Oh, That Joe! (No. 10 in a Series) — The Verbose Blue Hen Riffs on Iraq

Biden will bore his audience to death in his debate with Palin, and the moderators will be forced to cut him off, further embarrassing him and prompting accusations from Obama supporters that the moderators are biased.

Why have well thought out positions on issues when you can just deliver one liners?

Joe would probably be an ideal neighbor. I bet he has a great wine collection.
But VP? Methinks that may be a tad above his pay grade.

“Biden will bore his audience to death in his debate with Palin, and the moderators will be forced to cut him off, further embarrassing him and prompting accusations from Obama supporters that the moderators are biased.”
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To complicated for you I guess. This is the problem people want simple answers.

My only fear is that he does not hit on her way too hard to be considered a sexist. Maybe Joe Lieberman may have matched him but I tell you not John Mccain and not Sarah Palin. Also heard that he won all the debates in the primaries but probably due to charisma, he never went far

How about this short: Biden’s plan would offer Iran perfect opportunity to divide and conquer, and drastically complicate the diplomacy work in this region, maybe to the extent that’s beyond controllable.

Have you noticed that John Mccain cannot attack him. He had to hide behind Sarah Palin to take jabs. Even Obama was marvellous today. I tell you that they are making a hay out of it already via another round of viral e-mails etc.

hey jake,
can you post the audio? or atleast break this thing into paragraphs?

This really underscores the difference between the two VP candidates. You have Joe who can talk for hours and in detail about foreign policy. And then you have Sarah who, according to McCain, is qualified because she is from Alaska and Alaska is next to Russia.
Ronald Reagan Jr. said it well:
“Sarah Palin is in no way qualified to be vice president or certainly president. John McCain is a 72 year old cancer survivor, not just any cancer, melanoma. Not just any melanoma, melanoma above the neck. It was his obligation to choose somebody who could realistically step into the big chair and Sarah Palin is not that person.”

I’d suspect that Palin’s answer will be something along the lines of “What’s the difference between a hockey mom and Hamid Karzai? Lipstick!” What a buffoon (not “buffon”)!

Palin will do like McCain. She won’t answer the question specifically but will go on and on about the surge and how Obama didn’t support it.
And then Charlie Gibson will move on to the next question, something like, “Are mooseburgers yummy? I’ve never eaten one.” (Sorry Charlie!)

Biden may be overly verbose (although he made the same points more concisely in his interview this morning) but at least it is apparent that he has knows and thinks about the issues involved, which is much more than can be said about Sarah “haven’t thought much about Iraq” Palin, or for that matter McCain, who doesn’t seem to have thought about it in any terms other than military. “The surge worked” is a nice refrain but it doesn’t exactly give us any idea what he’ll do to stabilize the region once our troops do leave – or is the idea that they never will?

“And then Charlie Gibson will move on to the next question, something like, “Are mooseburgers yummy? I’ve never eaten one.” (Sorry Charlie!)”
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LOL. Actually I expect him to ask a question like Don’t you think that surge has stabilized Iraq and we ought to stay until we have a victory?
Or Obama wants to be someone who works across the aisle, has evert tried to reach acros the aisle to you?

TRBoston
So you think Obama would defer such things to Biden given that he has no experience whatsoever and Biden does?

Joe Biden knows what he’s talking about.

“Master on foreign policy”? Geez, this guys made a mistake in foreign policy for each hair plug on his head. He’s absolutely incoherent. This is the guy who recommended appeasing the Arabs after 9/11 by giving $100 million to Iran, their mortal enemy! This at the same time we were trying to keep the Russians from giving about the same amount to the Iranians. He opposed Reagan on just about everything in foreign policy, voted agaist the 2nd Gulf War (1991), for the 3rd Gulf War (2003) and against the surge (which he oddly claims above took only his suggestions). He would’ve created an absolute catastrophe in Iraq if his ideas held sway. Heaven help us if this moron actually has an effect on our foreign policy. Biden would fit the role of a foreign policy critic — able to talk at length about something, never actually doing anything. What I read above reminds me of Shakespeare — “it is a tale, Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”

PS I bet he forgot what the question was in the first place. His answer was not even relevant.

Gov. Palin’s answer:
“No. I don’t believe in a tripartite solution.”
Biden’s experience is being wrong on every foreign policy senate vote for the last 25 years.

If you seem too complicated an asnwer, it is not an answer.
It is very easy to make things complicated, yet it is difficult to make things simple.

