The Note, 1/28/09: Old Habits — Journey to post-partisanship takes a detour in Congress

HH, I think you have had a rough day already. Poor dear, maybe you should call it a day? It was rough getting to work this morning. But the weather should have nothing to do with such nastiness.
Dictator? REally tell us how you really feel? LOL

oh – and they need to take out of there the stipulation that Illinois doesn’t get anything unless Blago is out of office. That is NOT the federal government’s place to decide who can and can’t be governor of a state. I thought that was petty & childish….it reminds me of middle school girls….”don’t be her friend or we won’t let you hang out with us”.

Neither Democrat nor Republican should vote in support of this so-called economic stimulus plan.
How can you call this an economic stimulus plan?
What Obama is calling a plan is simply an OUTLINE of what they want to do. It does not detail who, what, when, where and how the $825B will be used. It is a GENERIC DRAFT and $825B is a lot of money to put into the Democrats hands without concrete information.
Obama says the money will be used to modernize schools, build new roads, and automate hospital records. He says this will put 3.5 million people to work. Yet, he has not said what schools, cities, states, average pay for the jobs, nor given an invitation for contractors to bid on some of the work.
My concern is that Obama already has his cronies set up to get most of the work. The cities who voted for him and his supporters will reap most of the benefits.
So no, I do not think neither Republicans nor Democrats should vote right now on any so-called economic stimulus plan until the plan is complete.
When you create a plan, it needs to be Ready, Aim, and Fire.
Obama’s plan is Ready, Fire, Aim.

The difference between Democrats and “ditto heads” is obvious. Democrats represent their constituents. Ditto heads represent their mis-guided idealogies as directed from their on-the-air god.

GOP Do you care that we are heading into a Depression?
GOP- NO
GOP Do you care that Each passing day more and more People are losing their Jobs and Big corporations are about to close?
GOP-NO
GOP-We want Tax cuts,Tax cuts and More Tax cuts That is all we bring to the table!
GOP We understand you are still stuck in the stoneages still Trying the old Trickle down thing, BUT IT HAS NOT WORKED! Explain to me all the people that have or are losing their Jobs they now dont pay Taxes how will A tax cut help these people? What about JOBS GOP?How are Tax cuts going to provide JOBS? I think the time has come for the GOP To think Anew! I mean look after 8 Years of Bush and The GOP Spending us into The hell Hole The Gop now wants to become Fisical Conservative,Thats a good step now Lose the Trickle down Idea. Realize GOP The Economy does not grow from the top up But from the Bottom Down same thing when you Build a house You start from the Ground up! Get with the Program GOP!

It looks like we’ll just have to vote more obstructionist Republicans out in 2010. Within 4 years they’ll have gone the way of the dinosaur.

A communist giveaway to all the government workers and unionized brethren represented by their shrewd Democratic agents. But let’s not foregt we only won by a slim margin, so let’s try to “blah-blah” our way into those votes too. Mold it, pinch it, tiwst it, prop it up, slap on some paint and new tires and roll it out the door. AHH SWEET IRONY…well atleast the freemarket is still alive and well up on the hill.

Hey everyone, google Democrats on an escalator. Too funny but so true!!!!

This “stimulus package” amounts to nothing more than support for the democrats favorite liberal pet projects and organizations. Billions of dollars that will not create a single job. Pocket stuffing for favors rendered. Tax cuts, are the only credible items about this package.

HH – thanks for the dose of reality for the moonbats…
You’re right, when he’s not giving his first televised interview to the Arabic world, he’s having lattes with terrorist muslims in GITMO…oh, but its a rough day when he has to “reach across the isle” to repulicans – who he so desperately needs for approval of his pork laden stimulus plan – so when it fails he can blame EVERYONE who voted for it.
Nice strategy for your first/second week in office .
CHANGE we can believe it (NOT)

Angie, you do a good job of MISREPRESENTING the GOP position, which you proceed to try to rip apart. However, your statements are far from the truth. You are so blinded by your ideology that you refuse to listen to what the other side is saying, only hearing what you want to hear. Try listening to the other side and understanding their position…oh, wait, that sounds too much like the standard definition of bipartisanship, where yours, apparently, is simply rolling over and saying, “Go for it, whatever you want. We’re behind you.”

Oh, Johnny W, get a grip!

obama’s “vote for my package” isn’t bi-partisan.
and No one voted for their congress critter to cave to him

It’s certainly not President Obama’s fault. What it boils down to is racism. The whites of America are so distraught over an African American running the country, that they will do anything to discredit every move the man makes. Shows how little progress whites have made over the last couple hundred years.

Albert Camus once said this:
“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.”
It fits “Messiah” Obama to a tee and the sheep of this country fell for it. Once Obama falls flat on his face we, The GOP, will be here to pick up the pieces.

Obama’s such a fool, and the people who believe this clown. You will all be very, very disapointed soon…

I lend to small business. 95% of the time the bottom line is managed down. The #1 rule in owning a business is to pay as little to uncle sam as possible. Tax cuts arent going to grow jobs. Give $$ to people to spend which will increase the revenue of small business and they will have to manage down their bottom line by hiring people.

The only reasons the Republicans are opting out is politically they can. The bill will pass without them and their is a bigger benefit of voting no. If the Republicans had the numbers in the House and Senate to kill the bill, you would see alot more Bipartisan support because they would be seen as holding up the process as oppossed to defending some ideology that won’t happen. (BTW . . . Democrats do this too . . . welcome to American politics.)

Obama was successful in removing some of things that were objectionable to the minority and added some additional corporate breaks they suggested. In my view he is working in a bi-partisan manner. But with people like Mike Pence and Boehner it’s all or nothing.
Funny Pence’s district in Indiana has lost thousands of jobs during his time in office from 2000 to present. This was during the supposed Bush boom years.
He’s an ideologue that puts party and policy above people. He’s a self serving former radio talk show host with a smooth tongue but an empty suit. If this is the best the GOP can put forward they are in desparate straights.

Billy BOB
I Think you should read this stimilus Package. Obamas Plan does Include Small Business Tax cuts as well As Tax Incentives to People who Hire and create Jobs, The problem with the GOP Is not enough Tax cuts going to the rich And Wealthy You see when it comes to helping The Average person The GOP Want no part of it!

MARCO
The Point is the Gop were in Power for 6 years A republican President for 8 So therfore they Created this Mess now they Offer nothing to Fix it Only their same old tired Failed Idealogy Of lets give the wealthy Rich all the Tax cuts and pretend it Creates Jobs and trickles down

I hope Obama turns out to be a better than average president, but I have my doubts.

Good morning. Let’s continue patting ourselves on the back for our two party system. One in which one party has elevated themselves the financial caretakers of the United States. Yet, they are always “in” halfway. (I won’t begin to list the ways). If you want the markets to self correct, start making the case. START THE DIALOGUE. Stay true to your ideology start the recession/depression plans for the United States. Yet, everyone KNOWS they’ll stop short of that–so much for sticking to your framework. Instead, there will be market intervention and only solution coming is tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. It’s tiresome.
It appears we are idea bankrupt. It seems like this problem is exacerbated by party alliances.
On a week where 50,000 people lost their job no one really questions the appropriateness of their gamesmanship.

Don’t let ABC NEws jerk your chain, folks! This is what democracy looks like, per an article in the New York Times:
“In a session with House Republicans, Mr. Obama said he would not compromise on a central element of his plan that has drawn particular Republican opposition: his campaign promise for a middle-class tax credit that would also go to low-wage workers who earn too little to pay income taxes but are subject to payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare… But, Republicans interviewed after the meeting said, Mr. Obama told them he would listen to proposals to expand on provisions cutting taxes for small businesses and would be open to corporate tax cuts as well if Republicans cooperated to close tax loopholes for big business.”

I thought the heavens were going to open up when BO got in office. No wonder his approval went from 84 to 68 already. next week it will be 50 the following week 40 and so on. soon it will be just as bad as the last idiot in office. Congress approvals are lower than bush’s and I’m sure will continue to fall. Don’t expect government to fix anything. They aren’t smart enough

To all Republicans on Board against President Obama here is a question for you
Do you think the Republicans as well as President Bushes Economic plans have been good for the Last 8 years?
What Jobs did President Bush create during his 8 years of Presidency? last I checked Unemployment is about to reach a new Historic High

Where do you think $825 Billion comes from? It comes from you and me. Who are the Dems going to give this to? It’s going to be given to corporations. Not you or me.
Who has to pay this money back? You and me. The bill doesn’t make much sense now does it?
Lower our taxes, we’ll spend more. Give me a big fat $7,000 check for the taxes I paid this last year. I’m likely to spend it.
Drill for oil so our gas prices lower. This will increase business and personal travel and therefore tax revenues will increase to pay the billions back. It will increase spending at vacation spots as well.
Open our 401k’s so we can dig into them without penalty. We can use this money to pay off our debt and therefore spend more money on other things.
Money to big business will go no where.

