By Natalie Gewargis

Oct 27, 2008 11:10am

Former Bush State Department Official: We Should Talk to Our Enemies

Nicholas Burns, the former undersecretary of state for political affairs, until his retirement in April, writes in Newsweek about the McCain-Obama debate over talking to enemies of the U.S.

"One of the sharpest and most telling differences on foreign policy between Barack Obama and John McCain is whether the United States should talk to difficult and disreputable leaders, like Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Venezuela’s Hugo Chávez," writes the former highest-ranking American career diplomat. "In each of the three presidential debates, McCain belittled Obama as naive for arguing that America should be willing to negotiate with such adversaries. In the vice presidential debate, Sarah Palin went even further, accusing Obama of ‘bad judgment … that is dangerous’ …

"Are McCain and Palin correct that America should stonewall its foes? I lived this issue for 27 years as a career diplomat, serving both Republican and Democratic administrations. Maybe that’s why I’ve been struggling to find the real wisdom and logic in this Republican assault against Obama. I’ll bet that a poll of senior diplomats who have served presidents from Carter to Bush would reveal an overwhelming majority who agree with the following position: of course we should talk to difficult adversaries — when it is in our interest and at a time of our choosing.

"The more challenging and pertinent question, especially for the McCain-Palin ticket, is the reverse: Is it really smart to declare we will never talk to such leaders? Is it really in our long-term national interest to shut ourselves off from one of the most important and powerful states in the Middle East — Iran — or one of our major suppliers of oil, Venezuela? … it is crude, simplistic and wrong to charge that negotiations reflect weakness or appeasement. More often than not, they are evidence of a strong and self-confident country …

"I’m not saying the next president should sit down immediately with Ahmadinejad. We should initiate contact at a lower level to investigate whether it’s worth putting the president’s prestige on the line. We should leave the threat of military action on the table to give us greater leverage as we talk to the Iranian government. And ultimately, we’d want other countries with influence — like Russia and China — to sit on our side of the table in order to bring maximum pressure to bear against Tehran. But the United States hasn’t had a meaningful set of talks with Iran, on all the critical issues that separate us, in 30 years, since the Khomeini revolution. To illustrate how far we have isolated ourselves, think about this: I served as the Bush administration’s point person on Iran for three years but was never permitted to meet an Iranian. To her immense credit, Secretary Rice arranged for my successor to participate in a multilateral meeting with Iranian officials this past summer. That is a good first step, but the next American president should initiate a more sustained discussion with senior Iranians …"

- jpt

User Comments

You know Jake there is a difference between meeting without preconditions and low level meetings to begin.

Posted by: samhiguchi | October 27, 2008, 11:25 am 11:25 am

I don’t see anything he said means we should talk to our enimies without pre-conditions.

Posted by: wonder | October 27, 2008, 11:27 am 11:27 am

Burns’ argument is based on a straw man. McCain and Palin have never said “never”. They have simply pointed out that Obama’s openly declared determination to talk to these leaders “without preconditions” is naive.
Indeed, it has always been clear to me (but I’m not a sophisticated D.C. insider) that McCain and Palin would agree with the proposition, “of course we should talk to difficult adversaries—when it is in our interest and at a time of our choosing.”

Posted by: swlip | October 27, 2008, 11:30 am 11:30 am

The statement is more nuanced than the headline suggests. While he appears not to support “never” talking to leaders, the final paragraph of your story is a direct refutation of Obama’s original statement (before his handlers could massage teh message) that he would sit down with any leader without precondition. To the extent that the McCain position opposes Obama’s stated approach, Burns is fully on board.

Posted by: jpfred | October 27, 2008, 11:30 am 11:30 am

McCain is being ridiculous and following the myopic nature of foreign policy Bush had adopted.
For example, in the case of Iran, the preconditions were that Teheran immediately stop the production of nuclear power, before they even start talking, WHEN THE TALKS were supposed to be to persuade Teheran to STOP THE PRODUCTION of nuclear power.
Does anyone find this ridiculous???

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 11:31 am 11:31 am

It really is all falling apart for BushCO, isn’t it? From Powell to this one, all his cronies are making it clear that he failed us across the board. I’m so glad I never voted for the jerk.

Posted by: HeidiL | October 27, 2008, 11:31 am 11:31 am

samhiguchi,
There is a difference between meeting without preconditions and low level meetings. But what Obama stated was… there will be preparation. Starting with low level meetings.

Posted by: Vanessa | October 27, 2008, 11:32 am 11:32 am

Common sense not petulance.

Posted by: doug | October 27, 2008, 11:33 am 11:33 am

Barack Obama specifically said he would meet with the leaders of our enemies, within the first year of his presidency and without preconditions,
He and others have been trying to pretend he said something different. In the effort to change and obfuscate what Obama said, many have misrepresented what McCain/Palin object to and even what is currently being done.
It is a travesty that Obama isn’t forced to honestly confront what he said he’d do. Furthermore, he has said the US can’t hold out Presidential level meetings as some sort of prize, and the US can’t be seen to hold itself above other countries. Finally, he said Iran misbehaves *because* the US does not engage.
All of these positions of Obama’s were stated during primary debates, some even on ABC. It would be worth looking at those, rather than allowing the opinions of other people to misrepresent what Obama actually says and feels about the US role in foreign policy.

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 11:35 am 11:35 am

another blow to mcbush

Posted by: earthisnotflat | October 27, 2008, 11:39 am 11:39 am

Once again, another sensible and experienced voice arguing against McCain. No doubt most current and former diplomats are voting for Obama (especially ones who have been on the receiving end of McCain’s temper).
George Bush’s foreign policy has been a complete disaster. And John McCain show’s his complete lack of vision and ideas by simply wanting to be a Bush ditto-head.
McCain can claim he has experience, but he hasn’t shown anything in the way of good judgment or temperament to lead our country’s foreign policy.
Take the issue of Georgia. McCain completely went overboard in a way that was totally divorced from our real national interests. He’s all about good guys and bad guys. He wants to be a demagogue on everything Russia… kick them out of the G-8, keep them out of the WTO, and embroil the U.S. in every ethnic conflict on the Russian border.
But for what ends? It makes absolutely zero sense for the U.S. to be any way involved in the Georgian conflict, other than to assure that U.S. companies can participate in an oil pipeline project.
But we have absolutely nothing to gain in having Georgia trying to fight and re-occupy South Ossetia and Abkhazia, whose peoples are ethnically and linguistically completely different from the Georgians.
We already have 2 wars going. After seeing McCain’s performance in August, who can doubt that McCain would take on Iran and Russia in an overly beligerant way and drag us into another military and political miscalculation.
McCain is dangerous, just as GOP Senators Domenici, Cochran, and Smith have warned us.
“The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded.”
Sen. Thad Cochran (R-Mississippi)

Posted by: Bud | October 27, 2008, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Vanessa, no the preparations came after he got so much flack for saying without precondition. It was and is a spin added after the fact.

Posted by: samhiguchi | October 27, 2008, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Hang the ego crap. If it would save the life of one soldier, we should talk to even Lucifer himself if need be. If all else fails, then war.

Posted by: Beto | October 27, 2008, 11:42 am 11:42 am

Obama was correct about diplomatic talks with other countries. People need to forget partisan politics and use common sense when analyzing Obama stance he will have diplomatic contact with other nations. No president would ever just go have diplomatic meeting with “enemy” country without safety, certain preconditions. John McCain attacking upon this stance is absurd! Does he actually think American voters are that ignorant???

