By Julia Hoppock

Oct 29, 2008 1:29pm

In Tarheel State, Obama Tars McCain Presidency as a Disaster for the Middle Class

RALEIGH, NC — Some new language from Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., in his amped-up attacks on Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., this afternoon in Raleigh, NC.

"Because he knows that his economic theories don’t work, he’s been spending these last few days calling me every name in the book," Obama said.

His prepared remarks had Obama next saying, "I’m sorry to see my opponent sink so low," but for whatever reason, he didn’t say the line.

"Lately," Obama said, "he’s called me a Socialist for wanting to roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so we can finally give tax relief to the middle class. I don’t know what’s next. By the end of the week, he’ll be accusing me of being a secret communist because I shared my toys in kindergarten!"

Big cheers in this battleground state, where the latest polls have the race neck and neck.

"I shared my peanut butter and jelly sandwich," Obama ad-libbed, laughing.

(In response, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds later said, “No one cares what Barack Obama does with his toys, but Americans do care that he wants to raise taxes, add a trillion dollars in new spending and redistribute your hard-earned paycheck as he sees fit.")

"Look, that’s his choice," Obama continued. "That’s the kind of campaign he chose to run. But you have a choice, too. The fundamental question in this election is not ‘Are you better off than you were four years ago?’ We know the answer to that. The fundamental question is, ‘Will we be better off four years from now?’

Obama charged that his “opponent is making the same old arguments to justify the same old policies that have been a complete failure for the middle class. I mean, arguments he’s making now are the same arguments that George Bush made! All these years. Kept on saying, you know, ‘If we give tax cuts to all these really wealthy people, its going to help everybody. It will grow the economy.’

“The economy has not been growing,” Obama said, “and the average middle class family is $2,000 poorer now than when George Bush took office. When Bill Clinton was president, your average wages and incomes went up $7,500 — under George Bush, it went down $2,000.”

Obama often criticized the Clinton years during the Democratic primaries as being a mixed bag economically, particularly regarding NAFTA, but as of late, he’s been full of praise for the 42nd president.

He took it one step further today, on a day that will end with a late night rally with the former president in Orlando, Fla., the first time he’ll be campaigning with the husband of his primary opponent Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.

“So, if I’ve got economic theories that are similar to Bill Clinton’s and he’s got economic theories that are similar to George Bush’s,” Obama said, “you can look and see which one worked and which one didn’t.”

Obama said the crowd of 28,000 was “here because we know they shouldn’t get away with it any more. We don’t need another president who fights for Washington lobbyists and Wall Street — we need a president who stands up for hardworking Americans on Main Street, and that’s what I intend to be.

“With six days left, it’s time for the American people to think very hard about what four years of John McCain’s policies would mean for the middle class,” he said, in a new riff. “If Senator McCain is elected, 100 million Americans will not get a tax cut. Won’t see a cent, but the average Fortune 500 CEO will get $700,000 in tax relief, average fortune 500 CEO will get an average of $700,000 — Big Oil will get $4 billion.”

“That ain’t right!” yelled someone from the crowd.

“Somebody said that ain’t right,” Obama said. “Not only is it not right, it ain’t right!”

The crowd cheered.

“If Senator McCain…is elected, your health care benefits will get taxed for the first time in history,” Obama said, “and at least 20 million Americans risk losing their employer-based health insurance. That ain’t right.

“If Senator McCain is elected, we’ll have another president who wants to privatize part of your Social Security,” he continued. “That ain’t right. Can you imagine if you had your Social Security invested in the stock market these last two weeks, these last two months? You wouldn’t need Social Security — you’d be having a, you know, like, ah what was it? ‘Sanford and Son,’" he said, referring to the 70s sitcom featuring Redd Foxx as the owner of a junkyard.

“I’m coming Weezie!” Obama joked, mixing up a line from "Sanford and Son" and a character from "The Jeffersons."

“It ain’t right!” Obama yelled.

“If John McCain is elected,” Obama said, “he won’t make your college tuition affordable. His campaign has no plan to make college more affordable. … So, whether you are Suzy the Student, or Nancy the Nurse, or Tina the Teacher, or Carl the Construction Worker — if my opponent is elected, you will be worse off four years from now than you are today.

“So, let’s cut through the negative ads and the phony attacks,” Obama said. “Under John McCain, the middle class will watch wealth get favored over work, jobs get shipped overseas, and the health care costs and college costs continue to go through the roof. North Carolina, we know that just won’t do. Not this time. It is time for change. It is time to do what’s right for you, what’s right for our economy, what’s right for our country. That’s why I’m running. That’s why we’re here, that’s why we’re going to win on November 4th.”

– Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller

User Comments

Props to Obama as a McCain supporter…”not only is it not right, it ain’t right…” Heh. He is a quick one…

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm

I’m coming Weezy!” Obama joked, mixing up a line from Sanford and Son and a character from The Jeffersons.
Obama would take Jefferson’s hard earned dry cleaning piece of the pie and give it to lazy Fred sitting in the junkyard.

Posted by: geevill | October 29, 2008, 1:48 pm 1:48 pm

I watched this speech on CNN and I was CRACKING UP. Obama was HILARIOUS especially the “kindergarten line” and the “Weezy line”.
Obama was really great in the speech.

Posted by: Karen | October 29, 2008, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm

Wade: It is true. This past week I have seen specialist who have gone over and over both plans, different news stations, different specialists and each one of them said that McCains plan will be a disaster for the Middle Class. You should look a little deeper. A couple of them even said that McCains looked more Socialist than Obamas. Oh by the way, a couple of them are Republicans.

Posted by: becky | October 29, 2008, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm

geevill: Thank you for posting that. I heard that speech the other day. He is sooo right, we need education, good education, but it will come to us at a cost in the beginning, but will pay off highly in the long run. There are so many wasted minds because of the lack of the education they need. We need young good minds in our Technology, Health.. etc. and Obama is the one that will work toward that. Also, if you feel good about yourself than it does make you a better person.

Posted by: becky | October 29, 2008, 1:55 pm 1:55 pm

Obama doesn’t share. He takes from you and gives it to someone else.

Posted by: geevill | October 29, 2008, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm

No Obama Next you will be an Alien from Mars or Jupiter, Love the PBtJ sanwich Comment. you know whats sad Obama has never attacked Mccain Personally he has only attacked his policies, Obama has true class wish i could say the same for Mccain.

Posted by: Angie | October 29, 2008, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm

DID IT ESCAPE John McCain’s attention that as he splits his time worrying about people making $250,000 or more and engaging in the character assassination of his opponent that he (Mr. McCain) has spend NO time worrying about the middle class?
DID IT ESCAPE John McCain’s attention that his program endangers the employer provided health insurance and promises a new environment where states have no power to protect patient’s rights?
DID IT ESCAPE John McCain’s attention that when you divert the Social Security taxes to private accounts, there is no money to pay for the Social Security benefits of current retirees?
DID IT ESCAPE John McCain’s attention that it was his duty to think of the welfare of the nation when he chose his VP, NOT the welfare of his campaign?

Posted by: John | October 29, 2008, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm

Socialism, Communism, Marxism, the Press, the Un-American part of the country all against McCain, all lumped together, sounds like paranoia to me.

Posted by: Thinking | October 29, 2008, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm

geevill
Unless you are making $250,000 a year or more I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
If you own your own small business and making less than $250,000 a year you have nothing to worry about.
Your taxes will be cut and you will be receiving more on your paychecks because of it.

