Obama Administration Maintains Bush Position on ‘Extraordinary Rendition’ Lawsuit
EmailFrom Jake Tapper and Ariane de Vogue:
The Obama Administration today announced that it would keep the same position as the Bush Administration in the lawsuit Mohamed et al v Jeppesen Dataplan, Inc.
The case involves five men who claim to have been victims of extraordinary rendition — including current Guantanamo detainee Binyam Mohamed, another plaintiff in jail in Egypt, one in jail in Morocco, and two now free. They sued a San Jose Boeing subsidiary, Jeppesen Dataplan, accusing the flight-planning company of aiding the CIA in flying them to other countries and secret CIA camps where they were tortured.
A year ago the case was thrown out on the basis of national security, but today the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals heard the appeal, brought by the ACLU.
A source inside of the Ninth U.S. District Court tells ABC News that a representative of the Justice Department stood up to say that its position hasn’t changed, that new administration stands behind arguments that previous administration made, with no ambiguity at all. The DOJ lawyer said the entire subject matter remains a state secret.
This is not going to please civil libertarians and human rights activists who had hoped the Obama administration would allow the lawsuit to proceed.
– Jake Tapper and Ariane de Vogue
UPDATE: ABC News’ Jason Ryan reports that Justice Department spokesman Matt Miller said of the case, "It is the policy of this administration to invoke the state secrets privilege only when necessary and in the most appropriate cases, consistent with the United States Supreme Court’s decision in Reynolds that the privilege not ‘be lightly invoked.’"
Miller said that Attorney General Eric Holder has started a review of all state secret privilege matters. "The Attorney General has directed that senior Justice Department officials review all assertions of the State Secrets privilege to ensure that the privilege is being invoked only in legally appropriate situations. It is vital that we protect information that, if released, could jeopardize national security."
"The Justice Department will ensure the privilege is not invoked to hide from the American people information about their government’s actions that they have a right to know. This administration will be transparent and open, consistent with our national security obligations," Miller said.
UPDATE #2: The ACLU says the Obama administration reneged on civil liberties, offers "more of the same."
Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU said of the decision: “Eric Holder’s Justice Department stood up in court today and said that it would continue the Bush policy of invoking state secrets to hide the reprehensible history of torture, rendition and the most grievous human rights violations committed by the American government. This is not change. This is definitely more of the same. Candidate Obama ran on a platform that would reform the abuse of state secrets, but President Obama’s Justice Department has disappointingly reneged on that important civil liberties issue. If this is a harbinger of things to come, it will be a long and arduous road to give us back an America we can be proud of again.”
Ben Wizner, a staff attorney with the ACLU, who argued the case for the plaintiffs said, “We are shocked and deeply disappointed that the Justice Department has chosen to continue the Bush administration’s practice of dodging judicial scrutiny of extraordinary rendition and torture. This was an opportunity for the new administration to act on its condemnation of torture and rendition, but instead it has chosen to stay the course. Now we must hope that the court will assert its independence by rejecting the government’s false claims of state secrets and allowing the victims of torture and rendition their day in court.”
GOP Rap: 'Take America Back' 
Afghanistan Timeline Realistic?
You had more than an inkling of this didn’t you Jake?
Well what do you know? National security IS important. Who woulda thunk it?!
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
If “Extraordinary Rendition” is legal then it’s ok for everyone. How about Bush, Cheney and any other American Citizen. If it’s ok to illegally kidnap folks, then it’s ok to kidnap anyone.
Posted by: Sammy | February 9, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
What a disaster. This is the one area where Obama really can demonstrate change, rather than just talking about it. But he’s more concerned with covering up the crimes of the previous administration than doing the right thing.
Pathetic.
Posted by: Awktalk | February 9, 2009, 3:01 pm 3:01 pm
No American citizen has ever been in extraordinary rendition
( – well the American Taliban John Walker Lindh did get himself captured on the battlefield by Northern Alliance, boy I think he was glad he came out of that to America – though he’s a sneaky little coward complicit in an American’s murder in the Afghan prison uprising)
American citizens have gotten due process even in the Bush administration. Compare to Woodrow Wilson or the suspension of habeus to citizens by Lincoln
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 3:07 pm 3:07 pm
Glenn Greenwald did an excellent interview with ACLU’s Ben Wizner that goes into the background and context of this case. (I can’t seem to post the link, but Google Greenwald Wizner and it’s the top hit.)
Posted by: Crust | February 9, 2009, 3:15 pm 3:15 pm
National security is not as important as our freedoms and the Constitution. If we cannot keep America safe – using the laws of the land – maybe we need someone else running our intelligence offices. If you will trade your freedom for security, you will find yourself with neither. I think some dumb librul said that: Benjamin Franklin! If you are scared, please move somewhere else.
Posted by: Jimbo | February 9, 2009, 3:26 pm 3:26 pm
This is the second neocon happy dance on national security – check Wired Jan 22, David Kravets “The Obama administration fell in line with the Bush administration Thursday when it urged a federal judge to set aside a ruling in a closely watched spy case weighing whether a U.S. president may bypass Congress and establish a program of eavesdropping on Americans without warrants.
(Involves NSA and Treasury financial and communications investigation of Saudi charity)
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm
It is not a false dilemma to choose between safety and ideals – it is a real choice. You COULD leave your door unlocked and your toddlers on the streets until 10 pm but you DONT. You make a rational choice to limit your freedoms. We could give severance pay to all police except a few crossing guards but we DONT
“If you will trade your freedom for security, you will find yourself with neither. I think some dumb librul said that: Benjamin Franklin!”
Franklin said that about staying under colonial oppression not about rational national security policies to protect our people and establish a DIFFERENT due process for the terrorists.
” If you are scared, please move somewhere else” NO its you leftist that like to move. We AINT GOING. We and all rational people are going to work with the Obama administration to protect US, its already working!!
What is he going to do with the GITMO detainees though?
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
This is just proof that the U.S.A. has much to hide regarding its status as a war criminal state. Even Obama is agreeing to hide the filthy secrets of a rogue war criminal government. There is no way anyone knows if Americans have been disappeared or if Americans remain in torture cells in foreign countries. Barack has just affirmed that if that were the case the secret will remain a secret, even at the cost of justice. Barack has just decided to become complicit in those war crimes, specifically the illegal “extraordinary rendition” of human beings to nations which are guaranteed to torture them and which will hold them forever secretly if the U.S. tells them to. Barack Obama is now ALSO a war criminal. He has made his decision to protect — not American secrets — American war criminals, and to throw the lives of those extradited and tortured away. Not everyone we have done this to is even a criminal, let alone a terrorist. There are many, many innocent people in torture cells in several nations, put there by the U.S. You cannot assume that they are all guilty just because that would be the most convenient perfection. It’s simply not the truth and that has been proven by the release of many innocent people without any charges after years of detention and torture. The U.S.A., with a world full of enemies over the centuries, never had to stoop so low as to torture and “disappear” anyone. Now we are stuck with a third-rate nation run by people who condone disappearing anyone they want, anywhere in the world that they want, including the U.S. according The Wuss’s rules which still exist, for torture and indefinite detention without charges. This is not the U.S.A. This has nothing to do with terrorism. This instead has become a nation of horror.