Posted by: Sharonklim | October 27, 2008, 11:43 am 11:43 am

A: Two kids at school get in an argument and start fighting with words. You get them separated for a little “think time”. Then you get them to talk to each other and sort things out in a civilized fashion.
B: Two kids get into it at school. You get them separated. You tell them they are not to go near each other. You make sure they sit in opposite corners and never have contact with one another again until they are sorry for what they did.
Which is the better way of handling the situation? A or B
In the case of A by talking they may discover that they misunderstood one another—they may discover they agree on more than they disagree—they may discover nothing other than that each is hard headed.
In the case of B they will probably never know anything except that they are enemies—it will fester like a boil and erupt in all out war after school, on the way home, etc.

Posted by: George | October 27, 2008, 11:47 am 11:47 am

samhiguchi,
Preconditions are not just stuff like, “ceasefire”, then we start talking. Many times, it’s an attempt to solve the problem before even engaging the country.
For example, telling Iran to stop producing nuclear power, then we’ll start talking, when our goal is to persuade them to stop uranium enrichment in the first place. Expecting them to meet such preconditions is ridiculous.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 11:47 am 11:47 am

Now y’all can spin O’s statements anyway you want, but what he said is what he said.
At A July 2007 Debate, Obama Announced He Would Personally Meet With Leaders
Of Iran, North Korea, Syria And Other Hostile Nations “Without Precondition.”
QUESTION: “[W]ould you be willing to meet separately, without precondition,
during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else,
with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to
bridge the gap that divides our countries?”… OBAMA: “I would. And the reason
is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment
to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this
administration – is ridiculous.” (CNN/YouTube Democrat Presidential Candidate
Debate, Charleston, SC, 7/23/07)

Posted by: samhiguchi | October 27, 2008, 11:48 am 11:48 am

Once again Obama’s ideas are shown to be well thought-out and approved by experts on the topic. When these experts also include long-standing Republican political figures, as well as Republican military leaders coming forward to say Obama’s ideas are superior, we have a true leader. We should be able to see his ability to reach across the aisle for the best, most workable ideas to make our country stronger and more secure, as a rare gift. Obama’s strong respectful leadership style is what we need to unite our country for a better future and to talk to other world leaders. We can imagine his picks for diplomats will have these same positive attributes. (No angry John Bolton’s, please.) He doesn’t habitually sneer, roll his eyes or show outward signs of anger. This trait of respectful, calm, logical thinking attracts like minded people no matter what political party they belong to. We’ve all been in tense workday situations with hot-headed bosses. No one wants to tell bad news or criticize unworkable strategies with them. Meetings are unproductive as a result. Same with teachers that anger easily. Studies have shown that people don’t perform at their best when their leader is a ‘yeller’.
With all the problems we have today we need a leader who can think clearly and unite us. Obama is that leader.

Posted by: Lydia | October 27, 2008, 11:48 am 11:48 am

QUESTION: In 1982, Anwar Sadat traveled to Israel, a trip that resulted in a peace agreement that has lasted ever since.
In the spirit of that type of bold leadership, would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?
COOPER: I should also point out that Stephen is in the crowd tonight.
Senator Obama?
OBAMA: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration — is ridiculous.
(APPLAUSE)
Now, Ronald Reagan and Democratic presidents like JFK constantly spoke to Soviet Union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them and they may pose an extraordinary danger to this country, but we had the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward.
And I think that it is a disgrace that we have not spoken to them. We’ve been talking about Iraq — one of the first things that I would do in terms of moving a diplomatic effort in the region forward is to send a signal that ***we need to talk to Iran and Syria because they’re going to have responsibilities if Iraq collapses.
They have been acting irresponsibly up until this point. But if we tell them that we are not going to be a permanent occupying force, we are in a position to say that they are going to have to carry some weight, in terms of stabilizing the region.****
[snip]
CLINTON: Well, I will not promise to meet with the leaders of these countries during my first year. I will promise a very vigorous diplomatic effort because I think it is not that you promise a meeting at that high a level before you know what the intentions are.
I don’t want to be used for propaganda purposes. I don’t want to make a situation even worse. But I certainly agree that we need to get back to diplomacy, which has been turned into a bad word by this administration.
And I will purse very vigorous diplomacy.
And I will use a lot of high-level presidential envoys to test the waters, to feel the way. But certainly, we’re not going to just have our president meet with Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez and, you know, the president of North Korea, Iran and Syria until we know better what the way forward would be.
(APPLAUSE)

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 11:48 am 11:48 am

What is most ridiculous about McCain’s foreign policy strategies is his plan to rely on his so-called league of democracies to continue Bush’s unilateral approach. So under McCain, we won’t talk to rogue states and won’t seek active cooperation from countries like China and Russia. This is just a replay of his divisive domestic political and policy strategies in the foreign policy arena. Narrow-mindedess best describes his political instincts.

Posted by: teddymaniac | October 27, 2008, 11:52 am 11:52 am

It is just sheer logic! We are already and frequently “talking” to our friends, but if we would like to resolve issues, we must be prepared to “talk” to our adversaries. This does not mean inviting them to our house for dinner, but rather, we can make initial contacts, through common friends and see whether anything can be accomplished. Unlike McSame who would like to raise the spector of another “cold-war” like atmosphere, driving factions further apart, to re-enforce his foreign policy credential – which of course is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG in this global world we now live in. He can only relate to the ancient past, where we are constantly bickering with one another for a one-upmanship. We should all reject the same old McSame policies and listen to the numerous voices of reasoning.

Posted by: Karen | October 27, 2008, 11:53 am 11:53 am

from the NYSun later that week, Obama doubled down:
***Mr. Obama stood by his pledge to meet with the presidents of Iran, Venezuela, and Cuba during his first year in office if elected president.****
That promise, made in Monday night’s debate, has been the focus of a week of sparring between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama, making the contest feel this week increasingly like a two-person race. In likening Mrs. Clinton to President Bush and Vice President Cheney,….
“It is no longer sufficient to trot out the old formulas, the old tired phrases. If we want fundamental change, then we can’t be afraid to talk to our enemies. I’m not afraid of losing the p.r. war to dictators,” Mr. Obama said to prolonged applause. “I’m happy to look them in the eye and say what needs to be said… I don’t want a continuation of Bush-Cheney. I don’t want Bush-Cheney lite, I want a fundamental change.” …
Speaking later in the day on a conference call for reporters*****, Mr. Obama stood by his assertion that Senator Clinton’s refusal to meet to meet with foreign despots during her first year in office on the grounds put her on similar footing with Mr. Bush.****

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 11:53 am 11:53 am

There is no way we can win in this world without talking! That is plain, simple, and direct.
If anyone thinks we can just blow our enemies away, I would say that you are a nut case.
You can talk abouit preconditions, preperations, and what they mean untill you are blue in the face, but facts are they probably mean something different depending on which country we are talking about, and who is talking.

Posted by: Thinking | October 27, 2008, 11:56 am 11:56 am

Thank you for posting his exact statement, I tried, but the marked me as spam LOL Don’t like what they say mark them as spam ABC and the Obots are so obvious!

