Joe the Plumber Eligible for Obama Tax Cut?

too late for damage control.
Obama in his own words will “punish success” and “spread the wealth”.

Obama is wrong. he says no one likes to pay taxes… when the fact is, no one likes taxes, period. Barack Obama needs to quit acting as if Americans are okay with taxes, as long as it’s our neighbors paying it.

So Joe the Plumber will actually do better under Obama’s plan?
That’s too funny!

Republican = selfish

So according to Joe and Mccain Its ok to Tax the Hell out of the Middleclass say like people who make 20-200 Thousand a Year and Give it to the Rich so they can pocket Their Net?

Let’s just take one example….The average baseball salary in 2005 was $2.5 million dollars. The average salary in 2008 is over $3 million. The average ticket price in 2006 was $22 a ticket. Today, it is $25.40. Add in $10 for parking and it costs me well over $100 to take my kids to a ballgame. And forget about the World Series where tickets quadruple in costs.
This is merely an illustration of what is going on today in the world. Millionaires and billionaires are making their money on the backs of the middle class chumps like us. Then they proclaim how hard they worked to get where they got. While I think that many of these folks owe as much to good fortune as hard work I have no problem with them making as much as they can.
But don’t cry to me about taxes. Pay your fair share. Right now, billionaires and millionaires are not…

This guy is a Republican plant. He’s a registered Republican; his dad is a big time GOP donor. To top it off, he’s in the Keating circle!
Come on. This is just ridiculous.

TJ must have had problems in math class. A 39% tax on $275,000.00 is
$107,250.00, not $1,000.00. Do you do tax returns for a living? I do, and everyone will have “sticker shock” if Obama wins. I agree with Joe the Plumber.

Work America. Work! I need your tax dollars to support me.

Joe the plumber is a joke that is backfiring on McCain.
If Joe the plumber can afford to buy a business that makes 250k or more, he can afford to pay higher taxes.
To think that he should be able to pay the same amount of taxes as the guy who only makes 25k a year… he is crazy.
Politico says that he is not even a registered voter.
Joe the plumber, you need to get your head out of the pipes and get real…
Just like McCain said… your rich, congradulations !! Now pay up

This is a HUGE defeat for the Obama camp. They are spiraling out of control with ACORN, Ayers, the birth certificate video which has a million hits on U tube in just 3 days. People are beginning to wake up and see that Obama is not right for the country. I regret voting for him during the primary and won’t make the same mistake again.
Obama’s statement to the plumber was just plain STUPID and shows that he has ZERO experience to deal with anything. He lost my brother’s vote because if it.

Please stop criticizing my old buddy Joe Wurzelburger just because he can’t get his story straight.

“Obama explains that while a flat tax sounds fair, it is actually regressive and hurts the middle income and poor people more than a progressive tax system penalizes the rich.”
Unfortunately Obama’s explanation of a flat tax was flat out wrong. Forty percent? Give me a break. There are many, many studies that conclude a flat tax of around 15% for all wages above roughly $40,000 a year would be plenty to run our bloated federal government. Obviously less would be needed if we slashed services back to what is constitutionally required.
A flat tax would not punish the lower and middle classes, but it would remove power from lawmakers so it will never happen. A progressive tax does indeed punish success as you’ve pointed out, not necessarily “the rich”. But keep up the class warfare commentary. It’s straight out of the Saul Alinsky playbook.

Plumber Joe is a very smart man. Obama wants to “spread the wealth around” but particularly so to those who don’t pay any taxes at all. In addition, he has a wealth (pun intended) of new programs he wants to enact. Simply soaking the rich won’t pay for it all, particularly in a down economy. He’ll have to increase taxes on every taxpayer in order to “help those behind them” as he’s vowed to do. Welfare will disappear to be replaced by “refundable tax credits”, stimulus packages, and increased government programs.
Any middle class taxpayer who is voting for Obama thinking they’re going to pay less taxes is being played for a fool. Obama’s already told you in plain English that he’s going back to the tax rates under Bill Clinton – where we all paid more.

Rest assured, the level will not be 250- if you give the liberals total control of the government, anyone who has a successful job will be paying more. HOld on to your wallets, kids.

I noticed GMA showed a clip this morning but stopped short of Obama saying ….spread the wealth around…..or however he put it.

Joe the plumber is obviously a McCain supporter. He said his in interview this morning that he’s made up his mind for “some time”. He also said “this is my 15 minutes”. That Andy Warhol. I don’t know too many plumbers that can quote Andy Warhol or even know who he is. Also, McCain seemed to know an awful lot about a guy who the world only knows from a brief encounter with Obama on a rope line a few days ago. I’m starting to think the RNC got to this guy beforehand. I think they tried to put a “face” on their argument. Maybe the jounralists should investigate this guy.

I am sick of corporate fat-cats and big oil CEOs whining about paying more taxes. These robber-barons make millions. Why shouldn’t they make more than the average American? Why should the guy making $50,000 pay the same as these rip-off artists? “Spread the wealth around” merely means a more fair tax policy. Get real, geevil and the other desperate McCan’t/Failin supporters.

I just read on another site that JOE THE PLUMBER ISN’T EVEN REGISTERED TO VOTE.
Can someone confirm this?

There’s no denying that Obama is quoted as saying to Joe the plumber,
“My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”
Obama is no longer hiding his ideology of redistribution of wealth at the hands of the government. This quote is frighteningly similar to,
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” – Karl Marx, 1875

and lets be clear
the top 5 % income has soaked this country for 40 years
as we watched the middle class ration tax burden increase at twice the rate over those last 40 years…
of a predominantly republican “finger pointing accusing everyone else of being socialist” run congress during that time…
time to stop this spin about “redistribution of wealth”
redistribution of responsibility for the opportunities that this country affords those who received those top 5 % of riches…was what the last 40 years of tax exemptions (you know what Buffett termed “green stamps for the rich” …increasing for the wealthy
is what is “redistribtuion” just in the opposite direction for 40 years…
Obama is only slightly correcting that shift.
and people like Joe Plumber don’t get that…
again
stupid people brought us Bush
Stupid people are many of those arguing for a continuation.

Can’t wait for obama to win. all you idiots who voted for him will be standing there with your hands out waiting for your hand out. can’t wait! he will laugh at you and say sorry…no money for you! he has promised money to EVERYONE. he is running for panderer in chief…liar liar pants on fire. i can’t wait to see your faces when he turns our country into a socialist experiment…he and michelle can’t wait to STICK IT TO YOU!!!! i can’t wait.
idiots.

Joe the plumber is a relative of Charles Keating. Remember John Mccain and the Keating 5 and the Savings and Loan scandal, where the biggest heist in AMerican history was perpertrated on the American people.

Yes, we have spread the wealth indeed. The republicans platform has always been unfair taxes. Reward the rich at the expense of the middle class. Give billions of tax cuts to the wealthy and then bail them out with 700 billion dollars..
NO MIDDLE CLASS. NO AMERICA..

The comment about “spreading the wealth around” was in reference to TAX POLICY, people! You have to understand it in context. Obama is talking about a tax policy that is more fair. To make the leap of logic that his comment means socialism is ludicrous!

A simple flat tax — same percentage for all – with NO deductions would simplify things and make it fair to all. the problem? First & foremost, the very wealthy would wind up paying far more if they couldn’t use all their tax write-offs. but what would it do to the U.S. economy overall — would the loss of all those IRS jobs create an problem for workers or would it be a boon to the budget?

If Joe the Plumber thinks he can’t afford to buy the business under Obama’s tax plan then he really needs to consult a good accountant. Obama’s plan lowers taxes on the first $250,000 Joe makes. On the money over $250,000, Joe would pay 39% under Obama, instead of the 36% he now pays. That’s 3% more taxes, not exactly a break-the-bank if you have already made $250,000 at a low rate. Plus, Obama will give him a tax credit for every job he creates, and tax credits for every employee that he provides health insurance for. Under Obama’s plan, Joe’s business will pay LESS TAX than it does now.
McCain’s plan will tax the first $250,000 at a higher rate, then drop the taxes on anything over $250,000 by an unspecified amount. McCain’s plan does not give him a tax credit for every job he creates. If he provides health care for his employees he will now have to deduct yet another tax from their paychecks, adding administrative burden to his company. Not to mention that Joe will have to pay this tax himself on his personal income, which amounts to $4,200 a year he pays in taxes (35% of the $12,000 a typical policy costs). And if his company does not provide health care, he and his employees will pay out of pocket for their health care (average cost $12,000 per year), get a $5,000 tax credit under McCain, but be out of pocket at least $7,000 per year for their policy.
My impression is that Joe really should stick to plumbing and leave tax policy to Obama.
Furthermore, Joe the plumber says that Obama has a “very socialist view of taxes” This statement shows America how very uninformed Joe Wurzelbacher is. I would love to hear Joe define socialism and describe the tax policies of a socialist nation. He would start to sound like Sarah Palin on Katie Couric. Nor does he seem to recognize that all democracies socialize certain functions: police, fire fighting, military, roads, public schools, sewers, water. This is for the greater good and we all accept it. It does not make us socialists.
In his book Audacity of Hope, Obama writes at length about the FAILURE of SOCIALISM. He enthusiastically states that American democracy is the greatest political system on earth. Obama is not a socialist, and he does not admire socialism.
Joe the plumber should stick to plumbing and leave public policy decisions to people who actually know what they are talking about.

