Gitmo and Torture: Slam Dunks?
EmailMajorities of Americans support Barack Obama’s positions on Guantanamo and the torture of terrorism suspects – but with enough doubters to make those policies something less than a slam dunk in terms of public opinion.
Obama’s made both marquee issues in his incoming administration, filing a motion to put Guantanamo prosecutions on hold and reiterating his opposition to torture.
On Gitmo, 53 percent in our latest ABC/Post poll support finding some other way to deal with terrorism suspects; 42 percent instead would keep the military detention center open. On torture, 58 percent favor an outright ban, while 40 percent wouldn’t flatly rule it out.
The public divides on a related issue, whether the Obama administration should investigate to see if any laws were broken in the Bush administration’s treatment of terrorism suspects, with 50 percent in favor, 47 percent opposed. The split is sharply partisan: Sixty-nine percent of Democrats would investigate; 69 percent of Republicans, not.
GITMO – Closing Guantanamo has not been a top public priority: Among eight non-economic items tested in an ABC/Post poll in December, it finished last on the list as something Obama should do.
Among those who favor another approach, six in 10 prefer to see suspects now held at Guantanamo tried in the regular U.S. court system. A third would rather send them for trial in their home countries – an effort made difficult, in any case, by the unwillingness of some countries to accept them.
TORTURE – On torture, previous polling has shown majority opposition in principle, but less so if it’s associated with a demonstrable benefit – specifically, saving lives by preventing a terrorist attack. There’s debate over whether such benefit can be reliably demonstrated, as well as about what exactly constitutes torture.
Since the wording of questions is particularly important on this issue, here’s what we asked:
“Obama has said that under his administration the United States will not use torture as part of the U.S. campaign against terrorism, no matter what the circumstance. Do you support this position not to use torture, or do you think there are cases in which the United States should consider torture against terrorism suspects?”
As noted, 58 percent favored no torture under any circumstances; 40 percent said there are cases in which it should be considered. Among other differences is a big gender gap: women oppose torture in any case by a 2-1 margin, 65-31 percent; men instead divide evenly on the question: Forty-nine percent rule it out, 50 percent don’t.
The widest gaps, though, are ideological and partisan. At the extremes, 77 percent of liberal Democrats rule it out; 60 percent of conservative Republicans say it should be considered in some cases. In the political center, 56 percent of independents and 57 percent of moderates back Obama on torture; 43 and 42 percent, respectively, don’t.
Views on Gitmo, too, are sharply partisan. As I noted yesterday in discussing the prospects for post-partisanship, 68 percent of Democrats and 72 percent of liberals want it closed; 69 percent of Republicans and 58 percent of conservatives would keep it open. Independents and moderates, as usual, tilt the balance, in this case toward shutting it down.
Overall results follow. This is from our latest ABC/Post poll, conducted by telephone among a random national sample of 1,079 adults Jan. 13-16, with a 3-point error margin.
33. Do you think the United States should continue to hold suspected terrorists at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, or should it find another way to deal with these terrorism suspects? Continue to hold Find another way No at Guantanamo to deal with them opinion 1/16/09 42 53 5 34. (IF FIND ANOTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH SUSPECTS) Which would you prefer - for the United States to (put these terrorism suspects on trial in the regular U.S. court system), or for the United States to (send them for trial in their home countries)? Put on trial in Send them for trial No U.S. system in home countries opin. 1/16/09 62 33 5 33/34 NET ----- Find another way ------- Hold at Trial Trial in No No Gitmo NET in U.S. home country op. op. 1/16/09 42 53 33 17 3 5 35. Obama has said that under his administration the United States will not use torture as part of the U.S. campaign against terrorism, no matter what the circumstance. Do you support this position not to use torture, or do you think there are cases in which the United States should consider torture against terrorism suspects? Support not There are cases using torture to consider torture No opin. 1/16/09 58 40 2 36. (HALF SAMPLE) Do you think the Obama administration should or should not investigate whether any laws were broken in the way terrorism suspects were treated under the Bush administration? Should Should not No opinion 1/16/09 50 47 2
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On Gitmo, 53 percent in our latest ABC/Post poll support finding some other way to deal with terrorism suspects; Is Wong !!!
Releasing the Terrorist back to their Countries is absolutely ludicrous and wilful amd wanton endangerment of U.S. Lives… After being locked up for year at Gitmo, more than likely they will become participants in sucide bomber to extract revenge for their captinity.
Tourture…. What is Ombam planning to do to extract vital information from Terrorist who have been trained in misinformation and refuse to devulge information….
Give them Ice Cram and Cookies?
Yea that will get them to talk….
If Barak fulfills this plam to close Gitmo, it could be the biggest mistake of his administration….
Looking forward to hearing others input.
Posted by: Very Concern Citizen | January 21, 2009, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm
Terror and war are issues decided by POLLS???????