Posted by: samhiguchi | October 27, 2008, 11:58 am 11:58 am

this guy is a nitwit….
————
“I’m not saying the next president should sit down immediately with Ahmadinejad. We should initiate contact at a lower level to investigate whether it’s worth putting welcome to the president’s prestige on the line.
————-
Welcome to John McCain’s point you nitwit.

Posted by: joe | October 27, 2008, 11:59 am 11:59 am

I guess Mr. Burns forgot that Amb Ryan Crocker, our highest State Dept. official in Iraq has spent the last two years trying to engage Iran to no avail.
This summer Secretary Rice permitted his successor to engage in multi-lateral talks with Iran says Mr. Burns. HHe call this a good first step.
Well fat lot of good that step did us. The Iranian response was that the US must evacuate the middle east and stop supporting Isreal before THEY will meet with us.
How much further does Mr. Burns want Uncle Sam to bend over and get kicked up the butt by the Iranian regime.

Posted by: JAZ | October 27, 2008, 11:59 am 11:59 am

samhiguchi,
You’re right but I trust Obama to have preparation done before meeting with ex. Ahmadinejad.
It’s a much better policy then McCain’s which is the other side must give into our commands before we’re able to talk.
It won’t happen. If we follow this strategy Ahmadinejad will definitely obtain nuclear weapons.

Posted by: Vanessa | October 27, 2008, 12:01 pm 12:01 pm

McCain is unbelievably naive thinking he can start some “League of Democracies” to face down transnational threats.
That’s what we have the United Nations for, McCain. You’re not going to help if you have a parallel organization competing with UN. You make it harder for the UN to intervene unilaterally. The UN has credibility because practically the whole world is a member of it- rogue governments like Iran too.
That is neccessary if we want to be able to engage them in some way. Isolating them will just legitimize them, and they won’t change their ways. McCain calls Obama naive when it comes to foreign policy, but if anything, Obama’s the hardened realist. Obama understands you can’t start some freaking “League of Democracies”. You need to talk to your enemies, as much as we find it distasteful to associate with them. Our military has limits, and we should not waste the lives of American soldiers like this when we can solve a problem in a more constructive manner. Obama understands the need for pragmatism and diplomacy.
McCain is an idealist to think we can just throw our military weight around to frighten people into submission all the time, that America doesn’t have to give a crap about what people around the world think of us. He’s wrong on all those counts. Sarah Palin thinks we shouldn’t second-guess Israel if Israel invades Iran. THAT is unbelievably naive.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:01 pm 12:01 pm

The Europeans have been talking to the Iranians for the last 4 years regarding Irans plans to build a nuclear bomb.
There has been no positive results in all those talks, it has just emboldened and provided Iran more time to develop their programs.

Posted by: Will Stanton | October 27, 2008, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm

Mr. Tapper,
Have you posted even one story about a democrat that is now voting for McCain?
Has your exhaustive investigation simply not turned up one, or are you only interested in posting GOP defectors? Or maybe, since you have spent the entire campaign with the Obama campaign, you just pass along their press announcements.

Posted by: jack | October 27, 2008, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm

jack,
Well, there are simply hardly any high-profile Democrats voting for McCain.
There’s lots of Republicans voting for Obama/Biden, though :)

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm

Even she is missing the point…its not whether “we” should engage in talks, because we clearly have with the PDRK, Libya, even Iran, at a low level.
It is whether the president should engage in direct “summits” and the like…

Posted by: Wade | October 27, 2008, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm

We need CHANGE. We need to do things differently. The whole world is waiting. McCain and Bush are two in one.

Posted by: FM | October 27, 2008, 12:08 pm 12:08 pm

Mccain Doesnt and Wouldnt know how to Talk with Our Enemies, look he couldnt Even look at Obama in the Debates Mccain will only Drop Bombs he is a WAR MONGER!

Posted by: Angie | October 27, 2008, 12:09 pm 12:09 pm

“I’ve been struggling to find the real wisdom and logic in this Republican assualt on Obama.”
So have many of us. But then we’re dealing with someone who sang “bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran;” said we should “annihilate North Korea;” thought invading Iraq was such a swell idea that we’d be greeted as “liberators;” and reacted with over-the-top bellicosity to the Russia/Georgia situation.
This guy scares me because I think he simply can’t help viewing everything from a military rather than strategic and diplomatic perspective. Teddy Roosevelt said “walk softly and carry a big stick.” John McCain wants to bellow and roar with little or no capacity to back it up.

Posted by: Brooklyn Democrat | October 27, 2008, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

Vanessa after Biden’s warning last week, there is no way I could agree that Obama would be a better choice
I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. “And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you – not financially to help him – we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

Posted by: samhiguchi | October 27, 2008, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

Barack Obama specifically said he would meet with the leaders of our enemies, within the first year of his presidency and without preconditions,
Posted by: MayBee | Oct 27, 2008 11:35:51 AM
——
Obviously we have some second language learners on here.
The question was:
-”…would you be willing to meet…?”
Notice, Obama said he would be “willing” to meet, that doesn’t mean he promised to or said he would meet.
His point was that there is no reason to unilaterally declare yourself so impotent that you can not sit down and talk with people on basic issues.
So, perhaps some of you need to consult an online dictionary to learn the semantic differences between “willing” and “will”.

Posted by: Bud | October 27, 2008, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm

In my opinion: the question isn’t whether McCain would sit down with Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, McCain has shown in his campaign he is willing to lie and deceive the American People to get into the office of President. The Question is: would Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or any other foreign leader, waste their time negotiating with a deceitful liar. I feel this disqualifies Senator John McCain for the Presidency of the United States.

Posted by: DGC | October 27, 2008, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm

pshaw, pshaw, shame on you Jake for circulating mis-truths. The difference between McCain and Obama is that Obama said he would talk with the terrorist leaders “without any preconditions”. Even Sen. Biden said Obama gave “Wrong Answer” on negotiating unconditionally with hostile foreign leaders. In addition, both Hillary and McCain who are more experienced in Foreign Policy matters concur that Obama was naive and short-sighted. In Foreign Policy, McCain does agree and support talking to foreign leaders, with pre-conditions for the negotiations.

Posted by: Jack | October 27, 2008, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm

Obama – continues to say the obvious of preconditions – the problem is clearly hated and childishness – Republicans appear to be CUCKOO – The Republican argument are based on smear, hate, or GOD told me to tell you to get your act together Obama and other continue to say of course “PRECONDITION” is a part of the process – and the HATEFUL REPUBLICAN continue to childish CRY

Posted by: cuckooforcocapuff | October 27, 2008, 12:16 pm 12:16 pm

samhiguchi,
Biden was just saying any president would be tested. And it’s true. We have situations developing all over the world now- nothing to do with the election. The stand-off in Zimbabwe for one. The genocide in Sudan, for another. The Ossetian conflict.
McCain sees everything as having to charge in with guns blazing, to act “tough”. No boy cowboy antics, please. We don’t need to “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.” I would like to know if McCain thought about those Iranian women and children who have absolutely no control over the vitriol their president is spouting- Iran isn’t exactly a democracy, after all.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

Whoops:
No more* cowboy antics, I meant.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

GreyMatter, yes I know what he was saying the parts you choose to ignore are when he said:
“And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you – not financially to help him – we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”
If Obama’s response to such a crisis isn’t apparent that it is right, then that would make it WRONG!