Posted by: becky | October 29, 2008, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm

Becky, thanks, but I don’t agree. I don’t think Obama will stop at $250K. The current crisis is a function of a lot of republican and democratic mistakes, not just “the faaaailed poolicies of the last eight years” The tax cuts had absolutely nothing to do with the crisis, and that is what Obama points to. Flat wrong.
Also, I really don’t believe the answer is soaking the rich…even the tax on the top 5% doesn’t appeal to me…it won’t help me in the slightest.
McCain offers the same tax cut for the “middle class” and I think he will follow through.
The taxing of benefits thing…I agree, I would oppose the plan as currently written…however, it would be better than a Universal system, which to me is a slippery slope to it being illegal to obtain private care, as in Canada. Maybe not…
Also, McCain was right on the surge, and nobody believed him. Now, Obama rides that success as if McCain had nothing to do with it. We are winning.

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm

“are you better off than you were four years ago?”
Yes I am. Hardwork still pays off.
Of course, Obama will put an end to that. One shouldn’t be TOO competitive, too secure, or too healthy. We have to spread the wealth, ya know.

Posted by: len | October 29, 2008, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm

Thinking,
A QUESTION FOR YOU:
Is John McCain willing today to call for the end of all redistributive government policies, including:
A) Social Security
B) Medicare
C) Unemployment insurance
D) All local property taxes
E) All local sales taxes
F) Federal pork heading to Alaska, the number ONE recipient per person of federal funds.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION:
Is John McCain a socialist/marxist/redistributionalist, by his own definition?

Posted by: John | October 29, 2008, 2:07 pm 2:07 pm

“I’m coming Weezy”!!!

Posted by: Joseph | October 29, 2008, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm

There will not be a middle class if Obama is President. No one will hire us and Corporations will all pay minumum wage to offset taxes and fines that Washington has for them. There is already preparation in my Company. 15 people are on a list to be let go if upcoming elections steer Obama. Companies willneed to prepare for the tax burdens that will be ahead.

Posted by: Corey B | October 29, 2008, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm

I doubt McCain has a serious chance. As an Obama supporter, I seriously hope he doesn’t. He would be a disaster for this country – the economy, the middle class, the war going on for another 100 years… we wanted a change, not the re-incarnation of George Bush. A vote for McCain is basically saying you are happy with the way things are going. Don’t for one minute believe McCain is any different. He is as clueless and as petulant as Bush on his best days. So enough with the pre-schoolers in the Oval Office, let’s get someone qualified and intelligent in there for a change. It worked pretty well with the last Pres, Clinton.

Posted by: lisa | October 29, 2008, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

geevil you have become the minority leader here. McSame or Ms Congeniality Palin have no understanding of the economy. For them the answer is simple like the lazzy WBush: cut taxes for the wealthiest and everybody will get rich: wrong capitalist theory. Pathetic.

Posted by: Panama Canal | October 29, 2008, 2:12 pm 2:12 pm

Len, you must be an oil tycoon. Most people I know have been having a hard time securing a credit line to make payroll, watching their retirement funds go down the toilet, spending their hard earned $$$ on gas, higher utilities, higher health ins. premiums, lower pay, layoffs, and watching their home values plummet because of the sinking housing market. Must be nice to be rich and knowing that Bush/McCain are looking out for you & the rest of the 1% of Americans.

Posted by: Daisy | October 29, 2008, 2:12 pm 2:12 pm

He is a collectivist, but hides it well:
Obama:
“In America, we have this strong bias toward individual action. You know, we idolize the John Wayne hero who comes in to correct things with both guns blazing. But individual actions, individual dreams, are not sufficient. We must unite in collective action, build collective institutions and organizations.”
To a certain extent, I agree. However, it is clear from his comments that he disparages individualism IN FAVOR of collectivism…the very use of the term collective is reflected in basic Marxist philosophy…
I AM NOT SAYING that Obama is a “Marxist..” the point is his philosophy, bolstered by “critical theory” and the like, is informed by the work of academics who DID rely on ultimately Marxist thought. Read his dang Autobiography…
So it filters down, through mainstream politics, and before you know it, we are discussing things in marxist terms without even knowing it…we just think it is the “truth” that “collective” action is more effective, and more important than individual action.
I oppose that viewpoint, in that it doesn’t recognize the importance of individualism.

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 2:14 pm 2:14 pm

Thus we have Palin who unlike Obama has a proven track record in getting things done and turning things around in a disturbing corrupt situation.
Fresh ideas with a track record. Obama- still researching most his votes are present and not one way or the other.

Posted by: Corey B | October 29, 2008, 2:14 pm 2:14 pm

Can a McCain supporter help me out with something.
Does everyone get the $2500 health credit ($5000 for families) or just those who do not have insurance thru their employer?

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:15 pm 2:15 pm

“Your taxes will be cut and you will be receiving more on your paychecks because of it.”
It’s not going to happen. Even if it did I wouldn’t sell my soul to vote for Obama who voted against medical treatment for babies surving bothced abortions..

Posted by: geevill | October 29, 2008, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm

“proven track record in getting things done”
Like what? Selling a plane then simply using another. Eventually pulling funding for a bridge after the Feds had? A pipeline that had been in negotiations far before her time? Bringing Walmart to Wasilla?
“and turning things around in a disturbing corrupt situation.”
Turning things around on corruption?
By accepting a per diem while staying at home?
By charging the state for her children;s travel even am,ending expense reports to say the children were invited and therefore on official state business?
By having her husband sit in on meetings about public business and copying him via email on such matters?
By using the power of her office to settle a family dispute?

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:19 pm 2:19 pm

Obama proposed a campaign finace agreement in 2007. He signed a pledge as did Mccain. Obama reneged on his promise. Obama does not have a shred of credibility. Anything he says can be considered a potential lie.

Posted by: geevill | October 29, 2008, 2:19 pm 2:19 pm

The Bush family and the House of Saud are worried about low gas prices, so Lil Bush will order the Fed to lower intrest rates to weaken the dollar so oil prices will go up. The Bush families friends sure do love those low intrest rates. Funny how that 850 billion bail out isn’t being spent the way Congress was told it would be. Where’s the over site ?
Ex Republican

Posted by: RGeier | October 29, 2008, 2:19 pm 2:19 pm

Obama would take Jefferson’s hard earned dry cleaning piece of the pie and give it to lazy Fred sitting in the junkyard.
NO geevill, use facts
that’s what Palin did in Alaska by giving every man, woman & child (non tax payers)a government check for 2,900 including everyone in her family

Posted by: watching | October 29, 2008, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm

His peanut butter and jelly sandwich comment shows me he does not the know the difference between socialism and sharing or charity. Sharing a sandwich is being friendly and kind. Taking my money by government force is quite another. If I give that sandwich to someone voluntarily that is charity, which is something he knew little about until he started running for national office. Based on his tax returns that were released he knows little about helping the poor unless he can do it by government mandate.
Relying on the government for redistributed wealth is one sure way to guarantee you life of poverty.
It all makes sense now.

