UAW: Union Workers Should Be Given Credit for Concessions

I’m none too thrilled about bailing out some high school drop out’s $60 an hour assembly line job. The UAW needs to be abolished before the US car buying public is paying $75,000 for a sub-compact car to repay the US car buying public’s loan to the automakers.

J (Jackass?) Pryor, they do not make $60/hr. Get the facts straight, would ya?!?! The hourly wage is somewhere in th high 20′s with healthcare and retirement taking it to around $40. I think the Asian automakers pay about the same.

Right now the unions are looking a lot more serious and compassionate about the economic woes of the auto industry than the auto industry execs, who come off pretty transparantly as interested primarily in their own wealth and comfort.

I WORK FOR A SUPPLER FOR GM I DON’T MAKE 43.00 AN HOUR WHEN WE GET LAIDOFF WE ONLY GET UNEMPLOYMENT AND AT THE END OF THE MONTH WE GET LAIDOFF WE NO LONGER HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, WHEN THE UAW CAN SAY THE SAME THING MAYBE THEN GETTLELFINGER CAN TALK ABOUT ALL THE UAW HAS GIVING UP.

Wouldn’t giving the UAW credit for making concessions be kind of like giving a thief credit for returning your wallet for the reward?

JR, even if the average is $28 an hour PLUS benefits, that’s still way out of line for uneducated, unskilled labor on a plant assembly line. I went to college for 5 years and then worked 15 years in my field before I made that much. I paid my own childcare (no free childcare), I had to pay towards my healthcare benefits, my retirement is an employer match contribution plan (no pension). And when my company downsized,
while I did get 4 months severance pay, I had to wait 4 months before I could apply for unemployment insurance and after 2 months, had to start paying $500 a month to continue my COBRA health insurance until I was rehired. And that was all rather generous by most standards today. So, until the UAW comes close to reality, the auto industry is doomed.

Maybe RobbieSue, you picked the wrong profession. Anyway, I don’t argue that the UAW is out of line for the average American, but I take issue with the outrageous lies about what the workers earn. Everyday I see or hear the $70 an hour thrown around and it is a lie. I also take exception to the idea that the workers are UNTRAINED drop outs, most have gone through an apprentice program and are very well trained, There seems to be an idea that assembly workers only put a screw or nut on something all day. It’s more involved than you realize.

It’s $28/hour plus benefits for existing workers. New hires come in at $14/hour.
The car companies have been working on getting this under control for years. They’re getting rid of the higher cost employees and with VEBA, will no longer be on the hook for healthcare either. If the companies survive the next couple years, they will thrive.
And, though I’m no fan of unions or Mr. Gettelfinger, he made a good point that we are not playing on a level playing field. We let S. Korea import 600,000 cars while they only let each of the Big 3 send 5,000 cars to them.
You’ll see action on this by Congress. Ultimately, it is much more expensive to each of us if GM goes under than if we give them a loan. Plus, on the 67th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, everybody should think long and hard that only two generations ago these companies became the “arsenal of democracy”. If, heaven forbid, we are ever in that situation again do we really want to count on Toyota, Honda and Volkswagon to make our bombers, tanks and other weaponry? Did you know that a lot of tank parts come from the automotive industry suppliers?

The problems with the American auto industry should be shared among the management, labor, the government, and the American people (it is our government). The auto companies made several bad decisions over the last few decades. Some of them are potentially fatal. Most large and older companies make those kinds of errors. The past errors are today’s problems. Allowing any employee to do substandard work, union or not, will cause a company to fail. The way Detroit created a labor agreement for benefits is the same way the American government, our government, created a retirement agreement for the American people. The retirement benefits are paid by future workers. It is not working for Detroit any more and it will not work for America in the future. The companies and the unions must change to survive.
With the right governmental oversight that has the power to force changes in all stakeholders, the management, unions, and shareholders, General Motors and to a certain degree Ford could become world class companies again fully functional, strong, and profitable. Chrysler needs to be absorbed by someone.
America is the only country that allows foreign auto manufacturers to sell their vehicles without making them jump through hoops plus give them a tax break at the same time. And we wander why Detroit can’t compete with their high labor/legacy costs when the Japanese have protected home turf and low startup and labor costs and no legacy costs in America. I think there is ample blame to go around, including the American people for allowing our government to give away American jobs to foreign companies and by allowing them to sell their products in America but American companies can not do the same in their country. There should be true free trade, not one-way trade! We are going down that same path with China. That is not good for our future, our children’s future, or our grandchildren’s future. Wake up America! How long do you think we can continue to buy foreign goods, reward foreign manufacturing, and not negatively impact our own economy?