Barack has to “#### # ####” as our Chief Executive – it’s the only way to keep us safe – he is not Lawyer in Chief – he is Commander in Chief!!!
Posted by: robert b | January 21, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm
I believe we need Guantanamo and I believe we will need very persuasive methods of getting information from fanatics. Asking them questions with only a belt in hand (as my dad used to do) isn’t going to get us the information we need to protect our country and citizens around the world.
When we are attacked again, and with no fear of being caught we will be, those who wanted to stop severe questioning procedures will be crying ‘Why didn’t we know!”.
Posted by: Joe | January 22, 2009, 11:14 am 11:14 am
Any true Christian would oppose torture. It is not a question of who the prisoner is, it is a question of who we are. John McCain said, and he should know, that rather than information, torture will get you misinformation. Therefore, there is no benefit in torture and what a horribly inhumane, Godless procedure to even consider.
Posted by: Lou Nell Davis | January 22, 2009, 4:53 pm 4:53 pm
Idealists in control of keeping our country safe makes me very nervous – if something happens on Obama’s watch, you can look back to stupid decisions about Gitmo and how we interrogate people. And where is it that these terrorists will be taken? I don’t want them in my city or country and neither do many other countries! let’s send them to bunk down with our legislators in favor of closing Gitmo – the evil and vile characters there are not much different in character. If Americans are smart they will vote all of them out and start over!
Posted by: Susan | January 22, 2009, 7:02 pm 7:02 pm
What about the hundreds of others kept in secret
locations. Lets just turn all them loose in Chicago and
give them food stamps and social security benefits
and all the other benefits we tax payers love to pay.
We will eventually have our own Gaza right here in
our country and our troops won’t have to fight in a
foreign country, they can do it here at home.
Posted by: EDdie | January 22, 2009, 7:10 pm 7:10 pm
The prisoners at Guantanomo Bay are threats to our society and I believe we are safer with them being held at Guantanomo. They have no regard for human life and we are supposed have regard for them? If we close Guantanomo I can only hope that the next four years goes quickly. I felt safe with George Bush as our leader, he kept his promise to protect the USA even though he was the punching bag for the world. Two days into his presidency and already Barack is making America less safe. We need to keep Guantanomo open–hopefully others will realize that those held there are terroists without any respect for human life. I am a Christian and I do not like torture but terroists are a threat to all that is good and shouldn’t the true Christians be protected by our government? Terroists are evil and do not belong on our soil–so sad to think that our new president is going to release them and let them walk on our streets endangering our lives and our children’s lives.
Posted by: Danielle Swisher | January 22, 2009, 7:20 pm 7:20 pm
I agree that there are alot of things that need to be fixed in this country but to close down “GITMO” and bring the TERRORIST to our country for trial give me a break. We have alresdy seen what some of our Judges and the Judicial system are capable of,they will just let them go saying that they have already served enough time.
These people have an out right hatred for this country and to close down “GITMO” is the wrong move
A CONCERNED CITIZEN
Posted by: Alec | January 22, 2009, 8:20 pm 8:20 pm
I Feel we are now less safe. The terrorists will soon need public defenders,paid for by the folks they want to kill. The military should handle the trials of the terrorist.
I feel the President has made mistakes which we will be suffering for in the future.
Posted by: Cliff Mulder | January 22, 2009, 9:06 pm 9:06 pm
I have to side with detaining terrorists and not releasing them to become terrorist heroes here or abroad.I do believe they could have been charged and brought to trial before now. It is debatable that our treatment of them has been “torture.” Maybe one or two cases that should not have gone as far as they did. But by and large, they were treated as well or better and given more amenities than many prisoners in the U.S.
I have 45 year old friend being held for life for a horrible act of passion when he barely out of his teens. He has completed his education, even a Master’s degree; has been a cooperative prisoner; is definitely no threat to society; yet has been denied parole time and again inspite of family and clergy pleas for leniency. Let unrepentant terrortists go? No way!
Posted by: John Payton | January 22, 2009, 10:13 pm 10:13 pm
While I support and voted for Obama, the decision to close Camp Delta and bring the enemy combatants to the continental US places the US and Americans in more danger. While we certainly needed to fix Bush’s illegal policy on torture, and the politics of how we were dealing with the detainees, the concept of Camp Delta and military tribunals is sound. Americans will regret the closure of the defensible facility OCONUS, and the relocation of the detainees onto American soil. The 18 flag-officers who supported, none of whom I recognize, were right about ceasing torture, but dead wrong on the closure of the facility and relocation of the detainees. Rather than “throwing out the baby with the bathwater,” fixing the egregious politically-driven policies would have been better for all Americans.
