Obama Leaves Door Open (a Bit) On Prosecuting Bush Officials
During my exclusive interview with President-elect Barack Obama airing Sunday morning on "This Week" I asked the president-elect to respond to a one of the most popular questions on his own website, www.Change.gov.
"Will you appoint a Special Prosecutor — ideally Patrick Fitzgerald — to independently investigate the gravest crimes of the Bush administration, including torture and warrantless wiretapping?" asked Bob Fertik of New York who runs the Democrats.com website.
Fertik submitted the question to Obama’s "Open for Questions" portion of the site, and later to us when he didn’t receive a response.
During his presidential campaign, Obama left the door open to a special prosecutor, so I asked him to respond to Fertik’s question.
Here was Obama’s answer:
PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA: "We’re still evaluating how we’re going to approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. And obviously we’re going to look at past practices. And I don’t believe that anybody is above the law. On the other hand, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards. And part of my job is to make sure that for example at the CIA, you’ve got extraordinarily talented people who are working very hard to keep Americans safe. I don’t want them to suddenly feel like they’ve got to spend all their time looking over their shoulders and lawyering up.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: "So no 9/11 Commission with independent seeking of power?"
OBAMA: "Well we have not made any final decisions but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward, we are doing the right thing. That doesn’t mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation’s going to be to move forward," Obama said.
STEPHANOPOULOS: "So let me just press that one more time. You’re not ruling out prosecution, but will you tell your Justice Department to investigate these cases and follow the evidence where it leads?"
OBAMA: What I — I think my general view when it comes to my attorney general is that he’s the people’s lawyer. Eric Holder’s been nominated. His job is to uphold the Constitution and look after the interests of the American people. Not be swayed by my day-to-day politics. So ultimately, he’s going to be making some calls. But my general belief is that when it comes to national security, what we have to focus on is getting things right in the future as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past."
–George Stephanopoulos
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Obama will let them walk, as expected. Failure to prosecute will make him complicit.
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/forgive-and-forgetforget/
Posted by: dragon | January 11, 2009, 9:35 am 9:35 am
If the Dems want to lose in 2010 and 2012- by all means start the witch hunts. That will do so much to unite the Republicans and conservatives of the party and kill any bipartisanship that is left in Congress.And I’m sure Pelosi and Reid have more important things to do like protecting their Democratic corript Rangel, Dodd and Frank who have a ethics cloud over them but are still committee chairs. So as someone once said’ Bring it on’.
Posted by: jschmidt | January 11, 2009, 11:40 am 11:40 am
There is no question that the people who committed torture — people who killed detainees, for example, as well as those who physically assaulted them — need to be prosecuted and punished. Period. There is no alternative. I hate to be absolutist, but if we want torture to take place in the future, we should ignore the past. If we want to prevent torture, we should deal with the past so we don’t repeat it.
Posted by: teo | January 11, 2009, 11:57 am 11:57 am
My how we throw out words like “torture” without even knowing what the word means. Good thing that Islamic extremists don’t use torture…
Let’s just prosecute our military. Yup, that’s the ticket!
Posted by: FederalFred | January 11, 2009, 12:09 pm 12:09 pm
Seriously go after a President that had no choice but protect his nation would be a very foolish action. But of course in America everything is possible. Are we really so naive to worry for enemies that would have tortured and slaugther our people without a thought? Do we forget that soon the victims of 9/11 and many others since? What an achievement for the greatest democracy in the world.
Posted by: karga | January 11, 2009, 12:17 pm 12:17 pm
I think that JSchmidt is right. Attempting to prosecute Bush or any members of the intelligence community would only galvanize the opposition.
We will eventually get the truth, but it does not need to be a priority to the Obama Administration in his first term.
Posted by: ScottNM | January 11, 2009, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm
Reid and Murtha need to stand trial for treason. Despite these comical cretins, we have been safe since 9/11. Bush may not please everyone, but let’s remember, Congress overwhelmingly voted to kick Sadam’s arse as well as seek out fundies in Afghanistan. Detainees as a result were sent to camps where they receive 3 meals a day, baths, Korans, whatever. Who’s the bad guy here?
Posted by: FederalFred | January 11, 2009, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm
Hello Good morning America my favorite show,why Torry Johnson doesn’t have email? or we i click email from her site , it is not going thorough ? how can i contact her for Job or Job at home? I love you all & i like to know were is Same ?
Posted by: farah | January 11, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm
Mr. George Stephanopoulos, I like and believe your opinion & any interviews with anyone from both PARTY because you do your job for your COUNTRY=AMERICA. Spcially you have been work under CLINTON times.
I wish OBAMA HUSSEIN BARRACK =ERIC HOLDER will prosecute BUSH Officials because AMERICAN will sorry….and they find out somethings were hiden:
-Eric Holder helped CLINTON …not IMPEACHMENT
-Eric Holder helped Marc Rich…who …helped CLINTON..
-If CLINTON was IMPEACHMENT then HILLARY did not have chance to become NY Senate= no chance was picked…by OBAMA.
I think CLINTON made WHITE HOUSE got a …SPOT so now the WHITE HOUSE become a FUN HOUSE. Am I wrong?
Posted by: phoqh | January 11, 2009, 1:26 pm 1:26 pm
I wonder if any of the families of killed service men or women would allow some type of torture if it would bring their family member back? If it takes cutting the b**ls off one of those ba*t*rds to get info on where IED’s are placed then start cutting. Bleeding heart liberals will the end of this country.
If any type of prosecution takes place it should be pointed towards wallstreet.
Posted by: randy shumaker | January 11, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm
Yes, absolutely. Go after Bush and Cheney for 1. Lying to the American people for the purposes of engaging this country in an act of illegaly invading a sovereign nation. 2.Being wholly complict in outing a CIA agent. An act of TREASON punishable by death.3. Authorizing warrantless wiretapes. And 4. Authorizing torture. If some of you don’t know what “torture” is, let someone waterboard you and get back to me. Anything less than investigation and prosecution will be an embarrassment to this country, and a major act of perfidy by the Obama Administration.
Posted by: onlinesavant | January 11, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm
Prosecute Bush & Cheney, FIRST!!!!
Posted by: sisterdearest09 | January 11, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
“I wonder if any of the families of killed service men or women would allow some type of torture if it would bring their family member back? If it takes cutting the b**ls off one of those ba*t*rds to get info on where IED’s are placed then start cutting. Bleeding heart liberals will the end of this country.If any type of prosecution takes place it should be pointed towards wallstreet.” Posted by: randy shumaker | Jan 11, 2009 1:35:32 PM
Except that it’s been known for over 100 years that torture doesn’t produce good information, it doesn’t work. But why expect logic from a reactionary? Also, your grammar is atrocious. Have you ever had an original thought in your entire life? Did evolution bring us this far to make you?
No, we must prosecute Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Rice, Yoo, Rove, Miers, and everyone else knowingly involved in the crimes they authorized.
Posted by: Matt Janovic | January 11, 2009, 1:53 pm 1:53 pm
There will be one, unlikeable fall guy that will suffer a token prosecution by the Obama administration. Bush, like Reagan, will have “memory lapses” and survive special prosecution with ease.
Posted by: thelawtoday8 | January 11, 2009, 2:08 pm 2:08 pm
Look? our country is divided 50/50 on many things, especialy on religion, the for fathers had it right when keeping it out of our goverment, unfortunutly not all its in our courts, swear on the bible so help you god. what ngod whos god should not be there. on our money should not be there! whos god what god.supposed gods and suposed rules of gods and lunitics right and left are the main causes of all the wars and conflicts of all time. if you took gos and especially religon out of the sinaryo, we would all be so much more concerned and caring to all those around us. we should not be citisens of the our countries but citisins of the world first, if a god as you all say created every thing in our world and the universe than why should we follow like lemings and kill those we disagree with just to satisfy a certain rule of a certain god, our forfathers came to america, with the suposed reson of religous freedom, what freedom ? you simpiltons argue that barroks hussain barrama, must be muslim and so can possibly be our president and yet you numbskulls, spout religious fredom, but if its a religion you dont like the hell with them , well sirs and madem idgits if you are a citizen of the supposed great country , you can be anything you want or strive too be. those are the rules my, but of course people like you pick and choose what rules to follow /// as did pres. bush , chaney rumsfeld, rice and the rest of the administration, but those that had the sense to say hell no!!! and got out. So us the other half you say, but not half on these war crimes, more like 70%, believe in the rule of law , thats what this country is governed by so we believe everyone has to follow the laws or suffer the conciquinces, but you all go back to the pick and chose . well we all believe the rules are for us all! even the, no most of all our elected officils, wake up get your collective heds out of your collected arses?