MIKEO
President Obama has already got the Dems to compromise They Pulled the Condoms and Birth control spending out of the Bill I fail to see giving people maybe a little more in their Paychecks a week will help Create Jobs And you really think People are going to spend that Money no people are going to pay off their Debt

MIKEO
You really think anyone Belives the lying GOP They are only Caring about their ReElections They want to make the Dems look bad so they can come back into Power

We have’nt had a decent president since Kennedy, That includes Obama.. He’s another fake president helping the elite to take over!

This article portrays Obama as the victim. Obama was the, if not the most, to the Far Left Senators in the Senate. It’s to be expected that there will be ideological head butting with Republicans.
This so called “stimulous” bill has a whole lot of possible bad consequences attached to it.

Why is it the GOP Had no Problem Bailing out Wall Street and going along with Bush/Paulson Plan? why Because thats Wall Street GOP MOTTO-TO HELL WITH MAIN STREET!
WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR WEALTH CEOS ON WALL STREET WEALTHY!

Obama plans to continue the Bush policies on economics and war. where’s the change? I dont see the differance!

MIKEO
Listening to the Gop what are they Offering? all they are doing is bashing the Bill and saying no no no! Listen to what same old Tax cuts for the Wealthy and screw the Middleclass?And I find it Funny they are now all of a sudden Fiscal Responsible Where were they when they Helped Bush spend us into this Mess

Angie 9:39 AM….From the Congressional Budget Office:
Federal Income Tax Revenues (Individuals)
2003: $793.7 billion
2007: $1,163.5 billion
Federal Income Tax Revenues (Corporations)
2003: $131.8 billion
2007: $370.2 billion
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
Unemployment
2003: 6.3% (highest monthly rate)
2007: 4.4% (lowest monthly rate)
GDP also grew at annual rate of 3% per year during that period
Now you can argue round and round about which types of jobs were created, but that has more to do with where & how consumers spent their money, and how businesses responded to demand (specifically, the price that consumers were willing to pay for various goods & services), but that has nothing to do with tax cuts.
Bottom line, although the tax rates on all (I remember getting a huge additional amount back when I filed my taxes in 2004 due to the 2003 tax cuts) went down, federal income tax revenues (both individual & corporate) went UP. Government, of course, spent like a drunken sailor on liberty (shore leave), but across-the-board tax cuts did NOT lead to this economic situation. If you look at what was going on in the economy starting in 2007, the housing bubble was bursting and gas prices soaring (neither of which had to do with tax cuts), and other factors that you can more reasonably attribute this economic downturn to.

“But let’s not foregt we only won by a slim margin, so let’s try to “blah-blah” our way into those votes too.”
Two words…Electoral Landslide. It’s wasn’t a “slim margin.” A “slim margin” is losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote.

“You people might want to get up from from your computer terminal and seek to do the same.”
Many of us are working at our computer terminals. But way to attempt to condescend.

The stupid GOP is trying to negotiate from a position of weakness. The Dems can pretty much do anything they want. President Obama went out of his way to try to include the GOP in drafting the bill and all he gets for his efforts are obstructionism. The voters are tired of all the partisan bickering and it’s going to hurt the GOP in 2010. I predict that the Dems will win a filibuster-proof majority because adults are tired of the childish antics of the Republicans.

Uh, the GOP voted to say “no” before the President met with them? How insensitve to the American taxpayers that is left struggling in the middle. YOU CAN PUNCH A HOLE IN SOMETHING, DON’T IF YOU CAN’T FILL IT. GOP what are your solutions? Do you just want to fight something without a cause. You angry bastards

Angie said: “Listening to the Gop what are they Offering? all they are doing is bashing the Bill and saying no no no! Listen to what same old Tax cuts for the Wealthy and screw the Middleclass?And I find it Funny they are now all of a sudden Fiscal Responsible Where were they when they Helped Bush spend us into this Mess”
I call BS on this. Provide me one verifiable quote where the GOP is saying don’t give a tax cut to the middle class, and only to the upper class. At most, they object to sending money to individuals that had no income tax liability to begin with. Also, they are not bashing the entire bill, just the parts that they view as frivolous “pork” spending and lacking in potential economic stimulus and/or job creation. Third, there is no justification to the spend-happy attitude for the past 8 years, and they seem to have acklowledged that as a big mistake. Fourth, see my other comment on “Bush spent us into this mess”; government spending did not crash the economy. Along those lines, if “government spending during the Bush administration got us into this mess”, how will more of the same type of government spending get us out of this mess?

Gotta love all these BHO groupies that say “Republicans want America to fail.”
Which party is it that has been kowtowing to terrorists, homos, rapists, cop killers, pedophiles, welfare recipients, etc.. for the last 40+ years?
Me thinks not the Republicans.

“Me thinks not the Republicans.”
Methinks you’re not getting enough oxygen to your brain.

sara wilson 10:00….still pushing half-truths (vote no before meeting with President Obama). The actual position was to vote no AS IT CURRENTLY STOOD WITHOUT ANY ABILITY FOR THE GOP TO PROVIDE INPUT. The GOP and President Obama appear ready to work together; it’s the Democratic Congress that is digging in its heels and is unwilling to allow the GOP anything except rubber-stamping their proposal. Get your facts straight.

Ok Dan, how about a flat tax across rhe board. That would be a grear stimilus to the economy as well as getting rid of thousand of pages of complicated tax laws.

“Silky the paid blogger. Just as I suspected. If you’re not a paid blogger you’re stealing time from your employer. So which is it?”
Just had my yearly performance appraisal and received all 1s and 2s. But nice try. Not that it’s any of your business.

silky–Any refutiations of my posts? Or just childish liberal namecalling?
TYPICAL.

The big problems is in GOP. They destroyd the american and the world economy and now are interested to stand againist to those who want to solve the world and american problem.
The better thing to do now is to study ways in which the american and all people of the world to sting the GOP party, because they ramain with old idiology.
We all need to fight with GOP.

1 week in office and nobody is happy. wow! Detroit has to be furious about the emissions crap and gays are mad because of Warren and anti-war nuts are mad because now it will take till may 2010 to pull out troops or longer if it puts our troops in danger. Obermanns mad becasue of lobbyists are in the white house. The only happy ones are the abortion crowd, which makes the life crowd mad. CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.

billybob–Does anyone take the media seriously anymore?
What matters is that Bush protected America. This recession will end and soon be forgotten, but not the FACT that Bush provided security for 7+ years.
Smoke on that liberals.

candy–So now Democrats are going to solve all the world economic problems? I recommend not letting Barney Frank or Chris Dodd anywhere near analyzing investments.
You are a true blue BHO supporter, aren’t you.

enoughalready, I’m not sure you’ve said anything in any of your posts. Although, this:
“angie–Ever herad the old saying ‘Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me?”"
…is WAY too easy pickings.

Billy Bob don’t you manage down your bottom line?
Youre saying if you had extra cash you’d automatically purchase equipment and hire people? That doesnt make sense. Maybe you’d hire more people if you got a large contract thats bigger than what you can currently handle. But you can get a working capital LOC for that. Or finance the equipment purchase for the big job..the interest expense would manage down the bottom line nicely.
Why would you hire more people if your revenues are flat? Im surprised your still in business. Oh wait your not, your on a message board instead.

silky, google Steve forbes, flat tax, he has it all figured out. the guy is a smart mad and Obama would do good to listen to him, but he wont.

WORKER MAN
Thats all you Republicans can say about Bush Is he Kept us Safe? He kept us safe? What about Jobs What about his Economic Policies? Yes I will give him that he has Kept us safe. But on the other hand he Failed to get Bin Laden, The war In Iraq was Senseless and has Nearly Bankrupted our Country, And he pretty much has ran The country into the Ground BUT HE KEPT US SAFE HAHAAH LOLO

angie–I’ll take security over cyclical downturns anyday of the week.
Without national security, these discussions would mean squat.

Angie, don’t forget to mention that 9-11 did happen on his watch

Silky; 1′s and 2′s aren’t very good on a scale of 1-10.

“silky…
You sound like a typical lib (just a guess)!!”
Do you have a specific point your referring to?
And you SPEND your way out of a recession. The majority of the debt is thanks to your guy, not mine. My guy is looking to invest in our future, while creating a ton of jobs.

“the FACT that Bush provided security for 7+ years”
That’s nice you don’t count the 4,000 lives lost on September 11th, eight months into Bush’s first term, after the memo he received entitled “Al-Queda deternmined to attack America homeland.” You are a generous man. Sweet of you too to ignore the estimated 13 billion dollars Bush’s administration lost to fraud in Iraq. You give your President a lot of leeway, I suppose you are as patient towards the Democratic President as well?

I think we can all agree that the repubs and the dems have failed this country for the last 8 years. BArney Frank, Chris Dodd, Paulsen, Bush the list goes on on both sides. So why would government be able to pull us out of the mess they put us in?