Posted by: Sam | January 22, 2009, 10:30 pm 10:30 pm
Define torture and you might get a different response. Do people more that water boarding is part of the Seal training? Lets take these numbers when we catch some terrorist that is part of a cell that will blow up an American building. What will you do to save your neighbors or families life? Tickle him with a feather? How about read him his rights even though he doesnt wear a uniform and isnt a citizen of this country. This is insane.
Posted by: ChicagoBob | January 22, 2009, 11:12 pm 11:12 pm
This is unbelievable, we elected this guy into office and he’s getting ready to open up the flood gates of terrorist attacks on us yet again. I thank God everyday that I did not play a hand in putting this guy into office. I am neither Democrat or Republican, but I will say this, I come from parents that exiled here many years ago from communist countries and they have seen how the uprising and brainwashing begins. And sadly they see it in Obama, the mesmerizing words of a promise for a better tomorrow, the smooth, swift, silent and extremely organized approach to gathering large hoards of people, our good people of this great country, under the promise that this is real CHANGE. It’s so disappointing to see that our great citizens have been so blinded and voted this person into office out of DESPERATION for CHANGE. I think that shutting down GITMO and the rest of our CIA detention centers is insane. This is part of our counterintelligence, this part of what the protectors of our FREE country need to use in order to safeguard us against the sick, twisted souls that don’t care about us and only live to fulfill one purpose, to destroy us. I believe Obama has reopened our doors to terrorism and it will be a very sad day in America when we go through yet another massive attack. These detention centers are needed to stay ahead of these malicious and evil people, why should we EVER have any compassion for them, did they think twice when they slaughtered our families on 9/11? I’m not a big fan of Bush either and yes 911 did occur on his watch, but let’s see here, who was it that softened up on our defenses, hmmmmmm, was it a democrat perhaps-CLINTON. I feel sorry for this country for the path we have chosen to take as a whole. Before you know it, Obama will be eliminating the CIA!
Posted by: Carol | January 23, 2009, 12:30 am 12:30 am
Its amazing how people forgot 9/11. Americans lost their lives in NY. Americans have lost their lives fighting terrorists in the middle east. Gitmo was a place where the prisoners could be held and questioned free from the restrictions placed by our constituition which is abused by many to get away with their crimes. Now our enemies will be given the same due process as an american citizen if transferred to American soil (Paid for by the American citizen !). These are our enemies. They will maryter themselves to kill americans, not just soldiers, but our women and children. They have an evil hatred towards the US. They can not be reasoned with. They want us dead. 9/11 happened because we didn’t understand the evil we’re facing. And I fear our enemies will view this as victory and view the US as weak. They will think they can strike us again and there will be no consequence. Why did our enemies rejoice and dance when Obama was elected ? Iran is trying to develope nuclear weapons. Iran is practicing launching rockets off of unmarked container ships (rockets with 200 mi range) Why? And what is our country going to do about it?
Posted by: Mike | January 23, 2009, 12:45 am 12:45 am
No way! I know Bush did not win a lot of approval in the Iraq War(and we all could’nt wait to kick ass! We watched SHOCK & AWE and loved it! Who kept us safe after the 9-11 attacks till this day? To let them go Scott-Free? This is going to come back, and I believe, even more powerful! Did everyone forget? They, the terrorists, didn’t think twice to hanging and burning, or worse, what they did to the American soldiers and our journalists on national TV? No way! How can we ever forget? My God! We must never forget! THEY WILL BE BACK! Bad call on Obama. This is scarey!
Posted by: Emily Prendergast | January 23, 2009, 1:02 am 1:02 am
So where is this poll you speak of on Nightline? Not real clear (it could be because I’m tired).
I think closing Guantanamo is LONG overdue! Either we have proof or we don’t – let’s MOVE ON & go back to INNOCENT until proven guilty & not depriving the honest people of their rights (the U.S. has been BEYOND CRIMINAL in their actions here!!)!!
Of course now that “they” are out of power – maybe their fear of the TRUTH coming out about what REALLY went down on 911 & “them” loosing power won’t be as strong!!
Posted by: Vicki Skinner | January 23, 2009, 1:22 am 1:22 am
I say good for Obama and America. Close Gitmo. What are we suppose to do, keep these people in prison forever. If any crimes were committed, then let’s put them on trial. If we don’t have anything on these people, then we have to let them go and I don’t care if the low life’s do hate the United States. How would we feel if Americans were in other countries and they were put in prison and tortured without a trial? It is the United States government responsibility to protect our country with in the guide lines of our criminal system. Keeping them at Gitmo isn’t making the United States any safer. FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! is all the Bush administration preached and Americans fell for it. PUT THOSE PEOPLE ON TRIAL AND GET A CONVICTION IF THEY ARE GUILTY.