Posted by: readmylips | October 29, 2008, 2:23 pm 2:23 pm

Ryan…Everyone gets it but the benefits will be taxed and offset IF you have an employer based plan…
Not sure what that means…I hate insurance crap. Not sure why the benefits would have to be taxable, frankly, wish he would drop that bit…would like to see more competition for insurance companies…I am kind of into those savings accounts or whatever…
BUT, Obama’s plan has flaws, too…too big, like Medicare, Medicare sucks. Will lead to more Canadian like system sometime down the road, blah, blah..
:)

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 2:25 pm 2:25 pm

“Ryan…Everyone gets it but the benefits will be taxed and offset IF you have an employer based plan.”
Damn now I am confused.
I thought you get that money if you choose to forgo your employer plan.

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:27 pm 2:27 pm

I’m voting for Barack because I want a whole bunch of free stuff, and I want other people to pay for it. I also want a house. I don’t like the one I’m living in, but I think I might like yours. Barack’s gonna redistribute some of your wealth over my way, so that’s why I’m voting for him! Obama/Biden 08!!!

Posted by: Barry's My Man | October 29, 2008, 2:28 pm 2:28 pm

Wade,
Do you think making insurance portable would have a effect similar to credit card companies settling in DE or insurance companies settling in CT because of their friendly regulations to the respective industries?

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:30 pm 2:30 pm

Congress will always take your money, that will never change. And what a joke, the wealthy don’t run around with there billions screaming I need to create jobs, what a bunch of B.S., they party there ### off. They hirer as few workers as they need and pay as little as they can. If people were paid a fare wage we wouldn’t need any government programs. The game is fixed, what we have isn’t a free market. The government has always sided with bussines against the people.

Posted by: RGeier | October 29, 2008, 2:34 pm 2:34 pm

Ryan,
Research Palin record more and stop following news media. Look at how far Alsaka has come since Palin took over. Look at her approval record and how many more pipelines are going in. Palin does not make decisions she turned the decisions over to the people of Alaska. Where decisions should be made. BY THE PEOPLE! NOT PELOSI-REID and OBAMA.

Posted by: Corey B | October 29, 2008, 2:40 pm 2:40 pm

There is a website called The Heritage Foundation that explains the tax plans very well and how even a flat tax could be even better. You should all read.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 29, 2008, 2:44 pm 2:44 pm

Senator Obama is a Democratic senator of Illinois, not North Carolina as it says in the first sentence

Posted by: Sam Man | October 29, 2008, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm

Hey, Ryan, the guy Fronstin has an interesting discussion about the plan…he says it may drive employers to drop health plans because insurance companies would likely design plans for individuals that are “ESSENTIALLY FREE” because the plans are about the same as the credit…and the benefit would not be taxable in those cases…
Scary? Maybe not. It might be better, because you can choose your provider, more competition, not stuck with your company’s plan?
Course, unhealthy people need more coverage right? So insurance companies cater to individuals, you get the $5000 credit, leaving $7000 a year to pay (for a family) based on the 12K number. Doable and less crazy sounding.
When Obama scoffs that the credit doesn’t pay for the whole thing, he shows that he thinks most people shouldn’t pay anything…that’s not right to me.
Also, employers would be able to pay employees more if they did not have to buy and manage insurance plans…of course, we would have to be vigilant about companies that dropped plans and did not pass the savings on to the employees
A legitimate concern…
…personally, I wish I could get the premiums employers pay for my family, take the tax credit, and buy my own insurance at whatever level of coverage I want.
If that happened, I believe I would have an extra $1000 or $2000 per year, or more, and have a good health plan. Then, I could afford braces for my kid
BUT, there are concerns with Obama’s as well, so I tend toward McCain’s
I think both plans have appeal in different ways…I like choice better.

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 2:47 pm 2:47 pm

RGeier: Very very true. Thanks!

Posted by: becky | October 29, 2008, 2:55 pm 2:55 pm

“Research Palin record more and stop following news media. Look at how far Alsaka has come since Palin took over.”
How far have they come? What is her record?
“Look at her approval record and how many more pipelines are going in.”
Her approval has dropped quite bit and I count 1 pipeline that may eventually be built
“Palin does not make decisions she turned the decisions over to the people of Alaska. Where decisions should be made.”
So Palin is not a Govenor? Alaska is ruled by direct democracy? What the hell does the above mean?

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:56 pm 2:56 pm

“hey, Ryan, the guy Fronstin has an interesting discussion about the plan.”
I’ll check that out and get back to you on this, Wade.

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

“A Veteran,
You’re wasting your time.”
I agree.
Right wing economics have been shown for the complete sham that they are.

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 2:59 pm 2:59 pm

Concerned in OH
I know but try. Every time you post some factual info they ignore it. They will have themselves to blame. According to heritage, under McCain tax plan there would be 2 million plus new jobs by 2018, With Obama, less than 1 million

Posted by: A Veteran | October 29, 2008, 2:59 pm 2:59 pm

Obama is a MASTER of psychological game of posing as the VICTIM of the McCAIN campaign!!!!
He is making it look like everyone is against him and is looking for sympathy. This posing as the victim gives him the license to ASSAULT others with his harsh words.
OBAMA is a great sympathy-getter and can fool anyone.

Posted by: OBAMBAM | October 29, 2008, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm

I hope everyone here is going to watch the 30 minute Obama special tonight, right before the end of the World Series.

Posted by: pt | October 29, 2008, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm

“I believe a PHd in economics has more on the ball than you. It isn’t right wing economics”
Umm the Heritage Foundation and the phd you cited are right wingers.
And the flat tax is a right wing idea.
It seeks to place a larger tax burden on the middle and working class while easing the tax burden on the wealthy.

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 3:07 pm 3:07 pm

Concerned in OH
re: ‘Progressives don’t care about economic wealth or increasing quality of life for people..’
your statement is so far from historical reality that it’s beyond laughable…..
to imply that Republicans are more concerned about ‘regular’ americans quality of life shows how far removed from political reality you are.

Posted by: Blue | October 29, 2008, 3:07 pm 3:07 pm

“According to heritage, under McCain tax plan there would be 2 million plus new jobs by 2018, With Obama, less than 1 million”
ROFLMAO.
Why not just cite Rush Limbaugh or FoxNews “analysis”?

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

Any Obama supporters want to compare the standard of living of the average U.S. citizen to that of more “enlightened” countries? What’s better, Euro-style high unemployment & low per capita GDP & ultra-high gas prices or what we have? Anybody want to compare our crappy stock market with theirs? Hint: they are much worse off than us.
We DO NOT want to go the socialist route just to punish the rich and the “large corporations” as Obama derides. Any Obama supporters work for one of these large corporations? Guess what, with more regulations and higher taxes, your job will be even more at risk.
Use some common sense and don’t let Obama fool you with his welfare state rhetoric. Of course it is easy to promise not to raise taxes on 95% of Americans when the top 5% pay most of the taxes. It is basic electoral math, not any concern for the common man. Obama is an elitist who has no concern for the common man. He only wants to squash your opportunity to gain power for himself and his liberal cronies.
Regards,
Karl

Posted by: Karl Marx | October 29, 2008, 3:11 pm 3:11 pm

Ryan C (That One)
Did you even read it or is that just the standard democratic reply. ANything that debunks Obama is automatically right wing propoganda, never factually based. How old are you.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 29, 2008, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2001, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2004).
Obama’s tax plan is to return to the progressive form of the Clinton administration which would target to the largest degree the 1 per cent at the top
with one third of the wealth in the country.
Small business owners making over 250 thousand in profit would see the smallest increase.
No more than they paid in the Clinton era which was without a doubt the most prosperous in recent history.
The benefits of this system would take the burden off the middle class which has only
16 per cent of the wealth in this country. The wage earners and salaried employees like Joe the plumber would get instant relief.
This will encourage them to spend more and stimulate the economy.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm

Ryan C (That One)
You don’t even know the whole Obama tax plan. You just here those catchy phrases like share the wealth and think you would somehow be wealthy with it.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 29, 2008, 3:13 pm 3:13 pm

seemstome
I guess you didn’t read it. History shows when you target the rich tax revenue and economy go backwards. When you have tax cuts, revenue increases and the wealthy actually pay more. The economy grows.

