Tax Facts

And a whole segment of the population who pay no taxes now are getting a rebate check for the taxes someone else paid.
Normally we call this bribery.

calling a tax cut for the middle class ‘welfare’ is the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard.

I was voting for McCain anyway but this seals the deal.I make $90K.
Thanks for putting the figures up Jake.
====
you’ll lost that extra under McCain’s health care tax.

Under Obama taxes for middle and wroking classes will go down.

Jake, I hope you will clarify, before you put this on GMA, that Obama’s tax hikes only kick in above $250,000/year. Just citing the “top quintile” as above $110,000 is misleading and makes it appear as if Obama will raise taxes on anyone making above $110,000, which I’m sure you know is FALSE. Please be fair and honest with the American people.

Gus, I am a doctor. health care not a problem. i am passing this chart on to my two sisters who are undecided, so they say. One makes about 90K-100K like me.

It’s all dishonest anyway. No real tax cuts are coming. 8 years of deficits have come home to roost.

I appreciate seeing it broken down in this manner.
It seems I would get a couple hundred more of a tax break with Mccain, but I will gladly give that up to get a President who plans to lead and do what is best for the entire country, not whatever the extremists MccAin has been pandering to, demand of him.
I will vote for Obama and Biden because I really do believe in country first!

The top 1% also own 90% of wealth. So you support giving AIG executives whose greed and lack of self control is to blame for our current problems, a tax cut? They need another trip to the UK to go pheasant hunting in knickers? In case you hadn’t noticed, wealth in this country is increasingly place in their hands and the middle class is slipping into nonexistence due to healthcare costs, etc.

If you’re in the top quintile, making above $110,000, McCain will give you a tax cut of $12,144 while Obama will raise your taxes $4600 more.
Yep, that’s me when you add in my other assets. i don’t need my taxes raised.I pay enough as it is.

I got it.
The mistake is that you used 2009 numbers for your comparison.
But by 2012 numbers Obama gives a bigger cut to people who are in the fourth quintile as well.
Nice trick you got there ! But misleading as you like to say.
So whoever down there keeps saying he/she will vote for McCain because he/she makes 100K, well newsflash, you will get a biGGER cut from Obama in the next four years.

Obama said that he will reduce taxes for everybody making under $250K. I hope you will have information on the 45% who actually pay no tax. The ones that will be receiving Obama’s tax credit refunds a/k/a welfare.
THAT IS MCCAINS LIE
IF YOU DON’T PAY PAYROLL TAXES YOU GET NO CHECK
Ok it is official.I would do better under McCain’s plan.
I was voting for McCain anyway but this seals the deal.I make $90K.
ALSO NOT TRUE
UNDER MCCAIN YOUR EMPLOYER IS ALLOWED TO STOP YOUR HEALTH CARE AND YOU CAN SHOP WITH $5,000 FROM MCCAIN (WITH U HAVING TO PAY AT LEAST $8,000 MORE
OR KEEP IT THE SAME WITH OBAMA

And a whole segment of the population who pay no taxes now are getting a rebate check for the taxes someone else paid.
Normally we call this bribery.
Posted by: drjohn | Oct 19, 2
*********************************************
Do you also call it bribery when it is paid to the corporations, many of which have been paying zero income tax in the past 8 years, but will be getting billions in tax subsidies under the McCain plan??

Jake Thaty fith quintile is a very large group and I believe that to Say that someone making 110,00 is going to pay 4600 in more taxes is false.
Lets be honest here you are talking average here of all people in that quintile. Some will still get a cut and some will brakle even and some will pay more in that Group. Obama says below 250,000 no taxe raises.

I hope you will have information on the 45% who actually pay no tax. The ones that will be receiving Obama’s tax credit refunds a/k/a welfare.
———————-
And McCain gives a $5000 insurance credit to those same individuals.
But that’s different right?

Does this include McCain’s new economic recovery plan introduced this week?
McCain proposed capital gains be reduced to 7.5% for the next two years.
Billionaires Warren Buffet and Bill Gates (the richest Americans) make all there money this way. Senator McCain thinks they should pay 7.5% taxes, while working families pay 25%.
Cindy McCain falls into the top 0.1% of earners, so McCain wants to give himself more than $500,000. My family gets $259, less than a dollar a day.

How about the tax credit for kids which McCain will double? With three kids – do the math…McCain has my vote. I am tired of being penalized for making “too much” money when I struggle to pay for preschool and groceries with no help from the Gov’t, while I see those who benefit from gov’t programs driving nicer cars and parading name brands – my kids deserve better than to watch others get more benefit from my hard work!
You cannnot be so “general” to make the numbers work for your candidate. There are many factors that need to be worked in…Let people keep their own money!

Okay just called my fiance because I forgot about when out incomes get combined, that would put us at around $180K when we get married. Now that I see the chart, I sort of resent the fact that I crawled my way at grad school and now I get punished by Uncle Sam for being successful. Where is the incentive here?

It seems the only meaningful difference is at the upper income levels. The lower income groups are the least affected and yet they seem the most righteously indignant. Americans are fascinating in their obsession with non-issues. Some of the posts on this site are positively course and uncivil. In fact, in some countries they would not be permitted. You are fortunate indeed to live in a country with such freedom, and yet you take it so much for granted. You should be cautious since if you abuse it, you could very well lose it.

Check out the HARDBALL interview with
Rep. Michelle Bachmann (MN)
This woman EXEMPLIFIES why I will not be voting for McCain and Parrot!
I can’t believe the crap spewing from her mouth. She is McCarthy 2.0 fostered by the McPalin campaign. I sent $50 to her opponent El Tinklenberg and I live in VA.
To the Republican leadership, “Freedom” apparently means we’re free to think just like they do.
“Freedom of Religion” now means we’re free to be Methodist, Baptist, or Presbiterians.
We cannot let these facists take our country!

