Obama Insists $800-Billion Stimulus Pass By This Weekend

Why does the bill have to be $800 billion if half of it is in pork like ATV trails ect.? Spending money on things that will not help the economy is stupid especially since we have to borrow all of the money.

TARP “had to pass” by a weekend this autumn, and look at the results from it. The bill the House passed is not stimulus. Most of the spending doesn’t even occur until 2010, or later. Defeat it now, and work on a bill that is truly stimulating to the economy.

President Obama wants it passed by this weekend, because support is declining every day as we find out more about the wasteful spending.

The ‘rush’ leads one to think that there is something that is not being told and ‘transparent’—that we are FLAT BROKE and in debt to China and India and they are calling the note on us? Watch closely to see where the next ‘stimulus’ is allotted, IF they tell us— and demand of our leaders that they keep close watch on our money! When China and India want what we already owe them, will it be our defense programs/military expertise that we give them? How we will repay the next trillion? and the next?

Haste makes waste. Mr. President I thought by now you would have learned that. You got schooled from your cabinet picks by rushing them through and we all know how well that turned out.
There is no reason to ram this bill of pork through before the weekend. None. I would say you have caused enough damage for one week. We just keep creeping towards socialism, don’t we Mr. President sir!
To the republican senators: Keep your spines! Do NOT sell out! Unless they let you impeach Pelosi first, then maybe…

Are all you people idiots? (thank you Claire McCaskill for the inspirational word!!). If nothing passes, and soon, unemployment will quickly rise to double digits. If you people knew anything about economics you would realize that we need a stimulus bill NOW and not in six months – - – waiting another six months will mean failure and catastrophe. And “government spending,” for all you wannabe Reaganties out there, IS STIMULUS – - – you can’t build a bridge with a tax cut! I’m surprised some of you who posted can even spell!

When Bush was still in office, what ever he wanted. And look where that got us. At least Obama is looking out for all the people, not just his rich friends. Every day more and more people are lossing thier jobs by the thousands. Stop the houseing colapse and the bleeding, and we can start the healing process. From most posts I see, the “R”‘s lost, and are still lost. To bad we all suffer for the past 8 years.

Obama, your own words are the best here, and I quote “you can put lipstick on a pig and it’s still a pig”.
Yeah Obama, remember that one?! That’s what this “stimulous” bill is.

We were told last year that the bailouts had to pass or the economy would fail.
Look where we are today !!
So now this bill has to pass by the weekend. Or what? the boogie man is going to come? $900 billion of taxpayers money is a lot of money.
Take your time. Make sure that it will work. For what I have read the bill is not going to make jobs immediately. It will take years to implement.

I think Mr. Obama will be one of the worst President our country would ever want to know.

What is wrong with you people? If a package doesn’t pass, and pass soon, it will mean double digit unemployment. The middle class will suffer, and suffer big. But I guess the only people leaving feedback here are brainwashed Reaganites who believe the way to stimulate the economy is to give tax breaks to the wealthy and let it “trickle down.” So if you’re wealthy and you left one of these posts, then fine, you’re rich and don’t think putting people back to work is worth it. If you’re middle income or poor and you think this way, you’re a fool. 95% PLUS OF ECONOMIST ARE PUSHING FOR A STIMULUS LARGER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED (> 800,000).

young_voter…
1)You may want some of the education money.
2)While you are absolutely entitled to your opinion… the gross negligence of your comment comes from making a prediction that has no factual basis, ONLY opinion.

“you can’t build a bridge with a tax cut!” — and you can’t build a bridge with food stamps. There’s more money for food stamps than bridges.

Thank you, Green. It does appear that these posts are full of FOX watchers – - – people who think with something other than their brains.

Sounds like blackmail to me. Government is not the solution; government is the problem.

I don’t think that Americans are opposed to a stimulous as long as it does what it is supposed to do. Create jobs and stimulate the economy. The problem is that the bill as it is now written does neither. It is wasteful pet projects by congress, nothing more.

Mary… there isn’t any “pork” in the bill — no special interest earmarks, which is the long accepted definition of pork (pork barrel spending).
There are legitimate issues with some of the prescribed spending and debate on these components is merited. But, please get some facts before you start quoting same ol’, same ol’ “talking points”. Thanks.
PS — I work in the entertainment business and would like to remind you it is one industry that has a strong “made in America” component.
Also — are you aware that entertainment (movies, TV, videos, etc.) has consistently been among the TOP exports of the good ol’ USA for years?
Yep. We won’t be hoarding any money, we will spend it and people will have jobs. 98% of our industry is not those big names you see on screen and on the tube. We’re working class middle income Americans, just like (presumably) you are.

1st Obama said the stimulas Had to be Passed with No pork as fast as possible. Then he Changed it to Pass by the Presidents Day Holiday on Feb 16. Now he Changes it to This Weekend. I Guess this is the kind of Change Obama was talking about for Washington!!!

The great Nobel laureate James McGill Buchanan, Jr. was correct and Obama/Congressional Democrats are the perfect example of the “public choice” theory.