Those who claim UAW workers only make $28 an hour are missing the point. Because the unions have extorted unreasonable pension plans and unemployment benefits from the Big 3, the overall cost of labor today is nearly $71/hr. You cannot just discount the cost of these nonproductive workers. If the unions really are serious they should immediately end the pension payments and allow the Big3 to close underperforming plants without paying salaries to the workers who are let go. This is how every other business works and until the US automakers are given back this flexibility nothing will change. The UAW is a cancer on the Big3 and it will ultimately kill these companies that have provided so much to them over the years. Bankruptcy followed by throwing out all existing union contracts concerning pensions, unemployment, automation, vendor facility sharing, and pay is the only way to truly make the companies viable again. If we bailout the companies today the unions will simply wait until the financial situation improves a little and they will once again go back to extorting more unreasonable concessions from the companies, harming their competitiveness until they finally collapse completely.

Since so many want to tie any bailout with major changes to union contracts and management turnover, I would like to ask when do any of you think a bailout could be placed in effect? March, July, next December or maybe 2010? GM says it will fail NEXT month, do we wait till after it has failed to attempt help?

regardless of whether Congress decides to give the Detroit 3 a bridge loan or not, the estimated cost of 34 Billion is only the beginning. the fact is these are gigantic companies with thousands of employees; not counting the thousands of smaller companies in the auto industry. aside, the UAW and its members need to realize that they are working for private companies that relies solely on selling goods and services to the general public. that said, they are not working for a company with unlimited resources. unlike a local, state and federal government who can simply write legislation and tax people or print money, private companies fundamentally have very limited resources when it comes to generating revenue to pay for its debts and liabilities. heck, even local and state government really doesn’t have unlimited resources. just take a look at California. aside, i think the union members, president of UAW and the management of Detroit 3 have forgotten this very basic and fundamental fact and truism: regardless of how large or gigantic the company is and how far reaching their lobbying arms are in Washington, the Detroit 3 is still a private company that depends mainly on the general public to buy its goods and services. And as the show biz people know, the public is very fickle. better yet, as the business people know, the customer is king. the UAW president needs to realize this fact and send this message to his fellow team members.

Look, as I noted above, I’m no fan of the UAW and the largess (and noose) it created around the Big 3.
But, to discount the effect of unions in this country is to forget history altogether. This reverse-Alzheimer’s, where we forget our own history from only a few generations ago, is our doom. Undoing the regulations of the Great Depression was a great idea, right? Pure capitalism wants the Big 3 to go bankrupt and is anti-union and anti-regulation. Unions are necessary when government does not act (or won’t act because we’re not socialist or communist) to protect the rights of workers. Some have argued that there would be no middle class without unions.
So, say what you will about the Big 3 and the UAW. There are lots of justifiably negative comments about them. But please read your history books on why unions came into place before you disparage the lot of them.
And, for just a moment, imagine what happens if you let GM fail at this point in time. The stock market will drop 1000 points overnight and maybe 2000 points over a couple weeks. Do you understand how much market cap will be lost? Do you realize that those relying on 401ks in their retirement will have lost 50% or more of what they were planning to live on? The cost of bailing those folks out will be staggering. The economic consequences of them failing is too cataclysmic to chance.

Time for GM to declare bankruptcy, and unions leader to reap what they sowed. The unions have not kept up with the 21st century management and progress. That would only bring “down” the businesses in America.
Whereas the other two remainder auto makers can either follow GM’s bankruptcy, consolidate or ask if any foreign companies wants to take over the management of their companies. You have a choice and bailout is a waste of our tax payer money! Give the tax money back to me – a faithful tax payer!

The UAW cannot afford..I repeat CANNOT afford to make very many more concessions. If the workers wages/perks were to fall anywhere near those of the non-unionized Japanese automakers, the UAW would no longer be able to justify their existence to the people that have to pay them their Union dues. Gettlefinger and his Union cronies see this as a genuine threat because now they will have to find real jobs.

It’s not the union employees who are working who need to give the concessions. It’s the ones who are being paid to not work, and the outrageous benefits to retirees that need to be cut. I would support a bailout if we didn’t have to pay $10/hour to someone to sit at home and collect unemployment on top of that. Why do they get an extra $400/week of unemployment, funded by me?

appropriate that this article is dated December 7th…A date which will live in infamy…tragedy then, tragedy now.