BSKI
Yes 911 Did happen on his watch and he still Failed to get Bin Laden Instead he decided to Start a war With a country who had No Involement what so Ever with 911 Real smart he was Mean while Bin Laden and the Terriost Networks our Still operating!WORKER MAN Without a Job and Money to Pay your Mortgage of feed your self Is Security going to pay or Bills feed your Family?

silky–World War 2 got us out the Depression. Not bloated government spending on public works.

“Silky; 1′s and 2′s aren’t very good on a scale of 1-10.”
I’ve never seen a Fortune 500 company use a 1-10 scale for performance appraisals. All three I’ve seen have been 1-5, with 1 being the highest mark.

“silky–World War 2 got us out the Depression. Not bloated government spending on public works.”
Spending related to World War II. And the investments in infrastructure began to pay off.

Worker Man
I do belive It was your Party That still had most of the power When the Bush/Paulson scam passed

No society, “house”, divided within itself, will stand. What’s up for America? A fallen nation? This is where we are headed and fast. This government party system love the idea, but will this really make them look good? I hate the idea. Big corporate names are gone now. Will the name America disapear too! Honestly, America, we really don’t have that chose to continue to hate, be greety, and claw our way on top of one another for a prize. We either come together as a people with a functional government or we disappear. Call it evolution, if you like. I would prefer to put the bakes on this mess and start working, together.

silky–NO
That millions of men joined the military, thus freeing up low paying, factory jobs for those left behind.
My grandma worked in one of those factories and by today’s standards, it would have been closed due to safety hazards.
FDR turned a recession into a depression by increasing the size of government and more money than it took in. Something rarely done before 1928.
Damn you Keynes.

“No society, “house”, divided within itself, will stand.”
Actually, I think Obama’s approval rating is a good barometer for where the country is in terms of cohesion. We’re doing okay in that regard. This message board is not an accurate snapshot.

I have a small business. A dinky business is a better word. I’m paying taxes today and I have about 6 forms in front of me, -w5 941 940 w-3 w-2 unempoyment tax, relocation tax, sales tax, real estate tax. I’d like to let silky figure this out and pay them for me. I’ll bet he’s never made payroll before.

CHAOS–I bet she’d do a better job than Tim Geithner or Charlie Rangel.

“government is the problem” when Republicans are put in charge of it.
Let them go back to running their corporations and leave governance to the Democrats.

And in case you BHO groupies don’t know, Charlie Rangel is in charge of the tax codes, yet he didn’t know that he was supposed to pay taxes on a vacation house.
OOPS. Not to worry though, he’s a Democrat (and black) so don’t expect any reprecussions.

Maybe if Republicans would actually put some effort into solid ideas and get off the tax cut mantra as their solution to the economic problem (as usual) something could actually get done and they could take part in the credit when this package works. That’s what is missing that they don’t agree with in this package. Tax cuts only help the rich. Any idiot can look at our economic history to see this. History also clearly shows that our economy will begin to get back on track just as it has every time we’ve had a Dem POTUS.
The Dems and Obama have given them a chance to take part in the credit and they have declined. The package will get passed anyway and the Republicans will gnash their teeth and stamp their feet, throwing a tantrum like the whiny children that they are and show that they just can’t get along with others and were no help as usual.

FS–”No matter WHO was responsible (its now irrelevent), the problem is here!”
Ever heard of learnig from past mistakes so that they are not repeated in the future?

amy: I suspect you benefit from government in some way.

“And in case you BHO groupies don’t know, Charlie Rangel is in charge of the tax codes, yet he didn’t know that he was supposed to pay taxes on a vacation house.”
Some of the best financial advisors’ own finances are a mess. Many doctors smoke. One has nothing to do with the other.

“amy: I suspect you benefit from government in some way.”
Amy is too articulate to need government help. You, on the other hand, have surely benefitted from a goverment handout at some point in your life.

CHAOS
I am dreading doing my taxes, as a matter of fact. I work two jobs and end up paying more in taxes. This year I’m going to open an IRA, however, and claim that deduction. Maybe that will bring it down. I’m looking forward to Obama getting his middle class tax reduction through Congress. Yay, Obama!

silky–It is not racist to point out that my property value in 2003 was X amount of dollars. And in 2006, it was that same X amount minus 20%.
What changed you ask? The formerly well kept house that now had “affordable homeowners” in it. “Cutting the grass is for white people” was the answer I received when I asked them to take care of their property.
Tell me again, who is the racist?

“silky: with other peoples money, You said it all with that one statement.”
I said all of what? You’re not saying what you think you’re saying.

“Tell me again, who is the racist?”
You.
Everybody’s property values were dropping by 2006.

northpark–Are you on crack?
Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military base, not civilians.
Did you know that the WTC was bombed in 1993 under Clinton’s watch? Or that time after time Al Qaeda struck America interests overseas.
9/11 was a culmination of Al Qaeda slowly stepping up attacks on American interests, due to getting no response from backboneless Democrats. Bush put them on the run for 7+ years, and now they are getting cozy again, now that we have another spineless Democrat running things.

I am amazed at the number of people that want our counrty to fail. Talking heads, no achievements of there own, ever… but think they have the answers. Oops! I used the wrong word… “think”. They let Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh do their thinking… that is scary.

silky; LIberals spend other peoples money easily, you made payroll with other peoples money not form your check book. there is a big difference .

Why do little small Businesses complain about Taxes? do you Know the things they get to write off and In obamas new plan they will be able to write off more then they have currently been Read up on it

silky–You are obviously black. since you are so touchy.
Property values dropped nationwide because the same thing that was happening in my neighborhood was/is happening nationwide.
Damn you liberal social engineers.

Angie, yes and the SBA is a great program for these small businesses! No real reason to not get a loan, especailly if the fees go down! They really have nothing to gripe aboout.

“FDR turned a recession into a depression by increasing the size of government and more money than it took in.”
Unemployment was at 25% when FDR took office. FDR put my grandfather to work building roads, which got him through the Depression and resulted in some fine infastructure in Maine. My Dad served his country in WWII and went to college on the GI Bill, which lifted our family’s fortunes further, so yeah, to CHAOS’s comment, I guess I have benefited from government programs.

CHAOS Im not for raising taxes on small business but im also not for cutting them. Im for raising taxes on fellas who bring $200M plus in paychecks home every year! (M means thousands in the real world) You have to expect paperwork if youre running a business, it’s called administration/office expenses.

workerman, I was not aware 6 civilians died in 1993. my bad, but it only brings my count up to 3. My comment about icy roads still stands.

“silky–You are obviously black. since you are so touchy.”
No, I’m not. You are obviously racist, since you’re…well…racist.
“Property values dropped nationwide because the same thing that was happening in my neighborhood was/is happening nationwide.”
Lol! Yeah, that’s it. It didn’t have anything to do with too much building and people defaulting on loans.

You can tell who has never run a business here.

northpark
Since you didn’t even know that Americans died in the 93 WTC bombings, you obviously have no grasp of what has been happening since then.

workerman your analogy is weak and insulting. I have not insulted you at all. I’ve been very respectful to you.

Angie
Obama’s plan is to give “95% of Americans a tax break”, but the problem is 50% of Americans pay no federal taxes.
In Econ 101, we would call that a welfare check.

silky–I said the word “ghetto” and you call me a racist.
So what do you call the fella that told me “mowing grass is for white people?”

Ha ! my spelling sux.

northpark–You can insult me all you want. I’m not a touchy feely PC liberal.
Just get the facts straight.
Claiming that the 93 WTC bombings had no civilian casualties just shows your lack of knowledge that I as a conservative have grown accustomed to from liberals.

northpark–So if you can’t even get those easily refuted facts straight, what else are you wrong about?

“Unemployment was at 25% when FDR took office. FDR put my grandfather to work building roads, which got him through the Depression and resulted in some fine infastructure in Maine. My Dad served his country in WWII and went to college on the GI Bill, which lifted our family’s fortunes further, so yeah, to CHAOS’s comment, I guess I have benefited from government programs.”
ZING!

Angie
Other countries hate us because they are JEALOUS of us. America has 500lb poor people in welfare lines. Our “poor” people live like sultans compared to other countries middle and upper classes. I lived in Europe several years back, and believe me when i say that there are no trailer parks/ghettos filled with 500lb occupants!
Capitalism has created the most wealthy, generous and powerful nation the world has ever seen. France and Germany have been around for how long and we crush them in every aspect. That has to create a little jealously, doesn’t it?

silky–You stated “There were fatalities and they were trying to knock one of the towers down that time, too.”
ONE of them down?
Since you can’t get your facts straight either, I must ask you the same question as I asked “northpark.” If you can’t get simple facts correct, what else are you wrong about?

Dave
Did you get that check from Bush SOCIALISIM?

angie–I can’t speak for “dave” but I got one. And turned around and donated it plus $500 extra to charity.
Us Republicans are so evil, huh?

