Cheney: Uncut and Uncompromising

I WWII it wasn’t ‘Water boarding’, it was taking them out in the woods & shooting them. All this under Roosevelt. Of course they did worse to us – that why we did it. Water boarding get info from terrorists…Sometimes Necessary Unfortunately.

That was an inauspicious note to end on, Cheney expressing confidence in the Obama security team.

That man is as plotting and duplicitous as the devil himself. We all know it wasn’t Bush’s staggering intellect behind the decisions that led to our dismal state of affairs. It was the man behind the curtain, that “burgess meredith_penguin” looking guy with the popeye squint.

“I WWII it wasn’t ‘Water boarding’, it was taking them out in the woods & shooting them. All this under Roosevelt.”
Yes and they were called war crimes.
“Of course they did worse to us – that why we did it.”
Great, now right wingers want to emulate the Nazis.
“Water boarding get info from terrorists…Sometimes Necessary Unfortunately.”
Why stop with terrorists?
Why not have waterboarding legal as part of criminal interrogations?

No there is a difference between the genocide of 6 million Jews and the “total war” it took to bring the Nazis and Tojo regime to heel.
If someone doesn’t realize that! – it is they that don’t have the moral compass of a snake, and your support of America (in what role in the world, I wonder??)doesn’t mean much

wow. I have never felt very strongly about President Bush (tend to like him a bit), but this man is just evil. I have read a lot about him but this is my first time watching his interviews. I watched the debate four years ago, but only remember it barely. Now I see what people are talking about. He is arrogant, hateful looking and just looks downright evil. That thing Bush said about being able to look into people eyes etc… Wow, this guy!! i’m still disturbed by this interview even though it has finished playing. Compare it to Bush’s interview. He talks like the president, acts like it and snaps back like he is… something, I don’t know what. Thank God he was not actually elected President and thank god Pres Bush made it safe and sound.
“they don’t have the same rights as American citizens???” are you serious?? This from the team that claims to have gone to Iraq to ‘liberate’ the people? They are human!! All humans should have equal rights in the eyes of the law, regardless of their citizenship. Dear readers of this blog, I hope you don’t subscribe to that kind of thought regardless of your political affiliation.

Then the question DA truth raises still needs to be answered,
put another way – why wasn’t Truman and all our WWII generals executed for war crimes and the Hiroshima incineration?
Back to you, Rev Wright.

Another moral question – this one from current events.
You’re a rural Pakistani tribesman and you’re fighting the Taliban. They shot your chief and beheaded his assistants. (Behind the scenes they beat your daughter for going to school, whipped your wife bloody for showing skin, and sodomized your brother).
They just dug up your chief, hung him up high and insulted his body and your honor in every way.
Are you intimidated or are you enraged?
If the latter, are you sure who has the high moral ground?

Khalid Sheik Mohammed’s interrogation resulted in very good, actionable intelligence. I’d like to see you dispute this — even though it mostly still top secret.
The cell structure of Al Qaeda was busted it is now built on the local subsidiary model, which is rather easily infiltrated by friendlies, Algerian to Zanisbar

Da Truth:
The but he did it too argument is petty and a waste of time. I was not alive during Roosevelt’s time and I can do nothing about what has already happened. But we are all living through the present with an oppurtunity to speak up now and set a precedent for future generations, a positive one not a negative one. Using someone else as a justification for current actions is an excuse plain and simple. It is passing the buck on for our own actions so that we do not have to think about it. The US has a position of power in the world and should be leading by example, not becoming the bully.

The cell structure of Al Qaeda was busted? Give me a break. Al Qaeda and cells of terrorism are flourishing like crazy throughout the globe.

“Then the question DA truth raises still needs to be answered,
put another way – why wasn’t Truman and all our WWII generals executed for war crimes and the Hiroshima incineration?”
Because we won the war.