This is a good example which shows that shrewd foreign policies cannot be reduced to a couple of sound bites like “the surge works”.
For those who find themselves lost in Biden’s lengthy explanation, he basically made two points regarding why he thinks Iraq seems to be working okay today:
First and a point relevant to his idea of a tripartite solution — violence has dropped significantly in Iraq because the country is practically governed in a tripartite fashion, with the Sunni regions governed and guarded by the Sunnis, Shiite regions governed and guarded by the Shiites, and the Kurdish region governed and guarded by the Kurds.
Second, what has made the surge work is the change in the composition of the American forces in Iraq (what he referred to as “the mix of forces”). More specifically, it is the increase in counterinsurgency forces relative to forces charged with something else (maybe combat). Does he think increasing the overall troop level has helped too? He didn’t say.

President Bush nailed it when he said about Washington DC.. ” they got a lotta big talkers”
Here is a suggestion.. At the VP Debates, dont have any time limits and ask Biden the first question…. He just might talk for the whole hour ..

so, you all are criticizing the democratic candidate for being rather too detailed in his response to a foreign policy question (and showing a deep understanding of the situation, by the by), at the same time that the republican vp candidate is refusing to answer any questions whatsoever? yeah, that makes sense…

Let me summarize the statement by Biden …I was wrong about the surge.. I was wrong to vote against the surge..
I was wrong to want to impose partitions on Iraq…I was wrong when I said the surge wont work … but if I talk long enough, you will end up being happy , just to hear me stop talking.

If we hadn’t invaded in the first place we wouldn’t have needed a surge.
Quick – somebody from the McCain campaign tell Sarah Palin what to think. She admitted she knows little about the war…she didn’t even write her wonderful little speech about Obama, Oil, and Alaska.

Obama showed poor judgement picking Biden
Biden and Obama both showed poor judgements in voting against the surge
Obama showed hatred for the USA military when he voted to not fund the surge.

Instead of belittling Sen. Biden’s depth of knowledge (we’re so used to sound bites and one-dimensional analysis and an attention span of less than a nanosecond on most things)…why not instead be thankful for having an elected official who actually: a.) understands the complexity of the situation, including nuances, and b.)speaks intelligently about it?
P.S. I’m no historian or military person, but I understood everything he said except the counterinsurgency thing…and that was easy to look up online.

Oh, and an addendum to my previous post:
As any person who’s experienced in critical thinking could tell you:
1. The only way this so-called “surge” can be claimed as “successful” is if NO OTHER FACTORS in the EQUATION have changed. In other words, nothing else during this time of the surge could have shifted in any way. (Kinda like conducting a science experiment attempting to measure Variable A…while changing Variables B and C at the same time. Can’t be done.)
2. And what were those additional changes? The counterinsurgency strategy – pretty major – and the “awakening” – also major (paying the Sunnis to police their own turf…made a huge difference).
3. The other critical piece that’s missing from all the cries of “It worked! It worked!” is…measuring the outcome against the stated objective of the surge. And that objective wasn’t simply a reduction in violence. In fact, that wasn’t the objective at all per se. Rather, it was to establish a political/social solution to the problems inherently present re: warring tribal factions.
Has such a solution been established? Well, the beginnings of one, yes. But it doesn’t take much reading to realize…that “peace” is incredibly fragile, and the political climate still raw. Just one example: the Iraqi P.M. is holding those Sunni police forces at arms length and is refusing to integrate them into the Shiite military (big problem). Pretty much zero trust there. Consequently…
…it might be helpful for all of us to learn the details of this complicated situation and not just go with the five word headlines we’re fed and assume that’s the whole story.
The best to you. And thanks for reading.

Who did Joe plagarize for the answer?

I think Jake just wants the Monosyllabic single sentence response that may or may not include the word God. It does keep the work load down.

ok, surge worked…happy now. Now what? the iraqis have put their differencse apart yet, so that’s means 10 billions a month. And if the Iraqis never come together what will happen then people?
4000 bodies underground+500 in from the Afghanistan war. What the hell is going on With you American? She has experience because her State is close to Russia, so she passes the test because her state is close to Russia with being sad she still does not know about Iraqis, Syria and Iran.

John
- I take it you are not “experienced in critical thinking”. The surge plan is based on the premise without a drop in the level violence there can be no political solution. The violence level reduced and the political solution is starting. This can be seen in Anbar, in citizens working together rather than with insurgents, in other counties for giving debts from Saddam, Maliki taking on his own party and the US. It will take time but it is starting.

Way to go, Uncle Joe! You hit it
outta the park! Clear, concise and
………….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry, Sarah went to Kuwait and Iraq ages ago to support her Natl Guard…and did on her own accord.

