And What About Those 95 Democrats?
Yes, House Republicans didn’t deliver many votes and 66% of them voted against the bill.
But considering that only a dozen votes needed to switch in order to provide a different outcome, and 95 Democrats in the House voted against it, critics are now wondering why couldn’t House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., have assured a different outcome considering how important she said its passage was?
Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., told me yesterday that he felt no pressure at all to vote for the bill.
"For me it was an easy decision," Johnson said. "The bill has nothing in there that mandates workouts of these foreclosures that are pending. We have up to 5 million that are meant to occur over the next year."
"It was a Republican-caused bill and the Republicans, it looks like they failed to muster enough support to get this thing passed," Johnson told me.
What about the Dow going down 778 points?
"The stock market goes up, the stock market goes down, that’s not something that I am particularly concerned with," he said. "I believe that the market will get over this initial shock that the corporate bailout plan did not go through, and that it will recover."
- jpt
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Those 66% have woke up and realize what is going on. Kudo’s to them.
Now if they would drop Obama our country finacial woes would ease up.
Bring back Hillary and end this madness the democrats have caused.
Posted by: seah | September 30, 2008, 7:49 am 7:49 am
But didn’t McCain specifically pull his political stunt last week to talk with House Republicans and convince them to support the bill? The House GOP barely supported this bill at all. At least Pelosi got the target number of Dems to vote.
Posted by: matt | September 30, 2008, 7:49 am 7:49 am
The plan was for the Dems to bring half of the Dem House members to vote for the bill and the GOP was to bring half of the Republican House members to vote for the bill. Thus the bill would have been BIPARTISAN.
The Dems more than brought enough of the House members to vote for it. They were suppose to bring 118 members and they brought 140. The GOP could even muster their end of the bargain.
This is a REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT AND A REPUBLICAN BILL and thus REPUBLICANS should have been supporting this.
The blame is NOT with the Dems but with the GOP House who did not live up to their end of the bargain.
Posted by: Sandra | September 30, 2008, 8:00 am 8:00 am
Last week “We have a deal” Pelosi would have had 0 GOP house votes before McCain went to D.C.
Posted by: jeanette | September 30, 2008, 8:07 am 8:07 am
I am glad that the bill was voted down. We need to make the individuals within the private section and Washington responsible. I don’t feel we need to bail out the private section in this matter. There are consequences for actions that are best described by the word greed. We need to vote new people into Washington that is for the people not themselves. I am speaking about both parties. America has gotten away from working hard to get things in life and waiting to obtain items when you can afford them. We thought that everyone should have the opportunity to own a home not considering if the individual was responsible and capable in owning that home. We don’t lower our standards to accomodate people. To say this was a Republican caused bill is incorrect, last time I looked at Washington there are republicans and demcratics in house and senate. They are all responsible for this situation and you can not tell me that none of them knew what was going on in the private sector. That is why we the citizens put them up there to keep us inform not keep their friends pocket books padded.
Posted by: Judy McIntosh | September 30, 2008, 8:08 am 8:08 am
seah sez:
Bring back Hillary and end this madness the democrats have caused.
————————————–
What party does Hillary belong to now?
Posted by: Leonard Peltier | September 30, 2008, 8:15 am 8:15 am
Democrat Party is falling apart. Only 60% of Democrats supported the bill !!!
How does Pelosi think of this number?
Posted by: alex | September 30, 2008, 8:17 am 8:17 am
Boehner was to deliver 100 votes and couldn’t do it. The Dems said, okay we have the cushion.
Then the Reps showed up with 66. No wonder Boehner started to cry at the end of his speech before the vote.
I was watching on cspan and couldn’t believe my eyes.
Posted by: Leonard Peltier | September 30, 2008, 8:18 am 8:18 am
Obama’s mouth is still calling for resolve of the bail-out…but is Obama talking with fellow Democrats to bring ONLY 10 of them of the 93 or 95 that voted against the bill around….no Obama is campaigning…his campaigning is more important that the economic crisis…in fact, this is working in Obama’s favor so he will not do anything except more speeches…using the teleprompter (eye contact left to right, left to right, left to right. American’s are being blinded.
Posted by: Ann | September 30, 2008, 8:20 am 8:20 am
vs,
No, you are wrong. There has been no news about massive mortgage defaults in this country.
The problem was repackaging and reselling of mortgages for increasingly inflated value by people that had no sense of honor, that cared about keeping their jobs and stockholder happy, that created nothing but a web of lies.
The little guy who was often suckered into an ARM and who,today still wants to keep paying his mortgage is hardly the villan here. Only a rethug or FoxNews could come up with that one.
Posted by: Leonard Peltier | September 30, 2008, 8:22 am 8:22 am
My daughter just got back from Seattle Washington looking for a house to buy for her family. She said banks are not frozen there and then are not frozen in North Carolina either. The problem is that people are buying up homes $200,000.00 and then in just 3 months asking 280,000.00. That is highway robbery on American families…..what is wrong, can’t anyone see it…people are getting rich off the American public and leaving our country in a disaster. Maybe it was a very good thing that the bail-out failed….
Posted by: Anne | September 30, 2008, 8:25 am 8:25 am
The mortgages that are still going through foreclosure need to be addressed. There should be a freeze on these, or at least an emergency renegotiation of the rates to prevent as many foreclosures as possible. Work with homeowners to pay what they can afford. This does not let homeowners who purchased bad loans off the hook and does not reward bad loan practices. In the meantime it gives time for these loans to regain their value without costing taxpayers. Unfortunately this will only work if implemented soon.
Posted by: Ryan | September 30, 2008, 8:27 am 8:27 am
‘just the facts mam’
we the people know what BIPARTISAN numbers look like,
democrats delivered republicans did not.
justify and blame all u want we are no Palins
Posted by: watching | September 30, 2008, 8:28 am 8:28 am
james
yup the dems are in power but they shouldnt have to shoulder this whole thing
what ahppened to bipartisanship?
Posted by: Bhrandon | September 30, 2008, 8:28 am 8:28 am
the repubs tried to pull a fast one –by not partison voting—-they dont want to take the blame for what this administration has created—–i still say let it cure itself—if people are in homes they could not afford to start with—-move into a lesser priced home—–come on guys if you make 25 thousand a year –how the hell can you pay for a 400 thousand dollar home—someone needs to get real—–i sure as hell dont want to pay their mortgage.
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 8:32 am 8:32 am
jamescbuilder,
Clintons 1993 budget.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
I’d rather see the whole thing come down that Jeb in 2012.
Posted by: Leonard Peltier | September 30, 2008, 8:34 am 8:34 am
Problem is Pelosi.
By knowing that she does not have enough vote, why did she bring the bill to the floor for Vote.
Can’t she count?
Stop blamming republicans. She controls the house and the House agenda. She is the one playing politics.
Even during this crisis – democrarts tried to add ACORN crap.
This country is going down and no one can fix this.
Posted by: tom | September 30, 2008, 8:35 am 8:35 am
‘just the facts mam’
We the people know what BIPARTISAN numbers look like.
democrats delivered republicans did not
justify and blame all u want, we are not Palins
Posted by: watching | September 30, 2008, 8:35 am 8:35 am
The problem with this country is that a lot of the bills passed by Congress are not well thought out, include all the “what ifs” etc and it sounds like this one was a real stinker. I vote for a restructure of the banking system but in a good, complete bill–not a 15 minute thrown together piece of crap. This restructure will save jobs and the very future of Americans. No matter what bill is finally passed, John McCain does not get credit for it –before or after it passes.
