Biden Jokes, ‘I’m Going Home to Polish my Golf Game Up’

Vanessa,
Perhaps you are wrong. Perhaps McCain pulled the economic rug from under Obama. Plain talk from Joe Plumber exposed Obama for what he is.

Joe’s all over the place today. On “Nightline” last night, he told Terry Moran:
“To be honest with you, that infuriates me,” plumber Joe Wurzelbacher told Nightline’s Terry Moran. “It’s not right for someone to decide you made too much—that you’ve done too good and now we’re going to take some of it back.”
“That’s just completely wrong,” he added.
He went on to rail against progressive taxation further:
“I don’t like it,” said Wurzelbacher. “You know, me or — you know, Bill Gates, I don’t care who you are. If you worked for it, if it was your idea, and you implemented it, it’s not right for someone to decide you made too much.”
Now, Joe Biden starts questioning the motives and honesty of Joe Wurzelbacher.

geevil…Joe Plumber didn’t listen to Obama. He willnot be taxed plus he will get tax credits. McCain and Palin are know for turning things around(check factcheck.org).
Plus, Joe Plumber is VERY selfish. If I made a LOT more money than I make now, I would expect to pay my fair share of taxes.

If McCain won’t raise taxes, then what kind of financial derivatives will he have his Wall Street whiz kids engineer (and who will he sell them to) in order to carry out his $300 billion mortgage bailout for the banks?

samuri…good question. This is one we have all been asking him and Palin to clarify.
No answer yet..

“Joe the plumber: here you have one guy hoping to get rich vs. thousands struggling to put food on the table. How many of those thousands would Joe employ?”
Posted by: samurai | Oct 16, 2008 10:47:26 AM
One Joe will employ a few workers. A thousand more Joe’s across America will employ thousands more. That’s the American way. Joe takes the risk, buys a $250 k business, creates jobs–and reaps the rewards of his success, or the pain of his failure. Small business creates most jobs in this country, not the federal government. And Obama wants to punish the biggest risk takers, biggest innovators, and biggest job creators with his Socialist redistribution tax scheme. The top 20% of earners currently pay 78% of all Fed tax dollars. The bottom one third of earners pay NO federal income tax. How much is enough?

Average Joe – same question to you.
Are you saying Obama’s tax plan will prevent Joe from growing his business?
I see the exact opposite. Joe will have an incentive to decrease his take-home from over a quarter million to under a quarter million, and every small business owner knows you can do that by increasing your expenses.
In other words, if Joe hires enough people or buys enough new plumbing vans, his take home will drop into the lower tax bracket, right?

Allah be praised. Barack Hussein Obama will soon rule over us.

Average Joe:
Joe the plumber will only pay higher taxes if he earns more than $250,000 a year in salary. All he has to do is lower his salary to $100,000 and he would have an extra $150,000 to spend on hiring extra employees. But he seems fixed on earning more than $250,000.

samurai – glad to see I’m not the only one who sees that.
Small business owners for as long as I know have been using business expenses to drop themselves into lower tax brackets.
Does McCain not know this, or does he know it but just choosing to ignore it while making a disingenuous argument?

When is someone in the media going to ask Biden about his comments during the primaries regarding the presidency not being a position for “on the job training”, clearly and repeatedly implying Obama was not ready to run the country? How can he possibly justify his apparent change of mind, joining the ticket with someone who isn’t qualified? Is it that politicians routinely say such things during the primaries, particularly, just to jockey for position and that the public “understands this” (as I believe I heard him say), or has he had some kind of “awakening” after speaking with Obama? In either case, he needs to answer this question for the American people and either admit to simply being “political” (translation: a liar saying what he thinks he needs to say in order to win a nomination or an election) or share with us the enlightening experience that so changed his opinion of his then opponent, now best-buddy/running mate.

Geevil, this country is not communist. Please promptly move to North Korea to see how well it works.

Plugs Biden said its all about a three letter word – J O B S. Err, plugs thats four letters you stupid moron.

