Gitmo Judge Refuses to Heed Obama Request for Delay in Terrorism Trials

9 days and look at all he has done!
I guess we have now have a clear example of “running off half cocked”.

The post leaves out some context from teh judge “The government, Pohl wrote, sought a delay because if cases went ahead, the administration’s review could “render moot any proceedings conducted during the review”; “necessitate re-litigation of issues”; or “produce legal consequences affecting options available to the Administration after completion of the review.”
“The Commission is unaware of how conducting an arraignment would preclude any option by the administration,” said Pohl in a written opinion, which was obtained by The Post. “Congress passed the military commissions act, which remains in effect. The Commission is bound by the law as it currently exists, not as it may change in the future.” ”
The Military Commissions Act is a valid law. The judge is acting in compliance with the law, and Obama is the one who is trying to upset the apple cart.

Separation and independence
of the three branches of
government – the principle
seems to have escaped the
man who couldn’t get his
oath of office right.
****************************************
Last I heard was the Obama was the President and as such was the Commander and Chief of the Military, which at this time has the responsibility of prosecuting these individuals. I think what he intends to do, if possible, to preturn some if not all of these individuals cases in the public courts, where he can return our governemt to the principle of three branches.

“When 0bama caves on this, which he will because he just got owned by reality, watching the massive amounts of cognitive dissonance from the 0-bots”
Well this does provide an excellent opportunity for Obama to claim that he tried his level best to fulfill his pander commitment to Code Pink but he has to obey the rule of law. And it avoids uncomfortable approval rating deflating news stories about GITMO terrorists serving falafel in Manhattan in the summer. If it was Clinton, you know he’d run right through this hole.
On the other hand, I dont know how “Speshul Komment” crowd will accommodate this update. Maybe pillary the judge as a Bush appointee and rush through a new Bill revising the Military Commissions.

Justice rules the land again.
I eagerly await ABC’s coverage of Fielding/Bush/Rove attempting to skirt the law indefinitely. You know that little story, how one branch doesn’t have to answer to another branch?

Oh and this opens up the whole question of whether he can even close GITMO. I love it when lawyers walk into their own trap.

“ALL of a sudden we are overcome with concern regarding a speedy trial? ”
Yes. There have been numerous stories about 9/11 families- some of whom were actually in the court watching in the in progress trial when Obama pulled the plug- being upset about the delays of these trials.

from a January 20th news story:
“Plans to close Guantanamo are not sitting well with one group: Relatives of people killed in the Sept 11 attacks who sat in stunned silence as two alleged terrorists said they were proud of their role in the plot.
The U.S. military brought relatives of three Sept 11 victims to Guantanamo to observe pretrial hearings in the case of five men charged in the plot who could get the death penalty if convicted.
It is a potentially momentous time in the history of Guantanamo. President-elect Barack Obama has said he will close the detention center and many observers, and some officials here, expect he will suspend the war crimes tribunals for accused terrorists and move the trials to the U.S.
The five invited relatives of 9/11 victims oppose such a move.
“Though the wheels are grinding, they are turning here and this place must remain open and justice must be served,” Andrew Arias, whose brother, Adam, was killed in the attacks, told reporters at the base Monday.
“If not here, where?” said Arias, of South River, New Jersey. “Keep it open, let’s get the job done.”
“

BertieW- You are not talking about the subject of this story which is Al-Nashiri – I am.

“If not here, where?” said Arias, of South River, New Jersey. “Keep it open, let’s get the job done.”
I agree, Get’er dun. Justice delayed is justice denied.
(Capture date has little to do with it.Whatever your thoughts on it, trials of combatants could not legitimately begin until the Military Commissions act on the subject was passed by Congress)
Even KSM agrees.
–when told he faced the death penalty, Mr Mohammed said he had been looking to “be a martyr for long time”. We don’t want to waste time,” he added, according to the AFP news agency.