Here’s what Joe said in an interview with Family Security:
W: There’s a lot of things I wish McCain would say. As far as this, yes, I would like him to speak. ***Not so much about small businesses, but just people in general that make this money.*** It’s not up to them to help America, I mean – let me rephrase that. It’s not – they shouldn’t be taxed more because they’ve succeeded. T
——
As you see, Joe is not just talking about himself. Shocking to some, perhaps, but he seems concerned about tax fairness for people who may be making more than he is right now.

The 700 Billion dollars given to Wall Street wasn’t a form of Socialism? With that huge handout, the Class War just went nuclear. Now the Middle Class wants a cut.

Hasn’t Obama been saying that those who make less than 250,000 will not see a tax “increase” and some won’t pay any at all? No increase means you will pay at the current rate and then when Bush’s cuts expire, won’t it increase?

Why cant Mccain ever say the term MIDDLECLASS? In the debates in his speeches never has he used that term Maybe a Man thats worth 100 Million Dollars, owns 7 houses and 13 cars cant say Middleclass Because he Doesnt know what its like to live with in his means you know like Pay check to Pay check!

The Obamabots are on Kool Aid Mountain making a voo doo doll of Joe the Plumber to go with the rest of their collection. Hillary is a fool because they have a doll of her as well. They are just going to dust her off and start sticking pins into it after Obama gets elected.

There is a reason this guy is a plumber and not say a rocket scientist.
Most of america doesn’t relate to anyone who makes more then 100,000 so this guy who will make 250,000 can cry himself to sleep with all his money.
And a plumber??? are you kidding me, the clock starts as soon as they pick up the phone, hire a plumber any time of the day, especially at night, and tell me that guy is having a rough time making ends meet when you get his bill.
What a jerk.

Did anyone catch Mccain in the debate admitting to the fact He wants to TAX our Health Insurance that is provided to us from our Employers, so what like its Income but He doesnt want to Tax a person netting a Quater of A Million dollars a year Get outta here old man!

Truth Matters says:
“We are against the distribution of wealth that has been going on where, through our taxes, the wealthy are pocketing all they can at the expense of the back bone of this country, the middle class.”
Do you believe you should keep what you earn? Who can better provide for your family, you or a beaurocrat? If you’re thrilled to pay your taxes there are no laws preventing you from overpaying. The IRS will gladly accept your donations.
It’s well known the “wealthy”, you know, those evil neer-do-wells who lounge about all day spending their inheritence, pay the overwhelming majority of taxes in this country. American businesses have the highest combined corporate tax rate among the 30 OECD countries. Why are you so insistent on punishing the economic engine of our nation? I don’t get it.

From the Bot Dictionary:
“Wealthy”: The guy in the tax bracket above yours.

As an independent and a physics prof, it’s easy to catch mistakes or distortions people make to support they’re sides:
Jake-”…he would be subject to the tax increase from 36% to 39% Obama would impose…”
TJ- “…even if the guy were to make $275k, he would only pay about $1k more in income taxes.”
Smitty- “A 39% tax on $275,000.00 is
$107,250.00, not $1,000.00. Do you do tax returns for a living? I do…”
Me-
$275K*(0.39-0.36) = $8250!!!
(i) TJ under-calculated the amount by almost a factor of 10.
(ii) Smitty mis-read TJ’s post and used the overall tax (rather than the DIFFERENCE) to invoke “sticker shock”, even though the number at a 36% rate is $99K which presumably would also warrant “sticker shock”.
Conclusions:
(a) TJ exaggerated
(b) Smitty lacks attention to detail (and made personal attacks)
(c) Smitty’s lack of attention to detail indicates that you might not want him to do your tax returns

Media continues to show its ignorance.
To wit, Joe the Plumber was talking to ObamACORN about his possibly taking over the business he works for and employing a few workers. Thereby punishing Joe the Plumber for his success.
ObamACORN (D-ACORN) wants to “spread your success around” to “those behind you”, so did Karl Marx.

right, we want small business to aim for low incomes…
geez, this column is assinine

American businesses have the highest combined corporate tax rate among the 30 OECD countries. Why are you so insistent on punishing the economic engine of our nation? I don’t get it.
————————-
Obviously not.
The average tax paid by the Fortune 500 was LESS than 18% last year.
Yes, the tax rate schedule says they SHOULD be paying 35%, but they don’t. THAT’S the problem. Pubs have instituted rules that allow the rich to avoid paying their share of taxes.
I pay more as a percentage of my income than the multi-million dollar companies! It is not right for wealthy corporations to ride on the backs of their middle class workers.

3 words to sum it up: Kall Rove Tactics.
Joe the Plumber is the most prefect example of the whole John McCaig campaign style!
Yesterday during an interview with this guy I already thought there is something fishy with this guy.
This guy is a republican plant, a setup. It’s one big major BS story.

It looks doubtful that President Obama will ask Joe to fix the toilets at the White House.

Poor Joe is already being labeled “loser”, “racist” by the MSM. He fits that neo-nazi look, yet he spoke for me. I am far from rich, just comfortable for a family of 4, but we fall into the “Obama Rich” bracket. Thank you Joe, you spoke for me. It is totally absurd that I spent so many years in college and 60 hour work weeks for 20 years to get to where I am and learn that I have to pay more taxes so that someone else can go buy something nice? My parents taught me as I teach my children, you want something nice, work hard and earn it, don’t expect it.

Oh, I get it now.
Anyone who comes on camera disagreeing with Obama is a “plant.”
What is it with shrubbery?
Obama – McCain is just like BUSH
Obamabots – McCain defenders are PLANTS

Awwww, those poor rich people.
They get to run the company in the ground and leave with ONLY $40 million dollars while the rest of the employees get laid off.
And then, after they run their big banks in the ground, they get to take $700 billion taxpayer dollars to help them cover up for their “mistakes/crimes”.
Poor babies.
Such a pity.
It’s not fair.
LET THEM EAT CAKE!

Why do Pubs have a problem with corporations paying their share of the burden in America?
Ronald Reagan RAISED corporate taxes. Is he not the quintessential Republican for you guys?
And screw Joe the, I’ll complain but I didn’t register to vote, plumber. Any plumber making over $250/k per year is not going to get sympathy from me. More power to him, but there are families in this nation that need tax relief just to pay their bills.
Tell “Maverick” anyone making a quarter million per year is not exactly suffering by most people’s standards.
But when you have 7 houses and 13 cars, had a sliver spoon your whole life, and you’re married to an heiress, I can see where you would be out of touch with 90% of America.

I don’t get it. So he’s complaining about having to pay more taxes if one day he’s successful and able to net $250,000 in income but right now he’s not making that. Did this guy graduate high school? Was this guy born yesterday? Does he really think with an 11 trillion dollar deficit the tax payers are not gonna have to pay the piper. Does he really think that the capital gains tax benefits him?

tell joe the plummer that i will gladly trade my money and my tax bracket for his. I didn’t think so, joe.

Ok..
Joe, the Pluber = Sam, the Fraud
a.k.a Sam, the Liar
Sam, the Republican Plant
Sam, in debt of Ohio
Sam, the return of the Keaton’s

HA HAHAHAAA HAH A!!! HAHAH AH!!HA AH!!!
HA HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
“Joe The Plumber, aka Joe Wurzelbacher, the Toledo plumber who became the hot topic of the last Presidential debate due to his rope-line confrontation with Barack Obama’s over the Democratic candidate’s tax plan, may not be a plumber, and may not be planning to buy a plumbing business where he will be netting $250,000 a year.
He isn’t in the Toledo Yellow Pages, he isn’t registered to vote and it’s more likely that his existence as a plumber buying a $250K business is as sincere as Sarah Palin asking Joe Biden if she can call him “Joe.”
Isn’t it interesting that Joe is buying a business that is making a profit of exactly $250K, the Obama tax break minimum. If we’re talking a business that is bottom lining at $250K, a standard business acquisition falls into the 4 to 1 investment area, which would call for Joe
is buying a business that is making a profit of exactly $250K, the Obama tax break minimum. A normal business acquisition falls into the 4 to 1 investment area, which would call for Joe to come up with $1,000,000 to purchase his $250K business. If that plumbing business had assets like trucks, equipment and offices, the cost could be far more.
Add to that Wurzelbacher doesn’t appear in the Toledo Yellow Pages listings, yet has been able to put together at least a million to invest, especially in these dire economic times, you begin to wonder whether Joe is a plumber or did someone in the McCain campaign find him in central casting?”