Posted by: sybil30 | September 30, 2008, 8:37 am 8:37 am
It’s time this overlimit credit society get back to basics, maybe then we don’t get hiccups and need bailouts! It’s a blessing in disguise that the rich don’t get richer, the poor gets poorer with a wall street economy drive. Bailout is not the solution in the long run. We need to bring home the jobs outsourced overseas and start investing in research and development. I pity the poor rich people who needs the bailout.
Posted by: :@ | September 30, 2008, 8:37 am 8:37 am
Here’s what I know: had I gone to Vegas and “invested” a million bucks, our government would not be there to bail me out. If we are so anxious to spend another trillion, let’s take it right to those who need it most, those folks with only one home to lose on the verge of losing that home and choosing whether to buy bread and milk or gas. I do not want one penny of my tax dollars to go to Wall Street. By the time that so-called benefit trickles down to those who need it most, they will still be losing their homes. I ‘m sick of the scare tactics. Take care of the people at their level, and let Wall Street deal with its own mess…….. just like real people. And by the way, I lost some money in the stock market today, too.
Posted by: gayle | September 30, 2008, 8:39 am 8:39 am
tom,
Without the votes you suggest that Pelosi adjourn for the holiday and do nothing.
Sure, that works to.
Posted by: Leonard Peltier | September 30, 2008, 8:40 am 8:40 am
This is now “bi-partisan” Nancy Pelosi, and her “we have a deal” managed to lead this bill to failure.
She told various freshmen members of Congress, those who were voted into office during the big Dem “takeover” two years ago, that they should vote “no” on the bill. Knowing how unpopular this bill is with the American people as a whole, she didn’t want “her” people to suffer a political loss over it.
She also told members of her own committee not to vote in favor of it.
That’s the spirit of bi-partisanship we now have in Congress, and just think how much worse it will get if Dems control both houses of Congress, as well as the executive office.
Posted by: Lee | September 30, 2008, 8:41 am 8:41 am
what ever happened to superman mccain——-he could not deliver a few votes–12 I BELIEVE—-WE KNOW WHAT HIS PARTY THINKS OF HIM—
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 8:47 am 8:47 am
PUT 700 BILLION INTO ALTERNATE ENERGY AND WE WILL GET PAID BACK WITH INTEREST—LET THE WLLL STREET THIEVES DEAL WITH THEIR OWN PROBLEMS—–AND THE FOOLS THAT TRUST THEM.
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 8:50 am 8:50 am
FOR ALL YOU OUT THERE I WANT YOU TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN A PERSON WENT TO BUY A HOME HE PLAYED BY THE RULES THAT OUR POLITIONS SET OUT FOR US TO PLAY BY. SO HOW DARE YOU SCORN THE CONSUMER.FOR JUMPING THREW ALL THE HOOPS THAT OUR POLITIONS HAVE SET.THE BLAME LYES SOLY ON POLITIONS AND LAWS THEY MADE.HOW BLIND ARE YOU.STOP LETTING THEM DEVIDE US.WE ALL PLAYED BY THEIR RULES.JUST REMEMBER WHEN YOU POINT YOUR FINGER AT SOMEONE ELES,THERE ARE 3 FINGERS POINTING BACK AT YOU.SO BEFORE YOU SCORN THE PEOPLE JUST THINK OF WHO MADE THE LAWS.
Posted by: MAD AS H--L | September 30, 2008, 8:51 am 8:51 am
YES AND IDIOTS THAT DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY CAN AFFORD—-DONT LAY THE COST ON ME
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 8:53 am 8:53 am
Leonard Peltier wrote: “There has been no news about massive mortgage defaults in this country.”
I don’t know what your definition of “massive” is. But banks foreclosed on 77,295 homes in July and 90,893 homes in August; and there have been more than 770,000 foreclosures since August 2007.
In addition, in just August alone, 303,879 homeowners (1 in 416 U. S. households) received a default notice.
Posted by: James Danley | September 30, 2008, 8:53 am 8:53 am
YOU ARE NOT A HOMEOWNER IF YOU LIVE IN SOMETHING YOU CANNOT AFFORD——YOU ARE A FOOL
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 8:55 am 8:55 am
Everyone is missing the point of the need for this bailout or whatever you want to call it. It has nothing to do with the stock market or what people get paid “on Wall Street.” Banks have no capital to resume lending to anyone. That includes everyday people, small businesses, middle market businesses, large corporations, homebuyers, car buyers, etc. etc. When a lot of the average citizens don’t get their bimonthly paycheck, maybe then they will understand why we need to get this done. Wake up, if companies can’t borrow they won’t make payroll. It’s that simple. It’s the gridlock in the credit markets that is going to throw us into a deep recession and when it hits everyone in their wallet, it will be too late to do anything to prevent that from happening. Congress: show some courage and stop the self dealing before you witness a crash and burn in your constituency. You’ll lose your job anyway if you continue to dither.
Posted by: Gaye Stathis | September 30, 2008, 8:57 am 8:57 am
Sen. Barack Obama hardly emerges as a profile in courage; aides couldn’t point to a single phone call he made to an on-the-fence lawmaker, and there’s the little matter of his own advance text applauding the deal that never was.
Posted by: Cultural Amnesia | September 30, 2008, 8:58 am 8:58 am
HANG TOUGH NANCY——DO WHAT THE MAJORITY WANT—LET WALL ST DEAL WITH THEIR OWN CORRUPT PROBLEMS —MAYBE PUT A FEW IN JAIL.
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 9:00 am 9:00 am
Wow, I kinda think I have to go with the majority on this one. I mean, the banks dug themselves into a hole so why should WE dig them out? Nobody seems to care about Main Street America so why should Main Street America care about the banks and that stupid Wall Street?
Posted by: Jumpy Jpnes | September 30, 2008, 9:04 am 9:04 am
WOULD IT BE SO BAD FOR ALL IN AMERICA TO BE MIDDLE CLASS.IS THIS NOT TRULY MAKING US ALL EQUAL.LET THE RICH AND POLITIONS FEEL LIKE WE HAVE FOR SO LONG.THEY HAVE BENIFITED AND NOT DONE RIGHT FOR THE COUNTRY. THEY PROSPERED IN HAVE THEY?TIME FOR THEM TO SAVE THE STOCK MARKET THEY WORSHIP SO MUCH.THE SNAKE THEY HAVE BEEN RAISING FOR SO LONG HAS NOW TURNED AGIANST THEM.IS THIS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE HAS TOLD US WOULD HAPPEN.
Posted by: MAD AS H--L | September 30, 2008, 9:06 am 9:06 am
TO THE 95: BRAVO! And also to the others who voted NO to this rediculous idea! I urge all of you to pass only that bill which protects all of those American taxpayers with only one home to lose. Ms. Pelosi, how about some original thought for a change? The American people are demanding change. This bill is just business as usual. Let’s throw some money at the same old system and everything will be alright? If I ever overdraw my bank account, I’m the only one who gets to figure out how to get some money back into it. I’m not allowed to call Congress to do it for me… quite the opposite: I’ve still got to write that tax check! The people who messed up are the ones who need to pay. Do not reward those who made the mess. Most of them should be fined and jailed! There are some great ideas circulating among Dems & Repubs which take help to those who need it. That’s where the money should go (after we print some up, of course!)
Posted by: Gayle | September 30, 2008, 9:11 am 9:11 am
Playing politics, either presidential or party, with this bill is hugely irresponsible.