Dave another right wing Idealogy Other countries are Jealous of us thats why they hate us, No Its because certain Republican Presidents Have tried to Instill American ways And American cultures Down their Throats LIVE LIKE US OR DIE!

The Repugs of congress went hog-wild when they were a majority, so give them their own medicine.

Worker Man
Great for you what charity Did you donate too? but I thought Republicans think Donating to Charity is a form Of Socialisim DAVE get your facts straight obama wants to give the tax breaks to WORKING families.

Well, I gotta run.
PS: I got laid off last week. Not to worry, I won’t be getting on the gubmint gravy train. I have something most BHO groupies don’t. Marketable skills and education. No liberal arts, theater, or urban studies classes in my past.
As my 97 year old granddad now says: “pimps and prostitutes always outbreed hard workers. That is how BHO got elected.”

Dave, you need a history lesson on WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Serbian/Bosnian War, the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars.
But God, where to start?
“Vietnam was lost because of liberal hippies screaming “make love not war”. America left prematurely…” 50,000 American servicemen killed is not enough for you? Were you even around in the 60′s and 70′s? I was, and believe me, the Vietnam War was a lesson Bush should have learned from and didn’t (I find it interesting the Vietnam War wasn’t worth his life to fight in.)
You and the “liberals hate the military” mantra…do we really need to go over the list of Democrats who have served and Republicans who haven’t?

Angie
Did you really say “republicans believe charity is a form of socialism”?
You liberals have clearly lost your marbles.
Please check the US gov’t data taken after the 2004 election. Republicans are FAR more generous with their money then liberals. Liberals are always FAR more generous with OTHER people’s $$$.
Joe biden for example made $2.59 million in the last 10 years and has given less then $3,000 to charity, which is around 1%. Now that is what I call patriotic joe!
Or how about the messiah of global warming? He gave roughly what biden made. Awesome!
And finally, who can forget barry O??
The man who has a brother living in a hut in kenya and a relative living in a slum in boston.
Barry, it is just like you said. We truly are “our brother’s keeper”.

I’m tired of all the talk of partisanship, like it’s a bad thing! Partisanship is a result of congressmen and senators realizing that their loyalties lie with the voters and taxpayers – not with the president. It is their job to look out for us and they feel a massive spending bill is too expensive, they are obligated to speak up.
By the way, Clinton and Bush both had stimulus bills that passed, but there was fierce debates over them – as there should be.
I should also mention that there are conservative democrats who are also opposed to this bill – it’s not just the republicans.

Dave
Since your Pointing out The democrats Personal Finances How about a list of Republicans Charity Donations cant wait for this one

Amy,
50,000 serviceman bravely gave their lives to a conflict that was a noble cause but was doomed from the start because liberals were never going to allow America to win.
Regardless, you ignored my pointing out that MILLIONS of south vientnamese were slaughtered after we left. But who cares, right? MAKE LOVE NOT WAR, right?

“Last time I checked Germany has not started any more holocausts lately, have they?
Or Japan has not been dominated by BRUTAL Imperialistic tyrants that bomb our military bases in Hawaii lately, have they?
The list goes on, but then again, liberals aren’t interested in facts.”
What these examples have to do with Iraq is beyond me.

“Republicans think Donating to Charity is a form Of Socialisim…”
What kind of nonsense is this? Just google “Faith Based Initiative” program and learn something about Republicans.
While many liberals are crying that the government needs to “do something” about poverty, convict recidivism, drug abuse, preventing former drug abusers from relapsing, disease in third world countries, etc. many evil republicans (many through their churches) are out there doing something about it.
Get off your high horse. The truth is, democrats and republicans have more in common than most people care to realize.

Silky,
I would like a formal apology from you because you have called me a “liar and a moron” MANY times regarding this (we have argued about this before). Please apologize after you read this posting.
In the last few debates, Obama has stressed that he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans. Here’s a quote from the first debate, courtesy of CNN:
My definition — here’s what I can tell the American people: 95 percent of you will get a tax cut. And if you make less than $250,000, less than a quarter-million dollars a year, then you will not see one dime’s worth of tax increase.
The second debate, again courtesy of CNN:
So let’s be clear about my tax plan and Sen. McCain’s, because we’re not going to be able to deal with entitlements unless we understand the revenues coming in. I want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of Americans, 95 percent.
And the last debate, again courtesy of CNN:
If I can answer the question. Number one, I want to cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans. Now, it is true that my friend and supporter, Warren Buffett, for example, could afford to pay a little more in taxes in order — in order to give — in order to give additional tax cuts to Joe the plumber before he was at the point where he could make $250,000.

Silky,
I would like a formal apology from you because you have called me a “liar and a moron” MANY times regarding this (we have argued about this before). Please apologize after you read this posting.
In the last few debates, Obama has stressed that he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans. Here’s a quote from the first debate, courtesy of CNN:
My definition — here’s what I can tell the American people: 95 percent of you will get a tax cut. And if you make less than $250,000, less than a quarter-million dollars a year, then you will not see one dime’s worth of tax increase.
The second debate, again courtesy of CNN:
So let’s be clear about my tax plan and Sen. McCain’s, because we’re not going to be able to deal with entitlements unless we understand the revenues coming in. I want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of Americans, 95 percent.
And the last debate, again courtesy of CNN:
If I can answer the question. Number one, I want to cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans. Now, it is true that my friend and supporter, Warren Buffett, for example, could afford to pay a little more in taxes in order — in order to give — in order to give additional tax cuts to Joe the plumber before he was at the point where he could make $250,000.

MIKE O AND DAVE
Please do state the Republicans charities you too are Ranting about Im cant wait too see!

Angie
Liberals don’t walk the walk when it comes to helping the poor, left-leaning columnist Nicholas Kristof confesses in a we-can-do-better column for the New York Times Sunday edition.
The only debate is whether conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than liberals, as Arthur Brooks, author of “Who Really Cares,” claims, or twice as much as liberals, as a study by Google indicates.
Kristof admits to being “unhappy with my findings,” echoing sentiments from the researcher Brooks:
“When I started doing research on charity,” Mr. Brooks said, “I expected to find that political liberals – who, I believed, genuinely cared more about others than conservatives did – would turn out to be the most privately charitable people. So when my early findings led me to the opposite conclusion, I assumed I had made some sort of technical error. I re-ran analyses. I got new data. Nothing worked. In the end, I had no option but to change my views.”
Other findings from the data:
- Conservatives are more likely to donate blood, and more likely to volunteer
- If liberals and moderates donated blood as often as conservatives, the U.S. blood supply would increase by 45 percent
- Conservative donations tend to support religious institutions, while liberal donations shade toward the arts and education (Kristof argues that the former is more likely to help the needy, citing research showing that donations to education disporportionately favor wealthy Americans)
- Conservatives give more to non-secular charities than liberals (when proportion of income is considered)
- The middle class gives less than the working poor
- Individuals from European countries donate far less than Americans, though European governments give more humanitarian aid per capita than the U.S.
Of course, donations are important regardless of the donor’s political ideology. These studies are often little more than fun facts for friendly teasing between political rivals.

MIKE O
So you have no Problem that President Bush may have gave Rebate Checks to people who dont Pay taxes Its ok But if Obama proposes it Its Socialisim And an outrage a little Hipocritical dont ya think?

dave DISRESPECTS President Barack Obama by referring to The President as “barry.” dave shows DISRESPECT for The Office of the U. S. President – because DAVE IS AN INTRACTABLE, FIERY-EYED RACIST!”
(dave, if it would be too difficult on your psyche to Respect The Man, at least have enough Character to Show Respect for The Office Of The President of the U.S.A.)
And this guy with the absurd moniker “worker man” is an outright racist hatemonger!

DAVE
Since you were ranting about Biden Gore And Obama can you name any Republican Politican that Donates to charity?

Silky,
I give up. You have consistently been an “open minded” liberal by calling me a liar. When I proved you wrong, you side stepped. I hope that everyone who gets into discussions with you sees how futile they are, and how ridiculous you can be.
Dave said:
“Barry said DOZENS of times that 95% of Americans would get a tax break.”
Silky responded with:
“No, he didn’t. You are LYING. Until you can prove otherwise, I’m going to refer you to his tax plan, which I have done multiple times now, and which has been available for all to see since the beginning of his campaign.”
Dave posted:
In the last few debates, Obama has stressed that he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans. Here’s a quote from the first debate, courtesy of CNN:
My definition — here’s what I can tell the American people: 95 percent of you will get a tax cut. And if you make less than $250,000, less than a quarter-million dollars a year, then you will not see one dime’s worth of tax increase.
The second debate, again courtesy of CNN:
So let’s be clear about my tax plan and Sen. McCain’s, because we’re not going to be able to deal with entitlements unless we understand the revenues coming in. I want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of Americans, 95 percent.
And the last debate, again courtesy of CNN:
If I can answer the question. Number one, I want to cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans. Now, it is true that my friend and supporter, Warren Buffett, for example, could afford to pay a little more in taxes in order — in order to give — in order to give additional tax cuts to Joe the plumber before he was at the point where he could make $250,000.

