Welcome to Washington, President Obama

“This is but step one in the revival of the Republican party – in particular, the conservative roots of the Republican party!”
Actually this is another step towards permanent minority status.
House GOPers voted this way because they fear primary not general election challenges.

There were a couple of TN Democrats who were against it- I wonder if they got stampeded:
“Republican Reps. Marsha Blackburn of Brentwood and Zach Wamp of Chattanooga, a candidate for governor, were adamant in their opposition to the bill.
“I want to support the new president, (but) I’m worried about the pork in the bill,” Cooper said. “I think the president is trying to offer a clean stimulus bill and (Democratic) congressional leadership is practicing business as usual.””

Posted by: Dear Leader Chairman Maubama | Jan 28, 2009 6:26:29 PM
What the Republicans have done over the past few administrations they were in power, hasn’t worked. How can you even think that they know how to fix the economy.

The Democrats won the election. Why even bother dealing with the Republicans.

Pelosi is going to be the problem for Obama. If he really wants bipartisanship, that is. Her bill was designed for and by Democrats, and it was clear from the outset no Republicans could support it as written.
As much as pundits want to say this is shocking, considering Obama’s big win– every single Republican and Blue Dog Dem in the house just won their elections, too.
There was a chance to pass a real bipartisan stimulus bill, but this wasn’t the bill. Bad form, Nancy. You are going to be the downfall of your President.

They talked with some economists on ABC and they gave it high marks in a few key areas. The only thing they gave bad grades to was for Endowment for the Arts. I agree we need to fund the Arts, but that can come at a later time.

Isn’t the proper, and TRUTHFUL, headline as follows:
“BIPARTISAN OPPOSITION FAILS TO STOP DEMOCRAT’S STIMULUS PACKAGE, THE LARGEST SPENDING BILL IN AMERICAN HISTORY”
12 Dems voted with the GOP. No GOP voted with the Dems. How is Obama bipartisan again? The opposition to Obama is bipartisan, and this is the first vote in the Age of Obama.
Spin that, Obama sychophants.

The repubs are about to get trickled on.

The people voted overwhelmingly against bipartisanship. Now Obama can give up the pretense. The Republicans got the watered down bill they wanted, now we can go ahead and pass a real stimulus bill with some real spending.

I hope that we all are going to make these people accountable for their actions. The era of old politics is over. Our voices were heard this past November and they will continue to be heard.

Is there any chance they just thought it was a really bad bill?
I think it was a horrible bill, and I’m all for some stimulus.
Posted by: MayBee | Jan 28, 2009 7:05:15 PM
If they really had a problem with it, why didn’t they have a bill of their own that they could have put pieces of both together for something everybody could live with.

From a political pont of view, it makes sense for the GOP to all vote against the bailout. If it doesn’t work they can all run against it. If it does work, which it will, they can say that they just couldn’t go for another bailout. But what does it say about a party that gives a blank check to the GOP Bush to save the fatcats on corporate jets, but sits on its hands when it comes to getting the economy going again and providing relief to average Americans. It’s another nail in the GOP coffin. If they voted their consciences and were not party robots, they would not all vote together in lockstep all the time.

Jwench:”If they really had a problem with it, why didn’t they have a bill of their own that they could have put pieces of both together for something everybody could live with.”
+++
Nancy Pelosi would not let them introduce amendments, and she did not ask any Republicans to participate in the writing of the bill.
They did come up with other ideas, but they don’t have the power to bring an alternate bill to the floor of the house.

So after 8 years of spending us into bankruptcy and pouring money down the rathole in Iraq – after letting Wall Street right its own ticket and redistribute the wealth in this country to stamp out the middle class the Republicans discover fiscal conservatism?
yeah. I bought that bridge and I took it back for a refund. It will be a cold day in someplace before I vote for another Republican. Good luck president Obama. I am sure you will make mistakes but at least you have ideas.

the rep will do anything to make President Obama fails since failure is their only slogan. Limbaugh said it loud and clear: our objective is to fail the choice of American people.

I praise any politician who may have voted what they think is best for the country. This probably included many Republicans, the dems who voted against this, and the dems that voted for it. I do however highly doubt that every Repub was against this plan and for them this was solely a politcal decision that should be ridiculed.

Obama won’t be getting the 80 votes he hoped for in the upcoming Senate votes, but the outlook for Senate passage looks likely with the Dem majority. Unfortunately, more concessions are likely to be made, despite the excellent probabilities of the stimulus passing without the Republican votes. More concessions to them won’t prevent another voting bloc against it. They’ll remain intransigent no matter what.

These same noble Republicans created this debt by enabling George Bush and his failed policies. They supported tax cuts for the wealthy in a time of war. Where was their concern about debt and deficits then? They supported the biggest expansion of the federal government in recent memory.
The legislation was not perfect and probably would have been better if the administration had drafted it rather than congress, but all Republicans can do is say no and offer obstruction? The alternative bill they presented was a complete and utter joke.
I hope a few more Republicans get pitched out in 2010. They deserve it.

Nancy Pelosi would not let them introduce amendments, and she did not ask any Republicans to participate in the writing of the bill.
************************************************
Reasonable concessions have been allowed, if amendments were introduced to the bill it would be grounded for indefinite amount of time, which would run counter to some Republican arguments that the stimulus effects should begin ASAP. As far as I remember, the Bush stimulus of tax rebates wasn’t written by Democrats, nor did it effectively address the problem. Not that I’m negating the extra money or deductions that were gained from it.

