Ideology and Ethics

No matter who wins the election, the mess in America will continue because:
1) no President can fix it by himself
2) the economic turmoil is way past an easy fix — it will take YEARS
3) Congress passes legislation — not the President, so pay more attention to who you vote for in your district for Congress.
FORGET THE ELOQUENT SPEECHES — THERE IS NO RAINBOW IN SIGHT.

Hey Mark Garnett -
Thanks for the lesson in Constitutional law, but the reason Obama is getting elected is because no one buys your conservative view.
Your conservative justices don’t “interpret the founder’s intent”. Your conservative justices interpret the Evangelical Christian Right intent.
In case you’ve never read the Constitution, it calls for:
- Separation of Church and State
- Equality of all people
- Equal protection under law
- Due Process
- Prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment (torture, etc.)
- Right to Privacy (as violated by your Patriot)
So stop this BS about “Conservative judges” because we, the majority who have elected Obama as our next president, can see clearly that only liberal judges belive in the intent AND strict wording of the Consitutuion and in ALL of the Constitutional requiremnts listd above.
The Evangelical party’s over, Mark. You had your day. You ruined Amerca. Now, we’re taking it back for our kids, and for the founders of this great nation.

The years 2008-2012 for the US will be known in history as “The Black Years.”
Doom and gloom ahead.

In order to be World Leader, just how many countries will Osama need to put American troops in? He can’t rule the world as he plans unless there is a U.S. presence in each country. Guess he’ll have to bring back the Draft.

How can anybody in their right mind go for Obama and his socialistic views.
Cons:
1. His plan will drive all of us past the point of no return with his non-economy fix.
2. Let’s not forget he supports anti-Americans like the Rev. Wright, Louis Farrakhan and Bill Ayers and hard left wing radicals, not mainstream Americans.
3. Zero Executive experience!.
4. Zero Foreign Policy Experience!.
5. Votes present on most issues.
6. Will crack when pressed by Pelosi, Reid, Barny Frank, and others.
7. Will raise taxes on everybody with a paying job.
Pro’s
1. At least all the currently unemployed will have to do Community Service to get their welfare checks.
2. All the funny ads he’s running on tv.
Even if it is all BS.

It is most sad to watch a once honorable man become an absolute sleaze bag in pursuit this nation’s highest honor. He is so idologically driven he cannot have a real two-sided conversation with anyone in the press. He controls, manipulates, and simmers if anyone questions the way he is running his nasty campaign.
He hides behind the skirts of his wife and Sarah Palin, sending them out spewing a message guaranteed to drive deeper wedges between Americans, even as we all struggle to accommodate the Republican’s failed and corrupt policies.
Look around, is any agency really working here in the Capitol? Nary a one, and they are all scrambling to right their wrongs as financial world markets crumble.
I fear McCain and Palin’s 15 minutes of fame are coming to a dishonorable end. When the blame game starts, they have only to look in the mirror to discover who caused their gloomy downfalls.
Literally no one is happy about this outcome. America was built on hope and fairness, and with Obama we can restore some of these beliefs both at home and abroad.

GN
It could be that the screen names were mixed up by the poster. Unfortunately, it does happen by mistake. I’ve made the same mistake myself.
I agree, you did not say any of those things and an apology is due.

Thanks This is So Old.
You know none of us are 100% right with our opinions and if we stay aleast civil we may just learn something alot is in print on both sides that when checked out is distorted. In the end no matter who wins we have to live together thats why we all need to remenber we are one nation and one people.

In this day and age color of a persons skin is not a factor, BUT experience is. Look at the facts John McCain may not be perfact but he does have the exp to lead this country with a change for the better.(He is NOT G.Bush)On the other hand I Pray to God Sen.Obama doesn’t make it to the White House. We DO NOT need a Pres. that is going to have to use the learn as we go program, and test the waters. And Sen Obama has done alot of lieing about certain things. Just look @ some of the things his Demc. supporters said while he was falling behind H. Clinton. And if he is elected and this country heads into a tail spin don’t blame the last Pres. Blame it on learn as we go.