Posted by: mark w | January 11, 2009, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm
Look? our country is divided 50/50 on many things, especialy on religion, the for fathers had it right when keeping it out of our goverment, unfortunutly not all its in our courts, swear on the bible so help you god. what ngod whos god should not be there. on our money should not be there! whos god what god.supposed gods and suposed rules of gods and lunitics right and left are the main causes of all the wars and conflicts of all time. if you took gos and especially religon out of the sinaryo, we would all be so much more concerned and caring to all those around us. we should not be citisens of the our countries but citisins of the world first, if a god as you all say created every thing in our world and the universe than why should we follow like lemings and kill those we disagree with just to satisfy a certain rule of a certain god, our forfathers came to america, with the suposed reson of religous freedom, what freedom ? you simpiltons argue that barroks hussain barrama, must be muslim and so can possibly be our president and yet you numbskulls, spout religious fredom, but if its a religion you dont like the hell with them , well sirs and madem idgits if you are a citizen of the supposed great country , you can be anything you want or strive too be. those are the rules my, but of course people like you pick and choose what rules to follow /// as did pres. bush , chaney rumsfeld, rice and the rest of the administration, but those that had the sense to say hell no!!! and got out. So us the other half you say, but not half on these war crimes, more like 70%, believe in the rule of law , thats what this country is governed by so we believe everyone has to follow the laws or suffer the conciquinces, but you all go back to the pick and chose . well we all believe the rules are for us all! even the, no most of all our elected officils, wake up get your collective heds out of your collected arses?
Posted by: mark w | January 11, 2009, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm
I think it would cause a rift with gop and the dems if we start going after the gop for things they did while in office.So what !Do we let robbers or killers off because someone migth vote difer in 2012
Posted by: Daniel orr | January 11, 2009, 2:43 pm 2:43 pm
Obama’s general direction seems to be to wipe the slate clean. Bush officials were operating by an extremely misguided principle and Obama knows that. Perhaps that principle was even unconstitutional, but Obama makes it clear that it is not part of his active agenda to go after crimes of the previous administration. I believe there would have to be a much larger public movement to prosecute. Otherwise Obama is afraid of distracting from his larger mission of building a bipartisan coalition government.
Posted by: Dan J | January 11, 2009, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm
also, bush or cheney will never be charged ,let alone tried for anything they did in office .just like nixon got away so would they.even if charged thier money would keep it in the court longer they would live
Posted by: Daniel orr | January 11, 2009, 2:50 pm 2:50 pm
It will not be Obama that pushes it. But Pelosi and Reid. If they don’t have a turnaround of the economy in 6 months, look for them to start hearings on the Bush Administration to take the focus away from their incompetence. Then they’ll spend months on the hearing, not proving anything but since media is left leaning the headlines will be big and the lefty commentators will be condemn the Republicans in the press and continue to do it until 2010. In the end, nothing will be proven, but the Dems will have their headlines and the appearance like they did something. And through it all Pelosi and Reid will protect their corrupt politicians, Rangel, Frank and Dodd.
Posted by: jschmidt | January 11, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
I think that Obama as well as Reid and Pelosi, the powers behind the throne, realize that prosecuting Bush officials would be, to say the least, impractical. The only real result would be a political bloodletting every time the government changed hands between one party and the other. This is the whole reason that (good or bad) civil service jobs are protected.
Posted by: Publius | January 11, 2009, 3:43 pm 3:43 pm
i think the best thing is for the UN to hand up indictments and the cases can be tried in the International UN Court in The Hague. that we do not follow our own laws (and the political considerations in the US inhibit prosecution here) makes an international court the ideal path to persue torture and extraordinary rendition. waterboarding is considered torture in international law and so is extraordinary rendition. we do not better ourselves as a nation by torturing. and as has already been pointed out torture does not yield meaningful information just false confessions and whatever the torturer wants the prisoner to say.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 4:07 pm 4:07 pm
FederalFred—have you been waterboarded, sir? have you been tortured? it’s easy to be a torcherer and torcher others. but what kind of pain would you be willing to endure before you call it torture, sir?
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 4:09 pm 4:09 pm
Given that “torture” occurred before 2005, why is nobody mentioning that Colin Powell, Richard Armitage, and George Tenet need to be impeached also?
You stupid, stupid people!
Posted by: elixelx | January 11, 2009, 4:29 pm 4:29 pm
“FederalFred—have you been waterboarded, sir?”
Nope. Haven’t been beheaded either, dude.
“have you been tortured?”
Nope, and none of the detainees have either. Humiliation is not torture, pumpkin.
“it’s easy to be a torcherer and torcher others. but what kind of pain would you be willing to endure before you call it torture, sir?”
Unless you’ve got some sort of evidence that we have maimed, killed, or crippled prisoners of war, save your keystrokes. Our service men and women are not afforded any privileges that we provide prisoners of war. Have you served, sir?
Posted by: Stan | January 11, 2009, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
My apologies to Fred for jumping in…
Posted by: Stan | January 11, 2009, 4:43 pm 4:43 pm
I’m still a bit fuzzy on what charges anyone could press against W. Is acting on deficient intel a punishable offense? Can we indict virtually all of Congress, too?
Maybe W deliberately lied like Clinton did, but I haven’t seen it. A link would be appreciated.
Posted by: Donald | January 11, 2009, 4:52 pm 4:52 pm
Stan, the article is about prosecution for illegal wire tapping and torture. Some think that Bush was listening in on Grandma when she was discussing her fruit cake recipe. Of course these same people are ecstatic about the fact that dozens of would be terrorist acts were thwarted by “illegal” wire tapping.
It’s my opinion that those who object to our operations directed at catching terrorists are probably cooking meth in their garage.
Posted by: Tex | January 11, 2009, 5:01 pm 5:01 pm
Stan—”have you been tortured?”. yeah i have but not waterboarding. just the kind that leaves scars. most people who advocate torture have never been tortured. don’t address me with a question and then speak for me. that’s not cool, man.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm
Stan—just so you know torture is something that happens outside a controlled situation. you don’t get sedation or anesthesia, pumpkin. but what would you know. obviously you’ve been waterboarded to imply it’s no big deal. if you have been waterboarded i apologize for my comment.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 5:23 pm 5:23 pm
Sisterdearest09,Your comment!
(No, we must prosecute Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Rice, Yoo, Rove, Miers, and everyone else knowingly involved in the crimes they authorized.)
I do believe that they should also prosecute Bill clinton and his admin. for also bombing Iraq!!!! while they are at it, get Pelosie,Reid,Frank, Freddie Fannie exec. and the rest of them, it is not all “This admin”, they are all doing wrong. Wake up!!!
Posted by: ML | January 11, 2009, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
onlineslobant…it goes both ways..
Yes, absolutely. Go after Clinton and Gore for 1. Lying to the American people for the purposes of engaging in sex and collecting illegal funds from China 2. lying under oath 3. granting pardons to criminals in exchange for favors and money. Anything less than investigation and prosecution will be an embarrassment to this country, and a major act of perfidy by the Obama Administration.
Posted by: Badboy | January 11, 2009, 5:41 pm 5:41 pm
I think that the Left-wing America and Pres. Bush haters had better hope that no one tries to indite President Bush. I can garantee it will generate a backlash against the Left.
Posted by: we_are_not_amused | January 11, 2009, 5:42 pm 5:42 pm
For those questioning torture- let’s say there is a nuke set to go off in 24 hours in a major city in the US. There is 1 terrorist that knows the location you have captured him. What do you do? Call any family you have to get out of town? Get out of town yourself? Or torture? Which one is the appropriate response? Just a little idea to think on.
Posted by: jschmidt | January 11, 2009, 6:05 pm 6:05 pm
I believe Obama’s response is quite clear. No one is above the law. It is about time.
Posted by: sensealot | January 11, 2009, 6:10 pm 6:10 pm
sensealot-that doesn’t seem to apply to Frank, Dodd and Rangel.