“The Democrats won the election. Why even bother dealing with the Republicans.”
================
While it makes nice press and everyone feels warm and fuzzy, Obama is not the glad-handing, across-the-aisle-uniter on which he campaigned and which the press was oh-so-ready to believe.
Obama was seeking Republican support so when (not if) this stimulus effort fails he had political cover in 2010 and 2012. The Republicans (and 11 Dems) weren’t buying it. Good for them.
Let’s be clear: This package is not good for America.

Kathy: As far as I remember, the Bush stimulus of tax rebates wasn’t written by Democrats, nor did it effectively address the problem. Not that I’m negating the extra money or deductions that were gained from it.
==========
Are you referring to the tax rebates that were passed in 2008 by a Democratic House and Senate?

Can any supporter of this stimulus package state how this package will stimulate the economy?

No Republican voted for the bill? Maybe it’s because Reps understand that only business can create economic value – NOT GOVERNMENT!! DUH!! Money to ACORN will help stimulate the economy? DUH!!

Can any supporter of this stimulus package state how this package will stimulate the economy?
Posted by: tjp612 | Jan 28, 2009 7:40:26 PM
The transportation money creates jobs. They are injecting money into the states who desperately need it.I live in PA and even State workers are being laid off. I guess Obama could be like Bush and sit on his rear end and let it get worse, or he can try things to try and get the economy going.
The only thing that should wait I believe is the Endowment for the Arts. That can wait until the economy is back on track.
Let me ask you what ideas the GOP has. Giving tax cuts to the rich won’t work.

Only business can create economic value. Republicans get it – Democrats do NOT get it.

And What Ideas did the gop bring oh thats right Tax cuts Thats it

The Republicans have nothing to gain by the stimulus working. Let’s go all in. We Democrats can bet on it, they can bet against it. If it works, we can bury them in the next election.

the last eight years have taught us what the republicans stand for.
and for them to come out of the block voting against anything that could possible help straigten out part of the mess they created is unbelievable.
i think once this starts to work, and the masses of people see it is better to do something good that works than nothing at all. the reps will change their tune and decide to work with the president.
they rubberstamped everything george bush sent their way, because he and cheney told them to shut up and just do it. and they did. and now we are in a mess.
the bill is not that bad that not one rep. could support it. not everyone stuck with the herd.
after the last eight years, and this
if the reps. don’t try and get their act together they are committing
political suicide.
without all reading it, they had no plans to work with the president.
and they will pay in 2010

Sarah Palin may just have become president with this vote. If the Senate Republicans stand firm also it is a sure bet that a Republican will take the presidency in 2012.

@ skip “The Republicans have nothing to gain by the stimulus working. Let’s go all in. We Democrats can bet on it, they can bet against it. If it works, we can bury them in the next election.”
That is the reasoning behind the Republicans voting against it. They know it will fail miserably and are willing to bet on it.
OBAMA OWNS THE RESULTS OF THIS PLAN

omg!
sarah palin, fishing around for book deals, she has become a legend in her own mind.
she will not be president.
and if the reps. were so good at knowing how to help create jobs,
why after eight years of republicans
are so many people losing their jobs?
and so many business going out of business?
ralph nader will be president before sarah palin does.

Ryanc, FDR’s policies extended the depression by seven years. If it were not for WWII his policies would never have produced a healthy economy.
Spending that focuses on increasing the size of government will never produce a healthy economy. Deficit spending will not produce wealth. take a look at Japan in the 1990′s and you will get a clear picture of where Obama’s policies will lead us. This is Obama future.

You know what will work better than this pie in the sky stimulus package? Give every American citizen the $8000 the fed is going to blow on closed end job programs which are dubious at best!!!

“Ryanc, FDR’s policies extended the depression by seven years. If it were not for WWII his policies would never have produced a healthy economy.”
Because two libertarian economists feel that way does not make it so.
“Spending that focuses on increasing the size of government will never produce a healthy economy.”
Depends on the spending.
“Deficit spending will not produce wealth.”
I would agree. Why did it take you 8 years to come to that conclusion?
“take a look at Japan in the 1990′s and you will get a clear picture of where Obama’s policies will lead us”
Japan’s interest rates were zero.
Hmmmm the right wingers are mentioning Japan and the UCLA study.
Did Rush or Hannity mention them on the show today?

11 Democrats also voted against the Obama porkulus plan.
Ouch…that has got to hurt.

Ryan C – Bush warned Franks and company (a number of times)about the danger of easy loans, but was assured that there was NO PROBLEM!! I do blame Bush for not taking the problem directly to the American people, but to blame Bush for the economic collapse is bogus.

I hope Obama at least gave the people who voted for his plan some Chardonnay. I think that is the consensus wine choice for pork.

“FDR’s policies did nothing but increase the size of government till the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Pick up a history book sometime!!”
————————
And the size of government shrank during World War II? What do you think stimulate the economy in World War II? Tax Cuts? No, it was MASSIVE SPENDING! You pick up a history book sometime…

“Ryan C – Bush warned Franks and company (a number of times)about the danger of easy loans, but was assured that there was NO PROBLEM!!”
Historical revisionism at its finest.
How soon people forget Bush’s homeownership society or that Republicans were in from control of Congress there was dangers of easy loans.

You right wingers are so smart. Why not run for office with your brilliance.