Here we go…. I can tell you one thing, there will be fear. I am already afraid to campaign for John McCain, going door-to-door is out of the question and forget the bumper sticker. This thing is getting violent! I guess when Obama told his followers to “get in their face” some of them are taking it literally. A woman was just mutilated in Pittsburg by a follower of Obama. A house was shot up in Florida, signs are destroyed, campaign offices vandalized, etc.. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

to Mark
It is ture. The US constitution does not says “seperation of church and state”
However, a person with an education in English can read the first ammendment and understand that it inferes the church and the state are to be seperate entities.
However, people still refuse to accept this principal and continually force their religious views on others through emotion-based legislation.
Bad American. No soup for you.

Get real Brother!. Who’s playing the card
besides you?.

I find it hard to believe Obama doesn’t take more slack for his ethics. I don’t find his contradictory campaign promises, that he can’t keep, very ethical. Promises to lower the cost of health coverage. Very admirable endeavor. Also promises to make insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions; which is also very admirable. I am sure he is winning lots of votes with them. Too bad he can’t keep both of those promises. Forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions will cause costs to skyrocket. One of many sets of conflicts in his conflicted plan for our country. He has to know he can’t deliver, but he keeps making the promises all day, every day.

Hmmm…. latest poll figures:
October 23, 2008
Florida – Obama 49% – McCain 44%
Pennsylvania – Obama 53% – McCain 40%
Ohio – Obama 52% – McCain 38%
McCain has to lead in 2 of the 3 to win. It doesn’t look too good for him right now.
More Optimistic about the future:
Obama 57% – McCain 31%
One thing that is hurting McCain at the present time is the attack calls sent out by the RNC and the nasty attack ads on TV
I looks like our Soccer Mom doesn’t shop at Walmart anymore. I wonder if she spent a buck or two there out of that $150,000 the RNC gave her for clothes and hair does? There is a question whether it was legal or not to give her that money. Ask the people of Wasilla they will tell you that Palin is all about her!

There was so much talk about Palins wardrobe …I wonder why there was no talk of Obama and his spending …He spent 140,000 for his Greek Columns that were used on the convention night ..I wonder if they were donated to charity ?????? City of Chicago has a 4 million dollar deficit at this current time .i have 2 questions on that .With a deficit that big why on earth is Obama planning a 2 million dollar bash for election night where he may or may not be elected President?????
With a deficit like that and with Obamas major spending practices why do so many believe that Obama is the answer to our Economy ??????
Obama has spent more than 105 million dollars in a matter of 15 days yes thats correct 105 million dollars spent in the time frame of October 1-15 and this is the person that could be in charge of our economy ????? Wake up America .Don’t let your vote be bought or mislead by the mainstream media or as I call it the Obama Media

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.
- Abraham Lincoln
This says it all. You would think Abraham Lincoln wrote this about Obama. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I would rather have a job than a tax cut.

I urge people to think about what they are voting for and not who they are voting for. I do not agree with everything that either of the candidates do, or their characters. However, I do know that America is about being free and having freedoms that other countries don’t. Once we start giving the government control of health care and our right to bear arms, there is a long slipperly slope ahead of us. What other rights will be taken away from us?

Tammy,Tammy: you are so mislead. Obama has caught you in his web of lies. Read ‘common sense’ october 24, 2008 4:50:39 and october 24, 2008 4:55:03 This is a quote from,the wisdom of Abraham Lincoln. read the summation of this quote according to ‘common sense’
Tammy read it and examinne the soul and heart of Barack Obama I think you are in for a rude awakening.

NatFrankie, I urge you to actually read the tax plans of both candidates and vote for who has the better plan. I too have heard the claims from Obama and Biden that John McCain will give you $5000 for your $12000 plan. However, if you read the tax plan that McCain wants, it would only tax health benefits as income. ie. If you make $68,000 – $128,000 and your taxes are 25% then you would be taxed $3000 dollars on the $12000. Then you would recieve a $5000 credit. This actually puts $2000 in your pocket. You can also read Obama’s plan on his site which states “Obama and Biden will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.” This shows that both plans are saving you money, but you actually save more with McCain’s plan. Again, people are concerned that McCain is like Bush, and I understand that concern, but don’t look at the candidates and how good they speak or debate. Look at thier plans and the cold hard facts. I do believe a little research on your part would uncover useful information.

Common Sense: “Patricia, I think you are talking to the wrong person.”
Yes Patricia, you too are an idiot; especially if you believe anything from “Commode Scents”.

