Palin — Pans and Plaudits

I come down on Sarah’s side. She was poised, articulate, and engaging. I loved her “It’s ‘drill baby drill’ line” and her frequent references to specific things she did as governor of Alaska. I loved the way she winked at her dad when she spoke of him, praised Biden’s wife’s career as a teacher, and advocated for more support for public education. She had style but also substance throughout. Loved it.

Sarah all the way. Anyone who thinks Biden didn’t get his clock cleaned has long ago decided to vote for Obama anyway. They probably didn’t even watch the debate, but like Obamabots, have to perpetuate the party line.

The collective cheer that you hear coming up from the Republican side is the same one that comes up from a crowded airplane that safely lands with one flat tire. Everyone talks about the briliance of the pilot for avoiding a horrible disaster.

cutesy gestures, lack of any real knowledge (the real world is much more like an interview than a debate you get to repeat memorized talking points on!) and saying the same little ‘maverick’ crap over and over. If this means to you that a woman who cannot even name a Supreme Court case and that foreign policy means she can ‘see Russia from here’, is qualified to be President (look at McCain’s health history), good luck to you. I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you.

Two snap polls by CNN & by CBS both show that Biden won the debate by a huge margin.
It no surprise as Palin was not debating… she was merely repeating all the talking points she had crammed over last few weeks. How else would you explain her ‘responses’ which were in no way connected to the questions asked?

Emm says “Anyone who thinks Biden didn’t get his clock cleaned has long ago decided to vote for Obama anyway”
_____________________________________________
Uncommitted Voters tracked during the debate and post debate on numerous news stations gave Biden the win by over a 2 to 1 margin.

* If you grow up in Hawaii , raised by your grandparents, you’re ‘exotic, different.’
* Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.
* If your name is Barack you’re a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
* Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you’re a maverick.
* Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.
* Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you’re well grounded.
* If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you don’t have any real leadership experience.
* If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you’re qualified to become the country’s second highest ranking executive and next in line behind a man in his eighth decade.
* If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re not a real Christian.
* If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and then left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you’re a true Christian.
* If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
* If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state’s school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you’re very responsible.
* If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family’s values don’t represent America ‘s.
* If your husband is nicknamed ‘First Dude’, with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn’t register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
ok – now I get it…. or do I?

Biden took it easy on her. If he would have come out mistating her record as she did his sexism would have been cried.
Biden easily won this simply by not laughing at her answers. Or should I say unanswers.

Partisans aside (because people who were Republicans and pro-McCain will love McCain and pro-Democrats will love Biden), the night belongs by a long shot to Obama. The best use of the VP debate is to have the VPs attack their opponent’s PRESIDENTIAL pick. The people I saw the debate with (which included people from both parties and a few Independants) thought that Palin spent so much time spouting out slogans that she didn’t talk about substance or attach Obama.
Biden, meanwhile, attacked McCain at every step. The result is that I think a lot of people on the fence will find Palin’s tact of speaking fast and in circles to be little more than rhetorical cotton candy (all fluff, but no substance).
BTW, to “John”, Frank Lutz did not have a unbiased focus group. Lutz is a not a credible source of information and there is a reason why he is only quoted on Fox News.

It was funny to watch Biden’s reaction to Palin last night, I think he genuinely liked her, you would see him smiling at her jokes and then he would like snap back to reality and get a little condescending or give that snarly look and then change back. Overall, Sarah took the night, she speaks to the people, she doesn’t speak at you or over you. She didn’t seem rattled in the least, was friendly and personable to everyone. She stated her facts and gave valid arguments while Joe just got caught up in her backdraft.

These very same pundits that critize Palin’s lack of experience and details manage to heep praise on Obama who somehow has mastered “facts” all the while being an outsider. These are also the same ones that defended Bill Clinton’s lack of experience while promoting his experience as governor.

I thought you had to answer the questions in a debate. Palin is an empty suit.

Look, there is no doubt that Biden won the substance debate. But this time next week, who’s message are you going to remember from last night? I think there’s no doubt that is was Sarah Palin’s.
Yes she was short on detail, but she repeated the party mantra of low taxes & victory in Iraq. The only thing I will remember from Biden was when he got teary.

I thought Palin did great.
I did think though that Biden did a better job than Obama in his debate. Obama and Palin seem to more equals in vice presidential roles and McCain and Biden are more on target for what is needed in a president.
Tell me, why isn’t Biden at the top of the ticket?

Did Palin really answer any questions she was asked with a straight forward answer if she did I did not hear them,she did more dodging questions and had no real to the point answers.She will have a hard time answering questions on a one on interview.

I was very relieved as a female to see that Palin did not fall flat on her face again. However, after coming to work today, and discussing the debate with my co-workers, I have to say that all of them feel that she is not really qualified to be president if something happened to McCain. Every single one of them thought that Biden would be qualified if something happened to Obama.
I would like to say that I wish she would not being so folksy. I am not interested in “back to Ya”, joe sixpack, and hockey moms. I want to know how you would govern. Stop the folksy act and perform like every other canidate.

At least Palin looked at Biden!

How do I know she won? Duh — Because the MSM says she didn’t. LOL

I can’t believe that anybody is still listening to CNN of MSNBC. Hahahah — Of course their polls will say Biden won. Is the sky blue? Is the grass green?

Mark:
The argument that “substance doesn’t matter” is, unfortunately, generally right. However, what lasting impressionistic mark do you think Palin made? Again, forget the partisans, who love or hate her. She suffered greatly from putting out a haze of words with no real clear message. The “hockey mom” thing? Well, she already had that.
Biden, on the other hand, owned the only really emotionally powerful moment of the debate. That kind of thing sticks.

Have to give her credit for even showing up. And she sure can talk. What she says is another story. She had her own agenda, it seems. She didn’t really stay on topic and just rambled on about her and the Maverick and what a great team they will make. Yeah, too bad she won’t get a chance to implement her plans come Nov. 4th.

As a Republican, I think she did great!
As a Democrat, I think she sucked!
So as you may have noticed, my opinion’s split among partisan lines :P

I don’t think Palin did well in the debate at all. First off I didn’t like her response to Biden when he called her out on not answering the question. That is what a debate *is* You are supposed to answer the question that you are asked.
This is why we didn’t see any major stumbles on her part. It seemed like whenever she was asked a question that she either didn’t want to answer or couldn’t intelligently answer she either A. started talking about energy B. started to talk about Obama raising taxes on everyone or C. began babbling about her record and her being a “joe sixpack” American and a maverick.
I thought it was absolutely terrible. It seems like everyone is just so happy that she didn’t come off as a moron. Its like the child left behind program for politics. As long as she passes the low bar being set she gets to move on to the next grade.

In my opinion the sad thing is:
neither McCain or Obama are what the country needs right now. But it’s the only choices given. Which may end up to be a sad case for America. The only hope we the people have is that whomever is elected surrounds himself with talanted informed people. I would be very interested to hear who each will appoint to the critical jobs and advisers that run this country.

Hockey and soccer? I thought Palin’s whole schtick was supposed to be how “in touch” she is with the average American. Maybe she’s confused and thought she was debating in Canada or Europe?

Biden Palin Debate
Who won, who lost? We must admit that Palin didn’t stumble but she comes across as insincere. Watching her, for me was like watching someone doing a toothpaste ad. I almost expected her to break out with a song and dance to the tune of “On the Good Ship Lollypop”. I cannot see how any American’s would look for someone to fill the position of the Vice-President because that person gives them the “warm fuzzies”. As for the touted “breath of fresh air”, we need a heavy duty vacumn cleaner to clean up the mess that American is in. Her fluff did not win me over.

David Brooks needs to look up the word “bemused.” A Freudian slip?

No Sarah won in my book. Biden put me to sleep everytime he opened his mouth.
I watched it at a friends house and the Obama supporters mouths were open. I think at least three of them are beginning to think about McCain again.
I find Obama to be the average slick talker that would say anything to get into office. My support for him was luke warm but as a democrat I shrugged my shoulders. Now I am definitely going McCain/Palin. I was worried about her but now I like her alot.

Barracuda:
I wonder how a Hillary supporter would actually choose McCain/Palin – considering EVERYTHING that Hillary stood for is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the McCain/Palin policy?!?! So go ahead and vote for McCain, but I am guessing this is another uneducated vote, since anyone with a two neurons to rub together would realize that it’s pretty ridiculous to claim to be a Hillary supporter then to vote McCain – two complete opposites. Anyway…Palin’s “confidence” last night was a Halloween mask. She was out of place and completely transparent. Brushing off the questions and answering with her “Alaska resume”, “maverick” comments and endless energy chatter was not what a debate is meant to be! “Like, duh”. I could have debated last night if debating meant standing up there “answering” questions with a response that is completely irrelevant to the question asked. What a joke.

I still saw the ill-informed and out of her depth, caught off-guard Governor Palin. She did not answer questions and repeated superficial, well rehearsed, talking points verbatim.
This country is in too much trouble for someone who has only “been at the job for five weeks”. She may be ok as a Governor of Alaska, but 25% of vice presidents have had to take over for the president, and she is not ready to lead our country.
To compete in this new global economy we need to rebuild our infostructure. We need to make vast improvements in education so our workers can move into more white color jobs, and create more blue color jobs that can’t be outsourced. We need a commander in chief with answers not a “Joe Six-Pack” hockey mom who attempts to flirt her way to the white house as she did last night.

Mr. Coffee you have said it all!! I am so impressed with how you summed up the facts concerning the crap that the GOP keeps pushing on the American people. Thank you for laying it out so beautifully. Most people who pull for McSame and Failin don’t even pay attention to the real issues or the truth. They seemed so impressed with Palin because she calls herself a hockey mom. Well a GOOD hockey mom would have had that poor little baby in the bed instead of parading him around on stage so late at night. I guess she is so middle class that she can’t afford a baby sitter.
Football mom

“…Biden put me to sleep everytime he opened his mouth….I watched it at a friends house and the Obama supporters mouths were open. I think at least three of them are beginning to think about McCain again.”
Two things, Barracuda – one, it’s great to know that being entertained is the most important thing for you in a candidate; it explains a lot about the current state of the nation.
Second, you are deluding yourself if anyone who had been an Obama suppoter was swayed by Palin’s amateurish performance.

We are Power and Controls little Honey Bees.
They are dying off. Why? Mico-Grnerators.
How do the Insects SEE? Ask Power and Controls Military officials, who develope Military Equipment.
Call your house rep. and Vote NO to collecting their Honey.(money)
Vote Independant.
We are Power and Controls little Honey Bees.
They are dying off. Why?
Call your house rep. and Vote NO to collecting their Honey.(money)
Vote Independant.
Republican only except Pork.
They will blame everyone, but Rick Davis.
Remember him. McCcains Advisor, who was STILL recieveing Middle Americans Money, until last Month.
McCains Top Advisor, who was helping to raise McCains Funds.
Say NO to the Bailout for Rick Davis.
Say NO to the Bailout for Rick Davis.
Vote NO for McCains Pork
Vote NO for Bailing out McCcains advisor , Rick Davis.

We are Power and Controls little Honey Bees.
They are dying off. Why? Mico-Grnerators.
How do the Insects SEE? Ask Power and Controls Military officials, who develope Military Equipment.
Call your house rep. and Vote NO to collecting their Honey.(money)
Vote Independant.
We are Power and Controls little Honey Bees.
They are dying off. Why?
Call your house rep. and Vote NO to collecting their Honey.(money)
Vote Independant.
Republican only except Pork.
They will blame everyone, but Rick Davis.
Remember him. McCcains Advisor, who was STILL recieveing Middle Americans Money, until last Month.
McCains Top Advisor, who was helping to raise McCains Funds.
Say NO to the Bailout for Rick Davis.
Say NO to the Bailout for Rick Davis.
Vote NO for McCains Pork
Vote NO for Bailing out McCcains advisor , Rick Davis.

Why isn’t anyone pointing out the fact that Palin has far more experience than Obama or even Clinton did coming out of Arkansas? The difference between those candidates and her right now is that they were working on a campaign for close to two years before, while up to two weeks ago, her focus was on being a great governer. I didn’t like the fact that she strayed from many of the issues, but I do give her credit for not making up false answers and trying to give people a false impression of knowledgability. Carl Rove pointed out 10 non-debatable factual mistakes with Biden’s remarks, and 6 more arguable points he raised. I give Palin high marks for credibility. I was watching over the web and felt Biden connected well with the viewers through that medium.

Palin certainly “did no harm” and salvaged herself from the brink of political annihilation. The bar was set so low for her, it did not take much for her to reach it. Palin greatly benefitted from the changed debate format (McCain camp insisted) and her ability to memorize well. Since no follow-up questions could be asked or comments challenged, she got a pass on questions she did not answer. The American people lost because Ifill could not ask follow-up questions that would require thought and depth beyond the memorized talking points.