When Bill Clinton passed his economic growth bill back in 1992, not a single Republican supported, but it nevertheless brought about an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in our history.
The difference between Bill Cliton and PBO is that not a single democrat abandoned him either.
PBO’s money giveaways has brought down the economy, back 1.5 years ago when he promoted the pre-recession money giveaway. He will have the same result, unfortunately, because Socialism has proven to be a bad idea, in China, in East Europe, in west Europe, in South East Asia, in South America.

“The $825 billion package slated for a House vote later this week will exceed more than $1.1 trillion when adding in the interest ($300 plus billion) between 2009-2019 to pay for it.”
“$825 billion is just the beginning – many Capitol Hill Democrats want to spend even more taxpayer dollars on their “stimulus” plan. In fact, the Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, Rep. David Obey (D-WI), told Roll Call earlier this month, “I would not be surprised to see us go further on some of these programs down the line.””
“Although the House Democrats’ proposal has been billed as a transportation and infrastructure investment package, in actuality only $30 billion of the bill – or three percent – is for road and highway spending. A recent study from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found that only 25 percent of infrastructure dollars can be spent in the first year, making the one year total less than $7 billion.”
“The plan establishes at least 32 new government programs at a cost of over $136 billion. That means more than a third of this plan’s spending provisions are dedicated to creating new government programs.”
“Even though the legislation contains at least 152 separate spending proposals, the authors of the plan can only say that 34 have any chance at keeping or growing jobs.”
“All board members of the “Accountability and Transparency Board” created by this legislation are appointees of the President; none will be appointed by Congress.”
…and there’s more…
Now does it makes sense why Republicans (and 11 Democrats) voted against this package?

“The stimulus package passes the House of Representatives, 244-188. ”
Must have confused Obama, no one voted “present”.

It made perfect sense that the Republicans would all vote against it before you attempted to enlighten us with that document TJ. The GOP has no intrest in seeing Obama succeed. I believe they would have voted against it regardless. It’s the same old two-party baloney.

Its too bad that republicans voted for medicare drug plans for seniors,signed off on Kennedys no child left behind, pumped billions into homeland security right after 911 or spent anything on defense- they could really be called conservatives and really be hated. Its also too bad that we buy so much oil from the middle east, its not that they don’t buy Boeing airplanes by the armload or huge equipment purchases for oil related activities or invest in our businesses its just that we should sell them everything and get our oil for nothing, after all, dog gone it, were Americans and we deserve something for nothing.
I really like our prospects with all this spending and we now have the man who was watching all the banking in the New York area, you know the banks that sucked the economy under, in charge of the whole system. If he needs any more banks to go under all he need do is to send Schumer out to broadcast their failures and start run on them.
Chuga Chuga choo choo the pork express is underway. Hop on!

@ Skip -
Obama supports this bill. I don’t. Therefore, I don’t want Obama to succeed either.
Despite all the adulation given, remember this isn’t about Obama. It’s about our country.

“Despite all the adulation given, remember this isn’t about Obama. It’s about our country.”
Right. So if the bill is passed, we should all hope that it succeeds.

“It also brought about a changeover in control of both houses of Congress from the Democrats to Republicans. Don’t be surprised if history repeats itself.”
Its silly for the two of you to argue that Clinton’s 1st budget did either.
It wasn’t the budget per se that results in economic prosperity but a combination of reduced spending and increased taxes to reach a balanced budget.
And the Gingrich revolution?
That was because of other factors not limited to several Congressional corruption scandals (much like 2006) & a disciplined on message GOP with a slate of new and interesting candidates.

“”Ryanc, FDR’s policies extended the depression by seven years. If it were not for WWII his policies would never have produced a healthy economy.”
Because two libertarian economists feel that way does not make it so. ”
Actually, Robert Whapples did a survey of 178 economic historians and 49% agree with the proposition
“Taken as a whole, government policies of the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression.”

“”Despite all the adulation given, remember this isn’t about Obama. It’s about our country.”
Right. So if the bill is passed, we should all hope that it succeeds.”
So, just because a majority of our elected representatives pass a bill, this means all of us are supposed to agree that the bill is sound and the we should hope it succeeds?
What happned to “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism” sung out by libs during the Bush years? Doesn’t apply to those of us who happen to disagree with The One?

More taxpayer money going to anybody BUT the taxpayer… And the people “support” this thanks to “the corporate fawning media…”

Hi Ryan,
Good to see you’re hard at work. Both the GAO and CBO think it’s a lousy plan. I don’t know why anyone would think a single Republican would support it. Hey, as the President so succinctly put it, he won. The Democrats are in power and are free to do what they please. That’s the way the system works. If it works, they get full and exclusive credit. If not, there’s no George Bush to kick around. Don’t expect the opposition part to play along and provide political cover.
BTW Ryan, is there anyone left at the Center for American Progress or are they all officially on the government payroll by now? If a Republican president emptied out the halls of an ideological think tank like the Cato Institute and put them on his or her staff would the NYT and others think that’s just swell?

Actually, Robert Whapples did a survey of 178 economic historians and 49% agree with the proposition
“Taken as a whole, government policies of the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression.”
Always dig a little deeper than Wiki Bertie though you were on the right track.
From Mr. Whaples study.
“On top of the profession’s lack of agreement about the genesis of the
Great Depression, there is a disagreement about the role of the New Deal.
In fact, the economists in the sample are almost evenly divided on the
question of whether or not when taken “as a whole, government policies of
the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression.” The
consensus among historians is that the New Deal did not lengthen and
deepen the depression. ”
Add to that the original claim was the majority of economists think the New Deal lengthened the Great Depression, your 49% would prove that false.