Posted by: Allan | February 9, 2009, 3:34 pm 3:34 pm
So the same old lies start from Mr. Change himself. Show a little courage and remember Jim Hightower’s remark: the only things in the middle of the road are two yellow lines and a dead armadillo
Posted by: virginia cynic | February 9, 2009, 3:37 pm 3:37 pm
So… who’d he meet with?
Full press pool report:
Pool report #5
November 10, 2008
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport
President Bush escorted President-elect Obama out of the Oval Office and walked him to down to the motorcade waiting on the south driveway.
(Josh Bolten separately escorted John Podesta to a car much further back in the motorcade.)
As they walked down the path, the president could be seen pointing things out to his soon-to-be successor.
They did not linger at the car and the motorcade took off at 3:45 p.m.
Michelle Obama left before her husband for her own separate schedule in Washington for the remainder of the day and will be traveling separately back to Chicago later tonight.
We’re not being told what she will be doing in her extra time here, so we leave it to your imagination and reportorial instincts.
The motorcade encountered crowds of people gathered outside the White House as it made its way off campus and headed toward Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
After arriving, President-elect Obama went into a previously unannounced “private” meeting at the airport’s Fire Station 301.
We’re not being told who it’s with but it will last about an hour. Podesta was not in the meeting, or at least did not stay around in the meeting,
because he was spotted walking the other direction down the tarmac a few minutes after we arrived.
O Force One Frequent Flier Bonus Points to the first blogger to post 10 guesses about the identity of today’s future cabinet secretary.
We’re holding on the plane.
Posted by: Abraham Ben Judea | February 9, 2009, 3:38 pm 3:38 pm
sammy–”If “Extraordinary Rendition” is legal then it’s ok for everyone. How about Bush, Cheney and any other American Citizen. If it’s ok to illegally kidnap folks, then it’s ok to kidnap anyone.” — Do you even know what you are talking about?? Rendition has nothing to do with American detention and has nothing to do with American citizens… Its the process of returning NON citizens to their home country (or to other countries in which they are wanted) to stand trial and be processed under the legal systems inplace in their own country..
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 3:38 pm 3:38 pm
Will Sen Leahy call for a Truth and Reconciliation commission for this administration as well? The current administration has said that ‘extraordinary interrogation’ techniques will not occur in the U.S.. Does that mean the CIA will conduct these activities off our soil? And notice how the administration has taken the same procedures conducted under Bush and simply changed the names so they seem more innocuous? This is not a simple issue but let’s put aside the double standards about how the issue is regarded now vs over the past 8 yrs.
Posted by: bct | February 9, 2009, 3:41 pm 3:41 pm
I’m very disappointed that the Obama administration chose to link itself with the war criminals of the Bush administration. One can only hope that once Eric Holder gets up to speed in the Justice Dept. that he truly becomes an independent attorney general who will actually follow the law by prosecuting the bush administration war criminals. Unfortunately his decision today to follow in the footsteps of the Bush administration is not a very good sign.
Posted by: pmorlan | February 9, 2009, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm
Not sure I’d put it like that, hyena, but
Obama was elected Commander in Chief, not Lawyer in Chief
- his responsibilities are for our national security.
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 3:54 pm 3:54 pm
HA HA HA…Obama fubs it up again
Posted by: 8mile | February 9, 2009, 3:56 pm 3:56 pm
The new DOJ has been there, what, a week?
The new staff likely hasn’t even moved into offices yet.
This is a holding pattern.
Posted by: MasonMcD | February 9, 2009, 4:04 pm 4:04 pm
Interesting that ABC site did not report on the census in 2010 being taken from the Commerce Department and given to …TADA! Emanual!!! But why the surprise he did this? The minute he picked this refugee from Clinton’s administration anyone paying attention would have realized Obama was selling a bill of goods. New Politics…right.
Come on ABC report the news, not just the news you like, but all the news, espcially if it holds the fallout that this one could, and with Emanual behind it, there will be fallout. Crooked politics at it’s best. Obama strikes again.
Posted by: lmc | February 9, 2009, 4:09 pm 4:09 pm
waaaaahhhhhh
Posted by: Jazz | February 9, 2009, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm
More “change you can deceive in”.
Posted by: ALEX H | February 9, 2009, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm
@pmorlin; Before you get all Red in the Face wanting to blame ONLY Bush.
Funny, I did a little research. Rendition been around since the early ’80s and guess what? Looks as if PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON sign one for the CIA in 1995. Per Wiki: “The CIA was granted permission to use rendition in a presidential directive signed by US President William Clinton in 1995″ Here is the link to the Document signed by Mr. Clinton.
…. So, before you start locking up people and prosecuting them.. you may have to go back a ways. :)
Posted by: ajax | February 9, 2009, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm
War criminals! Impeach! Blah blah blah.
Posted by: tony | February 9, 2009, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm
Come on folks .. Obama has only been POTUS for a few weeks .. give him a few months and you will all wish you had voted for Ralph Nader.
Posted by: Neo | February 9, 2009, 4:19 pm 4:19 pm
pmorlan..”prosecuting the bush administration war criminals.”— give it a rest.. Name one “War Crime committed? If you can’t then get off your soapbox..
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:23 pm 4:23 pm
If the Obama administration continues the Bush administration’s misuse of the “state secrets” privilege it will be aiding and abetting torture. Responsible national security and human rights experts who have looked into this case indicate that the only reason Bush officials invoked this once-rare privilege was to avoid political embarrassment and possible future prosecutions against top Bush officials who instituted torture as a U.S. policy.
The Obama administration is going in the wrong direction if it does not take effective measures to reverse and repudiate the Bush torture policies. It’s not good enough for a president to promise not to use torture. Future officials need to have the example of sucessfully prosecuted Bush officials as a deterrent to any futyre plans to use torture.
Posted by: Nick Jackson | February 9, 2009, 4:24 pm 4:24 pm
The existence of so-called “extraordinary rendition” was denied for the longest time by the war criminals in The Wuss’s bloody international money laundering operation.
“Extraordinary rendition” is the practice of moving prisoners picked up anywhere in the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan, to any other location for the purpose of subjecting them to “enhanced interrogation techniques” in order to extract information helpful to the international coalition of nations which is fighting The War Against Terror (T.W.A.T.) everywhere in the world, including territorial U.S.A.
Forced by multiple sources in several nations, and by reporters’ revelations, they finally admitted it as much as they would admit any of their war crimes.
They said the executive had the right to authorize this nation to do evil things during a time of war, especially T.W.A.T.
There was and is a lot of political fighting around the world in several nations about allowing the U.S. to even fly over certain countries when the country knew those particular CIA planes were being used to ferry these types of prisoners to torture states.