Palin didnt actually answer direct questions.
The right wing pre-game attacks on the moderator worked to perfection. Time and again the moderator said, you didnt answer that one, we’ll have to get back to that one, but she never ever said, no… that was irrelevant, the question is not about that.
The CBS poll of previously undecided independents showed that each candidate won over some people.
Biden won over twice as many as Palin.
18% now say they have decided on Biden and Obama and 10% now say they have decided upon McCain and Palin. 18% of the then undecided independents is probably about 2% of the electorate.10% of them is about 1% of the electorate. So Biden may have picked up 1% to add to the lead. We shall see when the polls come out in the next few days, in the battleground states where the actual election has begun already.
And while Palin improved the perception that she is knowledgeable, from mid-30′s to mid-60′s, Biden improved the perceptive of himself as knowledgeable from the high 70′s to 98% of the independents. Biden won.

When rappers promote a lifestyle of violence and crime..we all say that is wrong..when Sarah Palin celebrates joe six pack..we cheer. Who is joe six pack? Is he the ignorant beer drinking belching high school drop out that we are working so hard to prevent our kids from being…who is the average joe..why is being average good…is that why you work two jobs to send your kids to school…..to be a average joe…schools work everyday to help your children to become more than average…dont celebrate joe six pack..then kill yourself to send your kids to college…

I thought Palin did excedingly well. She came across as comfortable and spoke well. She is exactly what the Republican party needs. She is a great salesman. The republican party is selling a inferior product and they need an attractive down to earth friendly salesman. Who wants to buy a product that destroys your liberties, destroys your countries values, standing, ideals, and financial stability? No-one. Thats why we need a great salesman like Reagan was. I think Palin has a future in the Republican party. I can’t wait for the day of realistic cyborgs that can appear sincere.

I was amazed to read in one posting that a former Hillary supporter was now firmly in the McCain/Palin camp. Please tell me one thing that Sarah Palin supports, when we actually hear her answer a question, that is the same as Hillary Clinton. High School debate students have a better grasp of the issues!

This is for Sarah Palin:
Please know that winking, being folksy and cutesy matters not to foreign leaders. Many foreign leaders have no respect for women, so your “style” is not important.
You were so scripted in the debates, it appeared you were just reading off cards, and not answering questions!
When Sarah is Sarah, you use so many words that afterwards you haven’t said anything!
Please go back to Wasilla, Alaska and take care of your family!

I like her on energy. I like both VP candidates FAR better than the executive candidates. If Biden or Clinton were running against McCain, they would have my vote. Neither Palin nor Biden scare me.
The bottom line is this: Palin, Biden, and McCain (the latter two YEARS ago) all have undergone INTENSE scrutiny, and survived it. I like that. Obama has had none, and any he HAS had (Rev Wright) he handled totally wrong and got a pass. I’d LOVE to vote for Biden, but not with Obama at the top of the ticket. He’s just dead wrong on too many issues. I’m a registered independent if it matters.

Who won the debate? Easy, Biden did. Palin didn’t even take part in the debate really, except where the questions happened to match what she’d prepared to say.
If we ignore the fact it was supposed to be a debate and instead answer the question, “who looked more ready to be one heartbeat away from being President”, well, I’d still say Biden.
I find it hard to see how anyone could objectively say Palin won on either of those criteria.

1. She didn’t answer half of the questions. It’s a debate. The main point is that you are supposed to answer the questions. She didn’t. Why are we changing the fundamental rules of debating for her? A debate is like a job interview. If you don’t answer the questions, you don’t deserve the job. If you don’t answer the questions, you shouldn’t be declared the winner.
2. Sarah Palin does not speak grammatically correct English, EVER. Why won’t a single reporter call her on her atrocious grammar, which she displayed throughout the debate? (A black candidate with such horrid grammar would not have a career.) Folksy phrases do not make up for incoherent sentences that are clearly constructed from 5 different talking points that have been lumped together, linked only by the word “also”. Only Tina Fey has addressed this effectively.
3. Palin constantly relied on her notes. She couldn’t answer a single question without referring to them. She had cheat sheets. Biden didn’t because he didn’t NEED them..
4. Palin was cute. Biden was presidential. Biden won.

Biden sounded ok while his mouth was moving, but when you got a chance to think about what the words meant, you noticed he was mostly making stuff up as he went along. That Lebanon “history” was a riot. But it won’t really matter because no one ever follows up with him, while there are probably teams of journalists poring over Palin’s every syllable in search of a gaffe. So, over the next few day, every sound bite will be about her “mistakes” and people will finally come to believe that she just can’t cut it.
Biden will win, but only with the aid of the press.

McCain’s choice of Palin was reckless. Can you imagine what a substantive debate it would have been if it had been Biden vs. Condi Rice; Biden vs. Kay Bailey Hutchinson; Biden vs. Marjorie Snow?
Unemployment was at a 7 year high and grew again today; housing market worse it’s been since the depression; people across America losing their businesses; two wars going on, climate crisis Palin does not believe is man-made and Palin is winking and being folksy with her answers. May-be if times were better, her folksiness would be better received, but these issues are not going to get solved with winks and memorized platforms.
It’s shameful in the worst economic and turbulent foreign policy times of our lives that “surviving” a VP debate is considered adequate.

kids in america today are confused…the are taught in school to be all that they can be..encouraged to reach for the stars…to be educated…then adults in America tell them..higher education doesnt really matter, you dont have to answer the questions well..just show us your character, your values..”joe six pack” is good, college educated is bad…kids dont get it…vote for higher expectations for our politicians otherwise your kids will get the message loud and clear…

Now we know what went on at those debate training sessions at McCain’s ranch.
Wink, Sarah, wink. Pander to the people. Mention soccer moms and hockey moms at every opportunity. Look lovingly into the camera and say “Todd and I have been middle class all our lives.” Wink again. Say “You betcha!” Put in a few doggone its. No, don’t blow a kiss, that’s over the top. Wink, Sarah, wink.
Sad thing is, it worked. 86% of Fox viewers said Palin won the debate.

Hey Mr. Coffee.
Saying Obama is a brilliant community organizer is like saying saying Hitler was masterful at efficiency. You have to finish both sentences.
sentence 1: Obama was a brilliant community organizer in ACORN, an organization which is constantly in court for voter fraud and continually extorts people.
sentence 2: Hitler was masterful at creating mass murdering means to dispose of innocent people.
Things change when you tell the WHOLE truth. I intensely dislike McCain, and would vote for Biden, Clinton, Romney, Richardson, or Huckabee in a heartbeat over him, but not with Obama waiting in the wings.
Obama would implode if the press spent 1/5 the amount of time on him that they spent on McCain in the early 80′s, Biden in the late 80′s, or Palin in the last 5 weeks.
I think Obama would be fine as a VP, where he would be able to learn on the job, but as a president? No way. Too ignorant in Foreign Affairs.

Yes Rudy, too bad that Obama’s handlers did not get enough time with him because of the bailout situation. Obama did not get to study as much as he needed.
Obama was also scripted during his debate. But I see that most of his supporters dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to pointing fingers. I feel that she did a great job.

Yes, she was horrible and didn’t answer any questions. But the real question here is what kind of English language is she speaking? Alaskan? Idaho-askan? Any word ending in “ing” now ends with an “n”, in Sarah Palin’s world. Any word ending in “o” now ends with an “a”. Let’s try it… “debating” is now “debatin’”, “campaigning” is “campaignin’”. “Have to” has turned into “gotta”, “Bet” has turned into “betcha”. A wink. A smile. A flip of the hair. And wind blowing straight through her ears.

What They’re Saying About Governor Sarah Palin on Wash U. Debate: Volume 2
“She Killed. It Was Her Evening. … 15 Minutes In, She Had Joe Biden On The Defensive On The Subject Of Obama And Taxes. … She Killed”
The Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan: “She killed. It was her evening. She was the star. She had him at, ‘Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?’ It was very interesting to me, for Palin tonight, for an hour and a half, I think America saw her for a really long time, and she became a star probably on a new level. Gwen Ifill was not there for Sarah Palin. Joe Biden was not there for Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin was there with a camera. It was classic go over the heads of the media and everybody else, talk straight to the American people. She hit every populist chord. It is amazing to me that 15 minutes in, she had Joe Biden on the defensive on the subject of Obama and taxes. … She killed.” (NBC’s “Vice Presidential Debate Coverage,” 10/2/08)
NBC’s Tom Brokaw: “I think they’re whopping it up in Alaska tonight and all those parties across the country for the McCain campaign because I thought in terms of theatrics and personal style out there, you can see why she’s such a successful politician in Alaska. … And any question asked of her, she talked about John McCain’s tax cuts, his record as a maverick, about his determination to reform what is going on and about energy independence. She had been called, as you know, the bumper sticker is coldest state, hottest governor. You saw some of that tonight.” (NBC’s “Vice Presidential Debate Coverage,” 10/2/08)
“I Wanted My Granddaughters To Be Able To Look At This Debate … I Wanted Them To Look At This Debate And See That A Woman Could Go Toe To Toe With Someone Who Has Had Tremendous Experience”
1984 Democrat Vice Presidential Nominee Geraldine Ferraro: “I really wanted her to get up there and do a good job, and I think she did. … I think it was a good evening for — certainly for Governor Palin. … I think she showed she is certainly capable of going toe to toe with a man who is more than qualified to be vice president, if not president of the United States.” (NBC’s “Vice Presidential Debate Coverage,” 10/2/08)
Ferraro: “The thing about it is she held her own, and that for me, from a historic viewpoint, I wanted my granddaughters to be able to look at this debate — I hope they’re in bed right now. I wanted them to look at this debate and see that a woman could go toe to toe with someone who has had tremendous experience in the Senate and someone who is an incredible candidate for vice president of the United States. That to me is very very important.” (NBC’s “Vice Presidential Debate Coverage,” 10/2/08)
MSNBC’s Chris Matthews: “I think she’s an extremely appealing politician. Her energy level was much better than Biden’s. I think Biden lost a little speed there during the evening. I think she came across terrific in terms of presentation.” (MSNBC’s “Vice Presidential Debate,” 10/2/08)
ABC’s Diane Sawyer: “On the first go, you’re right, I thought that Governor Palin, after a bruising time in the media, showed up not just with confidence, but cheerful confidence that might surprise a lot of people, talking about her personal issues …” (ABC’s “Vice Presidential Debate,” 10/2/08)
“Sarah Palin Was Sensational Tonight … I Think She Wiped Up The Floor With Joe Biden”
The Associated Press’ Jim Kuhnhenn: “Under intense scrutiny, Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin stood her ground Thursday night against a vastly more experienced Joe Biden, debating the economy, energy and global warming, then challenging him on Iraq, ‘especially with your son in the National Guard.’” (Jim Kuhnhenn, “Palin Stands Her Ground In VP Debate With Biden,” The Associated Press, 10/2/08)
Kuhnhenn: “The Alaska governor also noted that Biden had once said Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama wasn’t ready to be commander in chief, ‘and I know again that you opposed the move that he made to try to cut off funding for the troops and I respect you for that.’” (Jim Kuhnhenn, “Palin Stands Her Ground In VP Debate With Biden,” The Associated Press, 10/2/08)
CNN’s David Gergen: “She was spirited, she came out well, she came out strong.” (CNN’s “Debate Coverage,” 10/2/08)
MSNBC’s Pat Buchanan: “My take is Sarah Palin was sensational tonight. She not only met the expectations, I think she wiped up the floor with Joe Biden, quite frankly. She is personable, she is young, she’s got a sense of humor…I think that she has done a sensational job and I think she as recaptured that magic she had out there at the convention.” (MSNBC’s “Countdown With Keith Olbermann,” 10/2/08)
The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder: “She was most effective when she argued against Barack Obama …” (Marc Ambinder, “Palin-Biden: First Take,” The Atlantic’s “Marc Ambinder” Blog, marcambinder.theatlantic, 10/2/08)
The New York Times’ Bill Kristol: “It was match point against Sarah Palin and she won the set and she kept the race alive.” (Bill Kristol, Fox, On The Record, 10/2/08)
National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru: “Biden had a good start, but Palin was exceptionally strong.” (Ramesh Ponnuru, “The Opening,” National Review’s “The Corner” Blog, corner.nationalreview, 10/2/08)
The New York Times’ Peter Baker: “If the debate was the defining test this fall of Sarah Palin, she emerged from it largely unscathed.” (Peter Baker, “Live Blog: St. Louis Showdown,” The New York Times’ “The Caucus” Blog, , 10/2/08)
Baker: “[S]he came across as a forceful, articulate and well-prepared candidate, able to go toe to toe with an opponent who has been debating on the floor of the United States Senate for the past 36 years. She may not have had any breakthrough moments but she never stumbled in response to any “gotcha” questions and Joe Biden largely focused his attacks on John McCain, not her.” (Peter Baker, “Live Blog: St. Louis Showdown,” The New York Times’ “The Caucus” Blog, thecaucus.blogs.nytimes, 10/2/08)

Those that think the “more educated” people in this country should rule, I say this. Are not the ills of this country the result of these so called educated MBA’s and Lawyers who think they have all the answers. It’s the average american that fights for this country, works to build this country and loves this country. The so called educated people have sold the Real Americans out. Education doesn’t have anything to do with intelligence or wisdom. It’s merely a measure of how many years someone went to school. Reading books and self education can yeild the same results. I have ran across many educated idoits … many of them got us into the mess we have now. It was interesting that Bidens final words ask “the Average American” to pitch in and get America going again. That always happens when these educated fools get us in a mess … Americans we need your help … Please help us. Then when we do, they turn their back and fleece us until they need our help again. Go ahead, put your faith in educated fools , I’ll stick with real Americans.