If members were voting their conscience, then great. Lots of Republicans thought the bill did too much, a good portion of Dems though it did too little. On Thursday, we might see a bill tailored wholly by Democrats sweep through — they tried bipartisanship, and the Republicans stayed away in droves (with very little in the way of counterproposal that I can see).
McCain and Obama SHOULDN’T have injected themselves into the debate, and the guilty party for landing them in the middle is overeager McCain. I mean, I truly have a difficult time seeing how McCain is forgiven for this grandstanding. Does the American taxpayer not realise that we’re going to get MORE screwed by not having an assistance bill? Don’t get fooled by idealogues, this was the best of bad choices. And in a situation like this, you don’t get to sit back and wait for a GOOD choice.
Should you be on the hook for your neighbour’s mortgage? Hell, no. But at the same time, does your neighbour’s slide into destitution help the country? Also no. All options suck, people. Pick the least damaging alternative, as unsavoury as that is.
What we need from legislators is hard work and resolve. What we need from our presidential candidates (both of whom seem to have been in constant contact with key players, but only one of whom decided to treat the crisis like his own personal drama) is a cool and steady public attitude so the American people don’t freak the hell out.
I understand standing on principle, it can be a really brave thing sometimes. But ignorant tantruming is what’s going on right now. I don’t like the medicine that’s being offered either, but I know that if I don’t take it, things get much worse down the line.
Posted by: Grace | September 30, 2008, 9:15 am 9:15 am
IF PEOPLE LIVE IN HOMES WHERE THEY CANNOT EVEN PAY THE INTEREST LET ALONE THE TAXES AND MAINTAINCE——MOVE INTO SOMETHING YOU CAN AFFORD——-I REFUSE TO PAY YOUR MORTGAGE.
LET THE BANKS DEAL WITH THEIR CORRUPTION.
Posted by: rodney | September 30, 2008, 9:16 am 9:16 am
Rodney wrote: “What ever happened to superman mccain——-he could not deliver a few votes–12…”
When Sen. McCain got into Washington DC last week it was reported that there were just FOUR House Republicans on board to vote for the bill. Just FOUR! I don’t doubt that the Republicans had the 12 votes to pass the bill, only to have Speaker Pelosi blow it with her partisan speech.
Many of you commenters just don’t get it. For Conservatives it is a very difficult pill to swallow to vote for a government bailout. That is almost like asking for you Liberals to vote for parental consent before teenage girls can have an abortion. But the 12 were ready to sellout their convictions until Speaker Pelosi raised the ante on swallowing the pill. Then they changed their mind.
Incidentally, THERE WAS NO DEAL that so many Republicans would agree. The Democrats knew that in the beginning their were only four House Republicans supporting the rescue package. It was the Democrats who decided that they had to have a “bipartisan” vote because they wanted to cover their behinds should this rescue package fail to work. If they really believed in the rescue package they should have had 12 of their own House members to change their vote.
Posted by: James Danley | September 30, 2008, 9:21 am 9:21 am
Yes, and how about some investigating regarding how Obama, during his much-touted “Community Organizing” days, worked with Acorn and was a tactics trained activist who worked to apply pressure to get banks and lending companies to extend mortgages and loans to low-income people who could not afford the properties they were buying?
Posted by: Lee | September 30, 2008, 9:22 am 9:22 am
Pelosi said she would bring 140 votes to this Republican Bill and she did. The House Republicans did not bring the number in they said they would. It appears the only “leader” of the House Republicans is someone who voted against the Bill along with many others because they all got their feelings hurt by an ill-timed partisan speech. Congress is no place for the emotionally deprived, short-sighted, thin-skinned advocate for the PEOPLE!
Posted by: Paige | September 30, 2008, 9:26 am 9:26 am
I HOPE FOR THIS COUNTRY IS THIS TREASON LAWS AGAINST CLINTION.HE SIGHNED NAFTA DID HE NOT.I DO NOT LIKE THIS BUSH,BUT HE IS DEALING WITH LAWS SIGHN BEFORE HIM.NOW I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO THINK SENCEABLY.BEFORE NAFTA THIS COUNTRY WAS PROSPEROUS WAS IT NOT.THE BANKING IND.WAS GOOD ,THE HOUSING WAS GOOD,THE UNEMPLOYMENT WAS DOWN,THEN BILL CLINTON SIGHNED NAFTA AND THE JOBS DISAPPERED.PEOPLE LIVED OFF SAVINGS AND MINUIM WAGE JOBS,NOW THEIR SAVINGS IS GONE,AND HOMES ARE LOST.BILL CLITION IS NEEDEDIN JAIL FOR SELLING OUT OUR BEST KEPT SECRIT.WE NEED TO SHOW ALL POLITIONS THAT THEY WILL ONLY DO WHAT THE MAJORTY OF US WANT.TREASON LAWS OF THE PAST OUR ONLY HOPE.
Posted by: MAD AS H--L | September 30, 2008, 9:27 am 9:27 am
Gaye Stathis has it right. This is not an issue that is going to ding Wall Street bankers and leave everyone else unscathed. It does not work like that.
If the banks fail, money slows down. People will not get paid. Companies will cull their workforces because they no longer have the funds to make payroll. People will massively curtail their budgets, to try and stay solvent. The businesses that have fired much of their staff will then be faced with even LESS money coming in, as consumers stop showing up.
This is familiar, this is how a depression works. How people have somehow gotten fooled into thinking that rejecting a bailout will result in “justice”, ie defaulted mortgage-holders and evil bankers getting turned out of their homes, while the guy who saved his money wisely gets to stay put — this is NOT how things work, at all.
I’m starting to think that the past few decades have not only made people unwilling to make sacrifices to improve the country’s situation, but that large portions of the population are now incapable of thinking of personal sacrifice and patriotism in the same concept.
Are the American public no longer able to make reasoned decisions and accept that sometimes the less attractive choice, the one that is less personally advantageous, might just be the necessary one?
Posted by: Grace | September 30, 2008, 9:30 am 9:30 am
Mad as H–L wrote: “WOULD IT BE SO BAD FOR ALL IN AMERICA TO BE MIDDLE CLASS.”
Jumpy Jpnes wrote: “…the banks dug themselves into a hole so why should WE dig them out? Nobody seems to care about Main Street America so why should Main Street America care about the banks and that stupid Wall Street?”
The middle class does not create jobs. If everyone was middle class there would be no employers. And just in case you still don’t get it…no employers, no employees. Everyone would be either self-employed or unemployed.
The rescue plan IS ABOUT Main Street America. You may not accept trickle down economics, but it is very real. Without a rescue package, you will witness first hand just how well it works. The only difference is wealth “trickles” down but loss of wealth “gushes” down.
Some food for thought: If your employer goes under, where does that leave you and your co-workers?
Posted by: James Danley | September 30, 2008, 9:41 am 9:41 am
“Even during this crisis – democrarts tried to add ACORN crap.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 9:43 am 9:43 am
Judy McIntosh: You got it right Darlin’. The congress of the United States of America is soley responsible for this mess. They take an oath to protect and serve us when they take office and they have done neither. They keep us fighting with one other on these blogs and other media venues soley to distract us from what’s really going on in Washington. There were a few who silently raised the alarm of this pending disaster but certainly not loud enough. Did any one hear Paul Revere riding thru your town yelling the greed merchants are coming, the greed merchants are coming? I think not!! I have not heard one of those traitors take one bit of responsibillity for any of this, have you? Bush is a total moron and I’ll admit I voted for him twice and I”m embarrased by that, but I fear that if Obama is elected we will be going straight from the frying pan directly into the fire. “GOD HELP US” no one else has!
