Courts: PEBO Can Say ‘So Help Me God’ As Part of Official Oath on Tuesday*

Brock ALREADY swore, in various “elected” positions, to uphold, protect, defend the Constitution.
He didn’t, though: voted for the Patriot Act, FISA, for turning over the Treasury to the banks, etc.
Why would He start now, no matter what deity He does or doesn’t invoke?

Ah, jeez: the Brock machine has enticed Tiger Woods into participating in the coronation. Maybe the Secret Service, or somebody, can switch Tiger for Brock: better golf, better politics, AND — for those who thrive on celebrity appeal — better looking.

I suppose an argument could be made for disallowing the additional words that has nothing to do with the separation of church and state.
If the Constitution says we must use THIS exact oath, does that imply that we can’t add words to it? Because it really wouldn’t be the same oath then, would it? I’ll let the judges have fun with that one.

If this idiot does not believe in God and does not want to reconize God–that is his right–but he has no right to take that away from another person. The reason this nation is in so much trouble at this time is because God had been taken out of many places, starting with our schools. You cannot read the bible in school, but you sure can in prison. You cannot post the 10 commandments in a court house, but you must swear on the bible to tell the truth. Go figure!!!

The comments about Tiger saying “god” are funny too; because his mom raised him in the buddhist philsophies..

Who cares if he says it? It means no more to him than any other oath/promise he’s made. Words, that’s all. They have no meaning, for him…or anyone else. Nobody’s ever been struck dead for adding these words to a lie, and he won’t be the first.
And I believe “under God” was added some time after the Pledge of Allegiance was in use, added during the Cold War ’50s, wasn’t it? Ah, yes, a little search shows June 14, 1954, the president authorized the addition, mostly to freak the Russians out.
Words, words, words. So much money wasted in courts attacking or defending words related to beliefs.

“The phrase “so help me god” should never be a part of any official oath of office.”
Sounds like you advocate violating the clause “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.
The phase isnt part of the official oath and Newdow is a jerk.

As an Agnostic I believe in a very strict separation of church and state. References to god and religion should be struck from anything governmental. This is especially true for references to god in the pledge of allegiance and on currency and coins. Americans are free to pursue their religious beliefs in their own churches so they don’t need to do it in secular (i.e., anything to do with any type of government) settings. Without strict separation of church and state there can be no freedom of religion.

I hope Newdow and all of his atheist organizations lose every law suit that they file! I hope that it get so bad for them that they can’t even find any lawyers that will take their cases or any judges who will hear their cases. I hope that they soon have to just give up in defeat because it’s a complete waste of their time and money! They should never win another lawsuit!

Hi,

“Some of you people need to take a hard look at the history of this nation and the Christian principles it was founded on. If you take God out of the US you can be sure this country will go down the tubes.”
Some of you need to take a hard look at the history and Constitution of this nation and realize that while many religious men have served it, this country was designed specifically to allow for freedom of religion and not be a religious state.

Silver Lady-
Don’t force your fairy tale “bible” on the populace — have you not heard of “separation of church and state”?

Actually God wasn’t in our forefathers intent when writing the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. In fact, the author of the Declaration of Independence, was more an agnostic than anything and he despied how organized institutions such as the church, manipulated the teachings of Jesus.

I don’t believe in atheists. :)

I am an atheist as well and I would like to say, good for the courts. We have more things to worry about than whether or not someone says “God” in a speech or pledge. Who cares if he says it or not? This guy is just an attention seeking d. bag. He should be fined for wasting everyone’s time.

Keep fighting Dr. Newdow. One day we will be free from religion.

If a devout Christian like Obama wants to ask for God’s help in performing his duties, I probably wouldn’t want to be the one trying to come between God and Obama. Not believing in God is one thing, ridiculing the president for his belief is another thing completely.
Atheists have the right not to believe in God – that’s their choice. But trying to force their beliefs on devout Christians is ridiculous and a waste of time.

Silverlady- “You cannot post the 10 commandments in a court house, but you must swear on the bible to tell the truth. Go figure!!!”
You don’t have to swear on a Bible to take an oath or to give testimony. You do have to swear that what you are saying the truth. This is something you have to let the courts know in advance prior to the oath or sworn testimony.

um…… ear plugs can be found in the hardware department at Home Depot. :)

Chuck S – How are you discriminated against?
When you apply for a job, housing, a loan, school, etc.- you are not asked your religion. If you are arrested, your relgion, or lack of religion, plays no part in the court proceedings. If you are sick, a doctor would not deny you treatment because you are an atheist.
Most people don’t befriend people who only share the same beliefs as them (I’m friends with many people of other faiths and those who have no faith at all).
I believe that everyone is afforded equal rights under the constitution, whether they believe in God or not, so how exactly are you discriminated against?