Posted by: jschmidt | January 11, 2009, 6:23 pm 6:23 pm
I’m sure you finished, Paul. Please retire while you’re…ummmm, well behind.
Posted by: Stan | January 11, 2009, 7:28 pm 7:28 pm
Paul doesn’t quite grasp reality. Leave him alone, Stan.
Posted by: Exmo | January 11, 2009, 7:32 pm 7:32 pm
“—”have you been tortured?”. yeah i have”
Let’s hear it, sugar cakes.
Posted by: Stan | January 11, 2009, 7:36 pm 7:36 pm
Stan—through torture i experienced incomprehensible pain and i have plenty to show for those experiences. you and Exmo get off on humiliating and denigrating people you disagree with. your making fun of people as if you were some kind of ill-behaved second-grader makes it all the more apparent that you say what you say and have no desire to engage in meaningful debate. like you are a magna-cum-laude from the Rush Limbaugh Institutre for Advanced Conservative Studies. you very well could have reasd my original post and made an honest effort at disagreement. but you and Exmo are always right and everyone else is wrong. that’s not engaging.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 8:05 pm 8:05 pm
Exmo—Stan is doing fine. he doesn’t need your help. if you want to say something to me say it. there is nothing more REAL than torture, nothing on earth. it’s easy to make fun of people and have nothing constructive to say. do you teach your kids to make fun of people with physical defects. you’re not making a very good impression on this blog. i’m just trying to have an honest conversation.
you, Stan and FederalFred all seem to speak for each other. what’s up with that? just address me individually. or do you guys fight three to one?
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 8:10 pm 8:10 pm
Stan—”I’m sure you finished, Paul. Please retire while you’re…ummmm, well behind.” way too young to retire. not all victims of torture are tortured in the military. and not all people who serve their country and pay a price for that are soldiers.
“Let’s hear it, sugar cakes.”—honestly what do you mean. i don’t agree with you so i’m gay. instead of caling me cutsie second-grade-school-girl names why not just call me a f*g like you want to.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 8:16 pm 8:16 pm
Why are we not including Paul Bremer as well?
Posted by: turtle | January 11, 2009, 8:16 pm 8:16 pm
The liberal left would rather have thousands of Americans die a horrific death rather than pour a little water in some terrorists face. I look at the nominees to Obama’s cabinet & all I can say is God help us. I can still say God for now can’t I?
Posted by: Rainier L. Wolfcastle | January 11, 2009, 9:12 pm 9:12 pm
Rainier L. Wolfcastle—i would never hope for the death of thousands of americans. people who disagree aren’t traitors. torture yields abyssmal results. i think the detainees ahould be charged and prosecuted. i find it hard to believe that after 7 years the vast majority have had no charges brought against them. you would figure after 7 years we would have tons of information yielded. instead we just have a bad human rights record and no serious actionable intelligence.
if the US is attacked again it won’t be because we didn’t torture people.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 11, 2009, 9:31 pm 9:31 pm
Paul Wall – A major attack of LA Airport was thwarted due to water boarding. You are clueless and uninformed.
Posted by: Rainier L. Wolfcastle | January 11, 2009, 9:44 pm 9:44 pm
Actually, we gained quite a bit of actional intel from the coerced interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
In March 2007, after four years in captivity, including six months of detention at Guantanamo Bay, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — as it was claimed by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal Hearing in Guantanamo Bay — confessed to masterminding the September 11th attacks, the Richard Reid shoe bombing attempt to blow up an airliner over the Atlantic Ocean, the Bali nightclub bombing in Indonesia, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and various foiled attacks.
Any you say water boarding doesn’t work.. Silly liberal.
Posted by: Hondo | January 11, 2009, 10:08 pm 10:08 pm
For those that think water boarding doesn’t work:
According to a CNN interview with intelligence expert Rohan Gunaratna, “Daniel Pearl was going in search of the al Qaeda network that was operational in Karachi, and it was at the instruction of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that Daniel Pearl was killed.”[33] On October 12, 2006, Time magazine reported that “Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confessed under CIA interrogation that he personally committed the murder.” On March 15, 2007, the Pentagon released a statement that Mohammed had confessed to the murder. The statement quoted Mohammed as saying, “I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan. For those who would like to confirm, there are pictures of me on the Internet holding his head.”
Posted by: McBain | January 11, 2009, 10:13 pm 10:13 pm
Say what you want but Bush has keep up from being attacked again and this is the thanks he gets? What on earth is Obama thinking? Does he care more about pandering to his far left base or protecting the American people?
Posted by: dlc | January 11, 2009, 11:07 pm 11:07 pm
Be Very Careful Mr President Elect!
Once the Genie is out of the bottle
you can’t put it back in!
The Republicans will be back in power
some day and payback is a Bitch!
If you want to prosecute someone start
with your Secretary of State designate,
Hillary Clinton, then go to your
VP-Elect, Joe Biden and the rest of
your Democrat colleagues in the
Congress who went along with the
decision to invade Iraq and kept yelling
about the WMD that Saddam had!
You’d better move forward and don’t
listen to the leftwing kooks in your
Party.
Posted by: reaganfan | January 11, 2009, 11:27 pm 11:27 pm
Dear Mr. Obama cannot say what he will do and then scare all the bandits out to hide and destroy all evidences. He must act as a President, watching the whole picture of our country and directing the atorney general to apply the law, as he said. Now, if he dosent follow thru to his promeses about making sure nobody is avobe the law, we have a problem, I wont vote for him again, period.
Posted by: Armando Navarro | January 12, 2009, 12:07 am 12:07 am
firstly “badboy”, I doubt that you could even give me the definition of “perfidy”.Secondly. When are you right-wing hacks going to get off the Clinton horse. You do realize that he has’nt been president for over eight years, and I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of the country would take the Clinton years over the unelected one’s any day.As a matter of fact, Clinton left office with a 69% approval rating. What is the un-elected one’s approval rating as he is leaving?
Posted by: Onlinesavant | January 12, 2009, 1:05 am 1:05 am
1/
-I did not go voting for ELECTION 08 but I am sure I will do it in 2012. I did not want to waste my vote and my time! Because I was sure Democrat will get “ALL”. Because:
-Americans were very tired about WAR: waste money…loose someone who they love(althought President Bush and his Administration did the RIGHT things=to protected their “HOME”=AMERICA and their “CHILDREN”=AMERICANS after 9/11/2001. He was President on Jan. 20/2001. He did a good job but …they(voters) do not care…then they(voters forgot 9/11). So Democrat got it! After 9/11, war from Afga., Iraq…many country find out their enemies=terorists lived in their land but they did not know untill their land were attacked! Then they pay more attentions. Who do they need to say THANKS? George W Bush.
2/
-I am not suprise about Obama Hussein Barrack’s answers “FLIP FLOP” because:
*He was a Attorney=Attorneys tell lies(if they want) but they show…
believe them! That is advantages where he graduated- gave for him.
*He was a real politician. Politicians..tell lie when they need.
3/
-BUT I am suprise: in interview . .he may open…PROSECUTE Bush and…Let we see in the future.
-Anyway, like OB or not we wish him will be sucessful. We wait from his promises while he campain.
-Do you agree his first few weeks before take a oath…TOO MESSY!!!!I can tell WHITE HOUSE=FUN HOUSE now.
-Do you recongnize: why Democrat has many Attorneys? And why Republican has many Army and Business?
-It is funny–I just recongnize right now: our next President and Vice President have their names:
*Obama Hussein Barrak/Sadam Hussein
*Joe Biden=Osama Bin Laden(take off n+l+a=Osama Biden
CONCLUSION:our next President’s name
Obama(L) = Osama Bin Laden
Hussein(M)= Hussein Sadam
Barrak(F) = same name….who against US
Posted by: phoqh | January 12, 2009, 6:27 am 6:27 am
Paul, please be advised that the US has gained extremely valuable information through the use of waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and other non-injurous techniques. This has resulted in saving US lives. Why you want us to lose is beyond me.
Posted by: Stan | January 12, 2009, 7:23 am 7:23 am
@Paul,
I was in the Marine Corps, my brother was a POW in Vietnam(in ways, still is). I go to visit him regularly and I see many many Vets. I have noticed 1 thing from all these people. NO MATTER how horrible their experiences was, you CAN NOT get them to talk about it.
My father-in-law was in WWII and Korea and saw a lot of action(know this from Silver Star and Purple Heart). He never talked about the War. Could not get him to.