Wurzelbacher compared Obama to Sammy Davis Jr. in an interview with Katie Couric.

Joe the plumber is my hero! Get him!

Now the Obots are saying that Joe is bald scary racist.
Obama’s biggest challenge his separating himself from his fanatical salivating supporters. They are not democrats and have hijacked the DNC. I am voting for Mccain because in this race he is the best person for the job and the DNC needs to throw out the impostors aka Obamabot.

Serious…
Now this story is getting out… McCain is really losing his marbles.
It’s so lame…
If you pick a stand up guy, do some vetting. His pick for Joe, or Sam is almost as bad as the Palin pick.
This story is getting to uglier and uglier, makes my day to see old McCain really lost it this time!

bah, your post is very astute, though surely unintentionally so. You can rest assured that many will choose to work less and hire less too. Many more will choose to ship jobs overseas where it’s a lot cheaper to do business, plus the labor is much cheaper too.
How can the government afford to increase programs and give tax cuts when the tax revenue they collect continues to fall?

$250,000 refers to net income not gross revenue.
A 3% increase in the maximum tax bracket will not change lifestyles.
One way for a small businesse to reduce tax liablity is to hire people.
The more people working the better.
A tax cut for the middle class we’ll increase consumer spending. Which will help business owners. The Dow is tanking again because of declining consumer spending.
Some people that will pay more include
the former head of Lehman brothers would walk away with $350 million.
and the former head of Washington Mutual, who walked away with $17 million after only 17 days on the job.
They names should be more famous than Joe the Plumber.
Quick what is 3% of 350 million.

I thought the exchange between Obama and Joe Wurzelbacher was great because it showed two decent men with fundamentally different views on taxes having a respectful conversation. That’s how an election is supposed to be. I agree with Obama, but I respect Joe just the same.
And what a nice change this is from the “Obama is s-ca-r-y” nonsense coming out of the McCain camp lately.

bah – how simplistic – don’t want to pay more in taxes, so work less?
Maybe that works when you live w/your parents or are in school, but what about when you have a family, mortgage, car payments, saving for college, saving for retirement? … or should everyone work less, take a freeking vacation, and end up relying on the government of the moment?
Get a grip, get a job – maybe then you’ll get a life you appreciate, and a family you want to sustain.

Thanks, Jake, for asking the one pertinent question in this Joe Plumber phenomenon. He has a right to his opinions, but he is not germane to the points McCain was making last night.

mary lou. you are a simpleton so i will spell it out for you.
business who attempt to do the anti american things you mentioned in your post are free to do that.
after the liberals get control of this country ,new laws will be QUICKLY put in place that are RETROACTIVE as well and will begin to penalize companies who did already move overseas. many of them will return here, with the jobs they took because it wont be cost effective anymore. we ,the liberals will forthwith (after we get control of the government )heavily PENALIZE businesses that act like that ,with BIG $$$ fines and taxes .
in other words ,the things you mentioned,jobs going over seas, businesses firing to protect profits ,etc …well that kind of corporate behavior will quickly become a thing of the past.
the new liberal government will SPANK businesses with big taxes/fines when they move overseas ,freezing assests and funds .
the new liberal government will also put import tariffs in place so that any companies who DO leave and try to import their goods back here will pay 500% tariff at least.
see? all those things you mentioned MIGHT have happened with someone else running the government , but we liberals already know the selfish unpatriotic republican playbook by heart ,and we have the plan(and the political power,well after inauguration day anyway) to put all you republicans right where you need to be ,whether you agree or not…

Joe the Plumber has had quite a ride but I think he is a plant by the McCain campaign. He has already given interviews to conservative magazines, he is making the round of the morning shows. The fact is, his question to Obama wasn’t a question at all. Joe had already made up his mind that Obama’s plan is unfair and smacks of “socialism,” another Republican buzzword. This guy, he is not real.

Joe-the-Plumber (who by the way. is from my home-state and home-area, needs to take a lesson from my brother Gene-the-Plumber, who’s small plumbing company is experiencing a 60% decrease in business. Why? Because Mike-and-Michelle-Middle-Class cannot afford to build a house, buy a house, or even call the plumber. You can “say it ain’t so, Joe” — but reality is: that’s what happens when the middle-class has no money. An ugly fact of life: poverty tends to trickle up.

No matter where you stand, the policy of the past 8 years has caused completel disaster and it needs to be reveresed. Obama wants to reverse it. scream “socialism” all you want. the 95% of Americans that are hurting would love some wealth spread around. And to all you Christian republicans crying your eyes out, wouldn’t Jesus wanted us to help the less fortunate?

Joe Wurzelbacher doesn’t immediately turn up in the Ohio voter registration database, leading to some speculation last night that he’s not registered to vote.
But the Toledo Blade reports that he appears to be a registered Republican, and a primary voter at that:
Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican.
Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.
(This is, incidentally, the reason people worry about purging the voter rolls. They’re such a mess to begin with.)

The most brilliant part of Obama’s response to Joe the Plumber is that it doesn’t actually matter what Joe thinks about Obama’s response. Obama’s answer was directed at the voting public, to whom Obama made a lot of sense. That Joe doesn’t like the answer hardly matters: everyone else liked the explanation Obama have to Joe.
And reading the comments here, it looks like a lot of people have no idea how marginal taxes and tax brackets work.

Sen. McCain, Joe the Plumber & Sarah Palin:
Rich people SHOULD pay more taxes:
** You like our Military? Military is 20% of the budget. Defending the country benefits everyone; but it benefits the rich more, because they have more to defend. They have more homes to defend, more businesses to defend, more property value to defend … in the event of an invasion.
** Social Security – makes up another 20% of the budget — if you’ve put more into the system, you get higher payments when you retire.
** Investments in the nation’s infrastructure– transportation, education, research & development, energy, police subsidies, the courts, etc.– again are more useful to the rich. The interstates and airports benefit interstate commerce and people who can travel, not ghetto dwellers. Energy is used disproportionately by the rich and by industry.
** Education, better public schools benefit companies that benefit from a well-educated public. (If you don’t think that’s a benefit, go start up an engineering firm, or even a factory, in El Salvador.)
** The Bailout obviously benefits investors and large depositors. Rich people SHOULD have their taxes raised so THEY and THEY ALONE pay for the 700 Billion dollar bailout.
** Health Insurance. If the people are sick and can’t afford to stay well then the economy suffers because we will have an increased mortality rate. Who would clean the homes of these rich people if we are all dead

Turns out Joe the Plumber is a registered Republican who failed to pay his taxes two years ago and is not a licensed plumber.

Tax increases for the “fat cats” sounds pretty good to a lot of people right now.

Progressive taxes make sense. The American Dream ™ is great and all, but what Americans often ignore is the fact that the social, physical and financial structure of our society is designed to support The American Dream. Thus, when people accumulate wealth, they are only able to do so because the framework of our society has allowed them to. People act like it’s all due to their own sweat and tears, but in reality it’s due to our combined sweat and tears.
Thus, as your wealth increases, you should recognize that it’s not all you and contribute back to the society that supported your ability to achieve The American Dream. My family will be well above the $250K line. I have no problem paying more taxes. My education was subsidized by tax payers. My opportunities were thus enabled by each and every one of us/you, and it’s enabled me to succeed. I owe gratitude to all Americans for this and I will happily pay my fair share.

This is exactly why people hate liberals. You know what’s best for society, as long it falls in line with your ideals. I hope America wakes up and pushes you all back to the fringe where you belong.

So Joe the plumber is a registered republican. I thought that Obama was the great unifier working across party lines. I find it funny that Obamabots bring it up because I could obviously see from Joe’s demeanor was not as adoring as Obamabots and God forbid that anyone ask Obama a question rather than asking him if they could be his Myspace friend. There are a lot of undecided voters who are registered with some party.
Oooh His name is Samuel but he goes by Joe…Wow burn him at the stake.

The proposed tax increase would only take us back to the same tax policy that the upper brackets experienced prior to the current Bush administration. Bush gave a huge tax cut to the wealthy. Obama is saying he’d reverse that and give the cut to middle and low income earners.
Joe the Plumber is extremely confused about US tax practices. We’ve not had a uniform flat tax on income for everyone for as long as I can remember. We’ve always asked higher income earners to pay a higher percentage.
Joe, if you’re out there, think of it this way: regardless of your income level, all Americans have to pay for the basics like food, housing, fuel, etc. If you’re relatively poor, virtually all of your income goes to pay for basics. If you’re relatively wealthy, you have money left over and may spend it on nice things, vacations, etc. Essentially, our government taxes only income above that which is needed to meet only a low, very basic necessity standard of living. The higher you go above that standard, the higher percentage of income you are expected to contribute toward the cost of running our country (defense, building roads, providing services for disabled children, etc.)