Posted by: samhiguchi | October 27, 2008, 12:21 pm 12:21 pm

Have you posted even one story about a democrat that is now voting for McCain?
————————-
Are there any high profile Dems siding with McCain?

Posted by: Straight Talking Maverick | October 27, 2008, 12:23 pm 12:23 pm

I’ll take Obama’s level head and reason over an eratic knee-jerk reactionary who still lives in 1950′s Cold War America.
And so will the MAJORITY of Americans.
President Barack Hussein Obama!

Posted by: No contest | October 27, 2008, 12:26 pm 12:26 pm

samhiguchi,
Many Americans are under the notion that it is in no way excusable to “talk” to your enemy and that we cannot even associate with them. Some harbour that reservation.
McCain is just not being realistic. You can’t expect Iran to be wowed by our military might and going, “America, we will bow down to your greatness!” Countries like Iran like defying America whom they regard as being an imperialist. They like the fact that they are “Standing up” to this superpower. You NEED to engage them. You can’t expect them to stop their uranium enrichment before they talk to you about stopping their uranium enrichment.
His League of Democracies, as I have said below, is plain unrealistic.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:26 pm 12:26 pm

Straight Talking Maverick,
I think Joe Lieberman is the only one…

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm

What is missing in all this hyperbole is the fact that Iran has stated Israel will be annihilated and the denial that the Holocaust ever happened. Iran also refuses to recognize Israel as a state, a sovereign Nation.Then there is the small matter of the last time the US had an embassy in Iran, it was attacked and the Americans captured where held hostage for over a year.
Israel is an ally of the USA, Iran is not.
Iran seeks legitimacy of its radical policies and hateful discourse. Only a naive fool would seek diplomacy with radical terrorists.
The United Nations needs to exit, stage left, off US soil and go find a home in some other country. The USA needs to abandon any membership in the UN.
Apparently Barry is from the Neville Chamberlain school of diplomacy.
The MSM has bent over backward to cover Barrys butt on his foreign policy remarks since he first uttered them. As an added plus he can always ask “Roosevelt went on TV” Biden for help with policy. The same Biden who has since the 1970′s voted wrong on every foreign policy matter the US was involved in.

Posted by: CrystalD | October 27, 2008, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm

Wow. Top man on Iran for 3 years and did not ever meet an Iranian.
Republicans are stupid. Bush and McCain = dumb and dumber.

Posted by: Pete | October 27, 2008, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

If Obama’s response to such a crisis isn’t apparent that it is right, then that would make it WRONG!
—————————
No. You are incorrect.
Many US generals thought during the Cuban missle crisis we should just bomb the hell out of Cuba and start WWIII.
The use of an embargo and negotiation was not “apparent” to be right to the leaders of our military.
However, the solution that Kennedy pursued WAS the RIGHT solution.

Posted by: Straight Talking Maverick | October 27, 2008, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

samhiguchi,
You left out this portion of the Biden quote.
“We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America”
The next president will be tested. Whether it’s McCain or O

Posted by: Vanessa | October 27, 2008, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

AS far as I know, we already do talk to our enemies… just not direct talking, as you don’t want the POTUS to be a stooge.

Posted by: Leisa | October 27, 2008, 12:32 pm 12:32 pm

samhiguchi,
You left out this portion of the Biden quote.
“We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America”
The next president will be tested. Whether it’s McCain or Obama.
It happened w/ Bill Clinton and Bush. With the state of our economy and our military stretch… the next president will be tested.
My #1 issue is the economy and that’s why I voted Obama.

Posted by: Vanessa | October 27, 2008, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm

CrystalD,
How do you suppose America deals with this problem them? Bomb them into submission? Nevermind all the dead Iranian civilians relegated to “collateral damage” and the destabilizing effect on the region? Invade them? Nevermind the blood shed of our American soldiers and the limits of the military? Nevermind giving more fanatics reason to join Al-Qaeda?
The Iranians used to look up to America, you know. That was until the CIA initiated a coup that overthrew a man who could have become Iran’s democratically elected leader and reinstated the Reza Shah- a dictator who was not unlike Saddam in dealing with his political enemies.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm

I think Joe Lieberman is the only one…
—————
Half true. But he’s an Independent, not a Democrat.
He’s like the kid no one wanted on their kickball team. The Shleprock of national politics. Bad luck for whomever he supports.

Posted by: Straight Talking Maverick | October 27, 2008, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm

McCain is not against low level talks:
[snip]
“McCain would continue current U.S. policy of using the U.N. Security Council to press Iran to give up the most troublesome aspects of its nuclear program. That means that both global sanctions and the offer of negotiations would be on the table, so long as the Security Council’s other permanent members insist on that dual approach.
McCain does not rule out U.S. face-to-face discussions with Iran but says a presidential-level meeting would be counterproductive.
“Such a spectacle would harm Iranian moderates and dissidents as the radicals and hard-liners strengthen their position and suddenly acquire the appearance of respectability,” McCain said.”
[snip]
What McCain is against, and what Obama said he’d be willing to do, is meet at a presidential level within the first year with no preconditions.
Any other argument on Obama’s behalf is specious.

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm

I’m disappointed by this person’s IQ.
McCain agreed the talk in lower-level.
McCain agreed talk in president level only if precondition met.
McCain didn’t say ‘absolutely no talk with enemies.’
Understood?

Posted by: golfgirlusa | October 27, 2008, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm

Straight Talking Maverick,
From the looks of it, he’s beginning to regret it now that it looks like Obama is going to be his superior.
Read somewhere he was back-tracking and saying how he had said “respectful” stuff about Obama.
I think McCain just loves saber-rattling. Why does he have to say: When I look into [Putin's] eyes, I see three letters: K G B. I do not want another Cold War, thank you. If we’re unlucky, it won’t be “Cold”.
There is nothing pragmatic about McCain. He thinks he can start some league of democracies. Okay WHAT? He’s just going to be undermining the UN when we should be trying to make the UN more effective in engaging countries like Iran and North Korea.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:41 pm 12:41 pm

Burns also said: “The brilliance of Gen. David Petraeus’s strategy in Iraq was, in part, to build bridges to formerly bitter foes in the Sunni militias and to cajole and entice them to switch sides. Some are now suggesting that we should deploy a similar strategy with the Taliban rank and file.”
Funny the guy who put his career on the line to advocate the Petreaus policy that Burns lauds is McCain, the guy he criticizes in this article. Conversely, Obambi was the one who wanted to cut off our negotiations with the Sunni tribal leaders and withdraw from trying to “cajole and entice them to switch sides.”
The Surge worked because we were able to get to the leaders on the ground in Iraq who were fighting for survival against Shia militias and Al Queada. You don’t get to talk to those people when you sit down with the leadership in Iran or even with their low level envoys. In fact, you harm the cause of those on the ground who are fighting the Iranian leadership.
I cannot believe that such unintelligent and immature thought can come from a guy who has been the top foregn policy official in both Democrat and Republican adminstrations?!!
If this is the best and brightest in the State Dept no wonder our foreign policy has been such a disaster over the last 20 years.