So, it is hard for me to believe that you were really tortured. If you were, you are one of the first people I have ever seen or talked to that wanted to share it. Especially, with strangers.
Posted by: ajax | January 12, 2009, 9:47 am 9:47 am
If he does go on a partisan witch hunt, we won’t be able to staff our military, the CIA, our intelligence agencies. Smart people will realize their leaders will use them for political fodder instead of protecting them so they can do their jobs so they will say no to government service. I pity the fools that will let the dems grind them up
Posted by: Dave | January 12, 2009, 9:48 am 9:48 am
Why dont you give the man a chance to get into the White House. Bush is now pres why not rag him about this. We are allagainst torture. Stop and let us consider what time it is. Thank you
Posted by: Avalon | January 12, 2009, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm
“you would figure after 7 years we would have tons of information yielded”
———————————-
Obviously your a complete novice when it comes to this. What we learned, exactly how we learned it, and how many attacks/lives here and abroad were saved is NEVER going to be a part of the public record.
Certainly there will be some leaks, some people will try to make a buck off selling what little they know, but the real story will remain classified for a very long time. Then when documents are realeased under the freedom of information act, there will still be many pages painted in black.
I have stated this here many times, You cannot win if your playing by a set of rules, and your enemy is play with NO rules. I am constantly amazed at how many people are nieve or just plain stupid to think that when you fight an enemy that plays by NO rules, that you can somehow win by being the good guy and only playing by a set of “civilized” rules of engagement.
As far as so-called “torture” goes, I would ask each and every person to think this through before they decide just how high on the moral ladder they think we need to be.
If your child or spouse were taken, their life threatened & a deadline was approaching, would you “torture” a person who could help save your loved one? Or would you let your family member die rather than press a suspect who culd save them?
If you can truthfully say you would sacrifice your family for your moral standing on “torture”, you are thew only one who should be criticizing the current administration.
After 9/11, we were all, repeat ALL, asking our government to do whatever is necessary to keep us and our families safe.
If your unwilling to stomach that at time it is going get a bit nasty to perform that duty, then by all means feel free to volunteer to sacrifice yourself and your family in the next attack.
It would be wonderful if everyone in the world would fight their battles by a nice set of rules. That world does not exist!
Posted by: Mike_C | January 12, 2009, 1:02 pm 1:02 pm
Hopefully then Holder will grant Bush the same pardon he gave Marc Rich.
Then again, I can think of a bunch of Democrats who are going to need those pardons too.
Posted by: drjohn | January 12, 2009, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm
ajax—i am sorry to hear about your brother. the only reason i mention torture here and my experience (which i wouldn’t release details about and likewise have no desire to talk about it) is the same reason many who have experience torture feel the need to talk about it. so that the country we love doesn’t practice it.
perhaps your brother doesn’t like to be reminded of his torture and experiences with waterboarding. and that should be indicative of what torture does to people. your brother was an innocent soldier in a war where he was tortured. the VA isn’t exactly a model for providing therapy for soldiers who are tortured, even now.
i would never mention my own experience except that it is important for people who mouth off about torture have some clue about what they are talking about. the details are mine and i wouldn’t share them with anyone outside my family, doctor or close friends.
that you don’t believe me or think i am not sincere is regrettable and sad. that you think i would make something like torture up to make a cheap point in a debate shows where we are as individual and as a society. but i cannoy worry about what you think of me. all i can tell you is i know what torture is and not only in an abstract way.
i hope that your brother is still with you. and it is never too late to get help from the psychological trauma and emotional sequelae of torture. as you know the physical consequences of torture exist too. and that is a source of shame for many as well.
and it isn’t easy to mention my experience. i’m certain that if your brother were to read on this blog that torture is nothing and let’s all suck it up he might be angry and feel betrayed. which is how i felt and compelled me to write in.
thanks for your service to our nation and your family’s service and endurance as well.
in a way i think your posting about your family’s experieence (a very private matter) is noble. you showed how torture can ruin people for life. that’s something few people who advocate the use of torture are completely unaware of.
peace and blessings.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 12, 2009, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm
ajax—”Especially, with strangers”. it is easy to express strong feeling on the internet because it is so impersonal and easy to remain detached. if all the posters on this blog were to meet personally in a convention or hotel or college debate i imagine people would be much more civil.
also i forgot to mention Senator McCain and his discussion of his own torture. i imagine that was difficult for him, very difficult. in fact i know it must have been.
he shared it for the greater good. and i am glad Obama will have a friend in McCain when he seeks to ban the practice of torture bt our great country.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 12, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm
stan stan ,jschmidt, and your new leader phogh, whom ill call pooh cause his head up his jar, now that I’ve got your attention, boys & girls and others , oh yeah i forgot i need to apologize for my spelling, I’m dyslexic and on top of that was emotional and forgot to spell check, and this is mark w again, ill try to do better.
listen ! the point seems to just be passed over, or ignored but it cannot if we wish to be the people we profess to be!!! rules are rules and this land our country is based on the rule of law, you seem to want to pick and chose the rules and laws as did the members of gw’s admin. have chosen to do. We hold for instance 25% of all the prisoners in the world in our prisons, you want to give a 5 year sentence to a guy for smoking a joint, but our elected officials you want to let follow only the laws they wish to based on any excuse. I and the 70% like me only want equal justice for all, they need to follow all the rules / ideas/ laws and pledges that we as a country make or decree, we want all the heretic’s, criminals, and lunatics held to the same standards, rules ,,etc. that you all, as well as ourselves must follow, or suffer the consequences of our actions.John Mccain is an American like all of us, and he withstood unbelievable torture way above water boarding and a person that i admire and respect, and he, you all, is against any torture. So if we pledge, pass laws and make rules, then we follow them, all not by choice of those you wish to follow, than call bin la-din he’s waiting, we as Americans do not cut off heads either even though we could.
Rule of law is this country, we must follow it no matter what, gw and his clan have chosen as you all, to be the decider, along with the real pres. Chaney and his cohorts rumsfeld rice and rowe,and therefore have to come to terms with those decisions! With these choices to do as they wanted, have brought up new recruits to bin la din and his clan, with every bad choice they made more of our enemies an who have grown stronger, this is why intelligent people like ourselves around the world have cringed at each of the horrible choices gw and his clan have made, with no regard to what we the people want.when regular people around the world see that we are choosing to follow only the rules we havetochosin follow, what do you think that lunatics like bin la-din and his followers both old and new think?
you can use the excuse that gw got bad Intel but the truth is he was warned it was bad and still destroyed Iraq and all of the infrastructure,it is still today 5 years later a hell hole for humans to live in. if it were done to you, and your family, and 5 years later you were still unemployed, no electric , (you’d complain after a couple days) and no water and sewage, and no food and bombs going off daily, i understand their dismay and anger.
any one and i mean anyone no matter their position should be judged by the Hague,if they are found innocent than so be it but if there is enough evidence to bring them to trial it has to be done or our credibility as a great nation of the world will count for nothing and i for one enjoyed the way that the majority of the world held us up to, as the example to rise too, we need to get that back an soon, or we will plumb-it to obscurity, I know that all of you want to think we are ignorant or unpatriotic, but as you we love our country and feel the death of our children, in battle, dieing daily in these death traps, and feel for every family caught up in this mess that gw and his clan caused,,,, as did i feel for my friends (children) who in the 60s as i grew up, were hauled of to another mistake of a war, and just as now i fight, and argue to bring our children home, i did then because my friends were being killed and maimed and mentally changed for life due to that unjust war. and hopefully we can end this before we loose the numbers of deaths in Nam, but with the care they get now the deaths are less but the physical maimed and mental anguish is making up the numbers. Hope be it that pres elect ob can bring our old friends back , by showing that we are back on track.
phogh and his friends are like a lot and-our for fathers, they came to this land for supposed religious freedom, but soon used the original true people of America, and greed took over and so they set out to slaughter them or cheat them out of their lands and finally when that did not work they pressed the genocide further with the introduction of biological warfare with giving them in supposed help (poison blankets),then that was not enough so they out of sport and greed said, lets starve them to genocide by killing their, main way of sustaining life by also committing genocide on our cousins the buffalo and for not a man saving 15 we would not have them to enjoy. our real Americans the native amer. have more numbers but have mostly been stripped of their heritage, again by stripping them of their beliefs and culture. we have never really come to terms with our own disgraceful history, let alone apologized, or taught it in our schools, but we chastise Hitler and every other person we deem of questionable character, and crimes but never of our own , also the treatment of our citizens the japanese during the war, fear brings stupidity, to all types of men. slow down and read, understand all that you can, before you talk or at least before you judge us. thanks mark w
Posted by: mark young | January 12, 2009, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm
oh and by the way i dont care what party ofiliation or bedroom that anyone that has committed a crime is part of all should be judged and punished our we are for noyhing, so right or left or inbetween you should all look out and straighten out, for the sake of our country!!!!!
mark w
Posted by: mark w | January 12, 2009, 2:31 pm 2:31 pm
Reagan fan. you say be careful because the repugs will be back in power some day. spoken like a true republican. dont do the right thing due to quid-pro-quo. This is the exact type of thinking that has us where we are today. protection of the powerful by the powerful. sorry, doesnt wash.