People want to talk about the Couric questions. Well grade schoolers can tell you we did not have TV in 1929 and some could even tell you who was President, but none of them can name a supreme court case, I am a Democrat usually but all these gaffes by Pallin and McCain are the only ones anybody talks about. Obama and Biden have made even more stupid ones but get a pass over and over. Obama has way to many bad connections and that is what we should be talking about, there is a reason both Clinton and Bidden said he was not ready to lead.

I thought Palin was brilliant esp. in the second half as she hit her stride. The media elite that hates her can run on and on with “she didn’t talk about substance” if they want to…but at their own peril. Gore spoke substance in 2000. How did that work out? Palin did what politicans in a TV/Tech age have to do: connect with people. Biden went from serious, to angry to misty eyed. It was a little all over the map. She was confident and even througout even if she doesn’t have the years in the Senate. She did a nice job letting people know that she has executive experience. Remember that over and over Americans like to vote for Governors because of their executive experience and their “outsider” status. She has both …and charisma. Palin won even if the MSM wants to spin it otherwise.

I find this funny Palin won the debate just on honesty alone, Biden was caught in at least 6 straight out lies about what McCain voted for and what Obama voted for.
People vote on likability and trustworthiness and the Obama ticket has neither!!
Paige – stop the lies, first there was no change, and if there was it does not help the candidate not to get a followup, secondly she did not have a script that was a note pad the same as biden for them to jot down points.
I love it when a lib loses a debate as did Kerry you libs come up with lies like Pres. Bush had a microphone on him!
jim – did not Obama pull out of Georgia, Please polls from the media mean nothing
By the way Biden conceded defeat, at the end his comment about taking a hit was declaring that.

Barracuda – “I’m counting on their downright stupidity to win Senator McCain and Governor Palin this election.”
LOL! You’re so right! Sheer stupidity is the only hope that McCain has for a victory. Way to make a point for the other side.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday again shows Barack Obama attracting 51% of the vote while John McCain earns 44%. For each of the past eight days, Obama has been at 50% or 51% and McCain has been at 44% or 45%. New polling shows Obama pulling away in New Hampshire and opening a growing lead in the Electoral College projections.

Even her cheerleaders on the right are saying Palin did well on appearance, but not in reality.

Palin was just like Bush.
I cringed when she talked about Joe Sixpack. Remember, Bush is the candidate we could have a beer with. I’ll have a beer with Palin, but I need a president who understands the crisis.
She had lots of lines but didn’t have a grasp on details. Anything she didn’t know, she talked about being a Maverick and her energy expertise.
Maybe Palin, the energy expert, should read the newspaper. She didn’t know Congress allowed the offshore drilling ban to expire in September.

Has Palin convinced the Electorate that she’s ready to be President?
Not a chance.
This isn’t a Beauty Pagent, no matter how much McCain supporters want it to be.

For once can we have someone in the White House who can pronounce the word “nuclear”?
I mean, did Sarah “Yep” Palin go to the George W. Bush school of Nuke-You-Ler ignorance?
Seriously, I know parrots that can pronounce the word.

Now I understand why some think there is a liberal bias in the media. All this analysis in the wake of an interesting debate, where both Candidates presented well, is largely responsible.
Neither candidate provided useful facts, only Biden seemed to feel that his entire gameplan should focus on the lack of solutions from the McCain campaign, rather than addressing the pausity of solutions his ticket offers.
We’re so tired of hearing about change, or that Obama will make things better, Obama will bring jobs to communities, all platitudes that the Obama has used, with little details as to how he’ll accomplish any of this. Throwing tax dollars at the problems, particularly after this bailout, is not a solution that America’s Citizens will accept anymore. Gigantice federally funded “make work” programs like the Roosevelt administration will never work. The fact is (to use the same “Biden” saw that he wore out last night) that most of Obama’s “solutions” comtemplated using federal tax dollars (essentially “buying votes”) to keep his promises. This is supported by Senator Obama’s recent “stipulation” that our current economic problems might limit his ability to produce on his promises.
Both party’s need to realize that America’s Citizens have little trust in government, and presentations like last night only serve the purposes of an increasingly shrill cadre of media analysts and talking heads.
We realize that governments sole ability to act on domestic issues is through “creative” use of our tax dollars. We also see where thats leading us!
Neither Candidate, neither campaign has explained how $700 Billion in tax dollars (+ a few hundred billion, give or take) will address the “tight credit market”. Sure it will free up capital for the same people who got us in this mess, but how does that help anyone but the fat cats?
We’re not idiots out here in fly over country. The majority of Employers do not borrow money to “hire new workers”, buy inventory, or make payrolls, thats a ridiculous ruse. Company’s that need to borrow money frequently to make payroll or to maintain an inventory already have a questionable business model, so any beneficial effect of the bailout will be to prolong the inevitable for such businesses.
Basic rules of business still apply, hire employee’s when product demand and cash flow warrant, purchase inventory when demand and cash flow allows.
In any properly managed company, the need for new workers is motivated by business trends, unlike inventory, employers shouldn’t stockpile workers. Inventory is an even easier concept, if you sell something at a profit, replace it in your inventory. Costs for an initial (startup) inventory isn’t the same as maintaining an inventory. Nobody sells their inventory, spends the profits, and then counts on borrowing money to buy more inventory, or at least they shouldn’t!
Further, I doubt the bailout will loosen credit to the “businesses” and “average Citizens” that both party’s assert. Banks got into the trouble they are in by being “too loose” in their lending. Buying up their foolish debt will not be an incentive for banks to continue to be “loose in lending” (isn’t that what we’re hoping this bailout will institutionalize?), indeed, there are ostensibly prohibitions and scrutiny in this bailout (it’s now rumored to be several hundred pages larger than the one that failed last week) that would prevent banks from making imprudent loans going forward.
Like it or not, well managed banks continue to loan money to credit worthy companies and individuals for appropriate rates, but they have increased their due diligence in making these loans. Credit is tight because banks squendered their resources on pie-in-the-sky investment schemes, long-shot loans, and lost focus on their mission to act as stewards of the funds customers entrusted to their care. If anything, credit will constrict even more if the government bails these morons out. The moderator failed to ask, and the candidates failed to address the questions that would allow voters to feel we’ve been informed, instead we find our selves angry that we’ll never recover the time we wasted watching this debate!

No doubt about it, Sarah Palin proved last night that she is more than capable of representing the citizens of the United States as our Vice President.
She was not only confident and in command of her facts, she removed the shadow of doubt about her abilities that Charlie Gibson, Katie Couric, Tina Fey and Andrea Mitchell, et. al., worked so hard to place over her candidacy — and she did it with extraordinary grace.
Say it ain’t so, Joe!

Rick Davis made like 3 mill over several years, seems like alot but now look at Raines 90 mill, Howard 20 mill and Jim Johnson 28 mill. All Democrats with a ties to Obama, look it up. Obama trained accorn people how to get mortgages for low income people, that has helped.

It took Obama lots of debates to reach is current proficiency level, which is still not impressive. i felt that McCain won, of course the media said differently. They have proven to be a wash in terms of objectivity.
Obama was terrible in the early debates. This was Palin’s first try, and she is already Obama’s equal if not superior.

If one tries to cast it in the terms a talking head journalist understand, diction, erudition, breath control, pacing, sophistication, Palin lost. That was Rachel Maddow’s take.
If you cast it in the terms the average American understands, courage of convictions, honesty, forthrightness, direct approach to the problems, Palin won. That was Greta Van Sestern’s take.
If you cast it in terms of who understands what a working mother wants to hear regarding taking the fight to the corruption in DC and New York, Palin won. That was the take of the women at the coffee pot this morning.
For the person who had the most distance to cover, Palin clearly won.
Will all that sum up as leadership? That is to be determined.
The disappointment was the utter predictability of each network’s reaction. The candidate they are in the tank for, they still are.
But here’s the kicker: sophistication is telling people losing their homes they are the reason for the credit crunch because they bought what they could not afford while the sophisticate telling them that is eating fish eggs at $330 an ounce. Gore and Kerry didn’t get that.
The fat guy down front with five kids and a job teetering on layoff and the single mom raising a family doesn’t either.
This election is a class war.

Palin did great.
McCain has made huge (possibly fatal) mistake of not turning her loose sooner.
She needs to be in ads, she needs to be every where pushing the idea that McCain/Palin will be fighting for the little guy on Main Street, USA.

While she certainly did not foul up as badly as she did during the Couric interview, I still felt that while she may have shown herself to be a competent governor, she did not show me that she could be Vice-President- or if the situation called for it-President of the United States of America.
I noticed that she often avoided going into detail about foreign policy, while Biden easily fielded the question about the Gaza Strip, and was able to disseminate the situation and the roles of the key players, such as the Hezbollah and Hamas. She did not really trip up, but there were questions she did not answer, and kept on going back to energy.
She was also not able to return Biden’s attacks about McCain’s lies about Obama’s tax cuts and how Biden pointed out that 95% of small businesses earned less then $250 000 per year, and it puzzled me that she kept on repeating it although it’d already been debunked by Biden.
Overall, her conduct on stage was better than her running-mate who came across as being downright RUDE last week- I almost wonder how she can stand to be with grumpy McCain. Her foreign policy stands were essentially the same as McCain’s which are completely more Bush then Bush- they are following Bush’s first term policies that even said President has admitted were pretty much retarded.
Over all, she managed to go through the debate without tripping majorly, but I don’t think she passed the Commander-in-Chief test- especially critical on her ticket because of McCain’s age. She can be a governor, but I cannot see her as a VPOTUS or, forbid, the POTUS.

It would seem that the major point of concern for most of the Obama supporters is how Sarah Palin pronounces words.
In other words, her regional dialect differs from their own, so the Obama/Biden crowd chooses a stance of speech discrimination.
With that position, a Midwestern slang, a Southern drawl, or a Boston twang are all reasons to question the ability of a political candidate for Obama supporters.
The fact is, as a huge majority of news agencies are reporting today, Sarah Palin did extremely well in last night’s debate and bested the performance of a United States Senator with 36 years experience, Joe Biden.

Scratch Palin, find Cheney.

I wonder if Palin will use our nuke-yoo-ler arsenal to hunt endangered wolves up dere in Alaska hey?

Her very presence at the debate is an insult to the electorate.

If dodging questions and rumpling nonsense are qualification for the VP of the USA, then may God bless us All. This is the kind of stupidity that being sold to the American people for the last 8 years. Based her debate performance, she may not even win a high school debate because she did not understand either foreign and economy issues facing the nation today. Winking may win a beauty bikini contest but not qualified to be the Vice President, let alone the President of the United States.

does anyone think perhaps Palin laid the “doggone it’s” and the winks and things on just a LITLLE bit too thick? It’s almost like she went over the top with it.. some is beleiveable – that much is acting.

Barracuda, my comment was a joke, in case you didn’t figure that out. Though from reading your past posts I see you are a person who feels that Hillary’s ideals are equal with McCain/Palin – and that’s not a joke, that’s just scary. Palin cannot answer debate questions because her index cards lacked those answers – so she reverted back to “energy” and her idiotic “maverick” comments. It was a pathetic attempt at a debate on her part. You can’t debate if you ignore the questions. When the Republicans programmed her microchip with their pre-selected answers they forgot to tell her she may have to “think” on her own to respond.