We were further soothed into accepting these things by descriptions and assurances about how the torture would only be done due to necessities (in real life, and sold through “24″ for example) and there are ongoing discussions about the varying degrees of some of the “enhanced interrogation techniques” — torture — which, btw, were used in ALL of the many places these prisoners were shuttled to.
These CIA rendition flights were never used to “return” a prisoner to their mother country to face trial. Normal military flights do that sort of thing easily. These were the flights with the people with the bags over their heads and strapped in a seated position on the floor of the plane (drugs were often used to ensure compliance) in essentially an isolation suit for as long as the flight to wherever might take. Surely you’ve seen at least one photo online of the interior of such a plane?
This stuff is real, this is not some movie, those are real people under those hoods, and it is a fact that many of them are there for no reason except bad luck.
This is an ongoing international war crime and its perpetrators and practitioners must be stopped and arrested and charged with international crimes against humanity. It is as simple as that.
Posted by: Allan | February 9, 2009, 4:25 pm 4:25 pm
Well said ajax… rendition has been around in various administrations for decades… as far as “illegal” wire taps are concerned… nothing illegal about what the government was doing and nothing new about it either.. It seems we are living in yet another decade of clueless hippy flower children.. the clothes and haircuts have changed, but not the ignorance…
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:26 pm 4:26 pm
Hillary Rodham Clinton is his choice for foreign policy.These are the same Clintons that got into bed with George Walker Bush so she could have chance in 08–NO GORE!I live in Torrance,California.I have some insight into how Bill and Hillary Clinton sold out to the Chinese military and China’s intelligence through Johnny Chung.The Clintons are scum.So why should we expect any difference from this administaration?What BOTH parties need desperately is something much worse than Watergate to bring down the hypocrisy that we live in. America is in denial as to just how corrupt and hypocritical it’s system of governance is.Continue degrading people and denying them acces to justice while you browbeat the rest of the world about human rights and rule of law.That will certainly get you a long way in terms of credibility.
We NEED another Watergate!
Ther are people willing to risk everything to bring about another Watergate.
Posted by: Luis Rodriguez | February 9, 2009, 4:27 pm 4:27 pm
The ACLU filed for an appeal in the case quite some time ago…..Eric Holder was barely confirmed a week ago….Obama sworn in 3 weeks ago. Change doesn’t happen overnight especially when there’s so much change necessary in hundreds of areas. Please folks, give it a rest already. We gave your guys 8 years and they couldn’t get it right.
Posted by: wanamakerbeautiful | February 9, 2009, 4:28 pm 4:28 pm
Meet the new boss, SAME as the old boss. “Hope=Change=Torture???” Huh, that sure seems pretty odd to me. How much more does O’bomba have to do before he is held accountable for his actions. I guess one day longer than his term in office, just like the last bum! Denail is NOT just a river in Egypt. Wake Up, you have been decieved and are paying the cost of your deception. Enjoy paying for the handouts/bailouts, and theft by force sponsored by your “loving” Big Brother Government!!! Remember, you asked for it!
Posted by: hmn... | February 9, 2009, 4:34 pm 4:34 pm
Once again the ACLU champions the cause of terrorism and jihad. It’s pretty much become a concrete rule, whichever side the ACLU is on.. the other side is right.
Posted by: howwouldiknow | February 9, 2009, 4:34 pm 4:34 pm
allen..”This is an ongoing international war crime and its perpetrators and practitioners must be stopped and arrested and charged with international crimes against humanity. It is as simple as that.” — Okay allen… Not that I agree with you, but how about this, I’ll agree that Bush needs to be prosecuted for War Crimes in this matter if you will agree that Carter, Clinton and Obama need to stand trial right beside him.. Let me ask you this… How many POW camps have ever been set up on our shores? Answer -(post civil war)we set up “internmetn camps” for Japanese Americans during WW2 (that would have been mostly under Truman’s watch.. since that time.. None…It has never been our process to hold or interogate prisoners of war here… however, it has been our process to use rendition since Korea..we have done what is necessary to protect this country numerous times including Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus during the civil war… grow up.. its a big bad world out there and those who don’t have the stomach to do WHAT IS NECESSARY to protect their own people.. get slaughtered…
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:35 pm 4:35 pm
funny that half (or more) of the things that obama slammed the bush administration for he’s now supporting and/or using. any chance that maybe he’ll use a few seconds of one of his pressers to offer even a slight apology to bush for essentially saying his administration was like the gestapo? i won’t hold my breath.
Posted by: davidfrat21 | February 9, 2009, 4:36 pm 4:36 pm
i also forgot to ask. obama and the dems have been calling for the closing of gitmo for over 2 years now. one of obama’s first acts was to order its closure…but now the administration is questioning what to do with all the detainees. it appears that obama and the dems were not unlike bush and his stupid “mission accomplished” banner. sure, we crushed hussein’s troops, but had no idea what to do once they were gone…and obama was clearly sure that he wanted gitmo closed, but he surely didn’t know what the plan was for what to do when it closes. just another politician my friends…just another politician.
Posted by: davidfrat21 | February 9, 2009, 4:39 pm 4:39 pm
luis..Watergate? Watergate was about spying on political opponents.. What does that have to do with anything? Or are you saying we need the media to out the big bad government?? heres a newsflash.. the media are the one’s who made up Obama’s Armor.. no one in todays media has the kajones to dare go against the grain and actaully be an “investigative” reporter..
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:40 pm 4:40 pm
funny that half (or more) of the things that obama slammed the bush administration for he’s now supporting and/or using. any chance that maybe he’ll use a few seconds of one of his pressers to offer even a slight apology to bush for essentially saying his administration was like the gestapo? i won’t hold my breath.
Posted by: davidfrat21
******************************************
Why would he apologize to the bush gestapo?
Posted by: spacerook1 | February 9, 2009, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
OFCOL! Give him a bit of time to review the cases! Something may well change…
Posted by: Jordan | February 9, 2009, 4:48 pm 4:48 pm
spacerook1 — well, generally speaking, when you call someone gestapo and then institute many of the same programs as they did, it merits and apology TO SOMEONE>>>
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:49 pm 4:49 pm
I guess Obama and the rest of the libs are beginning to see how “right” Bush was in his treatment of “terrorists”.
Posted by: JP | February 9, 2009, 4:49 pm 4:49 pm
Hummm just rechecking the posts to see if pmorlan had listed any “war crimes” — he hasn’t and neither has anyone else for that matter.. nor has Allan or anyone on here referenced any specifics on “the tortures’ committed by this administration.. but that doesn’t suprise me…
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
jordan–! Give him a bit of time to review the cases! Something may well change…” what ?? review the cases??
Posted by: arkie vet | February 9, 2009, 4:55 pm 4:55 pm
Do you people who voted for Obama feel foolish yet?
Posted by: brian | February 9, 2009, 4:57 pm 4:57 pm
Deadly drone strikes in Pakistan. The upcoming Afghanistan surge. Talk of pre-emptive strikes to halt Iran’s nuclear weapon ambitions. And now support for Bush’s rendition laws.