Posted by: Pam | January 23, 2009, 3:29 am 3:29 am
We are in for a long, hard road ahead. While I think that Obama’s heart is in the right place and wants to do the right things for America, to close the base at Guantanamo is absolutely ludicrous. How soon we forget what has happened to the journalists and others who were taken hostage,tortured, and brutally murdered by the Muslim extremists in Iraq. By announcing to the world that we will not use torture to gain wanted and needed information from these terrorists is terribly misguided. Does Obama and the rest of the Democratic Congress think that the terrorists will NOT use any form of torture on any captured US military or civilian personnel to gain the information they want? If they do think this, they are living in a dream world. This opens the door for any and all terrorist organizations to run rampant, wreak havack, do what ever they feel, and they will know that we will not use any means of “ill will” (for lack of a better word) to get any information out of them.
As much as I would like to believe in the goodness of all mankind, it is absolutely ludicrous to think that our enemies would not endanger, harm, and torture any of our military or civilian personnel they capture or take hostage simply because we have stated that we will not. It is obsurd.
The known terrorists that are being held at Guantanamo need to be held there and held accountable for their transgressions against our countrymen, our government, and our allies.
Posted by: Chris | January 23, 2009, 5:15 am 5:15 am
While the crimes against our people were despiciable and inhumane, if our nation uses the same methods and torture on them, I think it lowers us to their standards. I think President Obama should take a second look at our prison system and establish more just punishment. That is where the problem lies. When you are serving a prison sentence that means you committed a crime. There is no good reason why someone in prison deserves priviliges such as television, computer access, conjugal visits. For heinious crimes they should lose all rights for the rest of their life. And when someone receives a sentence for life without parol or 20 years, it should be done exactly in that order. No retrials, no early release for good behavior, nothing. You did it, serve the sentence. Give them a Bible, put them in a cell and let them sit there and think about what they did. Don’t let them out to do it again.
Posted by: B_Strickland | January 23, 2009, 9:08 am 9:08 am
911 No one got tortured,It was instant death!!!!
Posted by: amstaffbru | January 23, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm
As a prior military serviceman this is the most inane idea he could have come up with and the most ridiculous slap in the face to the American people ever! Essentially his first order of business was to basically free terrorists and kill our global intel so that some fanatic muslim group can slowly destroy every major city in the US by using suitcase nukes while screaming Alohe Akbar? We’ll have a draft, I’ll be back in some sandbox with my daughter stateside (if she wasn’t in one of the major cities) and Obama will be in a bunker sipping scotch. Thanks Obama!
- A P****d off Marine
Posted by: USMC soon to be active? | January 23, 2009, 2:38 pm 2:38 pm
Keep those terrorists in Guantanamo. We do not need them here in the US. Anyone that thinks they should be taken out of Cuba and put in prisons in the US has bats in their belfry, which most of the Democrats in Washington have proven they have. Send them to Chicago if you put them in US, or send them over to Kenya.
Posted by: William Dean | January 23, 2009, 5:18 pm 5:18 pm
I just don’t get it….whom is this new president trying to protect…..US or the terrorists?
Simply stated—People whom kill and torture US have no rights!!! PERIOD!!!!
We need a STRONG HAND with terrorist….we need to let them know that we mean business…..GET OUT—GET AWAY FROM US!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simply stated—People whom kill and torture US have no rights!!! PERIOD!!!!
It is time for the new President to get it….I do fear the consequences as anywhere in the US, we can experience another 9/11 again….
Could be you this time that may fall victim of a terrorist because our president is be a “nice guy!”
Posted by: Julia | January 23, 2009, 6:03 pm 6:03 pm
I really cant believe how so many people are so ignorant of the fact of jihad. We need to understand that the only way to deal with these people is to defeat them by any means. From now on i wouldn`t take any prisoners. The people in this country have not been informed by the media and that includes abc and the rest of the news media!
Posted by: Al Viggiani | January 23, 2009, 6:10 pm 6:10 pm
i dont think they should have closed gitmo.maybe they will let the prisoners out.and we can go bowling with them.lol.this is totally crazy.is obama and bin laden kin.well guess we will have to keep our eyes open.and ears.i know we could send the prisoners to chicaago.to be on the oprah show.well its lookn closer to the end of time everyday.
Posted by: robert huff | January 23, 2009, 8:46 pm 8:46 pm
For those of you who oppose GITMO, please let the White House know the name of your local prisons so the government can send them there. Or would you rather have the detainees released into soceity.
Posted by: Mark | January 23, 2009, 9:37 pm 9:37 pm
As a Canadian I do not want that terrorist returned to my country.He has identified another terrorist that he saw in training camps in Afganistan.That particular terrorist convinced the Canadian Government that he was tortured when he was shipped back to Syria from a New York terminal when he was on route to Canada from Syria. Since he had become a Canadian citizen, Canada got him freed and returned to Canada.Lawyers got him over 10 million dollars in compensation from the pubic purse because he was tortured in Syria for being part of alkeda. He swore he was not an alkeda.