Posted by: A Veteran | October 29, 2008, 3:16 pm 3:16 pm

YOU PEOPLE NEED TO TURN OFF FOX NEWS AND GO ON LINE AND GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
Thank you seemstome, but I am sure half on this site will still argue with you.

Posted by: becky | October 29, 2008, 3:18 pm 3:18 pm

I would like to hear from someone in the top 20 percent of the population that controls 84 percent of the wealth.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 3:20 pm 3:20 pm

The real problem here is that once the obama plan goes into effect, the entire income tax burden will fall on the top 40%. The Bottom 60% will pay nothing. once we reach that point they bottom 60% will be able to vote themselves higher credits etc.
When you promise somthing to everyone it is nearly impossible to go back. Look at These other great programs like Social Security, Medicare etc. You can’t even mention reform without everyone screaming bloody murder. These programs will bacnkrupt us in the coming years and no one is willing to do anything about it. I guess when the time comes we can just tax the rich again and make it all better.

Posted by: readmylips | October 29, 2008, 3:22 pm 3:22 pm

Seemstone,
Whadda ya wanna know?
Craner

Posted by: Craner | October 29, 2008, 3:22 pm 3:22 pm

President Barack H. Obama…has a nice ring to it!!!

Posted by: VWard | October 29, 2008, 3:24 pm 3:24 pm

If you cut taxes to 0, tax revenues will go up to infinity.

Posted by: Blip | October 29, 2008, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm

readmylips; How much is enough? Does the ratio have to be greater? If 80 percent of the population have to live on 10 percent of the wealth, will that satisfy you? Will 5 percent do?
We are approaching the point of no return for the middle class. Don’t be a slave that puts on his own chains.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm

This most recent attack on Obama suggesting ties to Khalidi is absurd! Isnt this guilt by association nonsense smacks of old time McCarthysm.
There is an article in Politico today (Ben Smith) that dispells this nonsense & actually shows much closer ties between Khalidi and McCain the he is to Obama.
But the bigger issue is why is it ‘wrong’ to attend events with persons of opposing views? Is there anything more communist in nature then to attack people for listening to opposing views..I think not? Is this an era of McCarthyism that the McCain/Palin ticket are advocating?? Good grief, are there not enough exisitng divisions without trying to create more!! This is surely a time in our history where more diplomacy is required!

Posted by: Dee | October 29, 2008, 3:33 pm 3:33 pm

Mr. Marx,
You missed one important point that our leader 0bama will change. Since our capitalism has lost the grip resulted in losing jobs, the 3 letter word JOBS, to communist countries like China and Vietnam, it proves your system of socialism en route to a communist society is superior to the old-fashioned capitalism. Our leader 0bama will change, Change We Can Believe In, the capitalism into a socialist one. It will equalize the wealth, help to better compete with Communist China. Here, we, like China, will for the first time in our adult life have cheap labors and materials. Our lost jobs will come back to America.
0bama equals jobs! Yes We Can.

Posted by: d0 | October 29, 2008, 3:33 pm 3:33 pm

This is on a different subject, but…if A VP candidate were found to be a “pathological liar” – would that be something that the American people should be informed about? Maybe I’m too rational or not partisan or something — but I say ‘yes’ – people should know this.

Posted by: eric | October 29, 2008, 3:37 pm 3:37 pm

Obamam
Yes we all are voting for Obama becuase we feel Sorry for him. We feel sorry he has to endure the attacks and the death threats just to do what any white man running for president will have to do. Oh and I happen to support his policies…

Posted by: MM | October 29, 2008, 3:39 pm 3:39 pm

5 Words
McCain should of chose Romney.

Posted by: MM | October 29, 2008, 3:40 pm 3:40 pm

seemstome
I pose the same question. How much is enough. Is 40% carrying the entire burden to much. Maybe we could just tax the top 10% and the other 90% will consume all of the benefits. At what point will we ask everyone to share the burden. The “poor” and the “middle class” can now get government help with housing, food, childcare, college, healthcare, heating oil and I am sure I forgot a couple of others.
Wealth envy may make you feel better but it creates an atmosphere of complacency and entitlement.
Oh and I am part of the middle class who would get some “benefit” under the Obama plan. But, I am happy to do my part for the good of the country.

Posted by: readmylips | October 29, 2008, 3:41 pm 3:41 pm

TOP REASONS WHY McCAIN IS NOT FIT FOR PRESIDENT.
1. McCAIN AGREED WITH PRESIDENT BUSH ON 90% OF HIS FAILED POLICIES WHICH LED TO 8 YEARS OF TOTAL FISCAL AND FOREIGN POLICY FAILURE;
2. HE AGREED TO THE FAILED IRAQI WAR, AND WANTS TO CONTINUE THIS SENSELESS WAR INDEFINITELY;
3. HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN DIPLOMACY OR NEGOTIATION, AND WOULD RATHER ENGAGE IN WARFARE AND AGGRESSION TO SOLVE FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES;
4. HE EXERCISED POOR JUDGEMENT IN NOMINATING HIS VICE PRESIDENT KNOWING THAT SHE IS NOT QUALIFIED OR EXPERIENCED TO SERVE AS A VICE PRESIDENT;
5. HIS AGE AND POOR HEALTH MAKES IT VERY QUESTIONABLE IF HE CAN COMPLETE HIS FULL TERM IN OFFICE (IF ELECTED) WITHOUT A MAJOR HEALTH CRISIS;
6. WITH #5 IN MIND, IS HIS VICE PRESIDENT QUALIFIED TO BECOME PRESIDENT IN THE EVENT HE BECOMES ILL OR INCAPACITATED? WE ALL KNOW FULL WELL THAT SHE IS NOT CAPABLE;
7. McCAIN IS PREJUDICE AGAINST MINORITIES, INCLUDING AFRICAN AMERICANS, ARABS, MEXICANS AND HE WILL DIVIDE THE COUNTRY MORE THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN BEFORE;
8. HE FLAPS HIS FEATHERS ABOUT BEING A FORMER PRISONER OF WAR AND THAT HE HAS THE SCARS TO PROVE IT. IF WE SCRUTINIZE HOW ONE BECOMES A PRISONER OF WAR, ISN’T IT BECAUSE YOU EXERCISED POOR JUDGMENT AND MADE A MISTAKE, OR DID NOT FOLLOW SUPERIOR’S ORDERS/COMMANDS. THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HIM ENGAGING IN A SENSELESS WAR TO SLAUGHTER INNOCENT VIETNAMESE PEOPLE, AND TO CONSEQUENTLY CALL HIMSELF A “HERO”. THE PERSON I WOULD CALL A HERO IS MOHAMED ALI, WHO STOOD FOR HIS BELIEFS AND HELD HIS GROUNDS BY REFUSING TO ENGAGE IN A WAR TO KILL INNOCENT LIVES IN VIETNAM.
IF YOU HAVE VOTED FOR BUSH TO BE ELECTED FOR THE LAST TWO TERMS, AND YOU VOTE FOR A THIRD TERM OF BUSH’S POLICIES, THEN THE ONLY PERSON TO BLAME IS YOURSELF FOR THIS COUNTRY’S CONTINUED DECLINE AND FAILURE.
IT IS TIME TO WAKE UP AND VOTE FOR THE RIGHT CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT – BARRACK OBAMA. FORWARD TO ALL IF YOU CARE.