But McCain was Bush 3. LOL.
Posted by: Chuck | February 9, 2009, 4:58 pm 4:58 pm
To wait to review the cases, that would have been a CONTINUANCE – DOJ could have requested or Obama COULD HAVE ORDERED as he has done with Gitmo hearings.
The DOJ spokesman says above ” (The AG directed a) review all assertions of the State Secrets privilege to ensure that the privilege is being invoked only in legally appropriate situations. It is vital that we protect information (for) national security”
They reviewed, they invoked national security. NEXT!!
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 5:01 pm 5:01 pm
guess Obama and the rest of the libs are beginning to see how “right” Bush was in his treatment of “terrorists”.
****************************************
I do not think he thinks Bush was right, but the case may involve secrets that shopuld not be released.
Posted by: Thinking | February 9, 2009, 5:04 pm 5:04 pm
OMG!!People, Please give the man a chance. We have not had the best choice of presidents to chose from. Just give the man a chance. How can a country mend the problems that they are faced with when there is no much negative thoughts,words and actions against the man who is leading our country. It is not an easy job. Patience is the virtue. We need to have more of it.
Posted by: Deborah | February 9, 2009, 5:13 pm 5:13 pm
“President Obama, occasionally slightly better than President Bush!”
Posted by: ed | February 9, 2009, 5:21 pm 5:21 pm
“I do not think he thinks Bush was right, but the case may involve secrets that shopuld (sic) not be released.”
———————
The secrets involved that are compromised in this CIVIL case against a 3rd party:
a) Methods, procedures, locations and diplomatic alliances to procure and execute rendition
b) The evidence obtained against detainee Mohamed both in Gitmo and abroad (which should be determined only within the military tribunal or other trial planned for him)
As noted Obama’s DOJ also agreed with Bush on keeping methods and evidence obtained by warrantless wiretapping and financial sweep secret against a Saudi charity.
So secrets in extraordinary rendition, Gitmo interrogation and warrantless wiretapping should be kept – that’s significant agreement with Bush concept of prosecuting the war on terror whether or not covered by Patriot Act and FISA
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 5:29 pm 5:29 pm
President Obama plays what I call “the long game.” His critics, and even many supporters, keep getting suckered into thinking–and saying–that he doesn’t know what he is doing. Next thing they know–BOOM–he delivers. The long game that has made Obama President includes humility, patience, turning the other cheek, taking people at their word no matter how much they disappoint, settling for half a loaf now in order to prepare the oven for more later…all the kinds of civil, humane and, yes, Christian behaviors we say we want in our leaders but don’t really expect them to do.
We need to concede that he’s smarter and more strategic than most of us. It’s a long game that we probably aren’t capable of playing ourselves because we’re not the first black and white, Hawaiian, Indonesian, poor, rich, Chicago, Harvard President. And it’s going to work for him.
Posted by: W Action | February 9, 2009, 5:30 pm 5:30 pm
The only secret in these cases is the ‘secret’ that the US government broke the law. There is no reason in the world for Obama to continue to protect Bush and his minions here, except for his continual deference to ‘bipartisanship’. Whenever I hear that word now, I cringe, because I know that what it means is lack of accountability.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 5:31 pm 5:31 pm
bush43 was repugnant because of the lies. Lies that painted all of us accomplices. President Obama risks becoming the same thing if he chooses to try to sweep it under the rug & especially if he chooses to continue the wrongs.
I worked for Obama & I will work against him if he shows himself to not be worthy.
Posted by: kindness | February 9, 2009, 5:32 pm 5:32 pm
robert b,
I don’t think the word ‘evidence’ means what you think it does.
Information obtained through illegal rendition, illegal torture and illegal wiretapping is not ‘evidence’ in the real meaning of the word.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm
you know how politicians are. you bought their lies. so shut up and bear with it. Next election, remember to vote with you r head, not with your bile.
Posted by: cygon | February 9, 2009, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm
Ahh, nice to hear from Obama “enablers” who still drink the Kool-Aid.
Folks, insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results.
Until you start voting for Greens, Socialists, or whatever other choice you have besides the D, change ain’t gonna happen.
It’s that simple.
Posted by: SocraticGadfly | February 9, 2009, 5:40 pm 5:40 pm
If torture is needed to get the information we need to protect our country against those who would harm it, then so be it. You cuddlers would give your freedom up as well as your children’s…there is no excuse for that!
Posted by: harley | February 9, 2009, 5:42 pm 5:42 pm
As a citizen of US that was built on personal freedoms and due process, through the rule of law, I reject (torture and rendition). No matter who it is – Bush Or Obama, If proven guilty they should face the judicial system and the jail time that comes with it.
Posted by: KevinA | February 9, 2009, 5:45 pm 5:45 pm
flash – remains to be seen how such evidence plays out. I concur that info obtained under shall we say duress must be corroborated by other evidence to be useful. Actually trial and conviction is secondary to the prevention of actions and the fracturing of the Al Qaeda leadership and operational cells and so field verification by counterterrorist operation, sigint or humint may or may not see the courtroom.
But I digress…The point in this civil case was to WITHHOLD evidence and methods that our military and national security agencies USES either in intelligence work and/or tribunal
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 5:45 pm 5:45 pm
Can we put FDR, Woodrow Wilson, and Lincoln on the same list (posthumously) for the “truth commission”??
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 5:47 pm 5:47 pm
Actually, Arkie…..”Rendition” has everything to do with American Citizens. If Americans can kidnap other countries’ citizens then other countries can kidnap our citizens. No reason Iran can’t engage in “Extraordinary Rendition.”
Posted by: Sammy | February 9, 2009, 5:48 pm 5:48 pm
When the United States tortures, the people who want to undermine our democracy have won. We are the same as the terrorists when we torture. They don’t need to conquer us; we are becoming them. If you want to fight terrorists, uphold the freedoms we have in our constitution.
Posted by: jane | February 9, 2009, 5:49 pm 5:49 pm
The suit is against a privite GPS software and mapping company.
What did they do beyond make a map and sell GPS software. Someone had to install the software in a GPS.Oh and what about the GPS manufacturing company they also had a part in this.and and and
Posted by: Dan | February 9, 2009, 5:49 pm 5:49 pm
Well Sammy I guess any nation has the sovereign right if not rational reasons for kidnapping officials? However of course it would be an act of war
But I fail to see what that has to do with extraordinary rendition. That would be Iran capturing say Rummy but sending him to India? Or Obama and sending him to Kenya? How would that further Iran’s purpose of prosecution – no sense of logic can be found in your analogy.
NEXT
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 5:52 pm 5:52 pm
I really don’t think we can trust the press, and what is false and what is truth at this point. They news media blurred the lines of reality for too long over the last 8 years. It’s all lies in my eyes and journalist have become a bunch of nancies to the truth.