Huh, seems I’m having a hard time finding a McCain supporter who wants to discuss which approach to taxation actually leads to small business growth.

to Paul and samurai:
Joe’s hiring and pay decisions should be based on the marketplace. Small business owners already have to take a smaller profit sometimes to stay in business—at least temporarily. It all depends on the market. But if he deliberately hires more workers than he can keep busy, then he makes his business LESS competitive and more costly than his competitors—especially larger firms. He will lose business and go under.
So you are admitting that Obama’s tax scheme will force Joe to run a less competitive and less efficient business. Small companies like his which are just starting up will get creamed. Obama’s tax HIKE will cost jobs.
Bottom line: Tax increases–especially to business and especially during a slow economy, will reduce business activity, reduce profits, reduce investment, reduce capital flow into the US, hurt financial markets, reduce tax revenue, and reduce jobs.

How long will OHB live a president with all the racist in the US… Is every one forgetting he may be targeted for assassination by all the racists, then when he is gone we get another good old boy who has been screwing us for years

If McCain’s supposedly the “no new taxes” candidate, why is he proposing to tax health benefits??? That sounds way more preposterous to me than taxing incomes over a quarter million! Does 7-house McCain even know what the middle class is?

Posted by: Average Joe | Oct 16, 2008 11:22:38 AM
Average Joe – is a racist… who hates whites because he has failed in his own life and needs to blame others

Biden is not very professional. His lack of respect doesn’t say much for any leadership he aspires for.
Middle America is not stupid and you will see that come November 5.

“Average Joe – is a racist… who hates whites because he has failed in his own life and needs to blame others”
Posted by: james | Oct 16, 2008 11:27:05 AM
Another Liberal elevating the tone of political discussion. If you oppose The One, then you are a Racist. End of debate, no proof or logic needed. Very convenient and heavily overused.

Does 7-house McCain even know what the middle class is?
Posted by: Greg
Greg: McCain said in a debate when asked one goes from middle class to rich. McCains answer was
speaking of income…$5 million.
So…no, he doesnt know.

Joe the Plumber can kiss my a$$. What a foolish, political play to bring this hick from Ohio into the picture. How about McSame pretending like none of those crazies exist who go to his rallies? See any of those videos? Or how Obama called McSame out about Falin not quelling the crowd when they were screaming “Kill Him!” or “Terrorist!”. McSame is a joke, did you see how angry and fidgety he was up there? And you think that’s the man who needs to step up in a moment of national crises? Get real right-wing kooks. All I saw was more b.s. from Mr. Keating 5, the same guy who admitted he knows nothing about the economy and suddenly is going to answer all our problems. Rrrriiiiiiiight.

eisermann: “Who was the last poor person that gave you a job and benefits?”
Actually I’ve never been given a job, with or without benefits by a poor person. But I’ve also never been hired by someone who takes home more than $250,000 a year.
Maybe we need to figure out how to get a few people out of the poor ranks and into the middle class?

Average Joe: “A punitive tax code should not make that decision for him.”
I see you are abandoning the economic argument for a philosophical one. I do agree that’s your side’s stronger ground.
We’ve had tax brackets for a long time, and small business owners for an equally long time have manipulated their profits via operating expenses to drop themselves into lower tax brackets.
I would think Republicans know that all too well.
To give them an incentive to not do this means giving these small business owners an incentive to take their money out of the business, for personal use.
It might actually stifle economic growth.
Though, granted, the question of whether giving small business owners incentives to grow their business over joining the local country club perhaps not being fair is a tougher one to answer.

Uh, no. The amount a small business will be taxed has nothing to do with the salary that the owner makes. If the business makes more that $250,000 profit (after salaries, supplies, health care, or whatever) then Obama’s plan will increase the tax on that business.
And to CinyCT, what exactly is your definition of fair anyway. My definition of fair, is if everyone paid exactly the same percentage of their income toward taxes. It sounds to me like you are confusing fair tax laws with charity or you are just truly a socialist at heart. I am sure compared to many people, you are making a lot of money. Why don’t you stop being selfish and give up your computer or car or closet full of clothes, so that families living in poverty can eat three meals a day. I mean to be fair, no one should have any luxuries until everyone in the US can afford three square meals a day, right? And then take the money out of your child’s education fund and give it to the kids who can’t afford to buy shoes and don’t have school supplies. That would be fair, right? Stop being a hypocrite. No one wants to pay higher taxes. And I bet that even if you made 5 times what you are making now, you would be taking every tax deduction possible to make sure you kept more of what you earned.