My judgement was based on a simple assessment – could I see either of these as POTUS. Biden yes. Palin no.
Based on her performance, I might vote for her if she were running for congress. But not VP. She’s not close to crossing that bar.
Palin was better than expected – likely because they’re weren’t any follow-up questions which seems to be where she has had trouble. I don’t think people on the fence were convinced that she’s ready to step in as POTUS if the need arises – as it very well might, even if temporarily, should McCain require surgery or something similar.

The very sad fact is that Palin supporters thought she was great when she said “I can see Russia from my house” and they think shes great now. To them Palin has no flaws after all shes super hockey mom from Alaska.
Must be a relief to be so indoctrinated and out of touch from reality. No troubles at all, hockey mom will save you…

“One thing to watch for:
Prominent conservatives essentially conceding that the race is over.
This morning, none other than Charles Krauthammer waves the white flag conceding that Obama should win”
Mission Accomplished

Biden and Obama have fought for women’s rights more then McCain or Palin ever have. Biden wrote, drafted, and got the Violence Against Women Act signed into law. Obama voted for the Equal Pay Act, McCain voted against it. Just see the way the candidates treat their wives. Jill and Michelle clearly are married to very devoted and warm husbands. McCain and Cindy sometimes seem a tad…cold. I’m not saying McCain is like a misogynist, but he comes across as rather stiff.
Palin said Roe v Wade should be overturned. I think she has to recognize that while she may be pro-life, is it really in the best interests to leave all women without a choice and send them back to the days where they snuck to backrooms for illegal abortions or worse, tried to do one themself with virtually no one to ensure their safety.

Sarah Palin looked and sounded like she was running for high school junior class president. “I will get a soda machine in the lunch room!” “I will make every Friday wacky shirt day!”. GO MAVERICKS!!!!

Biden did well in the debate, but then he has numerous presidential debates under his belt during his several runs and his 35 years in Washington.
Palin also did very well and is all the more impressive when you realize that this is her first vice-presidential level debate ever and she only had a few gubernatorial debates under her belt as experience.
Given that, Palin won hands down.
But the interesting thing this debate points out is this: I kept thinking I’d like to see Palin debate Obama. If she could hold her own with “35-year Joe”, she’d clean the clock of “143 days and ready to run for Prez”.

Grey matter’s comments were clearly along the Biden debate agenda. Try to degrade Sarah Palin, but do so without attacking and show a sense of grace when possible.
While that may have worked to gloss over the real Joe Biden for some, those who have witnessed his failed Presidential campaigns and vitriole in the Senate have not forgotten the real Joe Biden, gaffes and all.
As for the experience issue, the Obama/Biden campaign is supposedly based on change. With Joe Biden, Washington status quo is the norm.
One must wonder if “teleprompter” is currently slated as a Cabinet position in an Obama administration.

I’m not Joe six pack. My children are not Joe six pack. My friends are not Joe six pack. I don’t want a nation of Joe six packs and certainly don’t want a Josephine six pack as the United States Vice President.

barracuda, your right wing is showing. No one is fooled by your lame attempt to convince that you ever leaned Obama. By using stock talking points you give yourself away. There might be some respect for your opinions if you were honest about your affiliations. Otherwise, a waste of time.

( I meant in my last line that Palin seemed less confrontational and argue for the sake of arguing in comparison to McCain).

It was fun to watch strictly for the entertainment value but historically the VP debate has zero effect up or down on the presidential race. In fact, the last real zinger in a VP debate was Lloyd Benson’s, “You’re no JFK.” Refresh my memory, how long did VP Benson serve?
McCain’s only option now is to go nuclear (which he will) but it will be too little, too late. The uglier he gets the more Obama voters will get angry and motivated.
Prepare for “economic justice” coming to your neighborhood on 1/21/2009. I wonder how many posters on this blog will happily report back when they suddenly discover they are “rich” and need to do their “patriotic duty” by paying their “fair share” in taxes. And that’s only the tip of the iceburg.

It´s funny to see that Joe Who says now he supports Obama´s policy when during the primaries he stated Mr. America community organizer was unqualified for president.
Joe Who has really changed!! Who must we believe? the one in the primaries or the one right now?

Palin Wins,
I really don’t understand your logic. Isn’t McCain a Washington insider too? What gets to me is that Biden has supported more commonsense policies and opposed the disastrous ones of Bush that McCain has gone along with.
McCain hasn’t seemed to give a pause to think about the genocide in Darfur. Obama and Biden have.
Vitriol? Biden’s “vitriol” involves slamming the Bush Iraq policies in very very harsh language. McCain’s vitriol includes completely blowing his top and throwing several choice four-letter words at fellow Senators.

Grey Matter I never said anything to you that was uncivil.

“Sarah Palin Was Sensational Tonight … I Think She Wiped Up The Floor With Joe Biden”
Joe you are so emotional baby!
Biden cried….Governor Palin did not.

jj:
Is it your position that a candidate for the second most powerful elected office in our democracy, and arguably the world, shouldn’t pander to “the people”? What part of “we, the people” is it you seem to not understand? Obviously partisanship colors your perception of last nights debate. Sadly, such partisanship is what prevents us from having a true choice in our own governane. It would be a refreshing change to elect a candidate who “panders to the people”, rather than self serving partisan interests!

barracuda, good luck then with women’s issues. If you support the John Bush ticket, you can kiss them goodbye. More right wing appointments to the Supreme Court will tip the tenuous balance to the right. If you truly supported Clinton it makes no sense to support a candidate who is a polar opposite to everything she stands for.

Grey Matter: Obama did not know about politics when he won the senate seat. He learned from other senators but did was lacking the qualified experiece. And he does not know foreign policy. He had to have advisors for three days in Florida training him for the debate. McCain doesn’t need advisors he can go right into the debate. Govenors are not expected to know foreign policy because most governors are not running for the presidency. Obama doesn’t even know what to say on the platform unless he pulls out one of RFK speeches to study and adds a few words of his own. Where do you think he got the words hope and change from. Bill Clinton also used the word change in his speech. Obama cannot do anything without copying it first.

I was surprised the Palin didn’t bring a knitting project to the debate with all the folkism. I want a worldly VP not one whose can wrinkle her nose every time she says “The Maverick and I… We gonna shake up Washington” I remember Bush angled for the same image remarking about the “Fuzzy Math in Washington” and now look where we are.

John: your are right about the newspapers. However, no matter how good Palin did, the Washington Post and New York Times are pro-obama and will not give credit where its due. I understand the uncommitted voters said Palin was the winner. For a candidate that was only in the political several years I think she did very well.

Yes Alan,
Let’s talk about the “strict interpretation of the constitution” with regards to Gov. Palin’s idea of the job of the Vice President. She thinks the VP should have more power, even though the Constitution clearly spells out the job of the VP. Is it just me, or are she and Cheney only claiming “strict interpretation of the constitution” when it suites them?
Yes, there are fundamental differences between platforms of the two parties. There are also fundamental differences in attitudes. McCain and Palin keep trying to put fear in the hearts of the people (how many times did she use the word “fear” last night?), and try to divide this country with their rhetoric. Whereas, Obama, at the convention in particular, sounds like some one willing to find the common ground and work with that to move forward. Biden is a reasonable person, too–and knowledgeable! We need these intelligent team players to move this country forward.

Mariann Pepitone,
Why do you say that? Obama is on the Foreign Relations Committee. No one can cram all that foreign policy thing into their head in just three days without at least having a basic understanding and knowledge of foreign policy without having trouble remembering and answering the questions that came out. Obama could answer clearly the specifics.
Obama had been actively involved in raising awareness about the Sudanese genocide in Darfur way before he ran for President. He’s been interested and studied international law in university.
Yes, Govs aren’t EXPECTED to know, but she IS running for VPOTUS. She needs to have some sort of basis. I mean, she almost appeared not to have read the newspapers at all (e.g saying Russia attacked Ossetia unprovoked when it’s eccepted that Georgia provoked hostilities), or saying that America is considered a “beacon for democracy and hope”.
I mean, yes, that used to be it but right now our standing has fallen and plenty are ###### with the cowboy-style “Shoot First “n” Talk Later” Diplomacy. Nations around the world would rather we did not throw our military weight around so often because of all the collateral damage and human cost and instead use forceful diplomacy.

From the debate, here is Palin’s stance on gay issues in a nutshell.
Hospital visits and contracts between gays: You betcha!
Benefits for gay couples beyond Alaska: Mmmm, probably not, because a step like that sometimes leads “toward redefining the traditional definition of marriage.”
Gay marriage: No way, Jose!

Palin ably read her talking points and kept the gaffes to a relative minimum (I thought she struggled on her global warming answer and she screwed up her Afghanistan answer).
Biden showed the depth of knowledge befitting his years of experience.
The format kept him from having too long winded answers.
In the end, I agree with Woody. Barring a huge gaffe, VP debates are likely to have little effect on the race.

Yes, I won’t retract my statement. Obama supporters are hypocrites. You are a hypocrite when you criticize someone for the same things that your candidates does. Obama is flying home to Chicago to study for Tuesday. He will show up and sound like stump speeches at the debate.

Har har har, the spin machine is in full force today. Palin didn’t complete a single cogent thought, punted every question, and was smartly out-folksied and out-familied by Biden. He was gracious, thoughtful, and forceful. She spent WAY too much time referring to her own record and the “McCain-Palin” administration while Biden spoke of Obama as HIS BOSS. The folksy comment about his “wife’s reward in heaven” was either intentionally classes or totally dimwitted and if I see that 8-year-old carrying her infant brother around on stairs late at night again I’m contacting the authorities. Biden did an EXCEPTIONAL job. The crying? Talking directly to the camera? His “let me be clear” comments? Please. Yeah, she won because she didn’t fall over or say “the Iraq.” She did, however, say “Talabani” although she was CLEARLY impressed with herself because she could pronounce Ahmadinejad more than once. Golf claps. 31 days, neocons, you’ve got 31 days…

This is what I don’t like about the McCain/Palin campaign.
Hypocrisy. First riding to Washington to “Save” the bailout and insists on cancelling the debate when in truth:
1) McCain is not on any of the relevant committees, there wouldn’t be much he could do.
2) He risked complicating things by injecting presidential politics into it.
In the end, bail-out promptly exploded when he ran into the White House. (Obama was CALLED there Bush, he couldn’t really say no)
3) Then turning around and accusing Obama of political grandstanding the bail out.
Erm?

Anyone that thinks Palin is anything more then the GOP’s latest attempt at manipulation needs to have their IQ checked. Palin has no experience, has no grasp of the points she spouts off. She refused to answer questions…The fact that she is even up on stage with Biden just shows the ridiculousness and desperateness of the GOP to try and win votes. Seriously, if you are falling for this ploy then you need to either have your head examined, or you need to start taking some confidence pills so that you might start to have an idea or two of your own.

grey matter: What has reading newspapers got to do with the electtion. I rarely buy and read any newspapers. I read the red eye and that’s gives me all the reading I want and I don’t read it everyday. Reading newspapers doesn’t make you win the election. I get my information from CNN, ABC, MSNBC, FOX and WGN. That’s all anyone needs. And I don’t care if Obama is on the Foreign Relations Committee he still needed training for the debate. Hasn’t he missed the senate about 143 days. Where was he. Didn’t he vote present numerous times per Hillary’s statement when she was campaigning. Obama may have graduated from Harvard but he made unbelieveable mistakes. He chose the wrong people to associate with and the wrong church. He should have known better for an educated college graduate. I read his BIO from the NYT. There is a lot to know about Obama and his background which is not that good.

The only real job that McCain has is senator. You think he would stand up there and speak on the biggest bill affecting future of our economy “without so-called media filter”
McCain – YOU’RE FIRED!!

watching said “Palin looked and sounded like a wind up doll. She did exactly what her very hard earned journalism degree taught her.”
If she was a wind up doll then she must have been manufactured by the same toy company that made Barack Obama and the little Obamabot weeble wobbles that come with him. Bobbing their heads to everything. The toy company that makes him BARNEY FISCHER PRICE.
I will gladly unwrap my Palin doll. Pull the cord and you get straight talk. Pull Obama’s cord and you get a stinking corpse.

Biden, hands down. Palin’s winks, nose wrinkling, cheery smile just does not a leader make. That takes knowledge–not learned talking points.