Bottom line, every military member including Joint Chiefs pledge to uphold and defend the US Constitution from threats, both external and internal. If they have a real question about authority in chain of command, including the COMMANDER IN CHIEF, they MUST confirm that authority or they are VIOLATING THEIR PLEDGE! Clearly, because of “res ipsa loquitur” the BURDEN NOW FALLS ON OBAMA TO CONFIRM HIS ELIGIBILITY UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.
OBAMA MUST NOW PRODUCE HIS LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND SHOW HE IS ELIGIBLE TO BE PRESIDENT AND COMMANDER IN CHIEF UNDER ARTICLE 2 OF THE US CONSTITUTION — the reason for “res ipsa loquitur” here is that he has spent approx $1 million fighting numerous lawsuits to see his actual long form birth certificate coupled with statements from others (including his paternal grandmother) witness to birth in Kenya, coupled by statement of Kenyan officials (including ambassador to USA) that it’s widely known he’s born there, coupled with there is ABSOLUTELY NO RECORD, STATEMENT, WITNESS, ANYWHERE SHOWING BORN IN HAWAII, and coupled with Obama’s steadfast refusal, despite lawsuits, to release any documents whatsoever related to his acceptance and attendance at Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School (showing admission as an Indonesian student or otherwise) and no passport records (showing Indonesian citizenship basis to travel to Pakistan). IF ALL THIS STUFF IS NOT BASIS FOR RES IPSA LOQUITUR, NOTHING IS!!!

Parallax View—no one wants these detainees not to have a trial. a military tribunal is not legally a court. separation of powers has no bearing.
nevertheless these military courts were set up and we’ve been waiting over seven years to hear about the progress of their trials. nothing.

Paul, a bit unfair to claim “emotion” as a false argument while leaving out the details of why it has taken so long for the trials to start.
If you want to argue that we should not incarcerate combatants or include the Taliban under Geneva or our criminal justice system do so but I believe that is an emotion based argument also. Certainly not one based in history or precedent.

“you are emotionally manipulated the arguement…”
I disagree- it points out that there is a legitimate constituency with standing the to Code Pink’s demand for indefinite delay.
But lets consider emotional manipulation….
“i see no justice now that it’s time to close Guantanamo Bay in rushing through speedy show trials. they’ve had years to prosecute (where is your concern for families now, making them wait so long for trials). “detainees” have been at Guantanamo Bay for many, many years.”
“now that it’s time”
- begging the question. There is no agreement that this is the time at all. Its only because of BHO politicing that this came up now
“rushing through”
- hardly rushing. And characterizing it as “rushing through” is completely deceptive. The trials were already underway well in advance of the stroke of BHO’s pen and we have been moving to this point for a year. Where is the evidence that anything is being rushed?
“speedy show trials”
Are you arguing that they are slow or speedy? If you are saying that are *overly* speedy you have presented no evidence for that. “Show trial” is ridiculous and emotionally manipulative. Are we supposed to believe that all UCMJ trials that common US soldiers are subject to are ‘show trials’?
“they’ve had years to prosecute ”
The Military Commissions Act was approved in October 2006. The entire process has bogged down by frequent sniping and challenges by radical left wingers (BHO’s base).
“”detainees” have been at Guantanamo Bay for many, many years.”
And in that time they have blown up nothing.

The political party of the judge would matter
in russia

Obama thinks he was elected king, for life. Wait until he comes out with a chest full of metals like all the other tin pot dictators.
What’s there not to understand about co-equal.

“Judges should not do the leaders bidding without judge kinds of reasons”
.. Actually that says it better than my “when his very act of concluding justice is better served by not granting continuance for ongoing trials shows the very judicial independence you would want in face of executive dictat.” Love it.

What is so fascinating is you could substitute Obama’s name for McCain in the post as McCain planned to immediately close GItmo should he get elected . In this case, it doesn’t matter who won the election – the result would be the same.
Unless you are willing to disparage the Republican candidate for President and war hero on this issue – you shouldn’t disparage Obama.
In 2003, Senator John McCain urged the Bush administration to either put Guantanamo Bay detainees “on trial for their crimes or to release them.”

It is absolutely BAFFLING how there could be any argument about the validity of trials for Nashiri, for KSM, and for the other High Value Al Qaeda detainees.
Yes there are maybe some other detainees — Chinese Uighurs, and supposed Bosnia villagers, Algerian cooks, and poor little teenagers playing video games that just happened to be caught on battlefields or finked out by fellow tribesmen for unknown motives. Perhaps THEY should get Saudi or EU “rehab” and heaven help us when they get out.
But that has nothing to do with these main Al Qaeda terrorists, except that in the course of their trials the web of connections may extend to this “dross”.
There is sufficient evidence to hold them for trial and that is the definition of habeus corpus. The military commission can determine for fact and evidence whether interrogations taint any confessions, because those issues could be resolved on appeal.
Ahh, the poor defense attorney see a lot of empty file folders at the arraignment stage. Gee, the methods and facts involved are matters of national security – the evidence is there but that’s why it must be held within a military tribunal where all evidence is not to be public under severe and immediate punishment.