Posted by: bombem | September 30, 2008, 9:49 am 9:49 am
sad sad sad.. the socialists (once known as Democrats)have hood winked us again, they have lied,& deceived us one time two many,the CEO’s of freddy and fanny should be held accountable, along with the socialist politicians who received large sums of campaign money
Posted by: ray sternberg | September 30, 2008, 9:49 am 9:49 am
Pelosi knew when she gave that speech on Bush that she did not have the votes to pass the bill. Bringing the bill up for a vote knowing it would fail was a stunt.
The purpose of the stunt was to cover the fact that the democratically controled fannie mae and freddie mac caused this problem. The Clinton administration’s idea to give loans to people who could not repay them – greatly increasing the size of fannie mae is what caused this.
People want to claim that it was slack enforcement – which is partly to blame, but the real fault is that we have boat loads of fail loans. Those loans are the direct action of democratic pandering and looting of these systems.
Posted by: lately | September 30, 2008, 9:49 am 9:49 am
“I fear that if Obama is elected we will be going straight from the frying pan directly into the fire.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 9:54 am 9:54 am
SUSPEND MARK-TO-MARKET.
DROP THE FED RATE TO 1.5% OR LOWER.
You will see an immediate injection of liquidity that would relax the credit markets long enough to come up with a better solution. These two things can be done NOW, without congressional approval. It is insane that they are not doing it.
Posted by: Blo | September 30, 2008, 9:58 am 9:58 am
The job of the majority leader in the House is to pass legislation. Period. So of course this failure belongs to Nancy Pelosi.
It’s obvious that Pelosi not only failed to pass the bailout, but she did everything possible to derail it for partisan political purposes.
If the market crisis is truly as dire as the “experts” claim, then why did she, Harry Reid and the Democrats spend so much time playing politics, shifting blame, trying to pad the bill with earmarks and slush funds for ACORN and other left-wing allies, and disrupting the negotiations? And then when the bill failed…she, Barney Frank and the rest went out on national TV and CRACKED JOKES.
Either Pelosi and the Democrats were so blinded by partisan hatred and childish spite that they were incapable of reaching across the aisle in a time of national crisis…or they intended that the bill should fail and the crisis continue so they can exploit it for political gain. There is no other alternative.
Assuming, of course, that the crisis is truly that bad, and the whole bailout isn’t simply an attempt to let Wall Street fat cats off the hook for their greed…and Congressional Democrats off the hook for their stupidity.
Posted by: Wes S. | September 30, 2008, 9:59 am 9:59 am
Barney Frank is mad because the GOP wouldn’t bail out his boyfriend at Fannie May. It will be interesting when the investigations start being made public.
Posted by: CIA | September 30, 2008, 10:01 am 10:01 am
Oh now we want to talk about the democrats? I mean house republicans did not like this plan from the word “bailout”. just to make the task a bit harder for Boehner they were ignored on negotiations till McCain came to town. Then their idea of insurance (to limit the exposure of taxpayers) was not even put into the bill as a requirement, they were called unpatriotic because democrats did not tell them of a meeting (supposedly on accident), and then the cherry on top was Pelosi spitting in their eyes.
Yet where were democrats even trying to get the bill passed? What was it, 5 committee chairs voted against it? Vulnerable democrats were told they didn’t have to vote for it. There was no whipping of votes what so ever and thats backed up by Clyburn (as Pelosi never told him to). Obama’s co-chair voted against it. obama himself by his own admission did nothing at all to help the bill pass and it seems his only involvement was to spring the ambush on house Republicans at the white house meeting. He never called any republicans, he never even called any wavering democrats.
If the democrats think its so important, perhaps they should act like it.
Posted by: Zaggs | September 30, 2008, 10:06 am 10:06 am
It’s funny how last week, most ofthe public was against the bailout, and now most are complaining that the bailout wasn’t passed. Which do you want?
Me, I’m content. Financial securities were overvalued, so they need to come down, and we were dealing more credit than we could back up, so it needs to be less freely available. I guess for the time being we’ll only be able to buy things we can actually afford. Imagine that?
Posted by: Daniel C | September 30, 2008, 10:07 am 10:07 am
“I believe that the market will get over this initial shock that the corporate bailout plan did not go through, and that it will recover.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 10:09 am 10:09 am
The size and scope of the problem was not adequately explained to the public in the time allowed, nor by anyone talented enough to do so. From what I can gather, this problem got where it is by multiple market and legislative action over possibly a couple of decades. For those who actively followed the market and politics during that time, the decision could probably be made easier. For those of us that may just be trying to comprehend what is going on, it is like a cram session for a final exam.
The record of bailouts so far this year that were supposed to work, are lasting a shorter amount of time between bailouts, with a higher dollar amount each time.
In the failure of this particular bill, whether you are for it or against it, while not all Pelosi’s fault, she certainly did not help or persuade. It was a lack of good faith on her part. She wanted to be able to claim a great bi-partisian victory while simultaneously making sure everyone knew who was at fault according to Nancy. The addition of the Congressman going on NPR to claim the passage of this bill was going to be used againt Republicans this fall was a compounding factor. It was almost like they just couldn’t wait to gloat.
The sad fact is, most voters do not pay attention, catch short news blubs, and while they trash Congress, believe their own Congressman does a good job (same with schools) The disconnect is disheartening.
We need some turnover. We need some really good reporting also. I would watch a miniseries based on actually news reporting and supporting documents going back over the last 30 years.
People who took out mortgages, especially with no vested interest should not be helped. The gamble was that the market would continue to go up.
Posted by: Rebecca | September 30, 2008, 10:10 am 10:10 am
Barney Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, and Obama were warned many times about the inherent dangers in Fannie and Freddie. They had lovers and campaign lenders in the these companies and conflict of interest was rampant. The press gave them a free ride because the risk seemed low enough. But now we know these companies as Fannie May I and Freddie Cruger for what they have done to our country. Pelosi says Dems bare no responsibility. She’s either a lunatic or a liar. You be the judge
Posted by: freemort | September 30, 2008, 10:11 am 10:11 am
“People who took out mortgages, especially with no vested interest should not be helped. The gamble was that the market would continue to go up.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 10:18 am 10:18 am
What if voting down the bailout bill was the right thing to do? What if partisan politicians actually saved us from worse mistakes?
But what if the bailout, as originally proposed and in its latest incarnation, would spend $700 billion of taxpayers’ money and actually make the economy worse? Believe it or not, there is good evidence this may happen. The inflationary prospects of the bailout price tag may lead to spikes in oil and crop prices that could hit ordinary Americans in their cars and on their kitchen tables. And government purchases of financial assets could ironically further constrain credit through causing write-downs on even the balance sheets of financial firms not participating in the bailout by worsening the effects of mark-to-market accounting rules.
An Associated Press story paraphrases American Enterprise Institute scholar Vincent Reinhart, a former Federal Reserve monetary affairs director, as saying that “if the auctions set too low a price for mortgage-related assets, other institutions with bad debt may be forced to take the distressed valuation onto their books under mark-to-market accounting rules.” Similarly a Washington Post story by financial reporter Neil Irwin says that the purchase could force more regional banks to write their assets down. Thus, regional banks as well as big banks will be subject to credit constraints.