Tyro says:
“And reading the comments here, it looks like a lot of people have no idea how marginal taxes and tax brackets work.”
Good point. Go to taxfoundation dot org and scroll down to the “Obama and McCain Tax Proposals Raise Marginal Tax Rates for Many Middle-Income Taxpayers” story. Click on the “Read the new Tax Foundation Fiscal Fact” link. It’s an eye opener for all the dummies out there who honestly believe a liberal Democrat will cut their taxes.

“Oooh His name is Samuel but he goes by Joe…Wow burn him at the stake.’
I bet he even drinks coffee instead of lattes. How gauche!

Welcome to Obamanation! Here is a working man providing a needed service, and the Obamabots ATTACK him for DARING to disagree with their Dear Leader.
Attention all socialists: If you create disincentives for businesses to provide VALUABLE services by overtaxing them, there won’t be enough of us working stiffs to pay all your big fat govt handouts.
Back off of Joe the plumber, he’s a hard working guy who does what he is SUPPOSED to do: work and pay his own way. Why don’t y’all get jobs and pay your own way?

Mack doesn’t like it being pointed out that Joe the Plumber is just another lying Republican who cheats on his taxes.

“Back off of Joe the plumber, he’s a hard working guy who does what he is SUPPOSED to do: work and pay his own way. Why don’t y’all get jobs and pay your own way?”
Ahh yes, another canard, if you want fair tax law you must be an unemployed person.

jill, how in the world is saying that Obama tap danced around the issue “like Sammy Davis, Jr.” racist? Would it have been racist if he had said “like Fred Astaire” instead?
Why is it that Obama supporters see racism lurking around every corner? And why is it that every criticism or Obama is deemed racist?
One would think you’re trying to silence any opposing views!

“Back off of Joe the plumber, he’s a hard working guy who does what he is SUPPOSED to do: work and pay his own way. Why don’t y’all get jobs and pay your own way?”
Hahaha…
It’s gonna blow up in McCain’s face…

It is interesting reading these comments. i am one of the 95%. DoI think it is going to help me what Obama proposes. I don’t think so. If you want to see what this country is going to look at from a very smooth talking Obama look at Michigan. We have a Minny look at what this country would be. Unemployment at 8.9%. they are talking double diget in the near future. We already have an Obama in womens clothing as a govenor. I voted for her the first go around, and after nothing she said got done I voted for someone else. i am not telling anyone to vote for Mc Cain. Look at records and the past. If Mr Obama has nothing to hide why has he not come out with his past relationships, college information, where his collage loans came from. I have an 18 year old daughter going to college. She would have liked to go to Harvard also, nut could never afford it. how did he. Mr Obama quit dancing around and give use firm hard undisputable facts. I am feed up with politions thinking the average person is stupid. I will finish with no matter who you vote for, research them and make sure they are really the best choice. Thank You

“Joe went to the event and did want any voter would do. Asked Obama to clarify something. It blew up in Obama’s face. So now according to Obama supporters Joe is a lying racist republican.”
you guys are the ones saying he’s a racist. No one here has argued that. He is a republican, not an ‘independent’ as he claimed, so that does make him a liar. A racist? No. So why is it every time the race card gets played, it’s a republican playing it?

If Obama can’t deal with a republican plant, how will he deal with Al Queda or Iran?
Obamabots you guys are running on fumes.
It is Joes fault because manchild Obama answered the question in true socialist fashion. Talk about revisionist history.

It is very interesting that Joe the Plumber turns out to not have a plumber’s license. Is it even legal that he is doing plumbing work? Again, regulations are in place to protect the public. Plumbing, electrical work, etc. is mandated to be done by a licensed professional so the homeowner won’t get scammed by some yahoo who thinks he knows what he is doing.
Joe the plumber needs to have an investigative reportercheck him out. He is just hired help but is now in a position to buy a business either worth $250,000 or grossing $250,000, depending on the different news article I’ve read. Yet he doesn’t seem to understand about taking a salary from your own business and/or business deductions. My brother-in-law works as a lot as a plumber, knows a lot of plumbers who own their own companies, works in a high-paying area of the country and he doesn’t know anyone making that kind of money. Things have been slow for the last two years.
Joe the plumber is a mighty suspicious character.

It is a common fact that wealth equals power. The more money I have to invest the better leverage I have whether it is in a shareholder meeting or with city / state governments. The wealth owner usually sets the rules and obviously has the natural advantage in employer-employee negotiation. The mildest way of neutralizing this advantage is by encouraging wealth creation near the grassroots rather than accumulation at the top. Obama’s tax policies are a step in this direction and I am proud to support them. Wealth created at the bottom will raise all boats, even those of the rich !

“he’s a hard working guy who does what he is SUPPOSED to do: work and pay his own way”
Except he doesn’t pay his taxes and doesn’t bothered to get licensed as a plumber.
I wonder how real plumbers feel such a scab.

“We have a Minny look at what this country would be. Unemployment at 8.9%. they are talking double diget in the near future.”
Exactly. It’s like what happened with Fannie and Freddie, we are sounding the alarm, and these people are too caught up in the adoration of their Messiah to notice.

Its funny to watch McCain try to cast himself as the defender of the American worker and middle class.
Let’s see, while he took favors from Keating and advanced deregulation, the country lost our manufacturing base; the national debt increased to astronomical proportions; wealth became even more concentrated in the hands of the top 500 people. I don’t think I want to continue to mortgage my daughter’s future with another 8 years of “trickle down” credit card economics.

USMC Joe was called a racist when this topic was first put up by jake. the comments have since been deleted. My point is you should be more concerned about Obama’s answer than about Joe. If Obama’s answer turned off voters that is not Joe’s fault. I don’t care who Joe is.
========================================
Fair enough, but I’d say people don’t care about Obama’s answer, either.

“talk about delusional. :-) Are you part of the band on the titanic or just one of the people listening to it pretending your ship isn’t sinking? ”
Obama’s economic plan is like sending the iceberg to rescue the Titanic.

Mack
“Si senor. We need an economy like we had under Jimmy Carter with double digit unemployement and out of control inflation. Vote Obama and vote yourself out of a job.”
Mack, pretty lame argument, but we’re used to it.
We need to return to the Clinton years back, not the Reagan, papa Bush and baby Bush era.
Economically conservative, cutting spending, socially liberal.
President Obama will do a fine job, with Warren Buffet, Luger and maybe Powell, Bloomberg we will get the smartest cabinet ever!

People who work 12, 12, 14 hour days make more money than people that work 8 hour days. People who work all day and go to school at night, make more than people who choose not to do so.
Punishing people for working longer hours or furthering their education by taking from them and giving to people who choose not to, is unfair, and worse than that, it discourages people from working longer hours or going to school.
These are not difficult concepts to grasp.

USMC have you seen the polls? Obama’s lead is shrinking and his Joe debacle had a lot to do with it because Obama outed himself as a socialist.
Come on, you guys have to stop protecting Obama. He is afraid to talk to Sean Hannity. Joe is a republican and a racist according to you Obamabots so Obama should not talk to him.
How is Obama going to talk to world leaders and adversaries?
Your Messiah had better grow some balls.
if he is elected

“Your Messiah had better grow some balls.
if he is elected”
He doesn’t have to. He’ll just sue whomever stands in his way.

“Darned kids with your fair taxes and josbs creation”
What job creation? When has he ever ceated a single job?

“People who work all day and go to school at night, make more than people who choose not to do so.”
then guess what einstein?
THEY HAVE TO PAY MORE IN TAXES SINCE THEY MADE MORE MONEY…THATS THE LAW OF THE LAND FOR MANY MANY YEARS…HAITI HAS LOWER TAXES, MUCH LOWER.
I PROPOSE THAT ANY AMERICANS WHO THINKS THEY PAY TOO MUCH IN TAXES IS FREE TO LEAVE FORTHWITH!!
ENJOY YOUR NEW LIFE WHEREVER AND PLEASE REMEMBER …DONT COME BACK HERE… THIS COUNTRY IS ABOUT TO CHANGE INTO A BETTER PLACE OF FAIRNESS AND EQUALITY…YOU WONT LIKE IT…
additionally ,for an economist you have a pretty shaky grasp of the situation at present ,imo.

usms keep believing, but Obama is going to lose. see ya.