No offense to those atheists that truly respect the beliefs of others, but it’s gotten to the point where atheism is a religion/cult of sorts. When a group demands that the U.S. should accept only their interpretation of the afterlife, and resorts to the court system to enforce it, it becomes somewhat cultish in my view. Last I checked, it was freedom of religion, not from it.

Atheist will continue to fight. Good for them! I’m not an atheist myself. But I sick and tired of Christians thinking they are the only ones that matter in this country. Especially when so many are hypocritical, raving loons.

Newdow is a nut, he is trying to change 86% of the Americans views on believing in God. This nut tried this tact in 2004 now trying again, he must lead a very boring life!

FSM if your male close to or around 39 years old … will you Marry me? “Batting my eyelashes”

Atheists may not believe in God, but why are they so insistent on showing disrespect for those who do. Personally, I would like to have seen a non-Christian included in the Inaugural ceremonies, perhaps a Rabbi or someone from BaHai Faith, or a Buddhist … just to make the religious pieces more inclusive, but I certainly am not going to try and force my personal views on others. Anyway, the Atheists should be happy that Rick Warren was chosen .. he is more politician than pastor!!

Readyforachange,
where did you get the idea that less govt means not rules?
Or that Bush has no intelligence? You dont have to agree with Bush to admit he is a smart man. He graduated from Yale and Harvard. Why dont U give us some facts and not just spewing made up stuff?

ScorpRedhead – This argument has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity – it’s about Obama’s (or any president’s) right to pray in public to whatever God he choses to believe in. In just so happens that Obama is a Christian. When Obama says “so help me God” nobody cares if it’s a Christian god or some other deity.

I’d like to see some laws changed to where this nut is charged for all of the federal money that we the taxpayers have to spend every time he does one of these suits.

Ramen,
You dont know what hate is if you think this is tough. Sounds like you’ve got some thin skin, my friend. Anyone can say anything about they have been mistreated. If it happened, I am sorry. There are other good places to work. Hope you find one.

As the majority of mankind seems to recognize that there is some power greater than themselves, and other men, the world population has deviated from the original path the creator whould desire us to follow. That said, there are those who choose not to believe in anything, and they have my sympathy, since they will have to pay for their own mistakes, not me. When our country was founded, it was partly to excape for some new form of adventure, freedom, and whatever would motivate those who also wanted religious freedom. God did not mess up mankind, he has done that himself, but the fact remains that if we as Christians are to be tolerant of Athiests, and hope somehow they realize the truth,, we should not allow them to dominate our lives, nor the values we believe in. If we are to tolerate them, then they should tolerate us as well. Actually the scriptures teach us not to swear by anything in the form of an oath. This is strictly another drift that perpetuates the traditions of men, but having non believers dictate those who do believe, regardless of drifting from some scripture, is not acceptble. Allowing such does in no way interfere with their lives anymore than when Christians do not impose their will through the courts for Athiests to believe in God. It is their free choice, not mine or yours. History has proven to those who believe in God that he will always have his day when the time comes. It saddens me to see those who have an opportunity as a free moral agent, not do the things they could if their choices were made correctly. If we were all of one accord, and understood, and practised what God prefers us to do, our world would have a completely different present, and future than it has now. Most certainly a better one. We have to keep vigil from letting the influences of evil, and those who offer no purpose from dominating our society. 73toms

when Michael Newdow becomes president he doesnt have to say it, but he doesnt have the right to prevent anyone else from saying it

As an Atheist…I’m not trying to push my beliefs on anyone. No one at all. It’s the exact opposite. Pray at your church, mosque of synagogue. Pray at your house. Pray at your workplace(Not out loud). I don’t care. Y
ou are allowed to praise your God in public and nobody bats an eyelash. If I merely say that I’m an Atheist…people think I’m trying to take over the world. If I’m tolerant of your views…why aren’t you tolerant of mine?
If you pay cash for something with a coin that doesn’t say “In God We Trust”….is that going to hurt you? No…Our money has nothing to do with God…Religions do but not God. By forcing me to use money with that phrase on it…it means that I have to conform to religious standards…and that is a violation of my civil rights. I’m indirectly saying that I support a government influence by God.
I say the Pledge of Allegiance with pride…but I omit the word “God”. That’s my right and please don’t hold it against me. You are judging me…And if I’m not mistaken…that’s a big no no from Big Papa up above.
Ramen

Chuck S – I am sorry to hear that you have had a hard time being promoted and feeling accepted, but maybe it’s not being an atheist that is holding you back, but talking about your beliefs in inappropriate places that is the problem.
I work in an business with people of many faiths – talking about religion in the workplace is taboo. If you are routinely talking about your religion (or lack of religion) in the workplace – as opposed to say, doing your work, you probably didn’t deserve that promotion.Plus, No one likes a co-worker who preaches to the others – it’s usually the workers who don’t preach to others who are promoted.
As for others not wanting to befriend you because of your beliefs – I’d say you are probably trying to befriend the wrong people. Most people I know are open-minded and respectful of all beliefs.