It is sad that this country has been led to such levels of paranoia that people don’t think they would survive without things like ‘intelligence’, ‘war on this thing or that’ etc. The more you push that line of survival, the harder its going to get for future generations to ever be/feel safe. Have you realized that you are destroying your own freedom and liberty? And I don’t understand what you mean by ‘you liberals’ and you this… Don’t you realize those sort of things don’t mean much anymore.
Anyways I am far too young to be exposing myself to this sort of hatefulness, so I will stop reading the posts by people here. Discussions here can be very interesting but this is not one of those times. I would hate to be brainwashed by those who are themselves brainwashed to sad levels. THANK GOD that there is a generation of people who will live to inherit this country who seem to have more sense than some of those who are presently populating it.
Looking forward to the day we can finally inherit this country….

“Yes, kat, and being broken as fast as they come into being.”
That wasn’t the case with the Mumbai massacre. Furthermore, the subject was of torture and the progress you’re claiming can’t reasonably be attributed to Shiekh Mohammed being tortured. Good Day.

“Not that it saved a million GIs and probably million of Japanese, civilian and military from the destruction, disease and starvation of a prolonged siege (Proof – see Okinawa and Iwo Jima run-ups)”
Spoken like someone who learned their WW2 history from John Wayne.

“Excuse me, when in the last 25 years has there been ARAB outrage, Muslim outrage at any captive, civilian or military, of the Islamist terrorist?????”
Two Islamic militant groups, Hezbollah and Hamas, issued strongly worded condemnations yesterday of the videotaped beheading of American civilian Nick Berg in Iraq.
Lebanon’s Hezbollah and the militant Palestinian group Hamas, labelled terrorist organizations by the US, said the slaying was un-Islamic”
And those are the militants.

“Al Qaeda structure broken, new cells and subsidiaries infiltrated”
Last throes of the the insurgency?
BTW smaller local cells not connected to a larger global structure will be alot harder to infiltrate, track down and disrupt.
“working with dozens of governments throughout the world to stem the threat”
Too bad the Bush admin wasted about 3 years of cooperation telling the world our way or the highway to say nothing of the damage he has done to world relations and our standing as a moral beacon.

Excuse me you give me the lame excuses of Hamas and Hezbollah, did they REALLY tell their friends to obey the commandments. Where did they strike against their straying brethren? Even in Iraq, the Iranian Special groups and Mahdi Army the real siblings of the above did not strike against Al Qaeda, they killed innocent Sunnis and any govt figures. It took the Anbar Sunni awakening to blast away at the beheaders, right? Right!!!??

“strongly worded condemnations”
like “That’s not the Bin Laden I know”, “Zarqawi has insisted on being a divisive figure” (Get it divis-ive, beheading, never mind), “It is a sad and painful day for terrorism when something like this happens”

You asked for it robert b and I gave it to you.

You have given me what? Talk, talk, talk.
I’ve given facts and history and that action is worth ten thousand words because omission can be much worse in the face of real evil ideologies of the 20th and now the 21 century.
That is real scary to the leftist in his ivory tower.

“You have given me what? Talk, talk, talk.”
You asked for 1 example of outrage.
I gave you several.
Now you move the goalposts.

Yes since Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the chief operational planner, the interrogation did puncture the cell organizations he communicated with, and the planning strategies he implemented which include logistics, training, financing, communications.
One should remember that KSM’s nephew Ramzi Yousef, planned and executed the first WTC bombing in 1993 (He’s still in prison too by the way). So he and his family were very good at what they do.
Mumbai. Yes a new operation, but not a new but a really old organization – the Kashmir thing has been going on long before Bin Laden was born. But as far as comparison to an Al Qaeda operation, look and see they needed dependence on Pakistani govt resources (that of course is another can of worms) and needed the subtefuge of hopefully rogue Pakistani agencies for logistics and training.