Surprise,surprise,surprise it turns out he was a terrorist after all and was identified by the one being held in Cuba.The 10 million plus is most likely buying more Taliban weapons as I write this.
Those men are prisoners of war.There needs to be a War Crimes Tribunal and appropriate punishment for the crime if convicted.When the war is over, then if not guilty, they may be returned to their countries.To let them loose anytime before is insane.You don’t win the fight on terrorism by being “soft”.Our governments better soon wake up to this fact.
Posted by: LindyK4fun | January 24, 2009, 1:20 pm 1:20 pm
the president ran on closing Guantanamo Bay and restoring habeas corpus. he came through on his promise. he has stated that he is not interested in sending them to their country of origin.
i have no problem with the terrorists being placed in prisons where i live at all. i trust our military prisons. Timothy McVeigh never escaped.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm
Carol—”unbelievable”…”we elected this guy to office.” obviously you didn’t vote for him so don’t use “we.” he promised to shut down the kangaroo courts and prison at Guantanamo Bay and restore habeas corpus. he kept his promise. we are safer now that we have become once again a country who operates by the rule of law not the hate of the ignorants and hateful.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm
Very Concern Citizen—if you are a “very concerned” and i consider “good” citizen , why do you hope america breaks its own laws and the laws of nations (Geneva Conventions) by practicing torture? UN and International Courts have held that waterboarding is torture. Federal law prohibits the use of torture as does the Army Field Manual.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 1:43 pm 1:43 pm
Al Viggiani—talk about ignorance! do you know there are US and international laws against torture and show trials? if we can’t obey our own laws we can damn well obey the Geneva Conventions and other international laws of which we are signatories.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 3:22 pm 3:22 pm
President Obama does not want “all the terrorists to go free” (or even to Canada). he has never said that and he is not going to do that. prisoners in Guantanamo Bay will be moved to US military prisons. so you, a concerned Canadian citizen, don’t need to worry about what the president will do. he will do what the american people asked him to do two of which are 1) close the prison at Guantanamo Bay. 2) end the use of torture. habeas corpus will also restored.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 5:29 pm 5:29 pm
Susan—interrogation and torture are two very different things. you can feel the difference. there are many effective interrogation techniques which make torture un-necessary. being cruel will not make our nation a better or safer place. in fact, quite the opposite.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 5:35 pm 5:35 pm
I am very proud to be an American citizen as I am sure all of you are also. But over the years, I have seen our troops sent to other countries many times for the wrong reasons to try to enforce them to run their country the way we believe they should run it. A lot of inocent people are killed on both sides. Military and private citizens. 911 was the most horriffic devestation we have suffered on our own home territory from another country attacking us. But someone has to ask the question, how far can we push our beliefs and attack another country before they strike back? 911 answered that question. We have no right to enforce our beliefs on another country. We certainly wouldn’t let another country tell us how to run our’s.
Posted by: B_Strickland | January 24, 2009, 6:07 pm 6:07 pm
B_Strickland, i think your post is very wise. i can only hope we, the US, extricate ourselves from all the countries that we are overtly or covertly involving ourselves with that could potentially create a strong anti-American sentiment. i believe that if we had not supported the Shah of Iran and constantly involved ourselves (meddled) in the Middle East 9/11 would never have happened.
we need to be less involved in others’ affairs except in the case of genocide in which i think the US and UN have an obligation to act.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 24, 2009, 7:30 pm 7:30 pm
Paul Wall I agree with everything that you have said. I’m surprised that only you and a few others think that closing Guantanamo Bay is a good idea. For those of you who are opposed to this, why don’t you trying looking up information on what goes in Guantanamo and the other torture prisons that were set up by George Bush. Do your research and find out the real truth behind these detention centers! There are people in there who are innocent. I’m pretty sure that most of the prisoners in these camps aren’t even terrorist. Give them all a fair trial and lets find out who the real terrorists are. Ending torture is also a good idea. I have heard what torture techniques they have used on the prisoners and what they do is far beyond torture. It is against international law. It’s good to see President Obama cleaning up the mess left by the last administration so quickly. President Obama is doing the right thing and I support him.
Posted by: Dalen | January 25, 2009, 3:35 am 3:35 am
Why does’nt the Country Vote on this matter?After all it is OUR COUNTRY,Accordingly the GOVT. works for US…………….If I’m wrong,please correct me.
Posted by: amstaffbru | January 25, 2009, 8:45 am 8:45 am
When we talk about torture, it is always emotional and our gut instinct is that it is always wrong and I understand that position. But I also know that the enemy the US faces is very different and those responsible for protecting us need to adjust their tactics to the enemy they face. The terrorist today would swim across the ocean and cut your throat if they could. I personally believe that many are already here, waiting inside their “Trojan Horse” for the right time to attack from within while cloaking themselves in our Constitution. We will be tested again and 911 may be dwarfed by the next attack, which even Joe Biden predicted will occur under Obama.