Posted by: jimt | January 12, 2009, 3:44 pm 3:44 pm
No need to prosecute – what comes around goes around.
Just look at Gonzo – he’s a pariah – a festering boil. Toxic. He’ll be scoopin’ poop at the animal shelter if he’s lucky. He certainly won’t be hired to practice law.
Bush is already a laughingstock – domestically and internationally. Cheney – well, we’d all be happy if that cretin would just crawl back under his rock again.
Posted by: JB | January 12, 2009, 5:40 pm 5:40 pm
i’m sure the CIA has gained actionable intelligence. how much of that was obtained by torture i do not know. i doubt much. the CIA could certainly let us know statistically if their torture regime is working without divulging secret information. just staitistics: how many tortured—out of those tortured what percent led to actionable information. i’m sure there are a couple which have.
please remember the US is a signatory to the Geneva conventions and the International Court (UN) has ruled that 1) waterboarding is torture 2) extraordinary rendition is illegal on its face.
if you think torture is a good thing then by all means let’s ccange our US laws and remove ourselves as signatories from the Geneva Convention/ Accords. that way we will legally be able to practice torture. it will always be an international crime, so torturers will likely have to stay in the country but none appear wanting to travel abroad anyway.
and of course we should be understanding when US soldiers and citizens are tortured because other nations need “actionable intelligence too.”
i suggest that part of the US remaining the greatest nation on earth is that we do not succome to Khmer Rouge-type torture tactics. we are a better nation than that and that is why Obama is not going to use these practices.
i don’t think any US officials should be prosecuted in the US, but i think the UN should hand up indictments. international jurisprudence is important and should be respected. and if we can’t obey our own laws maybe we can obey international law. the UK has not used waterboarding or extraordinary rendition and have foiled many terrorist plots.
“beware of those in whom the wish to punish is strong.”—Nietzsche
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 12, 2009, 5:53 pm 5:53 pm
It is vitally important to me that the Bush administration be made to answer to war crimes that millions of people world-wide believe they committed, and equally important to me that Obama sees to it that this is done.
Posted by: hang | January 12, 2009, 5:59 pm 5:59 pm
We cannot tolerate the rape of the people’s government and injustice that the Bush Admin has incurred. The people demand accountibility and a sign to others that greed and criminality WILL NOT be allowed to shape America or the world!
Investigations and prosecutions MUST be part of OUR MOVING FORWARD!
Posted by: cindy | January 12, 2009, 7:25 pm 7:25 pm
The democrats only one thing and that is hate – I am sick of these rats like reid or palosi – go ahead do your worst why change now. Obama would be well served if doesn’t let these washington bums have their way. Tell them to spend their time on working for a living and do what they were sent to washington to do. God knows they have plenty to work on.
We need to vote out everyone and start over – they have ruined our way of life – yet not one had the guts to step up and take responsibility. Franks, palosi, reid, etc. no guts – Bush will be good to beat up for 4 years than what losers than what????
Posted by: a citizen | January 12, 2009, 7:56 pm 7:56 pm
The democrats only one thing and that is hate – I am sick of these rats like reid or palosi – go ahead do your worst why change now. Obama would be well served if doesn’t let these washington bums have their way. Tell them to spend their time on working for a living and do what they were sent to washington to do. God knows they have plenty to work on.
We need to vote out everyone and start over – they have ruined our way of life – yet not one had the guts to step up and take responsibility. Franks, palosi, reid, etc. no guts – Bush will be good to beat up for 4 years than what losers than what????
Posted by: a citizen | January 12, 2009, 7:56 pm 7:56 pm
“OBAMA: “Well we have not made any final decisions but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward, we are doing the right thing. That doesn’t mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation’s going to be to move forward,” Obama said.”
The correct and only way to interpret this is
“I’m deft, I’m smart and if I was really going to NOT investigate, I wouldn’t use this forum to announce it, nor If I were planning on allowing Justice free reign in open investigations, would I use this forum to make this announcement.”
However, if you’re a pessimist, you’d interpret that as a solid although gentle NO.
He’ll let the separation of power and / or inherent checks and balances be restored by virtue of his “appointing” “honest men and women…” into the 2 branches where the EXE branch controls actual appointments.
I know this all sounds a lot like helping the president succeed in double speak, but more, I am trying to calm myself down after reading this interview 3 times.
Posted by: alogicbit@hotmail.com | January 12, 2009, 8:43 pm 8:43 pm
Paul Wall, you lost me at 5 year sentences for people smoking joints. Such a crime is an infraction to which no jail time is attached. All the nonsense you are spewing is just the typical Kool Aid from the far left play book. You want the rule of law? No where does it say we give terrorists any mercy at the expense of our citizens. Paul Wall, you and your leftist pals are pussies.
Posted by: McBain | January 12, 2009, 9:02 pm 9:02 pm
McBain—and you are a third-grade name caller. like to beat up the little kids on the playground. my post said nothing about people smoking joints—address the right person. i only speak for myself, unlike others who team up. i mean can’t we just disagree? i am strongly opposed to torture. if you want to call me a f*gg*t for that, that’s cool. good luck, man.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 12, 2009, 9:33 pm 9:33 pm
McBain—the person talking about weed was “mark young.” i found it difficult to understand his post at all. no worries i’ve made the same mistake.
i know we have to get critical information from people who wish us ill. but there are other ways than using torture. scaring them isn’t torture, making false promises of release aren’t war crimes. all i have read is that torture yields very poor results. i just feel the best thing to do is follow our (US) laws and international law.
and waterboarding is only the surface. extraordinary rendition is really bad and is a serious war crime: when you capture a person and have them transported to a third country where they will be tortured without any decent limits.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 12, 2009, 9:47 pm 9:47 pm
It is most important that those who committed war crimes in the Bush Administration be tried and brought to justice. How else can we convince our children that the rule of law means anything.
I find dereliction of prosecution of high officials and business people, who commit crimes to be an amazing irony in this nation, that imprisons more people than any other nation on earth.
Posted by: Elizabeth I. Riseden | January 12, 2009, 11:25 pm 11:25 pm
If it’s authorized by congress or the president, it’s not a war crime. That is todays clue. No one is going to be tried. Move on, nothing to see here.
Posted by: Stan Switek | January 13, 2009, 12:53 am 12:53 am
Hey Paul, Elizabeth…. Bill Clinton started “Redition.” You going to prosecute him too or just republicans?
Posted by: Stan Switek | January 13, 2009, 2:13 am 2:13 am
What all the bloodthirsty pro-torture posters here are forgetting is WHY torture is a bad idea, even if you don’t get it that it’s just plain morally wrong. The reason that you don’t torture is to create an international standard of human rights wherein torture is illegal and criminal automatically. Then, when your soldiers are captured, they have at least moral and hopefully practical claim to not be tortured. Many more of our enemies will use torture on us in the future if we lead an international consensus that says it’s ok and won’t be prosecuted. That’s why we don’t bomb the enemy’s hospitals in a war. There can be no peace and now freedom until the war criminals Bush and Cheney are in prison.
Posted by: Joe | January 13, 2009, 8:16 am 8:16 am
A million Iraqis are dead to privatize their oil. It is a list of war crimes longer than the lies.