Bobj72
Did you know that 1,800,000 went to barry’s inauguration and only 10 missed work that day?

Angie, and by the way, it’s spelled HYPOCRITICAL. Sorry, it’s the public school teacher in me coming out. :)

MikeO
THANKS

The “Psuedo Intellects” from “Right of center to the Far Right fringe” seem to be Intimidated by “Silky?” Why, I ask? Is it that he has a consistent, well-reasoned, logical argument? You even embarrass yourselves by accusing him of being a “Paid Blogger.” (Quite an honor I’d say.) But if True, where’s the Counter from your camp?
It’s clear there’s NO consistent, coherent, logical argument from ANY OF YOU! And regardless of how you may decorate it, it comes down to Republican’s having the arrogant desire to “call the shots!”
I for one (1) say; “take your half-baked ideas” to the back of the line! You lost and you don’t want to participate in “mature bipartisanship.”
dave DISRESPECTS President Barack Obama by referring to The President as “barry.” dave shows DISRESPECT for The Office of the U. S. President – because DAVE IS AN INTRACTABLE, FIERY-EYED RACIST!”
(dave, if it would be too difficult on your psyche to Respect The Man, at least have enough Character to Show Respect for The Office Of The President of the U.S.A.)
And this guy with the absurd moniker “worker man” is an outright racist hatemonger!

Angie/Silky…now you’re putting words in President Obama’s mouth or trying to infer “what he actually meant” but I don’t believe that was Dave’s objection. Silky accused Dave of saying something that President Obama didn’t say. He proved you wrong. You owe him an apology on that. Be mature enough to apologize, though. Remember, “words have power.” And an apology when you are caught accusing someone of something that turns out to be wrong is appropriate and civil. It’s not admitting you agree with him. Don’t be afraid…go ahead. It won’t hurt. And you’ll feel better about yourself afterwards. It would also help your credibility.

MikeO
I Am not putting words into the Presidents Mouth. But Commonsense How can you get a tax cut If you dont Pay taxes? and I belive he meant The 95 percent of Working Families that make under 250,000 Dollars a year Not alot of People make that

northpark: I do enjoy running my own business and have been moderately successful, but all people should know this: the consumer (end user) always pays all the taxes, so raise taxes on me or on gm or ford, you will may more for the product period. So who gains by larger taxes? people who are dependent on the goverment and the goverment

Angie,
please, don’t you know the difference between charity and socialism. OMG please find a dictinary

Posted by: dave | Jan 28, 2009 12:18:00 PM; You said; “Did you know that 1,800,000 went to barry’s inauguration and only 10 missed work that day?”
I ask; “Do you think that will have a significant impact on the GDP?” Employment Statistics I have learned over the years, indicate more than 70% of workers in all segments of the labor market, have more than five (5) Vacation Days due to them at the end of each year.
dave, you DISRESPECT President Barack Obama by referring to him as “barry.” dave you show DISRESPECT for The Office of the U. S. President – because you DAVE, ARE AN INTRACTABLE, FIERY-EYED RACIST!”
(dave, if it would be too difficult on your psyche to Respect The Man, at least have enough Character to Show Respect for The Office Of The President of the U.S.A.)
And this guy with the absurd moniker “worker man” is an outright racist hatemonger!

Of course, the Terrorists are much smarter than Republicans. Until Republicans learn that the Terrorists are the enemy rather than other Americans who disagree with them, the Terrorist will win. It’s a pity, bin Laden is so smart and Bush, Cheney and the Republicans are so dumb and so un-American.

Angie said: “I Am not putting words into the Presidents Mouth. But Commonsense How can you get a tax cut If you dont Pay taxes? and I belive he meant The 95 percent of Working Families that make under 250,000 Dollars a year Not alot of People make that.”
———-
The second you try to infer what he “meant”, you are “putting words in his mouth.” And that wasn’t what the disagreement was about, not what he meant. It was about what he SAID. Dave made a claim that President Obama made a specific statement, Silky denied that the President ever made that statement and called Dave a liar. Dave proved him wrong. Apology is warranted. You can go round and round about what he MEANT, but the issue was what he SAID.

“Well, you’re the one who has to live with your conscious, not me, so if you’re at peace with yourself after referring to a 97-year-old man who you know as a “a moron and a liar” then all’s good I suppose. Just remember, when you call someone names, you reveal more about yourself then the person you’re attacking.”
I’m Irish…I have an albatross of a conscience. It’s a blessing and a curse. If his 97 year-old granddad really feels that way, then I stand by my comments.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the amount of discourse and discussion between liberals and conservatives on this discussion board (presenting ideas, providing rationale and, if possible, evidence to support the ideas) is more than the Democratic Congress is allowing the GOP? We’re more bipartisan than Congress!

Posted by: Come ON! | Jan 28, 2009 12:39:20 PM
I can tell you, I never referred to President Bush as “Dubya.” As I honestly thought it was an affectionate moniker, created by his Republican followers to ‘hype’ his “Cowboy Diplomacy.”
And NO I do not, and did not respect anyone who chose to show such disrespect for the President of the U. S. No one whom I am personally associated with, would show such disrespect.

Angie said: “MIKE O But Bush did the Same thing People who Didnt pay Taxes Got a rebate Check. why is ok For your President Bush and What he did Was not Socialism.”
——-
As I said before, when did I EVER say I agreed with President Bush sending “rebate checks” to folks who never paid income taxes or didn’t pay as much as they received back. Again, you are reading things into my comments. I would think that from my 12:37 post that I would consider that, too, as Socialist. However, I suppose I could spin it and make some claim that he did that to appease the Democrats and call it bipartisan, but I won’t go there. I might just be making things up (since I don’t know for sure and won’t make any claims as such). :)

“Barry is a socialist”
The progressive tax structure is inherently “socialist.” By your definition, the U.S. is a socialist country. Maybe it’s not the place for you?

Dave, you jump from characterizing liberals as cowards and appeasers in Vietnam, to stingy, selfish DINKS (dual incomes, no kids, formerly called Yuppies, formerly Beatniks, formerly Flappers and I don’t know what else.)
No amount of factual information slows your drive to scapegoat a group you call “liberals.” As a matter of fact, I just gave blood last week. But what would you do with that fact? Throw it out the window because it doesn’t agree with your preconceived idea of how liberals behave.
Liberals exist in your imagination as everything you don’t approve of. “They” are to blame for everything, “they” don’t have the correct values, “they” don’t have jobs, oh, they do, but “they” are so selfish they don’t contribute to charity. And you wonder why the liberals you insult on this board end up calling you a moron?

“Yeah What about the People that dont File Their Taxes? And Mike and Dave I am pretty sure people knew what the President Meant or Else he would not Have been Elected!”
It’s not even a matter of interpretation. There is no wiggle room. You cannot experience a tax cut if you don’t pay taxes. Period.

Your point is still wrong, dave. And I’ve proved that to you multiple times, so I’m not retracting anything because I think you are either ignoring the truth or consciously being deceptive. Either way leads to the same conclusion.

SILKY
I Agree You cannot get a Tax cut If you dont Pay Taxes!I cant Figure out for the Life of me Why Republicans cant See the logic and Commonsense in that

Amy,
I don’t doubt you are blood giver (me too, sometimes), I was just pointing out that studies have shown (they are all over the place really) that conservatives are more generous with their $$$ then liberals are.
Liberals have just been able to build up this lie that they belong to the party of people, when in reality, all they do is shove entitlements down voter’s throats using OTHER people’s $$$.
This accomplishes 2 things: democrats keep getting elected and the poor stay poor. Welfare is the new form of slavery.

angie: Carter and BO are but I don’t think Clinton was. At least Carter lived up to his socialism, got give him credit for that. But BO is just another politician.

DEMOCRATS KEEP GETTING ELECTED AND THE POOR STAY POOR
Really Dave alot of People became Sucessful And Wealthy under the Clinton years, more then I can say for the Bush years seems to me under Bush years the Rich are about to become Poor! Losing all their money in the stock Market,Businesses closing up And Unemployment lines are becoming longer and longer PLEASE DONT FOOL YOURSELF DAVE SOME ARE SMARTER THEN THAT

Comment by Angie: “I Agree You cannot get a Tax cut If you dont Pay Taxes!I cant Figure out for the Life of me Why Republicans cant See the logic and Commonsense in that.”
——-
If it is simply a lowering of a marginal tax rate, then you are correct. If it is a refund of taxes (income and/or other payroll) already paid, then you are correct (although some others might not support my “caving in” on returning FICA payments to the taxpayer, but I can live with that). If it is a fixed amount check sent to everyone, regardless of whether or not that person has actually paid in that amount and/or is not already receiving it back
with his/her normal tax return/refund), then you are incorrect.
My question to ALL is this: what does the bill ACTUALLY say? Is it a lowering of the marginal tax rate for all (or the “95% that make less than $250,000″)? Is it a rebate check, where some will get back more than they have paid in? Is it a mid-year change to the final tax rate that will result in some getting back more than they have paid in during the year? I can’t tell; all I hear are talking points from both sides. If it is not money going to folks that did not even pay in the amount that they are getting (a.k.a. “redistribution of wealth”), then why does the GOP think that it is? Anyone got a solid answer on that?