Posted by: mPatel | October 29, 2008, 3:42 pm 3:42 pm

So, Obama messing up Sanford and Sons and the Jeffersons earns not ONE, but TWO MENTIONS in Jake’s blog today.
Anyone who suggests Jake Tapper doesn’t know what’s news, doesn’t know Jake Tapper.
Alright. Now, enough of this nonsense. Let’s get back to hearing of things Joe Biden says that aren’t gaffes, but could be gaffes if you frame them as such!

Posted by: Lettuce | October 29, 2008, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm

that’s what Palin did in Alaska by giving every man, woman & child (non tax payers)a government check for 2,900 including everyone in her family
Palin didn’t take from one person ans give to another. The citizens reaped the benefits of capitalism. they got a dividend from oil profits.
Obama would take the money from Alaska and give it to his bums in Chicago, Philadelphia, Newark and Detroit.
Not very difficult to understand.

Posted by: geevill | October 29, 2008, 3:50 pm 3:50 pm

I just don’t seem to understand the Republican mindset. No one in the U.S. or any where else has done anything by themselves. The loans you get for homes, businesses, cars, the public schools your kids go to all come from somebody elses money. Republicans are so angry that Obama wants to “take there money” Bush as already done that with the war in Iraq. Wait till China sends us the Bill LOL.

Posted by: strike | October 29, 2008, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm

“The loans you get for homes, businesses, cars, the public schools your kids go to all come from somebody elses money”
Yeah, that would be the wealth obama wants to confiscate and spread around. No invested capital, no loans.
See you support McCain over socialist Obama and you didn’t even know it!

Posted by: geevill | October 29, 2008, 3:54 pm 3:54 pm

Greed leads to revolution then Revolution gives way to greed.
We are close to the end of a cycle in America which has concentrated wealth to the point where soon we will be on a par with Mexico.
Control of the 80 percent working class is left completely to the media. When the working class reaches 90 percent, this form of control will fail.
America will become a police state.
Then, even that will fail and so will America.
This doesn’t have to happen. We can postpone it indefinitely, but we must take back control of the country now.
John McCain works for the side of greed,
Barack Obama works for the 80 percent that are the real America.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm

As I read through all theses blogs I keep hearing Socialism…..Well it’s hear already who’s trying to kid who??? look at all the welfare programs. HEll if I were smart I’d close my business and file for welfare I would get a free house, foodies, free heat, Free medical…. and the more kids I have the more money I get! Get off the socialism kick it’s getting old and it’s here and until we get these folks off getting all these benifits for being here there is not a damn thing we can do about it. Oh and by the way most of these “benifts are called the FARM BILL!”

Posted by: kellie | October 29, 2008, 3:56 pm 3:56 pm

“The economy has not been growing,” Obama said, “and the average middle class family is $2,000 poorer now than when George Bush took office. When Bill Clinton was president your average wages and incomes went up $7,500, under George Bush it went down $2,000.”
—-
This is the same freek, when he was against Hillary Clinton, who said the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration are the same.

Posted by: d0 | October 29, 2008, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm

When Palin was offered the position of VP she suddenly pretended to be very patriotic to the United States. Todd Palin was a member of the radical Successionist group in Alaska that hated the United States so much that they advocated that Alaska secede from the US. Sarah Palin was a strong supporter of that group. Is that kind of person you want for the VP position of our country?

Posted by: LANNY EDWARDS | October 29, 2008, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm

Obama is not a socialist. He’s going to enact a tax code that is for the middle class. If that’s socialism, then I welcome socialism in this country.
It seems as though the right wants to label anything that is not trickle down Reaganomics as socialism. This is misleading.
And, if in fact he is a socialist and is elected President, then Americans will have elected a socialist (which is not the case) as President.
Get over it. You’ll see. Everyone on this board is in the middle class. I just hope each of you are not too blind to admit it when you’re stupid theory is wrong.

Posted by: SgtPepper | October 29, 2008, 4:06 pm 4:06 pm

“Greed leads to revolution then Revolution gives way to greed.”
Seemstone,
You sound like Che Guevara!
This is America. Wealth is an output of the sum total of one’s decisions (should I save or consume? should I study or party? should I take a risk or play it safe?). This country is great because it rewards those who make good decisions and the total wealth of this country allows just about everybody to be taken care of. Would you rather be in poverty in America or be in China’s middle class? How about Cuba, Russia, Vietnam, North Korea, or Venezuela?
Is the lower 80% of wage earners’ federal tax rate too high? The TOP average tax rate of this cohort is only 8%. Cutting it further isn’t going to make much of a difference. Taxing wealth to spread it around creates perverse incentives.
Craner

Posted by: Craner | October 29, 2008, 4:06 pm 4:06 pm

Wade,
I think we can both agree that neither plan is likely to be enacted as is and our taste or distaste of a given plan is more tied to the general direction of the plan and our political leanings rather than particularly distasteful components of the plan.

Posted by: Ryan C (That One) | October 29, 2008, 4:11 pm 4:11 pm

No seemstome, I’m not for McCain because he would allow a fortune 500 company CEO’s to fire 20’000 people and then get millions of dollars for all there “good works”

Posted by: strike | October 29, 2008, 4:13 pm 4:13 pm

Ryan:
Actually, I agree with you…I don’t think that insurance companies should be able to have insurance laws of their “home” state apply…McCain is wrong on that in my opinion…
If he were elected, I would argue to my congress people against voting for such a plan. Given that the house and senate with be D, it is unlikely that such a provision would make it through.
However, it is a bad idea of McCain’s. There, I said it!
There is no reason that the plan could not include the voucher idea, and leave state sovereignty over insurance companies doing business in the state.
McCain loses on that, but Obama’s humongous ideas are too headed for one-payer, Canadian style, wait too long health care.
I think the credit card analogy is actually good. I think Delaware (Biden’s state) and SD should be *shunned* Dwight style for allowing usury (I was going to say bombed, but…) On the other hand, a lot of people couldn’t get credit if the interest rates were capped at 12%. On the OTHER hand :-), maybe that would be good because banks wouldn’t go crazy chasing after bad loans…hmmm.

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm

If the wealthy had their way we would be working like the serfs in China do at one tenth the wages with no health benefits.
We would have the toxic air, and undrinkable water that China’s industrial pollution has produced.
When the workforce becomes “flexible” enough, maybe the Chinese form of feudalism will be right for America.
Another eight years of republican rule should do it.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 4:18 pm 4:18 pm

Ryan:
Just saw your comment. I agree…our tendency to vote for one over the other has more to do with a broad shift than the provisions of the proposed plans…

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 4:18 pm 4:18 pm

MM:
Nothing against Palin, but maybe you are right about Romney…he would have been real good on this $ stuff…

Posted by: Wade | October 29, 2008, 4:20 pm 4:20 pm

Craner look around. You are living in the past. That America is fading fast.
Populations have shifted from the south to the north. Borders have opened like never before. Fundamental change will happen whether you like it or not.
McCain is not the man for America today.
Neither is your twentieth century philosophy.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 4:26 pm 4:26 pm

He’s going to enact a tax code that is for the middle class. If that’s socialism, then I welcome socialism in this country.
Posted by: SgtPepper | Oct 29, 2008 4:06:09 PM

Hallelujah! May Karl Be With You.