Posted by: Joe the Schlepper | February 9, 2009, 6:05 pm 6:05 pm
The writing was on the wall when Obama said he never knew Rev Wright gave radical sermons.
Obama would say anything to get elected.
The man has no integrity.
Posted by: bailey | February 9, 2009, 6:06 pm 6:06 pm
It’s amazing to see such a lack of personal integrity and character flaunted by so-called Americans. If you believe in torture, you’re not really American.
Posted by: Steve Wimer | February 9, 2009, 6:14 pm 6:14 pm
jane: “When the United States tortures, the people who want to undermine our democracy have won.”
Say a major US city is about to be attacked with a biological weapon resulting in the death of one million people, including your own family, but we don’t know where the weapon is located. Say we have a terrorist in custody who knows the location of the weapon. Say only torture of this one individual has a good chance of revealing that information in time for us to destroy the weapon.
Are you so morally smug to take an anti-torture stance to impress a terrorist about America’s “love of freedom” while one million lives hang in the balance? Are the lives of so many Americans and those of your own family worth so little to you?
Posted by: Justin | February 9, 2009, 6:23 pm 6:23 pm
Come on Obama supporters be honest.
You had to know this guy was a fake a long time ago.
Posted by: riley | February 9, 2009, 6:23 pm 6:23 pm
i bet next Obamaa will tell y’all to back off, cause at the moment it is “IT”S THE ECONOMY STUPID~!!!
Posted by: joeanimal | February 9, 2009, 6:28 pm 6:28 pm
Our patriotism is discounted by our opinion on taxes and spending.
Our citizenship disinherited because want to preserve our land in safety.
Yet foreign terrorists have rights not to be made painfully aware of their wrongdoing…….when spies and saboteurs have NEVER been accorded the common privileges of prisoners, whether criminal or POW.
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm
The ACLU representative sounds like a drooling idiot. This is ONE CASE. There is no trend. It’s a SINGLE CASE. And I’m guessing the reason they’re backing the Bush position is because they have no other choice. Sometimes there’s no going back. But this is ONE CASE. The ACLU is doing their job, but they need to get a grip.
Posted by: Mark F | February 9, 2009, 6:32 pm 6:32 pm
Rendition sucks but getting blown to hell while I walk down the street sucks even more so more power to them for picking up these losers. Are we supposed to give these jihadist the same rights we have as citizens? Hey a man can beleive what he wants but when he puts things in action that are against the laws of the land then you get whats coming to you. Even after getting released these guys go right back into terrorism. I say if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime. Dugh!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Growup the lot of you LOL | February 9, 2009, 6:33 pm 6:33 pm
Hypocrite progressives who supported Obama and don’t take him to task on this and expanding Bush’s faith based initiative.
Posted by: Jean | February 9, 2009, 6:35 pm 6:35 pm
It’s completely pointless to post a comment on this blog because the mods don’t believe in free speech. My post was just censored. ABC stinks, but worse than that, they don’t believe in the free exchange of ideas.
Posted by: Mark F | February 9, 2009, 6:47 pm 6:47 pm
Go to the Guardian (UK) website if you want some real news on this case. Apparently, we can’t handle the truth here in the US>
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 6:49 pm 6:49 pm
Check out the dailmail online article, “Food writer’s online guide to building an H-bomb…the ‘evidence’ that put this man in Guantanamo”
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 6:50 pm 6:50 pm
ask McCain how he and his buddies were handled when he was a prisoner of war.
Obama is doing a fine job leave him alone.
Posted by: gus | February 9, 2009, 6:51 pm 6:51 pm
To everybody that opposes Obama’s stand. Do you really want to impress people that have sworn to destroy your families? Will you rather feed steak to people determined to bomb and behead you? will you wake up because it has not affected your family does not mean it is not real. I support the American govt to extract information from our enemies what ever way they determine as effective. I rather protect the lives of Americans (this are who we owe first
Posted by: omoniger | February 9, 2009, 6:52 pm 6:52 pm
The point is not whether this is a good idea or a bad idea; the point is WHY did Obama — during the campaign — promise to do something he had NO intention of doing?
It’s the string of broken Obama pledges and promises that is the issue here.
Posted by: Dream | February 9, 2009, 6:54 pm 6:54 pm
omoniger,
If we had a free press in the US, you would understand how embarrassingly ridiculous your position is. You assume too much.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 6:54 pm 6:54 pm
Hypocrite progressives who supported Obama and don’t take him to task on this and expanding Bush’s faith based initiative.
***************************************************
Jean, I see you clearly side with the ACLU on this, even though this controversy is a little over 24 hours in the reporting. But that’s fine, if you’re genuine about supporting the ACLU case.
I don’t think Rick Warren’s appearance at the invocation indicates that Obama is going to expand Bush’s faith based initiative. Which ones specifically are you afraid he’s going to expand? I’ve obviously missed something.
Posted by: kathy | February 9, 2009, 6:55 pm 6:55 pm
speaking of national security, we would be more secure if we didn’t have the antiamerican civil liberties union trying to dismantle everything that anyone does right. they are the real antiamericans!
Posted by: Rick | February 9, 2009, 7:01 pm 7:01 pm
Flash you and your friends are nonsensical to believe Benyam and his lawyers stories. He visited a website where there was a satire on H bomb construction and that is the sole reason.
Could it be that one of a thousand questions came from tracking his web “cookies”. If they arrested me, they might find interesting stuff mainly cause I link to what you conspiracists give out – for laughs.
But that has nothing to do with being named by other terrorists and what the heck do you know what other files and communications they found.
Just why and how did KSM and others fink on Benyam Mohamed. Lets see, they had planned ahead of time — if we’re ever captured and tortured, we’ll name a druggie for dirty bomb plots. Okay Khalid you don’t know him but he’s a dope named Benyam Mohamed”
Doesn’t pass the sniff test, frankly.
Guilty, sorry about the cuts man (the doctor says he can still propagate – if he ever sees a woman again!!!), but guilty.
Dying of hunger strike is the latest. Wouldn’t that just be so ironic and deprive us ALL of seeing him have his day in court.
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 7:09 pm 7:09 pm
robert,
“they want me to testify in court as they have no witnesses and they have told me they are preparing me and others for their use and giving us information on the accused”
In other words, they have no evidence in the other cases, they kidnapped a London Janitor in Pakistan and tried to use him to manufacture evidence.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:12 pm 7:12 pm
“They’ll come in wearing masks and beat you up. They’ll beat you with sticks. They’ll rape you first, then they?ll take a glass bottle, they break the top off and make you sit on it.”
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:13 pm 7:13 pm
They used KSM to fink on no-name janitor and janitor is to fink on who? Karzai? Osama?
(Sarcasm on)
So we are making it up as we go along because of course we planned 9-11 so of course we have to cover our tracks by “manufacturing evidence”.
Of course there is no real Al Qaeda just a bunch of fools who are willing to die to fulfill – uhh CIA goals.