Quote
I sort of resent the fact that I crawled my way at grad school and now I get punished by Uncle Sam for being successful. Where is the incentive here?
Quote
Incentive for what?
To make more money so you can buy more chinese made crap for your McMansion?

I will gladly give up the $223 difference to not have McCain/Palin in the WH! Under McCain’s plan he is going to tax your employer paid health insurance so any “tax cuts” would probably end up being a wash.

Greenback,
Are you arguing against the concept of progressive taxation? That as one makes a higher income, that one pays a higher tax rate?

What you also need to take into account, is that under Obama you will need every penny of that money to pay for the things you buy because he is raising taxes on those that produce those goods. You my friends, will ultimately pay those taxes, not the corporations. Under McCain it is a double win. He cuts their taxes, so you don’t have to pay more at the store, and he cuts you a little extra money to boot. Under Obama, you will be lucky if you break even at the end of the day!!!

Thank you. The quintiles were too much for me, but your summary and the report made things crystal clear: McCain’s tax plan is a break for the filthy rich and leaves the middle class bearing the burden. Obama’s plan is the opposite. And why in the world would we give tax credit to global petroleum companies, who have made record profits this year?
ubu” when sarah palin sends those annual check to everyone in alaska, is it welfare? or just a bribe?

I love how right wingers, supposed lovers of the free market are actually arguing the price of goods will be determined by tax rates vs the market.

It’s clear the greatest majority of Americans, and of the middle class will receive the greatest benefit from the McCain plan. Isn’t it natural to favor keeping more of your own money in your pocket for your own use. Those that vote against there economic interests are foolhardy at best.

In my view, McCain’s policy will enourage Americans to work harder to get richer, to realize American dream, to stimulate the country’s economy.
Although I’m not earning $250,000 yet. But I admire the people who earn more than I do.
While Obama’s policy discourages us to be richer, which will NOT stimulate the country’s economy.
Posted by: golfgirlusa | Oct 19, 2008 9:20:23 PM
Whether you know it or not the middle class drives this country’s economy. If we don’t have money we don’t spend it. IF we don’t spend it the economy sucks.

I prefer a flat tax rate. I do not like the Obama plan

Greenback: “I prefer a flat tax rate. ”
Can you cite a single free, developed nation in the history of mankind that sustained itself without progressive taxation? Just curious how completely removed from reality you are (sitting right with the Communists and Utopians on the “right” answer – that has never, ever worked).

“If you make up to $18,725, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., will give you a tax cut of $65, while Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., will give you a tax cut of $567.”
if you make up to $18,725, then you’re paying at most $65 in income tax. Sen. McCain proposes to eliminate taxation on individuals making only $18,725, whereas Sen. Obama is proposing to write someone who makes up to $18,725, who pay virtually no taxes to begin with, a $500 check funded by people that actually pay taxes. That’ not a tax-cut, that’s welfare.

Concerned in OH: “Please state which specific rates are being lowered by Senator Government?”
Do your own homework. The link is in the first sentence of the post for goodness sake. Are you unable to read it yourself?

“I prefer a flat tax rate. I do not like the Obama plan”
But you do realize Obama’s plan and McCain’s both are progressive taxation?

In my view, McCain’s policy will enourage Americans to work harder to get richer, to realize American dream, to stimulate the country’s economy.
***************************************
You assume that all individuals are equal, and capable of realizing the American dream, Not all have the opportunity, not all have the intelligence, not all have the means. Face it there are many, many people that no matter how hard they work they will not succeed, they bwill allways need help through no fault of their own.

Same site
John McCain’s New Tax cuts
Allow first-year deduction of 3 and 5-year equipment, deny interest deduction (expires after 2013)
Reduce maximum corporate income tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent (phased in by 2015)
Increase the dependent exemption by two-thirds (phased in by 2016)
Convert Research and Development credit to 10 percent of wages incurred for Research and Development, make permanent
Tax the first $50,000 of withdrawls from IRAs and 401ks at 10 percent in 2008
Exempt unemployment insurance benefits from tax in 2008 and 2009 for those making less than $100,000

Ryan there is no need to make me out to be the bad guy. I am in oncology and do lots to help people all the time. I don’t believe in a welfare state. How much do you make a year Ryan C.?

I think it has been mentioned by OBAMA::that TAXING the Wealthy will pay the programs of the Middle-Class..I personally find dispute in OBAMA’s definition of MIDDLE-CLASS..and in a simplified reading of Jake Tappers BLOG..I seem to sense that McCAIN–is taxing like the 70′s…and OBAMA–is somewhere in the 60′s…there does seem to be a justification–in the term::JOBS..that this TAX “Utterance” should be happening…life is not an easy thing..SHOULD IT BE???

One thing was missing in 2011 with Obama’s plan all people from the lowest to the highest paid will be paying more for taxes with the expiration of the Bush tax plan. Big missing item, under McCain’s plan it does not expire.
So enjoy only 2 years of about where you are today on taxes under Obama unless you are in the 20%+ over $250,000 a year gross. Then the last 2 years with Obama better hope you get a huge raise to balance it all out.
Love how the media leaves this detail out! Obama tons of lies.
Want the average Joe view on Obama – hey Joe lets go to the bar tonight I buying. Joe I am out of money, can you pay for tonight I get you some other time…

Why won’t Palin release her health records.
Would depression really be a career ender now days? I mean who isn’t on drugs to get through the day.

Just because you are a doctor doesn’t mean you are smart either.
A doc is a body mechanic, it doesn’t require an intellectual.
I work with several docs and they are not the brightest bulbs in the box.
They do make more money than God though and don’t like to let go of a penny of it. So I can see how McCain would appeal to their greedy nature.