“”Numerous government and independent studies agree that corporate tax rate cuts provide relatively little “bang-for-the-buck” as stimulus. The Congressional Budget Office, for example, has concluded that a corporate rate cut “is not a particularly cost-effective method of stimulating business spending.”"
Consult Chrisian Romer’s study, from before her days in the Obama administration, “THE MACROECONOMIC EFFECTS OF TAX CHANGES:
ESTIMATES BASED ON A NEW MEASURE OF FISCAL SHOCKS”.
Her suggestion is that a 1% GDP increase in tax rates results in a 1.8% decrease in GDP over the next three years. The biggest problem being a serious decrease in investment.
Conversely she suggest a 1% GDP tax cut (of the type she calls exogenous, which is not the current situation) results in 3% GDP growth.

bertW you can find economists who will back up the theory a fart is a wind storm . . . so what? It is President Obama’s administration that must decide the proper course, not your pet economists.
“Well . . . if you think that he can turn things around in a month or three months or six months and there’s going to be some magical transformation since he took office on the 20th – that can’t happen and wouldn’t happen. So you don’t want to get into Superman-type expectations. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s anybody better that you could have in the presidency than Barack Obama at this time. He understands economics. He’s a very smart guy. He’s a cool rational-type thinker. He will work with the right kind of people. So you’ve got the right person in the operating room, but it doesn’t mean the patient is going to leave the hospital tomorrow.”
WARREN BUFFETT, CHAIRMAN, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY

“Don’t expect the opposition part to play along and provide political cover.”
I don’t.
I was hoping he could pick off double digits but he was unable to.
Unto the next fight.

No Republican votes and 11 Democrats also decided it was too dangerous to vote for this plan.
Ouch….I guess spending $275,000 for each job this plan is suppose to generate was just a little too audacity!

I guess hope just got a little bit of a smack down from reality.
Maybe Obama can take some of the money from the plan and just buy some votes in the senate. Given his experience during the campaign he should be good at that sort of thing.

What’s that bertw?
“Well . . . if you think that he can turn things around in a month or three months or six months and there’s going to be some magical transformation since he took office on the 20th – that can’t happen and wouldn’t happen. So you don’t want to get into Superman-type expectations. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s anybody better that you could have in the presidency than Barack Obama at this time. He understands economics. He’s a very smart guy. He’s a cool rational-type thinker. He will work with the right kind of people. So you’ve got the right person in the operating room, but it doesn’t mean the patient is going to leave the hospital tomorrow.”
WARREN BUFFETT, CHAIRMAN, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY

Have you noticed that the libs are not here to defend the plan and tell us how great it will make things? It seems all they want to do is attack the “right wingers” instead of cementing Obama’s claim on this legislation. They know this will be a millstone around Obama’s neck unless he can draw some Republicans in to avoid taking all of the blame when it fails. It appears that will not happen. I congratulate the Republicans for finaly showing a backbone.

Warren Buffett on Obama:
1) he understands economics
2) he’s a very smart guy
3) he’s a cool, rational-type thinker
4) he will work with right kinds of people
” I don’t think there’s anybody better that you could have in the presidency than Barack Obama at this time.”

Mickey Mouse on Obama:
1) he understands cheese
2) he’s a very cheesy guy
3) he’s a cool, rational-type cheester
4) he will work with cheese
” I don’t think there’s anybody better for cheese in the presidency than Barack Obama at this time.”

“Mickey Mouse” you are.

If Barack Obama took the 825 billion dollars and spread it evenly to every man, woman, and child each would get $2750. You could buy a car full of non-government cheese with that kind of money.

Born you seem to ignore the highways, building repairs, electrical grid, alternative energy industries . . and so on and so . .. as well as the jobs and the improvement of health care, the rescuing of sinking state governments (like Republican California) and so on . … you reduce this to ‘cheese’. Smart.

this is what I think: i am not convinced that Obama and Rahm didn’t see this coming. It seems to me that WH wooed and dined Repubs in a highly publicized manner so that the public will be abundantly aware that they were offered a chance to be part of the process and chose not to do so. They can talk about the exclusiveness of the house democrats, but all the public will remember is that the democratic president offered them a chance to participate. Republicans are thinking they can use this in their next round of elections in the same way the financial industry ‘bailout’ is used for a negative effect.
IMHO, the one glaring miscalculation the republicans are making is that if banks were voting, they would vote for the party that voted to have them bailed out. Since this bill is a bailout for the public, the public will therefore be voting for the party that bailed it out. Republicans are counting on the public not feeling the effects of this spending, which to me is beyond crazy since people WILL see and feel its effects soon enough. Unlike what the repubs are thinking, people won’t be as opposed to the spending once they get the sense its being spent on them. Think about your personal life: no matter how much you hate the idea of your husband/wife/child spending unnecessarily, you tend to soften up if you feel like they spent it on you.
Republicans can talk about deficit all they want, but dems have Bush’s deficit numbers to fall back on for talking points. The difference is that Bush spent the money on defense and military so the public didn’t really feel the effect of all his spending, but the military has expanded and improved under Bush. They have state of the art technology, good wages, ability to wage wars wherever they see fit etc. Talk to anyone in the military research/administration/duty etc. they will tell you how cozy things are for them. [except those who are on active duty, who take on their unfair share of burdens]. Wait till that sort of prosperity comes to every day people. No deficit talk will dissuade people from attributing their revival to the representatives who didn’t vote against it.