I maintain that when we are in a knife fight, there are no rules. These are people who laugh at international law and conventions and will do whatever is necessary to win. Unfortunately, we cannot behave as boy scouts as they only respect brute force. Those who insist we act like gentlemen in battle are naïve about the reality of war. When it is our cities that are lit with rockets red glare, filled with mushroom clouds of nuclear or dirty bombs some of you may change your tone after the fact. I prefer to error on the side of safety and trust the military professionals to take care of business before then. We can say all we want about the incompetence of Bush, but it is not an accident that we have not been hit in this country since 911
Posted by: Gordon Smith | January 25, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm
Gordon Smith—terrorists laugh at international law, so we do the same? i don’t want these guys and in some cases children being held in guantanamo Bay to walk free in American cities. alot of these people were arrested in Afghanistan and were mere soldiers. torture them all you want and they know nothing, just doing what the Taliban made them do (fight or die at the hands of the Taliban).
we have not been attacked since 9/11 because of extremely effective security not because we torured someone and violated international law and the Geneva Conventions.
what have we become?
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 25, 2009, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
I don’t care about the prisoners. Torture or kill them, buy keep them out of the terrorist loops. Those in this country that evidently grew up in gated commnities around liberally brainwashed parents yell and scream about torture and the death penalty while the ability to legally protect ourselves and families is trivialized. Turn the terrorists loose and let them attack again. Eventually enough Americans will die until we stop hearing all this bleeding hearts junk.
GITMO is more that a POW camp, but since that’s all you hear about on the news..that’s all you want to know. For years GITMO has been used for many things such as refresher training for Navy ships. It has also been responsible for the highest comsumption of formaldehyde-preserved beer, as some other fun stuff….not to mention IT’S DAMN BEACH FRONT PROPERTY! Sure, just give it away, because as soon as the last american leaves it reverts to Cuban control and we can’t go back. So..go save a tree or line up to protest unspade or neutered animals, or do something contructive instead of expressing your opinion. Your teacher in high school was misinformed when she/he told you that you had that right.
Posted by: HowardSteamed | January 26, 2009, 1:06 am 1:06 am
Out of a well-justified desperation for change, and thinking like Americans, Obama, for whom I voted, has made a decision we will live to regret. Certainly we can act like Americans, and eliminate the torture and politics that Bush injected into the detainee custody and tribunals. But closing Camp Delta and relocating the enemy combatants to US soil is a big mistake. It will greatly increase the risk of attack on our soil. Camp Delta/GITMO is both defensible and its location outside the US mitigated the likelihood of attack to free the detainees. I do agree with you, because of Bush’s politics, that the tribunals were perceived as kangaroo courts. However, if the Obama administration chooses to provide proper direction, the tribunals could be effectively used to fairly disposition the enemy combatants. Military justice provides far more rigid adherence to American rights and values than the civilian criminal justice system does. I also agree that interrogation and torture are two very different things. There are many effective interrogation techniques, compatible with the GC, the Law of War, and Army policies and procedures that make torture unnecessary. The rogue Bush administration simply chose to ignore these precepts, but Mr. Obama could easily fix them. I do not accept the argument that just because terrorists fail to comply with any law that we must behave like them. All of the injustices that Bush perpetrated on the American people and the terrorists CAN be fixed WITHOUT closure of Camp Delta and the relocation of the enemy combatants to US soil.
Posted by: Sam | January 26, 2009, 9:51 am 9:51 am
this is just great. lets continue to give the rights to the bad guys. i am so sick of this country. sick of the good people being victims, the bad people having all the rights, the idiots wouldnt even fight for their ‘rights’ since they know that they are in the wrong, its these other …BIGGER idiots that are screaming for their rights. do some investigating of what these people would of been up against in their own countries…or better yet…who is going to go over there where these terrorists are from, and ask their leaders to “be nice” to the americans/military. IDIOTS. IDIOTS AND EVEN MORE IDIOTS BEING RAISED BY THESE IDIOTS.
YOU ARE RUINING THE UNITED STATES. BEFORE LONG…IT WILL BE NOTHING BUT THOSE THAT DO WRONG BUT HAVE FOUGHT FOR THEIR RIGHTS. THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE CREATING FOR EVEN YOUR OWN FAMILIES TO LIVE WITH. in my opinion, until you can respect the rights of others…you dont deserve any rights. period.
can i personally go to washington and ask for a bail out? can someone tell me what window to go to? i want a bailout..i want to bail out of this country before they let this ignorance go to far and the U.S.A. becomes one big population of nothings.