Posted by: ic | September 30, 2008, 10:19 am 10:19 am
As Pelosi railed and cried against the Republicans, implicit in this is the assumption that the bill coming up for a vote would be a solution. It was the behavior of somone on the losing end of a position they favor, not one they oppose. Why then didn’t she press her own troops on board? Are we supposed to simultaneously believe she is competent and incompetent? Powerful and powerless? Ept and inept?
Posted by: Broadsword | September 30, 2008, 10:20 am 10:20 am
Mark-to-Market
“Because the mark-to-market rules require writedowns of even performing loans based on the last sale of similar assets, good banks holding mortgages that haven’t been impaired often have to adjust their books based on another bank’s sale — even if they plan to hold their loans to maturity. And because the rules are tied to solvency requirements from the government’s bank regulators, banks lose “regulatory capital,” even if the loss is only on paper. Thus, in the scramble to conserve capital, financial firms have less money to lend.”
Mark-to Market is a post-Enron cure, Freddie and Fannie are a low income home ownerships cure. Congress has created many more Enrons with its cures. Seems Congress should get out of the healing business.
Is it possible that this bailout an incompetent Treasury Secretary’s over reaction when he sees his own portfolio spilling blood? After all Leahman Brothers CEO was reduced from a billionaire to a 50-millionaire when Treasury refused to bail it.
Posted by: ic | September 30, 2008, 10:23 am 10:23 am
“What if voting down the bailout bill was the right thing to do?”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 10:23 am 10:23 am
12 of 37 Democrats on Barney Frank’s own committee voted against the package & he has the gall to call out Republicans?
Pelosi announces a meeting for leaders only then gets on TV to call the Republicans who were not invited unpatriotic.
Peolsi is willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of her fellow citizens’ jobs in a down economy to make political points and the uncurious mainstream media lets her get away with it.
Posted by: Stick | September 30, 2008, 10:25 am 10:25 am
Even Jesse Jackson Jr., part of Obama’s “inner circle”, voted against this measure.
Posted by: Neo | September 30, 2008, 10:26 am 10:26 am
“Why then didn’t she press her own troops on board?”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 10:26 am 10:26 am
I have to chuckle when I see regular people who are not in the stock market whining about the demise of the stock market like pavlov’s dog (Trust me the stock market will be here 100 years from now and everyone who jumps out now will be losing a lot of value)
Businesses don’t get their payrolls from credit institutions and banks are not being prevented from giving businesses their money so they can certainly make payroll. However, if your company uses credit to make its payroll, how foolish are you to work there?
The issue at hand is really about the huge Job losses that have killed the middle class and the college educated.
Simply put, what worthwhile good paying jobs are available to a skilled worker (College or Vocational trained) inside of our country?
College students are in a panic because they don’t have any job choices that will allow them to pay their student loans. On the other hand, new students will be hard pressed to even get a college loan.
I suggest military service and the GI bill for those unlucky masses who are deserving, but cannot afford tuition or Community College for those who are unwilling or unable to serve in the military.
This problem is nothing new, we all voted (well 30 percent of us did) and chose leaders and policies that put us on this crash course and it is only getting worse.
In the future I would say that we can expect to see a lot more foreclosures, hyperinflation, and generally a sour economy until we either vote for an end to globalization and start making it in our own country. Made in USA will improve our quality of life since the dollar may be worthless on the currency market, but we will still accept it here.
But what about Globalization?
Who cares if we have access to cheap products, since our weak dollar can’t pay for them they are no longer cheap to the US Dollar.
If the Democrats come into power (and it looks like they might) they will surely start some new, big government projects that will end our republic and turn us into a socialized country, but at least there will be a chicken in every pot.
Frankly, I have to laugh at all the Politically Correct pseudo Americans who wandered aimlessly away from their civic duties and are now wondering why Uncle Sam isn’t going to take care of them because he has gone bankrupt.
Posted by: Gregor Mendel | September 30, 2008, 10:29 am 10:29 am
“12 of 37 Democrats on Barney Frank’s own committee voted against the package & he has the gall to call out Republicans?”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 10:34 am 10:34 am
find one Republican who voted against this bill who will publicly admit that he/she “switched” their vote from yes to no because of Nancy Pelosi’s speech (that talked about how Bush’s policies contributed to the situation we are in today)… yeah right. NONE of the GOP “no votes” ever changed. At LEAST 60% of the Dems supported it. A total dissholveled breaking of ranks and leadership in the GOP, where no one’s leading the Titanic anymore. What? Is that an iceberg up ahead?!
Posted by: Anthony | September 30, 2008, 10:35 am 10:35 am
Pelosi stated early on, and didn’t hide the fact, that this bill would have to be bipartisan. Meaning that it would be voted in by a majority of Democrats and Republicans. That the bill wasn’t even coming up for a vote until this was assured.
Well, as we can see, one side delivered.
Whether you agree with the bill or not, you have to put the blame (or credit) on the Republicans for this one. And that includes Bush, who has lost so much credibility that when he cries out “crises” no one, including his own party, believes him.
Posted by: Shelley | September 30, 2008, 10:53 am 10:53 am
Too much credit being doled out is what got us here. I don’t want to spend $700 billion of taxpayer money just so banks can continue to make more loans. I also don’t want to bail out Main Street folks who bought homes they can’t afford. I don’t feel sorry for Wall Street or Main Street – and to spend money on a bailout just so more loans will be made is just postponing the inevitable. America has hummed along for 40 years on credit; time to pay the piper.
Posted by: marylou | September 30, 2008, 10:59 am 10:59 am
“And that includes Bush, who has lost so much credibility that when he cries out “crises” no one, including his own party, believes him.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 11:00 am 11:00 am
Another cheap political stunt on behalf of Non-Speaker Pelosi. The Dems control Congress and don’t need a single Republican vote to pass this Bailout. So much for unity in the Dem Party. I would like to hear Jesse Jackson Jr’s reason for opposing this bill: perhaps lack of funds for ACORN.
Posted by: ScottsdaleAl | September 30, 2008, 11:17 am 11:17 am
Maybe the Democrats, if there are any left, should put impeachment BACK “on the table”, before Bush seizes the Treasury in some “emergency” move.
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 11:18 am 11:18 am
“I would like to hear Jesse Jackson Jr’s reason for opposing this bill: perhaps lack of funds for ACORN.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 11:21 am 11:21 am
The blame is on the Republicans? Step away from the koolaid.
Dodd and Frank, and Obama through ACORN caused the mess to begin with. Doesn’t matter if you want to banter that point or just plain lie, it’s registered fact. NOW to get out of the mess they made, they want Republicans to vote with them, why? Because they don’t want to put their at risk democrats in a precarious situation on election day. Now, you tell me, what’s NON PARTISAN about that? AND WHY should Republicans put themselves on the block to help assure that the democrats don’t lose any on election day? I think your koolaid is spiked.
Posted by: Brenda | September 30, 2008, 11:21 am 11:21 am
In another thread here, jpt quotes Obama’s PLANNED (prepared) remarks yesterday as saying:
“Democrats and Republicans in Washington have agreed on an emergency rescue plan that is our best and only way to prevent an economic catastrophe.”
Does this not suggest that Pelosi/Obama actually anticipated that the abomination would PASS the House?
How dumb and crooked ARE these people?
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 11:34 am 11:34 am
So let’s see:
- Pelosi brings the bill to a vote, yet no speaker does that unless they know they have the votes beforehand.
- She has at least five different Democratic committee chairman vote no and at least 12 Democrats on Frank’s committee vote no.
- More than 90 Democrats in total vote no. ALL of them are in tight races or traditional Republican districts.