“By almost any measure, 2008 was a complete disaster for Wall Street — except, that is, when the bonuses arrived.
Despite crippling losses, multibillion-dollar bailouts and the passing of some of the most prominent names in the business, employees at financial companies in New York, the now-diminished world capital of capital, collected an estimated $18.4 billion in bonuses for the year.”

Republicans – it guess the saying is true.
Can’t teach a old party new tricks
Still out of touch
wah wah waaaaahhhh
so sad

Republicans had no problem giving billions to the banks with no strings attached, and, to add insult to injury, they voted to give themselves a six percent pay increase. Now the same republicans are refusing to support a bill that will bail out Americans who are in dire straits financially- because of policies the repubs supported. It’s simply disgusting.

The Republicans were not allowed to vote for it. The leader of their party, Rush Limpbaugh forbade it and they submissively followed along showing us that they truely are the party of yesmanship…..

Not one Republican Voted for that Bill,But was quick to vote for the Wall st Bailout Bill and noone Knows where that Money is I tell you this noone can say President Obama did not Try to Include the Gop He could of Just said F you Im President I will do what I please He doesnt need them But he didnt He even had Dems take Out things the Gop Didnt like, Would Bush have done that? hell no And what Ideas did the Gop have Anyway their same old tired tax cuts, Well Maybe it was a good thing they werent Included I mean its becaus of their Failed Policies we are in this Mess Cheers to you President Obama for being a good President so Far!

How much of a disaster would it be for the Senate version to come back to the House and still get zero Republicans on board? Very real possibility…
Or the more moderate Senate bill could bring on board more GOPers.
Either way, no amount of personal lobbying by Obama will change GOP minds.

A million people across the country tonight are Freezing and out of Power due to the Negligence of our Electric Grids, Thank you Bush for putting all of our money into Military and Neglecting our Roads, Bridges, Water. and Electrical grids these things are seriously outdated,Republicans will pay dearly for not compromising on this bill I see the gop becoming Extinct in 2010!

I guess we should do a mascot trade
Its the republicans who are acting like jacka$$es

@ Question
You make some very valid points. But I question a couple:
1. Bankers supporting Obama/Dems: Under most circumstances I would agree that rewarding the hand that feeds you pays off in the voting booth. In this case I’m not so sure given (a.) there were banks that had the bailout foisted upon them by Paulson involuntarily, and (b.) many bankers resent that the government hacks in DC are telling them how to run their businesses. So, not sure if bankers will be lining up to support Dems in ’10/’12.
2. “Bush spent the money on defense and military so the public didn’t really feel the effect of all his spending” – What about the manufacturers? What about the soldiers and there families? Civilian workers at expanded/new bases and facilities?
Any way you look at it, it will be interesting to see how all plays out…

The new leaders of the Gop are Rush Limbaugh,Sean Hannity, Bill Oreily yeah can you say Bye Bye GOP
Posted by: Angie | Jan 28, 2009 10:41:55 PM
========================
Angie
Any prediction who will win RNC Chair?
Running against Duncan are Michigan GOP Chairman Saul Anuzis, South Carolina GOP Chairman Katon Dawson, former Maryland lieutenant governor Michael S. Steele and former Ohio secretary of state J. Kenneth Blackwell. Former Tennessee chairman Chip Saltsman, who also ran former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee’s presidential campaign, has generated almost no support after sending party members a CD in December that included a song called “Barack the Magic Negro.”
I say old chip will get it. He seems to be in touch with the republican party.

Jen
don’t you think gingrey is a spineless brown-noser
I sure do.

Surprise!
The idiots pass their bill!
Obama is a genius at saying one thing and doing another! :(
Posted by: aware2u | Jan 28, 2009 11:00:13 PM
=======================
please just zip it and take the back seat as your worthless representative have done as we try to get the bus out the ditch
it was them and old dubya that got us here in the first place.

tjp what are you talking about? Everybody in the United States loves George Bush.

You want Herbert Hoover? I give you the Republican party!
Who wants to repeat the Great Depression? Not me. But saving the nation is of no concern to the Republican party. All that matters to them is posturing to see who can be the most Hoover of them all.
Here is the economic situation in a few sentences. The amount of wealth in the world has not changed overnight. The amount of need has not changed. American smarts and willingness to work hard haven’t gone anywhere.
Things are crashing because people are afraid to spend, and businesses are afraid to hire because they see an environment where everyone is afraid to buy.
The bright side is that all the world markets are so depressed, and all the other financial investments deemed too risky that the giant world pool of money is being put into U.S. treasury bonds.
For this reason, the Federal government has the ability to borrow money at an extraordinarily low interest rate.
SO you have an economy dying for lack of spending and the U.S. government is in unusually strong position to borrow. The logical solution, obvious even to the economists at the most conservative think tanks — is to use the thing we have to provide the thing we need. The only problem is these same people hate the idea.
The U.S. government should borrow another $2 Trillion dollars and spend it on infrastructure and spend it in developing renewable, American, sources of energy and tax cuts for the middle class that puts cash in people’s wallets.
And the U.S. government should borrow another $1 Trillion and open up a new federal bank that makes direct loans to sound small and medium scale businesses and consumers and students.
Unwinding the now toxic mortgage backed securities, and thereby detoxifying the big banks, is just too complex to do in less than a couple of years. And frankly, the U.S. economy can’t wait.
Therefore, the federal government has to step in and restart the machine that is the economy. Then we can turn around and privatize the new federal direct loan bank, at a profit.
The federal government CANNOT possibly be worse at making good loans than the big banks have been.