Obama is actively trying to take down the American economy so he can institute socialism and have complete control over my life and yours…

I need a new poolhouse,and make my pool bigger. Why? well I figure if this CEO can spend the money foolishly, Why can I not ask for some of it .

These posts are depressing (as most are, I suppose); nothing constructive at all (thank you seneca264: ‘this country is going down’).
We’re entering “The New Depression.” It will be a long and difficult recession. Many people won’t be directly impacted (after all, even if unemployment is 30% that still means 70% are working). BUt indirectly everyone will suffer. Just think about what will happen to the crime rate and the poverty rate. You will be affected. How about some positive posts, like your suggestion on what money should be spent on, instead of criticizing and not suggesting anything (like most Republicans appear to be doing).

Good God above, WHY does it have to be passed this weekend? So Obama gets a “win?” Why cripple this country for DECADES to come? It must be slowed down. Now.

The second half of the first 700 billion hasn’t been used yet. What are they waiting for if it’s so dire to get another 800 billion NOW? This is rediculous! They have sat on the 350 Billion from the first bailout and don’t know what to do with it. Government messes up more than it fixes. STOP THE STIMULUS NOW!

People write your Senators and urge them to vote NO!!!!! speak up

Catman,
The numbers will change. The bill will be changed and explained.
PS — the polls you are talking about are not so exemplary of the general public as say, polls during an election.
A lot of people have gone on about their business, so to speak. I’ve asked a few friends and all they say is, something like… “wait until it’s in a final form before I make my decision about it”.
And– I will remind you … the ONLY poll that counts is in the voting booth and this administration and their policies were voted in.
PS — No pork in this bill. Ill-advised spending? That’s debatable (and SHOULD be debated) — but there are NO Special Interest Earmarks.
I won’t even get into the “socialism” argument with you… sheesh, that’s almost as ridiculous as the bc (I won’t even spell that one out!)
bye bye… gotta hit the feed trough

The Republicans got together last weekend and decided in masse to fight Obama on everything claiming that the stimulus bill is full of pork, blah, blah, blah. Apparently, they want this president to fail just as Limbaugh admits he does. We have a disaster in this country brought on by Republican leadership and so obviously we should listen to everything they have to say! Right? Just how well do tax cuts work? Look at our economy…that says it all. Our country is in dire straits and it is time to quit listening to the Republican naysayers. It’s time to get on the right track, get the stimulus done, and hope it isn’t too late for it to work.

I believe Obama and Congress are about to hear a very loud ROAR of dis-satisfaction!

Paul said: “95% PLUS OF ECONOMIST ARE PUSHING FOR A STIMULUS LARGER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED (> 800,000).”
First off, I dispute your assertion. At best, it’s 95% plus of Keynesian-style economists. News flash…they are not the ONLY economists out there! There is plenty of dispute amongst economists concerning this stimulus package, and it boils down to what economic model they believe in more. Your quote of statistics is deceptive at best. Cite your source, please, and let us judge the veracity of your claim.

I’m a Republican . I voted for Mc Cain reluctantly . I fully support Obama’s presidency now that he is our President . I do not support this wasteful in-efficent spending of our tax dollars . See above for my take on what we should have as a stimulus package . Our economy will one day recover from this mess …..hoever …I fear it will never ever be the same .

Are all you people idiots? (thank you Claire McCaskill for the inspirational word!!). If nothing passes, and soon, unemployment will quickly rise to double digits. If you people knew anything about economics you would realize that we need a stimulus bill NOW and not in six months – - – waiting another six months will mean failure and catastrophe. And “government spending,” for all you wannabe Reaganties out there, IS STIMULUS – - – you can’t build a bridge with a tax cut! I’m surprised some of you who posted can even spell!
Posted by: Paul
Most of the going on is nothing but BS to get people to support this pork bill. Tax cuts always work to improve the economy, always have and always will. You might like to go back in history and take a look at the rise in tax income when taxes were cut. The most of the tax cuts being talked about by the Obama gang is for the 40% that don’t pay taxes now. That is a welfare check to me not a tax cut. Then we know that even the guy in charge of the IRS now does not pay his taxes. This group is the one always wanting to increase taxes and I see why, they just don’t pay theirs so why not.
Kill this bill today and go back the drawing board. If it passes tomorrow it won’t help and faster than if they go back and do a good bill. Good bill coming from the far left bunch by be a pipe dream. But we got hope from the Blue dogs who don’t want this anymore than anyone else except the far left.

I stole the following from an economist’s comment on this latest Bali-Out. You can find the following and more at mises.org
Just as “war is too important to be left to the generals,” accounting is too vital for the economy and everyone’s finances to have been left to the experts, whether they be visionary professors, auditors eager to strengthen their position, analysts, (ex-)investment bankers, or any of the manifold international committees. All have been as arrogant in the defense of their false science as they have been ignorant of their role as mere sorcerer’s apprentices playing with a fire that has been on the verge of provoking the most severe financial crisis to ravage the world since 1929.

Paul…put the Kool-Aid down, double digit unemployment is going to happen after this passes, it is a spending bill, READ IT FOR GOD SAKES…Nancy Pelosi said “If this bill doesn’t pass 500 million Americans will be out of work”. Yes she said “500 Million Americans”, there isn’t that many Americans in America. no even close. talk about an idiot

Can anyone tell me where the stimulus plan is posted? I have looked all over for it.