(Sarcasm off)
Nothing you said passes a sniff test of motives, evidence, history or cause and effect. Logic is a learned art, I guess
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 7:19 pm 7:19 pm
The US military has dropped all charges against Mohamed.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:21 pm 7:21 pm
THE ACLU, remember that movie The President. A liberal love fest written by the producer of the West Wing. “The question is why don’t you carry an ACLU card, an organization soley committed to defending the Constitution”.
The answer is: I stopped supporting them when they defended gay Boy scout leaders and members of NAMBLA. Why should we be surprised when they turn on Obama and accuse him of anything 1 month into his presidency. They only care about raising attention for themselves and their AMerica hating phychophants.
Posted by: t | February 9, 2009, 7:22 pm 7:22 pm
I’m not sure how the ACLU can say “more of the same” with a straight face here, when Holder’s been AG for less than two weeks and announced that all of these “state secrets” would be reviewed and assessed. Given that this assessment will involve a set of criteria they are in the process of developing, should we be surprised that this soon into the process they defer to precedent? If, in a year, we see Bushian standards consistently being applied, then come talk. But save the “meet the new boss, same as the old boss” rhetoric for later.
Posted by: Craig P | February 9, 2009, 7:24 pm 7:24 pm
sorry for all the misspelled words in previous post. too much of a hurry.
the movie was “The American President” with Michael (plastic surgery face) Douglas.
Posted by: t | February 9, 2009, 7:25 pm 7:25 pm
For those of you who think it’s just fine to allow politicians to break the law and just spirit people away to be tortured, go live in Egypt. What you want is a security state, not a democracy. Democracy assumes that citizens are robust adults not children that demand protection, because they’re so paranoid that they can’t handle freedom. What you want is tyranny, where you obey the state and get protection in exchange, where you don’t want government to be accountable to the people but break laws in secret and get away with it. Oh, and another place you’d like is the former Soviet Union.
Posted by: Deborah | February 9, 2009, 7:28 pm 7:28 pm
This case should have been dismissed as soon as it was filed, and the ACLU should be sued for treason. Every case that the ACLU takes is to destroy the USA. They tear down family values and structure,destroy the Constitution and want to give terrorists free rein in this country.It’s time these kooks who are working to destroy this country be stopped.
Posted by: kenjo | February 9, 2009, 7:29 pm 7:29 pm
The fact that Obama could change US policy and remove Bush’s threat against England in the case, almost led to the judges releasing the evidence.
However, the British Foreign Minister testified that it wouldn’t make any difference if Obama was President, and therefore, the evidence was held.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:31 pm 7:31 pm
kenjo, you can’t defend America by destroying everything it is supposed to stand for. That isn’t defending America.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:32 pm 7:32 pm
The position, he claimed, had not changed because all governments accepted that any information shared by a friendly intelligence service, in this case the CIA, was ‘owned’ by it, and could never be published in another country – even when, as the judges stated, this information was not sensitive intelligence but admissions about the treatment of a detainee.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:34 pm 7:34 pm
Dying of hunger strike is the latest. Wouldn’t that just be so ironic and deprive us ALL of seeing him have his day in court.
*****************************************
Getting beat up with your head and other parts kicked in when you refuse the nose tubing down your throat is accelerating their dying process. Even the Bush appointed judges sickened by that and other incidents are coming forward and speaking out.
Robert, your jingoistic crap and rage comes from a really dark place. I really don’t like reading it because of that and it reflecting poorly on the good people and friends I’ve known in the military.
Posted by: kathy | February 9, 2009, 7:35 pm 7:35 pm
So lets recap the facts:
The US government makes no claim that Mohamed is a terrorist, or involved with terrorism, or knows anyone who is.
None of the evidence in question involves matters of intelligence sources or methods, or anything having to do with terrorism, according to the judges.
The US is claiming that releasing the evidence that Mohamed was tortured would be releasing state secrets.
Draw your own conclusions.
Posted by: Flash Override | February 9, 2009, 7:42 pm 7:42 pm
Oh so prevention of suicide is now a war crime too.
He has NO right as a prisoner to commit suicide and should be prevented by whatever means from doing so.
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 7:43 pm 7:43 pm
The ACLU does a good job of defending civil liberties and the US Constitution upon which those liberties are based. It does not matter if it is NAMBLA or any other organization or individual. To say that the ACLU is bad because they defended NAMBLA is to say that only the civil liberties you recognize should be defended. I have no idea about the underlying facts in the NAMBLA representation. As long as a civil right was being perceived to be violated, it is perfectly OK for the ACLU to take that on. It is all our rights that they protect.
And I agree, sanctioning torture is wrong. The ends don’t justify the means, despite the example above about a city about to be nuked.
Obama has already reversed much of what the Bush admin was doing. Maybe there really are national secrets that need to be protected under the privilege?
Posted by: Joe | February 9, 2009, 7:54 pm 7:54 pm
Obama is now a BushCo war criminal. A proud day for all America. What a sick society you have become.
Posted by: frozennorthobserver | February 9, 2009, 7:54 pm 7:54 pm
The secrets involved that are compromised in this CIVIL case against a 3rd party:
a) Methods, procedures to procure and execute rendition
b) Elements of the case against detainee Mohamed (which should only be offered for evidence within the military tribunal or other trial )
Yeah those are secrets and how our national security agencies and military have prosecuted the war on terror (that the prosecution that’s priority not trials, sorry lawyers)
And Obama was elected Commander in Chief not Lawyer in Chief.
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 8:10 pm 8:10 pm
So does this mean the DOJ will not even acknowledged if these practices exist?
Posted by: Ryan C | February 9, 2009, 8:14 pm 8:14 pm
He has NO right as a prisoner to commit suicide and should be prevented by whatever means from doing so.
*********************************************
The hunger strike was from 2005, not currently or recently, unless you’re stuck in the past or fabrication. You depicted Benyam Mohamed as being presently in a hunger strikes in one of your earlier postings. I don’t think it’s the same one where you claimed he could still procreate after genital mutilation. Again, you cast the military in a bad light with all your bravado and claims, but of course, I don’t have to read obfuscation coming from a tormented soul. Goodnight.
Posted by: kathy | February 9, 2009, 8:23 pm 8:23 pm
The Guardian thinks he is close to death by new hunger strike in January – to impress Obama I guess “Frantic preparations are being made to bring a British resident held at Guantánamo Bay back to the UK this week after it emerged last night that he was “close to death”.
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 8:31 pm 8:31 pm
The Guardian didn’t day anything about frantic preparations to bring him back. Someone from Britain, Milibank, is trying to get his extradition back to England. The one sounding the concern strongly is his lawyer, a lieutenant in the army, who says he’s going to come back in a coffin. Four years of torture and intermittent hunger strikes will do that to a thirty year old man. I’m not arguing with you whether he deserves it or not, or if it’s been necessary to security. You can discuss the moral and security relativity of it with someone else.