Quoting creo: “The irrational figure of 70 is derived by taking ALL benefits including those paid to retirees and their families and then dividing that figure by the number of current workers, thereby inflating it by 3 times.”
However flawed they were in arriving at that figure, that doesn’t change the fact that the industry is paying out that money – hand to mouth – on a yearly basis.
Some data here has indicated that workers earn perhaps $38/hour when benefits are included. So the extra $32/hour to reach $70/hour is essentially an additional emolument for each that is already paid.
If you seek to maintain or grow the workforce, then equal or more people become eligible for retirement benefits each year. Additionally, those services tend to see increasing trends in cost to provide coverage. So what is $70/hr now (sic), will increase along with both additional retirees and inflation of benefit costs.
What needs to be demonstrated first is a sustainable model for paying out those retirement benefits – retired personnel should not be part of an annual budget. This trust fund or whatever they decide to use will need to cover their current retirement assets as well as make provisions for the future.
Now that you’re left with the real numbers you then need to compare those wages to those of competitors, and it must be done on a unit scale – net pay (pay + benefits) / required work hours per year. Without a unit measurement you cannot make any real comparison.
It is that unit measurement that compares unfavorably to other entities within the auto industry.
That’s the basic first issue. There’s a lot more.

When will the bailouts end? Whose going to bailout the U.S.A. when our dollar isn’t worth the paper it is written on? That’s where we’re headed. Soon folks will be throwing their money in the streets because it will have absolutely no value at all!

Here’s your gold star and pat on the head for recognition Gettelfinger. Now get to work and stop whining please.

I worked for General Motors for thirty two years and was in all the auto strikes of the sixtys and seventys,we were on food stamps and welfare we had a strong union until Republician president Roland Reagan broke the Air traffic controlers union,we have been giving consession every contract from tha time.The auto workers worked very hard for these company’s and our country prospered,now we need a loan to survive to keep not only jobs and benifets for the workers but the retires.How many of these same Republician remember the first Bail out of the saving and loan companies that Neil Bush was involved in selling junk bonds now that was a bail out not a loan,it seems they have hid Neil Bush for years, let our congress bring in the Bush’s to explain the process on getting a loan or bail out to save millions of jobs and our countries future.

I agree with 1 percenter, I am not happy about bailing out the auto industry, but we cannot let them go under either. Although I think bankruptcy would be the best choice and they will come back stronger. They owe so much money to entities the taxpayers don’t know. GM’s still paying court fees for dealerships that sued them when they eliminated Oldsmobile. There is a special financing for purchasing when a corp is in bankruptcy, there’s third party warranties you can purchase. Ford is banking on the Volt to save them and it’s going to cost $40,000 come on if someone can’t afford a $20,000 car how the heck do they think a $40,000 cars going to make it all better!! I know the Chrysler workers make $28/hr. not including benefits. I have family members who work there and have heard them cry for years everytime they had to re-negotiate their contract and received a nice pay raise and year-end bonus but had to start paying $2 for their prescriptions and $5 co-pay for a doctor visit, then the next time it’s because they are switching insurance carriers blah, blah. One of them has worked their 10 years and has been in the job bank about 8 of those 10. That is because the Union says you have to hire 1500 people whether you have work for them or not quotas, quotas..that’s why they had to start the job bank. Now Chrysler’s closing plants and forcing the higher paid employees to take a buyout or transfer so they can bring new hires in at $14. The ones taking the buyout have not received their money and haven’t been told when they will get it, even though they are no longer receiving a paycheck. Those transferring are to receive $50,000 but haven’t been told when they will receive it, but have a month to pack up and move. Where are their Union reps now?? They don’t care they are receiving their HUGE paychecks and benefits probably even getting a year-end bonus! The Unions are a huge reason the Auto Industry’s where it is today. They are holding guns to the heads of the CEO’s to make sure they don’t say “We’ll take bankruptcy”, oh and I’m sure they’re taking names too.

I want oyu all to understand that the quoted $74 and hour is not a wage but a total for what employees are paid through not only strait wage but through benefits and retirement fopr the working adn retired. Do not get lost in the numbers.

And to all of u who keep bringing up the facts about imports n exports its simple travel outside the US and you’ll pretty much understand why we export very little, they dont fricken fit on the roads of other countries. Lets try talking a Vietmanese family into buying a chevy suburban right u idiots.