Neither McCain or Obama have the right answer or solution that will fix our medical and medical insurance problems.
I would like to talk about somthing no one seems to acknowledge in this area of deep concern; our deductables and medical expenses not covered by insurance.
I think they should be part of medical expense/costs and 100% tax deductable.
Not allowing all medical costs to be ‘deductable’ is like slapping you when your already down. The other costs are so exorbant, anyone with a medical problem and without insurance generally ends up selling their home and filing bankruptcy.
For most of us, we have a yearly deductable we have to exhaust before medical insurance will ever kick in. Back in 1980-86, we owned our own business, we paid over $600 per month with a $500 major medical deductable (2 adults & 3 children). WE NEVER EXHAUSTED OUR DEDUCTABLES. We were never able to use the insurance we paid so much for.
Raising 3 kids, house payments, etc… we just couldn’t afford the insurance any longer. We got behind on the ‘uncovered’ medical bills and had to drop the major medical policy. It was mostly well care baby check ups and imunization expenses for my 3 little ones. NOT COVERED BY INSURANCE OR AN ALLOWABLE CHARGE AGAINST DEDUCTABLE. I needed the $600 per month I was paying to the insurance company for doing ‘nothing’ to pay the medical ‘bills’.
My main point is I feel ALL MEDICAL should be TAX FREE and all medical and insurance should be 100% DEDUCTABLE from our income taxes!
Second, We need to fix the problems the Insurance companies say are driving up the costs of insurance. And we need to lower them.
Medical Insurance Companies are corporate white colar thieves! Where does the money go? To pay hospital and medical services that are covered by insurance?
Not all of it….you want to know where it goes? The independant AND corporate clinics and doctors/dental offices who are falsly charging the insurance companies for services they did not perform so they can make payrols and expenses to stay in business. And the Insurance companies look the otherway. They wouldn’t be in business if it weren’t for the doctors and hospitals business! NOW DAYS, many hospitals and medical clinics are OWNED BY INSURANCE COMPANIES! Does ‘Group Health’ ring a bell? They work hand in hand, scratch each others backs, and we PAY the consequences of their abuse! THEY are the ones who have driven up the costs that have taken jobs away from people who’s employers cannot afford to pay the cost or share the costs of medical insurance for their employees.
By the way, we cannot, must not, tax our employers for our medical insurance. Most employers already don’t provide or share insurance costs, this will make it even harder. Not all companies have a huge profit margin or have corporate board members to give bonuses too. Companies plan growth (new jobs) according to their yearly financial statements. Don’t put the burden on the employers. I guarantee more jobs will be lost over it to cover the ‘expense’.
Back to my discusion about doctors, hospitals, clinics, and Insurance Companies, they should all be AUDITED YEARLY.
They need a check and balance system to verify with recipients of services that they acutally received the services they are being charged for.
This is not a conspiracy theory.
I worked for (I will not mention names) a clinic, who did exactly this! The doctor would look at the appointment book of patients who did and didn’t show up for their appointments that day and who had medical insurance. He would figure out how much he made for the day, and then falsly write up charges to their insurance bill for services ‘he did not do’. Back in those days I was 20 something, stupid, and knew it wasn’t right but didn’t know what to do about it. I needed my job to support me and my daughter. And who am I to blow the whistle on one guy? I didn’t want to be a trouble maker. No one else is going to step forward and support me in something like that.NO way.
Throughout the years, this has been in the back of my mind everytime I go to the doctor. Wondering if they are falsly charging insurance companies the way my previous employer did. I’ve questioned medicines, bandages, etc… that were charged on my bill but not used and their have been many charges from many different doctors. The answer always is: these are standard charges, we always charge for these things. Or “OOOPS, somebody made a mistake, we will take care of that.”