Mariann Pepitone,
I didn’t specifically mean the papers. I was using it as an EXPRESSION. I mean come on, CNN or what not is basically the papers- online. What I’m trying to say is Palin didn’t seem to even be aware of world affairs- I mean even at the very least the basic stuff most people learn from reading the papers (online or actual).
I mean, I’m sure there’re plenty of people who may not read the world affairs portion of the papers, but as a politician- esp being Governor of a state sharing a border with Russia and Canada, I’d expect her to at least have done that- and thus she would have known that Georgia started the Ossetian conflict. She still thinks America is a beacon for democracy and the people who hate America are just, well un-American.
Come on. People hate America because they think America is a hypocrite, preaching about freedom and human rights, yet torturing Iraqis in the Abu Ghraib prison (I know it’s because of some errant soldiers, but that does not help their perceptions), occupying a country and making a giant mess out of the whole place, for example.

whoa people some of you need to stop and get a grip no chek that get a firm grip on reality because there seem to be a disconnect as to what transpired last nite at the much anticipated{which it was}debate{which it wasn’t}on the one hand you hand a moderator cuckold by the white wing conmen with allegations of obama bias just days before the event leaving here unwilling unable or afraid to rein in mrs butterworth when ever see went off topic or refused to answer the question and then there was biden who had been warned to play nice and not to be seen as being to hard on his opponent so as not to alienate the female voters{the same opponent who called hillary,a whiner and that one of her two male opponents up in alaska would make a great bookkeeper and the other one a cook in her administration,and to his credit sen biden tiptoed thru this potential..{he beatup on a woman the sexist pig/he was being condescending the sexist pig]..minefield with both tact and decorum…while mrs joe six pack butterworth came across as sexist,condescending&contemptuous of not just her opponent,but also the moderator,the american people and the debate which brings me back full circle to those suffering from what transpired last nite reality disconnect like some of you i to have suffered the side affects of morning after hangovers and the that wasn’t me denials in the face of overwheiming facts that it was like some of you i’ve awaken from morning after romances{all the girls start to look prettier round closing} that hurt your freaking eyes and try as you might you cannt blame this one on alcohol drugs or voodoo,&like some of you i’ve received that call the morning after where after being informed the test was negative had to deny that i was overjoyed while areosmiths sweet emotion was playing in my head but unlike you there is noway i would call that a debate mrs butterworth monologue made sure of that and also unlike some of you i wish that someone had put a logo right over her mouth whenever she didnt answer the question

It didn’t seem to me like Palin did much in the way of helping out her respective ticket. Honestly, I thought Biden won, resoundingly, and I was convinced that, after 10 minutes of the debate, the election was over. I definitely believe Obama will win, and he surely has my vote.

Jeanie, “where do you get your news?”
Maybe Sarah should have read these blogs; sure are lots of folks that seem to know everything. Or, maybe she did since so many think she is stupid.

Deregulator,
No, you’re not the only one.
The deregulation that McCain pushed for is a big part of how we got to this mess in the economy. We don’t need a Teddy Roosevelt, we need an FDR. There was a reason for all that “New Deal” legislation after the stock crash in the early 1900′s. The Republicans have been chipping away at it for a long time, and the “fruits of their labors” are showing.

“Anyone that thinks Palin is anything more then the GOP’s latest attempt at manipulation needs to have their IQ checked.”
Apply the same logic to Obama. Do you think Obama would be the nominee if he wasn’t black? I don’t think so.
He is the most liberal senator who votes completely down the party line, he has had many dubious ties in the past and he has little experience. Yet he gets away with all these “bipartisan” and other claims that have no basis in reality. And the media gets away with it. Honestly ask yourself if Obama was white if he would be the nominee.
It’s sad when politics has come down to demographics which is the OPPOSITE of what we should be trying to do to move forward as a nation.

From the debate, Palin’s stance on global warming issues, in a nutshell.
Is it real? You betcha! But I’m not one to attribute it to man. Also there is something to say about man’s activities. Also for cyclical. And I don’t want to argue about the causes. Drill, baby, drill! -wink-

Ryan, I see your points but I voted during the Quayle -Benston debate. Dukakis was the problem with that ticket. I voted for him but again did not care for him as the nominee as I don’t for Obama. The democrats are good at picking bad candidates. Only once did a sound candidate come forward and that was Bill Clinton. Thus far he was the only democrat that won that I voted for during my entire life.
If Obama makes it so be it, but I have a feeling he will not be a good president and will end up destroying the party. It is too bad about Hillary but with teh choices I have before me I am going McCain/Palin. She has more experience than Obama and has had to make tougher decisions. The same goes for McCain

Barracuda Please,
No one buys that you were ever a Democrat. Stop lying. It doesn’t make you impressive or anymore believable. And please stop whining about how the DNC isn’t what it used to be. Your vote was always with the RNC to begin with so stop crying crocodile tears about how the DNC never wanted to get your vote. Have an honest conversation and stop lying like your buddy McCain

”
The deregulation that McCain pushed for is a big part of how we got to this mess in the economy. We don’t need a Teddy Roosevelt, we need an FDR. There was a reason for all that “New Deal” legislation after the stock crash in the early 1900′s. The Republicans have been chipping away at it for a long time, and the “fruits of their labors” are showing.”
If you want to talk about deregulation for other problems thats fine but the democrats are the primary ones at fault in this situation. The war is the republicans fault and the economy the democrats. Point blank.
Since 2003 republicans have been trying to regulate Freddie/Fannie but democrats blocked the votes and kept most of them in committee. They are on record how “Fannie/Freddie do not have problems and regulating them will hurt our goal of increasing low-income home ownership.”
The housing problem stems directly from liberal ideals and “social justice” infringing upon the free market. If you believe in those ideals fine but don’t try convincing intelligent people that they did not cause this problem. Fannie/Freddie underwrote all of these mortgages and they are the agencies that initially bundled the mortgages and sold them to the market.
Here are some links which likely will be deleted so I’ll leaving out http. THe first 2 are more factual regarding 1999 and 2003 Fannie/Freddie and the others are more opinionated.

Barracuda,
I would not say that Cryos is a racist. I would say that he/she carries very disappointing perceptions of our country- that people would vote Obama just because he’s black, that he did not manage to win the nomination fully on his merit-good strategy and his overarching vision people could connect with.

Woody: “Who’s Truth Squads have actually sent threatening letters to TV stations warning of legal action if they don’t pull certain ads?”
No-one’s.
What you’re referring to is a letter from general counsel to Obama for America, Robert F. Bauer (not a truth squad) sent to some radio (not TV) stations, requesting they stop airing one particular ‘false, misleading, and deceptive’ advert (not certain ads, plural). Bauer supported his request with material from various fact-checking organizations.
He’s justifed in making that request. According to FCC regulations, if the advert provably fits those criteria, the radio station has a duty not to air it.
If there’s a problem here with the First Amendment, then it’s with FCC regulations.

“Barracuda,
I would not say that Cryos is a racist. I would say that he/she carries very disappointing perceptions of our country- that people would vote Obama just because he’s black, that he did not manage to win the nomination fully on his merit-good strategy and his overarching vision people could connect with.”
Well I say the same regarding Palin when people say McCain picked her just because she is a woman. Many liberals somehow want to maintain this double standard because they believe in the illusion of the democratic party. Neo-cons and neo-libs have hit mainstream in both parties. I have never been a democrat but I agree with Barracuda the party has dramatically changed but most voters don’t even realize it. They went from a party more aligned with working people and rights to a party of nasty, hypocritical left wing socialists who are fine with trashing the economy or other things about the US as long as they can pin the blame on republicans and get into office.

On 9/11, the VP had to take charge of the attack on America from the White House Bunker because the President was in Florida. The VP had to make decisions quickly, including the one to shoot our own commercial aircraft out of the sky if it had been hijacked.
In that situation – who do you want at the helm?
Biden – ALL THE WAY!

Cyros, I considered defending against your comments. But due to your ignorant views about Americans only voting for Obama because he is black, you have shown you are a fool, and defending against a fool is a waste of time…

Sarah Palin showed us last night that she can memorize short, pithy speeches. Her understanding of the issues, though, less than skin deep. The only way she can prove herself is if the press does its job and insists on press conferences and interviews. That’s how Americans will truly get an idea of the depth of her knowledge. If the press won’t do it’s job, then it’s essential that Gibson’s and Couric’s interviews are continuously aired so Americans can make an informed decision when they vote. Also, Palin’s answer about expanding the V.P.’s power even beyond what Cheney has claimed for himself is, first, unconstitutional and, second, very dangerous. I don’t think she even understands what she said. The right-wing neocons directly out of the Bush Administration who have coached her for the past month, have filled her otherwise empty head (empty on national and international issues) with their frightening plan for the United States being a dictatorship.

“Cyros, I considered defending against your comments. But due to your ignorant views about Americans only voting for Obama because he is black, you have shown you are a fool, and defending against a fool is a waste of time…”
Well considering your one sided naive view of “regulation” I’m not too hurt. I can’t “waste time” with people who can’t grasp economic issues with more than a elementary school view and depth.
I assume you’re applying your superior logic to all the people saying the same thing about Palin. If not….nice hypocrisy.

Cryos, I told you that you would be called a racist. :-)

“Cryos, I told you that you would be called a racist. :-)”
Saying Obama was only picked because he was black is racist.
I know racists hate being called out as such but hey there’s a solution to that.
Stop saying racist things.

Exactly! I thought she laid the folksy act on pretty thick, and her accent seemed overly contrived. It wasn’t that thick in her previous debates. I actually found it pretty excruciating to listen to for 90 minutes.
Other than the overly cutsy “dog gonnit” Joe Six Pack nonsense, she didn’t do much differently than she did in her debates running for governor, which was answer different questions than she was asked when she didn’t know the answer, and unleash a BS storm, laced with outright untruths and misrepresentations. Tragically, too many people in this country easily fall for that kind of thing.
Can’t we just put her on a reality show where she belongs, instead of letting this actress hold high office? Then all the folks who like her can still watch her act every week, but we won’t be governed by fools – again. I’m really sick of getting what they deserve.

Ryan, I am a delegate. There was I find nothing about his win to be respectable. Run the numbers however you wish. Obama was not the best candidate.As a matter of fact, Obama doesn’t stand up in contrast to anyone very well. He also needs a lot of assistance from his party. All the horsemen pulled together to help Obama. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Howard Dean “helped” the delegate count and got him nominated. The whole democrat foundation or tools have been moved to Chicago to be at his disposal. Money went to his campaign at the expense of others. Bill Clinton is out praising him and is under constant criticism for not doing enough. Hillary is pulling out all of the stops more than any other. I am surprised that the she is not asked to do Obama’s debates for him.

Date:Friday,Oct3 2008
Time:11:13Am
I would like to send out my acknowledgments to Senior Correspondent of ABC,news Jake Tapper, because,I read you’re articles from the internet all the time…”and now a comment.”
Re:”Polictial Punch”..Caught Joe Biden, by suprise”….”His Body Language Shows”
Gov.Sarah Palin sting’s Biden in last’s night’s Vice Presidential debate..
In spite of what our correspondent, Rick Pearson, from WGN 9 news in Chicago suggest’s..that “Paulin did little or no damage to Joe Biden.”
The Chicago Tirbune, SunTimes, and the Daily Hearld Of Arlington Ht’s IL also, joined in on the attack, “lieing” about Palin’s Knowlege coupled with her commanding demeanor,in the debate to their readers at large.
Gov.Palin attack on both “OBAMA & BIDEN” and she was magnificent to say, the least. Meanwhile, our newsreporter’s manipulate the process, with their negative reports about the debate which insist’s that Palin, was no match when in fact, she scored big, as msnbc, describes on the internet.
Conversly, I know what I saw on television at the debate last night,
It was Palin, in comanding control in the Vice Presidential debate, not Joe Biden. Furthermore, it bothers me, Jake, when I read how news is reported to the contrary, of what I and the listening audience have wittness on our television’s screens.and so,I have decided to write and comment about the issue, and say, that I don’t think it’s fair to Sarah Palin say, that Biden won when in fact, million’s views saw otherwise.
In conclusion, I believe the voters in America will have the final say,.. that Biden, “No Way, No How, No Deal.”
thank god, for the accuracy of the internet and the voters who actually witness Sarah’s performance.
Sincerely,
Emmery Jones Jr,Hillary’s PUMA
Health Informaion Admin.CCS-P
Graduate:William Rainey Harper College

“The nomination was handed to Obama. Now in the general election the media is attempting to stuff Obama down our throats.”

Lol yep Barracuda good call. Its funny how predictable some people are huh.

“My friends know I’m not so simple minded as to judge an individual by something so simple as race/nationality”
I have minority friends!
The last vestige of the racist!