John McCain has NO PROBLEM with their prosecution, though he may prefer their detainment and imprisonment and execution ELSEWHERE. He helped author the 2006 Military Commissions Act.
Next?!

This is where the crazy BO supporters/Democrats attack the judge, scrounge around in his personal life and find anything to use against him.
How dare anyone make Obama look bad.
Even though the left complained about detainees being imprisoned too long w/out a trial.

He’s got a tax cheat as the
Secretary of the Treasury who
has hired an ex-lobbyist from
Goldman Sachs to be his chief
of staff.
The slow-thinking, slow-talking
man who had to take his oath of
office twice has been defending
Geithner and his right-hand man
in the national media.
Nobody’s buying his nonsensical
justifications and pronouncements.

“Far more complicated then your post would suggest. ”
You are the one who did the handwave appeal to Authority. You cant appeal to Authority if the Authority doesnt support your position.
“He got in a lot of hot water with his fellow Republicans regarding his anti-torture stance and ended up selling out.”
How does Military Comissions = torture?

” unnecessary Corpus is holding a susect indefinitely without charges, something which the detainees undoubtedly did not have”
Correction: Habeus Corpus is holding a SUSPECT . . .
I was in too much of a hurry!!

” felt like establishing proof was unnecessary, since the detainees had already confessed”
I have 2 answers for that.
TRUE – yes operational intelligence that served to stop terror actions and rupture the integrity of Al Qaeda cells was INFINITELY more IMPORTANT than getting a conviction on these prisoners
But with the establishment of a Military Commissions Act these terrorists – tell me for historical reference, by the way, how many spies and saboteurs of the Cold War beside the Rosenbergs went thru civilian trials – it became possible and contigent to regularizing the unlawful enemy combatants to proceed.
There is sufficient evidence, read some of the transcripts even the nonsensical claims of Nashiri (linked above) not only about unspeakable torture (probably playing Barry Manilow music) that his boat rental was for fishing and his Al Qaeda involvement was humanitarian in nature only. He is DENYING involvement as any defendant should – but yeah against something called corrobrating evidence.
Let the trial go forward.
Get er done.

“How does Military Comissions = torture?
_________________________________
BertieW – How you got to that I do not know. ”
From this:
Robert said
“John McCain has NO PROBLEM with their prosecution, though he may prefer their detainment and imprisonment and execution ELSEWHERE. He helped author the 2006 Military Commissions Act.”
Then you said:
“He got in a lot of hot water with his fellow Republicans regarding his anti-torture stance and ended up selling out.”
You are the one drew an equivalence between anti-torture and supporting the Military Commissions Act.
Under what legal system they are tried has nothing to do with torture.

The Bush administration had more than 5 years to get the ‘obviously guilty’ tried and couldn’t get it done.
Let’s put the blame where its due. Bush couldn’t get it done.
Now Obama will do it his way. Too bad Bush was so incompetent.

You are the one drew an equivalence between anti-torture and supporting the Military Commissions Act.
Under what legal system they are tried has nothing to do with torture.
__________________________________________
MCCAIN’s anti torture stance Bertie!
It doesn’t matter what legal system they are tried under if the evidence can’t hold up because they were tortured.

Remember what happened to Douglas MacArthur when he defied Harry Truman?
The same thing should happen to this fellow at Guantanamo who’s also defying his Commander in Chief: Obama should fire him.

The ‘public interest in a speedy trial will be harmed’ part of the judge’s statement confuses me. They arrested this guy in March of 2006, how speedy is his trial at this point?

“No records” “records spread thru the executive branch” – which is it?
______________________________________
Surely robert you’ve read about this and can encompass in your mind that in some cases there are ‘no records’ and in some cases the records are ‘spread through the executive branch’. Its not that difficult to wrap your mind around.

smith—what is “emotional” about wondering why combatants, detainees, prisoners of war have been being held going on eight years and we are waiting to hear any verdicts? that is a realistic and legitimate question.

Nashiri was apprehended back in 2002 and sent to Gitmo, which was, by the way, established that year. He had been apprehended in the UAE before he attempted to blow up some buildings there.
So Nashiri was held for over six years without a military tribunal beginning until Dec. of 2008, something unmentioned by the MSM. I fail to understand after 6 years why a 4 month delay is considered such a miscarriage of justice by some.
If I were a family member of one of the USS Cole victims, I would hope the prosecution had a solid case against the perpetrator, and that I wouldn’t be subjected to ambiguities on the justice process because of a premature and disputed trial process. I can’t see an improved closure for the loved ones by rushing through prosecution procedures enacted years after Nashiri was captured.