USMC – you may not care about Joe the Plumber’s answer, but many in America do. 45% of Americans pay no tax. The idea is to collect taxes from the upper 5% and give that money to the lower 95%.
There is the notion of a fair tax where everyone pays the same percentage. Now, we all know that use of the word “fair” is different than the Obama’s use of the word.
I have seen the class war fare in all of these blogs. Look at the terrible things the democrats are saying. Obama should have repudiated Lewis calling McCain George Wallace. McCain was behind the the amnesty bill and the no child left behind bills – working with Ted Kennedy. If they will come after John McCain, they will eventually come after the other 55% of us.

dont forget hard working americans, in haiti you can work 24/7/365 ,all the overtime you want and pay almost NO TAXES…
my question is: WHY THE HELL ARENT YOU THERE ALREADY???
waiting for a cogent response…

Quite frankly I am not too concerned about how much someone making $250k is being taxed. Right now I am working in Community Mental Health as a therapist and have to work a second job as a bartender just in order to be able to come anywhere close to paying my $75k worth of student loans for a grand total of 70+ hours a week with no days off. Someone making 5 times as much as I am being taxed more is not something I am worried about.

Speaking of work, I better get back to it. Have a great day and God protect our soldiers!

Conservative nutcases who make all the arguements for hih imncome bracket people dont understand what democracy is. I personally am not democrat or Liberal but theres is somethihg in the tax arguement that makes sense to me. If the number of low income people are the majority and they are given a greater relief than the minority… its just plain democracy… the will of the majority… rite now “‘Joe’ the plumber or whatever he does for a living” figures in that top 5% of the economy. If he cant afford to own that business because of Obamas tax plan then he does not deserve it and rightly so. Let us not forget that this entire crisis was spawned because of the unjustified American dream to own a home. If Joe doesnt have the resources to handle a justifiable tax increase…and for gods sake we are talking of maybe a 1000 dollars or more per annum…i he cant handle that…he doesnt deserve to own that business. And whats all this horseshit plan on taxing the clerk who makes 10$ per hr at Walmart pays no taxes. This disdain for poor people combined with dogmatic arrogance caused the countyry to be in its current crisis.

Joe owes back taxes on his income and that has resulted in a lien on his property. How’s about Joe pays his PAST DUE taxes before he starts talking about what he might pay if he were to ever get a business license (which he doesn’t have) and make over $250,000 (which he does not make).

Ryan,
You sent me to this site a few weeks ago and I keep finding great comparitive views of the two candidates’ tax plans. Sure, their definition of marginal tax rate is pretty conservative but that’s OK with me.
Any comment on the Tax Foundation analysis that claims half of today’s income tax filers that pay no taxes (32% of Americans) will be receiving checks from you and me under the Obama plan?

He clearly does NOT want to be taxes that’s why he hasn’t paid his state taxes from 2007. Why is this registered Republican who voted in the primary for McCain getting free publicity for the McCain campaign?

ConcernedCitizenX point that Joe the Plumber does not like Obama’s tax plan is that Joe wants to work and be successful – make a place for his family.
If we tax punitively, we will drive all of the talent out of the country. The democrats on a “hate” high will then say go ahead leave. The democrats have become the “George Wallace” of the bad old days – worse.

Some of you people are amazing. You talk like Obama is going to punish any company that is successful, please try to remember that even if you’re a successful company making $250,000 or more you will still be paying LESS taxes than you did under Clinton and about the same as they were under Reagan. This isn’t about punishment, its about equilibrium. Returning to a more stable American industrial and financial engine. i don’t seem to recall society collapsing and businesses shutting down under Clinton, in fact, i seem to recall a federal surplus…

Actually, you claim that Obama’s plan talks only about “taxpayers” is false on its face as that is NOT what the Obama plan does.
The Obama plan calls welfare checks a “tax cut.” His plan revolves around dozens of new “refundable” tax credits. That means that, even if you owe $0 in tax, you can still claim the credit and get a refund from the government. That’s a welfare check. And eligibility is neither dependent on, nor even related to, you being a “taxpayer” (which most of us would define as a person who pays at least some non-$0 amount in taxes).
So, when Obama talks about 95% of taxpayers, he really means 95% of people. If he were only giving cuts to “taxpayers” as you say then there would be no refunding of these credits.
Under Obama if you fill out your tax form and the number in the “Tax Due” line is $0, but you have kids in day care, then you can claim Obama’s new “child care credit” and get a check for $5,000. How is this person a taxpayer, and how is a $5,000 handout a tax cut? Oh, that’s right, we’re working on whatever definition of those terms makes Obama’s plan sound good. The correct answer here is that these people are not taxpayers, and therefore the free money they receive is not a tax cut.

Ahaha … The Joe, the Plumber story.
It must be something like this…
Karl Rove:
We need a gimmick, a stunt for the next debate. Another SwiftBoot … anything. As long as it doesn’t isn’t to difficult. Sarah can’t handle it.
Rick Davis:
He will be in Ohio next week. Maybe we can get a guy of us and do some heckling, pretending like he is independent voter.
McCain:
I know the brother of the son in law of one of my best friend. You know Charles K.
Rick Davis:
Which Charles..
McCain:
Don’t be dumb, Charles Keating! He and his father are big republican supporters and donators. His name is Sam, he is a plumber.
Karl Grove:
Sam the Plumber, Sam the Plumber.. doesn’t have that Betcha, sixpack feeling. Let’s call him Joe… Yeah.. Joe The Plumber!
McCain:
Karl, my friend. You pulled it off again!

TW – Joe the plumber wants the tax plan to be the old fashioned definition of fair – everyone pays and everyone pays the same percentage.
The New Obama definition of the word “fair” is that only successful people pay. They worked hard, they deserve to pay more.

When Diane Sawyer asked Joe “the plumber” whether he had been contacted by the McCain campaign, Joe W. replied that he’d been contacted to go to a rally. Which rally? Was he asked to go to the Obama rally – or a McCain rally?

Tell you what, Joe.
You’re married with kids? Why should you get a deduction for those kids? Your choice, right? And you chose to buy a house – so let’s take away your mortgage deduction. In fact, let’s take away ALL your deductions.
Now let’s look at taxes. Your kids go to public school, use the local park district – you should pay for all of those, and I shouldn’t because I don’t use them.
Iraq War? You supported that, I don’t – you can pay for the whole thing. Stiglitz has it up to about 3 trillion dollars now in total.
How’s your tax bill looking now, Joe??

“I’m in the top 1% and I’m wondering how I can learn about these loop holes I keep hearing about. I got taxed HEAVILY last year, and if Obama gets elected, it will go higher. However, I’m an ardent Obama supporter, and I look at it this way. The middle class works 5 months a year to pay taxes, and they work 6.5 months to pay for their necessities. (home, auto, insurance, clothes, food, etc) I work about 5.5 months to pay taxes (state, property and federal), but I work about 1 month to cover basic necessities for the year. This leaves me with about 5.5 months of income to invest, go on vacation with, give to charity, etc. The rich in the country aren’t hurting. Their complaints about paying more in taxes are purely greed driven. (believe me, I even get tempted by the greed bug sometimes) Our economy needs a strong middle class, and trickle down economics doesn’t work.”
You have perfectly explained trickle down economics and why it does work. The 5.5 months of income you “invest, go on vacation with, give to charity, etc.” does more to create jobs and wealth for others than the 5.5 months of taxes you pay. Plus, you had the FREEDOM to choose where it went. It’s not about you, as a 1% earner, hurting or not. It’s about ALL tax payers in every bracket being able to keep more of THEIR MONEY, to “spread” as they see fit, not as the government see fit.
Many of us believe that the government already takes too much from ALL tax payers and want to see spending and taxes cut, not increased. You can disagree with this position based on some idea of “fairness” but the pure economics of it are that wealth is created when those who EARN money invest and spend it, creating jobs for others. Not through government mandated redistribution.

Whenever someone knows they are losing an argument, they switch their talking points from the issue at hand to a personal attack. Read through this thread and you will see whichever side is losing will stop discussing tax policy and start attacking Joe the plumber.
So for every personal attack you see on Joe the Plumber, understand they KNOW they are losing. They can’t attack the POLICY of fair taxation, so they attack the TAXPAYER. They learned that trick from Obama their Dear leader, the great hater of free speech.