If you think Palin is not prepared or ready for the job lets put Obama to a debate with Palin, lets see who’s more prepared on the management status type of questions.
Like the idea let ABC, CNN, your favorite media outlets know. They say they are hiding her, she’s out there no one is following anything to do with the McCain campaign on the media. If only you knew…

If you think Palin is not prepared or ready for the job lets put Obama to a debate with Palin, lets see who’s more prepared on the management status type of questions:
ROFLMAO.
What are managemnet status type questions?
Palin couldn’t answer questions in her own debate and you want her to try to answer questions against Obama?
ROFLMAO

And why am I being attacked because I don’t agree with Obama’s tax plan.”
You falsely implied that progressive taxation was socialist. Then you said something about a welfare state.
“I am smart enough to be successful”
That has yet to be seen.

OK—
Why would Obama debate Palin? She is No 2, in every way possible.
The woman can barely string a coherent sentence together. I really suspect she is on meds. No wonder they won’t release her medical records.

Citizens of the top 0.1 percent: unite!

Ryan C you need to goto ABC, NBC what ever fact check website you want on the last debate, there you will learn the real truth – no lies no republican stories. The repeal of the taxes is part of Obama’s plan – but Obama plan changes by the hour, but right now that is the way it is. Oh lets not get started on death tax or gaining income from a sale of you home – those Obama is going to really get people on.
Democrats for McCain

One single reduction in tax rates in Senator Government’s proposal. I guess when Senator Government says he’s cutting 95% of taxes he meant specifically 95% of senior citizens taxes.
Because thats the only people that are getting a tax cut, not a redefined “tax cut”/big government redistributionism in the form of EITCs and refundables.
Posted by: Concerned in OH | Oct 19, 2008 9:57:33 PM
Why do you continue to post lies?

“Sounds to me if you get capital gains, you’re getting a tax increase. Regardless.”
That would be the maximum rate on the hghest income earners.
Yet again Concerned in OH resorts to lying.

I am not making up any names.What are you talking about?

I understand Democrats for McCain but how can you honestly consider him after he picked Palin, seriously, how?

Greenback said he is “in oncology” not an oncologist. If he were an oncologist, his and his fiance’s combined income would not be $180k. Which, by the way, still does qualify him for a tax increase under Obama’s plan.
The problem with the data as presented in quintiles is that Obama is proposing the increase for the top 5% not the top 20%. Likewise, if you take the time to read the report, you’ll see that Obama’s plan is better for the federal deficit than McCain’s. Please take the time to read the report – it is boring but very informative.

at the end of the day, you americans (and by americans, I mean republicans) seem to be stuck in a magical dreamland where tax cuts for everyone is a feasible way to go about addressing the situation. it’s kind of funny, really. I’m all for capitalism – lord knows, it’s the only system that works and provides a modicum of freedom, but at the end of the day, your greed will leave you with a country paralyzed by capitalistic rhetoric, incapable of functioning properly and burdened by vast amounts of debt. oh, hold on – it’s already happened – and you’re complaining about not getting a tax cut? give me a break. your children will thank you, I’m sure, for leaving them with a basketcase of a country.

Greenback
Do you notice a lack of civility? It’s common from both quarters but one side in particular is especially abrasive. It’s hard to understand given that their side is ahead in the polls. I don’t get it?

So what would make you happy about Palin? If that is your only reason to vote for Obama, then that is very sad. You are saying women in general are not worth a chance, and as Vice President it is a good oportunity to see without as much risk for anyone. And the positives about her as a candidate are better than the negatives. Guess what life is not scripted, its not on a teleprompter. I have yet to hear her say yo, or gonna which Obama seems to use quite frequently.

Tapper, I object. Clearly this means that McCain is a socialist.

So what would make you happy about Palin? If that is your only reason to vote for Obama, then that is very sad. You are saying women in general are not worth a chance, and as Vice President it is a good oportunity to see without as much risk for anyone. And the positives about her as a candidate are better than the negatives. Guess what life is not scripted, its not on a teleprompter. I have yet to hear her say yo, or gonna which Obama seems to use quite frequently.
Posted by: OK | Oct 19, 2008 10:15:13 PM
Women are worth chance, just not this hateful one. McCain screwed up picking her just admit it. (BTW I am a woman).
There are quite a few intelligent, hard working Republican women he could have picked.

read some of the information on pages 53-55… very interesting comparison of the effects of the health plans.

It seems an awful lot of folks here put an awful lot of stock in the details of these two “plans,” as if they’ll be the new tax code in effect if either one of these guys is elected. Call me crazy, but I don’t think it’s going to work that way, especially not with the Fed bill for a financial industry bail-out swelling. Seems to me, take the “plans” with a grain of salt. You’re better off sticking to tried and true rules of thumb. Republicans are more likely to cut taxes at the expense of fedearal programs and Democrats more likely to preserve federal programs and raise taxes. These “plans” will all get washed out in negotiation with Congress. (Which, remember, will almost certainly be controlled by Democrats.)

Barack Obama gets an D-Palin gets an A-for qualification for their positions.
Posted by: Mary | Oct 19, 2008 10:18:22 PM
I’d like for you to name her positions. I am curious as to what they are.

So only the wealthy get taxed more under Obama and we still a better break under Obama even if we do not….sounds pretty plain who is sharing the wealth…John is with his wealthy buddies

Palin hateful? Quite the opposite, why is it when she brings out items about Obama it is hateful. But Obama is just pointing out items about McCain.
There is a lot about Obama people outside of Chicago do not know. His drug arrest, his associations which are very near indictment. But the media does not bring up Americans should hear about these before voting.
Chicago Dem for McCain

ROFLMAO
Right wingers are too embarrassed to admit they are right wingers so they are back to pretending they are Democrats…from Chicago no less!

Palin hateful? Quite the opposite, why is it when she brings out items about Obama it is hateful. But Obama is just pointing out items about McCain.
There is a lot about Obama people outside of Chicago do not know. His drug arrest, his associations which are very near indictment. But the media does not bring up Americans should hear about these before voting.
Chicago Dem for McCain
Posted by: Dem | Oct 19, 2008 10:24:34 PM
Yeah she’s Mother Teresa….lol. That woman has caused more hatred in the 2 mos she has been on the national scene.

I never said I was a democrat. I never have been a democrat. I have always registered independent.