Chuck — Your right. You have your rights just like I do. The problem is with the one’s who want to take our God away & waste tax payers $$. I think it would be like Christians trying to force God on you. Now I love God, but I can’t force Him on you. No one should. God gave use all free will. BUT the people 200= years ago fought for God & to put His name of money & buildings instead of a Kings name. I guess there are just crazy people across the board.

What should Obama say? so help me Allah.

“What Mike is asking is that you keep your higher being in their appropriate houses not not force them on the likes of all. The Constitution wasn’t created to govern & protect the majority of people – it is designed to govern & protect all the people.” — Posted by: Micky Mc
It doesn’t work that way. Obama (or any president) has a constitutional right to pray to any God he chooses. When taking the oath of office, he has a constitutional right to ask for guidance from that God. Why should he have to conceal his beliefs just to make some people feel better? He’s asking for guidance, not preaching to the people – no one is required to become a Christian.
We have the right to believe what we want and we also have the right to free speech. We can talk about anything in public – even God. Because we don’t always agree with each other in this land of the free, a bit of respect for each other’s beliefs is required. IN this ruling, the court is asking atheists to respect Obama’s beliefs and his rights.|

Kalifornia used to part of the country. Now it’s a joke -
A RINO governor and a leftist Assemble and Senate – we are sinking into the Pacific at an alarming rate.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all religions of Abraham. We all share the Old Testament, most prophets and even conservative dietary traditions.
Most of the venom that divides the great religion is political and The Christian God, Allah and Jehovah (if they are different at all) do not approve this hatred.

What should Obama say? so help me Allah.
Posted by: CW | Jan 16, 2009 5:53:19 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CW….that would be very appropriate.
Would sound better coming from him.

Interesting reading some of these post. Important to remember why we have a separation of church and state. “Separation of Church and State” is a way of keeping government out of our various religions, not the other way around!
Our country was founded under the pretense that each citizen could practice his or her religion freely. In government most of all, the various religions politicians practice should be embraced.
Thomas Jefferson went to Church every Sunday in the United States Treasury building while churches were being built in his area. That sort of thing would create a firestorm of controversy today.

Rochelle – you must be a history teacher?
You’re right though. Although the majority of Americans are Christian, we are not a Christian nation. We are country of many faiths, and I think the constitution and most people in this country respect that.

Tapper, I’m pretty sure your facts are flatly wrong.
As I understand it, Newdow’s suit requested that the Chief Justice be enjoined from saying “so help me God” when he states the oath of office for Obama to repeat. It wasn’t focused on the issue of the President Elect choosing to add the phrase on his own.
There’s a significant difference between those two scenarios. The oath of office–as administered–should be the one specified by the Constitution.
It’s one thing to trivialize a constitutional provision that we should take seriously–that no civil officeholder in the US should be expected to make a religious oath in order to serve–but it’s another to do so by misrepresenting the case.
Please check into this and post a correction, if appropriate.

Sportin’ Life say :History 101 – Our Founding Fathers went out of their way to make sure we had Separation of Church and State” to keep government out of our various religions, not the other way around!!
They were opposed to state sponsored religion and wanted to ensure that people could worship how they wanted.
………………
State sponsored religion is exactly what you now have. Specifically Christianity. The state forces christianity on your people through your money, your courts, your pledge of allegiance and your presidential oath of office. Christianity and state have become so interconnected that just the rumor that PE Obama was a muslim sent panic waves through the nation.
Sad

State sponsored religion is exactly what you now have.
______________________________
You are exercising your freedom to not worship, not believe and discuss your lack of belief freely on this Blog. If we had “state sponsored religion” you could do no such thing.
The rumor that Obama was a Muslim did not send “panic waves through the nation” as you suggest. Just the far right neo-cons who have no concept of tolerance.