The rats are abandoning ship, boxes are being packed, secret routes to get out of town are being entered into GPS …..
Charles Krauthammer:
” McCain is losing and we all know it. I don’t like Obama and I don’t like his friends. But he has the intellect and temperament to be President. And he probably will be.”
That’s a big ’10-4′ good buddy..
Electoral map starting to turn bright blue in a lot of very key states.
Mission Accomplished

FYI me “plugging” some democrats is because I believe in balance. I have my viewpoints but need to respect other peoples viewpoints so understand the need for compromise. Even though I may disagree I completely respect open minded, independent democrats who base their conclusions, opinions etc off of fact and just come to different conclusions than me; I’m cool with that.
Just like neo-cons and religious conservatives poison the republican party the “neo-libs” and extremists poison the democratic party. I find the majority of them to be diehard Obama supporters. I have many friends that are democrats however most of them were “Hillary democrats” (several of which are voting Obama) not because they’re any less “liberal” but because most of my friends are open minded and logical.
It’s too bad that with the divide and conquer polarization of the political parties more people can’t seem to “agree to disagree” and be able to understand the compromise needed for people to coexist. We will never have “unity” nor do I want “unity.” Unity means the loss of self and independence by everyone taking a herd mentality. I hope that never happens to america.

Ryan she won the popular vote which was the will of the people. I fought hard for her as I did when Gore was killed in 2000. I know that no one believes what I say and that is your prerogative. I have not come out publicly like Debra Bartoshivich. I think it is awful that for the first time a DNC delegate had her status stripped by a state. The DNC has been taken over by Obama’s minions. I am voting Mccain because frankly I see the worse in Man child Obama.

Ryan I never defended his statement if you look at my posts. I warned him that he would be called a racist.

What debate were you watching then when you said Obama won. Certainly not the same one I saw with him stammering and looking like the inexperienced candidate that he was. the villain and narcissist in this story is Barack Obama.
Posted by: Barracuda
****************
You’re in the minority on Obama’s performance, Barracuda. Every poll showed his debate performance with higher ratings than McCain. But I’m curious about the deep disdain you express for Obama. Can you give somes examples of what makes him a “villian and narcissist” in your eyes?

Both of our* parties is what I meant.

Wait she passed because expectations were so low?
To me I want a woman candidate who can pass with expectations high.

A pig is a pig, is a pig, even with lipstick! Sarah Palin is a talking doll capable of regurgitating whatever lines she has been fed by anyone in charge of her mouth. All that phony folksy one-liners and winking is OK if you are running for the queen title at the Joe-blow shack. However, a vice presidential personality it is not. The VP supposed to be the ambassador at large of the USA, the image that says the president is busy and I am here to represent him – this is who we are and I am here to negotiate, demand, persuade, etc. Does Condoleza Rice personalty, status and performance gives anyone an idea of what it is expected at this level of government? Sarah Palin could not even lick the shoes that Condoleza wears. Wake up people, we need and deserve better representation.

For some reason, I am being censored, and this is my third and final attempt to post this message. Since differing views are not appreciated here, I have decided to go to one a blog that does. This is soooooo 1984.
Regardless of the excessive attempts to gloss over Governor Palin’s performance, the fact remains that she lacked substance and seemed to change the topic when she did not have an answer- which was nearly every question. The truly sad part of it is that expectations were so low that all she had to do was show up and speak in coherent sentences to “win”.
Further, she was combative, and her attempts to lob zingers fell flat. She reminded me of Peggy Hill- Hank Hill’s wife on “King of the Hill”. It was a travesty, and I was and am embarassed for Governor Palin.

Ben we will have to continue this later and I can name a lot. I have to attend a board meeting here soon. I don’t pay attention to polls they never helped much when I voted for Gore or Kerry. Obama did not win that debate in my eyes and those are the ones that matter. Bush did not win against Gore in the 2000 debates according some of my friends at the time. Polls don’t mean alot in my book. I lost faith in them years ago and I suggest you Obama supporters do the same, so you won’t make the same mistakes.
Cryos, no problem. I am glad to come here and see the opinions of others.You are not a racist. Race shoudl not be injected into this campaign and it was something that Obamabots did to kill Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately it worked.
Mccain/Palin 08′

and Ryan you know what I mean by Gore being killed. The voice of the people was assassinated in that election.

poster quotes Hillary Clinton:
“Like Barack Obama, Joe Biden understands … the strategic challenges in … Afghanistan …”

“and Ryan you know what I mean by Gore being killed. The voice of the people was assassinated in that election.”
He lost by a slim electoral margin and actually won the popular vote.
He has since gone on to do great work with global warming even winning a Nobel Prize.
As one of the voices of the people he has been doing just fine.
So explain to me how as a Hillary supporter you are prepared to vote against everything she stands for while you reject a candidate that holds nearly the same policy plans that she does?

“Ryan do stop with the remarks about others being racist. It adds nothing to the conversation.”
Racists need to be called out on their BS.
Sorry you feel that a racist adds to the conversation but standing against a racist does not.

“”I fought hard for her as I did when Gore was killed in 2000.”
Gore was killed? When?”
Sigh Ryan C. Oh well some people just aren’t open minded and conform to what they’re told; its just a fact of life.
So far as 2000 I can sympathize in people being upset about the vote, however I look at things like panhandle voting being aired as closed nearly an hour early also. If estimates are correct the extra Bush votes in the panhandle would have made the recounts a moot point.
However announcing the panhandle causing a closer race and then all the drama sure gave the big networks a lot of rating and viewers didn’t it. And it furthered both parties’ divide and conquer goals.

“”Race shoudl not be injected into this campaign”
Then why did Cryos do so?
Posted by: Ryan C”
Obama has injected race more than anyone to this campaign so I feel it is my right to call out the hypocrisy. Notice Obama didn’t win any primaries once the MSM aired the dirt on him because he was already safely the nominee. Yet Obama still used the race card several times against the clintons who have done a lot to help minorities in the country. I personally don’t like the clintons but find the Obama ambush disgusting.
McCain took the race card out of the equation when he called Obama to the table on the dollar bill incident. That was a good move.
So as a private citizen I am unable to comment on race yet it is ok for the DNC nominee to flat out use race tensions and racism? Am I the only one that finds that double standard appaling?

Living in a caucus-voting state the argument for Clinton winning the primary “popular” vote is puzzling (and not because it disingenuously includes the disqualified states of Florida and Michigan).
What do people think caucuses are? My Dem caucus had five times the normal turnout this year. My wife and I had to park nearly 3/4 of a mile from the school location because there was such a huge turnout.
We broke in groups by precincts of just a handful of blocks each. These were people I knew or recognized from my neighborhood. We discussed the candidates, then voted. Then we discussed them again and everyone had a chance to change their vote.
Obama won by 2/3rds. It was average Americans getting together with their neighbors to pick a candidate, participatory Democracy at its highest form.

“Notice Obama didn’t win any primaries once the MSM aired the dirt on him because he was already safely the nominee. ”
Rev Wright hit the fan in mid March.
Obama went on to win NC & OR.
Guess we can add dishonesty to your bigotry.

“So as a private citizen I am unable to comment on race ”
Hey feel free to say whatever racist things pop into your mind.
Just don’t think you have a right to not have that view challenged.

“Notice Obama didn’t win any primaries once the MSM aired the dirt on him because he was already safely the nominee. ”
Rev Wright hit the fan in mid March.
Obama went on to win NC & OR.
Guess we can add dishonesty to your bigotry.
Posted by: Ryan C ”
Ah that’s right he won 2 forgot about that. Your focus on “racism” is funny you just expose yourself to be a small minded little fool. I bet your some 18 year old kid who lives in a sheltered suburb, has no friends outside your race, and will live in your moms basement for the next 5 years. Those are the type of people who obsess about racism when it is not justified. Hopefully some day you grow up and become a man.

“Your focus on “racism” is funny”
Yeah its a laugh riot!
But its obviously getting to you
“you just expose yourself to be a small minded little fool. I bet your some 18 year old kid who lives in a sheltered suburb, has no friends outside your race, and will live in your moms basement for the next 5 years”
LOL! Projection is a terrible thing cryos.

“Biden sounded ok while his mouth was moving, but when you got a chance to think about what the words meant, you noticed he was mostly making stuff up as he went along. That Lebanon “history” was a riot.”
You mean the part about us and France kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon and Joe and Barack saying move NATO in? When did that happen, Joe? Back in 1929 around the same time President Franklin Roosevelt went on television?

That was politics being played on the Liberal’s home court – a moderator with a conflict and the liberal media to spin. Still, Palin came in and beat the home team.

Cyros wrote: Keep in mind that was a local caucus and doesn’t mean that Obama won everywhere because he won in your local district.
****************
Our district was representative of Obama’s finish state wide. Their was some game playing that occurred in my precinct that surprised me since this was the first caucus I’d attended.
Before the vote, we broke into groups favoring a particular candidate. We were asked to discuss why we supported this candidate and select one member of the group to make our case to everyone before the voting.
Undecideds also broke into a separate group. As it turned out, the most strident Clinton supporter joined the independent group and did manage to get two of them to vote Clinton. No Obama supporter used that tactic.

Thanks Naive, Beckie, Barracuda and others. The whole “racism” thing has been a diversion on this thread and I’m glad people recognize the difference between racism and open discussions. Ryan C will learn some day though :)
Some “racism” can be taken lightly and isn’t racism at all. For example I love really spicy food. When I’ve been at my laotian friend’s friends places I will eat the hottest sauces with them since Laotian and Thai food is spicy and they make it homemade. A couple times friends or family have joked around “wow usually white boys can’t eat that hot of food.” It wasn’t awkward and I didn’t consider it racist; I thought it was funny and a true observation that a lot of white people don’t like spicy food.

Palin did better then expected. The media of course acted just like I thought they would. Ignoring major Biden flubs. Constitutional flubs. The VP can ALWAYS preside over the senate (doesn’t mean they do but they can). Go to the senate webpage and look at the the leadership, yep there’s Cheney. Article 2 deals more with the VP not article 1. The guys been in the senate for 30 something years and he doesn’t know this?
Foreign policy flubs. When was Hezbollah ever kicked out of Lebanon? What part of the NATO charter would be relevant to NATO assuming a role in Lebanon? Biden knows Lebanon borders Syria not Turkey right? Then he went back again to the Surge hasn’t worked, or else his statement that mcCain’s strategy all through the war was wrong is a compete lie. General Mckiernan did not say the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan especially not the idea of clear and hold. He said (Oct 2) the alliance with tribal units would not work as they did in Iraq. Obama has not done a thing about nuclear weapons. The Nunn-Liger legislation already dealth with them. obama-Luger was an extension and only added CONVENTIOANL weapons, not nuclear.
And Biden is the foreign policy expert of the dem ticket? Pathetic.

Cryos is reduced to making up stories to hide his dishonesty and racism.
I frequent post blogs and snips of articles and put them in quotes as many commentators here do.
Links are not allowed on these blogs.

Is he hiding something else?
Posted by: Naive
******************
I don’t think that we’ve heard from any candidate’s grandparents. What it it you want to hear from Obamas? Sorry, I’m not following your point.

The bottom line is that George W. Bush has served two terms due to the outcome of elections that were suspicious at best.
If the powers to be decide that McCain will win the election, he will win.
If the same powers decide that Obama will win the election, he will win.
All the politics, polls, and election results will only serve as a distraction.
So, keep pointing to polls, the electoral college map, and the predictions of the pundits.
The men with the money and the power are all getting a good laugh.
And, they will decide.

“Biden could clearly lead. Palin should and could not lead yet. Maybe later but not now. ”
I think the same thing about Obama. The difference is Obama is the potential president who can’t “learn on the job” and Palin is a potential VP who in all likelyhood would not become president and would be poised to learn on the job.
To anyone who is going to counter “McCain is old and could die” try to be realistic and remember McCains mom is still alive so obviously justifying that notion with an average life expectancy claim is a big stretch.

An article from yesterday states that new information will be made public over the next week or so regarding the birthplace of Barak Obama.
The author writes that information will surface regarding whether or not Obama was actually born in the United States.
Could prove interesting if the Democrat candidate is not a natural born citizen.

Who is he,
Let it go. McCain wasn’t born in the U.S. either. So, it’s a draw.
Non-issue.

Thanks, Ryan C. That’s even better.
Still, non-issue.
I’m tired of all the conspiracy theory propaganda people fall for.

Let’s not forget, Sarah Palin is the only one of the three national candidates who did not vote for the billion dollar bailout.
But, the Obama position is that he stood against the war when he couldn’t vote on the war.
Using the Obama standard, Sarah Palin could say that she stood against the bailout.