Why is ANYONE promising tax cuts?
We are in a war which even if it ends, immediately segues into another one.
Our economy is in the tank, but our country needs funds for the shoring up of it’s infrastructure and the protection of its shores!
MCCain says he will chop through wasted and fraudulent expenditures with an axe.
I like that!
But still….
where do you guys think money to replace tax cuts is really going to come from?
You can tax the richest just so much and just so long before they settle in and close down their businesses and shut out even more jobs because their incentive has been squashed.
You can give tax monies to those who are poor and haven’t worked… just so long as they have filed a tax form.
(I would hope Acorn isn’t involved in this strange situation….)
In Iowa, $250,000 is a lot of money to receive annually…. but in California, and New York, where the living is costly, it might not be viewed as such a windfall.
Maybe we should go back to a “flat tax”…
But “tax cuts”?
Forgeddahbout it!

What story Ryan. I said I heard he has not released his med records? Someone on here asked about Sarah Palin’s records. Coming from my POV they can be doctored anyway, medical records. Has Obama released his records?Has Biden? Has McCain?Why are you asking about Palins records and not the others.
As far as how I lean politically. I am a centrist. I have voted for democrats mostly and some republicans like Bloomberg in New York.I am not straight down ticket voter.
I thought this conversation was about taxes. Suddenly it has become people hurling insults.

Not every one, but some people may stay lazy in order to take advantage of Obama’s wealth redistribution. That way, sooner or later America’s economy will, for sure, deteriorate. This is because the more richer you become as a result of hard-studying for higher education, the more taxes will be assesed on you; and you will lose willingness to become richer.

Obama’s tax cut is really the best for the middle class up to those earning 110,000. mccain looks better from 110,000 but the only snag is that you will also be taxed for health benefits so that makes it at par with Obama’s but his tax cuts for those earning 600000 is incredible. No wonder you have all the talk-show pundits sympathetic to him. why should he have to give them tax-cuts and only 15% of Americans earn above 110,000.So mccain’s will be unfavorable to 85% of Working Americans because he is going to tax healthcare.

theres always loopholes in ANY tax law, the rich will always get richer, they will just move their money offshore.. Why woudl someone spend a billion dollars to earn $400, 000? because polticians leave themselves wiggle room to become millionaires

I am waiting Doc.

Whatever Doc…You guys are a piece of work.Thanks for posting this info Jake.
It’s been good guys. night.

Where is McCain/Palin’s medical records??????????
Let’s be fair!!!!!!
Nov. 4th = Obama/Biden08

OK
Palin only reads from a teleprompter. Not one word of what she says is her own. she is a puppet.
You don’t vote for her just because she is a woman. I am a woman and will not vote for her. She is grossly unqualified for the position.
If McCain had picked one of the many other qualified woman of achievement, I might have voted for him.
Palin is a deal breaker, pure and simple.

America, we CANNOT AFFORD A COUNTRY RUN BY OBAMA, PELOSI and REID.
THAT IS A GOVERNMENT WITH NO CHECK AND BALANCES … THAT IS A COUNTRY IN THE HANDS OF THE MOST EXTREME LIBERAL LEFT.
We are in 2 wars, in an economic mess, facing a housing and energy crisis.
We CANNOT AFFORD A COUNTRY RUN BY THE QUESTIONABLE OBAMA, AND THE INEFFECTIVE PELOSI AND REID.
LOOK AT THEIR RECORDS.
AMERICA, WHEN IN DOUBT, ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION AND VOTE COUNTRY FIRST.
VOTE MCCAIN/PALIN FOR LOVE OF COUNTRY.

We are in 2 wars, in an economic mess, facing a housing and energy crisis.
We CANNOT AFFORD A COUNTRY RUN BY THE QUESTIONABLE OBAMA, AND THE INEFFECTIVE PELOSI AND REID.
LOOK AT THEIR RECORDS.
AMERICA, WHEN IN DOUBT, ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION AND VOTE COUNTRY FIRST.
VOTE MCCAIN/PALIN FOR LOVE OF COUNTRY.
Posted by: No Country under obama, reid and pelosi | Oct 19, 2008
Why are we facing two wars? Could it be the REPUBLICANS got us into them? This economic mess wasn’t created in the last year. There were signs before that and nobody took any notice. The Democrats have been in power, what 2 years? What about the other 6? Who was in charge then?

Posted by: Kirsten Powers | Oct 19, 2008 10:56:44 PM
Before you start spouting ethics, why don’t you research that your Presidential candidate and VP candidate both have ethics violations.

Well, if the ONLY reason to vote for a candidate is whether or not you’d pay lower taxes, the choice will be much simpler now wouldn’t it? I, personally, have other issues in mind.

I didn’t realize people making under $19,000 actually even paid $500 in taxes. Sounds more like a government check than a tax cut.

WestCoast: Your analysis is simply wrong. “The majority of Americans would benefit under McCain’s tax plan.” Did you read the article? The upper 2%, the ultra rich would benefit under McCains tax plan – just the opposite of the people who McCain and Sarah Palin have been pandering to. And hasn’t the latest economic collapse finally proven that trickle down economics (or voodoo economics) doesn’t work? At all? There is virtually nothing in the article to support your claims. Only 2% of Americans make over $200,000 a year. The average for WHITE American families is close to $70,000. It is far lower for Latino and Black families.