Posted by: kathy | February 9, 2009, 9:03 pm 9:03 pm
mccain survived 7 years and still tickin
Posted by: robert b | February 9, 2009, 9:08 pm 9:08 pm
Perhaps the Obama administration is following the Bush administration policy because it’s simply the right decision…
Posted by: mike | February 9, 2009, 9:21 pm 9:21 pm
Oddly, there was CIA funding and overt influence concerning the renditions.
Mohamed’s case was hopefully not typical.
Picked up at an airport, tortured in 2 countries, one being Morroco prior to transfer to Gitmo. He recieved beatings, electro-shock and some razor work on his torso and genitalia.
After arriving at Gitmo he was kept naked for awhile, waterboarded and sleep deprived for months on end with the use of hip-hop/gangsta rap being pumped thru non-removeable headphones.
He would confess to anything so would you.
The rendition program makes us and a number of allies culpable and complicit to war crimes. the allies were given local intell, funding, hi-teck toys and weaponry to provide information extracted from detainee’s selected and provided by us. The interrogating nation assumes we have provided a real terrorist and will provide us with the confessions they believe we want.
Posted by: john struthers | February 9, 2009, 9:51 pm 9:51 pm
Ya all take yourself way too seriously.
Obama is no different than Bush or Clinton. The Pollyanna Inauguration is over and the Kumbaya singing is subsiding. And yes, we are still going to die someday. Can you believe it? We are all no different than any other organism in this vast eco system. Deal with it.
Posted by: Eric | February 9, 2009, 10:03 pm 10:03 pm
Ignorance is bliss…….
Bush policy? The CIA has been torturing since its inception. The only reason we know now days, they don’t kill the suspects when finished with them. Even if Obama tells them to stop, it won’t, operations will go “black” and sharing info among agencies will stop. Back to pre 9/11 dependencies on the CIA to counter all threats.
Do you nay-sayers really care if our government roughs up the guy who may be the key to saving your life/your families life?
Posted by: the other side | February 9, 2009, 10:33 pm 10:33 pm
So, the CIA will continue this behavior simply going underground if banned? I have a suggestion-Life sentences with out parole for torture period. Our nation cannot lay claim to greatness, world moral leadeship or even freedom if this is allowed. I am deeply ashamed of Obama and Holder for this decision.
Posted by: Michael O'Neal | February 9, 2009, 11:06 pm 11:06 pm
ABC…there is no such court as the “Ninth U.S. District Court.” The appeal is before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.
Posted by: ca9employee | February 9, 2009, 11:09 pm 11:09 pm
in reference to Dan-
Posted by: Dan | Feb 9, 2009 5:49:59 PM
“When the United States tortures, the people who want to undermine our democracy have won. We are the same as the terrorists when we torture. They don’t need to conquer us; we are becoming them. If you want to fight terrorists, uphold the freedoms we have in our constitution.”
C’mon Dan- and all -STOP- this is an area that has plagued men and countries for milennia- in our own country- The Swamp Fox did actions in the French-Indian War- so when the stakes are upped by the usage of torture; the closer the society gets to actual WAR- Only DESPERATE men use torture-and only in DESPERATE times. The writing is on the wall on this one——————Do for survivals’ sake what must be done- if you want to survive…
Posted by: andy | February 10, 2009, 12:07 am 12:07 am
“The ACLU says the Obama administration reneged on civil liberties, offers “more of the same.”"
HA! The bloom is coming off the rose…
Thanks to ABC for this reporting.
Posted by: tjp612 | February 10, 2009, 12:08 am 12:08 am
What is it when your country men have trubles maybe they should just put
a t.v camera on the enemy combantant’s
an strap a phentanol patch an see how long it takes them to tell the world how bad they been and hate life.
Thats alot cheaper then safe housed vacations maybe we should just pour them mojitos and see what they got to say your right.
After all the stuff you need to know is probily in a little book.
there was once a day We didn’t provide quarter or trial for combantant’s they should be proud that they lived an had the discipline to survive rightously.
Posted by: Jason Albrecht | February 10, 2009, 12:29 am 12:29 am
Point of Fact in response to: “Not sure I’d put it like that, hyena, but
Obama was elected Commander in Chief, not Lawyer in Chief
- his responsibilities are for our national security.”
Obama’s (and every single President’s) inaugural oath was to defend the United States Constitution. He can’t just choose to ignore the law of the land because of the rather absurd logic that he wasn’t elected to be a lawyer.
Posted by: Ian | February 10, 2009, 12:51 am 12:51 am
As long as we play by their rules we’re OK. They WANT us to play by our rules which are weak and insufficient to do the job. Ask John McCain if torture works, it does. If you would really trade one American “free thinker” s life for a brainwashed terrorists life, you might be a martyr, but you’d be no christian soldier for the right all and I means ALL religious beliefs rights.
Posted by: Cleats53 | February 10, 2009, 2:06 am 2:06 am
All lies. Nothing has changed. 9/11 was an inside job to get the American people to allow the military industrial complex to create conflict where there was no REAL conflict. So your MIC companies could fleece the tax payers out of trill ons of dollars. Same as the oil cartel is fleecing the world. This along with all the criminals in the financial banks and wall street gang have bought the world economy to where it is today.
The American People need to wake up.
The American People need to know the truth.
The American People need to tell the government to stop all the bull.
It is probley too late.
END GAME
It is OVER.
Can it be Saved?
Can Obama change the game?
How have they threaten Obama?
Who are they?
I know who they are.
Not all their plans have worked out as planned lately.
There is now an openning to save yourselves from them.
One last chance.
Do you even realize how they have brain washed you?
Wake Up!
Posted by: Steve | February 10, 2009, 7:00 am 7:00 am
The issue here is the difference between Barack Obama the Senator, and Barack Obama the President of the United States. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the days before Obama took office; the days when he was informed of the issues relating to the most vital and national security matters. I do not know about the rest of you, but I was watching the press pics of Obama closely, and I do believe that if you were a careful observer, one could see the man change before our eyes.
The issue of his position in this particular matter relates more to the real weight and burden of being the President than it does to what all of us think we might really want to happen or that might be right or wrong. The bottom line is, Obama now realizes that there is much more at stake now than just campaign issues, and if the man really has integrity toward protecting the country to the best of his ability, then he will do what has to be done; regardless of what the press, the courts, the ACLU, or anyone else thinks. When he does, he will change again before our eyes, just like George W. Bush did, and just like all the other Presidents that were before him. He will age from the weight of the burden, he will lose that generous vigor that he displayed during the campaign, he will endure for the betterment of the country, rather than just for the betterment of political gain.
Posted by: Midwest Bill | February 10, 2009, 8:14 am 8:14 am
Obama doesn’t know how to act on anything. He’s putting all his “faith” on his appointees. This stimulus IS spending and pork. Jobs??? Well what if you are not in IT, construction, law enforcement or teacher? What about jobs for millions of administrative people, nurses, etc. that are laid off? And, $1000 per family and $500 per individual is going to “Jump start” the economy? I don’t think so. All he did last night was “campaigning” and repeating the last 8 years and what went wrong. He is good at that, pointing blame but I never heard WHAT he was going to do??? He also seemed to “select” his news media last night. Only 13 in 1 hour! Come on people, where is the change. I heard this morning the world market is very jittery and I haven’t seen the market make any drastic jumps to help the economy either.