A final note perhaps on purple hearts.
I meant of course that those purple hearts medals created in the spring of 1945 were not used up for many years.
500,000 advance order meant for the invasion of Japan. That was my point.
The millions of Japanese who would have died from starvation and disease from a prolonged siege would of course have had the honor of the Emperor not medals, but fortunately Hirohito and his imperial aides finally talked sense into the General Staff after Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Read Madeline Albright’s “Memo to the President Elect”. The CoC receives scary memos all the time like the Presidential Daily Briefing of August 6 (coincidentally Hiroshima day) 2001 (8 months into Bush administration, Clinton’s CIA man held over but Atty Gen just confirmed). In retrospect it looks pretty damning Al Qaeda determined to strike, planes, WTC even mentioning KSM nephew Ramzi Yousef.
One problem, where were the terrorists?
Already in the US. How?
Two problem, access to flight training, financing and anonymous travel and communications. How?
The 20th terrorist, Zacarias Moussaoui had been detained for suspicious activities but his computer not searched until after. How? Why?
The answer is the “wall” between intelligence, prosecution, and foreign action. Without it, proactive is only a word, only a hope not a reality. The Patriot Act and revised FISA changed that.

“Some myths aren’t worth writing down. Yeah the Russians whose forces were concentrated a continent away,”
The Russians beat the Japanese earlier in the war. Its where Zukov “made his bones”.
They also invaded Manchuria and some Japanese islands in the middle of the atomic bombings.
“the Russians whose navy Japan blew away a hundred years before”
That was 40 years earlier.
Gee based on that I guess the Americans could never stand up to a Japanese Navy that decimated them 4 years earlier.
“and in 1945 the USSR had nothing in the Pacific.”
The Russians were planning on invading Japan before we did.

“The Russians were planning on invading Japan before we did”
With what, fishing boats??
But forget the Russian version of D-day.
Move back a step – Shipping 5 million men, armaments, supplies over one or two railroad lines thru Siberia??

Wikipedia
“By August 1945, the Pacific Fleet had already had two cruisers, one flagship, ten destroyers, two torpedo boats, 19 patrol boats, 78 submarines, ten minelayers, 52 minesweepers” Earlier there had been a transfer of “More than 140,000 sailors from the Pacific Fleet were incorporated in the rifle brigades and other units on the Western Front”

Now we know what the W stands for.
George Waterboard Bush

A man with big time business connections in the military/industrial complex should not be making decisions that create war (and profits). The bottom line justifies the means.

robert b
no revisionist dogma or B.S. will save Bush & Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfewitz etc.
You ‘know’ what they ‘knew’ and it was wrong and your being foolish, like Bush & Cheney you’ll say anything to deny the truth of the errors and malfeasance of the Iraq war fiasco.

“zhukov rep as general from nazi front. there was no “early” victory over japan, they weren’t at war.”
Zhukov left the dangerous environment of Moscow to command the First Soviet Mongolian Army Group, and saw action against the Japanese on the Manchurian border (1938-1939). What began as a routine border skirmish—the Japanese testing the resolve of the Soviets to defend their territory—rapidly escalated into a full-scale war, the Japanese pushing forward with 80,000 troops, 180 tanks and 450 aircraft.
Zhukov requested major reinforcements and on August 15, 1939 he ordered what seemed at first to be a conventional frontal attack. However, Zhukov had held back two tank brigades, which he, in a daring and entirely successful manouvere, then ordered to advance around both flanks of the battle. Supported by motorized artillery and infantry, the two mobile battle groups encircled the 6th Japanese army and captured their vulnerable supply areas. Within several days the Japanese troops were defeated. For this operation Zhukov was awarded the title of the Hero of the Soviet Union. Outside of the Soviet Union, however, it remained little-known, as by this time World War II had begun in Europe. Zhukov’s pioneering use of mobile armour went unheeded by the west, and in consequence the German Blitzkrieg twelve months later came as a great surprise.
Promoted to full general in 1940 Zhukov was briefly chief of STAVKA before a disagreement with Stalin led to him being replaced in June by Marshal Boris Shaposhnikov (who was in turn replaced by Alexander Vasilevsky in November).