Someone here posted the opinion that we already got a tax increase because of the bailout.
$700 billion is a lot of money, no doubt. But tell me – would you rather shore up the market and get credit moving again…or send a check to everyone so they can fill up their SUV’s a few times? Cuz even a few extra grand wouldn’t save most people who are upside down in mortgages they should not have signed.
If we’re gonna heal the economy, moving houses is part of the equation. Everyone can point fingers between banks, gov’t and mortgagees later.
On a side note, my solution to the housing market…suspend tax law that prohibits deducting loss on the sale of your primary residence. You can do it for investment properties, but not primary. Let people sell for the loss and give them a tax break. But we gotta start moving houses again…

jpt,
thank you so much for this article, it is plain, and anyone who wants to be informed about this tax tale mccain is telling on obama-can be informed.
do another article as plain as this on the healthcare plan.
my spouse,a nurse, came from work today almost in tears, because of trying to explain the difference in the healtcare plan of obama and mccain.
after making it as plain as it could be explained. one of the nurses, just chose to live in her ignorance. she said, i don’t believe that about the mccain healthcare plan.
now this is a rn, who makes a salary that she would benefit from everything obama has to offer. and would continue in her poorness under mccain’ plan.
she does not care.
once again jpt, thanks for the article, it is very clear.
it is really sad and to bad, to see fellow american’ refusing to see the truth.

Jake Tapper writes:
“”If you’re in the top quintile, making above $110,000, McCain will give you a tax cut of $12,144 while Obama will raise your taxes $4,600 more. (To suss this out a little more — the Obama campaign says it will not raise taxes on individuals making more than $200,000, or couples making more than $250,000.)”"
Jake Tapper:
What is this supposed to mean? It is very confusing. Could clarify please?
Thanks.

Incomplete –
Ya, where’s the welfare checks for those who don’t pay no taxes?
You know, the ACORN voters.

B.O.B. – thanks for the laughs. I didn’t realize nurses were hurting so badly…living paycheck to paycheck? lol
People and politicians blame insurance companies for all the ills of healthcare. Nevermind the high cost of care vis-a-vis extraordinary salaries. I’ll vote for any candidate who takes on the healthcare delivery system. Forget insurance…get healthcare down to manageable ‘out of pocket’ commodity.

Incomplete –
Ya, where’s the welfare checks for those who don’t pay no taxes?
You know, the ACORN voters.
Posted by: Captain America | Oct 19, 2008 11:38:42 PM
Please show me where people are getting this welfare stuff from and those who don’t pay taxes.

I guess it is okay to redistribute wealth to the wealthy but socialist to give money to the poor.

fishmonger,
well now you know- and nurses just like a lot of other working people who are trying to educate children, care for parents, and having a little something for retirement for themselves, are often just a paycheck away from being financially devastated.
and for any nurse, (such as the one I was relating the story to) to believe they will fair better under a mccain tax or healthcare plan, is foolishness.
i find it sad that you found something to laugh about it what i wrote.
but you are welcome for the laugh i provided you.

well northernlights,
where is the conservative groups analysis?
since this one listed in jpt’ article cannot be trusted.

To anyone on this blog who’s unclear where the money for these proposed tax cuts will come from this one’s for you. Obama is a big supporter of the FairTax Plan. This would repeal the current income payroll tax that your employer snatches out of your check, and sends to Uncle Sam. Most European nations went to it years ago and have never gone back.
Over there it’s referred to as VAT (go google it). FairTax and VAT function in much the same manner. The tax is a consumption tax applied at the wholesale level and is passed down as part of the price to the end consumer. So the more you can afford to buy, the more tax you pay.
It fundamentally restructures the tax code to generate hundreds of billions of dollars more in tax revenue from people who “shelter” their incomes, drug dealers, the filthy rich, racketeers, who don’t pay traditional income tax because their income is from non-traditional sources. Unlike “Joe” – “the plumber” wage earner, who automatically gets a withholding tax taken out before he gets a dime. By instituting long overdue social reforms, such as universal healthcare you remove the burden of medicaid, medicare by default, and you save billions of tax dollars. Which by the way, leaves plenty of money left over to rebuild schools, roads, fund job training, and provide bonafide college tuition assistance in the form of tax credits to untold millions of Americans and to significantly pay down the national debt.
That’s the hatchet folks.
He can leave the scalpeling to congress, it’s what their good at. Don’t worry, DOD will always get their cut, don’t want to mess with the guys in uniform with all the guns, that protect you while you sleep right? But NASA can kiss a significant portion of their funding goodbye, no doubt, something else Obama has alluded to.
And there’s plenty of other non-national security interest organizations, and governmental departments where NASA came from that will all have their funding cut or reigned in under a corporate modeled “pay for performance” funding structure. Of course he can’t get into this stuff on the campaign trail.
What? And give the republicans time to pick over it, slice and dice, mince and extrude out the parts they don’t want their constituents to know about, only to regurgitate the unsavory bits in attack ad after attack ad for the next 2 1/2 weeks. Think people, think. The only thing that could stop these reforms would be congress.
If I were you, I’d pray for a Democratic supermajority. But then again maybe you think that you can somehow buck the odds, miraculously find a way to send your kid to college while your bagging groceries at Walmart, just trying to make enough to pay your bills and buy food. That’s republican non-sense. Look around you. Where’s all the prosperity they promised you all these years.
Unfortunately, their still selling that “you could be a rock star too under our system” philosophy. Problem is if you don’t turn out to be one of the lucky few with the good fortune to become one, there’s only one place for you to go under their system. Taxation and credit debt servitude, for a lifetime, to the ones that did.
It’s your life. Think for yourself, or just don’t vote.
Believe me, you’ll be doing all of us voting to make a difference A HUGE FAVOR!

Call it trickle-down economics, but what do you think happens when you take this much money out of the top of the economic food chain? People making 6 figures won’t be forced to food stamps. But guess what – this cuts into their disposable income.
Where do you think the ‘other half’ of America drops disposable income? Retail, remodeling, higher-end services. Hmmm – even if they’re not directly hiring employees, their spending supports the kind of jobs people want.
Where do people making $18k spend their disposable income (if you consider $500 disposable?) Gas, McDonalds, Wal-Mart. Yeah, let’s grow those areas of the economy.

