts to explain how Obama has “Kansas roots” despite the fact that Obama himself never lived there. Not even for a single day. The fact that Obama’s campaign is pulling it off is just more kudos to them.
However, my point is in the face of that excellent (even if not factually based regarding Obama’s actual places of residence) marketing ploy, making the #1 talking point about Biden that he grew up and was raised in Scranton, PA, despite the fact that he was only there until age 10, while Obama was in Indonesia as an expatriate from ages 5-10, is logically inconsistent with their “Kansas roots” strategy. Risky too, because somewhere sometime a MSM will ask an Obama surrogate that question.

I have never, in my life, seen a fomer president so peturlant, egotistical, and who believes our country revolves around HIM. What an embarrassment to our nation!

JG: “Obama has never lived in Kansas”
And Obama is not claiming he lived in Kansas. Your inability to understand the difference between “having Kansas roots” and “living in Kansas” does not in any way reflect on Obama. It does on you.
Dubya’s claim he is a Texan is totally fake. He’s never lived the life of a real Texan. His image as a ‘Texan cowboy’ is the pure imagery. He’s afraid of horses, doesn’t ride one, even tried to ‘milk’ a stallion once.

have never, in my life, seen a fomer president so peturlant, egotistical, and who believes our country revolves around HIM. What an embarrassment to our nation!
as opposed to a less than 1 term Senator who believes the world revolves around him?

the funny thing is even though this is getting blown out of proportion I am sure…
of course Obama will “honor” clinto with a few lines…
and this all just makes Bill Clinton look worse and makes people lean just a little more away from them and more to the future so
all in all it’s probably a good thing…that in the midst of the dems trying to honor the 40th anniversary of Bobby kennedy running and getting shot and Ted Kennedy coming to the end game of a long battle that makes any pol look like a volunteer…
we are worrying if Obama is talking enough about Bill Clinton’s legacy…
I know it sounds like an attack but …you know his worry about his dang legacy isn’t that why we got in the situation we did at the close of his administration…
I am a little disgusted.
sorry but how can you not be bothered by the fact that here he is worrying about the same stupid crap that caused him to lie on the damn witness stand and worrying about hias legacy lying to us.
I think lots of great things happened during his administration but…even Hillary must be like… Bill’s ego just makes you want to… choke the living crap out of him doesn’t it?
and again it’s not about getting Hillary through this…it’s about his legacy. ugh.

Hillary’s ultimate objective is to be the first female president of the US. Her best chance of accomplishing that goal is if McCain is elected and she can run again in 4 years. Face it, if Obama wins and is therefore the incumbent in 4 years, Hillary is pushed out 8 years and then would have to overcome both the age and gender questions. She will support Obama with token enthusiasm and hope that enough of her supporters temporarily defect to McCain to allow the fulfillment of her dreams in 4 years.
Posted by: alvinels
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(EDITED VERSION)
I am with you on your assessement of Hilliary’s plans. Should, perchance, McCain get elected and serves one term, then, of course Hilliary would run in 2012. However, she would not be running against a “black” man but against a WHITE man, and after this year, I doubt many would jump on board with her–other than her diehard supporters. So, IF McCain wins, and Hilliary runs in 2012, there is NO guarantee she would win….in fact, I would bet she would lose big time. Hilliary and Bill burnt a lot of bridges in 2008, which, of course, is unfortunate. As much as Senator Obama has to offer our country, and I believe he could and would lift our country up, my belief is he would never run for presidet again if he loses 2008. Why go though all the BS, humiliation and degradation he has had to endure, all over again?? I would be pleased and proud to have him as our President and Commander-in-Chief! However, whatever happens, Senator Obama has been gifted with many blessings and wonderful talents, that no matter what he does, he will be a great and influential man!! And, yes, he would be a great and influential President of
the USA and a strong and powerful CIC!
For those of you who think an old soldier is what it takes to be president, I would like for you to think about who would actually be the best person to lift us out of the quagmire which GWB, Cheney, McCain and the Republicans have led us to. IF you want more of the same, but worse, then go ahead and vote for McCain ……you are throwing the entire country into further destruction and eventually a third-world country. You cannot go around singing “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran and saying “sending large shipments of cigerettes to Iran is a good way to kill Iranians (yes, innocent women and children too!!)! You can’t go around you hate certain coutries, like Russia. He hates Russia so much, but evidently loves Mr. Putin as he made him the president of GERMANY at a townmeeting!! Go to You Tube and view what nuclear war looks like!! It is absolutel horrible!