PS. Economists estimate that the true cost of the Iraq war at $3 Trillion. Don’t you wish you had never put a Republican in the White House?

I’m so glad that Republicans are there to watch our money for us. We’ve seen the great progress that tax cuts for the rich have done as well as the major bailouts for CEO’s, corporations, and industries during the Bush years. Yes, Republicans are our fiscal watchdogs. No more deficit spending.
However, I’ve been in a coma for the last 8 years but I heard Rush Limbaugh say it on the radio.

The bright side is that all the world markets are so depressed, and all the other financial investments deemed too risky that the giant world pool of money is being put into U.S. treasury bonds
**************************************************
What does the world market being depressed have to do with some large global investment into US treasury bonds? I don’t see the connection.

@tjp512
The $3 trillion comes from Nobel Prize Winning Economist Joseph Stiglitz.
He was there when we left Bush with a balanced budget.
Perhaps you should do the research yourself.

Hey, TypicalRepub,
Ever get a job from a poor person? (government jobs don’t count)
I haven’t. And somehow their wealth has trickled down to me.
And for all you who have complained about the last 8 years, speaking personally, I hope the next 8 years are as great for me as the last 8 years have been…
And before any of you libs start lobbing class warfare grenades, I’m by no means rich and come from a very modest background. The difference is I’m not counting on the govt. to provide for me, that’s my responsibility.

tjp612
we want the President to succeed as long as he goes down a centrist path and the stimulus thing will be a problem because the president himself said we need to get the treasury in their to come up with ideas… what was this stimulus thing then? It was a product of Pelosi and Reid… part of which Obama rejected outright with the funding for family planning thats absurd on its face!

Bush and his administration perpetrated a ‘redistribution of the wealth’. Under their watch, more and more money moved out of the hands of the middle class and into the top level of VERY wealthy. And we love them for it.

“bertW you’re going to have to do your own research. Obviously you’re far ahead of the people the President has surrounded himself with, but telling people to go do your research for you will be a failed proposition. ”
I already have- anyone can easily go to government web sites and see for themselves what the change in GDP and Federal tax revenue and total employment have been over the past 8 years.
If I just paste them in you’ll just blank them out as right wing talking points.
If you take the 10 minutes to educate yourself then you wouldnt post factually incorrect information. Making yourself and your position look bad.

tjp612
it wont create jobs and stimulate the economy liekt hey think… it was fashioned before the new administration came and in was modeled after the “bailout bill” that was controversial int he fall… so good luck with it… Im not republican but the repubs are smart not to add a single vote to it… the administration is goign down Clintons road in his first term now… the original faithful of the president hate to hear that the only substantive aides Obama have are from former Clinton admins!

I’m still waiting for a well-thought out response to my prior question:
“How will this stimulus package in its current form create jobs and stimulate the economy with a return commensurate with its cost?”
Anyone?
Posted by: tjp612 | Jan 28, 2009 11:48:32 PM
=====================
no no one. please enlighten us o genius. give us your plan.
please tell us so you can dismiss your frail attempt at schooling us with your great economic acumen.
please tell, get it over with…. because you becoming a bit annoying.

bertie
thats the thing omentum and prefros are spoiled rich people that wont be affected by any stimulus they have time to post on here because they arent blue color and dont have real jobs!

I’m not asking the question without providing better approaches to stimulus package in current form. See my post at 8:14 PM and fire away…

Market performance under Democrat Presidents has exceeded the market performance of Republican Administrations by almost 6.0%, and median market returns
under all administrations by just under 3.0%. History tells us to expect better market performance going forward under Democrat leadership.
With this stimulus expect jobs to created in engineering and construction firms and alternative energy sectors. Also, invest in municipal bonds.
Obama’s focus will be on the middle class regardless of what some fools on this board will claim.
Instead of blowing up infrastructure in Iraq and paying Halliburton to rebuild it, he will shift the money to US infrastructure.
Republicans/Conservatives/or whatever you classify yourselves with, pull the wire out of your bio port connected to your master Rush Limbaughs’ rear. Think for yourselves.

JV
I want the Presidents admin to succeed but nothing has been done to update infrastructure and and the electrical grid and help middle class in recent times just having it go through congress doesnt say that it will get done

tjp612
absoultely the “adults” like they that post on this board who were original Obamamaniacs had their children convince them to support obama because their kids get whateve they want! its one thing to get a bunch of mindless masses together and vote its another to govern

Prefros
Au Contraire! we argued in the primaries and argued with deficient Obama supporters but never Obama himself and now that he is the president we hope he succeeds but YOU are still deficient!(or impotent as I one phrased it in the primaries which is more than likely true)

“We havent spent anything like $14T so if the spending itself is the stimulus we must be getting something like a 1:4 multiplier.”
Good enough for me bertW old boy; Bush bankrupted and crashed the economy with these types of returns.
We can build one with the same ratio of returns.

“We can build one with the same ratio of returns. ”
You cant and you wont.
What do you think the multiplier is on renovating the Mall or fighting STD’s?
It 1:1 to 1:1.3.
You spend the money and its gone.
The tax cut is probably 1:.7.
You are going to spend a lot of money in 2010 and 2011 than is not goign to have any lasting effect on the economy.
The only real positive is that a lot of Congressmen get to crow about the pork they delivered for their districts and the local politicos get to scrap off large chunks in pay-for-play scheme like what Richardson was caught in.