Wallet
Ignorance is bliss. The economy runs on spending. If they give money to the rich they spend the same and less money gets pumped into the economy. Give money to the middle class and poor and they will spend it on things they need, or spend it doing things they wouldn’t other wise. Anyway God forbid someone can eat an extra meal because they got a tax cut. The problem is all McCain plans are half bake and he had a extra 2 months to develop them. Jobs will ultimately save the economy and Obama was the first to think about creating jobs to fix infrastructure, something this country needs with bridges across the country collapsing.

B.O.B. – yeah, I’m still laughing. I have friends in the profession and know the demand continues to drive up salaries. For those already in the field, I know a lot who don’t like the excessive hours (from labor shortage), but they like the $ that goes along with it.
To be fair, I know some ‘struggling’ financially. But it isn’t because of their profession or pay. It’s the same disease others suffer – living beyond their means. Big house or car…or both. I don’t care what you do for a living, but don’t act surprised when these habits catch up to you. I know people making half of what I earn…and live higher on the hog. Good for them.
I’ve got no problem with people seeking more of the good life. Fine – achieve the level…and enjoy. Don’t put the cart before the horse and wait for a handout…

Sweetie,
If you think “trickle DOWN” doesn’t work too well, just wait until you get the opportunity to try out the “trickle UP” kind….
You’ll be sorely sorry… because aside from the laws of gravity, there’s nothing T O trickle up!
Posted by: hmmmm | Oct 20, 2008 12:07:59 AM
First of all I am not your “sweetie”. I am smart enough to know that is a dig at Obama.
What’s your plan for the economy? Obviously the trickle down method hasn’t worked. Enlighten us all with your infinite wisdom on the economy.

B.O.B I wish Tapper could provide a comparison on health care programs, but the McCain plan is so sketchy that even the Kaiser Foundation, which is excellent, could not do a decent comparison. There are some glaring differences, though, that will impact millions of Americans a) the control would shift to insurance companies, not employers, and insurance companies could deny coverage based on any criterion they chose. The most commonly used are a history of cancer (for example, melanoma) being overweight/obese or any history of mental illness – including use of anti-depressants. b) there is no provision for children in the McCain plan – completely opposite to the Obama plan and c) this one surprised me – there is no help for small business owners. Obama’s plan includes a refundable tax credit of up to 50% of premiums.
The McCain campaign, for reasons unknown, are the only campaign in recent memory which has been unable to estimate the cost of their plan. They have had 24 months to work on this. It seems reasonable to expect to know what we would pay – from prescription drugs to an epidemic of bankruptcy to the number of deaths of Americans who have been denied coverage and cannot pay for care.

well we don’t live above our means.
we saw this economic mess coming and paid our house off. because we had saved the money.
i don’t see any nurses looking for handouts.
i do know the healthcare deal will be a long and hard one to solve, but it is for sure the next shoe to drop.
and i think all mccain knows is war.
what he is proposing will not help.

Posted by: hmmmm | Oct 20, 2008 12:07:59 AM
I am still waiting for your economic plan. Why the silence?

i consider our working people of this country, part of the infrastructure.
I do believe it is the working class or middle class people of this country
that have been making the wheels of this country and abroad go around.
and the powers that be have just about broke us.
we need some real help, and i think we need to give obama a chance to do it.
he really can’t do any worst that what we have right now. there is not much left.
when john mccain and palin stop talking about ayers, birth certificates, an any of the other distractions they can come up with. and start telling me what they will do differently than bush,i will listen.
why do we need to hear what mccain will do differently than bush?
because mccain has been in lock step with bush 90% of the time over these last eight years.
time for a change.
mccain does not look like bush
mccain does not talk like bush
but when it comes to mccains policies
he’s bush

jwench -
Why don’t you just use google, instead of asking silly questions?
IL
- High sales tax
- High property taxes
- Relatively high income tax
The only small taxes in IL = thumbtacks!

Wallet
Your taking a minority and expanding it to an entire America culture. Most people spend because they need to. If you have a problem with walmart take it up with republicans because they hate unions cause they think it is socialist as anybody that disagrees with republicans. They called MLK a socialist too. My analogy was pointing out your attempts to demonize the working class like we are stealing from the rich to feed are habits to spend uncontrollably. And again you forgot to mention that rich people spending will stay flat, they’re in the business of making money and they will do whatever is necessary to maintain that money. The middle class and the poor see it differently, they need the money to do things instrumental to daily life. Debt has become a disease in the middle class and giving money to the rich on the backs of working family didn’t work like Bush thought it would and now we see the result.

fishmonger,
dont’ you mean, thumbtaxes
just to make your saying fit.
it has to be the only tacks=thumbtacks
or it has to be taxes, well you know.

jwench -
Why don’t you just use google, instead of asking silly questions?
IL
- High sales tax
- High property taxes
- Relatively high income tax
The only small taxes in IL = thumbtacks!
Posted by: FishMonger | Oct 20, 2008 12:29:05 AM
I was asking a legitimate question. Don’t get your knickers in a twist. I don’t need to know about Illinois taxes, I live in PA.
I asked because there are other states that do not pay other taxes but have high sales taxes.

working people!
read obama’ healthcare and tax plan
and then read mccain healtcare and tax plan
and see which one you would fair better under.
check it out for joe the plumber also.
he would do better with obama too.
fox news and mccain app. to joe for obama causing him to lose his privacy.
“all i want to do, is go to work, but the reporters on my lawn, are keeping me from it”-said joe the plumber.
this am. i saw joe on fox news, doing the “we’ll be right back” line.
obama wants to help joe the plumber,
mccain and co. and fox want to use joe.
joe will try to stretch his 15minutes out until november 5th,
hey, mccain picked palin, maybe he has a place for joe the plumber.
goodnight.

one last comment,
while you are adding to your reading list.
read “Hot,Flat and Crowded” by Thomas L. Friedman
easy to understand, (plain) and so true.
goodnight

hmmmm
You wouldn’t know pander if it hit you in the face.

hmmmm
You wouldn’t know pander if it hit you in the face.
Posted by: MM | Oct 20, 2008 12:58:10 AM
Yeah like picking Palin wasn’t pandering to women. I find it insulting that he chose to do that. She sure as hell is no Hillary Clinton.