There seems to be a misconception as to the purpose of the lawsuit (among other things); the suit is not trying to prevent Obama from invoking religion. To the contrary, the he and the FFRF said publicly that they support Obama saying those words. The suit was intended to prevent the Chief Justice from injecting those words into the pledge, thereby leading Obama to speak words that do not appear in the constitution and, by proxy, leading Obama to invoke the name of Roberts’ god. I.e., The Chief Justice can pray all he wants, but he is not allowed to, under color of office, lead a prayer.
Side note: I, personally, take great offense at religious references in government texts, documents, and practices.

People like this guy just make me tired all over. Will someone please tell him his 15 minutes of fame are up?

The title and the article are very misleading.
IN other words the article is a lie a falsehood – down right wrong! But that’s okay – because it was meant to stir up all the poor downtrodden religious people

Paige
Thomas Jefferson articulated that in his view the First Amendment created a “wall of separation” between church and state. This was not a one way wall indicating only that the state “isnt allowed to establish as specific Church” as you would like to think. It meant that government was to be kept secular and all persons are allowed to have freedom of religous exercise.
Surely you cannot argue that the Christianization of the government has not made it more difficult for non-Christians to embrace or participate in it? How could it not be, at least in some small way, disconcerting for people of different religions (or no religion) to have their government impose Christian rituals upon them?
Having seen the history of tightly coupled church/state governments surely the founding fathers were on the right track in trying to ensure the separation of church and state. However I guess that you must know better than they.

Liberal elites, the main stream media, and Obama are building a house of cards based on lies and deceit. Sooner or later it will fall and burn. Let’s all sing makuda matada or whatever…
Welcome Great Liar Obama

And furthermore…
Like it or not, our government was created to be specifically disassociated from religion. Any religion, all religions.
Believe it or not, some of us find it perfectly reasonable to question the assumption that there is a human-like, selfish, vain, god somewhere, who demands our flattery and worship.
Trust me- I am telling you with absolute seriousness that I do not share your beliefs or assumptions.
And that is my right, guaranteed by our Constitution.
So many of the comments I read here seem to come from people who simply cannot believe, let alone accept, that everyone does not believe the same things that they believe.
Trust me, we don’t.

Jeremy Brooks wrote: “I, personally, take great offense at religious references in government texts, documents, and practices.”
Then I guess you are offended by the U. S. Constitution. Instead of a more general reference, i.e., “In God We Trust,” or “Under God,” there is, in fact, a very specific reference to Jesus Christ in the Constitution. Article VII of the U. S. Constitution states: “Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven…”

And for all of you who say religion had no place in forming our government…our form of government is based on the Presbyterian Church’s structure.

As usual, there is a misunderstanding of what was actually said on this post.
Newdow was trying to prevent the Supreme Justice Roberts from adding the phrase,
“So help me God” to the original oath. He was not trying to dictate what the President elect Obama would say.
Born as a Catholic, I am now bound to no religion nor am I am an atheist. After many years of Christians inflicting their brand of beliefs upon me and inciting that I would go to hell if I did not accept Jesus Christ as my Savior.
I did the unthinkable and actually began to study other religions and then the history of religion itself of which Christianity’s beginning left an horrid impression upon me. I do not want to be associated with it in anyway.
Respecting only it’s original Gnostic form of Christianity which most Christians of today have walked away from.
For me, a look back to the Ancients, before the world of Christianity or Atheists. More akin to the Native American, to the belief in the Earth and the elements and still there is a Creator, call it God if you want to.

“Interesting reading some of these post. Important to remember why we have a separation of church and state. ‘Separation of Church and State’ is a way of keeping government out of our various religions, not the other way around.”
No, see, that’s where you’re wrong. Both of those aspects of what’s usually lumped together as “separation of church and state” are explicitly covered by the First Amendment. Before it even gets around to mentioning freedom of speech or the press, the First Amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” That’s two different things. The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion — that’s the government keeping it’s hands off religion — but it may not establish a state religion either, and that says that religion has to keep its hands off government. And that second one is why it’s so offensive when the government adds “under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance (as it did in the 50′s, to prove that we’re not Godless Communists) or “so help me Big White Father Figure In The Sky” to a Presidential oath which is spelled out, word for word, in the Constitution that Roberts is supposed to be preserving.

OMG, I can’t believe that the court or at least a judge has stood up for something good. This must kill the ACLU – The bums must going crazy.
Our country would be so much better off without lawyers. They have all but destroyed civility in our country.
Should we eliminate God from America, I will leave this country for a country with out God is no better than Iran.

Mallory – Exactly how is Obama uttering the words “so help me God” forcing you to be a Christian? Don’t you think we need all the help we can get?