Posted by: d0 | October 29, 2008, 4:32 pm 4:32 pm

Seemstone,
Thanks for the reply.
I’m afraid that if a plurality of the people think like you on November 4th that you will be proven correct.
I hope you are wrong & I hope you don’t live in Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Missouri, Nevada, or North Carolina!
Craner

Posted by: Craner | October 29, 2008, 4:33 pm 4:33 pm

Concentration of wealth will destroy America. When the disparity becomes too great the government will have no choice but to institute a police state.
At that time the control that the media can exert alone will not be enough.
Fundamental change will occur whether you like it or not.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 4:39 pm 4:39 pm

THREE GROUPS: Forecasts of voting lag, so far
Record turnout was seen for new voters, young, Hispanics
By MOLLY BALL
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Elections
Politics
People line up to vote Tuesday at a trailer on the grounds of the Las Vegas Athletic Club at Sahara Avenue and Decatur Boulevard.
Photo by John Locher.
Graphic by Mike Johnson.
Analysts have predicted that new voters, young voters and Hispanic voters will turn out in record numbers in this election. But as Nevadans continue to flock to the polls, turnout among those three groups is lagging, at least in the early going.

Posted by: dave | October 29, 2008, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm

You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear. Does anyone have a mind of their own? One post was exactly what Obama has been saying for months. Think much? I will not vote for Obama, not because of the economic issues or his stand of Iraq or that he is going to sink this nation into a depression,I will not vote for him because of all his associations to hateful, radical, racist people. You would not associate with these types if your views were not the same. I believe that his agenda, planned for years with Ayers and others is to bring this country down, to destroy it.

Posted by: Linda/Michigan | October 29, 2008, 5:01 pm 5:01 pm

Obama WILL win…people just need to start getting used to that idea.

Posted by: Lola | October 29, 2008, 5:03 pm 5:03 pm

I have been hearing a lot of talk about how McCain’s economic plan will benefit the “Joe the Plumbers” of this country, yet I have not heard anything about how McCain’s administration will help the “Yolanda the Teachers.” Unlike the “Joe the Plumbers” in his campaign ad, after four years of teaching, I only make $35,000 per year, and, unfortunately, I cannot afford healthcare for my children (or anything else because I DO NOT qualify for any assistance with food, daycare or anything). Additionally, I am deeply offended by their (the “I’m Joe the Plumbers”) cavalier attitudes which suggests that the middle-class will “steal” something we didn’t earn under Obama’s plan. So, do you mean to tell me that teachers, police officers, fire fighters, EMS workers and other public servants don’t at least deserve tax relief as we shoulder the same responsibility as the “Joe the Plumbers” who make far more than we do? When I look at McCain’s plan against Obama’s, I know my family will benefit better if Obama is elected president. That’s the truth! No fog, no mirrors! By the way, I am a non-affiliated voter (formerly a registered Republican for many years) and I approve THIS message!

Posted by: Yolanda Whitted | October 29, 2008, 5:03 pm 5:03 pm

GOBAMA! TELL IT LIKE IT IS!
McCain wants to spread fear, because he has no plan
Palin can only spread fear, she know nothing else
Real Americans aren’t afraid of anything! Certainly, we won’t be fooled by pathetic attempts to label someone.
Obama offers hope. He has a plan for our economy. He has a new direction for our country based on the middle class instead of corporations.
Obama will help our nation regain the international credibility we’ve lost under Republican “leadership”.
Obama wants ALL Americans to be able to seek health care when needed.
Obama is a true leader. He is an inspirational leader for all Americans.
Obama understands that the less fortunate in our nation have been dumped on by the Republican party.
He knows this country was built “by the people, for the people”. And that’s ALL people, not just the wealthy ones.
It’s time we take our country back. It begins on Tuesday!

Posted by: Rachel | October 29, 2008, 5:10 pm 5:10 pm

Yolanda,
Why do you do what you do if you aren’t satisfied with your earnings and benefits? Why do you feel it is the government’s responsibility to pay your bills? Did you not know that was the pay scale for teachers in the district in which you chose to work? If you are a good teacher (I assume you are), shouldn’t you be able to get a raise? Wouldn’t Senator McCain’s tax credit help you buy insurance for your kids?
Regards,
Karl

Posted by: Karl Marx | October 29, 2008, 5:12 pm 5:12 pm

Notice how Obama never denies the socialist and communist claims he brings up – he just gives silly examples about them.
Classic trick of a politician.
You think by his silly examples that he is against socialism and communism, but he never comes out and says he is.

Posted by: Wilma H. | October 29, 2008, 5:19 pm 5:19 pm

If Obama and the Democrats are elected they only have two years to do their “damage” and in the mid-term elections there will be a revolution against the Obamunists and start by throwing out the Democrat majority in Congress.
Obama has flown so, so high…but what goes up will come down. And the US will suffer.

Posted by: Richard J. | October 29, 2008, 5:26 pm 5:26 pm

Wouldn’t Senator McCain’s tax credit help you buy insurance for your kids?
———————–
Have you ever really priced an independent family policy? (My 54 year co-worker pays $387 per month and has HUGE deductibles and limited coverage. That’s just for her, not her family.)
A $5000 credit will increase the cost of health care for almost every American. Even McCain said the average policy cost was $5800 per year. And that figure is much lower than many third party figures suggest.
Have you ever tried to get an individual policy with a pre-existing condition? You simply can’t get it, at any price. You are left uninsured.
Do you understand the power of collective purchasing over an independent puchase? You lose all collective bargaining power as an individual. You are at the mercy of the insurance companies.
McCain’s health care plan benefits insurance companies, not Americans. It will leave millions of Americans uninsured.
McCain’s plan will end up costing us more because people will not seek preventative health care if they can’t afford it.
As with most policies McCain has suggested, it’s a horrible plan. Thus, it will never get through Congress. We’ll end up right where we started with a broken health care system.

Posted by: Milton Freedman | October 29, 2008, 5:30 pm 5:30 pm

Rachel,
With all due respect, I think you are drinking too much Obama Kool-Aid.
McCain has lots of plans. They are just different from Obama’s. Lots & lots of plans. McCain is spreading fear about Obama. Obama is spreading fear about McCain. Presidential politics. Happens every four years.
Anybody that has met Sarah Palin believes she is smart & gracious. Even the liberal types. The only ones that bash her are those that don’t actually listen. Republicans that call Joe Biden an idiot are just as guilty. Biden’s smart, but a bit loose-lipped. We all have our faults.
Not sure what you mean about the Real Americans not being afraid of anything. I’m afraid a terrorist might hurt my family. I’m afraid of losing my freedom. I’m afraid of clowns.
Obama offers false hope. He is trying to make the “middle class” dependent on the government. Hope = opportunity. If you want opportunity, vote McCain. Replace the phrase “middle class” with “proletariat” in any of Obama’s speeches and you’ll truly believe he’s a Marxist. That didn’t work out real well for the Soviet Union.
Even France think Obama is a weakling in the foreign policy arena, calling him “arrogant” for wanting to negotiate with rogue regimes. Obama’s foreign policy is most similar to Jimmy Carter’s. I don’t think we’ll be able to dig up Reagan to bail us out four years from now.
All Americans are able to SEEK health care now. Obama’s plan only makes the seeking that more difficult.
Obama is a good speaker. But the content is troubling & not at all inspirational. If you want inspiration and good speaking, I have the names of a few churches.
Can’t remember a Republican “dumping” on a less fortunate person unless it is a criminal. Less fortunate persons are more than welcome to strive to become more fortunate persons.
Nothing wrong with wealth & achievement. Republicans don’t want anybody to not have the opportunity to be wealthy.
I couldn’t agree more with your last statement!!
Regards,
Karl

Posted by: Karl Marx | October 29, 2008, 5:32 pm 5:32 pm

When Plain raises taxes on oil companies, takes the money, and gives it to the working class Alaskans (who haven’t earned it, they just get a check for doing nothing) – what do YOU call that?
Seems YOU would call that Socialism. If not, you’re as much a hypocrite as she is.