Posted by: JAZ | October 27, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

golfgirlusa,
The issue is if he still thinks this way. Maybee, could you cite the date?
The old John McCain, I actually agreed with more. The old John McCain actually opposed Bush tax cuts and appeared to have more sense.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

Bud-
If you think the argument is between whether Obama “would meet” or “would be willing to meet”, then I don’t know what to say.
The argument is that Obama said he would either be willing or would meet with the leaders in his first year, with no preconditions.
And people defend him by pointing out how others support some low-level talks.
There are people that think meeting with our enemies at a Presidential level without preconditions within the first year is a good idea. Find those people to defend Obama. But don’t find someone who says something entirely different to defend Obama (and attack McCain, when McCain actually does agree with the idea of low-level diplomacy).

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

samhiguchi — What did Biden say that wouldn’t apply with equal force to John McCain?? …… except that Biden didn’t vouch for McCain’s temperament and ability to handle the crisis. Face it: there IS going to be a test, no matter who is elected. There has been for every new president in recent memory. We’ve had a sneak preview at how the two men react to a crisis (the economic crash) and I, for one, do NOT want McCain’s erratic, illogical, beligerant behavior applied to an international crisis. Why the caution about needing support? Because Obama IS different. Just as he has run his campaign in unexpected, but very effective, manner, his response to a crisis may be not what we’re accustomed to — but as effective as his non-traditional campaigning. Biden was simply saying: have faith in him, I’m vouching for the fact that he’s extraordinarily competent. ——– Biden’s only mistake was that he was speaking as if the election was already won and he didn’t add the obvious “John McCain would also be tested by our enemies and he wouldn’t deal with it as well or effectively.” McCain’s argument that he’s been “tested” because he was there during the Cuban Missle Crisis is just ridiculous. How does sitting in a plane waiting for intructions to be radioed to you equate with being in the Oval Office deciding what instructions to send?

Posted by: Elizabeth | October 27, 2008, 12:43 pm 12:43 pm

George, the initial supposition is off by a bit, foreign policy relations is not about kids. You have a hostile leader who hates the US for years and has nuclear bombs and is ready to launch against your ally in the region, you go in without preconditions, which even Biden said Obama was wrong. Hillary and Mccain and most agree that Obama is wrong about his negotiations policy. Sen Liberman supports McCain, my guess is this probably had something to do with McCain has more experience, which gives McCain a clear advantage in developing sound approaches and policies in the Foreign Relations and Policy arenas.

Posted by: Jonber | October 27, 2008, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

Grey Matter- that is from June 6, 2008.
I’m sure there are others.
To my knowledge, McCain has never said he is against low-level talks with Iran, etc.

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

McCain would shoot first and talk second.

Posted by: William J. LePetomaine | October 27, 2008, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

It’s the “politics of spectacle” nonsense the neocons love so much. If our president talks directly to their president, we are giving legitimacy to their president that he or she doesn’t deserve, since if the people of that rogue nation were to select their own leaders, it wouldn’t be whoever is currently in charge. The neocons think imagery is far more important than pragmatism; think “Mission Accomplished.” Kinda like Juan Peron and Francisco Franco.

Posted by: gjdodger | October 27, 2008, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

remember “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran?” McCain is a hothead. Does not have the temperment for a crisis.

Posted by: William J. LePetomaine | October 27, 2008, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

>>Vanessa, no the preparations came after he got so much flack for saying without precondition. It was and is a spin added after the fact.<<<
———-
Or maybe he assumed that adequate preparation is such an obvious part of any meeting like that that it didn't have to be spelled out? Be realistic. We've watched Obama handle decision-making and his actions for almost two years now: he's thoughtful, extremely thorough and is always thinking two or three steps ahead. You may not like his decisions, but you have to grant him that much about how he makes them. (In great contrast to McCain, I should note.) If you look at the investigation and preparation he put into selecting a VP, how can you argue that he would not take meeting with a foreign head of state very, very seriously and make full preparation. It doesn't matter what words he uttered in response to a question in a debate: it matters what he would DO. And there's no way you would ever convince me that Obama wouldn't be fully prepared and wouldn't make sure that all potential traps are mapped out and neutralized. We've SEEN him deal with things like this – that counts more than any words!!

Posted by: Elizabeth | October 27, 2008, 12:49 pm 12:49 pm

The country will need to reinstate the draft if McCain gets elected. We will be fighting too many wars simultaineously to sustain the effort with an all-volunteer force.

Posted by: William J. LePetomaine | October 27, 2008, 12:53 pm 12:53 pm

Maybee,
What I am not comfortable with is when McCain says things like “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!” or when he looks into Putin’s eyes, he sees “three letters- K G B.” It doesn’t help at all.
McCain’s not willing to pursue bin Laden if he’s in our crosshairs in Pakistan. Just sending in a sniper team to take him out, not to invade the country. I don’t see why not.

Posted by: Grey Matter | October 27, 2008, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm

Well-said, Mr. Burns!

Posted by: chuck | October 27, 2008, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm

I’m taking the advice of John McCain’s Republican “friends” from the Senate and in Arizona:
Bob Smith, former senator from New Hampshire: “McCain’s temper would place this country at risk in international affairs and the world perhaps in danger. In my mind, it should disqualify him.”
Sen. Pete Domenici of New Mexico: Talking about McCain, said he doesn’t “want this guy anywhere near a trigger.”
Sen. Thad Cochran of Mississippi said of McCain: “the thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded.”
And an Arizona conservative who has observed McCain since the 80s had this to say in 2000:
“If McCain were to become president, Americans would wake up to more than a commander-in-chief with a prickly temperament and a low-boiling point. McCain is a man who carries get-even grudges. He cannot endure criticism. He controls by fear. He’s consumed with self-importance. He shifts blame.”
“There is also reason to question whether McCain has the temperament, and the political approach and skills, we want in the next president of the United States.”
-former editor and publisher of the Arizona Republic newspaper, Pat Murphy.

Posted by: Bud | October 27, 2008, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm

The issue, Jake (Obama supporter from ABC, no surprise there) was about talking to them unconditionally. The guy you quoted seemed to leave out that key detail. You failed (surely just by accident) to point out that key distinction. Jake, you are such a great Obama campaigner.

Posted by: KMichaels | October 27, 2008, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

It doesn’t matter. Obama supporters aren’t interested and could care less about the Constitution, as long as “their Messiah” gets in.

Posted by: Steave Cuozzo | October 27, 2008, 1:03 pm 1:03 pm

Call the L.A. Times and tell them to release the Obama-Khalidi Tape.

Posted by: Steave Cuozzo | October 27, 2008, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm

To everyone against talking to enemies. Look at the facts. The fact is we haven’t been speaking with anyone low level, conditional or otherwise, and look at the state this country is in. We have more enemies than ever, and we are fighting two wars that destroyed our economy. Al Qaeda wants McCain to win because they know he’s a warmonger that will probably start two more wars if elected and really destroy our standing and country worse.

Posted by: Carol | October 27, 2008, 1:06 pm 1:06 pm

What a crazy year 2008, I hear if Obama loses the election, we will have a civil war!!!

Posted by: aa | October 27, 2008, 1:07 pm 1:07 pm

I’m starting to get a little worried FOR Barak Obama. It is so rare that SO many thoughtful people think you are appropriate on so many issues.
He hardly has any other place to go but down.
I hope he can live up to these varied and lofty expectations.
Swlip,
Go back and check the record. I remember being mortified, and a little amused, that Governor Palin was calling Obama, naive. (It’s a pot and kettle thing).
Sure, they honed the message, after a while, but initially, around the time of the Katie Couric snafu, she was waving her finger in the air, decrying “Naive, naive, I say!”. (Just after declaring “seeing Russia from her house” and refueling in Ireland is foreign policy experience).
I tell you- it just doesn’t get better than that!