McCain’s kitchen sink strategy seems to be less effective then Clinton’s. Maybe she stayed in as long as she had to toughen up Obama.

People of Ohio – Vote MCCAIN/PALIN and send a message to:
ACORN – that voter fraud is NOT OKAY
Vote MCCAIN/PALIN and send a message to your Supreme Court and your Secretary of State that VOTER FRAUD IS NOT OKAY …
Vote MCCAIN/PALIN and send a message to your media friends at CNN and MSNBC that MEDIA OBAMAMANIA is NOT OKAY ..
Vote MCCAIN/PALIN and send a message to the rest of America that a country run by Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, with no check and balance in place IS NOT OKAY …
PEOPLE OF OHIO, WE HAVE FAITH IN YOU TO DELIVER FOR LOVE OF COUNTRY ..

“Ok it is official.I would do better under McCain’s plan.
I was voting for McCain anyway but this seals the deal.I make $90K.
Thanks for putting the figures up Jake.”
Same here. If I get a raise this year I’ll get a nice tax increase under Obama, so some lazy complainer can enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Yes, Obama has to tax some people more, so he can give hand-outs to the 40% of Americans who pay no income taxes.
Remember the speech Michelle Obama gave last April during the primaries when she was talking about pie?
She said that those who have a big piece of the pie now will have to give up part of their piece in order for those who have no pie to have some.
I don’t know what it is about those two and their pie, but they sure talk about pie a lot.

Yes, Obama has to tax some people more, so he can give hand-outs to the 40% of Americans who pay no income taxes.
Posted by: Lee | Oct 20, 2008 1:50:34 AM
I have seen that statement posted repeatedly. Please show me where you and the others got this from. I have asked repeatedly and noone has yet to post a link.

And how come “troopergate” was reviewed with the speed of a gazelle when the trial in which Obama might be also be involved…. REZKO…. is being delayed til a day or so before the election?
posted by hmmmm Oct 20, 2008 2:15:57 AM
THere were 14….yes 14 Republicans and 4 democrats on the panel ask them.

Anyone who would vote for Obama would have to be crazy. He will do nothing but further the lazy, welfare state. I used to do taxes and was so sicken by the fact that I paid in 18,000+ in taxes and others who paid in $100 and hardly worked got $3,500 in refunds (using Earned Income Credits, etc.)

Greg h: “As you work hard and earn more money, Obama’s taxes go up and up.”
That’s true of McCain as well. We have a progressive tax system, and he’s not proposing abolishing that. Do you understand that?
The difference here is not the principle, it’s the degree to which that principle is applied.

So, McCain can buy my vote for 2.9 million annually for 4 years? I won’t take a promissory note…strictly cash.
On the other hand, since no one is handing out millions and its unlikely that i’ll be making 2.9 in the next couple of weeks…its a better bet to go with whats not in the 0.1 percentile.

“Earth to Jake, Earth to Jake”: Financial Crisis….a bailout of umpteen Trillion…all bets are off….recession…spread the wealth around.
Jake, neither Obama nor McCain will be able to stick to any of the economic plans they have been promoting. It is a new world and who ever is President is going to have a difficult time doing anything.
That neither have said they will have to totally scrap what they have been pushing is a farce to the American people.

1) The whole basis for the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy was the Reagan “trickle down” theory, i.e., the wealthy create jobs for the rest of us. Close to 750,000 Americans have lost their jobs since the beginning of the year. “Trickle down” doesn’t seem to be working.
2) I get sick, particularly in this environment, of hearing the contention that income is the result of “hard work.” I know a lot of low income people who work a good deal harder than most of the thieves on Wall Street or the coupon-clipping trust funders.

I think maybe McCain needs some good reading material to help him understand what “socialism” is.
Socialism- Basically REALLY big govt. Also no privatization- government owns all land, property and businesses. The government manages basically everything in the country. It completely regulates the financial market, steps in to pour funds here and there and what not.
Obama is a socialist? Coming from the man who wanted the government to bail-out the mortgage thing with taxpayer’s money, I would like McCain to go and open a dictionary.

@Grey Matter – Perhaps you need to understand Socialism better.
Socialists believe that wealth should not be concentrated in the possession of a few members of a society (”few” being a relative term), and they believe that only the government should be able to determine how much is “enough” and how much is “too much.” The Socialists view it as the duty of the wealthy to support the non-wealthy.
“Spreading the wealth around” as Obama put it aptly.
All of the people (Ayers, Rev. Wright, et al) that surrounded Obama are Marxist communists believing in a Socialist agenda.

Mike NC,
I dont think Clinton increased income taxes during his term.
Then the US economy was not in a slowdown as it is now.
If Obama wants to raise taxes (on anyone) in this economy, it is a bad idea.

Greg h
Thats not true..
John McCain giving $200 Billion to the Rich and Compaines doesnt create a single new job…
Say its walmart that gets $30m from that $200 billion dollars of our money mccain is giving away thats not going to create one new job sure walmart will be $30m richer but no new jobs will be created..
The middle class are treading water (dept Labor) if there treading water they are not buying so Walmart wont hire more people..
Giving Tax breaks to the middle class..Cashing them up.. Then they will spend it..Which will create new demand and then which will help walmart and they need extra staff.. Its not rocket science..
Its just how economic stimulus works.
Baracks Plan puts the tax rates for those making above $250 000 back to where they were before Bush’s tax cuts. The same rates that where in place under Clinton.
John McCains tax plan ads $3-$3.6 trillion dollars to the national debt.
(Washington post has different figure to the Tribune comp)
Baracks is paid for by the the rise on those making above $250 000.