Paul…you should change your screen name to Chicken Little…”the sky is falling!” Or perhaps Paulsen, since he was screaming the same just a few months ago, got his $$$ bill rushed through, and the effect? $800 billion, $900 billion, or more, is a HUGE debt to take on. If we decide to take on this MASSIVE DEBT (may just be a down payment on an even larger debt), we better make sure it is the RIGHT and MOST EFFECTIVE thing to do.

Kill this bill today and go back the drawing board. If it passes tomorrow it won’t help and faster than if they go back and do a good bill. Good bill coming from the far left bunch by be a pipe dream. But we got hope from the Blue dogs who don’t want this anymore than anyone else except the far left.
Yes….Kill this bill today ….write your Senator and urge them to kill this pork barrel, grow government socialist spending bill, this bill will no great jobs, in the private sector, the few union jobs it does will be temporary and will will really be in a mess, Michigan style.write your Senator and urge them to “VOTE NO”

JK…Look at the website for the U.S. House. When you read the bill, it may make you nauseous.

Paul…sorry, try again. Nothing in Zandi’s posts on Moodyseconomy.com say anything about just “throwing money” at it (specifically pork). Just because they might advocate spending doesn’t mean they are advocating wanton, careless “pork” spending that seems more targeted toward implementing a social engineering agenda than pure job creation or economic stimulus. CUT THE PORK!

Sheeple, sheeple, please calm down. There is nothing to fear. You will be kept safe. Please stay tuned to your local t.v. and radio stations. You will soon receive instructions on where to report to your assigned community indoctrination center. You will be required to bring all firearms and ammunition and surrender them to your community representative. You will then be required to submit a DNA sample, finger prints, and face scan. Please be patient, this procedure will not take very long. Please bring all forms of identification with you, including passports. All forms of I.D. will be confiscated and you and your family members will be provided with a new biometric universal I.D. You will be required to maintain this I.D. on your person at all times. You will be required to surrender your Universal I.D. card to any law enforcement, civilian security force, or military forces upon request. Failure to do so will result in arrest. Conviction will result in a mandantory 1 year sentence to community work camps. Etc, etc, etc, etc,………………….. We can only blame ourselves for this mess. We allowed it to happen.

Neofred:
What do you mean by your post that unemployment will go to double digits even if this passes since it’s a spending bill? What do you, or many of the people on this post, think that a SPENDING BILL, does? GOVERNMENT spends money on infrastructure, for example, to create construction jobs, thereby putting people to work and a multiplier salary into the economy. IS that the problem: people’s hang-ups with the word SPENDING? Spending means the government creates jobs to stimulate the economy. Am I missing something here NeoFred? Spending is stimulus, properly targeted. The point of spending IS to create jobs, so that hopefully the unemployment rate will not reach 15%.