Posted by: jill | February 10, 2009, 8:39 am 8:39 am
Joe D. is right. And thank you for your service to your country Joe. There are still some REAL Americans out there like me that appreciate everything you do in protecting our country against these radical idiots. Just wait until the car bombs start going off in New York, Dallas, Los Angeles and then see what these nuts say about renditions and tortue. They have no idea that we are fighting a group of people who will not stop until there ideology is running the world.
Posted by: Frankh | February 10, 2009, 8:58 am 8:58 am
You all miss the point. This man was INNOCENT. He was taken by mistaken identity. There is no point in taking and torturing an INNOCENT man. He is trying to get heard about what happened to him, but what happened to him has been declared a STATE SECRET and NATIONAL SECURITY. that is a smoke-screen – to protect the US Government from being ‘outed’ about what types of practices it will conduct on innocent people. Remember – this innocent man’s experience can be YOURS if you post the wrong comment here. Unless we put the Bush administration through the wringer, hold the hearings, conduct the law review and determine if what they did was legal, justified and appropriate given the circumstances. It was determined that given similar or more dire conditions during WWII, that FDR acted inappropriately when he interned thousands of Japanese-AMericans for reasons of ‘national security’
Posted by: Larry E | February 10, 2009, 11:04 am 11:04 am
And Obama is a moron, this is becoming quite evident!
RT
Posted by: Jimmy Jones | February 10, 2009, 1:10 pm 1:10 pm
Indeed, Robert.
It’s *amazing* how serious the mainstream media has suddenly started taking national security! All this time Bush had the same policy, yet they said the worst things about him!
I guess poor Dubya just had the bad luck to be C-in-C before everyone found out how important and fragile national security was! Some people have all the luck!
Posted by: hitnrun | February 10, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm
The worst part of this is that it places the Executive Branch above all judicial review. This principle was first tried in 1953 and was given deference by the courts because it was so seldom used. 90% of the use since then was by the Bush administration. It is a shame to see this unbridled misuse of executive power exerted within three weeks of taking office.
What’s the big deal about secrecy? The facts of the case have been reported widely and adjudicated in Swedish courts.
Posted by: Wayne Tulkin | February 10, 2009, 8:35 pm 8:35 pm
“Ask John McCain if torture works, it does.”
Actually, if you ask John McCain if torture works, he’ll tell you that it scarred him for life and made him admit he was an “air pirate.” He’ll tell you that it broke him, and made him say whatever his interrogators wanted to hear. Not the truth, mind you – what his interrogators WANTED TO HEAR. That’s why every civilized nation rules out torture as a method of gaining information – not because it “isn’t nice” but because it isn’t EFFECTIVE.
Posted by: Jay | February 10, 2009, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm
Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.
Posted by: Darwin | February 11, 2009, 12:44 pm 12:44 pm
It could be funny, but it is actually very sad, to see how american people suddenly get concerned about torture and illegal actions in other countries.
It has been happening during many, many years. Most of the times with the support and intervention of US government, to protect or promote the “american way of life” and their business.
What is not legal in U.S.A. could be legal in others countries ?. What about the reasons that make it illegal in U.S.A.? That is not being a good neighbor!.
It is nothing new. And wonders why so many people are against U.S.A. in the world ?.
American people are good people, have good feelings and hearts. But lives in a bubble, don’t know anything about the actual world and others countries, as long their home is safe.
Your country is managed not by politicians but by business men, so you could only get some minor changes. Something must be change so nothing really changes.
I once believe that U.S.A was drove by principles but I am starting to think that U.S.A. actions are driven by pure power, because they can and want it no matter if legal or not.
Posted by: JustMe | February 12, 2009, 7:46 am 7:46 am
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”
– Thomas Jefferson
The day is coming.
Posted by: anon | February 15, 2009, 12:13 pm 12:13 pm
Is it any surprise that Bush’s secrets will remain secret? Wake up everyone, it’s a closed door society and being the victim of illegal wiretapping myself due to having knowledge of Cheney, Bush and Abramoff you really wouldn’t want to expose the CIA’s dirty little secrets of illicit drug running which by the way the Clinton’s participated in. Not to mention Fox News stake in it all.
Posted by: Brian T. Ferguson | February 16, 2009, 7:49 pm 7:49 pm
every one is talking now. Tow very important things. We who stood behind our president. Stand up, make the change. To pur new Attorney General.. watch it out. Have a plan for the change. We all face difficult change.. we all have to undestand how the change has to come from all of us.
Posted by: Osman | February 21, 2009, 1:25 am 1:25 am
Sammy, do you not understand the concept of national security?
If you want to risk your families life in order to heed an abstraction, so be it. But for me, I’ll crush you, the ACLU or anyone else who tries to impose ridiculous constraints in a time of war. These are LIVES we are talking. Law goes out the window when we are talking about portecting lives.
Posted by: ryan | February 25, 2009, 1:03 am 1:03 am
>These are LIVES we are talking. Law goes out the window when we are talking about portecting lives.
No, it doesn’t. Law is what we USE to protect lives. What we know as Al Qaeda began in Egypt with the followers of Sayyed Qutb, including Ayman Zawahiri. They became radicalised and violent because the Egyptian government used torture to suppress them, because the government didn’t respect human rights and the rule of law.
Your ancestors believed that abstractions like freedom and the rights of the individual were worth more than their lives. That these rights were worth dying for. And they did die for them, in the Revolution and the Civil War and in WWII, and because of their belief in those abstractions your life is relatively safe, and relatively free.
Some of the things being kept secret in these cases probably do relate to actual operations which could be endangered by the release of information, but I suspect that many of them are simply things that would reveal wrongdoing or otherwise embarrass the state. There needs to be more oversight of what should and should not be kept secret by people and bodies who are impartial and have no motive to protect the government or its agents from embarrassment or prosecution.
Posted by: Grant | March 5, 2009, 5:12 pm 5:12 pm
What is the latest on this case?
Martha
Posted by: Martha Luehrmann | February 13, 2010, 3:42 pm 3:42 pm
Prediction This is often should be expected promote workouts thru question about highly developed personal financial ecosystem, commercial coupled with political. The value of the actual prospects with flow pace stances happens to be royal engagement. Due to this, numerous sources of information are available to a forex broker (Reuters, Telerate, Bloomberg Luteal phase) giving use of all premiums and even personal information used by the actual trading stocks. Additionally, it comes with use of principal credit symptoms and therefore the offshore debt particulars. It can variety an opinion regarding the story connected with rates or alternatively payments thus that is expected coming stances.
Posted by: Savoir comment faire l'amour | November 30, 2011, 8:50 am 8:50 am