Posted by: AndTheHitsJustKeepOnComing | October 27, 2008, 1:08 pm 1:08 pm

ROFLMAO.
“Hero” the last of the right wingers to actually believe the Berg & Martin stories!

Posted by: Ryan C (the actual real one) | October 27, 2008, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm

“McCain has never said he would stonewall our adversaries”
He has consistently ridiculed the idea of talking to our enemies.
Not disagreed with, ridiculed.
“that many Bush cultists are now rapidly becoming Obama cultists”
ROFLMAO.
Ahhh yes the new deluded meme from the right wing. Obama = Bush.
You guys really deserve an electoral drubbing on all fronts.

Posted by: Ryan C (the actual real one) | October 27, 2008, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm

Well, Grey Matter, you are changing the subject now. It’s legitimate to be uncomfortable with McCain, I just object to people arguing against a position he doesn’t have in order to pretend Obama doesn’t have a position that he actually does have.
It is interesting, though, that you are unhappy with the belligerence of McCain and yet criticize him for not being as belligerent about Pakistan as Obama has been. It’s about announcing you’ll invade an ally, not about being willing to follow BinLaden.
Check out what Pakistanis think of Obama.

Posted by: MayBee | October 27, 2008, 1:25 pm 1:25 pm

Obama today packed the Igloo in Pittsburgh with a huge rally.
No word yet on whether the College Republicans were planning another faked racial/political attack.

Posted by: Ryan C (the actual real one) | October 27, 2008, 1:26 pm 1:26 pm

Snore. This is irrelevant to the controversy over Obama’s off-the-cuff gaffe-redefined-and-morphed-into-policy. The question to Obama in the debate was whether HE (not “we”) would sit down and talk “without precondition” with “the leaders” (not some lower level diplomats) of NK, Venezuela, and Iran during his first year in office. He said he would. Everyone, including now him, knows that that was extremely foolish. So don’t get fooled by the new phony debate over whether “we” the “United States” should talk. Even the Bush admin does this, if only through third party channels.

Posted by: Judasmac | October 27, 2008, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm

Poll: Israel votes McCain in US elections
Survey finds 46% of Israelis would vote for Republican nominee if given chance to elect US president; Democrat Barack Obama receives 34% of votes. Almost half of those polled believe McCain would better impact Jewish state
Israel chooses John McCain over Barack Obama in the US presidential elections, a survey conducted by the TNS Teleseker polling agency found.

Posted by: Steave Cuozzo | October 27, 2008, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm

Gallup: Jewish voters nationwide have grown increasingly comfortable with voting for Barack Obama for president since the Illinois senator secured the Democratic nomination in June. They now favor Obama over John McCain by more than 3 to 1, 74% to 22%.

Posted by: Ryan C (the actual real one) | October 27, 2008, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm

There is a MAJOR news story about Obama. WHY WON’T ABC COVER THE STORY? WHY DIDN’T THEY COVER MCCAIN’S SPEECH TODAY?
CAN YOU SAY IN THE TANK????

Posted by: Media Bias | October 27, 2008, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm

Sure! let’s have a chat with Mullah Omar!
Oops!

Posted by: Mesquito | October 27, 2008, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm

Jake,
How does the McCain camp feel about averaging only 47% in polls coming out of Arizona?
More and more solid red states moving into the toss up realm -
North Dakota? Montana?
And now Arizona?

Posted by: Bud | October 27, 2008, 1:48 pm 1:48 pm

Media Bias
what story?

Posted by: questioner | October 27, 2008, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm

I don’t believe that we will have civil war if Obama loses, but I predict that America will decline further with a McCain/Palin ticket. The world has no respect for us after the Bush mess and McCain will be just another Bush.

Posted by: democratic | October 27, 2008, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

We are in the end times.

Posted by: Roman | October 27, 2008, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm

Obama supporters:
stand clear of the flailing legs and tusks of this dying elephant.

Posted by: Omentum | October 27, 2008, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm

head for the hills DEPT….
OxyCon is quoting Alice Cooper as a reason to be anti-Obama…..
back away from the stereo…….

Posted by: Blue | October 27, 2008, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

What Obama said was that he would meet with Castro, etc personally. After being blasted by the MCCain camp he then said he would meet with preconditions. If you recall, Obama said that Kissinger even agreed with him on this issue. Kissinger then released a statement saying that was not true. Do you have selective memories?

Posted by: Linda/Michigan | October 27, 2008, 2:58 pm 2:58 pm

I wonder what McCain considers to be “preconditions?” Are we talking “our way or the highway” or just the shape of the table?

Posted by: Old Soul | October 27, 2008, 3:01 pm 3:01 pm

“What Obama said was that he would meet with Castro, etc personally.”
QUESTION: In 1982, Anwar Sadat traveled to Israel, a trip that resulted in a peace agreement that has lasted ever since. In the spirit of that type of bold leadership, would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?
OBAMA: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration — is ridiculous.
(APPLAUSE)
Now, Ronald Reagan and Democratic presidents like JFK constantly spoke to Soviet Union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them and they may pose an extraordinary danger to this country, but we had the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward.
And I think that it is a disgrace that we have not spoken to them. We’ve been talking about Iraq — one of the first things that I would do in terms of moving a diplomatic effort in the region forward is to send a signal that we need to talk to Iran and Syria because they’re going to have responsibilities if Iraq collapses.
OBAMA: They have been acting irresponsibly up until this point. But if we tell them that we are not going to be a permanent occupying force, we are in a position to say that they are going to have to carry some weight, in terms of stabilizing the region.
“Do you have selective memories?”
Right wingers don’t need selective memories. They just use whatever lie suits them at a given time.

Posted by: Ryan C (the actual real one) | October 27, 2008, 3:11 pm 3:11 pm

Looks like the College Republicans were the ones who sent the hoax photos to Drudge
“Mr. (Dan) Garcia took the widely published picture of Ms. Todd with her injuries. He said he took several photographs with a digital camera to document what had happened. He said he only gave copies of the photos to police and Ms. Todd’s employer, the College Republicans. One photo appeared on The Drudge Report on Thursday, setting off a storm of media attention.”

Posted by: Ryan C (the actual real one) | October 27, 2008, 3:38 pm 3:38 pm

There is a MAJOR news story about Obama. WHY WON’T ABC COVER THE STORY? WHY DIDN’T THEY COVER MCCAIN’S SPEECH TODAY?
CAN YOU SAY IN THE TANK????
Posted by: Media Bias | Oct 27, 2008 1:42:14 PM
__________________________________________
My guess is you probably post a lot of “Obama is a socialist” misinformation too. That means you are really pro-capitalism (I am too).
In that case, News outlets are corporations and must sell advertising and people are tuning McCain out.
So…. to force them to cover a story that is not otherwise “profitable” or in the interest of American “capitalism” – wouldn’t that be “socialism”?

Posted by: just curious | October 27, 2008, 3:57 pm 3:57 pm

Oxycon,
Actually Alice Cooper ran against Nixon in 1972.
It was more of a promo tour, but he was running against Nixon (whom McCain has been often compared to this year because of his nasty campaign).