$44 million for construction, repair and improvements at US Department of Agriculture facilties
$209 million for work on deferred maintenance at Agricultural Research Service facilities
$245 million for maintaining and modernizing the IT system of the Farm Service Agency
$175 million to buy and restore floodplain easements for flood prevention
$50 million for “Watershed Rehabilitation”
$1.1 billion for rural community facilities direct loans
$2 billion for rural business and industry guaranteed loans
$2.7 billion for rural water and waste dispoal direct loans
$22.1 billion for rural housing insurance fund loans
$2.8 billion for loans to spur rural broadband
$150 million for emergency food assistance
$50 million for regional economic development commissions
$1 billion for “Periodic Censuses and Programs”
$350 million for State Broadband Data and Development Grants
$1.8 billion for Rural Broadband Deployment Grants
$1 billion for Rural Wireless Deployment Grants
$650 million for Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Program
$100 million for “Scientific and Technical Research and Services” at the National Institute of Standards And Technology
$30 million for necessary expenses of the “Hollings Manufacturing Extension Partnership”
$300 million for a competitive construction grant program for research science buildings
$400 million for “habitat restoration and mitigation activities” at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
$600 million for “accelerating satellite development and acquisition”
$140 million for “climate data modeling”
$3 billion for state and local law enforcement grants
$1 billion for “Community Oriented Policing Services”
$250 million for “accelerating the development of the tier 1 set of Earth science climate research missions recommended by the National Academies Decadal Survey.”
$50 million for repairs to NASA facilities from storm damage
$300 million for “Major Research Insrumentation program” (science)
$200 million for “academic research facilities modernization”
$100 million for “Education and Human Resources”
$400 million for “Major Research Equipment and Facilities Construction”
$4.5 billion to make military facilities more energy efficient
$1.5 billion for Army Operation and Maintenance fund
$624 million for Navy Operation and Maintenance
$128 million for Marine Corps Operation and Maintenance
$1.23 billion for Air Force Operation and Maintenance
$454 million to “Defense Health Program”
$110 million for Army Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$62 million for Navy Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$45 million for Marine Corps Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$14 million for Air Force Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$302 million for National Guard Operation and Maintenance
$29 million for Air National Guard Operation and Maintenance
$350 million for military energy research and development programs
$2 billion for Army Corps of Engineers “Construction”
$250 million for “Mississippi River and Tributaries”
$2.2 billion for Army Corps “Operation and Maintenance”
$25 million for an Army Corps “Regulatory Program”
$126 million for Interior Department “water reclamation and reuse projects”
$80 million for “rural water projects”
$18.5 billion for “Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy” research in the Department of Energy. That money includes:
$2 billion for development of advanced batteries
$800 million of that is for biomass research and $400 million for geothermal technologies
$1 billion in grants to “institutional entities for energy sustainability and efficiency”
$6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
$3.5 billion for Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grants
$3.4 billion for state energy programs
$200 million for expenses to implement energy independence programs
$300 million for expenses to implement Energy efficient appliance rebate programs including the Energy Star program
$400 million for expenses to implement Alternative Fuel Vehicle and Infrastructure Grants to States and Local Governments
$1 billion for expenses necessary for advanced battery manufacturing
$4.5 billion to modernize the nation’s electricity grid
$1 billion for the Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee Program
$2.4 billion to demonstrate “carbon capture and sequestration technologies”
$400 million for the Advanced Research Projects Agency (Science)
$500 million for “Defense Environmental Cleanup”
$1 billion for construction and repair of border facilities and land ports of entry
$6 billion for energy efficiency projects on government buildings
$600 million to buy and lease government plug-in and alternative fuel vehicles
$426 million in small business loans
$100 million for “non-intrusive detection technology to be deployed at sea ports of entry
$150 million for repair and construction at land border ports of entry
$500 million for explosive detection systems for aviation security
$150 million for alteration or removal of obstructive bridges
$200 million for FEMA Emergency Food and Shelter program
$325 million for Interior Department road, bridge and trail repair projects
$300 million for road and bridge work in Wildlife Refuges and Fish Hatcheries
$1.7 billion for “critical deferred maintenance” in the National Park System
$200 million to revitalize the National Mall in Washington, D.C.
$100 million for National Park Service Centennial Challenge programs
$200 million for repair of U.S. Geological Survey facilities
$500 million for repair and replacement of schools, jails, roads, bridges, housing and more for Bureau of Indian Affairs
$800 million for Superfund programs
$200 million for leaking underground storage tank cleanup
$8.4 billion in “State and Tribal Assistance Grants”
$650 million in “Capital Improvement and Maintenance” at the Agriculture Dept.
$850 million for “Wildland Fire Management”
$550 million for Indian Health facilties
$150 million for deferred maintenance at the Smithsonian museums
$50 million in grants to fund “arts projects and activities which preserve jobs in the non-profit arts sector threatened by declines in philanthropic and other support during the current economic downturn” through the National Endowment for the Arts
$1.2 billion in grants to states for youth summer jobs programs and other activities
$1 billion for states in dislocated worker employment and training activities
$500 million for the dislocated workers assistance national reserve
$80 million for the enforcement of worker protection laws and regulations related to infrastructure and unemployment insurance investments
$300 million for “construction, rehabilitation and acquisition of Job Corps Centers”
$250 million for public health centers
$1 billion for renovation and repair of health centers
$600 million for nurse, physician and dentist training
$462 million for renovation work at the Centers for Disease Control
$1.5 billion for “National Center for Research Resources”
$500 million for “Buildlings and Facilties” at the National Institutes of Health in suburban Washington, D.C.
$700 million for “comparative effectiveness research” on prescription drugs
$1 billion for Low-Income Home Energy Assistance
$2 billion in Child Care and Development Block Grants for states
$1 billion for Head Start programs
$1.1 billion for Early Head Start programs
$100 million for Social Security research programs
$200 million for “Aging Services Programs”
$2 billion for “Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology”
$430 million for public health/social services emergency funds
$2.3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control for a variety of programs
$5.5 billion in targeted education grants
$5.5 billion in “education finance incentive grants”
$2 billion in “school improvement grants”
$13.6 billion for Individuals with Disabilities Education Act
$250 million for statewide education data systems
$14 billion for school modernization, renovation and repair
$160 million for AmeriCorps grants
$400 million for the construction and costs to establish a new “National Computer Center” for the Social Security Administration
$500 million to improve processing of disability and retirement claims
$920 million for Army housing and child development centers
$350 million for Navy and Marine Corps housing and child development centers
$280 million in Air Force housing and child development centers
$3.75 billion in military hospital and surgery center construction
$140 million in Army National Guard construction projects
$70 million in Air National Guard construction projects
$100 million in Army Reserve construction projects
$30 million in Navy Reserve construction projects
$60 million in Air Force Reserve construction projects
$950 million for VA Medical Facilities
$50 million for repairs for military cemeteries
$120 million for a backup information management facility for the State Department
$98 million for National Cybersecurity Initiative
$3 billion for “Grants-in-Aid for Airports”
$300 million for Indian Reservation roads
$300 million for Amtrak capital needs
$800 million for national railroad assets or infrastructure repairs, upgrades
$5.4 billion in federal transit grants
$2 billion in infrastructure development for subways and commuter railways
$5 billion for public housing capital
$1 billion in competitive housing grants
$2.5 billion for energy efficiency upgrades in public housing
$500 million in Native American Housing Block Grants
$4.1 billion to help communities deal with foreclosed homes
$1.5 billion in homeless prevention activities
$79 billion in education funds for states

JK: this site presents a partial list of items in the bill. You be the judge for each item as to whether or not it’s pork. The House bill is 647 pages long and I had difficulty deciphering the few sections I attempted to read. http://stopthejunk.com/2009/01/economic-stimulus-bill-list-of-items/———
Some is valid job creation, infrastructure, and direct stimulus. Some is pork (Paul asserts only .1% is pork, but, as we’ve seen, one man’s pork is another man’s stimulus, so I’d rather judge myself rather than take someone else’s word for it).