But that philosophical argument also runs into a broader question of whether its fair to use the tax code to incentivise anything. Should taxes be a governmental tool to get people to do what government wants them to do?
For instance, is it right that income taxes give people an incentive to own their home instead of renting it?
If you’re okay with that one, because home ownership is important to a thriving economy, then why are you opposed to incentives for small business owners to grow their businesses?

The error in Joe’s reasoning is that as a small business owner, as opposed to an independent contractor, your income is not just from your own hard work. Your income is mainly produced by the hard work of your employees and the available money of your customers.
Joe believes he deserves a tax break before all of his employees and 95% of his customers.
Joe – a successful local businessman knows that it is the success of his community and the success strength of his employees that produces his success. That’s just good business.

Joe the plumber what a joke,
see his comments on illegals!

philosopherkingtomas: “Joe the plumber what a joke, see his comments on illegals!”
I don’t see any point in elevating or attacking this guy. For purposes of this election, he’s just an example of a small business owner who hopes to make more than a quarter million a year in profits.

I was undecided before the debate, but now it is clear to me that Obama is the best pick for leading our country in a new direction. I could not get over the negativity, verbal and non verbal by McCain. I think this is just plain frustration that his policies can not compete with Obama’s.

Did Sarah Palin’s “Joe Six-pack” get a job as “Joe, the Plumber?” — Not a “G. Gordon Liddy supporting McCain Watergate Plumber,” I hope. —-John, You just keep getting sillier, and sillier and sillier with your debate “technique.” You sounded more like Daffy Duck, even though you looked more like the stuffed cheek Chipmunks, maybe that’s where you keep your ACORNS….Give your silliness a rest!

Hey,
Iam regular 7am-4Pm worker and my employer gives me health insurance by getting groups discounts and I get tax deductions for my insurance premium. Now what Mcain is doing is giving me 5000$ and inturn my company will take away my health plan because I get 5000$ from Mcain. If I shop of insurance I have to pay double or trible of what I pay now.. Who is benefited? Health care insurance companies. THis is republican policy. rich becomes richer and poor becomes poorer

Paul,
First, let us assume that your assumption is correct and Joe’s “take home” is 250k. (I believe the reality is the business was “valued” at 250k including contracts, equipment, buildings, etc).
You are arguing that an increased tax would be an incentive for him (and, I assume you imply, other small businesses) to reduce their “take home pay” below this threshold. You suggest they would do this by “increasing expenses”.
That is a fundamentally flawed argument. The most basic business (which is defined as an enterprise desgined to make money) principle is revenue – expenses = profits. Because Joe’s goal as an entrepretneur is to grow profits he either has to grow revenue or REDUCE expenses.
Taxes fall under the expense category, but are applied toward REVENUE, not PROFITS. If Joe has to pay 10% (just an arbitrary number) more taxes, that means he has 10% less revenue to meet his other expenses. And you suggest that he INCREASE his expenses on top of this? It is just not good business sense and Joe is running a business and not an employment agency.
I believe that people often get stuck up on this 250k number as being “a lot of money”. It certainly is a lot to an individual, but what about the small business with perhaps a low operating margin? (i.e. a restuarant that has 250k in revenue and 220k in expenses) 250k belies the narrow margin that is keeping that business afloat. A 10% increase in tax would make such a business unprofitable.
Now I have no statistics on profit margins for the average small business, but I have a gut feeling that most small businesses do not have that much margin for error, especially in an economy such as we have now where it is costing more for them to get credit to cover dailly expenses.
I am an undecided voter at the moment and taxes aren’t going to sway me because neither candidate would raise them on me, but I think your reasoning needs a different basis if you want to persuade any of these business owners.

Thomas: “First, let us assume that your assumption is correct and Joe’s “take home” is 250k. (I believe the reality is the business was “valued” at 250k including contracts, equipment, buildings, etc).”
Then he has nothing to worry about from Obama’s tax plan, because small business owners aren’t taxed on their companies values.

Obama mocks Joe the plumber at his house parties with Bill Ayers and San Fransisco fundraisers.

Thomas: “Ok, well what about the other hundreds of thousands of small businesses? Joe is just one data point here.”
Exactly. And if Joe builds the company to the point where he could take home more than $250,000 a year, he also could opt not to, and instead keep more cash in the business.
Most small business don’t produce quarter million profits. But some do. Those owners will decide whether to pay the higher rates, or to lower their take home by investing in their businesses.
And as someone else pointed out, the only amounts taxed at the higher rates are those amounts over $250k, so the difference isn’t as dramatic as it might seem.