Posted by: kimberly | January 27, 2009, 9:42 am 9:42 am
this little story that i am about to tell you reminds me of all of this “Gitmo” arguement. so Paul Wall…i will address this to you personally.
just recently in the kansas city area, a 4 month old baby died from starvation. the two ‘competent’ parents are probably going to serve some jail/prison time.
why? because they deserve a fair trial. i think this is insane. what rights did the 4 month old have? the right to die in pain?
my solution to this problem i believe would make alot more sense. just take all the ability of these two adults to get any kind of nurishment away from them for 4 months. if they survive, they will have learned a real lesson. if they dont? nothing lost. but putting them in the system for which they have all kinds of rights to every kind of medical attention, 3 square meals a day and visitation from their loved ones just doesnt seem to spell out “PUNISHMENT’ to me. and, by giving them their ‘rights’, it takes away from the rest of us when you figure that we are paying for those rights. i want my rights to spend my hard earned money on what makes my life better and i dont see that closing ‘gitmo’ does anything for my peace or happiness, in fact it adds to my insecurities about my own country.
if you think that these terrorists are worthy individuals, then take them home with you. be responsible for them, feed them and by all means, give them the same rights as we would anyone else who committed acts of violence and crime. its people like you that take the freedom to live peacefully away from the rest of us.
Posted by: kimberly | January 27, 2009, 10:01 am 10:01 am
First, the history lesson. I will only go back as far as the attack on the US Embassy in Tehran in 1979. When the Islamofascists stormed the Embassy in November 1979, they effectively declared war on the US by invading US sovereign territory (the embassy). Under international law, the US has the right to prosecute a war to defend it’s territory. The peanut farmer lacked the ####### to project US military power by informing the invaders that they had a very limited amount of time to remove themselves from US soil or face retaliation. Retaliation would have been extraordinarily simple, 24 empty tubes, one mushroom cloud, Iran back to the Stone Age. The boomer was on station in the Indian Ocean awaiting launch orders, the peanut farmer would not play. Instead, he ordered what became the debacle of Desert One, infusing the Islamofascists with belief that the Great Satan (the US) could be defeated because we lack the stomach to fight for freedom. The election of Ronald Reagan changed that. Message traffic to Iran immediately after the 1980 election indicated that if our citizens were not released before Jan 20, 1981, Reagan’s first order of business would be to order the USMC to invade Iran and retrieve our citizens, as allowed by international law. It is no coincidence that they were released early on the morning of Jan 20, 1981. Since then, the Islamofascists have waited patiently, knowing that Americans are no longer willing to fight for freedom. They struck again, killing 242 Marines and sailors on a peace keeping mission in Beirut, using a truck bomb to accomplish it. All this has lead up to the attacks of 9/11. Before I get to what the Geneva Convention is and is not, I have a question for Paul… what would you have done had you been President on 9/11?
The Geneva Convention talks about how ‘civilized’ countries will wage war, and how prisoners will be dealt with. Under the Convention, members of the opposing force that are captured while in uniform, will be held as prisoners of war and treated humanely. It goes on to specify how they are to be treated. During all wars subsequent to the signing of this document, the US and Great Britain abided by it, the Germans and Japanese did not. US POWs were routinely mistreated, and many died due to maltreatment (Bataan Death March comes to mind). It also says that enemy combatants captured in civilian clothes maybe executed as spies. My personal opinion, all the turds at Gitmo should have been shot attempting to escape. Right now, I’d line ‘em up and execute all of them as spies (allowed under the Convention).
Back to my question… What would you have done as President on 9/11? I would have done exactly what President Bush did. He acted calmly (no point upsetting the children) and left as quickly as was possible. Once airborn in AF One, I would have ordered immediate strikes against all known terrorist havens, nuclear weapons are authorized. I could care less about ‘collateral damage’, you attack my country without warning, you better be ready to reap the whirlwind.
Closing thought… in less than 180 days, we will be attacked again and it will make 9/11 seem like a slap on the wrist. Those of you that supported Obama have signed America’s death warrant, I hope you are happy. But as for me, in the face of murder and terror, the call for peace is not patriotic, it’s cowardice.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Posted by: James W | January 29, 2009, 1:05 am 1:05 am
Another observation. Obama is already moving to silence his critics by forcing the radio stations to quit carrying an opposing viewpoint and by having people fired from their jobs for expressing their opinions. A professor at Wichita State University lost his job because he had the audacity to speak against Obama during the ‘coronation’ and a whiny student felt ‘uncomfortable with the remarks’. Newsflash, baby… life ain’t about fair, the faster you figure it out, the better we will be… but oh wait…I’m sorry, HRH Obama doesn’t want anyone to be uncomfortable… I’m with kimberly, I want a bailout, a one way ticket out of this country, with all our stuff and we want a nice house with a view of the beach, and plenty of room for horses….. :)
Posted by: James W | January 29, 2009, 1:22 am 1:22 am
i realize that there is a huge part of the population that ‘gets by’ on being led like sheep. just take one look at the ‘Rush L.’followers! that should tell ya something! i know how easy it is to become accustomed to leaving the ‘big important issues’ to someone else and then just living happily as a “me too” kind of person. Dont you think its just a bit nieve to think that at this stage of the game we can just resort to “being the bigger nation” like our moms taught us?