Sandy,
You mentioned that “it will be a better bill when OUR WILL is heard over that of a man who can’t even screen his cabinet correctly.” Well, if you recall on Nov. 4, our will was heard when Barack Obama was elected President of the United States of America. You might not agree with his policies, but they can’t be much worse than the policies of the last administration that helped guide us into this mess. He’s been in office for 15 days and already has made progress such as proposing limits to bailed out banks’ CEO pay, SCHIP funding for uninsured and under-insured children, and reaching across the aisle for ideas and input from Republican leaders. Give him a break, and the rest of us a chance to see what he has to offer. We didn’t get into this mess overnight and guess what–we won’t get out of it overnight either, no matter how you look at it or who is running the show. Even if John McCain would have won the election, it would take time to dig us out of this ditch. I would at least give him time to start digging before making judgments.

Ugh. You neocons are hopeless. Right wingers got us into this mess, right wingers will screw it up with their faulty economic analysis and their obstructionism. Government must create jobs, and soon. The only ones saying no are the wealthy because, well, they’re wealthy and don’t give a flying **** about the rest of the country. And the Republicans are the party of the wealthy; they just want tax cuts for their wealthy buddies.

Paul…the example you provide concerning job creation from government spending is valid. I would add on the purchase of automobiles for the federal government falls in the same category. However, just because spending such as this DOES create jobs does NOT mean that ALL items in the bill do.
Bottom line, though, there is a significant amount of spending paralysis on the part of both consumers and businesses due to worry about the future (a valid worry), and they are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy (not spending due to worries about the future result in reduction in aggregate demand, resulting in further economic turmoil, and the cycle continues). No matter how much $$$ the government throws at this, NOTHING will change unless consumer and business confidence increases and they actually start spending and investing their money.

($426 million in small business loans), that is one I would be okay with, if it was in the billions, not millions.
($5 billion for public housing capital)????? can you see whats wrong with this picture?

Man, I really need a big fix by this weekend or else the sun will fall from the sky. Quick we need to do it now. Hurry, limited time offer. Keep spending what we don’t have.
This is all nonsense. I’m bewildered on how many stupid comments are here.
Government is out of control. Will it be after everyone is squeezed out of the middle class that we realize big government screwed everyone?

Paul…some would say YOU are using faulty economic analysis.
“Government must create jobs”…some of the bill WILL create jobs. Some will simply create WORK (temporary…what happens when the work is done). Still more will not do anything (that would be the pork). How about “PRIVATE ENTERPRISE must create jobs”? The jobs in the private sector, reliant upon money from the private sector (read YOU AND ME) will be the jobs that are more lasting and won’t be reliant on MY TAX MONEY YEAR AFTER YEAR to be sustained.
Don’t get me wrong. There are some good things in this bill. But there are some significantly bad things with a hefty price tag that have got to go.
I think the moderate Democrats and Republicans that are working together on amendments relating what to cut are on the right track. I don’t think the bill needs to be scrapped; however, it does need some significant cuts of “pork” programs.
Remember, President Obama does NOT have line-item veto. It’s all or nothing on the bill that arrives on his desk. The trimming of the pork needs to be done NOW, before it arrives on his desk.

No wonder we can’t get crap done in this country because it’s always has to be my way or the highway mentality. It will never be all your way nor will it be all my way but sensible people have to come together in the interest of good will for all. Being an obstructionist because of idiotic ideology and party interest instead of contributing in the interest of “all Americans” is treason, in my opinion. Fortunately, the majority of posters in here do not represent the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans are sick of the partisanship and sick of the self-interest of politicians in bed with the robber barons. President Obama is Mr. Smith goes to Washington. The Washington establishment will do everything they can to discredit him and they have the vocal minority of dittoheads who follow right behind echoing their foolish call.

neofred said: “($426 million in small business loans), that is one I would be okay with, if it was in the billions, not millions.”
I would agree with this statement ONLY if it was going to businesses with a good business plan that had good market research and analysis and has a likelihood of succeeding (i.e. has an adequate market for their product to make the business profitable, if not in the short-term as it recoups start-up costs or needs a short-term influx of capital to ride out this economic downturn). But money for yet another antique store or pizza shop or “sell it on eBay” store in an already saturated market is a bad idea and doesn’t need to be propped up with MY MONEY!