Lets look at it this way, Joe, has a small business, I will assume(SP,LLC) since I do not hear about any other partners. The business makes a profit of 250k per year. Joe pays himself only 50k per year, because he realizes re-investing in the company is the best route to sustain a long term business. Joe does not spend the money on extra employees or assets, because he knows there can be slow times when he may not profit every month and he will have to pay his employees out of savings. Also Joe, is looking to save up to expand his business. Because he has decided to be fiscally responsible and maintain his fiduciary responsibility to his company and employees, his profit exceeds 250k, now he is taxed higher. Is this ok?

The LLC might not be the best example in Joe’s case – and I doubt he’ll set up that way.
LLCs work best when profits are low, or in the case of realestate rental business, you can actually grow the business and even make money while showing losses – which passes through and lowers your personal taxes.
But in your example, yes, if Joe holds on to $250k a year in cash, either in terms of take home or company assets (again, cash only), and he sets himself up as an LLC, then for tax purposes he has made $250k a year.
But there are so many ways to avoid this, and if it happens, I’d say Joe needs to shop for a new tax preparer. Because someone should have advised him to set up the company differently.
By the way, even in your example, you do understand that someone making $250,001 only gets the $1 taxed at the higher rate, right?

Joe the Plumber was not an “undecided” as he claims. Also, he is a registered Republican in Ohio.
Joe the Plumber is and has been in the tank for McCain.

Pride cometh? Eh, you never know…
How come no coverage of Biden’s son’s corruption? Nothin?

Thomas J: “I suppose in that I’ve only ever worked at the corporate level, where efficiency is everything, that the idea of increasing expenses artificially to beat a threshold still doesn’t make business sense.”
I have no idea where you work, but I’ll bet the corporation does it, too.
Could be wrong, but the corporation’s major expenditures are probably delayed or hastened to correspond with tax strategies.
Granted, it must be much more complicated for a large corporation than it would be for a guy with a van and some plumbing tools.

“I have no idea where you work, but I’ll bet the corporation does it, too.
Could be wrong, but the corporation’s major expenditures are probably delayed or hastened to correspond with tax strategies.”
This is probably true, but our close ties to governmental contract spending require a pretty strict adherence to timelines that may not allow similar corporate level versions of this maneuvering.

Why is it taboo to ask 2nd amendment questions in this election? Obama’s “Interpretation” of the 2nd amend. is scary and is just the beginning. How will he “Interpret” the 1st and 3rd amendments? Will we be arrested for expressing our views in an ObamaNation?
Also, what’s wrong with using Obama’s middle name? He should be proud of it.
GOD is Great!

Chair.
“Meltdown. Foreclosure. Pensions, savings wiped out.
And now our nation considers elevating one of the least experienced people ever to run for President.
Barack Obama: he hasn’t had executive experience.
This crisis would be Obama’s first crisis. In this chair.”
That is a near-perfect distillation of the experience argument against Obama. Why should Americans trust Obama in the nation’s highest office when he has no experience at all as an executive at any level of politics? Obama is, indeed, one of the least experienced people ever to run for President as a major-party nominee. He hasn’t even completed his first term in the Senate.
Obama could answer that charge if he had an extraordinary list of accomplishments, but he doesn’t. Want to watch an Obama supporter squirm? Ask them this question: Outside of getting himself elected, what has Barack Obama actually ACCOMPLISHED? He spent seven years in the state legislature without much to recommend him, and he’s done even less in the US Senate in half that time. Usually, the response will be a spluttering tirade against the Bush administration, but George Bush isn’t running for re-election, and it still doesn’t answer the question.
Of course, Obama does have some limited executive experience, but strangely, he doesn’t want to talk about the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and its eight-figure FAILURE in educational reform. In fact, he and his campaign go out of their way to smear journalists who research it and try their best to silence them.
No significant accomplishments in the legislature. Less than four years experience in national politics. No executive, military, or foreign-relations experience. The RNC rightly reminds voters of Obama’s shallow résumé and asks why we would trust him in any crisis, let alone during a time of war and financial collapse.