Posted by: Bob Hyer | January 13, 2009, 10:40 am 10:40 am
Stan Switek—”If it’s authorized by congress or the president, it’s not a war crime.” international law has universal jurisdiction. war crimes were authorized by Hitler, Goering, Frank. there were laws passed in the NAZI state making their actions legal. the fact is that torture is a crime under international law. has congress passed a law making waterboarding legal? if you would be so kind to share that law. i am unaware. if the president and congress decide to practice war crimes its legal? and you are quite seriously? please provide some legal presedence. the NAZIs used this same defense (unsuccessfully). torture is never ok in international law. it is without exception a crime against humanity.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 11:14 am 11:14 am
Stan Switek—if Clinton practiced extraordinary rendition then he should be prosecuted. it is not legal under international law.
“YOU [emphasis added] going to prosecute him too?”
i’m not an international lawyer and i’m not in a position to hand up indictments. i’m just stating my opinions.
the illegality of extraordinary rendition, waterboarding and torture in general is an international crime as well as US laws. not something i just made up. the illegality of torture is a fact not an opinion. what to do about it is just my opinion.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 11:21 am 11:21 am
well sorry mcBain it was i mark w that mentioned the joint to the joint for 5 and yes that was done , my friends did the time. but, that’s not worth talking about i was trying to say that law is law and the law says torture is illegal and there is no clause saying that our president is above our laws so he is guilty,as well as the rest of his clan and as someone said then bill Clinton should be charged to as i said before i believe that it is time that anyone from anywhere or any party has to be prosecuted for crimes committed or we are living a fake dream( that dream being the wonderful USA) this country is based on the rule of law so lets make everyone follow it.
Posted by: mark w | January 13, 2009, 11:53 am 11:53 am
but fear not torture advocates. a genocide is in progress in Darfur and nothing is being done. at least the leader of Sudan has been indicted and is unable to travel abroad.
it is significant that the leader of the genocide in Rwanda was tried and convicted in a UN court and sentenced to life in prison in Tanzania. nearly a million people were murdered by machete in under 90 days as the world watched. i would say the Clinton administration could have done much more and that their inaction resulted in nearly a million deaths. at least they have admitted that and have profound more regrets. but few seem to care about Africa and that is a tragedy after the Euro-American plundering of the continent. you would think we should be more concerned about genocide. after the Holocaust it was said “never again” and yet it has happened again, again and again.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm
Jimt:
Just about all of the Dems in the
Senate voted to give Bush the
authority to go to war in Iraq!
In fact the biggest hue and cry about
WMD came from Hillary Clinton and Joe
Biden!
I didn’t hear too many protests from
them about torture either!
Like it or not President Bush has kept
us safe since the 9/11 attacks!
Attempting to criminalize foreign policy
decisions will make us the laughing
stock of the world and further
encourage the terrorists to attack us
again!
Posted by: reaganfan | January 13, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
The traitors who have killed the U.S. Constitution in the name of ‘Security’ while stuffing their pockets deserve to hang. The term ‘which hunt’ refers to a false accusation, a fictional justice, to scape goat innocent, and our history is full of them, always they are started by the elite, the conservative, and the religious. IN THIS CASE, we have direct evidence of an evil conspiracy to destroy the Bill of Rights, imprison and torture American Citizens. All of the accused are guilty by their own admission in the press, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, Wu, Gonzalez, and others, all admitted to treason and breaking their oath of office, by outing our secret CIA agents, and authorizing torture, rendition, and going to the “dark side”. If we don’t hold them accountable then the next President above the law will do worse.
There is an alternative, with the unitary executive powers that our new war time President, Barack H. Obama inherits from G.W., he could declare Bush and the others all enemy combatants, take them to off shore prisons and torture the truth out of them, and be fully within his rights under the law.
These Republican Bastards have destroyed the U.S. Constitution, and taken our country. It is time to fight and get it back.
Posted by: Michael E. Russell | January 13, 2009, 1:02 pm 1:02 pm
Stan Switek—of course no one is going to be tried. there was never any doubt about that. we (the US) are signatories to international law and are obliged to obey it.
waterboarding and extraordinary rendition are illegal under international law.
i think individuals responsible should be indicted in international criminal courts.
but you are correct. nothing will ever be done to them. no charges in the US.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm
I personally think that if you don’t like our country (that was established on Christian beliefs), then get the heck out!!!! Don’t live here. Move to a country where you don’t have as much freedom to disrespect. And another thing, if I hear of one more American spitting on an American soldier, I will hit the first Dem I see in the face.
have read so much crap on this blog that it’s unbelievable. First off, I don’t think anyone thinks torchuring is right. However, I do think it is more important for us to protect our country. Left wing politicians are not known for their foreign affairs being good on this country. It deals with secrets and lies and scandals to keep them off of us. Bush went in and said, No. I’m not going to give you something in return for you to leave me alone. All Dems care about is the people inside this nation and that’s it. Forget about the fact that Sadam was killing his own people.
Posted by: jennifertexan | January 13, 2009, 4:23 pm 4:23 pm
Your program will not work. It ignores the elephant in the room, the Federal Reserve. Also, feeding One Trillion Dollars to a bunch of fat tick construction and remodeling companies is insane! It’s nothing more than trickledown job creation. What guarantee do WeThePeople have those new jobs will be created, instead of raises being given to “favored” emlpoyees INCLUDING THE OWNER. At least start with One Half Trillion to WeThePeople, and the other half for infrastructure! Unless a radical change is made, Mr. President, beginning with the re-organization of the Federal Reserve, you will become the first American President to preside over the Greatest of All Depressions. I hope this helps.
Further, Mr. President, our economic system is based on two main principals. The first is that consumer spending is two-thirds of the economy. The second is that every dollar spent at retail is spent seven times in a year. The current plan is to send 90% of the money to non-consumers. Any plan that does not target consumers is doomed to failure.
It makes no sense to offer help to fat tick construction companies when consumers are not spending and banks are not lending. Is it too much to ask that the American Family get something directly to help their “crumbling economic structure” when consumers are not spending, and banks are not lending? You are not FDR despite the Time Magazine Article. Quit listening to FDR experts. We’re at a New Gate! I AM OPPOSED TO TRICKLE DOWN JOB ECONOMICS, MR. PRESIDENT, THEY DO NOT WORK!!!
http://vimeo.com/2783535
Posted by: Richard Peter | January 13, 2009, 5:16 pm 5:16 pm
AND FURTHER, MR. PRESIDENT
WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, DEMAND
1. The re-organisation of the Federal Reserve System, forbidding it to print any more Federal Reserve Notes, and that the Federal Reserve be placed under the Department of the Treasury, and be forbidden eternally the practice common know as fractional banking.
2. The Creation of United States Money in the amount of One Trillion United States Dollars, and other future fiat creations in United States Dollars as deemed necessary by the President, The Secretary of the Treasury and what is generally known as the President’s economic team.
3. Upon the Creation of this initial One Trillion Dollar Fund, that every American Household be given a cash voucher, payable in the new United States Dollar, in the amount of $20,000 for the purchase of a new energy efficient home, or the re-fitting of an existing property to an energy efficient standard, and a $10,000 cash voucher to the head of every American Household for the purchase of a hybrid electric or natural gas powered car to be made in America. The SBA shall be instructed to issue a $100,000 Zero Interest, Zero Down Loan payable in the United States Dollar, and repayable over the next 10 years in those same United States Dollars, for the opening of any business related to alternative energy, gas powered and/or hybrid electric cars, or any other worthy business whose sole focus will be to create alternative energy, conserve energy, or to create a new energy related invention. Regional Transportation Authorities owned by We The People will be created and instructed to build rapid transit in concentric circles around the 100 largest cities in the America funded by newly the newly created fiat money. United States Fiat Money will also be used to build Wind Farms and to produce Natural Gas wherever feasible, also owned by We The People of the United States.
4. Foreclosures and IRS seizures shall be forbidden for a period of four years.
5. Criminal records are to be made private except to law enforcement. Probation officers will be required to find employment and a place to live for their “client base” of released prisoners.
6. Credit records, and all Debts public and private will be cleared every 30 Years. It will be the Year of the American Jubilee!
7. That a 20% flat tax be created immediately. No withholding will be allowed for any amount of money above an estimate of the amount of the 20% tax due based on last year’s income. That the American Poor Head of Household be give a negative tax(a monthly voucher) in the amount of $12,000 per year, adjusted for inflation, provided such Citizen participate in drug and alcohol programs if their past history indicates that should be undertaken.