I think giving additional tax breaks to homebuyers is nuts. This ecourages people who shouldn’t be buying a home, to buy, thus getting themselves into a financial mess. Affordable interest rates is the way to go. Giving people rebates to buy foreign vehicles is also nuts. Investing in roads and bridges is a must and would provide jobs. Making more funds available for home insulation, solar power would be a good investment and provide jobs.

Greenthumbx…I don’t have a problem with giving first time homebuyers a tax credit but I do have a problem with “all” homebuyers getting a tax credit.

Thank you David G. Succintly and well said. Just no more scrubbing with more tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%.

And by the way, even by conservative estimates, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will have cost the US taxpayer more than one trillion dollars. Well, that was money well spent, huh! Haliburton laughed all the way to the bank, and now HALIBURTON IS MOVING TO DUBAI because they said they want to be closer to their profit centers. Classic! So don’t expect Haliburton to be contributing any more tax monies to the Treasury – - – Dubais is a tax haven!

One classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Government waste and government control is what got us into this mess. More of the same won’t make it any better.
You’re insane if you think so.

neoconfred said: “there is a lot of money going to nothing, and little going to something that will work.”
You will get no argument from me on that one.
Bottom line is this: I DON’T WANT MY MONEY WASTED in this bill (or any bill, for that matter). Buy cars, build buildings, develop an energy infrastructure, and at the same time, put money back in the consumers’ pockets and businesses’ capital reserves. If you get one sector of the economy kick-started, the ripple effect will be able to be self-sustaining. Those 92%+ that still have a job, if/when they start spending, will start creating the jobs (real, sustainable jobs) for those that are unemployed. THAT is how this economy works. The government creating and SUSTAINING all of the jobs is called SOCIALISM (government control of the factors of productions, which includes labor). There is NO IMMEDIATE FIX. The free market is what has and what will drive this economy. There are some smart things the government can do to influence this, but the tens, if not hundreds, of billions in this bill for “pork” is NOT a smart thing to do.

And by the way, even by conservative estimates, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will have cost the US taxpayer more than one trillion dollars. Well, that was money well spent, huh! Haliburton laughed all the way to the bank, and now HALIBURTON IS MOVING TO DUBAI because they said they want to be closer to their profit centers. Classic! So don’t expect Haliburton to be contributing any more tax monies to the Treasury – - – Dubai is a tax haven!

Paul…we are talking about a bill to create jobs and stimulate the economy. Whatever your feelings on the US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan (and the spending involved) have NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT THIS BILL WILL STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.
What, did you run out of rational arguments to support your position, so you must throw out a red herring to try to distract us? Or is that just the next item on your list of talking points?

I would like someone in our government to list for each item in the stimulus package where, what kind and how many jobs will be created. That should be too difficult a task.

Paul said: “THank you neofred. I will vote no because there are too many tax cuts in this bill already. No more tax cuts to the wealthy!”
Your first statement shows you to be the Keynesian you are (not trying to use that as a derogatory term, simply stating that you support the economic theory that government spending, not tax relief and the resultant private sector spending, is what is needed to “fix” the economy) and would oppose any tax cuts (a la Paul Krugman).
As far as tax cuts to the wealthy…where exactly is that in this bill? I noticed something about cutting the BOTTOM tax bracket from 10% to 5%, and the second-lowest tax bracket from 15% to 10%. Please point out where (preferably page number and paragraph) in the actual bill that there is tax cuts for only the wealthiest 1%. Thanks.
Third, are you saying you would oppose this bill because there is too many tax cuts? Isn’t THAT obstructionist? Those have been in there from Day 1 of this Porkulus bill.

Harry Reid has nothing to do or say with this proposal. He is very lucky that he and his sons are not in prison for past bank and land dealings. We will get him next.For now, no stim package will either be considered or voted on. The American people who run this government will decide. No one else. Voters decide who stays or goes. Remember that. 2010 & 2012 are coming fast. The present BHO mess dictates he will be finished in 4 yrs. god help us all. For all you guppies out there who still believe in this false massiah reap what you sowed, a barren field of empty promises, what CHANGE???

Jim McDaniel said: “I would like someone in our government to list for each item in the stimulus package where, what kind and how many jobs will be created. That should be too difficult a task.”
They won’t because they CAN’T. The best they can do is provide some rough numbers based on the economic model in which they believe. It is ALL CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION.
They make “reasonable” estimates based on economic models they have built around their paradigm. The best we can do is listen to their explanations, their justification as to why their economic model and predictions should be trusted, and possibly actually back their model with some solid historical data from which the cause-effect relationships they assert can actually be demonstrated. Then we can judge if their predictions have some validity.
However, some will simply settle for “these economists said so, so they must be right.” Sorry, not good enough for me.
I wish I had a better answer for you.

Oh Noes…
WASHINGTON — The White House’s nominee for Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Leon Panetta, has earned more than $700,000 in speaking and consulting fees since the beginning of 2008, with some of the payments coming from troubled financial firms and from a firm that invests in contractors for federal national security agencies, according to financial disclosures released Wednesday.