You can debate obama’s tax policy all day…you can throw figures here and there all day and try to appear educated on the matter, but the simple fact is no one knows what he or his cronies in the house or senate are going to do…it is rare that a politician keeps their promises after winning the big prize. Obama does not have substantial voting record to use in predicting his future actions..that is a fact…I can only say that the next four years will likely be like the last two years, dem majority in house and senate, on steriods..As they are predicting to gain more dem seats in both the house and senate..NO MORE CHECKS AND BALANCES..That alone could increase the chances of a major event

I have noticed that some of the folks who are living in poverty are eating extremely well. Hopefully Barak’s health plan will get some of them off the sofa and on the treadmill.

Don’t be lazy william why don’t you enlighten us or educate us on your laundry list…exs your DAV and IAV rating is an old rating….McCain introduced his own bill rather than going with Jim Webb (D) that Bush was going to veto anyway…McCain fought for stricter policies on Freddie/Fannie…Keating was cleared by Senate Ethics Committee, although was deemed as using poor judgement…McCain and Acorn…LOL I think you meant obama…on and on and on…YES by all means google

To add insult to injury, the 40% that are getting the free ride also get 500 bucks on the side with the “Obama Tax Cut”. So, instead of using everything for free, you get paid just to be alive. What a crock!

Joe, hopefully you shank one into the woods and kill an endangered species.

Why I am voting Democrat!
I’m voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending MY MONEY than I would. I think when you spread the wealth around it is good for everybody! It’s Patriotic!
I’m voting Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. All profits are evil and should be confiscated for Government Redistribution.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe that MORE Government regulations and higher taxes on Business will stop Business from exporting their jobs to Countries with LESS Government regulations and lower taxes.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe terrorists should be allowed to have trials in American courts. And be able to subpoena top secret documents, soldiers, government officials, etc. to cross examine for their defense. They should have ACLU lawyers who can help intimidate Americans who serve on the juries!
I’m voting Democrat because I believe in a FREE government health care system. I believe doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug companies, etc. will gladly donate their time, products, services, facilities, etc. for FREE and that will be a better system.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe in and support trial lawyers, frivolous lawsuits and outrageous jury verdicts.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe 9/11 was an inside job to con the American people to go to war for oil.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe social security is solvent and that there is a social security lock box and I don’t believe social security is a Ponzi scheme.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe Gay Marriage should be the law of the land and will probably produce better children.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe English should not be the official language of the United States. I don’t mind pushing one for English when I use the phone.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe partial birth abortion is okay but water boarding a terrorist is disgusting.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe having a domestic terrorist like Bill Ayers as a close friend is a good thing. It allows for great relations with foreign terrorists.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe MOST AMERICANS are bitter and cling to their guns and religion. Let’s rid our country of guns and religion!
I’m voting Democrat because I believe illegal aliens deserve all the rights of ordinary Americans plus some additional rights Americans do not have.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe groups like ACORN who register felons, drug addicts, wino’s, homeless drifters, illegal aliens, dead people, children, fictional Disney characters, etc. makes my vote count more.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe celebrating the winter solstice shows compassion for the small minority of people that do not celebrate Christmas.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe hard core criminal murders and rapists deserve life and that the innocent unborn deserve death. It’s a choice I can live with.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe Bush caused Hurricane Katrina and he blew-up the levies in the ninth ward of New Orleans.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe our soldiers are AIR RAIDING villages and killing innocent people.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe sex in the Oval Office with an intern is a private matter and that everybody lies under oath about sex.
I’m votin Demokrat becuse I wus edumkated at a publick sckrool.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe that any one who is not partaking in one of the many wonderful government programs obviously has too much money and should pay higher taxes.
I’m voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq the terrorists will be happy and now think of us as good people.
I’m voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as it does not offend people. Can’t we all just get along?
I’m voting Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits are wrong. I believe higher taxes on oil companies will produce lower prices at the pump.
I’m voting Democrat because I believe we need to rid ourselves of dependency on foreign oil, BUT I AM AGAINST offshore drilling for oil and natural gas, drilling in Anwar, building nuclear power plants and clean coal technology.
And finally, I’m voting Democrat because I believe Reverend Wright when he said “GODDAMN AMERICA” and “OUR CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST”. Hey let’s make a comfortable nest for those chickens!
Why are you voting Democrat?