“Silky said (or quoted, I have lost track): “Yeah What about the People that dont File Their Taxes? And Mike and Dave I am pretty sure people knew what the President Meant or Else he would not Have been Elected!”
————
Are you SURE that is what everyong believed? C’mon, just apologize and let’s move on. You are actually presenting some good discussion and arguments, and hopefully many reading this discussion forum are at least getting a clearer picture of what each side believes, even if they are disagreeing with it.”
That was Angie, I think. It wasn’t me.

CHAOS, noone is raising taxes on buinesses’ as we are in a recession. The only tax raises are for people who make over $250M. And if your lifestyle happens to be marginal on a $250M AGI, then youre living it up and need to tone it down a little. thats all.

northpark: Who was the last dem to lower taxes? I don’t make over 250g and I will see my taxes go up in the next 4 years. He can’t raise taxes onthe wealthy and get enough to do what he wants he has to raise it on the middle to.

The word “fair” gets tossed around a lot in discussions about what an individual should have to pay in income taxes. “Fair” is very subjective and open to wide interpretation, and can essentially be used to defend one’s position without actually defining it, appealing to what their target audience might possibly define “fair” as.
Some would define “fair” as: you make way more money than I do, so you should pay for most, if not all, of the services provided by the government, since you obviously can afford it. (disclaimer: I realize this is a categorization that may not be true for all, but it is an accurate representation of how I see some using the word).
Others would define “fair” as: “I work hard for my money, and just because I make more than others, I have to pay a larger PERCENTAGE of my income out in taxes. All I want is to pay the same percentage of my income as everyone else, not be penalized by paying a larger percentage (that some want to increase) of my income for my economic success, just because you think I ‘can afford it.’”
This “fair” thing was thrown around a lot during the election, and it’s obvious that people have differing definitions of “fair.” I would assert that President Obama believes more along the lines of the first definition (as that is how I heard him use the term throughout the campaign).
Thoughts?

CHAOS: how did you calculate your tax increase? Oh wait your crystal ball? thought so. please dont address me if you cant backup your claims.

Norht Park, you keep saying 250M. You mean 250K, right?

Went to the House Appropriations Committee Web site to view the bill that the Democrats wrote (http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1_text.pdf). It’s 647 pages! Yeah, let’s rush this thing through and not look at it in detail.
Someone want to help figure out what it is saying as far as tax relief. It looks like it starts on page 251 of the document.

what is K anyway? Never made any sense to me….the media uses B for Billion and M for Million b/c they dont think the readers can comprehend roman numerals..unless of course youre watching a movie, they’ll throw 15 roman numerials out at you at once as you try to figure out what year the stupid movie came out.

These Republicans naysayers here are truly comtemptable. Bill Clinton left a surplus for Bush! After eight years of incompetent government leading to uncontrolled greed and excess, we are now in the worst financial crisis since the depression and at the edge of being the worst ever. Yet, all you can do is criticize! Dont you realize that if Obama fails then you fail! You lose your jobs, houses, tuition money etc etc. Stop the imaturity and hatred and start helping out!

EVERYONE STOP RUSH LIMBAUGH HE IS AN UNAMERICAN SKUM!

hh
You are further proof that the liberal media is extremely effective (as if any more proof is necessary after the election of BO). Rush has CLEARLY stated that if BO’s goal is American socialism, which it obviously is, he hopes he fails. That is not arrogance talking, that is someone who knows that capitalism works and socialism does not.

The true colors come out -
WHEN THINGS DON’T GO YOUR WAY, CRY RACIST!
That argument is getting worn-out, sweetie pie.
This bailout is nothing more than payback for ACORN and all the other Obamabots!
How do condoms stimulate the economy liberals?

Republicans partisan? hahahahah
When they had the majority they certainly didn’t make any effort at all to get the democrats involved. They used filibustering and cloture to control what was legislated.
So now they will do their utmost to delay any activity despite the fact that ordinary americans are losing their homes, their jobs, their health care – — and our infrastructure is in disrepair.
They’ve been the party for the wealthy and big business for so long they have completely forgotten about the rest of us and our indifferent to the pain their delays inflict.
I will especially remember Boehner for his stupid remarks about more money for birth control during these hard times – he thinks thats a bad idea. ARGH!

Amy
I couldn’t stay away! I am at work now, but I still must defend America against the socialist liberals as long as my boss doesn’t see me.
Rush is a true American patriot, plain and simple. Now, what do i consider un-American?
Hmmm… how about sitting in a church for 20 years where the theme on Sundays is
“GD America”
“America is the worst terrorist nation in the world”
“America created AIDS virus”
“America deserved 9/11″
“America is run by greedy rich white folk”
After listening to that filth for 20 years, no wonder barry’s wife has never been proud of her country!

Funny how Rush can even think straight with all the drugs he takes and getting busted at the airport with Viagra PRICELESS

trueblue 2:19 pm…so “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander”? I thought President Obama wanted to move beyond partisan politics, “Change you can believe in” and such. Your comment doesn’t seem to reflect that attitude. Maybe THAT’S the problem in Congress right now.

RUSH A PATRIOT
He is nothing but a fat lazy piece of s–t He sits behind a microphone all day Bashing people who dont agree with him and when you do call his show and try to Debate and call him out on his stuff he Hangs up HES SLIME!

I am also at work, and defending America from neocons in between calls, at least, until my boss finds out.

Amy said: “how come those super successful capitalists we keep hearing about didn’t do so well in a deregulated, free market, Republican era.”
——
Don’t kid yourself into thinking we have been in a deregulated, free market era. Many did do well, but factors outside of their control (housing bubble bursting, financial industry problems) have dragged them down, too. It’s one of the risks in the free market economy. No one ever said it was perfect (no economic system is), just better than any alternative, offering incentive for those that are willing to work for it. Yes, there is room for corruption and cheating to occur, but there is in any economic system. Just ask anyone from the former Soviet Union who wasn’t a party member if there was any corruption.

Mike O, just becasue someone was in the market when it was going good, does not mean they were in it when it tanked. The people that made out by doing illeagel activities should not be let off the hook b/c the market went back down. sheesh now I know where you get your flat tax rate logic from.

Workerman you really know how to work the system. Wow, I am really impressed. You took that check for $500 and added $500 and gave it to charity.
Any chance you will be claiming it to the IRS?! Wow, talking about getting your money’s worth. LOL

first lesson of socialism/communism is to get rid of free thinking people who are smart and articulate. hence the petition against Rush. I can’t believe that the libs are so stupid that people won’t see this as an anti-freespeech move.

North Park said: “K is for Kilo but the US uses pounds. So to me that doesnt make any sense. All American financial institutions use roman numerials. Only car dealerships and media use K for thousand and M for Millions. What does the M stand for mr smarty? What does the B stand for?? this logic means $25,000 should be $25T correct.
——–
In data networking, KB stands for KiloByte (1000 bytes) and KBPS stands for Kilobit (1000 bits) Per Second (actually is sometimes used for 1024 bits or bytes). MB stands for MegaByte (1.000,000 bytes) and MBPS for Megabit (1,000,00 bits)Per Second. Like I said, I’m not trying to bust on you for your use of M as thousand, just trying to answer your question as to why some use K for thousand. My my, you are sensitive!

“I am also at work, and defending America from neocons in between calls, at least, until my boss finds out.”
I want to party with you, lady!

“silky : you have never listened to Rush have you? He inspires alot of people to be thier best and also he is very much a constitutionalist.”
I’ve heard him plenty, though it’s been at least 10 years. He is a pig, out only for he and his, and all about dividing people. He knows that he needs to keep his base angry. It’s good for his ratings and it’s good for his taxes. I despise the man. He’s a Michael Moore type figure to me.