Posted by: GOP HYPOCRISY | October 29, 2008, 5:33 pm 5:33 pm

I know my family will benefit better if Obama is elected president. That’s the truth! No fog, no mirrors!
Posted by: Yolanda Whitted | Oct 29, 2008 5:03:28 PM
—-
0bama asks you to ask what you can do for your country, ask not what your country has to do for you. Or, was he planning on writing into the Constitution that requires the government pay all your bills?
Don’t you think you should have Karl Marx’s spirit to contribute to the government for the benefit of the common good?
Why do you keeps thinking me, me, and me, what 0bama will do for ME?

Posted by: factcheck | October 29, 2008, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm

GOP HYPOCRISY,
Nothing wrong with collecting a royalty on the use of public property. The U.S. government and every other government in the world collects royalties from companies that utilize publicly-owned natural resources. That is why offshore drilling makes the most sense.
Gov. Palin simply decided that the best use of those royalties was to give it to the people rather than waste it on a political pet projects.
Socialism is taking money out of one person’s pocket and giving it to another to achieve more equal outcomes for all regardless of input.
Regards,
Karl

Posted by: Karl Marx | October 29, 2008, 5:41 pm 5:41 pm

I’m afraid of losing my freedom. I’m afraid of clowns.
——
And yet you support the Republican party? How ironic.
So when the Republican party takes away your civil liberties you don’t mind. Because it’s in the name of “freedom”. Do you not see the rediculous nature of your argument?
And when the Republican President and Vice President ignore the Constitution and just write their own laws, you don’t mind.
When your party’s leaders operate unethically, and are caught doing it, you don’t mind.
When they ignore subpoena’s, that’s ok, it’s just the law right?
When you have a VP candidate who obviously had no interest in national or international politics until a few weeks ago, that’s ok. Talk about a clown.
Personally, I would be more afraid of what your own party has done over the threat over any terrorist attack.

Posted by: Rachel | October 29, 2008, 5:50 pm 5:50 pm

Tax Cuts for Middle Class Families
Obama’s Plan
• A $1,000 Making Work Pay Tax Credit for 95% of Workers. Obama will provide a refundable tax cut of $500 for workers or
$1,000 for working couples.
• Generous Additional Tax Cuts for Middle Class Families. Obama will provide a package of tax cuts to help families afford health care, college and save for retirement.
• Cutting Taxes To Below Where They Were Under President Reagan. Under Obama’s plan total federal taxes for typical families would be 19 percent lower than they were under President Reagan.
McCain’s Plan
• Only Middle Class Tax Cut Leaves Out 101 Million Households. McCain’s only direct tax cut for the middle class is an increase in the dependent exemption, which leaves out 101 million households with absolutely no benefit. Overall, the National Review concluded that the McCain plan offers “very little in the way of direct benefits” to the middle class.
• About $125 in Middle Class Tax Relief for Families Who Benefit. For a family with two children, McCain’s proposal to
increase the dependent exemption would offer only about $125 in relief during the first year of his plan.

Posted by: ziadora | October 29, 2008, 5:51 pm 5:51 pm

Debating socialism now is like debating deck chairs on the Titanic. Trickle down economics has already worked! America’s wealth has been trickling (correction – “gushing”) to Asian and middle-eastern countries in the form of jobs, manufacturing, dividend re-investment, oil and infrastructure development. All this inspite of ZERO taxes paid by 2/3 of the Fortune 500 companies using loopholes to erase the “high tax rate” that McCain keeps talking about. These foreign countries then use this wealth to loan America money to buy more stuff from them.
We already have a universal healthcare system in the US! It relies on the uninsured being able to tap Emergency room care at nearly ten times the cost of preventive care and passing on those costs to tax payers driving up state budget deficits. McCain’s $5000 tax credit would just shift the burden to the Federal government while allowing providers to move out of states that currently require coverages.
America’s future supply of oil is guaranteed!…by 130,000 troops sitting in the gulf permanently and running an off-budget tax funded cost of $150B annually. Its just another social give-away to the oil companies in the form of lives and treasure. McCain suggests new tax cuts and de-regulation to motivate companies to build 45 nuclear power plants. Not in my backyard!
Everything about these examples is due to an antiquated borrow, spend and de-regulate philosophy that McCain whole heartedly shares with Bush. His tax cuts/credits will add an additional trillion dollars of debt compared to Obama’s investments (acording to tax policy center).
Ofcourse, in every other way McCain and Bush are quite different.

Posted by: Young Atheart | October 29, 2008, 5:58 pm 5:58 pm

“Are we getting closer to and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?”
“Here’s what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.” “The very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really don’t pay nearly as much as you think they do.”
The question came from a young audience participant on Hardball in 2000. The response came from John McCain.
The conclusion: McCain calling Obama a “socialist” is sheer demagoguery in 2008.

Posted by: Brooklyn Democrat | October 29, 2008, 5:58 pm 5:58 pm

Dear Rachel,
Thanks for the reply.
I can understand your anger at the current administration. I’m angry at them myself & I agree with many of your points. I’m not crazy about the current leadership of the Republican Party and I think they need to go.
I think most of the entire Congress needs to go to.
We need leaders that have our best interests at heart. You & I may disagree on the current slate of candidates, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that the current leaders in Washington aren’t doing their jobs.
Regards,
Karl

Posted by: Karl Marx | October 29, 2008, 6:01 pm 6:01 pm

Socialism is taking money out of one person’s pocket and giving it to another to achieve more equal outcomes for all regardless of input.
—————————
You can call it “royalties” if you want. She called it RAISING TAXES and so does everyone else. And that’s exactly what you guys are now calling “socialism”.
She took TAX DOLLARS and handed it out to those who did not work for it. Plain and simple. They did not earn it, they did not work for it, they did not invest for it…they just got a hand out from the government.
She achieved a more equal outcome for all regardless of their input.
Spin it anyway you want. I go back to my original statement. She’s a hypocrite.
It’s the actions that matter. Obama, in an entire explaination of his tax plan, happens to say “spread the wealth”. And you parrots jump on the verbage. Anyone with critical thinking skills can see his tax plan suugests rates that are less than under Ronald Reagan. Is HE a “socialist” now?
But Palin AND McCain have endorsed similar policy. The above example is PROOF of it.
McCain stated:
When you reach a certain level of comfort, there is nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.”
YOU would now call that “socialist” or “Marxist” if Obama said it.
It’s just a progressive tax system – which we’ve had for quite some time now.