Oh bertW if only we were all as smart as you.

prefos
sarcasm may have worked in the campaign but even the president knows you have to be serious now and grow up!

betiew
yea the pay to play schemes like in Illinois happen in every state and they dont get caught well except for Richardson in NM there is a double standard and a holier than though attitude from not the president but his people that they were above that… apparently not!

omentum
ah Gitmo… the President made good on a campaign promise but its jsut a review it will not be closed for a year… Gitmo is run by the military and the secret prisions elsewhere are CIA its he CIA you have a problem with
Posted by: JG | Jan 29, 2009 12:29:01 AM
=================
JG
I was talking about wasteful spending of u.s. dollars among other more tragic things.
good night all.

@ tjp612,
“How will this stimulus package in its current form create jobs and stimulate the economy with a return commensurate with its cost?”
what exactly do you mean by ‘in its current form’. That’s a phrase I have heard quite a bit lately and I don’t know exactly what it implies. What alternative form have the Republicans who concocted that phrase offered? It contains tax cuts for businesses and is stripped of what was heralded as the best example of a non-stimulating spending.
My honest take is that Republicans are really miscalculating big time. They probably felt that Obama has put much weight into a ‘bipartisan’ success and thought defeating him on that front would gain them some points. The point I feel they are missing is that they are filmed meeting him, heard discussing their meetings, the agenda, the ideas and so on. They gave him all the ammunition he needs to claim credit for his attempt at a new way of governing. and you KNOW he will live to talk about how the bill took Republican input, which it did.
You brought up a good question, but I’m a little confused. you should have been able to answer your own question. Consider this:
****Bush’s pentagon budget request for 2008 was $481 billion****
As you pointed out in reference to Bush’s defense spending “What about the manufacturers? What about the soldiers and there families? Civilian workers at expanded/new bases and facilities?”
As you yourself pointed out, smart spending has returns. The only problem with Bush’s approach was that it put all the American eggs into one basket and, more importantly, is not sustainable. There are only so many bullets you can fire (targets you can fire at) or surveillance you can undertake. It was unbelievably limited in its effect on the non-military affiliated public and the work was undertaken by HIGH-PRICED manufacturers due to the sensitive nature of the products. It had little room for competition for businesses. We are all aware of the politics of military contracting. Imagine spending that money on energy research/development. Its self-sustaining which answers your question regarding the returns on its cost. And there is no need for secrecy there so it opens the market to business competition, which is something Republicans are supposed to like, right? Let me end this here but it goes on.
Let me just say people need to forget which party they belong to and do their best to look out for themselves and embrace whats best for them!!

Why cant you do this yourself?
Go to the government web site and download the datasets. You go into excel and you do a sum on the GDP delta from the base year. You can easily see what GDP growth over the baseline is.
And you can compare to net spending increases.
Its easy to see that the GDP growth hasnt been just from increased spending.
And if you bothered to read Christina Romer’s report that Tapper had a post on a couple of weeks back you would see what multipliers she projects. They are in the range of 1:1.3-1:1.5
There is no reason to pretend that I am posting unverified numbers and asking you to take my word for it.

@ Question -
Quick answer, gotta run:
“In current form” implies “with all of the social goodies that will not create jobs (e.g., funding for STD prevention, contraceptives, super computer to predict impact of “global warming”, replacing sod on the Mall, etc.).” Generally speaking, these initiatives do not create jobs (outside of a very few). Some of these goodies have been removed, but there are a bunch more. Furthermore, there are A LOT of line items for which spending will not occur within the first 18 months. If the goal is for this package to truly jump-start the economy, it requires significant rework (away from “its current form”). Despite the optics and portrayal by Obama and Pelosi, the Republican input has not been seriously considered. This lack of input was reflected in the vote this evening. This was not purely a vote along party lines, the vote also reflects the ideology of the Republicans – and 11 Democrats – who felt they could not support this package “in its current form”.

I was supposed to have faith in George Bush, Cheney, Scooter Liddy, Karl Rove and others of their ilk . .. those other three are nothing compared to that lot.

The Republican Party is clearly taking all its cues from Rush Limbaught who is guiding them down the patch of irrelevance. Obama made a good faith effort to shape a bill with bipartisan input, and yet the Republicans are choosing to stick to business as usual us verus them positioning. The next election the remaining remnants of a bunch of disgruntled good ol’ boys needs to be finally crushed with a filibuster proof landslide. Two years cannot pass soon enough.

prefros
even the president dosnt want scooter libby or Cheney investigated now by his justice dept! So apparently he lied to you the only thing YOU were good for was to get him elected and that was a 1 in a million shot(you were lucky)

prefros
the president will not make far left choices all the time that you expect him to make and therefore all your work didnt produce anything for you

“the president will not make far left choices all the time that you expect him to make and therefore all your work didnt produce anything for you”
Sorry JG, it’s not making sense.