North Park said: “Mike O, just becasue someone was in the market when it was going good, does not mean they were in it when it tanked. The people that made out by doing illeagel activities should not be let off the hook b/c the market went back down.”
————
When did I say anything about the financial markets? Sounds like you are reading into my comment something that is not there. I am talking about that business (large or small) that was doing well and expanding when times were good. That goes from the small entrepreneur that might have been able to expand his/her business like adding on to his/her restaurant, to the large business expanding. Since economic activity has dropped significantly over the past year, those folks are being impacted by other sectors.
As far as your comment concerning folks profiting from illegal activities needing to be held accountable, I am in total agreement. Not everyone who did well in the good times was a crook, though.
As far as my “flat tax” comments, I don’t remember advocating for a flat tax (although I will go on the record and say that I am in favor of one). I was simply referring to someone who already pays a larger percentage of his/her income based on income level will now be required to pay an even LARGER percentage of his/her income. It’s punishment for doing well economically.
Perhaps you would care to explain why that individual/family would have to pay an even larger percentage of his/her income, carrying an even larger tax burden, so that the government can spend even more?
Please, cease with the ad hominem attacks. You are presenting valid arguments; I am just responding to them. No need to attack me.
To quote Uncle Hulka from the movie Stripes…”Lighten up, Frances.”

Dave
I bet you get all of your Information from Fox news the most Biased News channel on tv, Only MORONS Like you Belive Everything out of Limbaugh,Hannity,Oreily but you know what The Public has woken up to their biased one sided reporting ITS ABOUT TIME!

Heres what you said, “Many did do well, but factors outside of their control (housing bubble bursting, financial industry problems) have dragged them down, too.” Thats not true and very ignorant of you.
You imply people who did well in the beginning also suffered at the crash. Im saying not so.
It is a free market true, but not so free when there is corruption.

“As I have said before, liberals are always praising free speech until you say something they don’t want to hear.”
For example?

“As I have said before, liberals are always praising free speech until you say something they don’t want to hear.”
Silky, To answer your request for an example: The Fairness Doctrine

“Rush is a patriot? Now THAT’S funny.”
I finally get a chance to post this:
Republicans who did not serve in the military: Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, George Will, Bill Kristol…
Democrats who served their country: Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, George McGovern, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, John Kerry, Tom Daschel…

North Park said: “MikeO you proved no point. It good to know you admit being a jerk. You see thats how you “touch nerves” by participating in a debate only to not be truthful. Obviously it is somehting youre proud of. You have issues.
Your explaination of M K and B is not that funny either. More like bad nerdy funny
———–
I’m not trying to be a jerk. However, when you make flawed assertions or use false logic, I will call you on it (like your presumptiveness in judging someone else’s lifestyle based on a given income level, but took offense when someone judged your lifestyle based on similar, equally subjective criteria). Do I honestly think that you make too much and live too well? Absolutely not, but that is a purely SUBJECTIVE judgment based on my life situation, not on some objective standard. That is where the problem lies, with some judging others based on their personal life situation, and assuming it is an objective fact instead of a subjective opinion.
As for my K, B, M explanation, I wasn’t trying to be funny. I was simply trying to explain why some use one set of terminology and another. How you read denigrating humor into that statement is beyond me.
I guess you feel the need to attack me. I’m a big boy; I can take it. I’m not attacking you (or anyone), just pointing out the flaws in their logic and flaws in their assertions. If you’re not prepared to defend or justify your statements, I would suggest you find another activity to entertain yourself.

“”As I have said before, liberals are always praising free speech until you say something they don’t want to hear.”
Silky, To answer your request for an example: The Fairness Doctrine”
So because a few Democratic Senators have said that it’s worth looking into reinstating it “liberals are always praising free speech until…blah, blah, blah?” This is where you lose people. This is where you lose credibility. You take something that two or three people say and attribute it to tens of millions. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Damn you white racists holding up my welfare bill today!
Barrack promised to put gas in my car and pay my mortgage.
Stop holding up the bailout!!!

Dave, I agree, the petition against Rush Limbaugh is just plain silly, but its also true, in the course of voicing his opinions, Rush has disseminated lies and misinformation to an uneducated group of Americans for decades, and the mainstream media refuses to refute his arguments, because they so respect the millions he makes in their field. (See: Rush Limbaugh is a Big, Fat Liar, by Al Franken.) PS Katie Couric had Rush on her first news hour show, I turned him off and haven’t watched CBS News since.

Oh and Dave one more thing I am no liberal I am an American!

Angie
Your comments are really causing me to reflect on what I hold dear and believe. Keep up the good work! The level of intelligence you convey with each new post is astounding.
However, you do realize that if liberals were forced to stop calling republicans “dumb” they would be robbed of 3/4 of their insults.
-Regan was dumb (he was even more targeted by the media as a stupid hick then Palin). Regan being called a senile old hick didn’t quite match up to his record, though. Ending the cold war, getting us out of the Carter years by bringing down record inflation/ unemployment rates, ending the iranian hostage crisis.
-George W Bush was very dumb. This is despite the fact that he got higher grades at Yale and Harvard then John Kerry, never flunked out of lawschool like the messiah of global warming..err climate change did, never got caught cheating in college like Biden.
-Sara Palin
This woman rose to power on her own. She didn’t sleep with it like pelosi,huffington and clinton did, she earned everything herself.
Just keep watching Farenheit 9/11 and saying to yourself “Bush lied! Kids Died”. It will make you smarter, I promise.

choking on that heaping plate of big black crow yet you moronic disgusting republicans??
watch your republican troglodyte obstructionist a$$es get voted out of office in 2010 and after as well ,cause EVERYONE sees who is dragging their feet .
the republican president/treasury didnt have a problem spending/doling out the first 350 bil without ANY oversight ,during the last gasp 25th hr machinations of the generally utterly moronic bush administration.
now that theres a promising,intelligent fair minded politician/president (who just happens to be a democrat) allocating those TARP funds ,additionally promising AND PROVIDING the needed transparency the republicans somehow “forgot” to include on their “watch” , all the idiot republicans cry/whine all at once , mostly because because their fat stupid drug addict ideologue(s) tell/bid them to.
bipartisanship? you gotta be kidding me. after the last +/-30 years worth of republican greed mongering and ineptitude? not likely simpletons.
this country has really been on the skids since that moron reagan worked his trickle down voodoo economics b/s spell on the overtly ignorant american voter .
hint: get ready for we liberals raising/taking and subsequently appropriating your taxes for whatever wild-eyed liberal pork laden “project” we so desire. obstructionism will only result in less republicans in the governing process ,which will then allow even more liberal laws. catch 22 for you!!
youre in it deep now republitards.
GET USED TO IT OR MOVE!!

listen up
Put down the crack and start looking for a job. Just because your sugar daddy got elected doesn’t mean you won’t get to live in that apartment for free.

yeah davie boy ,check back in with me after april 15th k?

Just following along
Well, you know how it is with us liberals, some of us woke up from our bong induced comas and realized the Republicans had started two wars, grown the wealth of the top 1%, silenced government scientists who wanted to address global warming, refused to finance stem cell research to save the two-cell “souls”, attempted to put social security account money into the stock market, lost 13 billion dollars in fraud in Iraq…oh, you know, we are a little testy. Glad to see your still mellow, though, read the paper much?

Dave
why do you Insist on lying about What President Obama said or Hasnt Said or are you repeating sound Bites off The Hannity show?

“Sorry to disappoint you, but to an unbiased observer, I thought Dave seemed a bit more factual, less hysterical and made more reasoned arguments.”
Right, of the two of us I’M the one who comes off hysterical. Gotcha.

Angie
Socialism is gov’t owned enterprise. It means you pay 50% in taxes to give the gov’t control of every aspect of your life because it knows what is “best for you”. That is my definition of socialism.
i have also lived in EU for a while and I have seen the fruits of socialized health care, and let me say that I was begging to return to the US.
Barry has surrounded himself with socialist individuals and sought out marxist professors in college. His own statements expose him as a socialist. That does not make me far to the right, it just makes me right about calling him a socialist.

He’s not talking about putting healthcare in the hands of the government, dave.

Silky
You called me a liar and a moron (and not just today) because I said barry promised 95% of AMERICANS a tax break, when in fact roughly 50% of Americans pay no federal taxes to begin with. I called that a welfare check. You repeatedly said barry NEVER said that. Really, did you ever listen to one of his cue card speeches?
After I proved you wrong without a doubt, you refused to apologize and admit you were wrong.
If you are going to say I post “half truths, gross exagerations” please be more specific. You’ve seen how the whole “moron/liar” thing worked out, so start arguing with facts or quit responding to my posts.

“Come to think of it, I think dave is just following along.” Posted by: Silky
Sorry to disappoint you but, alas, just following along and dave are in fact two different people, and just following along is quickly tiring of this silly conversation.

Bobj72
Barry is a socialist
BO is a socialist
Barry is a socialist
BO is a socialist
I respect BO as much as he respected the oval office when he sat in rev racist’s church for 20 years.
I am no racist, but I would LOVE for you to point out anything that I have ever said that would lead you to believe such a ridiculous thing.