- The bill fails, and when Republicans tried to ask for extended time to twist some arms the Democrats, INCLUDING BARNEY FRANK, screamed for “Regular Order”, meaning no special cirumstances should be allowed. Pelosi agreed, closing the vote.
Conclusion: Pelosi did not want the bill to pass. Why? A poor economy is good for Obama, that’s why. Simultaneously she made Bush look like an even bigger fool (if that’s possible) and blamed the poor economy on House Republicans. Pelosi is willing to send the country headlong into a depression as long as it makes Obama look good. Democrats, what has happened to the party of JFK?
Posted by: Woody | September 30, 2008, 11:51 am 11:51 am
“More than 90 Democrats in total vote no. ALL of them are in tight races or traditional Republican districts.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 11:54 am 11:54 am
“Pelosi is willing to send the country headlong into a depression as long as it makes Obama look good. Democrats, what has happened to the party of JFK?”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 11:57 am 11:57 am
Bottom line: What passes for political leadership in this country is a national disgrace.
As a sign of good faith, how about every member of Congress returning the campaign contributions received from every troubled entity causing this crisis. It’s only a few million $$ but I’m sure the Treasury would welcome it with open arms. Are you holding your breathe??
Connect the campaign dollar “dots” and you’ll see why select members of Congress have taken their respective positions regarding the bailout. Get the picture.
Posted by: ScottsdaleAl | September 30, 2008, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm
Who is going to pay for foreclosure workouts. Not the taxpayer stupid! The voters will not allow that. Just like we won’t pay for a wall street bailout.
Posted by: nobozons | September 30, 2008, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm
“Bottom line: What passes for political leadership in this country is a national disgrace.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm
A Republican caused bill? Who, back in the 90′s, decided it would be “nice” to allow lenders to loosen up requirements for loans? Do the names Barney Franks, Maxine Watters, Chris Dodd, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc. come to mind? Your party thought it would be a grand idea to let people, who couldn’t afford it, to get home loans and not worry about paying it back. In the name of “fairness”. You guys brought this mess on and now we all have to clean it up. Repeal the CRA and hopefully banks will be able to stop giving loans to people who can’t pay for them.
Posted by: Timmeh | September 30, 2008, 12:12 pm 12:12 pm
“The stock market goes up, the stock market goes down, that’s not something that I am particularly concerned with.”–Spoken by a man with no 401k
Posted by: Stephen Gianelli | September 30, 2008, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm
The Congressional Black Caucus overwhelmingly voted “no” on the bill, effectively killing it! Where was Obama’s leadership? The CBC has been virulently following and supporting Obama. They will do everything Obama tells them to do. But Obama DIDN’T get the CBC to vote for the bailout bill. Why is that? Could it be because the more people who get destroyed financially, the better it is for Obama. You can only conclude that Obama didn’t want this bill to pass because he benefits politically from the economic collapse.
Posted by: OxyCon | September 30, 2008, 12:44 pm 12:44 pm
LOL!
Rep. Johnson might as well have said:
“Let them eat cake!”.
Posted by: jeanneB | September 30, 2008, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm
I’m surprised to see even official party media asking why the Dems didn’t get this done. Questioning their masters? So brave!
Posted by: David Astroturf | September 30, 2008, 1:26 pm 1:26 pm
jpt writes:
“What about the Dow going down 778 points?”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 1:40 pm 1:40 pm
It was a bad bill. The GOP would have done better to have said they wouldn’t vote for a flawed bill, instead of whining about Pelosi.
This was in the bill:
SEC. 202. INCREASED FLEXIBILITY FOR THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD TO ESTABLISH RESERVE REQUIREMENTS.
Section 19(b)(2)(A) of the Federal Reserve Act (12 U.S.C. 461(b)(2)(A)) is amended–
(1) in clause (i), by striking `the ratio of 3 per centum’ and inserting `a ratio of not greater than 3 percent (and which may be zero)’; and
(2) in clause (ii), by striking `and not less than 8 per centum,’ and inserting `(and which may be zero),’.
That means that each depository institution could maintain zero reserves against its transaction accounts, starting 10/1/2008.
Does that get your interest? It should.
There are many other provisions in this measure that I di not like, and my Dem Rep. in the House voted against this bill as well.
It was not a good bill.
Posted by: Nan | September 30, 2008, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm
Oxycon– The Dems took out a lot of junk in the bailout agreement in order to garner Republican votes on this. The Dems wanted the bill to fail, so they could blame the Republicans, then go in make their original bill with ACORN and other Democrat lobbyist groups included, pass it and claim victory.
Posted by: S Adams | September 30, 2008, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm
“They have roused the drowsy beast of popular anger at last, and no one can say what might happen next. Probably nothing — or rather, more of the same, in some form or another. But still, it is good to see the icy beads of panic dotting the brows of elites who have inflicted and/or countenanced so much death, destruction, terror and degradation in the past few years.
“Today they have suffered a very rare defeat in the relentless, remorseless class war they have been waging against us for decades. And that it is something to celebrate — at least for one night.”
– Chris Floyd
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 1:44 pm 1:44 pm
There is no “moving into a smaller home” when all your cash is tied up in a house that’s lost 20% of its value since you signed escrow.
Banks did not shoot drugs to convince themselves to make these loans: In many cases they were pressured by “community activists” who threatened to sue under CRA unless they loosened lending requirements.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are directly responsible for their own demise but Congress, especially Dodd and Frank, gave them an heroic push off the ledge. Since Bush took office he urged Congress to rein them in: Frank and Dodd gave him the finger.
Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, has the duty to find the votes to pass legislation she sends to the floor or pull it and renegotiate. Little known fact: When there’s a contentious but important bill the Speaker lines up votes to pass it PLUS a pool of “alternative jurors” willing to vote for it if needed. That way if someone pledged to vote for the bill bails at the last second the Speaker can pull in extra votes as needed. Pelosi didn’t do that: She lined up a bare majority of Democrats and said any more would have to come from the Republicans. Then she insulted the GOP as if to make sure they didn’t try any harder to pass the bailout than she had. Either she’s stupid, didn’t care if it passed, or is both.
Posted by: Orion | September 30, 2008, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm
there was a bipartisan consensus to vote NO! and a bipartisan leadership for wanting this bill come pass. it’s the fault of the leadership for not communicating to not only their respective partisan house members, but to the american people as to why it was so urgent to compromise and get this bill passed. mccain or obama should have faught more to encourage, but with obama he was AT LEAST correct as to not put himself into this mess because it would of caused a huge distraction as proven by mccain, hence maybe a LARGE part of the reason why this failed to go through the way it showed.
Posted by: gluv | September 30, 2008, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm
“Then [Pelosi] insulted the GOP as if to make sure they didn’t try any harder to pass the bailout than she had. Either she’s stupid, didn’t care if it passed, or is both.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 1:57 pm 1:57 pm
“why it was so urgent to compromise and get this bill passed”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm
When Bush proclaims “Congress must ACT”, without even sounding as though he means, let alone expects, it …
you gotta wonder whether he doesn’t mean “act” in its Reaganesque “let’s-pretend” sense.
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm
McCain demonstrated, once again, his political courage by directly engaging in a personally risky effort to pass bi-partisan legislation wildly unpopular with the voters. Passage could only occur IF both he and Obama took equal hands-on roles, assuring at the same time that neither party pointed blame or claimed credit. He invited Obama to equally participate and Obama and the democrats said “no”, seeing it was to their partisan advantage to keep the economy roiling. Obama and his election first, the economy second.