Posted by: GOP HYPOCRISY | October 29, 2008, 6:04 pm 6:04 pm

The profoundly evil campaign directed by McCain shows how power can corrupt a man over 26 years. These are dangerous times and a dictator could emerge who would end personal freedom and security in this country. McCain is “That One”.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 6:26 pm 6:26 pm

If you don’t think power corrupts take a good look at John McCain. He is physically addicted to it. Most men his age would be satisfied with a 26 year career in the senate. But no, not “that one”.
He wants power so badly that getting it justifies any and all means to that end.
McCain dodders around telling whatever lies they give him to mouth, no matter how foul. He spouts fear, incites ethnic and racial hatred at every opportunity. No matter that people are worried and fearful enough that they will be unable to pay their bills and feed their family.
McCain offers no real help to these people.
His concern is for the people who have corrupted him, Oil company executives, Banking and Insurance company C.E.O.s and now Military Arms Manufacturers.
“power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Don’t let “That One” get absolute power.

Posted by: seemstome | October 29, 2008, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm

(In response, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds later said, “No one cares what Barack Obama does with his toys, but Americans do care that he wants to raise taxes, add a trillion dollars in new spending and redistribute your hard-earned paycheck as he sees fit.”)
Again, all the McCain camp can do is lie lie lie. Want to know how much you’re going to save under Obama’s tax plan?
Meanwhile, McCain will tax your employer health benefits you receive as if those benefits were CASH. So, you’ll have to pay your tax bracket for your health benefits as if you were receiving money, yet you aren’t, you get your benefits from your employer, but you are not given money for them. So McCain will tax you. You’ll pay MORE taxes under McCain. McCain will kill the middle class.
Do yourselves a favor, McCain supporters, and read up on this. You’d be shooting yourself in the foot to vote for McCain. That is if you really care about taxes.

Posted by: United States goes BLUE! | October 29, 2008, 6:32 pm 6:32 pm

Hey ! I just hope everyone that believes they have a connection to the highest power that controls ALL willpray for our nation to make the right choice . That HIS will be done, and things to turn around for tis nation.
Healtcare is a mainstay for me in this election because people are dieing ALL over THIS nation because they cant get help , unless they quit their jobs and get welfare . Even if tey can get a dr to see them without insurance, they likely cant afford the medicine . That is not the America that anyone ever wanted to live in , is It ?

Posted by: lblackmon902@sc.rr.com | October 29, 2008, 6:36 pm 6:36 pm

Hey ! I just hope everyone that believes they have a connection to the highest power that controls ALL willpray for our nation to make the right choice . That HIS will be done, and things to turn around for tis nation.
Healtcare is a mainstay for me in this election because people are dieing ALL over THIS nation because they cant get help , unless they quit their jobs and get welfare . Even if tey can get a dr to see them without insurance, they likely cant afford the medicine . That is not the America that anyone ever wanted to live in , is It ?

Posted by: lblackmon902@sc.rr.com | October 29, 2008, 6:38 pm 6:38 pm

• No Tax Increases for Families Making Under $250,000. Barack Obama has made firm commitment not to raise any taxes for families making under $250,000 (and individuals making under
$200,000).
Posted by: ziadora | Oct 29, 2008 5:51:56 PM
—-
Excuse me, but isn’t this a marriage tax penalty under 0bama? Two singles making a total of $400K won’t see tax increase, but two people married will see tax increase starting at $250K. This is a marriage penalty of $150K (400K-250K) in tax increase.
0bama = marriage tax penalty.

Posted by: factcheck | October 29, 2008, 6:46 pm 6:46 pm

Sorry to say, but you people screaming “socialism” about a more equitable rate of taxation have been terribly mislead by politicians who aim to distract you with lies and cultural wedge issues in the hopes that you never realize how badly you’re all — we’re all — being had by Corporate America, lobbyists, and politicians who serve as lobbyist tools in Washington.
Questions to ask yourself: How much do corporations actually pay in federal income taxes? How much of the stock market value does the top 20% of Americans own? (Answer: 90%.) What happens to YOUR state, local, and property taxes when your leaders mangle the federal budget? (Also remember, states have a flat tax, which means that those who earn less actually pay a higher percentage of their income towards state taxes — meaning when you add state and federal taxes together, those who earn less actually pay around the same effective rate of their incomes for taxes as those who earn more.) How does the richest 5% of Americans paying 3% more in federal income taxes = socialism? Under the Bush admin’s tax cuts, how was the economy grown? Did corporations send fewer jobs overseas? Did unemployment and wages go up or down? How does McCain’s plan to cut capital gains taxes help the middle class? (Do you know what capital gains taxes ARE?!) Do you know that the last time the wealthiest 1% of Americans owned 40% of the nation’s wealth–as they now do–was in 1929, the eve of the Great Depression?
Come on, people. Get with the program and STOP voting against YOUR interests.

Posted by: Jade | October 29, 2008, 6:58 pm 6:58 pm

McCain/Palin
= cultural tax
= middle class tax
= tax on benefits (1st time in U.S.)
= 8 house owner tax relief
= Anheuser Bush tax relief
= New wardrobe for Palin
= AIP for Alaska (divided nation)
It’s almost 8, don’t be late!
Obama/Biden
= equal rights for all Americans
= middle class tax relief
= opt-in healthcare
= relief for home-owning families
= small business tax relief
= bottom up economic stimulation
= United States of America
Obama/Biden 08!

Posted by: Common Sense | October 29, 2008, 7:41 pm 7:41 pm

Do you people realize that the generous (yeah right!) $5000 that McCain is offering for health insurance is for a family … only $2500 for individuals – they seem to “forget” to clarify that. My current policy is $450/month – translation, McCain’s plan doesn’t help me much. I have talked to older American’s getting soaked for $800/month crappy policies … but McCain doesn’t care because he has HIS cushy GOVERNMENT plan. I can’t wait until we go PURPLE under Obama!!! (his 2004 speech – purple US, not red or blue – it’s about unity folks!).
Obama/Biden ’08/12!!!!

Posted by: Anna B | October 29, 2008, 7:52 pm 7:52 pm

I like McCain, I really do, but I have to ask: Is spreading the wealth really socialism? Not really. Is providing free health care to the citizens of a country that work, sweat, bleed, and die for it, really communist? I thought that was covered in love thy neighbor.
These issues are irrelevant. Communism will never work and never happen. Unbridled capitalism doesn’t work–and should never happen again.
Socialism–I’m not for it, but I don’t see why anyone should fear it. I’ve been to Canada, they seem to be doing just fine.

Posted by: Not Undecided | October 29, 2008, 10:50 pm 10:50 pm

McCain calling Senator Obama a socialist is a cheap, desperate ploy (and I’m shocked so many people seem to have fallen for it) and McCain and Palin spreading lies about Obama’s tax plan is simply disgraceful. Senator Obama didn’t change his tax policy. It’s always been if your family’s income is below $250,000 your taxes will not go up. If your family’s income is below $200,000, your taxes will actually go down. For those families between $200,000 and $250,000, your taxes will stay the same. And for individuals making less than $200,000, you won’t pay more in taxes and those making $150,000 will pay less. Senator Obama and Joe Biden were merely emphasizing different aspects of his tax plan. They should have stayed on message, but at least they’re telling the American people the truth.

Posted by: Jackie B. | November 1, 2008, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm

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