McCain has lost three wars.
Vietnam
Iraq
Georgia
Violence in Iraq is down not
because of the surge but because
the insurgents know there is a
timetable for our troops to begin
to leave Iraq in a few months.
They have gone on to fight in
Afghanistan where the war is
raging with ever greater intensity.

“Before we reprint it, in full, it’s only fair to ponder how long Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s answer to such a question would be.”
It’s only fair to wonder if McCain ever talked about “my muslim faith”

All the initial personal trash talk from liberal blogs, liberal media and rabid feminists has backfired. which resulted in a billion dollars worth of free PR pre speech, over 37, million households tuned in, and she knocked a grand slam. No one bothered to really impartially investigate her political ability and skills. The unproven and un-vetted dirt feeding frenzy has now inoculated her to a large degree and further negativity will run like water off a ducks back.
I watched Governor Palin’s 2006 debate for governor on C-Span tonight. It was a three way debate against two men, and she dissected them. Lightweight, hardly.
Senator Biden is blithely sailing into dangerous uncharted waters with her to prove rocky shoals that can rip his bottom out. She can smile sweetly, cut like a razor, then politely hand her opponent his testicles.
Now uber liberal Willie Brown of California fame has written an article singing her praises and warning the democrats they are in grave danger with her arrival upon the scene.
The NYT article today which all liberals had hoped devastating after the Drudge hype, has come out with a laudatory puff piece for her.
The Washington Post article today sings her praises also on her leadership style and that she did indeed get the pipeline deal through. Not all pro, but far from con, just a warning of the dangers she presents.

Her novelty has already worn
off. She lies through the teeth
about practically everything.
She’s a shrill whippersnapper.
She possesses neither the range
nor the depth of knowledge the
job demands. She has no gravitas.
She’ll bite the dust in a couple
of weeks.

Joe ‘I’m from Scranton” Biden is a gaffolating bloviating nightmare.

A remarkable number of the commenters slamming Joe didn’t even read his response. And I’m pretty sure that a lot of the others didn’t understand what he was saying.
Personally, I don’t mind taking the time and understanding a candidate’s answer to a serious question. Maybe there are people who would prefer a simple “yes” or “no” but I like the fact that he provided some analysis in his response. When did the capacity for serious thought and analysis become a despised trait among our leaders? Why is a short snappy soundbite a better response?
It’s kind of hard to critique Palin’s response as she has never been asked the question. I’m guessing her answer will be “yes” or “no,” which should make a lot of the commenters happy.

Biden is an idiot.
“Where there’s relative peace, where is it?”
I guess he doesn’t have a clue or care to have one. I’m really not shocked, neither does BHO.

By picking Joe Biden, Obama again shows his flipflop, say anything, do anything to get elected mode. Here is a candidate who has condemned “Washington insiders” and vowed to “change” Washington during his entire campaign. So who does he pick for VP? A lifelong Washington insider!! Most polls showed that Obama’s numbers went DOWN after this selection, as it created confusion even among his supporters. In his first major decision as nominee, Obama makes a huge mistake, not good judgment.

Irma, I remember when Biden trashed Obama, do you?

the idiots who do not see that Biden is completely correct on this answer…
we are paying insurgents in Iraq to keep peace… money, guns and power
guess where that happened before …you know paying Muslim Extremist Insurgents to assist in a military quieting of a conflict…and giving them guns and power to do so …on our side…
Afghanistan in the 80′s
yes they were called by Ronald reagan “Freedom Fighters”
these insurgents and their support is based on financial reasons, promises of power positions, al qaeda calling down fire because they can not be blamed by Pakistan and Afghanistan muslims for disquieting muslim nations more than the US…
yes money, guns, promises of power and military works to quiet violence but it is all wasted if we see NO substantial resolution of politics within the country…
it is a fake peace for all intensive purposes.
do you all know what became of reagan’s freedom fighters after we left?
they changed their “names”
to
the taliban, Osama Bin Laden, al zwawaheeri, and …al qaeda.
you all need to get a clue and read.
THIS is why Palin and and her tactically Rovian “hide and seek the truth and our mistakes and lack of knowledge” teammate, McCain, should be no where near the white house.
It will/would take decades and decades to have a chance that this centuries old conflict and the fatwas would dissolve in their anger in these countries…
decades of paying those insurgents and keeping military boots on the ground for thisd to work…
and how many “katrillions” would that be?
get smarter…don’t be played like it’s 2004. throw the bums out.