The democrats are far, far more to blame for this sub-prime mortgage crisis than past republican presidents, the past republican congressional majority, or Bush. Yet, McCain said, “Fix the blame later, fix the problem now”. Obama, and Pelosi, using the Big Lie technique, sought a partisan advantage at all costs, whatever the economic fall-out. They blamed republicans for the crisis and signalled their latest campaign position. Perhaps the defeated bill was not the best option–maybe the next proposal will be much worse–but the opportunity for true bi-partisan effort may well have come and gone and with it our economy. Ironically, McCain takes a hit in the polls and Obama benefits.
When it comes to leadership, character, and courage, it looks like the voters are about to get what they deserve–a Congress led by the likes of Pelosi(two heartbeats away from the presidency)and Obama, who leads by the theory of “present” and unaccounted for.” May God help us all get through the next four years.
Posted by: M burke | September 30, 2008, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm
Pelosi allowed the 95 most-contested-races Dem members to vote against the bill and planned to run ads against the Repubs who voted for it. With move-on.org running ads blaming McCain-Bush for the meltdown they covered all they’re bases.
Repubs should insist that Frank and Dodd resign their committee chairs before they sign the deal.
Posted by: George | September 30, 2008, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm
@ belle star…
the urgency is the fact that history DOES repeat itself when left ignored. all you have to do is read about how the “great depression” came into manifestation in the 1st place….it’s virtually identical to whut’s happening now and mostly due to the government ineffectiveness to calm the stock market. when the stock market crashed in 1929..it too slightly bounced back that next day, but it consistently spiraled a down trend like it’s going now with banks swallowed up and eventually forcing things that effected wallstreet affecting extreme hardships mainstreet and globally…it’s not going to be immediate, but a gradual fall out until everything is completely bleek.
we’re going into the same trend as back then and doing absolutely NOTHING is the worst thing to do….we have to come together and make some sort of compromise, and adjust the bill as it goes along….something is always better than nothing
Posted by: gluv | September 30, 2008, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm
Oh them.
Posted by: Mack | September 30, 2008, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm
“Pelosi allowed the 95 most-contested-races Dem members to vote against the bill … “
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 2:19 pm 2:19 pm
“we have to come together and make some sort of compromise, and adjust the bill as it goes along….something is always better than nothing”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 2:23 pm 2:23 pm
@ M BURKE
mccain, mistakenly, put himself out there for political points with nothing to show for it. by putting himself out there he became part of the distraction and adding on into this spin circus that’s going on right now.
obama, on the other hand was smart enough to stray away from the bargaining of the bill, because presidential politics in such a urgent situation as this one is always a no-no. with that said, obama has some fault with this because he could of done better in reaching his own constituents in making this deal work. this isn’t or suppose to be a republican deal or democratic deal, but a bipartisan deal because every american regardless of party affiliation are getting affected by this
Posted by: gluv | September 30, 2008, 2:27 pm 2:27 pm
“Something is NOT necessarily better than nothing, especially when the most faked-up election in the history of the US is in the mix.
Not everything can BE “compromise”d. Getting Dodd and Frank and Pelosi-Kerry-Obama out of their “leadership” positions would be a good start, though.”
and that’s why our government is such a disaster. nobody WANTS to work together. and you wonder why people lack trust with this president and this congress. regular people are struggling and have been struggling for years now, and we keep hoping that it will get better but each year it gets WORST. and our government just sit there and do nothing about it, because of this ideaological partisanship…..
Posted by: gluv | September 30, 2008, 2:32 pm 2:32 pm
That’s only one guy, but reportedly, Democrats were being told on the House floor that it was OK to vote “no”. 12 people on Barney Frank’s committee voted no, and Frank reportedly did nothing to change their minds. A news story today stated that most of those voting “no” were in vulnerable districts.
This vote was a setup to make Republicans look bad. Pelosi wanted total buy-in from the Republicans, but Democrats were given a pass. Pelosi didn’t care about passing the economic relief bill.
Barack Obama apparently did nothing to get this passed. There were several Representatives from Illinois that he is close to who voted “no”.
Posted by: George | September 30, 2008, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm
“regular people are struggling and have been struggling for years now, and we keep hoping that it will get better but each year it gets WORST. and our government just sit there and do nothing about it, because of this ideaological partisanship…..”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 2:47 pm 2:47 pm
Is this arguing about who is to blame for setting the ship’s course while the Titanic continues to steam toward disaster? If the politicans are currently so engaged, do we citizens and voters have to be? Is yesterday’s news more important now than tomorrow’s solution? What is the best idea out there to go along with, like it or not?
Posted by: M burke | September 30, 2008, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm
The Republicans didn’t write the bill. Paulson did. It was a crappy bill, and most of the Republicans voted against it.
Why couldn’t Pelosi get enough Democratic votes? Because the bill stinks on ice and most Americans are opposed to it. Anyone who votes for it is going to pay a price. That, and obviously her own party doesn’t have much respect for her as Speaker (which is certainly understandable).
What’s funny is that congress says it’s a n emergency to get this bill passed, but then they don’t pass it. And, then they they say they’re going to take the next few days off and not reconvene until Thursday. So, obviously it’s not really an emergency. Since everyone pretty much agrees the plan stinks, why vote for it at all? Let the Treasury inject money into the financial system like they’ve been doing(and did again today) and forget the bill altogether.
Posted by: EyeDoc | September 30, 2008, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm
“… the Titanic continues to steam toward disaster?”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 3:06 pm 3:06 pm
“So, obviously it’s not really an emergency.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 3:13 pm 3:13 pm
@ george,
that’s right…obama SHOULD have done more even his own people, jesse jackson jr., who works in his campaign voted no!
with that said, mccain had NOBODY from arizona supporting this bill, and whut’s so said is that mccain was under MORE pressure than obama in trying to get people together to get this bill passed as proof of his “leadership” and even his campaign yesterday was claiming “victory” for reaching an agreement before it got rejected…then flipped flopped stating he NEVER wanted this bill passed while in the meantime mccain all this morning is stating the exact opposite.
sometimes keeping your distance is a GOOD thing….this is something the house of representatives have to no without any outside interference
Posted by: gluv | September 30, 2008, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm
This isn’t that complicated. The Dems got exactly the number of votes they wanted. If at least 0.5 of the House Republicans had voted for the bill, that would have neutralized the issue. The Republicans wanted the bill to pass, but they wanted to be able to hang the whole thing on Bush/Pelosi/Reid/Paulson/Obama.
I realize some people deeply disagree with Pelosi, but it looks to me like she played this perfectly.
Posted by: Will | September 30, 2008, 3:28 pm 3:28 pm
The cause of these problems is that the government, via the Community Reinvestment Act, enouraged Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac etc. to make loans to people who couldn’t afford to pay them back, particularly poor minorities. The goal was to increase home ownership, but it obviously doesn’t do anybody a favor to have banks lending out money to people who can’t pay the mortgage.
This is not a failure of the free markets. This is a failure of the government. And, as far as I can see, there’s nothing in the Paulson plan that will alleviate the problem. If Congress comes up with another bad plan, it will be voted down again. Most Americans are against the plan so there’s a definite disadvantage to anyone in congress who’s voting for it.
Posted by: EyeDoc | September 30, 2008, 4:08 pm 4:08 pm
This bailout bill is akin to giving the arsonists that started the fire, 700 billion gallons of petrol to extinguish said fire.
Giving ACORN ” bailout profits” yet to be realized makes my point.
I praise every member of Congress that voted against this bailout.
Again, I repeat – What passes for political leadership in this country is a damn disgrace.