isnt it just a bit arrogant for us to think that any one administration or president has kept us safe from further terrorist attacks? lets open up our minds here and just consider the other possibilities as to why there hasnt been any further attacks. do we ‘know’ how much time it took for the 9/11 attack to actually happen from the beginning point and planning, to the actual attack? did it ever occur to anyone how much money this attack on the united states must of cost the terrorist? i mean, they did actually ‘train’ to do the deed (and they did this right under our noses using our rights and freedoms). maybe we havent been attacked again because basically two of their operations failed to ‘hit’ the mark or cause as much destruction as they planned. so maybe they have been using this time to draw upon a better plan, restock and re-supply, gather up the necessities and education…. all the while, getting a ‘bonus’ because our comfort/security of ‘thinking’ that the united states citizens are protected by this new messiah obama (joke) is getting settled in.
Maybe we could even consider that its a direct result of having those terrorists where they are, under what ever conditions the world believes they are living in, that has detoured further attacks….is that a consideration at all? at least those guys arent here drawing up a plan under our noses like before! i like the idea that even if those detainees are to escape, they probably cant make the swim on over to the usa.
it would seem that the attack didnt have the same effect on you as it has many of the rest of us.
many of the deaths caused by the 9/11 attacks were instantainious, many have uncomfortable health effects from post attack residuals like smoke and the debris, and those who have lingering health issues continue to live that attack every day. obviously, you werent one of the many who risked your life to help those in that attack or you would see that bringing those prisoners here within the nations borders is a slap in the face to those heros that were there to search for the living as well as the deceased for a period long after the actual attack.
yet on the other hand, maybe some of our natural born citizens that are doing life without the possibility of parole in our prisons might do us all a favor and just eliminate the whole problem for us once these terrorist enter the prisons. oh, wait a minute, i suppose you think that they should be put in protective custody? that is what kansas did with dennis radar (famed BTK KILLER)! they put him in prison, yet put him in protective custody. now that makes a whole lot of sense, doesnt it?
if you are truly searching for the truth, you need not be so quick to just see things from one side, or from the comforts of your easy chair. talk to the men and women in the military. they dont seem to share your opinions.
you might even want to challenge your preconcieved ideas and ‘google’ up the timothy mcveih story. there are some of us that dont necessarily believe that he was even executed. not that i believe one way or the other, i am just saying that there is enough evidence to ‘question’ what we have been told.
have you ever heard that old saying that “things arent always what they seem”? it always seems to apply in the places where you arent looking for it.
Posted by: kimberly | January 29, 2009, 4:50 am 4:50 am
…sooooooo much BS ! these are terrorist warriors sworn to kill and annhile us….This is war people!! that is , KILL OR BE KILLED , get IT ? They dont like you…dont think being kind and nice to them is ever gonna change them. They long to be martyrs…KILL THEM, before they kill you and your families…. come down from lala land.
Posted by: sam durham | January 30, 2009, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm
The only report on Guantanamo I read, where the people actually went and spent time there, told of how the detainees would say to the guards: “We know your name, your family and where they live. They will die.” If a soldier so much as slapped the prisoner, there were three reported cases when the soldiers’ families were threatened with death, the soldier was disciplined and, at the least, demoted in rank. There are a lot of lies out there and we need to get an on the ground, stay a couple of months, assessment by a balanced panel.
Posted by: Jay | February 2, 2009, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm
Why are we releasing these men? THis is stupidity, we already know that atleast one that was realesed since presidents obamas order of shut down has become a commander of alquaida in Yemen. And im sure they harbor some hate for being detained. We were attacked once under president bush and he had back bone to deal with it, but we are in trouble now, i pray that we will continue in exitstence.
Posted by: Michael Bowman | February 10, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm
The terrorist holding facility at Guantamino Bay was needed when it was opened for it’s current guests. That purpose has been fulfilled. There’s a right way to close Gitmo and a wrong way to do it. In deciding which is which, keep in mind the following: Almost all the people there are terrorists or war criminals. Many participated in a plot to ram 5 airliners into buildings filled with Americans. Many others comitted attrocities against humans on their own soil. Most are not welcome in their own countries. They do not deserve to live on the American taxdollar, and they sure don’t deserve to walk. Unfortunately Obama doesn’t have the guts to close that facility the right way. You wait and see. They’ll be walking free in your towns.
Posted by: rob | February 15, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am