Dave
So your denfination of Socialisim does not fit into Obamas plans or Character,Well let me tell you this
1-If you have Elderly parents OR Grand parents and the recieve Medicare by all means get them off of it (SOCIALISIM)
2-Godforbid you should lose your Job and cant buy food dont dare apply for Food Stamps STARVE TO DEATH (SOCIALISIM)
3-Godforbid you should become Injured and cant work Dont you dare Apply for Social Security Disability (SOCIALISM)
So Dave I say to you if these things should ever Happen to you then Suffer because you dare wouldnt want to apply for these Social Programs But I Often wonder How many Hipocritical Republicans out there do apply for Recive some of these Programs or know people that do

TARD
Excatley Dave is a parrot for Hannity,Rush and Oreily. He cannot produce Facts That 50 Percent of Americans dont pay Taxes the only thing he can do is keep repeating and ranting the conservative far right nonsense!

The Republicons are being played.
Obama gets his bill passed while showing he is very responsible, responsive and presidential.
The submissive Republicons continue to prove that they are the party of yesmanship, obediently following the cues from the only leaders of the GOP: Drudge and Rush Limpbaugh

Vote democrat, it’s easier than working!
Posted by: ha ha
So true, for if you follow, the Great Party will giveth.
Only schmucks work these days – these are the days of a chicken in every pot(the tofu version, of course); a mule for every farm (since tractors and the fuel that runs them will soon be outlawed) and great reward for all those who obediently follow!

dave– ok. well in my hometown the food shelves are empty, and there is alot of skinnt sickly looking people around here.

I’ve been watching this whole exchange between Dave & Angie and I have one question…. Angie – how old are you? I thought name calling went out with middle school. It really doesn’t add to your credibility.

Posted by: dave | Jan 28, 2009 5:39:52 PM;
You said; “I am no racist, but I would LOVE for you to point out anything that I have ever said that would lead you to believe such a ridiculous thing.”
I say; “You are such a novice.” I know you, but you have not a clue about me. You are the “classic average White guy” – who takes for granted he can say or do whatever he pleases. (Include being disrespectful of the Office Of The President Of The United States!) And your attitude is; “Damn anyone who would choose to challenge me.”
I’ll be kind enough to share with you, how you’re easily identified; “You’re the typical “racist-gunslinger”, shooting-off your verbose pontification with NO Regard for anyone, but yourself. (Assuming you have ‘the right’ to go unchallenged.)
You see, there are some of us out here who live by the creed; “acquiescence is acceptance.” So you will be challenged sir, whenever you “cross the line.” For if WE should fail to challenge you, your ‘veiled venom’ may well filter into the minds of the misguided, miseducated or ill-informed.

North Park said: ” Only car dealerships and media use K for thousand and M for Millions” That is not true. I have worked in accounting and finance departments for 25 years. No matter what the industry (healthcare, education, law firms & financial institutions), we used ‘K’ for thousands and ‘M’ for millions.

dave…Many world leaders endorsed Obama. Especially leaders of color? And please share with us what,”similarities regarding policy and message”, they share.
The lemmings are wearing GOP pins, and seem to have taken their American flag pins off…

dave’s just a Republican mouthpiece, no thoughts of his own, just tow the Republican party line, right dave?
Your comparison of Obama to Castro was chilish, at best. But, many republicans have lashed out like angry children on these boards, since the election, and the inauguration.

T
Thats the problems with Republicans They dont care about other People only their own Ideals and their own Party

Dave
I Dont recall Obama saying he is going to give Free Healtcare, Free Day care or free anything
Oh An Ellsbells
you say Im name calling why dont you go back and read Daves Post obama is a socialist,Obama is a Maxtrist

Angie,
I don’t mean to call you a liar, but you are definately fibbing.
I did said barry is a socialist (I could prove that in court) but i never said he was a marxist.
I posted that in dreams from my father barry said “in college I sought out the marxist professors”.

Gravy
Dave is afraid of CHANGE Because he knows Change meaning the country will not be ran on far right Idealogy like the past 8 years

I do recall Fox news stirring that word Socialism up

Listen up people,
Barry sat in an anti-capitalist, racist preacher’s church for 20 years. The insane pastor even inspired him to write a book titled after one of rev racist’s speeches “audacity of hope”.
Barry’s political career was kicked off in bill ayers’ living room. That man blew up multiple gov’t buildings, has never apologized, has advocated overthrowing the evil capitalist powers, and has been photographed standing on the American flag multiple times.
Barry’s wife said twice in public that she has never been proud of her country. What would she do in private? Give bill ayers high-fives?
Now take those associations, add in barry’s own ridiculous comments, the 1933 Germany-like adoration from the media and it is very scary.

ellsbell—its not we cnat take of our self just we cnat protect ourslevs from the corrupt rich and big business.

dave keep it up rush limburger is so proud of you fro spreading hate and fear. my self i chose hope and prosperity for all not just the rich.

Gravy Remember when they calle Michelle and Baracks fist bump a Terrriost fist Jab hahaah Ah want a good laugh tune into Fox News

“1933 Germany like adoration from the media”? First Castro, now Hitler? What’s next, dave? Sadam Hussein? They do share a name…How about Hugo Chavez? Robert Mugabe? How many tyrants and murderers can you possibly attempt to link to Obama?

Vote democrat-it’s easier than working!

5

Bottom line here is, Barrack Obama has said from the beginning that he was interested in bipartisan cooperation in Washington. And, it’s clear that the Republicans aren’t hearing it. And many Dems are still fighting along policial lines as well. If these people can’t work together, we’re ALL doomed.
Nancy Pelosi needs to start playing nice, she’s not the big Dem dog anymore. (no pun intended, jokes welcomed). Did you see her face when Obama held his bipartisan congressional pow wow? Girl looked like she was gonna spew chunks.

T ,she’s gonna be a thorn in Obama’s side. I hope he can talk her down.

Michelle and Nancy need to have a knock down, drag out…er…sorry…Sit down, a cup of tea, perhaps?

“T” said so eloquently…
its not we cnat take of our self just we cnat protect ourslevs from the corrupt rich and big business
Huh???

BO, please realize that history already has a neville chamberlain and we don’t need a second.
You are doing everything in your power to weaken America, which has been the long tradition of liberals in power. Please wise up.

Bostinks…be specific.
And a Neville Chamberlain comparison? Really…

T- Who can’t protect themselves from big business? We’re doing just fine. The government needs to just stay out of it all. By the time they get done spending the money in this so-called stimulus package, the recession will be over all on its own. It’s going to take up to two years for a lot of the package…the amount of time a recession usually reverses itself without interference.

Gravy,
I’ll try to make more sense, like your buddy “T”. I do have a mind of my own, which is why I can question Obama proposals, and not just agree with everything he says. Not a “hater”, just have a different viewpoint…still allowed in the USA…for awhile anyway.

we hope the stimulus works and it did pass THe House but it has to pass the senate and has to go through a conference report the money for family planning and other ridiculous thigns are already out of it… the far left people that think they are owed something need to take a few steps back… and if you fall off a cliff so be it!

JL,
Maybe because they were elected. The ones who lost are no longer in office. The ones who won are still in office and therefore we need to care about their opinions. That’s how it works. One could just as easily argue that Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, etc are just as responsible for all the messes you describe whe they were “bi-partisan.”

JL
Rush said if barry’s goal his socialsim then he wanted him to fail. I think our founding fathers would agree with rush, don’t you?

dave; I intend to redirect my attention to more formidable and productive purposes. Responding to you – Lends Credibility to your baseless, pedestrian hatemongering.
You YEARN FOR ATTENTION and many participants can’t resist challenging your hatred. But, I will Force Myself to IGNORE YOUR baseless, pedestrian hate.

bobj72 – Social Security is the largest ponzi scheme in the world. It, like Medicare, should never have been put into place by the Federal government. And yes, SS should be privatized, since it exists. Eventually the market WILL go up again – just like it always has.

Posted by: Sandra | Jan 29, 2009 9:44:41 AM;
You said; I’m fed up with their idea of bipartisanship, which is “let’s compromise and do it my way.”
I say; “Sorry to say, there is some mysterious factor causing you to become delusional!!!” A Minority Party has ‘earned the right’ to be in the minority. And that is; If you’re invited in, you’re being treated as “an equal.” Don’t “Blow it” by refusing the ‘invite’ or humiliating the Host who extended the invitation to you. (Bad manners, both socially and politically!)
Now, for the sake of simplicity, I ask you to complete this thought; “To the Victor go the Sp_ils.” ‘Nuff said.

The Republicans suffer from amnesia, it hasn’t been 10 days since former Pres. George Bush left the oval office and somehow the Repubs want to stall and come off as they are looking out for the better good of the people. It took eights years for America to go from having surplus money in the treasury,to a bankrupt economy. The Repubs don’t want to buy into the program to prevent bipartisan blame if the plan fails and the economy slips further into a recession. Now they want to come off as saviors for the people of the United States, but tell me where were these 100 economist when the nation was slipping two years ago. Some economist came forward with truth about the state of the economy, however quickly there were economist weighing saying the opposite. So who are we to believe the Repubs and there overt hidden agenda to regain power, or should America banned together and realize that we are in this together…