The other thing I think Obama should stress more, is this question:
Why should companies who layoff Americans in favor of cheap labor overseas, get a break on their taxes? OBVIOUSLY THE CASH AINT TRICKLING DOWN at that point. I fear for how blind the Republicans are. Fear…

Higher taw rates for people earning more money are fair and in no way should they be considered a penalty. This is “penalty” is conservative rhetoric.
We pay taxes to maintain the “commons” ie roads schools, police and such. A business owner takes advantage of these “commons” to make money so he should pay for there use.
I own a small coffeehouse which means to say I own a espresso machine and a couple of refrigerators etcetera. If I am the only one working there I can go about 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week for a while, I know this because I did this after a few months it wears on you.
I own this machinery and rent a building, but with out employees to leverage these machines I really can’t make much money, so I need to hire some reasonably educated, people who can arrive to work via roads, and have safe dependable places to live. Every person I hire makes me more money.
I use more of the “commons” than they do, I use the “commons” to my advantage, I one day I hope to make enough money (250k) to pay higher taxes because that will mean that I am successful and at that point I will not feel bad that I pay my fair share, I love my country and would be proud the day my accountant tells me sorry dude but you are in the 250k bracket now!
Billy C.

“Honestly… I’m at this moment rolling on the ground laughing my pants off.”
Yeah, me too! When was the last time that we had a candidate that was friends with a domestic terroist, and that had a racist mentor for 20 years! Not to mention that he wouldn’t be able to pass a background check to work for the FBI!

“Say it ain’t so Joe. According to his hometown paper, the Toledo Blade, Joe isn’t a plumber.”
AHAHAHHAHAH…
Call the ambulance…I can’t breath!

Joe the Plummer is my new hero!
I love this guy. I love everything he said. What a great man!!
Basically Obama The Socialist wants to take Joe the Plummer of America’s money/profits that Joe America would’ve used to perhaps create more jobs or give out raises or bonuses to employees or create new products and services that would create even more jobs, raises, bonuses, etc….
Obama The Socialist wants to take that hunk of money and break it up into teeny weeny, itsy bitsy little bits so that more people can be in line for handouts.
John “I’m not Bush” McCain and Sarah Palin and Joe the Plummer are the hope and future of American exceptionalism.

“John “I’m not Bush” McCain and Sarah Palin and Joe the Plummer are the hope and future of American exceptionalism. ”
AHAHAHHAHA
Sorry, that is mean…
I respect your opinion. We may not agree on all the issues, Palin (don’t know how to pronounce nuclear), Joe the Plumber (which isn’t a plumber at all), but I still respect McCain for what he has done in the past for this country.

Take a look at what Obama and Ayers did while chairing the Annenburg Challenge. They wasted 49 million with no measurable results! You can’t just keep throwing money at the problem. It doesn’t work.

It’s amazing. Joe the Plumber is able to see that Socialism doesn’t work, but Ivy-league educated Obama seems to think it does. Common sense tells you it doesn’t. Socialism penalizes those who work hard, and rewards those who don’t! Eventually, there is no incentive to work hard, so nobody does, and then everybody suffers. This is so obvious! It can’t be argued. Socialism kills incentive! Capitalism rewards incentive!! Why on earth would anyone promote a system that kills incentive?
Seriously, why?

The theme from Obama seems to be that there is a limit to how much you can make without being forced to “spread the wealth” to early education programs and the like.
Forget Joe, I am thinking of a local restaurant that probably brings in $500,000 net a year. Raise their taxes 5%? I am thinking of the print shop that has 30-40 employees and brings in a several million a year…these are real job generators that will be impacted by Obama’s tax hikes. If it is an LLC, then it is taxed as an individual…there goes the extra employee or the expansion or the new machine…
You don’t get something for nothing, but raising taxes on these guys is going to hurt them…even if they are “big” The problem is Obama doesn’t tell us where the “small” ends and “big” begins…
More credits and loopholes for what the government decides is a beneficial activity, more complexity, more servitude…
Also, Obama’s capital gains cut for small businesses is nonsensical. Do plumbing businesses have a lot of stock and real estate investments?
Augh! He is smooth…just like a lawyer…shading the truth skillfully…spoonful of sugar…sleep peacefully…

”
You just made your own education or lack thereof apparent.
”
Yes… in this case you’re righ.
I’m dutch, moved to the states to work as a developer 10 years ago.
I life in code, so forgive any faults in writing, it’s not my native language.

Rachel – so you claim Joe the Plumber is ignorant if he chooses to pick the path where hard work will win – rather than some pandering hand out. I guess Joe’s vote is not so easily bought and sold as is yours.

Fact – the vast majority of small business owners in the United States make less than $250,000 per year. I own a small business and would be delighted to make over $250,000 per year, so I could do my patriotic duty and pay more taxes.
The Toledo Blade reports that Joe the Plumber is not a licensed plumber and there is no record of him completing or even attending any plumbing apprenticeship program. The company he works for and says he wants to buy, AW Newell Inc, appears to be a home-based business. A small business website reports that it is estimated to have two employees and total revenue of $100,000 per year. Divorce court records report that Joe’s income in 2006 was $40,000. Joe favors the flat tax and is opposed in principle to Social Security. Unless the Republicans shower money on Joe as a publicity stunt, his chances of making over $250,000 per year any time soon appear to be essentially zero. It seems that Joe the Plumber has a big problem telling the truth about his own business prospects. He would rather attack Obama’s economic and tax plans, which would actually benefit him and people like him across America.
- Jim Heaphy

Obama and his plan are socialistic…he has communist leanings…his “father figure”/mentor was a member of the communist party…and the media keeps ignoring it, because they are so liberal…WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
……………………….
In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama’s life as a “secret smoker” and how he “went to great lengths to conceal the habit.” But what about Obama’s secret political life? It turns out that Obama’s childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.
In his books, Obama admits attending “socialist conferences” and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a “hard-core academic Marxist,” which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.
However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his “poetry” and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just “Frank.”
The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What’s more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations….
This is just a small exerpt…do your research. There is much more to this story…

I can’t wait for Obama to become present so I can get these free handouts everyone is talking about. You know, when he takes money from rich people and simply hands it out to everyone else. Thats gonna happen

Why is it “fair” to take money from people who earned it and give it away in programs to people who did not earn it?
I was a life long democrat and think that Joe the Plumber involved us all in a Thoreau like moment. What has the US government been doing redistributing wealth from individuals?

america it’s time to see through obama’s economic fasod: 1) he trained acorn leaders, who in turn vigorously intimidated banks into issuing subprime loans to people with poor credit, which in turn ultimately was the cause of the financial crisis we find ourselves in, but 2) obama wants to take hard working american’s money and ‘spread the wealth around’ to others less fortunate. that’s not a capitalistic, american dream way of government. that’s a socialist way of doing things.

jock59801 – there are a lot of things that we can all swallow. The point remains, why is it fair to over tax some and not others?
I think this 95% free ride tax swindle is a cheap ploy to buy votes.

Some of my friends have their own small company and they are not worried about the tax at all, they just make sure that they don’t earn more then 250,00,– income.
They invest much of the profits back into their company, training the personnel,take care that personnel is happy and content.
It’s about living within your means and invest the profits back in the company to stay competitive.

CLabs – that is a fair tale about living with in your means for small business people. They are motivated to succeed. If your definition of success says they have to make less than some arbitrary number you are forcing your will on them and wrecking the economy.
Is it fair for you to define how they should work? There is no fairness in you saying they cannot make over some number – which by the way sounds large today, but wait until we get Jimmy Carter sized inflation.

This idea that we are only going to go after the upper 5% and that is somehow fair. It is just another form for discrimination and a way to divide the nation. 5% means 1 in 20. Lets create a new minority group that can be loathed by all – because they are successful.

It’s easy to focus on fatcat CEOs as the vision of the 5% who get hit by Obama’s plans. But, it covers regular people who’d consider themselves middle class. I.e, double earner household w/2 kids, parents earning more than $250K –
since there was talk about DC last night, look to DC metro area – with a mix of govt, law firm, corporate, etc.
39% income tax – 97,500
7.5% SSI/FICA *2 -12,900
State tax (in VA, -14,000
TOTAL TAX 124400
NET 125,600 (50% )
Minimal cost of living annually 70,000 (bare bones budget, per EPI). Figure it’s more like 100,000 to account for actual mortgage payments vs rentals (EPI uses $1400 monthly housing, which in DC won’t get you much), better than minimal daycare, etc.
REM 25,6000 to be somehow split b/w retirement 401(k), college savings, emergency funds/savings, etc.
Vacations? No. Retail shopping? No. Dinners out? No. Savings? No. Medical emergency funds? No. Another 3% for taxes? only by dipping into retirement or college.
Better than others who aren’t working or making as much — in some ways yes, in other ways … it’s just as tight.
Isn’t it great to be “rich” in America

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” —Thomas Jefferson

Look, those making in the millions have all kinds of accountants and use tax loopholes to the point where they pay very little taxes, in fact in often cases less taxes than the average middle class family. That’s insane. It’s about time that we as Americans develop some sense of social justice and social responsibility. We’ve continued to perpetuate the idea that it’s every man/woman for him/herself. Is that what you really want to pass on to your children. And as for those of you who may be Christians, I would think that this idea would be appealing. The early church shared all that they had with each other (See Acts). For those who are non-Christians, I believe that we have a Human/Moral imperative to help each other for the good of all to build a strong nation.