Posted by: Bud | October 27, 2008, 3:57 pm 3:57 pm

I wonder if anyone has asked McCain why he was not against Bush in 2004? You know when the Right Wing Fundies controlled both houses (Hastert and Delay in the House and Frist in the Senate).
McCain is just a hypocrite. He was comfortable with one party controlling Congress and the Whitehouse in 2004 but when he is losing all of a sudden it is a bad thing. Too bad John, get used to being in the minority.

Posted by: MUCH BETTER THAN A HASTERT, FRIST, BUSH THIRD TERM | October 27, 2008, 4:33 pm 4:33 pm

Concerned in OH
He hasn’t banned any news stations from interviews. Unlike McCain if you ask the slightest question unfavorable you get kick off his plane no matter where the plane is.

Posted by: MM | October 27, 2008, 5:42 pm 5:42 pm

How about this for a topic.
If the democrats here truly believe in spreading the wealth, how about all of you with extra money find someone poorer than you and give it to them. Especially you making 250,000 a year.
Then decide who the hypocrites are.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 27, 2008, 6:04 pm 6:04 pm

Here in NY a blue state we have 2nd and 3rd generation welfare families carrying cell phone, wearing designer clothes while hey there are still job listings in the local papers everyday.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 27, 2008, 6:06 pm 6:06 pm

Talk to your enemies. How well did that do in the past.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 27, 2008, 6:07 pm 6:07 pm

To me, John McCain does not look well physically, mentally or emotionally.
He looked dreadful during some of the debates – off balance and almost unhinged at times.
I will not be putting any of my fate into his hands.
And Sarah Palin has revealed herself as basically a soap opera character with little depth of intellect and a very one-dimensional, almost cartoon view of the world stage.
Again, I would not put any of my fate in her hands.
It’s a pathetic Republican ticket.
8 years of Republicans was enough. The electorate will be rightfully booting the Republicans out of office.
Landslide Democratic win despite all the attempt to use smear tactics during the next few days.

Posted by: pefros | October 27, 2008, 7:09 pm 7:09 pm

Countries have talked with their enemies without preconditions for thousands of years. It is how wars are avoided, relationships are mended and treaties are signed.
This whole notion that meeting without preconditions is naive is in itself moronic. During the civil war, did we require the other side to throw down their weapons before we met with them? Of course not. During the Cold War, did Reagan require Gorbachev to stop building nuclear weapons before he sat down with him and asked about reducing nuclear weapons? No!
Meeting with the enemy does not reduce our power. It does not reduce our stature. It does not raise the enemy’s stature – especially considering we can flatten nearly any country we want to. Meeting with the enemy simply provides us a way of saving lives.

Posted by: johnTX | October 27, 2008, 8:23 pm 8:23 pm

This article is outrageously deceitful. It is actually attempting to misrepresent both candidates’ positions, and most outrageously, to lie about McCain’s position and essentially present McCain’s real position as Obama’s. McCain has not said there should be no negotiations with these countries at any level. He has only made a point over and over again to rule out the talks at the president to president level “without preconditions” because that is what Obama said was his position in a Democratic primary debate, which McCain believes is dangerous. Anyone who actually researches this in some depth, to get to the bottom of the matter, will find that is the case. This article is spin, and it is shameful that parts of it are reprinted here without any “fact-checking.” How many times on this blog have the McCain side’s arguments been “fact-checked” (although it also seems that the fact-checking itself often isn’t so accurate). But here Nicholas Burns and Mr. Tapper provide NO quotes from the candidates, much less any attempt to look at this opinion piece from a self-described “career diplomat, serving both Republican and Democratic administrations” about the positions of the two candidates.
The facts, however, support these conclusions (And note: this issue can easily be distorted because it’s somewhat complicated. There’s the difference between presidential and non-presidential talks to keep in mind, as well as the talks having preconditions or not, and that preconditions are much more crucial for presidential talks, as Nicholas Burns himself implies when he talks of starting at lower-level talks with Iran. There’s also the questions of what preconditions and “preparation” are – “preparation” being what Obama at some point added to his stated position):
1. McCain has consistently supported talks between the U.S. and hostile countries. But he has not held Obama’s position, which is for the President to sit down with these leaders face-to-face without any preconditions. THAT is what Obama said was his position at a primary debate last year (and the original question mentioned “during his first year in office”). Only after some time did he change that to something tougher, “without preconditions but with preparation.” This is McCain talking about his position during the first debate:
MCCAIN: Senator Obama twice said in debates he would sit down with Ahmadinejad, Chavez and Raul Castro without precondition. Without precondition… The point is that throughout history, whether it be Ronald Reagan, who wouldn’t sit down with Brezhnev, Andropov or Chernenko until Gorbachev was ready with glasnost and perestroika. Or whether it be Nixon’s trip to China, which was preceded by Henry Kissinger, many times before he went. Look, I’ll sit down with anybody, but there’s got to be pre-conditions. Those pre-conditions would apply that we wouldn’t legitimize with a face to face meeting, a person like Ahmadinejad. Now, Senator Obama said, without preconditions.
And:
MCCAIN: Of course he (Kissinger) encourages and other people encourage contacts, and negotiations, and all other things. We do that all the time.
Doesn’t McCain’s view happen to be what Nicholas Burns is arguing for – tough diplomacy starting below the presidential level and backed up by the possibility of resulting to force (that is Burns’ position in the article) – even though Burns is also dishonestly saying it’s not McCain’s position? But according to Burns, McCain is against talks and only for the use of force:
“Talking to our adversaries is no one’s idea of fun, and it is not a sure prescription for success in every crisis. But it is crude, simplistic and wrong to charge that negotiations reflect weakness or appeasement.” And, “we need to think more creatively about how to blunt the power of opponents through smart diplomacy, not just the force of arms.”
2. Obama has held a number of positions at the same time. He first said at a primary debate that he’d meet with these leaders “without precondition” during his first year (for a long time never mentioning “preparation,”) yet he also has said that he holds McCain’s actual position, of not starting out at the Presidential level. And at the first presidential debate, Obama lied about his and McCain’s positions. He denied that his position has been having presidential meetings without preconditions, and when McCain criticized him for that, Obama brought up that Kissinger favored talks between the U.S. and Iran “guess what, without preconditions.” But that was confusing the issue and misusing Kissinger’s words, because, again, Kissinger was only talking about talks below the presidential level, not what Obama favored, at the presidential level. And again, McCain was only ruling out such talks at the presidential level, not at lower levels.
Here are the parts of their remarks most relevant to this particular point (text has been removed):
MCCAIN: Senator Obama twice said in debates he would sit down with Ahmadinejad, Chavez and Raul Castro without precondition. Without precondition.
OBAMA: Senator McCain mentioned Henry Kissinger, who’s one of his advisers, who, along with five recent secretaries of state, just said that we should meet with Iran — guess what — without precondition. This is one of your own advisers.
MCCAIN: Look, Dr. Kissinger did not say that he would approve of face-to- face meetings between the president of the United States and the president — and Ahmadinejad. He did not say that.
OBAMA: Of course not.
And:
MCCAIN: And I guarantee you he would not — he would not say that presidential top level.
OBAMA: Nobody’s talking about that.
McCain was right. Kissinger only advocated non-presidential level meetings without preconditions, not presidential ones. Obama said nobody was suggesting presidential ones. But that continues to be his stated position – he’d have presidential talks “without preconditions but with preparation.” If he’s also saying “nobody’s talking about” having presidential talks without preconditions, then he must be conceding that his talk of “preparation” really is precondition, which means that his position has changed even though he’s said it hasn’t. Why else would he so firmly deny supporting presidential talks without preconditions during the debate, saying that of course there would be preparation. He’s trying to have it all ways here.
OBAMA: “There’s a difference between preconditions and preparation. Of course we’ve got to do preparations, starting with low-level diplomatic talks, and it may not work, because Iran is a rogue regime.”
While on the face of it precondition and preparation are two entirely separate things, they are also very related. If the U.S. president requires “preparation” – low-level talks – before he’ll meet these leaders, it is for the sake of our preconditions. There is no reason to have talks (preparation) before a presidential meeting unless that preparation is meant to bring some success on preconditions we set for having presidential talks. And if no progress (no movement towards our preconditions) seems to be made, the presidential meeting won’t happen. As Obama says, lower-level talks “may not work.” Failure in “preparation,” then, can only mean not making progress on our *preconditions* for a presidential meeting. In Iran’s case, if its positions were the same after talks as before them, a presidential meeting won’t happen. See also McCain’s words that I quoted above on Reagan with the Soviets and Nixon with China as well as Nicholas Burns on Libya in his article.