“The following is our President following through on his campaign promises and this is democracy in action.
1) Stop America torturing and honor the Geneva Conventions and started the process to close Guantanomo (serving our constitution, treaties, and rule of law)
2)Opened up the Freedom of Information policy to be what it was meant to be
3)Instigated a transparent government program
4)Instigated a stronger ethics program
5)Pay freeze for those who earn over $100K in his administration,
6)Involve both the Republicans and Democrats in the Economy Package
7)Opened up embyronic stem cell research
8)Released the “gag” on family planning and services programs overseas
9)Set up his open government website (we hope to see more)
10)Hired people on his cabinet and administration that have merit and that are Republicans, too. Kept Gates on
11)On day 2, he and his Sec. of State set a strong policy for foreign affairs with a strengthened Dept. of State where “Development, Diplomacy, and Defense” would be the integrated strategic tools
12) allow States the liberty to bring on stream improved auto emission standards
13) holds first formal television interview with an Arab television network
14) introduces major economic bill to Congress within days of his inauguration.
Yeah, we’ve just been lying around on our butts over here JG.

” the campaign is over and you are goign to have to get things done now!”
just lying around on our butts.

BertieW
ofcourse the President isnt going to have Pelosi anywhere near him… shes an embarrasment! also these Obamabots who still think there is a campaign have no sense of humor and they fail to see even the irony of Blago in IL and Caroline and Gov patterson in NY its goingt o be a comedy all the way through hopefully not of errors though

“lay off him, he has only been President x days” thing today. Hasnt this talking point been retired yet?”
You’re pretty brain washed yourself to think this is a talking point . . .. or that it should be retired. It’s only been 6 days . . . you reveal your own limitations to call that a talking point.
More importantly this President has made decisive steps in a very short length of time.
Disagreeing with virtually everything Obama just makes you look like a right wing toadie bertW, or a continual complainer.

So what happens in the Senate smart boys?
Lets hear it . ..

prefros
it will be voted on by the Senate then if its passed there will be a conference between the house and the senate to reconcile the two bills then they will vote on the conferece report… but ofcourse you knew that

Any discussion of how Obama got elected has to begin and end with the billion dollars he soaked up. And the hundreds of millions in free media coverage.
Most of his supporters didnt even know what he was running on.
You can add stuff in the middle but the beginning and the end is the billion.

bertW why are you going through these old talking points from the election?

prefros
youre the one making it election talking points this is just the beginning which is what your savior and our president said… dont expect everything given to you….parents of the younger generation who voted for the first time have donr then a disservice by doing just that!

prefros
its not up to me or you either for that matter Obama just told you it was youre campaign to get elected now they couldnt care less cause they have real problems to deal with

Thank you, Republicans! I am glad that they against the bill. Obama and the Democrats are loser.

Jan
it aint gonna happen that way dear! He wasntstop do things differently and everyone should cooperate with him but thats not the way washington works and without full disclosure of earmarks and the way the bills are passed and marked up hes not going to get too far… on the otherhand he freed up the ledbetter bill that was blocked by republicans so that he can have that legacy like Clinton passed Family&medical leave soon after he was innagurated… and y the way all the while Pres Obama has 90 percent old Clinton staffers… I rest my case!

I am so proud of the Republicans for sticking to their values.
The Obama-Pelosi-Reid pork bill doesn’t need any Republican votes.
But the last thing they want is to get full blame for the pending disaster.

Your lack of knowledge of how our government works is astounding! What do yo uthink the Democrats do when the Republicans control a body of the government? Do they lie down and say “yes sir, i’ll vote for anything you propose?”
Again, I say to everyone who seems to think that the republicans MUST just give in to what ever the Democrats slop into a bill, Listen to Colin Powell’s description of how partisanship is required in our form of government.
It is part of the checks & balances of how things work. That is why there was so much talk leading up to the election about the so-called “super-majority”. If the democrats had achieved it, then this pork filled bill would have been rams through in its original state.
Obama blew a real chance here to win over a lot people like me. He claimed he was going “change” they way Washington works. He just choked on his first real opportunity to prove that claim.
He should have called a press conference when he first recieved that bill and examined it. He should have used the “Bully Pulpit” of the Presidency to tell Pelosi to take it back and remove ALL the pork. He should have stood there and told the American people he had asked for a bill specifically for economic stimulus and the Speaker had handed him a bill he could not in good faith sign. If the Congress was going to give him that bill, he would VETO it!
Now, that would have shown leadership AND shown the people that he was serious about changing the way Washington works! That one action would have won over a lot of the skeptics!

Whose fault is it when votes go along party lines? First of all, I’m not convinced that bipartisanship is always a good thing.
Second, those who whine about the other side not being bipartisan are usually the ones who refused to accept any compromises, thus driving the other party to vote against the bill.
Compromise is generally a good thing, but not always. This “stimulus bill” is bogus. It’s all spending but very little stimulus. If you want to stimulate the economy, you can’t let the government decide how the money will be spent. You have to have faith in the market, i.e. the taxpayers, to choose how best to spend their money.

His policies yes, the Country NO…We live in a dem.oc.ra.cy..and descent is part of our system…Stop whining prefros and deal with differences of opinion..
Look toward our Congress and Senate members home State’s economic health as a guide to how well they understand our economic system…My home state, California, is guided by entitlement spending democrats, the house majority leader Pelosi is a California Democrat who has been pushing this so called stimulus, who have driven us into substantial debt to the point where in all likely hood Californian residents, will if ever, will not see their tax refunds for quite some time..And most are middle-class with kids who REALLY NEED that money…So you do not have to be a Right-wing or even a left-wing to be concerned nor disagree with Obama’s economic policey. This is not about Right-wing vs Left-wing SO OPEN YOUR EYES AND TRY TO DEAL WITH ECONOMIC LOGIC..THIS IS SPENDING NOT STIMULUS unless of course you can do without your Federal Tax refund in the future.
You want a look at the future, look at California…

What a sniveling headline…