8. That abortion is declared illegal, and any Justice at any level of government be impeached for allowing abortion.
9. That electric and water companies in the United States be Nationalized immediately.
10. That the United States of America will pay for all health insurance claims above $10,000. All claims under $10,000 will be paid by private insurance companies provided all pre-existing conditions are covered. The program is to be funded by fiat United States Money.
11. That the United States of America will fund water and agricultural co-operatives outside every American City to be used only in the event of national emergency. Small farmers that have been put out of business are to be in charge of their creation and up-keep and be given vouchers and salaries payable in the new United States Money to preserve these goods for generations to come.
12. Any Citizen who finds fraud and waste is to be given a 10% cash voucher of the amount of the money deemed saved.
13. Fiat United States Money will be used to back up all checking accounts at 100%, and loaned to these New Banks repayable over 10 years interest free. Charters that do not contain this provision will be REVOKED! The FDIC will no longer be needed.
14. National Banks will be forbidden. Regional banks will be allowed, with at least 51% percent of the Governing Boards to be appointed from volunteers who serve in each regional community.
15. Banks will be required to loan all of the new United States Money on deposit, less no greater than a 10% “handling” fee. They will be permitted to charge no more than 8% interest.
16. Usury will be forbidden. No interest rates higher than 8% will be permitted. All credit card debt in existence higher than 8% will be discharged.
17. All Government Departments at all levels will be required to be published on the Web in language at an 8th grade reading level describing exactly what their programs are doing, and We The People will vote on the Internet as whether we desire to continue their funding. We The People will determine who was responsive to Our Will at Election Time! United States Fiat Money will fund all programs who survive. State and local property taxes are hereby abolished.
18. All direct participants in any floor traded exchange, or their indirect associates, will be forbidden in engaging in any trading that results in market manipulation, with special attention being given to those engaged in futures trading. Trading in United States Money as a commodity will be strictly forbidden.
19. We The People will call a National Constitutional Convention before the next Presidential Election create a Fourth Branch of Government to be known as The Money Branch, while at the same time establishing a National List of goods and services to be run by the United States government and owned by We The People, declaring that at a minimum Water and Electric Services will Eternally be owned by the Citizens of the United States of America.
SIGNED BY:
RICHARD ALAN HASKELL PETER http://vimeo.com/2783535
Posted by: Richard Peter | January 13, 2009, 5:18 pm 5:18 pm
jennifertexan—i hope you can find a way to express your feelings without “hitting the first democrat you see in the face.” just because you disagree with someone does not mean they hate their country. whether you like it or not all faiths are practiced in our free nation. christian, white people do not own the united states. i disagree with you but don’t think that entitles me to tell you to get out of the country. this is a free country for us all.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 5:47 pm 5:47 pm
Richard Peter—wrong blog, sir. this is about the prosecution of war crimes not fiscal policy. it reads like you are addressing your remarks to the president-elect? your can address him at his website(s).
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 5:51 pm 5:51 pm
RICHARD ALAN HASKELL PETER—”WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, DEMAND”. please don’t speak for “the people” just yourself. maybe some friends can sign it, but don’t act as though you speak for the people. this is just a blog. it reads like you want to start a petition or a political action committee. this isn’t the right venue. people are just expressing opinions here.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 13, 2009, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm
1) If we don’t investigate and prosecute, the World Court is very likely to; 2)If we don’t go after an entire administration and an enabling GOP Congress for high treason, corruption while in high office, war crimes, multiple violations of the Supreme Law of the Land in unilaterally breaking international treaties we were signatory to, blackmail of and perjury to Congress to enable illegal wiretapping,etc, etc, ad nauseam – we can expect more of the same, and should. If we let this go and do nothing, whatever country this is, it is no longer America.
Not dwelling on the past with things that make no difference and do nothing but divide a country that should be united is one thing; not dealing with crimes like this from the highest offices in the country and “moving on” is, in my opinion, a betrayal as bad as high treason. It would leave us nothing worth building a future on.
Ian
Posted by: Ian MacLeod | January 13, 2009, 11:46 pm 11:46 pm
As mentioned above, the place to prosecute Bush and minions is the Hague.
Posted by: Micheál | January 14, 2009, 6:44 am 6:44 am
The Hague is the proper place to prosecute. Having the American government do it is like having the clergy investigate allegations of child abuse!
Posted by: Micheál | January 14, 2009, 6:51 am 6:51 am
It’s real simple: No prosecution, no peace, and certainly no two-term presidency.
For torture: the Hague or I.C.C.
For subversion: the U.S. Justice Department.
There is no gray area.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/Stephen_Pitt_Cartoons.html
Posted by: lthuedk | January 14, 2009, 10:46 am 10:46 am
Micheál—i agree with you completely. The Hague is an imapartial, international court where fair trials can be held, something the US has not given the detainees at guantanamo Bay. 7 years and most of them have still not been charged. the number of secretly conducted trials is minimal (by US military reports).
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 14, 2009, 11:09 am 11:09 am
There is going to be no trial in the Hague or any other place. All those European countries would be speaking German or Russian if not for the USA.
People bitch that the Bush administration didn’t connect the dots before 9/11. Now, because the administration acted to connect the dots, a few leftist liberal kooks want to prosecute? Give me a break. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Get over it cry babies. Stomp your feet, wring your wrists & shout all you want. No one will be prosecuted and that is exactly the way it should be.
You look at the complaints of the leftist kooks. They would rather see innocent Americans die that have our intel people listen in on terrorist phone calls or pour some water in some terrorists face.
Posted by: Raineer L. Wolfcastle | January 14, 2009, 11:10 am 11:10 am
Raineer L. Wolfcastle—just citizens, like you, expressing our opinions. if you think waterboarding is a little water in the face you should give it a try. it’s been practiced by the Khmer Rouge, NAZIs, Japanese during WWII (the Japanese soldiers responsible for waterboarding were convicted in internation tribunals after the war, convicted and sentenced to prison). but by all means, Mr. Wolfcastle, give it a try the next time you are thirsty. that people disagree with you doesn’t make them “kooks” not does it make you correct.
people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 14, 2009, 1:40 pm 1:40 pm
I hope all you leftist morons calling for prosecution of Bush & Cheney realize that Clinton & Gore would also have to be prosecuted. Rendition & enhanced interrogation started on their watch. You guys have really short or should I say selective memories.
Posted by: Biff Tannen | January 14, 2009, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm
If Obama goes after anyone in the Bush administration, I will be the first to demand that he is impeached – if his statements about the economy, taxes, etc. are put into effect, he will doom us into a deep depression. We have a fighting chance of pulling out now, but the more he taxes and spends, the worse it will get. NO one will be better off – if YOUR taxes do go down, YOU will still be lossing by paying MORE for goods and services under Obama’s tax and spend plan. No more “bailouts” – let stupid people suffer the consequences of “gambling” their futures. Investments are and have always been a gamble – you take your chances. If the federal government bails out losses from gambling in the market, et al, then they should bail out losers at Vegas, too – no difference as far as I can see. Pray that we can survive four years of the tax and spend, then boot him out and get someone responsible into office – someone who is there for the COUNTRY, not his own inflated ego.
Posted by: NoBama (ever) | January 14, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
and i have no delusions that it therre will ever be any trials, my only contention was that US officials violated international law (many are boldly proud of it like Cheney) and are eligible for prosecution under international law.
there are certainly bigger fish to fry, like the leaders of Sudan. the people who live in Darfur have terrorist events every single day. sad you aren’t concerned about them speaking Russian, Mr. Wolfcastle. but i forget, terrorism only happens to Americans. africans deserve nothing. pathetic.
torture is an ugly business. people who support it have no idea of what it is. read up!
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 14, 2009, 1:47 pm 1:47 pm
Biff Tannen—i agree with you completely. i think Clinton and Gore should be indicted in international courts. extraordinary rendition is a crime.
and i think Cheney is most complicit along with Gore and Clinton. i haven’t been impressed that Bush was aware of the legalities in question as were Clinton (a lawyer), Gore, Cheney (long time suppresor of human rights and Gonzalez (a lawyer).
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 14, 2009, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm
Bush and Cheney for 8 more years.
In Gitmo!
Posted by: Libertaroa | January 14, 2009, 3:48 pm 3:48 pm
NoBama (ever)—Obama cannot be impeached for enforcing U.S. law. in fact it is his duty to uphold U.S. law, it is his sworn duty.
the blog is about torture not taxes and prayer.