“Christians, I would think that this idea would be appealing … non-Christians, I believe that we have a Human/Moral imperative to help each other for the good of all to build a strong nation.
Posted by: D. Vanderpool”
Right on! You just don’t know why. My wife and I work very hard to provide our family a good life, so nobody else has to. Then, after we take care of ourselves, we help take care of those in need through cash donations, donations of material items, and volunteering.
No offense but I want to be in charge of where my charity dollars go. I’m far more efficient (most of us are actually) than a beurocratic government is with such things!
Oh … did I mention I donate to my church too?

MLD, your math is way way off!
They doin’t tax you 39% of 250,000 That would be unfair! Everyone is taxes at the same rate until a certain level. I don’t recall what they are, but everyone, i mean EVERYONE is taxed the same to to certain levels.
If same makes $50,000 and Joe makes 250,00, they are both taxes at the same lower rate for that same 50,00.. so he’s not taxed 125,000, that’s just not true.
In addition, he would only pay 3% for the amout he makes OVER 250,000! and with a tax cut in the first 200,000, he would probably see a net gain in his pocket. In other words, making $280,000 after deductions would be about $900 in additional taxes over the present rate.
Lets not forget that Bush lowered these rates from 39 to 36 ‘temporarilly’ in 2001. At the time, I thought it was unfair because there was very little cut in the lower income areas compared to a 3% savings to the most wealthy.
People need to understand taxes.. Good god! Know what you’re talking about before you do dumb calculations.
Add in that if joe makes 280,000 and is married and owns a home, he’ll get at least 20,000-25,000 in deductions, so if he made 280,000(which he doesn’t), he would only be taxed that higher rate on $5000-10,000… with the $1200 he’d save on the lower tax rates, and the $250 he would spend on the tax increaase, he’d still be better off than he was before, and better off than on Mccains plan.
I I before he hits that tax rate.

Chairman,
Individual charitable donation is commendable, but history shows that this drops extremely low in times of economic turmoil and most charities do not survive soley from individual private donations. Taxes,although painful are necessary. If you think Obama’s tax plans aren’t sustainable, vote for McCain and let me know in 5 years (since he won’t be serving a 2nd term) if you’re in line at the local foodbank or that you can afford health care for your family off of the $5000 he plans on giving you. Good luck with that. I don’t mind paying some higher taxes if I know that I can feed my family and go to the doctor when we get sick.

I paid more taxes than he makes money… Maybe McCain should give me a call instead. This guy is a joker.

MrUniteUs – you cannot or are unwilling to see that Joe the plumber thinks of over taxing one segment of the country is unfair and counter productive.
Joe gets it and he is one who would benefit from the pandering scheme by Obama. It sounds like a line Hugo Chavez would put out there – 95% of the people will see no tax increase. There is no thought of why or to whom that money is going.

To CLabs:
I live in the DC suburbs. I make about 85k and my wife makes 90k (175k combined income). We have a $650,000 home. By all accounts, this is a fairly good salary, probably considered slightly above middle class, even in VA. Even given the bush tax cuts over the past 8 years, we will STILL see a lower tax burden under Obama’s plan. And guess what? We currently pay a lower amount of taxes, by percentage, than I did 6 years ago making 48k and renting. Even on my small scale, it’s obvious that the more you make in this country, the more opportunities you have to take advantage of loopholes in the tax code to lower your payments. At the same time, we’re now better able to financially absorb the income tax burden placed on us than we were back then. The multimillionaires in this country have business and investment tax shelters that practically guarantee that they pay a fraction of the tax bracket in which they’re actually slotted. A $5 million earner with a good tax attorney will pay a far lower percentage of taxes than a guy trying to make rent on his $38,000 salary.
Distribution of wealth? Not even close!
Guys, take your adjusted gross income and plug it into the Tax Plan Calculator to see if Obama’s plan would benefit you.

jock59801 says “Nobody’s “incentive to succeed” is being taken away. Give it up.”
I guess Jock is missing the story. Joe the plumber stated quite openly that he feels that the Obama tax policy directly attacks his incentive to succeed.
Now, on your give it up phrase, the democratic machine would very much like us all to give it up. You might try calling me some names or threatening me. Those seem to be the current democratic techniques. I will never vote democratic again – and yes, I would benefit from the Obama tax pander.

It has been said, but for those who think that a higher tax rate is going to stop someone from buying a business or expanding, you don’t know jack about taxes.
A person making over $250K pays the same rate on the first 40K as someone who only makes 40K, the same rate on the next 60K as someone who makes 100K, and so on. The rate increases only on the dollars above certain points.
That means that someone making 250K would not pay 39% on all of the 250K, only on the amount above 250K. Thus if Joe or his business were to make 278K (now admitted to be completely false), the taxes at a 39% rate on 28K would be $840 more than at a 36% rate, or $1680 more than a 33% rate. That’s per year – and that doesn’t include Obama’s $1K credit.
Tell me that a person making $278K paying $680 more per year is some big bad socialist handout.
You have your choice – no tax cuts for the real middle class, bigger deficits, or letting people who won’t even miss that $680 shoulder just a little bit more of the burden.
I am so tired of ignorance and people who don’t understand how taxes work spouting off talking points that are not even in their own best interest. Let’s get educated and be reasonable and responsible.
The Joe thing never added up – it is impossible for the higher tax rate to preclude either an individual or a business making that kind of income or profit from expanding or purchasing a business. The amount of taxes is just too small to make a difference if the business is worth having. Now we start to get the truth – it was all a setup, a red herring, a lie.

light headed Joe: “Joe the plumber stated quite openly that he feels that the Obama tax policy directly attacks his incentive to succeed.”
And everything Joe the plumber says is automatically the Truth? Apparently Joe isn’t even making that much.
If you were starting a new project where you expected to make $100,000, would you give up on it completely just because you could only make $97,000?

Have you seen all the news on Joe The Plumber today?
First off, turns out Joe doesn’t have a plumbers license, nor does the company he works for/wants to buy. Both of which are required in his County -
In addition, he has two tax liens against him – one for $1182 and a second for $1261, both dating back to early 2007. Owing all those back taxes and possibly getting his company shut down, he needs those tax breaks he’d get under Obama’s plan more than ever!
Boy, McCain sure knows how to pick a winner when it comes to GOP heroes (and VP running mates)!

McCain can pick ‘ordinary Joe’ citizens as well as he can pick vice-presidents.

I make less than 250,000 a year. I want the Obama tax breaks. I’m more interested in getting the extra money to pay my bills and get out of debt than in freak-outs over philosophical economic systems by people who sound like they have lots of time on their hands and don’t need a tax break. I don’t have that luxury. Obama is definitely in touch with me. I like the idea of some extra money in my pocket and who knows maybe after I pay my bills I might be able to afford some of those widgets the people with businesses making over 250k are selling, right now I can’t. The entire year I’ve bought one new dress and it was $20, so cheaply made it’s already falling apart, luckily I can sew, and apparently lots of people are in my situation because retail sales are down and look bleak even for the holiday season. And right now too much of my money is going to my medical bills getting two of my prescription pills (with insurance) costs me $70 a month, if I didn’t need them I wouldn’t take them. I tried skipping a week once and ended up missing two days of work that week. Obama looks like he’ll do right by me on health care too. I am voting Obama all the way.

BTW.
I studied electrical engineering.
these morons dont have a clue what a BSEE degree is… but i do. ;)

McCain has stated as President he would never sign a bill with “earmarks”. The Wall Street bailout bill had many “earmarks”, and McCain endorsed and voted for this bill. What will McCain really do as President when a similar emergency bill containing “earmarks” awaits his signature? Do you really think McCain can “maverick” his will on your state Senator or Representative for your pet project?