Willem:
I agree that your presentation of “roots” below, bootstrapping Obama’s life history to also include his mother’s and grandmothers’s so as to give Obama kansas “roots”, is the best possible way the Obama campaign can attempt to sellthe public on the narrative that Obama is from the heartland of America.
Problem is, its simply not true. Obama did not even live in the continential United States until he was 18 or 19. You cannot contest this fact, as it is true. Shading the truth by bootstrapping the living situation of Obama’s family onto his own might work, but its still a misrepresentation.

JG: “You cannot contest this fact, as it is true.”
There you go again. I, or anybody else, have never contested it. Barack Obama has been upfront about it before you even had heard about Barack Obama.
It is you who wants to conflate “having roots” with “having lived”. You are the one who is being disingenuous about it. That’s not an ad hominem attack, it’s called straigth talk

JG
“Obama did not even live in the continential United States until he was 18 or 19″
Oh, nice one. Hawaii is not REALLY America. Because it’s not ‘continental’.
Want to redefine anything else. West Coast is not ‘really’ America? East Coast is not ‘really’ America? Only Texas is really America?

Willem:
Hawaii is not in the continental United States. Like it or not, that is the truth.
It appears that anytime a fact is presented that you do not like, you simply make fun of it instead of coming to grips with the reality.
Obama’s campaign saying he’s from the “heartland of America” (see “Kansas” ad, Obama’s first general election ad) when the man did not set foot in continental America until after he graduated high school is disingenious at best and intentionally misleading at worst.
No amount of Madison avenue spin can change the basic facts of Obama’s whereabouts the past 47 years.

JG
“Obama did not even live in the continential United States until he was 18 or 19″
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Oh, nice one. Hawaii is not REALLY America. Because it’s not ‘continental’.
Want to redefine anything else. West Coast is not ‘really’ America? East Coast is not ‘really’ America? Only Texas is really America?
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JG, I have been reading your posts and I find you to be to be overly preoccupied with Senator Obama’s “Kansas roots”. Do you know the difference between having Kansas roots and living in Kansas? What country did your family come from originally?? For example, was it London, but you never lived there? That would define YOU as having “London Roots” because that is from where your family orignated. The same applies to Senator Obama. His Kansas roots might even be fresher than yours considering his Mom lived in Kansas, as did his grandfather and grandmother. I think it is time you stopped trying to find lint wwhere there is none. And, YES, Hawaii is as much a part of the United States as California and the rest of the states that make up “THE United States of America.
Which prompts me to say, McCain was born in Panama which is not a State of the United Stats. I am curious to see how you feel about HIM not being born in the United States.

Nina:
There is no need for such hysterics, I do believe the overhyped drama robs hardcore Obama supporters of the full persuasive power of their arguments.
That aside, my family is from England, Scotland, Ireland and Germany, with a little Native American (Mohawks) after my ancestors got over to North America.
That does not mean I have European roots. I do think the Obama campaign is doing what it must to push the narrative that Obama is from the “heartland of America” (see first general election campaign ad, “Kansas”) to get Obama elected. No other strategy will work.
My point is that a strategy that claims Obama is from the “heartland of America” even though he did not set foot in continental America until he was 18 or 19 is logically inconsistent with claiming Biden is the “average Joe from Scranton PA” when Biden left PA when he was 10.
The two narratives cannot stand together under logical scrutiny, notwithstanding emotional outbursts and ad hominems.

im just kidding obammas gonna kick butt

JG “I do think claiming Obama is from the “heartland of America” is a major stretch”
Me: The major stretch is you claiming that Obama saus he is *from* Kansas. Obama doesn’t, he says he has roots in Kansas.
But your never going to acknowledge that you are misrepresenting Barack.
But I noticed a major case of cognitive dissonance when you blamed Nina of ‘hysterics’ and in the next sentence claimed, “overhyped drama robs hardcore Obama supporters of the full persuasive power of their arguments.”
There’s some major hysterics and ad hominems going on right there, but contrary to your believes, it’s coming from you.