Ryan C. weren’t McCain’s father in the military in Panama when he was born?

one good thing about these opinion pages many people can attempt to be many things and represent many views on many issues some making their views more harder and inflexible than they really are,while others attempt to come across as your pain is my painish all the while harboring some real self hatred&loathing issues i know there are those who might say BRK DCK|| you ain’t no freaking dr of psychology. to which i say true but than neither is that phil dude or that laura dudette| whats your point? but on this page at this point in time i could be, and none would be the wiser to me or you unless of course YOU GET BAGGED ON TO CATCH A PREDATOR but i digress this whole opinion page setup is not only great for voicing ones perceived views it also lets one role play which in this format can be fun as long as we remember PUTTING LIPSTICK ON A PIG WONT CHANGE WHAT IT IS

“Ryan C. weren’t McCain’s father in the military in Panama when he was born?”
Yes.
But its a myth that military bases are “us soil”.
From an NYT article: “Mr. McCain’s citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods.”

Palin is a joke. And anyone that thinks she won that debate is delusional, brain washed by the GOP, or a liar.
Palin is like a Jr. High cheerleader giving shout outs to the 3rd grade class during the debate. I understand she wants to “Be a woman of the people” and she wants to be “Folksy” but this needs to be serious business, and that kind of crap needs to stay in Jr. High, as it doesn’t belong in a presidential race. The fact that you GOP nut jobs actually are buying into this garbage makes me very sad and concerned for our country.

Perhaps Obama will need a birth certificate bailout.

“Candidate Obama will not release his birth certificate, as it is not public record according to Hawaii law.”
Yes it is. This is a lie.
The birth certificate in not only on file, its been physically examined by several non partisan fact check organizations.
But the right wing doesn’t care about the truth only repeating the lie.
Hmmm who else did that?

MEW,
If the research I did is correct, the Palin home is actually assessed at $552,000.

Let’s face it, whether you support McCain/Palin or not, the bar was lowered for Palin in this debate. As long as she did not repeat the embarrassment of one of her recent interviews, it was going to be considered a win for her. I did not hear people talking about lowering the bar for Obama because of his “lack of experience.” I did not hear people talking about lowering the bar for Hillary during the Democratic debates. When you are a heart beat away from the Presidency, the bar should never be lowered, it should be higher.

“As for Obama, his campaign still refuses to release applicable documents for scrutiny and verification.”
The Obama campaign has provided at The Ticket’s request what it says is a copy of the Illinois senator’s official birth certificate, reproduced here, showing he was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961, at 7:24 p.m., which means he was late for dinner, just like a politician. Click on the photo to enlarge for reading.
n June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document’s authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is “fake.”
We beg to differ. FactCheck staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as “supporting documents” to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
The Obama campaign released his birth certificate in June.
As always, right wingers are liars.

FactCheck is simply one of many websites with an opinion, albeit, not the only one, and offers validity only to those who desire to believe its conclusions.
Howeveer, factcheck is not and has not ever been an original source.
As stated, the Supreme Court will more than likely have to decide this one.
Remember the 2000 election?
The decision is in good hands.

Who is He: Somewhere during this all this political bs I read that FastCheck was somehow connected to the Obama organization.

Ryan C says “Right wingers are liars.”
I would suggest the left wing has an equal share of those surviving on mistruths, or lies.
Let’s take the most recent lies from Joe Biden at the debate. I will list only the first 14.
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
And, we can always refer to one of the lies of the last Democrat President.
“I did not have sex with that woman.”
A lot of truth there.

As the site seems to be the predominant source of verification for Obama supporters that post, I have no doubt that a link to the Obama campaign exists, as one blogger suggests.
Any candidate that can afford to have his own 24 television station promoting his propaganda undoubtedly has enough money to buy a website and control its operation and direction.

Ryan C.,
Right Wingers know that FDR was not on TV in 1929…deny that one!!!
When obama takes our guns away the left wingers can use the wooden arrows to shoot the dumb right wingers.

“As the site seems to be the predominant source of verification for Obama supporters that post, I have no doubt that a link to the Obama campaign exists, as one blogger suggests.”
A smear offered with zero evidence.
The right wingers fav method!
So if FactCheck is out, how do you contend with PoliFact, the LA Times and other media sources saying the same thing?
Does Obama own them too?
Or are you just completely full of it?
BTW, I will go lie for lie anytime with the right wing.
You yourself have been dishonest half a dozen times already to say nothing of the crappy sources you rely upon.

“Right Wingers know that FDR was not on TV in 1929…deny that one!!!”
And Americans know that Czechoslovakia has not existed for 15 years.
That post watergate, the President cannot fire agency heads.
That Spain is a NATO ally.
Shall I go on?

“but such is to be expected to those who confuse the internet with authority or validity.”
From someone who bases his claims about Obama’s citizenship on the right wing sewers of the internet, this is hilarious.
So when is the Supreme Court going to take up this case?
Or is that yet another lie from your keyboard?

Lies from both sides of the spectrum are undoubtedly plentiful, Ryan, but such does not validate or justify the reliance on unsupported facts by Obama or Biden.
In simple terms, two wrongs do not make a right.
And, remember, the Supreme Court will decide, just like in 2000.

“Taxes on the wealthy and business simply equal higher prices for the working class.
So, Obama is equal to double taxation.”
If the cost of taxes are passed onto others, that’s not double taxation but tax incidence.
Double taxation is when someone is taxed twice for the same thing.
Stupid and dishonest….you do your fellow right wingers proud.

“What about the Democrats’ effort to disqualify mail-in military votes in Florida in 2000? Now why would they do that? Are they anti-armed forces? Of course not. But they know how certain demographic voter blocks typically vote, and the military votes overwhelmingly Republican. Is that voter caging?”
Yes, it is voter caging. And it was wrong.
The same as its wrong for voter purges to center around certain minorities groups and neighborhoods.
I worry a great deal more about parties using the government to deny people their right to vote vs parties using legal means to challenge illegal groups.
If a 501(c) 4 springs up to attack McCain, I fully expect them to take every legal measure necessary.

“The only catch here is you need the truth on your side in a slander case”
In England.
In the US you must also prove malice which is much more difficult.

Call it what you like, Ryan.
Twice the price equals twice the price.
You call it incidence.
We call it “Obama Smoke and Mirrors.”
Remember 2000.

“Since Palin claims John McCain knows how to win wars, could someone tell me which wars he has won?”
The private war with himself to leave the Hanoi Hilton with an early release, the one where he took more years of brutal torture to honor the code his fellow prisoners set for themselves.
I thought you to be a partisan for your candidate and I can respect that. But between attempting to dishonor a veteran and calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist makes it clear you are not.

Some interesting Thomas Jefferson quotes I think are pretty applicable to today’s political climate. Just throwing them in for amusement. I am very anti-socialist so I could never in my right mind vote for Obama.
The majority of democratic politicians are lawyers (majority of republicans are business people) and a lot of democrats are basically socialists so I find these amusing from that perspective also.
“If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour?”
“The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper.”
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
“The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the tracts which favor that theory.”
“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.”
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
“Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.”
“When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.”

“The authenticity of the fake Obama birth certificate will only come into question in a scenario that includes an Obama win in January. Such is not reality”
So in other words, you made up the impending Supreme Court decision.
BTW an Obama win would be in Nov.
Swearing in takes place in Jan.

If Thomas Jefferson was alive he would be a republican ;) lol
“A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned – this is the sum of good government.”

My favorite TJ quote:
“That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.”

I respectfully disagree. I believe that some things in the constitution can not be brushed aside to address issues caused by the very same people we trust to write our laws.
Posted by: Cryos
*****************
I can see that a handful of folks in this thread care, but you’re talking to yourselves. It won’t be a factor on Nov. 4.

If you read comments instead of reading into them, you would probably do a little better.
While you are at it Ryan, you should probably read up on the electoral college.
Voters select electors in November.
The electoral college actually votes in January.
When the swearing in takes place has nothing to do with it.
You should have known that.
Perhaps you need to look into some stronger meds.
Remember 2000.

I agree Able but keep in mind since Obama wants to follow the “letter of the law” for everything he should concede he is ineligible by THE LETTER OF THE LAW if the birth certificate turns out to be false. You can’t “have your cake and eat it to” when it is convenient.
That means it doesn’t matter how people vote it is an unavoidable requirement that supercedes everything else and if the MSM and government were honorable this still wouldn’t be an issue to discuss today it would be said and done.

“The birth certificate argument is stupid. Nobody cares.”
Apparently the framers of the Constitution cared as they decided that only natural born citizens were eligible for the Presidency.
But there are some who view the Constitution as “stupid.”
Just remember 2000.

“While you are at it Ryan, you should probably read up on the electoral college.
Voters select electors in November.
The electoral college actually votes in January.”
The electoral college votes in Dec, not Jan.
The certification of the vote takes place in Congress in Jan.
None of that of course answers the question of when if at all the Supreme Court is planning on hearing a challenge to Obama’s citizenship as a poster originally asserted.

“That means it doesn’t matter how people vote it is an unavoidable requirement that supercedes everything else and if the MSM and government were honorable this still wouldn’t be an issue to discuss today it would be said and done”
So the right wing continuing to circulate this rumor in the face of contradictory evidence is somehow the fault of MSM & government?
Are you serious?

“Apparently the framers of the Constitution cared as they decided that only natural born citizens were eligible for the Presidency.”
Obama was born in Hawaii while McCain was born in the Panama Canal zone.
Which of them is not natural born if either?

Actually, Connie, I don’t find the possible association with an “independence party” to be as disturbing as 20 years of association and membership in a church pastored by likes of Jeremiah Wright.
While you may argue that Wright represents more of the religious or personal aspect of Obama, his “damning” of America pushes his association into another realm.
Being subjected to the Wright type of racism, treason, and hatred for over 20 years, allowing the man to marry you, and then allowing him to baptize your children gives me much more reason for pause.
I would also suggest that association with the Alaska Independence Party to be much less of a negative than admiration for Louis Farrakhan or the like.
As for the debate, it should have been an easy win for Biden, but he told at least 14 lies during his diatribe. While Sarah Palin was sometimes less than accurate, she didn’t repeatedly lie.
Third party candidate Gonzales was not allowed to participate, so I would suggest that both candidates were losers.

“The framers of the Constitution are dead. They won’t be voting in Nov. They’re also not worrying about the price of gas or the stock market.”
Anyone primarily concerned about the war should not be voting for republicans since it is supported by many republicans.
Anyone primarily concerned with the economy should not be voting for democrats since democrats mostly caused this mess.
If democrats had regulated Fannie/Freddie in 2003-2005 instead of blocking votes and refusing to regulate the agencies to hold up the “low income housing” ideal, we might have had a soft housing market downturn around 2006 when capacity was reached, but we would not be where we are now.
It’s unfortunate the media lets democrats get away with passing “feel good” policies and then not taking responsibility for the actions of those policies when they blow up. However it does match the democratic party ideal of no one should be responsible for their own actions; point the finger at someone else, sue someone, blame government etc.
Fannie/Freddie are at the root of the mortgage issues.

Amazing that you took so long to pick up on the electoral college procedure, Ryan. Fact check must have been experiencing high volume from the Obama camp.
Once again, Ryan, try reading instead of reading into.
Never was it posted that the question of Obama’s place of birth was on the docket of the Supreme Court, only that if an Obama election win should occur (which is unlikely) that it would come before the court.
All you have to do is remember 2000.

“If Obama is in the right and could take the time to produce a scanned copy WHY COULDN’T AND WOULDN’T HE SUBMIT THE ORIGINAL? Its a very simple question.”
Its the same argument regarding Bush’s time in the TANG.
If he can’t produce the paperwork in my hand, why it must be a forgery/conspiracy!
Its stupid.
There’s a scanned copy for all to see.

“Who was in charge of Congress and the executive branch from 2003 to 2005?
That would be the Republicans.
How did Democrats block votes on reform when they controlled no committees and could call no votes?
Lets see the senate has been 49-49 much of the last 6 years regardless of the impression given that “republicans control congress.” I believe I’ve seen you complain about republican fillibusters. Well guess what in 2005 democrats could fillibuster every bit as much as republicans can now.

BTW, Ryan,
Time for you to get back on the subject of this post–the debate won by Sarah Palin.
Fourteen Biden lies at the debate (or, mistatements, in Democrat lingo) were listed.
You responded incoherently to one.
Get busy.
And, while you flounder, remember 2000.

Anyone primarily concerned with the economy should not be voting for democrats since democrats mostly caused this mess.
If democrats had regulated Fannie/Freddie in 2003-2005 instead of blocking votes and refusing to regulate the agencies to hold up the “low income housing” ideal, we might have had a soft housing market downturn around 2006 when capacity was reached, but we would not be where we are now.
*********
I see this argument on the blogs, but I have to say, I don’t see this “it’s the poor people’s fault” in my area. I hang out with contractors who are going out of business in droves or just barely hanging on. Maybe in Mich. loans to low-income people has been a problem, but California, Las Vegas, Florida? Even if you’re right and the Dems relaxed the regs, they didn’t force banks to make bad loans — not to poor people, or contractors, or flippers, or investors. They didn’t force Wall Street to buy and sell blocks of mortgages.
It seems weird that the Repub ticket this year is running so hard as populists and for regulation. Actually, I thought Palin was confusing on this last night. On one hand she was for more regulation and on the other she wanted government to leave business alone. I liked it better when I knew what Repubs were for.