“you should of course know that the judicial clock only began in 2006 with the Military Commissions Act or even further with “Military Commissions Trial Judiciary Rules of Court issued on 2 November 2007″
________________________________________
If this is true it points again to the complete failure of the Bush administration to get the job done.
It took them over 5 years to get any of this in place, so that the very few trial got off the ground until only a few weeks before the Bush mandate expired.
The Bush administration failed to get the job done; that’s their problem.

It is merely a political case to put Gitmo as incompetence combined with cruelty for a number of reasons that I’ve already outlined.
It simply does not pass the sniff test since we do have real wars and real enemies and real terror – but also that operatives worldwide seemed to have interdicted and infiltrated the terror networks to a degree that cannot be put down to dumb luck — and now that the election is over ALL of us should be united in getting these guys the justice they deserve and some of them ask for.

And yet I argue that interdiction of terror is the PRIORITY and NOT execution of just desserts which you ALWAYS overlook.
Executing these criminals or repatriating the Uighurs or even “bring Osama to justice” pales in comparison to the securing of national interests, present and future homeland safety, and the promotional of international stability AND freedom.
Obama gave away the store to autocratic Arabs in his recent interview, he plans some obfuscation with Iran in the near future.
I will await Obama’s successes wholeheartedly because they will be America’s successes. I will not gamble with an obvious partisan “moral relativist” who deconstructs and parses his way out of definitions and consequences.

ryan c …No the worst President in history was Jimmy Carter when he sat by and watched 52 U.S. diplomats taken hostage, and tortured, for 444 days by a group of Islamist students in support of the Iranian revolution…one of which is now the leader of Iran that Obama wants to talk with…Carter all over again…

Do you mean the “totalitarian right wingers” that just gave up power peacefully?
Or the evil Congress that passed all the national security legislation and authorization of foreign action?
Or agents of Darth Vader’s imperium like militarists Robert Gates, Blair and Gen Jones all of whom are serving our current presidents
Those “Totalitarian right wingers”, hah??

“No the worst President in history was Jimmy Carter when he sat by and watched 52 U.S. diplomats taken hostage, and tortured, for 444 days by a group of Islamist students in support of the Iranian revolution”
Yes if only he had bought off the Iranians and later sold them weapons like Reagan.
George Bush is the worst President in history.
We went from budget surpluses and a focus on balanced budgets (by both parties) to enormous budget deficits.
The national debt doubled to an absurd $13 Trillion.
He read My Pet Goat and disappeared for the day while 3000 Americans died and a nation was horrified.
He started a war to go after those who attacked us only to get bored and start a new war based on lies.
Our standing in the world in education & health care standards has continued to fall.
The DOJ was politicized.
The Constitution was routinely ignored.
The weakening of our regulatory bodies led to lead paint in our children;s toys, food borne illnesses and mining disasters.
Oh and he was also the biggest vacation President, spending a full 1/3 of his Presidency at Camp David, Crawford or Kennebunkport.
I have more, I just don’t have the time to write down all the failure of George W. Bush.

“Do you mean the “totalitarian right wingers” that just gave up power peacefully?”
You say that like it was a bit of magnanimity on Bush’s part.
How frightening.

After 9 years (since USS Cole bombing), this judge is worried that an extra five months will “harm the public interest in a speedy trial”???
Why was there no trial earlier? Because GITMO is a permanent holding tank, never intended to edudicate justice. All the world can see this.
For any trial to have merit, it needs to be held in a US court with some legitamacy. Pole will end up martyring this hi-profile terrorist and make him an example for Al Qaida to recruit a thousand more.

“KSM” is the only source–third hand–for much of the 9/11 Commission Report. How many other plots did he confess to? How will you “try” him now that he has been tortured out of his mind?

We should give them the same kind of trial we would receive if we were being held in Iran or Syria. They should have been capped in the field as a cost reduction to the American taxpayer.

Deborah, that seems pretty easy and obvious to explain. Bush rushed into these “trials” and threw together a hasty set of rules for them. What Obama (speculating because I’m not in his head) is proposing is a halt to review the rules that they are operating under.

People won’t be happy if this goes to court before a new administration has enough time to thoroughly prepare. Another 120 days seems reasonable in the circumstances. We don’t want an innocent man held. And we sure don’t want a guilty man released. What if denying a new administration enough time means a new attack? I think the judge might have been more prudent.