“Well, I mean, quite honestly, why should they be penalized for being successful?” Wurzelbacher asked. “I mean, that’s what you’re telling me. That’s what it sounds like you’re saying. That’s wrong. Because you’re successful, you have to pay more than everybody else? We all live in this country. It’s a basic right. And Obama wants to take that basic right and penalize me for it, is what it comes down to.” – Joe The Plumber
Just because you make a lot of money does not mean you are successful. President Bush before becoming President made more a quarter of a million a year and so far he has not been successful at anything. Some people make this much per year because their rich gandpa or daddy give them a huge salary and fancy job title but they may not do anything. Enron’s corporate heads made huge amounts of money. Would Joe the plumber call them successful. What about the guy who was the CEO of Washington Mutual made close to 20 million in his less than 3 weeks as CEO before WaMu went belly up. Would Joe the plumber call him successful.
Joe forget being a plumber you should become a comedian.
Coming to a comedy club near you Larry The Cable Guy with special guest Joe The Plumber

This is very good explanation of Small Business Tax that was big discussion between Obama and McCain. Actually what Obama said is pretty true. McCain claims not true.
NOTE EXPLAINS WELL AMOUNT OF MONEY OVER 250,000 AND AMOUNT YOU ACTUALLY THE INCREASE ON. IS NOT FULL AMOUNT. READ WHOLE ARTICLE. WRITTEN BY EXPERTS MONEY NEWS
In speech after speech, presidential candidate John McCain hammers on the claim that his rival Barack Obama will raise taxes on many small businesses.
At the debate on Wednesday night, McCain said, “The small businesses that we’re talking about would receive an increase in their taxes right now.”
More typically he has said: “What [Obama] hasn’t told you is that he would tax half of the income of small businesses in America,” a line used in La Crosse, Wisc., last week.
Should small business owners fear for their wallets if Obama is elected? Not the vast majority, business and tax experts say.
To make its claim, according to a McCain spokesman, the campaign counts as a small-business owner any taxpayer who files a Schedule C, E or F – the forms used to report gains and losses from business ventures and farms.
Using that definition and citing IRS data, the campaign notes that “56.8% of total small business income is earned by businesses in the top two rates, which Barack Obama has pledged to raise.”
It’s true that Obama has proposed raising taxes on the top two income rates.
But there are three main problems with McCain’s charge.
What is a small business?
First, it relies on a broad definition of what counts as a small business, including everyone who files a Schedule C, E and F.
But most people who file those forms don’t run a business for a living: Those forms are also used to report income from freelance and consulting work, real-estate rentals, and most other non-salary sources.
For example, McCain and Obama both file Schedule C returns, thanks to their book royalties – but they hardly should be considered small business owners.
In 2005, there were 21.5 million Schedule C returns filed, according to the IRS.
A more realistic definition of small businesses turns up far fewer firms. The Small Business Administration estimates that there were 6 million small businesses in 2005, as measured by those with fewer than 500 employees and with staff on the payroll other than the owner.
Who pays?
Second, even using the broad definition of small business that McCain likes, very few owners would see their own taxes rise.
That’s because the lion’s share of taxable income comes from a small number of wealthy businesses. Out of 34.7 million filers with business income on Schedules C, E or F, 479,000 filers fall into the top two brackets, according to an analysis of projected 2009 filings by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
The other 34.3 million – or 98.6% – would be unaffected by Obama’s proposed rate hike.
That includes Joe “The Plumber” Wurzelbacher, whom McCain invoked nearly two dozen times at the debate Wednesday night to illustrate the plight of the average worker and small business owner.
“Joe wants to buy the business that he has been in for all of these years … he wanted to buy the business but he looked at your tax plan and he saw that he was going to pay much higher taxes,” McCain said.
In an interview afterward with WTOL, Wurzelbacher acknowledged that he’d still like to eventually buy the plumbing company he works for but that he wouldn’t yet be hit by higher taxes.
“I want to set the record straight: Currently I would not fall into Barack Obama’s $250,000-plus,” he said. “But if I’m lucky in business and taxes don’t go up then maybe I can grow the business and be in that tax bracket – well, let me rephrase it. Hopefully, that tax won’t be there.”
Few owners are that lucky in business. In a member survey conducted late last year, the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) found that only 14% of respondents said they had $200,000 or more in annual income.
As Tax Policy Center fellow Len Berman recently told Fortune Small Business: “Most owners of small businesses have small incomes.”
What gets taxed?
Third, even if you’re one of the rare business owners making enough money to be affected by Obama’s proposed tax increases, you still won’t see a big hike in your tax bill.
McCain’s claim that Obama “will increase taxes on 50% of small business revenue” – the line he used in the second presidential debate – is incorrect because of how income is taxed.
If a business owner falls into the top bracket, that doesn’t mean that all of his or her income is taxed at the highest level.
For example: If a small-business owner makes $210,000 in taxable income, he edges into the 33% bracket, one of the two top tax rates that Obama would like to raise.
But he would pay the higher tax only on the amount that exceeds the cutoff – in 2007, the two top tax rates applied to single filers with income of $160,850 or more and joint filers with income of at least $195,850. As a single filer, this business owner would see his federal taxes increase $1,475 under Obama’s plan, which calls for raising the 33% tax rate to 36%.
“While Obama does favor raising the top two rates, the quote is not true because not all the small business income of those in the top two rates is taxed at the 33% and 35% rates,” said Gerald Prante, a senior economist at the nonpartisan Tax Foundation.
The bottom line: McCain’s claim only works by using an overly broad definition of what counts as a “small business” – and even with that definition, fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama’s proposed rate increase. For those who are affected, the increase would be levied only on a part of their earnings, not all of them.

According to Obama’s definition, me and my wife are ‘rich.’ Even though we work 13-14hr days and commute 3hrs a day. We work hard so that we won’t have to in our ‘golden years’ and so we can provide our children the opportunities in life we never had. Until 5 yrs ago, I’ve always held at least 2 jobs and usually held 3.
We do not own a business we simply work VERY hard and take pride in our work. Neither of us ever got or took a handout from the government or anyone else, however both of us started out as the lowest paid government employees on the GS scale, we both started out as E1s in the military when we were 18 and after 22 years of combined military service, we’ve worked our way into becoming “rich” (Obama’s definition not ours).
So if I understand Obama’s tax plan, now were simply supposed give even MORE (we are already highly taxed as is) of our hard earned money to those who didn’t/don’t work as hard as we do? Why? If you listen to liberals, it’s because “it’s the fair thing to do,” when was life ever fair? Where was my handout when I was living off of Raman noodles and PB&J sandwiches because we couldn’t make the ends meet while we were in the military? We wanted more, we wanted a better life for ourselves and our children, so we simply worked HARDER.
America is the land of the free and home of the brave, it is what YOU make of it. It is NOT the land of entitlements, socialistic money transfers, or handouts. I do not begrudge my fellow American citizens a hand up, but never…NEVER a hand out. That just won’t do.
If you feel you ‘deserve more money,’ then work harder and/or get another job. It’s quite simple to me…

If Joe is making $250,000 a year then he is doing extremely well. I’m not shedding a tear for him. The average American makes a mere fraction of that. I’m sure his accountant will find plenty of nice deductions and tax shelters for him. So he’ll be just fine.

To the Canadian Observer:
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I’ve been working this very schedule for 4 years now, my Wife started working the same schedule this year.
As I previously posted, it’s nothing new to me, I’ve always had several jobs to ensure the financial security of my family. We work hard so our children can have opportunities we never had and so our financial security is rock solid when we retire. What about that is funny to you?
You see, my family isn’t afraid to work to achieve a better life for ourselves and for our future security, I don’t burden my fellow citizens with laziness. We don’t sit around asking each other, why isn’t life fair, nor do we believe laziness should be rewarded with socialistic tendencies.
As I previously stated, it’s very simple, if you want it…go out and WORK for it, don’t expect a handout.
It’s a shame others don’t share our view point on the ethic of hard work, if others did the greatest country on earth would be even greater.

This is so silly… basically it all comes down to 2 points of view… the “trickle down theory” rep idea of economics and the “build from the ground up theory” dem idea of economics. I believe McCain chose well using “Joe the Plumber” as his example, who knows as well as a plumber what really trickles down….

“Let me see. A tax break for the middle class which would increase spending, grow the economy and help to raise people into the middle class so they could also add to the economic success is a socialistic idea.”
It never works.
Jobs will be lost.

When you drive out small business with tax punishments, the large corporations dominate the market. Just the way Democrats like obama want it, when they, for example, give tax breaks to oil companies. So much for the little guy.

Sorry Josh – My post was deleted by ABC. Look up the taxfoundation online for answers.
And why do over 70% of Americans own homes when 40% of Americans pay $0 Fed Income Tax? And why are we in this mess? Tough questions?

Joe the Plumber says:
- He’s going to buy his employer’s plumbing company
- Which makes over $250K
- So his taxes will increase under Obama’s plan
Except that
- He isn’t going to buy the company
- Which doesn’t make over $250K anyway
- And his taxes would actually be lower under Obama’s plan
Not to mention that his name isn’t Joe, and he is not technically a plumber.
He should be a laughingstock, but instead McCain/Palin have made him a centerpiece of their campaign. He even speaks and takes questions at their rallies.
They must really think their supporters are idiots. And judging from the wildly positive reactions he elicits, maybe they are right.

It is NOT the land of entitlements, socialistic money transfers, or handouts. I do not begrudge my fellow American citizens a hand up, but never…NEVER a hand out. That just won’t do.