Posted by: Erika | October 27, 2008, 9:30 pm 9:30 pm

johnTX
Wow I missed it. How often did Abe Lincoln sit down with Jeff Davis during the war? I missed that part of my history class.
I do remember when Lee asked General Grant what were the terms of surrender. Grant replied, “unconditional” and only after Lee accepted, Grant was very generous.
JM’s position never was not to talk with our enemies. His position was you don’t have unconditional Presidential meetings with foreign leaders like Obama had stated he would do. Lower level emissaries and diplomats would have meetings as they do today.
This article has built up a strawman that doesn’t exist indicating an extremely dumb position is being taken by JM when it isn’t true.
Then they state it is a dumb position.
Duh

Posted by: Dave in lv | October 28, 2008, 12:54 am 12:54 am

ps Presidential meetings DO raise the stature of the other party.
Duh

Posted by: Dave in lv | October 28, 2008, 12:57 am 12:57 am

“Meeting with the enemy simply provides us a way of saving lives.”
How untrue.
Meetings with Germany allowed them time to build up their forces prior to WW2.
Meetings with N. Korea allowed them time to build an atomic bomb and missile delivery system.
Meetings for 8 years with Iran have allowed them to develop nuclear capabilities.
Would you allow Iran enough time to build a nuclear weapon as well? Many Dems would.
If Iran nuked Israel, would we have more talks with Iran and ask them please stop using nukes, especially against us? Obama at one point said yes.
If Iran or a terrorist received a nuke from Iran and struck the US, would we then enter into another dialog with Iran?
Talking and diplomacy, per Machiavelli is just another form of war.

Posted by: Dave in lv | October 28, 2008, 1:13 am 1:13 am

There is a popular saying, which says “keep your friends close and your enemies, closer.
How do you pre-empt the actions of your enemies if you give them a wide berth?
Ignoring your enemies only strengthens their resolves to hurt you. And you may not see the attack coming. You only realize it when it hits you.
Enough with the “the most powerful nation’s” grandstanding.
What is power without control? What is power without respect?
America needs to earn the respects of nations. The respect for America is at it lowest ebb to-day. It is only with the election to Office, of the right Leaders, that America can heave a sigh of relief.
And the thought that every other nation is planning to attack America is delusional and Politicians have found such propagation of tissues of lies, as a potent tool to getting elected.

Posted by: Dare Nigeria | October 28, 2008, 3:40 am 3:40 am

In the world of Kum ba yah where everyone holds hands and roasts marshmallows over a fire, countries do not have enemies. There is no need to be wary. No one dares to attack another.
In the real world, there are people who believe the USA and or its allies should be hurt, if not destroyed, or they have designs to add power and land to their own countries.
Hitlers of this world exist. Religious fanatics exist.
Once again, talking with other people, even talking with our enemies is fine. But granting unconditional meetings with the President of the US will cause the stature of the US to drop while the stature of our enemies will rise.
Instead of Dems disputing this fact, they deliberately distort the position into a dumb and non-existent idea of not talking to other countries at any level.
Instead of admitting a mistake and moving on, Dems would rather distort the Rep and their own positions to claim they were right all along.

Posted by: Dave in lv | October 28, 2008, 7:36 am 7:36 am

When the President of the United States says he will meet the so-called Enemies without pre-condition, it doesn’t mean that he is going to meet them personally.
What it means, is that he would be willing to send a high official of the Government to meet with the supposed Enemy.
President Bush did it with North Korea. He did it with Iran. High Government Officials met with clan Leaders in Iraq, which contributed to the success of the surge and the Bush’s Government is planning to have a jaw-jaw with the Talibans.
No war is won on the battle field. After the madness, the parties to the feud will always sit at the round-table to iron out their differences.
If peace can be kept without going to War, by talking, then what is the need sending fellow human beings to war to die in a war that will evetually be settled on the round-table?
Iran talking about the annihilation of Israel is empty rhetorics. It is just a way of ensuring that they remain the topic of discussion because not making such inflammatory and empty statements will consign them to “one of the other Countries” and hence, wont be relevant.
Iran doesn’t want to be ignored.
If the American Government wants to make Ahmedinajad irrelevant in Iran, it should stop issuing statements when he decides to engage in his ususal tantrums.
The United Nations wouldn’t have been formed in 1948 if there are no dissenting views among Nations.
Nations will continue to disagree. It is however, in playing the big brother role, by bringing all the rogue nations under your umbrella by talking, that there will be peace in the World.
For the the sole Super Power in the World, America owns the world such responsiblity. With immense power comes immense responsibilities.

Posted by: Dare Nigeria | October 28, 2008, 9:55 am 9:55 am

“When the President of the United States says he will meet the so-called Enemies without pre-condition, it doesn’t mean that he is going to meet them personally.
“What it means, is that he would be willing to send a high official of the Government to meet with the supposed Enemy.”
There can definitely be vagueness about who is being talked about if you just say “meetings between the U.S. and Russia” or “meetings between the U.S. and Iran” because it could mean anyone from the president on down. And presidents and presidential candidates can be talking for the country, and not specifically themselves, when they use the term “I,” such as saying, “I’m willing to meet with these countries.” That’s why clarification can be needed if there is that vagueness. But face-to-face meetings between leaders do happen, and that was clearly meant here. No one has disputed that understanding, and all the debate about it also confirms it. Nicholas Burns’ article speaks of presidential level meetings: “I’m not saying the next president should sit down immediately with Ahmadinejad. We should initiate contact at a lower level to investigate whether it’s worth putting the president’s prestige on the line.” On Obama’s position, Time magazine wrote: “Obama has also been explicit about the need to start with lower-level talks, a presidential summit coming only if there were progress in those negotiations” (“Straw-man Diplomacy”) And Obama himself once said: “The argument was that I would invite Hugo Chavez over to my house, and we’d pop open a beer and we’d start talking…That’s the lack of preparation. There’s no one that would meet another head of state without preparation,” (“Chummy with Chavez,” Factcheck).

Posted by: Erika | October 28, 2008, 4:27 pm 4:27 pm

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