Obama is really upset about an ad linking him to the unrepentant domestic terrorists Ayers. McCain’s campaign staff reply:
“The fact that Barack Obama chose to launch his political career at the home of an unrepentant terrorist raises more questions about Senator Obama’s judgment than any TV ad ever could,” said McCain spokesman Brian Rogers.

From PUMA:
Rezko’s Boys: Obama and Biden
It doesn’t happen often, but it’s about to happen in 2008. A convicted fixer is about to have two of his boys as the official nominees of the democratic party.
Who might those two be? Why, Obama and Biden of course.
In today’s Chicago Sun-Times it is indicated that Biden’s Midwest Campaign manager in the 1988 presidential primary, a guy who also maintained ties with Biden in the early part of his 2008 run, is a key figure in the Tony Rezko trialk. We are referring to none other than Joseph Cari.
Cari pled guilty to a federal extortion charge this year, and like his “mentor”, Tony Rezko is currently awaiting sentencing.

I do think claiming Obama is from the “heartland of America” is a major stretch at best and a intentional misrepresentation at worst.
Posted by: JG
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JG, are you STILL on Senator Obama’s Kansas roots? My, you sure are obsessed with this aren’t you. Better be careful, you’ll wake up at 3:00 AM chanting, Obama does not have Kansas roots, he was born in Hawaii and that is not part of the Continental United States, he did not live in Kansas, he did not live in Kansas! (Repeated over and over again!!) The fact is his grandparents were FROM Kansas, they LIVED there with their daughter until they all moved to Washington State and moved to Hawaii. His grandparents raised him from age 10 unti he left for college, they and his mom TAUGHT him THEIR VALUES AND THEIR WAY OF LIFE. As you know, while we might feel one way in New York City, there are people in Washington State who do not feel the same way—this is very true throughout the United States. It has a lot to do with HOW we are raised and what we are taught. Wouldn’t you agree with this?? I believe Senator Obama’s values and morals are outstanding, for instance: one house, one spouse and two beautful and lovely little girls who are loved and cherished by their parents, Barack and Michelle Obama! Nothing can replace that kind of love and commitment, NOTHING!

Why are Democrats so afraid of the Clintons?
Why do they spend so much time sucking up to the Clintons and worrying about whether they are happy or sad?
The Clintons are doing just fine without you guys….they’ve managed to rake in $100 million a year without a single blue collar voter’s help. And for all the women who are wringing their hands, please remember that Hillary didn’t seek you out until after she lost Iowa and looked to lose New Hampshire.
Until Democrats are able to let go of their fear of “what will Bill and Hillary think” and stand on their own two feet, they will continue to lose presidential elections.
McCain’s counting on it.
Posted by: Suzanne
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I don’t believe the real democrats are asking that question, “What does Hilliary want”, or “think”. Her fanatical supporters keep whimpering about how bad Hilliary had it during the campaign; what they KNOW but refuse to admit is that Hilliary and Bill, and her campaign, did a lot of negative things which begged for negative press, and those supporters blame Senator Obama and the DNC, so the press is the one asking those specific questions. As far as I am concerned, I do not care WHAT the Clintons want, Hilliary lost, Senator Obama won fair and square, period, there should be no further discussion. I saw PUMA today, what a bunch of crazies, making up all kinds of false accusations. This group is NOT democratic, they are like Cindy Shehan(sp) just seeking attention for themselves. They are not concerned about our country or the democratic party, they are only concerned about WHAT THEY WANT: A woman of president; they are blind to everything, and I mean everything else. Their attitude is everbody else is wrong and we are the ONLY ONES that are RIGHT!! In my book, they are egotists who probably don’t really care about Hilliary herself, Minnie Mouse could be running for president and they’d still behave in the same manner, as long as the candidate is female. I am certain that should the media stop asking the question, it would just slip away into oblivian. I, too, get sick and tired of the question being posed consistently. Who care what the Clintons want, this election is NOT about them and it is time they acknowledge as much! But you know the Clintons, they believe the limelight belongs to THEM!!

I think the Panama birth and raising by a US military family should be fully exposed, hand in hand with the Hawaiian birth and raising in Hawaii and Indonesia for Obama.
Full disclosure of all information is always the best policy. Please note that McCain has never shied away from the fact that he was born in the Panama US zone and was there as a young child. Obama has run as fast as he can ever since the primaries ended from any reference to his 5 years in Indonesia and attending school in Indonesia.