Thanks for the correction, Jake. Too bad, though, you didn’t have it right the first time. The issue is inflammatory enough without adding incorrect information to the fire.
Unfortunately the premise of most reporting on the case was “Oh look what the atheists are doing now,” rather than “Well, let’s consider Newdow’s argument.”

I’m puzzled by why atheists say that “we” ( do they mean America citizens ?) and the government is forcing Christianity on them — if this was true why aren’t those of the Jewish faith, the Muslim faith and other religions standing up with the atheists complaining about the same thing ?
Because it isn’t true !
What atheists are trying to do is take God away from Christians – THEY( the atheists) are trying to force THEIR beliefs upon US — it doesn’t work that way and it’s time that all atheists stop wasting their efforts . We who believe in God will NEVER be told by anyone that we cannot have God in our lives, hear His name spoken or be denied God in any way.

Who paid Newdow to do this? You know he wouldn’t do this on his own if Obama didn’t want it. I’m so sick of this phoney stage show meant to fool the idiots of the nation (which, unfortunately, is now the majority).

REPLY to “Sportin’ Life,” specifically this comment: “Because the issue at hand relates to what an individual or individuals may say at the inauguration and not the enactment of laws, the attempted application of the First Amendment is not relevant in this case.”
This argument simply ignores the fact that those who are uttering such words are acting not as private individuals but in fact as Government Officials on a government forum exercising government power (to administer and engage in oaths required to assume office and thus exercise government power over the rest of us).
Hence, your argument is fatally flawed, and yes, if Obama shouted “Allah is Great!” 99% of Americans would be up in arms about it, thus validating the “atheists’” objections here that ANY religion spouted by GOVERNMENT officials whilst exercising government functions/power tends to ESTABLISH religion in direct violation of the First Amendment.
Faith is safe — in homes, churches, public parks — anywhere one wants to exercise it. Except during government functions. We simply don’t need government bureaucrats promoting one faith over another. Indeed, that only injures faith in the long run, and galvanizes the very divisiveness that spawns religious rivalry, wars, etc.
So even if one disagrees about what the Founders meant, this reasoning supplies good cause to urge church-state separation politically, as a core value that helps keep America safe and free, and that secures (rather than erodes) the freedom to worship (or not).

IF the christian skygod is really omnipotent as the followers assert, she/he need not worry about being mentioned in the mere affairs of mortal men.

daswizard – And who do you think gave men that power? It was God.

Many good comments on the early history of our country, but I think there is one concept missing. The Declaration of Independence states “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.” This means that there are certain rights that were given to all people that governments should not take away. If governments don’t accept this, then governments have the right to do whatever they want. Since most of the founders belived in God, they thought it was important to remind us of this fact in many documents. Just because they did not use it in every sentence and paragraph does not mean that God is excluded from that text. Most founders were Christians, but they did not mention Christ by name but used the more generic term of God so all religions felt they were included.

I think the Atheist should give it up…we live in a democracy in which a majority vote, or views rule….if 95 % of the population want “God ” to be kept, then it should stay in. This is not to disreguard the views of the atheist…if they don’t believe in God, then don’t say the word. But if 95 % of us want to say it, including elected officials, we should be able to. The majority of the paople rule this nation, the minority.

To all you Atheists out there. Remember this is America, you know freedom of speech. For you to make comments or create lawsuits over the word “God” being used in federal quotations, songs and inscriptions, please remember that they are free to be there as you are free to be Atheist. President Obama gave credit to Atheists in his innagural address, of which no President has done before. You as believers are all apart of “We” Remember that.

Billy…And I suppose you would be just as happy if the situation were reversed??? I doubt it.

He should also be able to say: “So help me, Allah!” I suspect some religionists might have a problem with that, though. God…like beauty…..is in the eye of the beholder.

Ted: I meant to say that includes preaching the gospel to you whether you like it or not and whether you want to hear it or not. We Christians can’t force you to listen but we wouldn’t be doing our jobs as Christians and as Jesus’ disciples in today’s world if we didn’t preach the gospel to everyone wherever we go!

To those of you who were quoting the Declaration of Independence, remember, that document allowed us to break with England. That was not the document to FORM the United States. That document starts with “We the People.” Note that it does NOT start with “By the Grace of the Almighty (but invisible & unknowable) God.” The Constitution is about the PEOPLE who make this great nation.
Remember, christians only makes up about 1/3 of the planet’s population. With all of the gods available to believe in, WHY do you think you’ve got it right? WHY do you think you’ve got the right to proselytize to the rest of us?
Do as it says in Matthew 6:6 go into your closet and “pray to thy Father which is in secret.” And stop thinking you’ve got it right. You don’t.