Here’s a little reminder for everyone. Between 2000 and 2004 Barak Obama and his wife gave less then 1 Percent to charities on their 1.2 MILLION DOLLAR salary, far below the national average. While the McCain’s gave well ABOVE the national average. I guess spreading the wealth for Obama means everyone else’s money BUT HIS!!!!! And anybody who believes the rich will pay more taxes under Obama just has no clue and lives in a fantasy world. FACT, Jimmy Carter tried the same thing and the rich pulled their money out of the economy and placed it in TAX FREE treasury bonds and into offshore accounts. Inflation spiraled and interest rates on mortgages rose to 16 Percent. The rich paid LESS in taxes then any other time in the history of the US. So, if it makes you feel better to think the rich are getting screwed, go ahead, but it’s just not going to happen, and the middle class will me screwed again. Learn some history before you vote for a fantasy!!!!
If you’re in the fourth quintile, making between almost $66,000 and about $110,000, McCain gives you a $1,487 tax cut, Obama will give you a $1,264 tax cut.
If you’re in the top quintile, making above $110,000, McCain will give you a tax cut of $12,144 while Obama will raise your taxes $4,600 more. (To suss this out a little more — the Obama campaign says it will not raise taxes on individuals making more than $200,000, or couples making more than $250,000.)

Greenback,
Obama reported accounts with Morgan Chase Private Client Asset Management, an elite firm that deals only with the rich, as well as a host of retirement accounts, some in the name of his wife, Michelle.
Because the required disclosure forms allow candidates to report their assets in ranges, such as $250,001 to $500,000, Obama’s net worth at the end of 2007 — not including his home and other nonfinancial assets — was pegged between $2,022,016 and $7,356,000.
Tax-free income
By far the largest account, valued between $1 million and $5 million, was in the Northern Municipal Money Market Fund. It generated tax-free interest in 2007 of between $15,001 and $50,000.
Northern Trust “has built a well-deserved reputation around being the banker for the überrich,” says Andrew Richards, a Morningstar equity analyst. In a report on the Chicago company’s stock, he writes, “The firm estimates it serves roughly 20% of the richest families profiled annually in the Forbes 400.”
Obama the tax dodger isn’t spreading his wealth with anyone but himself.

For someone who likes to paint his opponent as a “socialist”, I think John McCain’s “let’s spend $300 billion of tax payers’ money to buy up and renegotiate mortgages!” sounds an awful lot like the definition of socialism he is using on Obama. Those who live in glass houses…

Let’s just ask one question.
What is wrong for the government to tax less from everyone?
According Jake’s numbers, McCain is the only one who gives everyone tax cut.
Zero raises taxes on anyone/couples making more than $110K – not-so-good-middle-class income.

Michelle: “Umm. so under Obama $250K really means $110K? Because he said he wasn’t going to raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K. ”
No. You just don’t understand how this works.
In that quintile (top 20% of wage earners), the AVERAGE is an increase of $4,600.
That doesn’t mean EVERYONE in that group will get a tax increase. Some of them will be getting a cut, some of them no change, and some an increase. It’s the AVERAGE of all of those that’s an increase of $4,600.
For example, say you’ve got five people, three earning less and getting a $1000 tax cut, one earning a bit more who has no change in his taxes, and one earning a lot more who’s going to get a $26,000 tax increase. The average for that group is a $4600 tax increase – but only one of them, the one earning the most, is actually getting an increase. The others are getting cuts or no change.
Get it?

The real problem w/ Obama’s tax plan is it’s fictional. What I mean by this is he won’t do it. You think he’s actually going to cut taxes when he gets in? Hah I say! When has he EVER cut taxes in the past? He’s only raised them! Believing Obama is like believing that your drunk uncle will stay sober at your family reunion. Or that your spouse really won’t cheat on you again after he/she has already done it five times. It’s amazing how you liberals are falling for this!!

Jake Tapper: why does the media allow the candidates to buy our votes? These tax cut one-ups are a destructive contest to appeal to voters’ most selfish desires: which candidate puts the most money or benefits in my pocket?
Rather than allow the candidates to dictate the rules of the race, the media should hold them to a higher standard. For example, we have $10 trillion in debt. Why shouldn’t taxes remain the same, or go up across the board, to pay for all of this overspending?
Instead, the media seems to be content with the one-upsmanship vote buying by both campaigns. It really is another Iraq war-type failure of the news media.

Not only are you facts wrong, but you are dilibertly misleading your readers….again. You and Obama are just, well, lying. Call it what it is welfare. When you give from one to another is is socialism or commonly called welfare.

Regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, it all comes down to this.
If the politicians truly believe that higher taxes are bad, then they have the power to lower them.
If the politicians truly believe the deficit is bad, they alone have the ability to retire it.
Why do people in both Houses not pay Social Security like you and I are forced to pay?
Why do they have a health plan that any of us would absolutely love to have with no co-pay on their end?
Why are they all rich to a point that most of us would enjoy?
How is it they have a retirement plan that pays them over 140K a year for twenty years of self engrandisement?
There is a great article written about the 545 people who actually run this country.
Congress, Senate, President and the Supremes.
How are 300 million people divided by the rhetoric of so few that bait us against each other and suck the prosperity out of our lives and burden us with taxes that take until sometime in April to earn before we earn a dime for ourselves?
The real questions should be these.
Why are there not term limits on all national politicians? Two terms and you move on never to hold office again.
Why are using funds from the govt to support campaigns both legal and moral? You want to win, then you use your money or donations.
Why can a politician run for a different office than the one he holds and if he loses he can go back to the one he was trying to leave? You toss your hat into the ring, you lose, you lose both the office you were vying for and the one you were trying to vacate.
Why is Hilary now 20 million in debt and Obama is trying to swing some dough her way to pay off a debt she incurred? But that cuts both ways for both parties.
We fought a war over taxation once. But it seems now with the two party system and the good ole boy system in Washington it matters not who we elect, because it’s all a dog an pony show to get rich and gain power for the select few.
If we want all this nonsense to go away, we need only become a united voice and throw out the scoundrels and wastrels who squander our taxes to empower themselves.
As long as we argue about Obama and Mccain, we never focus on the real problem.
It’s called government.