CW: “Obama is taking out the clause that requires that money from the stimulus be used to buy USA products.”
Duh. Because several other countries – who buy goods from us – basically threatened a trade war if he did not. One thing the Republicans have right is the counter-productiveness of isolationist tariffs and I’m glad Obama understands reality when it is pointed out to him.

catman: why do you use the word ‘socialism’ to sneer at Democrats. You don’t even know what socialism means, let alone the difference between socialism and fascism is (and by the way Republicans are fascists). So why don’t you write back and give us the definition of Socialism and then if you’re correct then we want you to prove your point :what exactly is it about the Democratic policies that are socialism and why didn’t you mind when the rich got national socialism from
George W. Bush. I’m tired of you cons using buzzwords and slogans…get a freekin’ brain.

We know this is very drastic…considering the colossal collapse republicans left behind! If we can enough helicopters to fly around the country everywhere drop down bundles of cash it would be even better! I saw John McCain mouthing the same nonsense that George Bush did, for eight years. Tax cuts and more tax cuts for the rich! That how we got into this humongous collapse in the first place! Believe me Republicans are up to the same ignorant, partisan and dogmatic nonsense that turn America into a socialist country. But under the circumstances that Republicans left behind, we have no other choice. What we need right now is just like President Obama has proposed more spending! The more we can spend is better and we should as fast as we can and as vast quantities as possible! And only US Government is able to do that, because that Republicans have caused so much damage to our financial system by their poor, incompetent management. And that’s the only way possible to revitalize America. Pork or no pork, focused or unfocused, what we urgently need is more and huge amounts of government spending. All of that is needed to save our America from collapse after all the years of poor judgment and damage done to our country by the Republicans. Republicans are mouthing the same dogmatic stuff and trying to sound like fiscal conservatives, safeguarding interests of the people! Oh, my Lord, look who’s talking? All the damage done to our country over the past years, the same people are asking for same old stuff like tax cuts? I don’t understand what Republicans are all about. They are stuck in the same old worn out rut! All I know is their policies and ideas have ruined our country. After all the devastation done to America by the Republicans by their policies and their actions they are still mouthing the same spectacularly failed ideas! Boehner is saying the same stupid stuff like a trained Myna bird. We have tried all those Republican stuff and our country is not a Socialist state for all practical purposes. We know Republicans have ruined America. But Republican leaders like Kantor, Boehner, McCain, Kyle can’t help but to try selling the same snake oil to us Americans! We need government spending pork or no pork in huge amounts, to save our country from collapse!!!

hahahaha! I wonder what will happen if the bill DOESN’T pass??? Something it going to hit the fan (anyway)

I’m tired of this crap! We’re Americans…TAKE THE BAND AIDS OFF!!! This bill is only going to get our nation in further debt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You call what we had for the last 8 years no oversight, no regulation, and low taxes? We have laws and rules for everything. There is no free market. We’re told the free market “failed” in order to add more government control. From their perspective, WE the people aren’t smart enough to take care of ourselves. Someone else has to do it for us, using our money of course.
Have you looked recently at where your money goes? If you add it all up, you’ll see more than 50% of your money goes to government of one form or another. Local income tax, state income tax, federal income tax, social security, medicare, sales tax, real estate tax, sales tax, just to name the obvious ones. Then we have hidden taxes, like the gasoline tax, not to mention various government subsidies. And let’s not forget inflation because of their central bank (it’s not ours!), which many call a hidden tax.
The Federal Reserve and ridiculous government requirements are what caused the problem we are in. If the government had to ask us for money NOW for what they want to do, instead of borrowing it or creating it out of thin air, we the people wouldn’t be nearly as complacent. But when you get “deficit” spending, it isn’t obvious to the average person what that means, so we the people allow the government and central banks to continue their practice of serfdom.
Serfdom, you ask? Do you really think you are free?

To Student of John M. Keynes…are you advocating spending money anywhere and everywhere, regardless? That is what you seem to be implying. If that was the answer, then why hasn’t all the deficit spending over the last two years (and all the pork in all of those bills) just caused the economy to hum these past two years? I am not trying to justify the deficit spending from any era or administration, but, based on your logic, the economy should be soaring. Leave your high-and-mighty prose for the coffee shop talk over your $4.00 decaf mocha latte with a twist (or whatever).
Give us some FACTS and solid rationale on why your proposal will work.
And, by the way, how do you propose we PAY for all of this?

Lisa…you just said POSSIBLY start the economy rolling. You want to go further in debt taking a chance with this bill…r u serious? Americans spending too much money, and living beyond our means is why we’re here today, and ur asking our gov to go in further debt. What lefties don’t understand is THE MORE MONEY WE PRINT THE LESS OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH! Get that??? The gov is going to print more money to pay for this and the fact our dollar depreciates would offset any improvement from the bill, but the bill isn’t geared towards improving our economy today, so it doesn’t matter. This bill moves through we lose two ways…
1. The bill isn’t going to improve our economy over the short term
2. This could be the beginning of our country going bankrupt

MikeO: “It is ALL CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION.”
As is the “Don’t worry and do nothing and we won’t make a Great Depression 2!”
It is conjecture and speculation supported by a minority of economists that doing nothing would be in any way better than the stimulus.