“bomb em”
nice name
Palin shouldn’t be trashed for being so ill equipped and lacking of any knowledge of any of the issues we face…
Mccain should be trashed for letting it be clear…that he really decides based on the same tactics and values as the last 8 years.
Make choices that are dumb at best…(picking a candidate who is overwhelmingly unaware of the details of almost every single issue we face) on the face of a national disaster on so many sides…
and then playing the same game for 8 years … hiding the witness in a backroom while you literally teach her foreign policy 101 and how to deal with energy, social security, healthcare, trade, environment (or “how to answer the question why do you not believe in science when it conflicts with what you want to hear”)…
and draw fire toward the poress
just like we saw with Libby and wmd, and freakin NIxon and the justice deparmtent, katrina ignorance and cover up…
same team
same tactics…
different ill equipped candidates…
don’t be played in the 9th year…
throw these bums out.

dl, Obamas chronies are, the not so Rev. Wright and William Ayers, not to mention Farakan and also in this group I must mention the gutless and shameful Ted Kennedy. Chronies of your’s also?

Watch out Joe you’re about to get dumped.

Obama/Biden
Truly a Bridge To Nowhere

If BO has any grit he should
dump this guy as a non-performing
asset – NOW.
Biden is a slob.
Younger guys sometimes come under
the influence of old men like Biden.
Biden has a way of humoring younger
men by saying things like, Look
at me I’m all shot, look at you,
you are young and handsome, and
man, you should have seen me at
your age, I was quite a ladies man
you know, my wife you know she’s
drop dead gorgeous, you know, my
roving eye, my old sexcapades with
women, you know, she keeps a tight
leash on me, great woman…
And some younger guys start thinking Oh, This Joe! he’s one heck of a
guy…
That’s probably what happened to
Obama in the Senate.
Biden should be shown the door
without wasting any more time
if BO and the Dems are serious
about winning this election.

Dump Biden. Put Hillary
on the ticket.
That’s the real ticket
to the White House.

Biden, please go home.
Have a Good Day!
Hillary should have been
hands down the first choice.
Putting her on the ticket
now will strengthen it
enormously and generate a
groundswell positive publicity.
BO and the Dems have a choice.
Keep Biden and lose the election
or put Hillary on the ticket and
win it.

I guess the morons want to hear some pat little soundbyte, huh? I prefer a little substance, thank you. People recognize expertise when they see it. This is exactly what Joe Biden should be doing.

I guess the morons want to hear some pat little soundbyte, huh?

Don’t you love Libs double speak, Biden trying to take credit, well he fits in with No Experience Obama!!

AH, Biden in his natural condition– bloviating. Dems keep gushing about his foreign policy experience, but my response is:
1. Is such experience helpful if he’s usually WRONG on foriegn policy matters? The Balkanization of Iraq, no matter what semantic tricks he applies and no matter how long his rambling answer supporting the notion, is simply a disastrously bad idea. He seems to have trouble admitting when an idea has been discredited.
2. Is holding senate hearings to have forums to hear yourself pontificate really the sort of experience we are looking for? Yes, he has travelled the world and yes, he has a strong knowledge base. Yet, time and again, he uses that knowledge to develop wrong-headed proposals. You have to be able to apply what you have learned in a useful and meaningful way. John McCain, for example, studied Vietnam in the War College. He, like Biden, travelled the world as a Senator and attended a blue-billion hearings. He was able to take that knowledge and experience and come out strongly in support of Petreus’s idea of the Surge. Being able to talk a long time about a subject is not the same as actually being an expert on same.

Oh, the media. If it can’t fit into a 30-second sound byte, it must be a bad idea. Because clearly the 30-second sound byte style of leadership has gotten us so far…

Kravitz said: “Look for the results in a few days. If not tomorrow. Heck, the 10 point bounce fell 5 points in one day thanks to Chris Wallace and Fox pointing out she lied about the earmark.” Uh??? Hey, um, Kravitz, um, the 10 points was the USA/Gallup of “likely” voters, the 5 points is today’s Gallup, which is the rolling average of “registered” voters. Sorry to burst your balloon there bud, but there was no “drop in one day”…just 2 different polls. I know, I know, it’s hard dealing with this whole “Obama’s going into the dumper thing”, but trust me, you’ll be ok….

It was a 13 minute lesson, not an answer. I GOT IT! So he is an I-man, but at least I understood what he was saying. Did y’aaall?

HEY VUVOUS – Not sure what you are listening to or reading – McCain has repeatedly asked Obama for Town Hall meetings taht don’t have biased mediation by some network. Is Obama hiding behind the network’s protection or just scared??
By the way, what is the liberals biase against women. We have a qualified women for the first time in history that can run this country.
The last Dem President thought so highly of women that he invited one over for cigars. He needs to join “…Hollywood actor” in sex addition rehab instead of giving your party advice.