I say “HUH?”….for some reason that doesn’t seem fair or honest. But whom am I to make a fuss. But I did recently catch my dentist charging my insurance for services (full head Xrays) I DID NOT RECIEVE ‘from them’! Yes I had them, but a DIFFERENT dentist, 6 mos earlier did them and was paid for them, rightfully so, and I had brought them with me. This new dentist only xrayed one tooth. The one getting a cap. A HUGE difference in price something like, $60 vs $450. I questioned them on it because when the bill was rejected, the default in their system was to bill me for it! I called them on it. So they said to ignor it and I didn’t have to pay them anything for the one xray, which by the way my insurance WOULD have paid for, and she flat out, rudely, refused to charge them for the ONE tooth xray. She told me to forget about it. The next time I was in his office the dentist stuck me in the chair for 4 rediculous hours! He was supposed to make a cast for a cap. He kept numbing my gum (?what for?) and then take off to do another patient, come back 30 to 45 min later and have to do the novacane again, take off to help another patient, and back and forth. I had three shots of novacane that ‘hurt’ and risked the dangers of being stuck in a chair for 4 hours straight. My mouth braced open with a dam stuck over my tooth…4 HOURS!
I am absolutely sure he was mad at me because I CAUGHT them lying to my insurance company! I had no idea he would hurt and punish me in that way.
Yes, I was very upset. I yelled at them on my way out of their office to cancel ALL MINE and MY CHILDs future dental and cleaning appointments! ANd like all doctors these days, he was a foreigner. I can’t tell the difference between the Indian, Iranian, Iraqis, Isralean, etc… you know what I mean. Dark skinned and an accent.
Just previously to this event, the same dentist had diagnosed my daughters exrays saying she had a cavity she needed drilled. So, at a cleaning ( prior to the appointment for drilling), I asked the hygenist to show me the cavity. She couldn’t find it. She got the doctor, he couldn’t find it. They looked at her xray and her tooth. HE FORGOT WHAT HE SAID ABOUT A CAVITY ON THE PREVIOUS APPOINTMENT. WE EVEN HAD AN APPOINTMENT DATE FOR THE DRILLING! His excuse was ‘It must be there’ we need to drill it anyway. I said NO. Your not drilling her tooth untill you can show me on the tooth or xray where the cavity is. Yes, a very weird experience. I don’t know why I went back to him for my tooth cap, other than I had a temporary on it that needed replaced and they did all the prep work.
Etc…etc..etc… And we are told that the price of Insurance is so high because of the COSTS OF SERVICES?
Our best fight to make this wrong right is to begin with AUDITING the INSURANCE Companies, DOCTORS, DENTIST, and HOSPITALS (my daughters hospital bill, the birth of her son, was way over charged for many things she didn’t get, use, or have) find their abuses and overcharges! I am sure BILLIONS of dollars of abuse will be found. And we don’t need doctors with criminal ethics!
And I said AUDIT not regulate.
I know, fine line between those two….
Catch the criminals and and make them pay back the expenses and take away their license to practice.
Make the insurance companies be more accountable and responsible for a ‘check and balances’ system and keep costs down.
What about a refund on a portion of the Insurance we paid for but never got to, couldn’t, or didn’t use? Or better yet, put it in a money pool and use it for the people who can’t afford insurance and for the elderly and handicapped.
Neither McCain or Obama have the answers that I need!
War or no war. We have a right to protect our country, but what the heck are we doing in Iraq? If they want to catch the terrorist then send some green barret, Navy Seals, and mercenaries over there to do the job.
‘Send in Jack Bower!’ lol
Why are we over there fighting their ‘civil’ war? Weapons of mass destruction? We know everyone has them. That’s not an excuse. We know Russia, China, etc..?? are supposed to have them. When I was growing up it was for sure Russia had the ‘bomb’ and it was supposed to be aimed right at us. I am not saying any of them do or do not have these weapons, I am questioning why are we in Iraq? Why aren’t we after OSAMA? He admits he was the mastermind behind 911. Take out the boss!
I cry for every soldier killed over their! I cry for them and their families. We all lose when someone’s life is lost over there. And we all felt the loss of all those special people killed on 911.
But how do we balance ‘war’ with ‘protecting our country’ from another 911?
Lets talk about the ‘important’ stuff.
And lets question, how is either McCain or Obama going to fix any of these problems?
The President doesn’t have ‘complete control’ over everything. He never has final say about what happens in the White House. He is like a Judge in the courtroom, his job is to keep things ‘orderly’ between legislature’s and that they use proper ‘protocol’ and that they all’follows laws’ already established by a court of their piers. He is the ultimate overseer who gets in trouble, the blame, when others make bad decisions.
I know we think the President has an ‘almighty’ power but in reality, we have so many other people looking over their shoulder scrutinizing everything they do.
I won’t tell you who I voted for, but I will say, I am not looking forward to either of them becoming president. Not because of their characters but because they have an impossible mess to clean up!
Good luck and God Bless us all!

…anybody figure out that you better find out what the change is before you agree to it???