Posted by: ScottsdaleAl | September 30, 2008, 5:31 pm 5:31 pm
C’mon, Eyedoc. You’re making everyone who reads this page dumber. please note that neither Fannie Mae nor Freddie Mac originate loans. Further, most (probably closer to all, but I don’t have the numbers handy) of sub-prime mortgages sold in the last 10 years were sold by institutions who are not subject to the CRA.
The bottom line is mortgage-backed securities were big money-makers, and you can’t sell mortgage-backed securities if you don’t have mortgages to bundle together. This is a case of pure, unfettered, short-term driven capitalism collapsing in on itself. Which was brought on by a) real estate prices leveling off, then falling, b) a decrease in disposable income, in part because of c) an increase in inflation, and d) an increase in unemployment.
The sudden “crisis” actually started in 2005. But now that its affecting the banks and brokerages who have been whistling merrily on their way to their doom for the past 3 years, the federal government (a wholly owned subsidiary of those banks and brokerages) is trying to hustle their way out.
Posted by: Will | September 30, 2008, 6:06 pm 6:06 pm
I am proud of my congressman, in fact if he had voted for the original bill he would not be getting my vote. While the bill yesterday has some improvements —
ACORN and folks like BARACK OBAMA not being rewarded for the attempt to steal more taxpayer funds. And Harry Reid’s sneaking a ban on shale into the bill. An Nancy Pelosi trying to PORK it up even further. The fact remains that it is a bad bill and bravo to the congress folks on both sides for not voting for it.
Does something need to be done? YES!!
FIX THE PROBLEMS! There have been great suggestions, most ignored, before yesterday’s vote. Raise the insurance limit (I know Obama and McCain are taking credit for that but it was the Republicans in the house that had the suggestions) and the 3 month rolling average….great ideas that were not even considered!
When I look at the history of this scandal. Barney Frank, Barack Obama, Chris Dodd and any/everybody that refused to take action to STOP the problem in spite of warnings.
People need to call a spade a spade and prosecute the people that have attempted to destroy the economy with their criminal actions and that includes people that lied on their loan applications (BANK FRAUD) and those that made millions and millions with their scam.
We better start seeing these criminals in handcuffs, forced to repay the taxpayers and be prosecuted.
Posted by: Marxism, Communism, Socialism and now Obamaism | September 30, 2008, 6:28 pm 6:28 pm
Raising the FDIC limit is a red herring. It will only affect people who have more than $100,000 on deposit in a single FDIC institution. If you have over $100,000 on deposit (probably less than 1% of the population) and you’re dumb enough to put all of it in the same account (probably less than 0.1% of that 1%), you might be talking about 3 out of 300,000,000 Americans that raising the FDIC limit would affect.
Is this what passes for ‘governing’ these days? I’m genuinely afraid that we’ll get the government we deserve. <:(
Posted by: Will | September 30, 2008, 6:48 pm 6:48 pm
Will…what you fail to acknowledge is Fannie Mae Freddy Mac were taking “the risk out of the market” by lowering their standards on what loans they would buy. Liberal Democrats do not understand how markets work. They should stay out of economic policy altogether, their every attempt at imposing “fairness” backfires every time.
Posted by: Jon | September 30, 2008, 7:15 pm 7:15 pm
With some banks failing and others being bought up it should be obvious that we are in a period of consolidation in the financial industry. This can create a lot of uncertainty with depositors…my mother is a perfect example. She is 73 and widowed living on SS and the interest on a few 100k CD’s in different banks. If one bank is bought up by another and she has a CD in both she is no longer protected fully.
Raising the limit is one way of adding some confidence and may stem sum large depositers from making large withdrawals making our banking problem worse. Once again, Will, and other Liberal Democrats who think like him haven’t a clue.
Posted by: Jon | September 30, 2008, 7:38 pm 7:38 pm
“You won’t believe where that $700-billion bailout figure came from” (LA Times):
“It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
Posted by: Belle Starr | September 30, 2008, 9:39 pm 9:39 pm
Jon, re: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lowering their standards. Isn’t that exactly what conservatives wanted to accomplish by loosening/eliminating regulations?
Again, it was great when everybody was making money on mortgage-backed securities, and homeowners could refinance over and over again because the price of their home was going up 5% (or more) every year.
Also, I don’t have any objection to raising the FDIC limit. It just seems a little bit like the ‘proper tire pressure will lower gas prices’ argument. It won’t hurt, but if the problem is a crunch in the credit market, more insurance on deposit accounts is not a solution.
Posted by: Will | September 30, 2008, 11:14 pm 11:14 pm
–But considering that only a dozen votes needed to switch in order to provide a different outcome, and 95 Democrats in the House voted against it, critics are now wondering why couldn’t House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., have assured a different outcome considering how important she said its passage was?–
Are you serious? This isn’t even a question and here is why…
The entire point of the “bipartisan” bill was so that the Republicans couldn’t turn around and use it against the Democrats after the fact. All of them know how unpopular (to put it politely) this bill was on ‘Main Street’ (which I’m already sick of as a euphemism) and that anyone who voted for it was probably going to suffer some, uh – ’strongly worded’ backlash from their constituents. The only way to get the bill passed and not have all over their faces was for the Demos to force the Repubs to sign on beforehand. Each was supposed to ’supply’ a majority YEA vote so that the pain of doing so would be evenly spread on both sides of the aisle.
The Democrats came through. The Republicans didn’t. It’s that simple.
Understand, I’m making no statement on whether the bill should have been passed or not. Nor am I giving Nancy “Listen to me Preen” Pelosi any slack on being an idiot. But, for Republicans to point at THAT as a reason to vote down a bill that was so “critically needed” is ridiculous on its face. The real reason is that there are too many Republicans who are holding onto their seats by their fingernails and they’ve got their own elections coming up back home.
Posted by: Rob in Michigan | September 30, 2008, 11:56 pm 11:56 pm
do you people just like to hear the sound of your voice? Most of us have a horse in this race-a 401 K, a pension plan or something that ties us to the market-go ahead and shoot yourself in the other foot so you can be completely crippled-WE lost over a trillion dollars in the stock market yesterday-As much as I hate to bail anyone else out-we are also bailing ourselves out you numb nuts-you and you and you –can be the next in line to lose your job-businesses are falling like rocks daily-this thing is just getting more disaserous every day-while these idiots posture all over washington-Get it DONE!!!
Posted by: cowgirlblues | October 1, 2008, 12:50 am 12:50 am
It is an established fact that liberal democrats several community organizations were behind the Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac policies. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd et. all… along the likes of ACORN… are all completely 100% responsible for the mortgage meltdown. There is can be no dispute about this among thinking people who look at the evidence fairly.
Posted by: Jon | October 1, 2008, 6:08 am 6:08 am
the meme is that the stock market lost a “trillion dollars” the day after because the bailout failed to go thru yet a “rescue plan” of 700 billion dollars was supposed to make a difference..
now listen carefully ..no bailout of only $700 billion CAUSED a TRILLION dollar loss in A SINGLE DAY ..how does that even begin to make sense..
Posted by: imp | October 1, 2008, 10:02 am 10:02 am
The way to fix this:
1) Cut capital gains tax to nearly zero
2) Cut corporate tax to nearly zero
3) eliminate any tax on “repatriation” of U.S. dollars into US banks from off shore.
4) watch the money flow and the economy boom
All this “bailout” BS is just pissing in the wind.
Posted by: Jon | October 1, 2008, 1:12 pm 1:12 pm