“the debate won by Sarah Palin.”
Post debate polling says otherwise.
CBS: Biden won by a 2 to 1 margin.
CNN: Biden won 51% to 36%
Some other polling for you
Gallup: Obama +7
Rasmussen: Obama +7
Hotline/FD: Obama +6
Very funny to see right wingers so ecstatic that Palin did not humiliate herself.

Nice try to turn around the issue Ryan but don’t think you’ve fooled me. You still can’t answer why Obama simply won’t provide the documentation because you can’t.
You can try to add all the fluff you want but it is easy to see through the facade. Nice try though you probably fooled some people.

“Nice try to turn around the issue Ryan but don’t think you’ve fooled me. You still can’t answer why Obama simply won’t provide the documentation because you can’t. ”
IOW he’s guilty until he proves his innocence.
Thanks for admitting you were full of it.

As evidenced in his comments, Ryan always opts to attack a specific portion of a post and never the entire post.
Like most of the paid Obama bloggers, Ryan works from the “pick and choose a snippet” format.
Simple, but ineffective.

“IOW he’s guilty until he proves his innocence.
Thanks for admitting you were full of it.”
Once again nice deflection but I don’t buy into Obamalogic. You can infer that I say he’s guilty until proven innocent but that’s not the case. I’m just asking a very simple question as to why he won’t do the easiest thing and get it over with. I don’t think that’s too complicated of a question to ask.
If I got pulled over by a cop and he/she asked for my insurance, why would I refuse to produce the insurance and instead drag it out to a court date? I wouldn’t I would simply pull my insurance card out of my wallet and resolve the issue right then.

“You can infer that I say he’s guilty until proven innocent but that’s not the case. I’m just asking a very simple question as to why he won’t do the easiest thing and get it over with”
Exactly, why doesn’t he prove his innocence, he must be guilty!
That’s the problem when you start out with a dishonest premise.
You would like to push the birth cert story but you realize its kooky and that could damage your cred so you pretend to be some bystander.

“Gore enjoyed 5pt or better leads in some polls very early in Oct but by the end of the 1st week of Oct he was tied or losing.”
Let’s see, it’s very early in October. Or, perhaps Ryan has poll results to show that it’s actually December.
Good job, Ryan.
That was 2000, and you are remembering.

“Let’s see, it’s very early in October.”
Yes it is.
You were wrong about Kerry’s poll numbers.
BTW didn’t you just accuse me of only responding to parts of a post and how wrong that was?
Hypocrisy thy name is Palin wins.

Daily newspapers on Friday differed sharply in scoring the vice presidential debate between Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden, suggesting that neither candidate clearly won over public opinion.
According to The Wall Street Journal Sarah Palin “more than held her own” in debating foreign policy with the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and “won on points at least on Iraq and Afghanistan.”
The New York Times gave a scalding review of Palin’s performance.
The Washington Post gave both sides a tepid review.
So much for the polls.
And, meanwhile, Ryan remembers 2000.

“Drive around your friggin neighborhood and look at the for sale signs. Are those all low-income people that Dems forced banks to finance?”
Actually if you look at statistics the foreclosure rate is MUCH HIGHER in “low income” areas than others.

Fact check, again.
You can do better, Ryan.
The Obama payroll demands more.
So, once again, the 14 (count’em 14) lies told by Joe Biden during the debate. This list does not take into account half-truths.
JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES IN DEBATE LAST NIGHT
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false. McCain’s only reference to “de-regulation of the heath industry” is his support to allow us to buy insurance across state lines- period.
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan. In fact, taxes will average close to 35% similar to the Clinton years.
Remember 2000, Ryan.

“”If I got pulled over by a cop and he/she asked for my insurance, why would I refuse to produce the insurance and instead drag it out to a court date?”
So right wing nuts on the internet are now cops?
Stay away from the analogies. You don’t do them very well.
Posted by: Ryan C”
I personally think this is a good analogy so would like input from others on it (logical minded people please).
You are asked to produce a legal document that is a requirement for your activity (driving in this case instead of presidential eligibility). You claim to have a valid document and could nullify the issue simply by producing that legal document. Instead you decide to delay the issue and go to court proceedings to “prove” what you could have proved in the first place.
As an addition it would then be like going to court and asking the judge to just take you on your word and dismiss the proof of insurance ticket without simply showing the judge the insurance you claim to have in the first place.

“As for the polls you seem to worship, Ryan, they are only as good as the pollsters and their methods.”
Which is why I posted all of them.
And ALL of them show Obama WINNING.

Yeah that’s right by 2003 it went back to a republican majority the 49-49 was in 2001 after Jeffords went independant. However only 40 seats are required for a fillibuster so my point is still proven correct. Democrats ARE ON CONGRESSIONAL RECORD OPPOSING FANNIE/FREDDIE REGULATION. I’d like you to refute that FACT not dance around the issue.

“Cryos,
For your analogy to work, it would have to be perfectly acceptable for Joe Citizen to demand people produce their insurance documentation.”
Nice try yet again. Since it is a presidential requirement it shouldn’t take Joe Citizen to demand it; it should be a matter of course.

“Nice try yet again. Since it is a presidential requirement it shouldn’t take Joe Citizen to demand it; it should be a matter of course.”
Is there an application that the President fills out before he is sworn in?
Are all Presidents required to provide the birth certificates to prove not just natural born citizenry but also the age requirement?

“It was 50-50 (Cheney tie break) before Jeffords split.
That made it 50-49 with Jeffords a true indie. That led to a power sharing agreement between the Dem & GOP given the tenuous nature of the Dems “majority”
Thank you. I wanted you to be the one to post that democrats had an advantage in the senate in 2001 since if I forwarded that notion that republicans were not in charge of congress in 2001 you would have refuted it.
So how again is it that “democrats didn’t block Fannie/Freddie deregulation?”

“”Nice try yet again. Since it is a presidential requirement it shouldn’t take Joe Citizen to demand it; it should be a matter of course.”
Is there an application that the President fills out before he is sworn in?
Are all Presidents required to provide the birth certificates to prove not just natural born citizenry but also the age requirement?
Posted by: Ryan C”
I would say yes otherwise its messed up that average citizens have more responsibility when applying for a job than a president of the united states. When I want employment I have to produce a valid ID and an ORIGINAL birth certificate or social security card.
So I should have to produce this documentation but the most powerful position in the country should not? Hmmm interesting stance.

“Everyone in the country who owned property was benefiting from property value inflation over the past 15 years or more and happy to have it. No one in leadership from either party was trying to put the brakes on this thing. Bush bragged about how his administration was fostering the “ownership society”.
I just don’t agree that the mortgage mess can be layed on the Dems. I fault them for buying so heavily into flawed Republican economic policy — “Government isn’t the solution to your problems; it is the problem.” – R Reagan. All of a sudden Repubs in Congress are for more regulation and have been all along? I don’t think so.”
I agree with the beginning of this post that both republicans and democrats looked the other way. Homeowners also knew it was a bubble but thought they were benefitting so didn’t question it.
Republicans usually are not for regulations but in this case they were. And in hindsight republicans were correct and Barney, Dodd and other prominent democrats were wrong and showed a lack of foresight. Even Bill Clinton admitted democrats dropped the ball in blocking Fannie/Freddie regulation since his efforts to regulate were fought by democrats also.

Good luck on this thread all. Ryan the slience on many of these issues I countered and have asked you about is deafening. Are the google searches not pulling back an effective argument? Lol.

I’ll talk straight with ya whether I answer the question the moderator or you wants a crap sandwich on the e-bay. I make my diverse family mad waving the white flag at the creeping gay-lesbian agenda but if I wink the pundits will get back to ya. Charlie.

“Thank you. I wanted you to be the one to post that democrats had an advantage in the senate in 2001 since if I forwarded that notion that republicans were not in charge of congress in 2001 you would have refuted it.”
Why would I have? I know the Democrats had a power sharing agreement in teh Senate for about a year and half before the 108th session of Congress took over.
“So how again is it that “democrats didn’t block Fannie/Freddie deregulation?”"
The regulation was first intro’d by Chuck Hagel as S1058 in 2003 (ie when the GOP was in full control). It went nowhere.
Hagel intro’d it again in 2005 (S190). It died in committee.
In may of 2006, McCain became a cosponsor of S190 and gave a floor speech on it. The bill went nowhere.

“”Ryan the slience on many of these issues I countered and have asked you about is deafening”
Really?
I’ve asked you repeatedly to back up your claim on how the Democrats blocked regulation and you cannot.
Posted by: Ryan C”
Last post since I have to go. I’m not paid to blog.
I provided a quote directly from Barney regarding democratic opposition to this legislation. Consult the regulation or do some basic google searches like I provided search criteria for and you’ll find the answers. It is that simple.

“If you google” 2003 barney fannie mae” a few hits down is another query.nytimes article regarding the republicans attempted legislation and democrats’ resistance”
You mean the toothless regulation from the Bush admin which Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac welcomed?
Funny thing is I would be happy to concede that this was a bipartisan screwup with many chances missed to fix the situation.
Obama intro’d a mortgage fraud bill twice in the Dem Congress and it went nowhere.
However, you sought to blame the Democrats and Democrats only and that was not true.

She was on auto pilot, very well coached , bravo to the coaches, but I don’t think you can get away from the last few weeks.
She could not allow herself to get off her rehearsed lines. Is there anybody out there who did get aqn emotional clutch when Biden talked about loosing his family, she did not pause, just went straight on with her talking points, even though this had been in response to her talking about her family and implying that she had cornered the market on understanding families and problems.
SO couldn’t she take a moment out of touting her experience and feel for the guy who was sharing the stage with her. If she could not do that in that moment, how are the American people she was talking to supposed to bealive that she feels for them?

Joe Biden was substantive, thoughtful and in command. Sarah Palinignored virtually every question and stuck to generalities andplatitudes. Yes Palin didn’t stumble as she did during the Katie Couricinterviews. But she didn’t impress, either. It was all boilerplate–like she was giving a scripted pep talk, not proving she could handlethe toughest job in the world. Biden kept his cool, even though he clearly had a much greatermastery of virtually every subject discussed. He kept the heat onJohn McCain–where it should be–and forcefully defended Obama whenPalin made ludicrous claims about transferring the surge toAfghanistan or “waving the white flag of surrender” in Iraq. I’m a little surprised to see the talking heads on TV talking aboutwhat a great job Palin did. Maybe they just want this race to becloser than it currently looks. But most swing voters, in an instantsnapshot, thought otherwise. According to a CBS poll, 46 percent of uncommitted voters who watchedthe debate tonight thought Joe Biden was the winner. 21 percentthought Sarah Palin won, 33 percent thought it was a draw. According to a CNN poll, 51 percent of voters though Biden won,compared to 36 percent for Palin. (Only voters polled by Fox, surprise surprise, gave it to Palin.) Before the debate, 54 percent of CNN voters said Palin wasunqualified to be vice president. After the debate, that number (53percent) only changed by a point. Maybe, for once, substance prevailed over style. Joe Biden was chosen for VP, for his honesty free spirit and his experience!
He’s supposed to make a point when is needed. Sarah Plain was chosen for the position after only one meeting .The decisive factor was only the women’s vote and the prerequisite to be the John McCain cheerleader. She makes only scripted interviews and has very thin Resume. Sarah Plain VP? Thanks but not thanks!

Gee, you can have a good look at Obama’s birth cert on FactCheck if you’re not convinced that his website didn’t photoshop it. They even took a photograph that shows the raised seal and the signature.
Palin seemed programmed, Biden, informed. And I felt she was rather callous the way she just went back to talking about “John the Maverick” right after Biden almost teared up talking about the day his wife and daughter were killed in a car accident. She could have taken that moment to also talk about the difficulties she faced raising a family as a mother, it would’ve made her seem so much more authentic and able to emphathise with people.
She came across as just sticking to her talking points, not a down-to-earth and real person. And what was with all her winks, EXACTLY?

Ryan C: IWe all know that Obama associated with crooked underhanded people like Rezko and now Larry Walsh who is being investigated. All the dirst is coming out now. Father P, Wright and Farrkhan. Who else is going to turn up.

John: All the networks are pro-obama and listening to Obama in North Carolina is a farce. He isn’t going to change anything in Washington because he doesn’t know how. He will have to be trained by Biden who will be running the country while Obama sits back.