Obama’s stimuless in really just a big spending bill. America see’s through this bill, no matter how much the media tries to protect their Messiah.
I’m surprised that all theses libs would follow their Leader without any thought. They spent the last year talking about how Bush scared us into giving up 700 billion and it had no effect, now Obama is doing the same thing but because he is the new guy. our Messiah, we must all follow him now.
Sorry, folks, the players have changed but the same old polatics remain the same

Since we are already 9 trillion in the tank, how about we cut spending and taxes, try to live within our means like most families have to. Common sense suggests that the answer to to much debt is not lots more debt. How many of you out there would live that way, how many of you would run a buisness that way. Call congress tell them to take the stimulus bill and burn it, (should make on helluv a bonfire) and ask them to start cutting spending.

It sounds like this bill is going to be passed no matter what the people say. Americans should vote on this decision
before we throw ourselves under the bus.

Wow – there are sure a lot of whiners on here. Come on Green Fairy – if you don’t get your way or convince people to think like you do you’re going to cwy like a little momma’s boy…no there are not 80% of the people on here who are thinking ‘with their brains’ thank-you – there’s now more like 90% and growing. Get over it – the Democrats and our new President are losing popularity faster than good ‘ol H.W. Too bad – if you want to go pout about it – go ahead – we won’t miss you. In the meantime – quit calling people names and stupid when obviously you are the stupid one.

No spending package is perfect. Go through every piece of spending legislation that the GOP controlled congress pushed through from 2001-2007, with far less of a majority than the DEMS have now, and you will also find “pork”.
But remember, on man’s pork is another man’s essential sustenance.
The GOP, in behaving the way it is, is literally disintegrating before the eyes of the american public. For this reason, the GOP “red dogs”, including Voinovich, Snowe and Co. are seriously working to side with the DEMS against their own party.
It is just a shame watching this once great party – the GOP – shoot itself in the foot, and then in the rear-end, and now, in the head. wow.

I think that is precisely what I was talking about the taxes are coming out of the working Americans paychecks to keep the taxes going out here and companies get bailouts,why not give the Americans something the companies getting what they want and I know that they are not the ones paying the taxes out here Ithink if my messege is read throughly then it would be understood that that is why now I feel like Americans need a bailout now and as many Americans working out hereand to keep a job they have to have one to go to that is stilloperating and not closed down or moved to another country like how so many or talking about doing.Where some of the other countries are coming over here to work Americans are going to have to go over to other coutries to work.The amout of companies and people living in america do not think that it will not take exactly what Obama is asking for.If in 3 to 6 months 3 different companies can get a stimulus worth the money that they got and they hard working Americans getting taxes taken out of their checks and while everybody playing around and time is not waiting on nobody people are loosing jobs,homes and most of all people have families with little children that don’t understand if you got to go stay in a shelter because you lost your job or your house and the people that is against the stimulus don’t realize the place where they work could very well be one the the companies to lay off or close down,then they would feel the same way that people who are getting laid off or loosing their jobs or their houses.If they need to decide on whatever where it concerns the stimulus then that is fine,but they need to try to get things together think about the Americans that whose jobs are not giving them time frame on a decision on whether they have a job or whether you get to keep your house.If you can decide on a stimulus in a matter for the companies with no problems then they can do it for the Americans.

I am a bit confused about this debate – some folks saying we are doomed without this bailout and others saying it would not help much. As someone without any background in finance, I am having difficulty to grasp the situation. Is it going to create enough jobs to keep folks employed? Where is this money coming from? Do we not have the right to know this? Is it borrowed or printed? If borrowed, what are the terms of the payment? Can our job creation pay for this loan the government is getting? Will there be a tax hike? If printed, what are the likely scenarios for devaluation of the dollar and inflation?

Agree or disagree, we got what we paid for with the TARP money. The banking sector is still alive and flush with cash. We even got a few non banks to get chartered and join the fray. Some of the big banks didn’t need the money, others needed it desperately – we had some implosions,a couple of bankruptcies, a number of merger/take overs/ buy outs and a few runs on the bank. The adjustments in banking were in large part possible because the Federal government bought warrants (a la TARP) in these companies. In the meantime, it is worth noting that the Federal government is buying nearly $4 Billion dollars a day of mortgage backed securities with the expectation of getting their fill when they have $500 Billion in assets in their coffers. This latter move has a direct impact on long term rates – and, hence, the reason we are enjoying record low interest rates on long term rates. In the end, we got what we paid for with TARP. Oh yeah – one other thing worth mentioning, the money that Paulson used to buy the warrants (preferred stock at a high rate of return) will ultimately be restored in the Fed’s accounts. In fact, the banks that took the TARP money have big incentives to buy the government out and several of those that took the money could have weathered the storm. There are those that have objected that Paulson did the right thing buy using TARP to infuse liquidity into the big banks and he should have stayed the course in buying the troubled assets the banks were holding. As far as I can tell, the money was well spent (actually invested); we will have to see what the overall impact is in the next couple of quarters. Plus, the Feds will ultimately sell off their interest in the mortgage backed assets and, it is forecasted (or at minimum assumed) they we will ultimately get our money back there as well. Yes, the Feds bailed out the banks but it was not a giveaway program the terms “bailout” suggests and was a very different beast than the stimulus bill up in front of Congress today.