Posted by: Paul | January 14, 2009, 3:53 pm 3:53 pm
Have no delusions they will walk away and make millions for appearances.
Obama and holder will ignore there duty.
Anybody who thinks the oath these guys take means a damn thing is blind to the fact that the law only applies to the poor.
Posted by: Mark vw | January 14, 2009, 5:37 pm 5:37 pm
Mark vw—”the law only applies to the poor”, as cynical as that is, it is unfortunately very true. it’s so sad i don’t even want to think about it anymore.
Posted by: Paul | January 14, 2009, 6:27 pm 6:27 pm
911 Was An Inside Job. Watch the movie on Google called FABLED ENEMIES. Arrest all the criminals.
Posted by: Brian | January 14, 2009, 8:03 pm 8:03 pm
Burn the Bushes, history and the world demand justice.
And so,
farewell then.
Posted by: trout | January 14, 2009, 8:25 pm 8:25 pm
In reading some of rightwing comments
I am truly convinced that they are
either educated or uneducated FOOLS.
Posted by: Louis A Arnaudo | January 14, 2009, 8:40 pm 8:40 pm
IMPEACH HELL NO- Simply prosecute for TREASON ALL members of the bush administration
Posted by: Richard Montoya | January 14, 2009, 9:34 pm 9:34 pm
I have no doubt that upon reading the comments of the leftists here, the vast majority of Americans would think “what a bunch of fracking retards.”
Posted by: Raineer L. Wolfcastle | January 14, 2009, 9:37 pm 9:37 pm
In the last eight years,grossly immoral acts have been committed against the rule of law,Americcam people and me. They MUST be investigated and if crimes have been committed, prosecuted. No person in the USA, NOBODY is above the law. I do hope President elect Obama, as a lawyer and a person who has taught and understands Constitutional law will not vacilate on this. THIS IS NOT A WITCH HUNT but a matter of our trying to reestablish our honor and integrity.
Posted by: John Freer | January 15, 2009, 12:42 am 12:42 am
We can not allow one administration to cover for the previous corrupt and treasonous administration before it. This cycle of moving forward and ignoring crimes and genocide has to stop. The line should be in the sand since the people demand it.
Each President takes more power than allowed under our Constitution. We are a democracy under attack by the oligarcy who act in their own self interest. It is destroying us and many in our world since we are powerful and many don’t dare challenge our leader’s policies.
Obama to obtain any credibility at all has to by Executive Order negate all of the Bush signing statements and removal of rights acts (Patriot Act, FEMA powers, etc.) on his first day of office.(much like Jefferson a
nd the Sedition Act).
Posted by: J. Stevens | January 15, 2009, 8:11 am 8:11 am
J. Stevens, undoubtedly, millions of radical Islamic terrorists bent of the destruction of the USA agree with you. I bet it makes you feel great huh?
Posted by: Biff Tannen | January 15, 2009, 8:42 am 8:42 am
Biff Tannen—i’m just curious why anyone who has an opinion other than yours is a traitor or supports terrorists. torture is a crime in the U.S. (see the Charles Taylor, Jr. case for successful prosecution in U.S. Federal Court) and is a crime in international law. there are many ways to gain intelligence from a person other than torture.
if the U.S. were to leave the Middle East and let Israel handle its own business we will have no more terrorist attacks. constant intervening and interfering in other nations will make the U.S. a target. just think if we never supported Saddam Hussein or the Shah of Iran.
Posted by: Paul | January 15, 2009, 11:45 am 11:45 am
Raineer L. Wolfcastle—”vast majority of Americans would think “what a bunch of fracking retards.”
perhaps the majority of americans would think of the right wingers “what a bunch of cruel sadists who have no idea what torture is, sitting in their quiet suburban homes and only know what torture is when they feel it.”
and what is “fracking” anyway?
torture is a U.S. and international crime. international law states that waterboarding and extraordinary rendition are torture. “enemy combatants” and other statuses are not legally recognized by international law. torture is universally a crime.
the world thinks we are a bunch of hypocrits.
Posted by: Paul Wall | January 15, 2009, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm
This one you get the underwear of the radical left in a bunch for sure.
Court Affirms Wiretapping Without Warrants
Choke on it!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html?_r=1&hp
Posted by: Mr Destroyer | January 16, 2009, 1:23 am 1:23 am
Mr Destroyer—it’s more about torture than wiretaps. i think most people agree that wiretapping is a minor issue when compared to human rights abuses, torture and violation of US and international law.
Posted by: Paulus | January 16, 2009, 11:22 am 11:22 am
Mr Destroyer—”choke on it.” that’s some irony.
Posted by: Paulus | January 16, 2009, 8:04 pm 8:04 pm
The Bush people must be prosecuted, thats not a witch hunt unless it gets purely political. Pursuing prosecutions of people who are guilty of crimes is not a witch hunt, its justice and if the Obama administration does not do this they are essentially saying there is no justice for those above the law, hence no democracy. We then have a ruling power elite that is above the law. Not democratic and not free.
Posted by: Colin | January 19, 2009, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm
So many people have suffered and died because of this administrations war efforts which have now been proven to be based on false information. If President Bush sought his presidency soley to complete what his father started in the Middle East using the power of our military as his tool, then he has abused us all. He was elected to lead and to take care of the people he represented. This did not happen. Instead, we have been oppressed by his personal mission based on his familys’ oil interests. I hope someone somewhere finds a way to hold him and his associates responsible for the damage he has caused snd the thousands of lives that have been taken due to his decisions. I lost my grandmother, my aunt, and my sister during the last four years of his presidency. All before their time. All due to the lack of accountability now present in the health care industry. They were good hard working people who just couldn’t take anymore. I will miss them, and I hope our next President will make the changes needed to keep this from continuing.
Posted by: R. Zimmer | January 20, 2009, 8:04 am 8:04 am
I think the most important thing to consider is…What does France think?
Help us world, our new “Jesus” needs disciples.
Well I am off to cash in on the Obama marketing craze, I think I will write a song about him! Nobody has done that yet.
Posted by: DumDem4Life | January 20, 2009, 10:43 am 10:43 am
I say we have Bush killed & then all of you idiots can shut up and hug a soldier!
Posted by: Solid as Barrack...get it? | January 20, 2009, 10:47 am 10:47 am
You stupid, stupid people. CHANGE! Yeah right, whatever. Bush and co. walk, even after rendering what was left of the Constitution useless in such blinding and obvious ways. What do you think Obama is going to do? ‘Clean up government?’ Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Posted by: jonnyfrag | January 20, 2009, 5:09 pm 5:09 pm
So when do we get to go after women who have abortions and the doctors that commit them. Hey, an abortions takes a life. That is a medical fact that the medical community is aware of and that had been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. So…you want to go after Bush, et al who wnet after the scum that were hurting and killing hundreds of thousands in Iran as well as our own sholdiers? So be it. But us “righties” will make sure the abortion supporters as well as the “Pro Choicers” are prosecuted in a court of law as well.
Posted by: John Harper | January 20, 2009, 6:59 pm 6:59 pm
So many people think that Bush-Cheney violated the law. How did they come to that conclusion? Was it the left-wing liberal media? Was it Michael Moore? Was it George Soros? Come on guys! Just because someone who disagrees with a president says that he did something illegal doesn’t make it so. Have we all forgot how to think for ourselves? I didn’t vote for Obama; but, I hope he succeeds in turning our economy around. When he does something I disagree with, I’ll refrain from ridiculous name calling and false accusations such as Bush received. If I disagree with Obama, I’ll use facts to “respectfully” express my disagreement. Wow! What a unique concept!
Posted by: Ricky Allen Walden | January 25, 2009, 10:37 pm 10:37 pm
If Obama wants to start a witch hunt, why doesn’t he start with himself and his birth certificate and be honest about it.
Posted by: Laura L. | January 28, 2009, 9:58 pm 9:58 pm
I’ve read so much of this, “They would have tortured, they did torture, so why are we worried about our guys torturing them?” it makes me want to puke. Wrong is wrong, whoever does it, for whatever reason, and there is no excuse for it, EVER. There is evil in the world; to deny that is pure idiocy. To emulate it or even to excuse it is pure evil, as it was the first time around.
Ian
Posted by: Ian MacLeod | February 10, 2009, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm