Read His Lips: New Taxes

Everyone will be paying more taxes, premiums and fees.
And the lower income people will be affected too. Since those with higher incomes will have less money for extras they will do away with the housekeeper who came in once or twice a week, no more hiring the guy that mows the lawn, won’t go out to dinner as much (less tips), won’t travel as much (and all the low wage earners that effects), stop the newspaper and magazine deliveries, don’t buy a new car as often.
And instead of cash, higher wage earners will get bonuses that don’t show up on the income tax form so easily.

They make over a quarter million dollars a year – they can do both. Why are you trying to gin up sympathy for them? Why does the child who doesn’t get to eat on weekends because there’s no school-provided meals get no sympathy? Or parents who are adding water to a half gallon of milk to make it last longer? Or people who can’t afford the antibiotics or heart medication or dental fillings they need? There is real suffering in our country. Why are our priorities so messed up?

screw the rich, They found happiness, They should pay more. And to think that a family making 250,000 are going to stop spending is ‘nuts!
Kudos Obama! Keep up the good work.

Basic economics:
When anyone spends more by demand they spend less on “other things.” So when the business owners you all are talking about above are taxed more, they spend less on “other things.” And of course there is the little question of which income is he talking about? Adjusted gross, taxable, or gross. If it is gross income, you will see many things like this happen; no new employees, no raises for existing employees, layoff of existing employees, reduced employee benefits to those who do get them now, and the list will go on and on. Why? Because if they are talking gross income then people like myself whoses businesses gross more and are partnerships will be messed by these types of tax increases. I bet that even though my business makes more than most, I personally make far less than those who work similar hours as employees! And I know for a fact that I can’t afford to keep my employees health benefits if my taxes go up, and that is theory it is a fact. Because the reason they have health benefits is because I pay myself and my business partner so little, so that the firm can have health insurance.

“Why are you trying to gin up sympathy for them?”
Because telling your child that they can’t finish college because you have to pay for other people’s mortgages and other people’s healthcare and you don’t qualify for federal loans or grants is tough.

“And to think that a family making 250,000 are going to stop spending is ‘nuts!”
We’ve already stopped spending and will pull back even more. Y’know we keep current on our mortgage payments and other obligations and now we have to pay for our neighbors houses and their health insurance, too…

From the source conservatives like to qrote when it’s convenient:
but he who knew it not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few. And to every one to whom much has been given, much shall be required from him; and to whom men have committed much, they will ask from him the more.

Holly, Stealing from the “rich” to give to the “poor” is still stealing. IF you want free everything go to cuba or Russia. PS I’m not one of the “rich”. Americans are going to have to learn to live within thier means, if you make minimum wage don’t think you should own a new car, it is not your “right” the only rights you have are life (after you are born) liberty (unless they take our guns) and the pursuit of happiness. Don’t base your happiness on Obama stealing someone elses hard work to pay for your medicine. Further, watered down milk is pretty good, less fat per serving. Been there done that, it was ok. I and my eight children survived.

It’s not necessarily stealing:
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, snd unto God what is God’s.

People from all walks of life will always spend money on new cars, new clothes, new this and new that when required.
These are the same arguments I see whenever we propose higher working wages for hourly employees…but yet business still grows.
The economy will fix itself over time. What has not fixed itself over time is this country having a world class health system. We deteriorate year after year because of an improper health care system and I for one am happy to pay more taxes to fund it. Taxes that are necessary to keep the government and our country running in a manner to which we’ve come accustomed.
Now quit whining and pay your taxes. Its probably the most patriotic thing that any one of you will do in your lifetimes.

Starwyrmwood, the health care system is not going to fixed until we take perosnal repsonsibility for our health too. Paying more taxes will only give more money for corrupt politicians to siphon via earmarks. Litigation, greed, gluttony and envy are the reasons we are here. Health care is not a right, it is a privilege that we must not abuse. And making our employers because of the abuses we commit to our own health will ruin the economy.

No wonder this country is in this shape, RICH people crying over THIER SHARE! And who cares that they don’t hire the housekeeper etc, More Middle class will pick up the slack. Stop crying and go for therapy, or you can’t aford that now since you have to pay 5c more on your taxes.
NO SYMPATHY!
Go Obama!
Posted by: David | Feb 26, 2009 8:14:02 AM
*********
Could you possibly be more clueless?
The rich already pay more than their share.
The people not paying their share are the 42% of Americans who DO NOT PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAX.
How is that for fair?

I just have to say: anyone in that income bracket who is going to be seriously hurt by a 4.6% tax hike needs to learn to manage their money better.

It’s no wonder Obama supporters are happy.
Clueless college kids that don’t pay taxes, more interested in being for the cool black president–the ambitious graduates are screwed.
Many of his supporters aren’t required to pay taxes and are waiting for handouts.
And the megarich like his Hollywood buddies won’t miss the money–they just want liberal control over America.

I hate president Obama.

Poor form critizing Obama when he is so wildly popular. A vast majority of the American people are sick of hearing about tax cuts and really do not care if wealthy individuals and businesses have to pay a little extra.

I think a lot of people who post here fall into this category:
“A liberal is someone who feels a debt to his fellow man, a debt which he plans to repay with someone else’s money.”

To those morons who are excited about the 250K+ earners paying more, and who say that the rich don’t pay enough in taxes. Do some investigating. The top 1% of eaners pay 20% of the taxes. Do you think that is fair?
We’ll see how fair you think it is when those making 250K+, who are coincidentally the people who buy & large own & run small businesses, stop hiring people, stop making expenditures, and generally pull back on growth initiatives because they can’t afford to under an Obama plan.
At that point, the economy will have been in the toilet for around 3 years, and Obama will have one hell of a hard time getting re-elected. This whole “blame it on Bush” mantra will only resonate for about a year at most. After that, it’s Obama’s economy.

Christian wrote: “Well… it’s about time the rich start carrying the burden that the middle class have carried all this time.”
According to the latest IRS statistics (2006), the top 5% of the nation’s wage earners–those making over $153,542–accounted for 60.14% of the total federal income tax revenue. Unfortunately the IRS did not break down their statistics to reflect how many workers are making at least $250,000. However, since the top 1% of the nation’s wage earners–those making over $388,806–accounted for 39.89% of the total federal income tax revenues, we can estimate that those making at least $250,000 account for approximately 50% of the total federal income tax revenue. The bottom 50% of the nation’s wage earners–those making under $31,987–accounted for only 2.99% of the total federal income tax revenue, with the bottom 40% not paying any federal income tax.
So now those making at least $250,000 are expected to have their share of the total tax revenues raised to possibly 55%, while the bottom 50% of the nation’s wage earners will likely see their federal income tax burden lowered to ZERO!!

I was not born “rich”. I grew up in a rural area, one of six children. I went to college on scholarship and loans. I worked two part-time jobs and one full time job in the summer to make enough for books and spending. I worked part-time during the school year. Last year, last year (2008) after 25 years of busting my butt working long hours and taking risks, I finally pulled in just over $250,000. Thanks, Obama, for the first time in my life I am questioning whether all the time and energy was worth it. And now, I hear people say that I should pay more because I am lazy, LAZY! What the heck is wrong with some of you?

The truth is, much of the wealth in this country is held by the same families as it has been for a number of generations. I understand there are those people out there who started from poor families and had to get all Republican and “pull themselves up by their bootstraps”, but it’s definitely not the majority. So acting as though being born rich is the same thing as earning that money (and if you were able to go to private schools, get an Ivy League education, and then start your own company or take over the family company thanks to a huge source of money and collateral that 95% of the country just was too stupid to be born into, that is still not “earning” the money the way you want us poor, middle and lower class Americans to “earn” such luxuries as food, healthcare, and a decent standard of living) just does not make any sense. I know that many richer Americans contribute to charity and this is often enough to ease your conscience, but come on…should someone who brings in eight times the average worker’s salary not pay at least their equal share of taxes, percentage wise? Even looking at this inevitable increase in the rich overclass’s responsibility to the country and their fellow citizens, I still want to get ahead in life and hopefully provide my future children with a better standard of living than I can currently provide myself, even if I have to pay some extra taxes at that point. And one more thing, I just can’t help it…people should live within their means, and if you have a minimum wage job, you don’t need a new car or house….fine, I can see that, but nobody with a minimum wage job is probably thinking of a new car or house. Luckily, after two years of service to my current company, where I’ve brought in over twice my sales goal every year, I’ve finally managed to get hired full time (was a temp, those damn taxes again) and to rise to the prestigious hourly wage of $9.75 an hour, so this is all just a distant memory (add sarcasm there), but I do seem to recall that I was more worried about paying for gasoline, heating, food, and every once in awhile wanted to treat myself to the outrageous luxury of a movie night *gasp*, and a new car and house were dreams for the future when people actually get what they deserve. And if you tell me that someone who goes to work and puts in 40 hours a week doesn’t deserve a warm, safe home and the ability to feed and care for themselves because they can’t afford it, I hope you’ve removed all the mirrors from your home, because I don’t know how you can look yourself in the eye.

People without money need to get up off their asses and work for it. Stop spending it on things you don’t NEED. You NEED food, you Need shelter. You don’t need an Ipod, or a laptop or a new car. Yeah, those things make life nice, but until you can a ford them you should not buy them. I don’t know how people got to where they are today. poor education of finances (just look at CC debt) It is how we got where we are today in terms of lenders. Instead of saving up a reasonable amount, we just bought on credit. I grew up poor but my parents worked hard and now make more that 250,000 a year. Course, they payed for my college and my brothers, so that we can get ahead as well. I have done the water in the milk thing… Hell, look into powdered milk, its even cheaper! Now I have graduated and I can’t even afford a TV, but you know what, I’m not going to buy one on credit. Newlywed and working hard, but that is the difference. I don’t expect handouts. I know to get where I am going- I have to work at it. No one is going to give me anything.

Okay. Here’s how it works. My husband owns a business with a partner and they have it registered as an S-Corp. So, at tax time, no matter what our personal income is, the business profits run through our personal taxes. There are two reasons for the S-Corp filing – legal protection for the families if the business is sued and filing taxes personally is a small savings.
Let’s say my family’s income is $75K/year, but the business saw a big year profit-wise and my husband’s share of the profit was $350K, all but his salary ($75K) was rolled back into the business for the rainy day fund. We like to call it the Obama Day Fund, but I digress. We are personally responsible for paying taxes on the $350K, which jumps us to the top tax bracket, losing all child credits AND throwing us to the AMT wolves, despite the fact that our personal income was $75K.
This is the woes of small businesses. The taxes come from somewhere and this MASSIVE tax bill means that we won’t have the money to hire another employee when the economy picks up. We will also have to ask our employees to pick up more of their health insurance premiums and we won’t be contributing to the company’s 401K plan because so much of our rainy day fund is getting eaten by the Feds.
We employ quite a few families in our area, so this is a real hit. Luckily, we take a small salary compared to what we could take to keep the business solvent and prepared for bad times, which this qualifies for. We’ve been carrying our core employees for two and a half months now with no income for the business because we believe in loyalty for loyalty. They are great employees and we will employ them for as long as feasible in this economic climate.
These tax issues have huge implications for those of us who employ you. Think hard about what you want for when you say “tax the rich”, because people like me are who you are talking about for the most part.

Ambn: I get absolutely incensed when people insinuate that everyone asking for or needing help is a slacker. My two sons are very hard workers, paying their mortgages and other bills, raising families. Both are now laid-off from CAT. They HAVE to accept unemployment dollars. Would they much rather be working? Absolutely. Not everyone getting help is a slacker, and you are wrong to plant that seed.

bailey: my post to anbn applies to you as well. Stop portraying everyone getting help as a slacker.

This is not rocket science. The only fair tax is an income tax. The more you make, the more you pay. Simple.

Has anyone actually gone back and read this thread? My God ! What has happened to America?
For the Obama supporters….this is a capitalist society. Every one has the same opportunity to advance. If you choose to act like a fool and not take advantage of the education that is offered to all, then yes, your children might go hungry and they have to live with your stupid decicions. sorry, but that is the way it all works out.
The Tax increases are STEALING. They will acoomplish nothing in the long run but more troubled times. Do any of you Obama supporters remember the Jimmy Carter days? 20 % inflation rates……..10 % unemployment and total embarassment on the world scene. It was a terrible time and I don’t want to go through it again.
WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER WELFARE STATE ! Any problems found in the healthcare system are a direct link to our government getting involved. The current economic situation is directly linked to FANNIE MAE and FREDDY MAC. And healthcare is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right. Driving is a PRIVLEDGE; not a right; a new car is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right; a new home is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right.
For you universal healthcare people, try to think about going to your local motor vehicle admistration for tags and drivers license……….always a pain in the butt dealing with stupid people. This is what your government run healthcare is going to be like. If you think that is not correct, go to any VA hospital and you will see waste, fraud, and almost a total lack of providing healthcare. That is what you have to look forward to.
People who own businesses that will be affected by Obama’s socialist agenda will simply fire a couple of workers and use the money for his money grab. This is simply business…….and we are going to get it in the end

Oh yea, one last observation.
I guess the Democratic party is made up of all poor Americans and there are so many of them that is the reason that The President was elected. Or was it the black vote that was never there before( I hate to tell you that if it was not there before it is there now and it is more than likly here to stay).
It is pathetic to hear well of Americans bellow ruderick like Rush Limbaugh (man by his daily statements I think he might go back to perscription pills to aid in his comfort). The fact is that there are many rich American Democrats and they provided the support for the electon of the President, That coupled with the help of the “poor” Americans vote got the job done.
Republicans just can’t get over it.
They can’t even get someone from the Senate to give the Republican response. They have to go to a Govenor to get the job done. And would they of put a Black American in a prominant post prior to this election? Well they have now. Rich Americans get over it and start helping America like you should.

Maybe we could ask some of Obama’s cabinet members how to evade some of these taxes.

I urge you all the read an article called “The 2% illusion” in the Wall Street Journal today.
Mr. Obama is very good at portraying his agenda as nothing more than center-left pragmatism. But pragmatists don’t ignore the data. And the reality is that the only way to pay for Mr. Obama’s ambitions is to reach ever deeper into the pockets of the American middle class.

Ashley: yes, the new cabinet members could get advice from the outgoing criminals Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Libby.

The best legal job in America.
Living in California and growing Pot to sell to Co-op’s. Pot is sold for $3200 a pound. A two car garage can produce $20,000 dollars a month Tax free.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

I find it hard to believe that this increase in taxes for the wealthy is going to be so large that they are left with nothing to spend. And it is not so much a tax increase as it is a decrease in the amount those tax payers can deduct. So a person in the 33% bracket can only deduct the same amount as a person in the 28% bracket that had the same itemized deductions total.
And as for small businesses where people claim their business income on their personal taxes- wouldnt you have to pay taxes on your business income regardless? Is this really going to cause your taxes to go up so dramatically that your business will fail and you will be forced to lay people off? Yes, it will be hard, but we all have to pitch in and do what we are reasonably capable of doing.
Look, the fact of the matter is that we need to fix some major things in this country and that is going to take money. Plain and simple. If this is not the solution that some of you want, then what would be an acceptable solution? Doing nothing? Allowing millions of people in our country to go without health insurance? Allowing the wealthiest to get wealthier while the poor get poorer?
For those of you that argue these increases will eventually hurt the middle-class anyway- if we don’t do something there won’t be much of a middle class left so I guess that won’t really matter will it?

Welcome back, estate tax. I always thought you were a good idea.

William J. LePetomane wrote: “The only fair tax is an income tax. The more you make, the more you pay. Simple.”
WRONG! That is not a “fair” tax unless everyone pays the same tax rate. The current progressive tax just punishes those who are successful. The real fair tax is the Fair Tax Act. The more you BUY the more you PAY!!

I take issue with defining couples earning over $250K a year as rich, especially in high cost areas like the SF Bay Area. I also contend that Obama is taking hard earned money away from those couples that would otherwise spend or invest it and is definately hurting the economy. My wife and I were ready to start renovating our kitchen, but we waited to make our decision until after the election because we are just getting by (21 year old car and everything is broken or falling apart in our kitchen – live here and call us rich Pres. Obama). I have since put our kitchen on permanent hold because I know our new President will raise my taxes. Bottom line, construction workers and product manufactures have lost probably $35K of business and my wife and I have a kitchen with a broken dishwasher, broken microwave, energy inefficient windows, and cabinets that are falling apart.

The so-called Fair Tax, which is just a sales tax, is oppressive. I can more easily afford a gallon of milk than someone making minimum wage, yet we both have to pay the same tax.

After reading comments here (see Cheryl and Ginger), I certainly understand why people were fooled by Obama’s populist rhetoric. Yes, small businesses file as S-Corps for two reasons: the legal protection and the progressive tax rate of filing personally rather than the flat 35% corporate tax that is 2nd highest in the world.
Here’s the thing, when you tax the people that produce things in this world – product, services and jobs, you get less of them, so the cost is higher. Plus you lose a host of things you don’t notice these businesses supporting – donations to local charities, libraries, athletic little leagues, scholarships, etc. I have never seen a public employee union sponsor a baseball team or send money to the local food pantry. It’s the “rich” supporting these things and when they have less money, these programs will have less donations.
I’m really sick of this class garbage. Some of the nicest, most generous people with both time and money can be considered “rich” – they are the cornerstone of our small community and all charitable donations come from them.

I think it is great to tax the rich! Nothing will make me feel better than seeing Alec Baldwin actually MOVE to France to protect his money. Picture the ACLU lawyers standing at traffic intersections with “Will Sue for Food” signs.

What is “unfair” about individuals paying the same tax rate?

Sick of BO’s BS
Brilliant. Best explanation I’ve read.

Ah, class warfare, such an effective political weapon.
I think a good study would be to look at the most “progressive” social experiements of the last 100 years, the former Soviet Union. If you look at them today, they abandoned the Carl Marx progressive tax and adopted various forms of flat tax. Go look it up and ask yourself this question. If Eastern Europe has already gone down that road and it led to failure, why do we think we can turn it into a different result? The astonishing thing about “progressives” is they totally ignore historical data on the very social designs they support, believing in some dillusion that somehow they can make it work where all others have failed.
Ancient Greeks and even the Romans knew the follies of democracy. They knew that once the people figured out that they could vote themselves the public treasury, democracy would fail. Our founding fathers knew this as well. Unfortunately, we have twisted their words to fit the new world order of Carl Marx.
It’s unfortunate but maybe prudent to believe now that we are headed toward the same path of colapse that the former soviet union experienced. It may take years, but once these entitlements are dished out, taking them back will be wildly unpopular and likely impossible in a democratic political system.

Chew on this if you want universal health care.
Those countries that have this also enjoy the following:
-Chronic 10% unemployment
-Chronic up to 70% tax rate, on everyone (even if it started lower)
- An inability to afford to defend itself, which is why they call us, now who will they, OR who will WE call?
Remember when Europe could not deal with Yugoslavia on it’s own and Clinton had to come in and deal with it, even though he screwed it up by not planning for the thousands of refugees, or the peace.
Remember Gulf War 1 when Sadaam lined his soldiers up to overtake Kuwait? They called us. Now with all the hijacked vessels in waters in the mideast who do you supposed they called on to help, you guessed it us.
After we start these programs who will we call when Cuba, China, Venezuela and so on all line up on our borders. We certainly won’t have a military with enough where with all to do it. You know that we will have no one to call on and since we won’t be able to afford to send billions in support to Europe, Africa, South America and so on, they won’t care about helping.
Yeah we are heading down a road of permanent US destruction.

They make alot, but they do pay quite a few taxes too.
based on IRS data for 2006, the most recent year that such tax data are available and a good year for the economy and “the wealthiest 2 percent”:
* Roughly 3.8 million filers had adjusted gross incomes above $200,000 in 2006 (that’s about 7 percent of all returns; the data aren’t broken down at the $250,000 point).
* These people paid about $522 billion in income taxes, or roughly 62 percent of all federal individual income receipts.
* The richest 1 percent — about 1.65 million filers making above $388,806 — paid some $408 billion, or 39.9 percent of all income tax revenues, while earning about 22 percent of all reported U.S. income.

Intersting info from Wallstreet Journal op-ed: (I know we can’t trust “them”, but they tend to be correct about these things)
A tax policy that confiscated 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning over $500,000 in 2006 would only have given Congress an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue. That’s less than half the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion and looks tiny compared to the more than $4 trillion Congress will spend in fiscal 2010. Even taking every taxable “dime” of everyone earning more than $75,000 in 2006 would have barely yielded enough to cover that $4 trillion.

Remember when Teresa Heinz-Kerry’s $5mil/year income only garnered a 12% tax? That’s how Washington taxes the rich. A flat tax would solve that problem.

It’s called “shared sacrifice”
It’s time for the 1% who own 38% of all of the wealth in this country to pay their fair share of taxes.
After all, they are the ones who have benefited most the last eight years from failed Republican polices that created this crisis.

Reb,
And their fare share would be the same 15 or 18% you pay of your income. Fair is fair.

REB, they appear to pay a fair share of taxes already. Perhaps you would share with us what you believe is fair?
The Tax Foundation tells us that :
In 2006, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 39.9 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.1 percent of adjusted gross income, both of which are significantly higher than 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

“It’s called “shared sacrifice”
Actually thats called communism.
“It’s time for the 1% who own 38% of all of the wealth in this country to pay their fair share of taxes.”
I guess that depends on your definition of “fair”, which I’m sure differ’s wildly from the actual definition of the word itself. Fairness isn’t the appropriat word to use based on how you use it. The word you are looking for but most likely do not want to use is their “progressive” share. They have so much, they must be able to absorb more burden is your arguement. But it has absolutely nothing to do with “fairness” as an analytical term.
“After all, they are the ones who have benefited most the last eight years from failed Republican polices that created this crisis.”
If you are talking about the mortgage crisis, you should search for a New York Times article titled – “Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending”.

my family (me, my husband and our daughter) came to US twelve years ago as a refugees with $800 and started over from the scratch. Last year our join income was $250,000 – we both work full time. Our daughter is a full time student. She is waiting tables to pay for her car, insurance, phone etc. We live in reasonable size townhouse that we plan to payoff in 7 years. And Obama tells me that we are rich and we have to help that stupid and greedy idiot that bought house he could not afford or lazy moron that lives off on welfare and never worked in his life? guess what – you have to work hard to move up. That is the only way.

James…well, I guess it won’t work then. Oh well, I’m no better than the presidents (yes, that’s plural) when it comes to planning out taxes. Of course, many millionaires achieve that status through other means than education/IQ (athletes, movie stars, and maybe a few CEOs), so it might have some merit. Sadly, our technological advances would obviously come to an end, since the smart ones would quit….wait a minute, I don’t think those scientists make more than a million… Alright, I admit I may have been poking fun, but come on guys. Do you not realize that poverty is actually a cycle in this country and around the world? You (by you, I don’t mean anyone in particular, I mean whoever is disagreeing with me, you’re obviously wrong…) want to make claims about being fair, but it’s not fair that one child be given all the opportunities in the world while another is born into a world of poverty, violence, and malnutrition. Do you actually believe that children should suffer for the “laziness” of their parents, who were likely born into the same, exact cycle? From these responses, it’s obvious that the “rich” think the “poor” are supporting Obama and these taxes out of envy, but you need to understand that poor people didn’t just start wanting food, health, and happiness with Obama’s inauguration. And anyone who wants to use the word revolution needs to remember that it isn’t usually the rich who initiate or benefit from it, and I’m basing that on history, not a gut feeling.

We need to go to a flat income tax, preferably a national sales tax, and do away with this whole complicated mess that our tax system has become.

This is our fault…we have raised a generation of children who ALL have to have a tropy, All have to be invited to the party…we teach them they have to share their toys and they grow up to be adults who think they are entitled to things that don’t belong to them, in this case other peoples money. They think that they have graced the earth with their presence and deserve everything if they worked for it or not.
Self entitled spoiled whiney brats, get off your#### and make your own life better quit stealing it from others who have already done so.

People who make 6 figures a year are simply going to do what my family did..DUMB DOWN THEIR INCOME…When we realize that Obama was going to be President Obama….we sold all our stock, turned out to be a very good thing considering, to avoid capital gains and dividend tax increases…refused to work over-time hours and, in my case, cut back to part-time work…You really don’t believe that upper-middle class is going to support that side of society who plan to live off of the government dole do you??? Multiply my family times thousands and thousands of others who feel the same way….

Jessica,
I don’t think that you have experienced much life outside the United States as your perspective on poverty tends to merge the idea of poverty with the reality of the US when, perspective wise, they are unequal.
I was in the military and deployed to an area that was truely poverty. Not like the poor side of town you see in our cities, I’m talking real poverty. No waste management so they burned their trash in the yard, no electricity or running water. Their fresh food was a live animal tied to a stake in the yard because they had no refigeration. They also had poor security (hence why we were there helping) which discouraged any kind of investment in the area. When I think of poverty, I think of that. That is not the case in the US.
And that kind of abject poverty is endemic because there are no opportunites around them to change it. In this nation, the image of poverty is far far different. Those included below the poverty line in the US have DVD players, a car, and in some cases 2 cars. So the arguement put forth must first draw perspective to much higher income examples in order to garner the sympathy for entitlement programs.
But there is no invisible force keeping them from clawing out of that situation. If that were true, then no one would turn thier situation around but we know that is not the case in this country. My family came from farmers. My father worked minimum wage jobs but eventually started his own business and experienced ups and downs, sucess and failure, but he kept working at it. Now, years later, he is the group that somehow hasn’t paid his fair share to society according to your descriptions. So thus, fairness has nothing to do with it. Perspective and progressive society oppression does.

Here is something else to think about:
The really rich will not see their taxes go up because their income is mostly taxed at a capital gains rate, or not at all.
They have the loopholes, such as sending money offshore therefore paying no taxes on the income, or taking stock options for salary, taxed at the lower capital gains rate.
Obama is going after the over 250K workers not the plane flying, tax dodging really rich folk. They will not see their taxes go up at all. You know people like the Kennedy’s with most of their money in the Caymans, or Bill Clinton with most of their money offshore and untaxed, while they hypocritacally proclaim that they and us should pay more taxes. This type of income is not taxed for the usual FICA/Social Security Tax either.
The upper middle-class, those that work for their over 250k will bear the burden of these tax increases, not the true rich.
The ignorance of the masses on the true nature of the tax system is apalling. The class warfare argument is lies and offensive.
Obama is protecting the truly rich, or he would address those inequities first.

samhiguchi- I think I love you.
Don’t forget the Zero Tolerance policies, where human judgment is thrown out the window, and doing things like bringing a butter knife to school is just as bad as bringing a switch blade.
You are special
Everyone is special

“It’s funny to watch the comparisons of Karl Marx, have you read “Theories of Surplus Value” Good study of the Value of the work produced by the working class being used by the ruling class to oppress the working class.”
Karl Marx wrote his theories at the beginning of the industrial revolution, when there truely was worker oppression. To say that is the case today can only be done by stuffing your head in 1860 and seeing the world through that lens.
Plus, his theories have been tried, and tried, and tried, to what yield to society? Where are the shining examples of success born of Karl Marx theories?
Again, I point today to the flat tax by the veterans of Karl Marx theory, Russia and Eastern Europe. Are we a generation behind?

For those of you who think that tax increases are acceptable because they wll only hit “the other guy” I have some bad news for you. Under Comrade Obama’s scheme, my company, like so many other small firms, will not be able to simply absorb a massive tax increase. Rather than close up shop, it is our business plan to terminate some employees. We had a staff meeting onthis, and my employees made an interesting demand…they asked, in the spirit of fairness, that the first workers to be fired should be people who voted for Obama. That is our plan.
As for the rest of you, we will be required to raise retail prices in order to offset the tax increase, so the “poor” will effectively pay the new tax.
For the terminally naive out there…Obama’s “tax reduction” for the “lower 95% will be more than offset by increases in Medicare and Social Security taxes. So for all of you obama-slobberers out there , here is the bottom line: (1) Fewer jobs (2) higher prices, (3) higher net payroll tax deductions and a decline in the quality and availability of health care due to socialized medicine.
This is what happens whenthe terminally stupid vote for a slick politician who promises them something for nothing.
By the way…we have not even mentioned obama’s “carbon caps” or his proposed $12 per gal retail price for gasoline. If you have a job, plan on walking to work with the other peasants.

BO BS:
last time I checked there were only 2.2 million people that make over $250k per year. Thats hardly “the middle” considering there are 300 million americans.
actually shame on all of us for not paying more taxes as it is (not that i enjoy or like paying one penny of tax) – we should have all had our taxes raised to 50% across the board the day that we allowed our government to borrow one cent of money from a foreign country or dip into social security funds to spend more than it took in until it was paid back fully. Especially egregious is that we have all not been forced to pay significantly higher taxes the second we stepped foot into Afghanistan and Iraq. Although I’m sure if we were asked to sacrifice by paying higher taxes as a result of a war we were involved in – our government might actually find that we would hold its feet to the fire and demand a resolution before thousands of our soldiers were killed and our national coffers (much of which are being paid for on credit) were dumped into the bank accounts of a few well connected war profiteers. I consider higher taxes during wartime the very basic level of responsibility. And to think that our taxes were lowered under Bush – particularly for those making over $250k per year.
shame on us all for not demanding a more responsible government, and turning a collective blind eye to an obviously irresponsible greed driven time. Like it or not, our current economic crisis is the result of this irresponsibility, and if Obama’s plan to increase taxes on only those making over $250k per year is able to generate enough additional revenue to provide the basic needs for the majority of the population to be able to become re-involved in the economy and thus kick-start it again – then I say we are all lucky. Because as the situation gets worse, the sliding scale of people that will be “asked” to pay more taxes will continue to slide further and further down into larger and larger pools of the population, until theoretically you need to get blood from a stone in order to stay a float.
Lets all look at the big picture here folks and stop thinking in terms of our own little individual household. Obama was elected to manage the concerns and well-being of 300 million people, most of whom overwhelmingly are struggling during this economic crisis. For those people who make over $250k per year and cannot afford any additional taxes, its time for you to take a responsible look at your current situation and face the fact that you are going to be stung by the economic crisis created by irresponsibility and greed just like the majority of the population, and be grateful if its only more tax dollars that is your sacrifice.

for Kendric, and others.
The united states is without question the most opinionated country on this planet. Included with these opinions are the most misinformed society on the planet. Which does act as a bonus for a structured democratic system; it is in the interest of the government to have many small quarrels amongst the population rather than a large revolt against a government practices.
1) Health Care – Germany has the oldest and most successful health care system in the world. It has had only change in over 100 years.
2) The archaic belief that complete unified health-care benefits a society is ludicrous directly due to the magnitude of cost, responsibility to patients, and man power required.
3) Bio-Genetic advancements with the aid of technological advancement in Nano-Systems will determine health care in the the next century, contrary to a temporary belief that this or any other new administration will dictate a final outcome.
4) Taxes by default are increased every decade. What is ignored repeatedly is inflation or deflation and how that applies to wage earner. Tax percentage statistics are often wrong and are grossly generalized so the wage earner has a broad picture of their net annual income. The generalized statistic does not account for a frugal wage earner who does take the time to understand tax responsibility or income expenditures throughout the year.
5. Those who live in a free society, such as the USA, and have not prospered have done so by their own hand and specifically by their own choices in life. It has very little to do with mental aptitude, but more to do with perseverance and discipline. A successive inviolability concern of federal taxes is not due to any democratic appointed administration. Plainly, if the order is to weakly find fault, rather than fulfill a civil right, then accept direction from the betters with nobility.

Those making $200,000 and more equal 7% of number of income tax filers.
These 7% of the income tax filers paid 62% of all federal income taxes.
The richest 1% — about 1.65 million filers making above $388,806 — paid some $408 billion, or 39.9% of all income tax revenues, while earning about 22% of all reported U.S. income.
Those making under approximately $40,000 a year paid 0, none, income tax.
Let’s have a flat tax where everyone pays income taxes.
No matter how small the amount is, just out of principle, every U.S. citizen should pay income taxes.

The ’09 budget spends $10,000 for every family. Well, that’s what the headline says.
We all know that 42% of Americans don’t pay any federal income tax whatsoever.
So the number for those of us paying taxes is actually much, much higher than $10,000
————————————–
Peach ,
I paid in more 10K last year!
Remember, that is ONLY income tax! look around you and see just how many other taxes you pay.
State Income Taxes
Property Taxes
Sales Taxes
Gas Tax – Both Federal & State
Tolls on roads if you live in areas that them.
I am sure people can come up with many more.
The point is we are constantly being told by politicians from both parties that things like the gas taxes & tolls will pay for road repair. So if that is true, then why are the roads in so bad a state of disrepair that we need to have an enormous federal expenditure for infrastructure. (The federal gov’t already has a budget for maintaining the Interstate system.)
The answers are simple, the money never goes to what the politicians say it will go to. That is why it will be interesting to watch the Obama administrations “transparency” and “accountability”.

@ Skool is Kool.
Regarding the German health care system.
I live in Germany, I am a part of the system.
It is nearly bankrupt. Everyone complains about the service. Doctors are underpaid and over worked.
People think the German health care is free.
We pay approximately 2,500 Euro ($3,200) a year for health insurance. It is mandatory.
Just recently they started a new program where one has to pay an extra 10 Euro ($12.50) cash just to visit the doctor each quarter.

“Skool is Cool:1) Health Care – Germany has the oldest and most successful health care system in the world. It has had only change in over 100 years.
Are you kidding? Germany a running decades long, 10% unemployment rate because in order to pay for their health care system their income taxes are as much as 70%, and like it or not, higher taxes lead to unemployment. Their economy has long been in turmoil because this system makes it impossible to climb out of any difficulties. This is our future now.
In addition they, as well as other Universal Health Care countries such as Canada, have an active “Health Care Tourism” industry.
That is a system for the rich. Those that don’t want to wait for their small piece of rationed health care travel to other countries and simply pay for their health care.
UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE DOES NOT WORK WELL ANYWHERE.
You remember the Cuban hospital glorified in the highly inaccurate movie “Sicko”. That was not a hospital for Cubans, it was a moneymaker that was part of the health care tourism. They treated only those who could pay hard cash upfront. They also treated the cuban leadership, but certainly not the cuban population who have abysmal health care and have been cited by human rights groups as such.

Jessica,
No society has appropriate pay for their their perspective efforts. A soldier in Iraq putting his life on the line makes somewhere around 25k a year (roughly). Is his sacrifice being away from familiy, living in the shade of a tank, deserving of more than 25k a year? Absolutely, but that’s not what he’s there for. People don’t become police, fire, or soldiers to be rich. They do it for the duty. If they don’t, then they weren’t very smart.
If your goal in life is to make money, you have to go out and work for it, not just accept your situation and expect someone else to make those decisions for you, i.e. the government. I chose to serve my country, I did not expect more pay for what I did. It wasn’t the pay I joined for. In my early days, I certainly didn’t expect the rich to pay for me in some way. Years later, I have begun to work for myself and my family, doing what I can to bring financial stability for us. No where, no way, did I look to the government to help me do that.
Here is the fundamental difference. It isn’t about whos rich or poor, who pays more taxes or who doesn’t, its about who is responsible for your future and well being? You?… or the government? I chose myself… others expect it from the government. Thats the real difference here.

Jessica: I have a hard time caring. I’m not a supporter of big government, but it’s obvious that the “haves” will never consider the needs of the “have-nots” without it. And why should you consider our needs?
Spare me. Those making over 250K pay 35% federal tax, 7.5% Social Security, and then the state income tax, which brings the total to 48% give or take depending what state you live in. Obama will raise that another 9%+ within two years.
HOW is that selfish or inconsiderate.
This group does not reap any of the public handouts. This group does not get full standard deductions on their income taxes, not even mortgage interest, and if you make over 500K you get hit with the alternative minimum tax which brings your tax rate up another chunk.
The question you should ask yourself is how you make so little money with your college education, unless by choice. Or is that the total househould income? Do you work full time for that?
By the way we worked our way up from absolutely nothing, paid student loans, and so on. Don’t make the mistake of presuming someone got a lift up from someone else if they are successful. Anyone who chooses to apply themselves can do the same, or certainly have an income greater than 17K barring some special needs circumstance.
So you can call it selfish but I call your position greedy and lazy and enough is enough.

Lots of Tea Party Protests across the nation.

“my company, like so many other small firms, will not be able to simply absorb a massive tax increase. Rather than close up shop, it is our business plan to terminate some employees.”
Markm,
Be careful, you would not want to be accused of being a right wing nut out here.
The last thing the liberals want is for real world decisions to get in the way of their great & colorful rhetoric!

“The fact is that very few people are actually financially rewarded for “hard work”. Most have it either handed to them, inherited, or acquire it through means of irresponsibility, greed, and dishonesty.”
Well, i’ll be the first to fire at this one. What I have, I earned!!!! Noone gave me anything!!!
I have no idea where this line of blabber came from. Most people in this country are indeed “rewarded” (i guess that is your term for being paid) for the work they do. Now they may feel they are not being paid as much as they believe they are worth, but they are being paid!
Contrary to the great liberal myth, Most people work for what they have. If they are fortunate and circumstances present the opportunity to move upward, it is not always because of something “evil”! This is classic liberal class warfare!

I love the way BHO lectures us about personal responsibility–he blames banks and Bush for the housing problem.
But no mention of his own responsibility as he cheered on those thugs in ACORN.
ACORN demanded that everyone get a loan for a house even when they couldn’t afford it.
We know the truth Obama even though many will not admit it. We will pay for those loans.

America is entering a generation of young people that feel entitled–they want something for nothing.
And they feel they deserve it.
Obama is fueling this, urging this–using his experience as a radical community organizer. The only steady job he ever had.

mike_c
i’m not denigrating your work ethic or anyone elses. the fact of the matter is that i am talking purely about compensation. please don’t delude yourself into believing that people over all are compensated purely in relation to how “hard” they work. i think its safe to say that cats out of the bag. i can show you people that work 10 hour days, 7 days a week for $20k – $30k a year. if it was as simple as hard work, do you really think in a free market economy the vast majority of our population would chose to live at or near the poverty level? that right wing propoganda ship has sailed my friend. human beings want to work and be productive. and as americans we expect our government to provide us with a viable playing field in which to do so. at this point, due to complete lack of leadership and udder fiscal irresponsibility over the past 8 years, we are in an economic crisis that requires the sacrifice of those who most benefited from this unrealistic and irresponsible prosperity to correct the playing field so that you and everyone else to get back to hard work in a more fair and balanced way.

kr:
you, your doctor, your dad, your brother all work long “hard” hours for compensation. i imagine that if the people that you work for can no longer afford your services because they have lost there job, then you may find yourself working less hours for less compensation. and i don’t care if you sell million dollar telescopes to the wealthy, thus believing that you are somehow immune from the massive unemployment of the masses. that wealthy person you sell that telescope to might make there money from someone down the line, or if not the person they make money from might, and so on and so on….thats how our economy works. just because you have “worked hard” or by whatever means or standard you choose to place behind your acquisition of wealth – do not lose sight that it all only works for you, your doctor, your dad, and your brother if the vast majority (which currently makes substantially less than $250k per year) is able to participate. If you lose the masses, then you might find yourself “working hard” and not seeing anything in return….and maybe, just maybe, you’ll look to your government and expect them to provide you with a playing field in which your “hard work” will be valued and fairly compensated.

” can show you people that work 10 hour days, 7 days a week for $20k – $30k a year.”
We hired an electrician to come in and install some lights in our home. He fits that bill. He’s high school educated and learned on the job, got a certification. But what your saying is the electical engineer at GE should, through the governement, have income taken from him to pay for programs that benefit the electrician.
So why should the electrician get his engineering degree and work at GE? What’s his motivation?
The more government provides you, the less you see it necessary to improve your situation. It’s human nature to take the path of least resistance, some say intelligence. What your asking people who made their money is to sacrifice their lifes successes, so why succeed? Why not be content with government provided entitlements, skip 4 years of studying in college, and just work through minimum achievment and still get rewarded? The long term effects of that are still being struggled with in the former Soviet Union.
Some people in life will fail and be content, others will use it to motivate them to achieve success. Which are you?

“If you lose the masses, then you might find yourself “working hard” and not seeing anything in return”
And if you lose the wealthy, you will also find no wealth to be reaped. Economies have a symbiotic relationship between wage earners and wage givers. They are interdependent upon each other. You cannot have jobs without wealth that is supplying funds to those jobs. To think that you can subtract from one or the other, and not affect each other is silliness. You claim without workers, there would be no wealth, but you do not admit that without wealth, there would be no work. Reality is both have to exist their prosperity is dependent on each other.

“I’d rather trust the government with my money than a business owner in this day and age.”
Spoken by someone who could not possibly have worked in government. Only a politician could convince someone to put their trust in the most innefficient entity on the planet.

Bridget–The healthcare plan offered at my job would cost $50/week, which doesn’t sound like much, but is a nice portion of my paycheck. Perhaps I need to shop around, but you have to admit that some people really can’t afford healthcare, even if I’m not the best example. And FYI–no cell phone here, though I may be the only twenty something without it.

“And anyone who wants to use the word revolution needs to remember that it isn’t usually the rich who initiate or benefit from it, and I’m basing that on history, not a gut feeling.”
Jessica – you do realize the country from which you are typing this message formed due to a revolution initiated by the merchant class?

P–Well, I’ll be damned. I did know that but wasn’t thinking about it when I wrote my comment. It blended in so nicely, sounded good, etc. And to go even further, it was over taxes, and those richies having to pay them without representation in Parliament. Of course, you have representation now, who ever heard of a poor politician? I can still call on the French Revolution for support though, what a relief…

All I know is where would the incentive be to become a doctor or Engineer or lawyer, if I am taxed more..it doesnt make sense to raise taxes on any class. Doesnt the top 5% pay 40% of the taxes now…what an awesome country we live in, Ron Paul had it right, flat tax for everyone

James,
I don’t care if life is or isn’t fair. That alone does not placate me a single iota that the idea of the Has’es giving more money by force of the non-existent Sixteenth Amendment to the Cannot Work, Will Not Works and pork barrel projects that are but an overpriced band-aid. Solutions are difficult as well as the medicine that the bankers and stock market will have to consume in order to change the status-quo. Even so, there will be major change and life will not be the same for at least a generation.
I could recommend several gold and silver analysts so you can save whatever little extra cash you may have into something REAL. By the time Obama can even get these new “taxes” into effect, hyperinflation will be incredible and voila! Everyone working will probably have to make $250,000/yr to enjoy the necessities of life. That’s what happens when Helicopter Ben runs the printing press into overdrive. His helicopter drop last year did come in handy though, but watch the numbers of choppers increase this and the next year!

James—You’re right…charitable giving should be optional. I agree 100%. And I haven’t studied this tax well enough to know that it won’t actually take successful people and effectively lower their station in life. The more I read this blog and comments from the more reasonable responders (you know who you are, but you probably don’t know if you aren’t..), the more I think $250K is too low, especially for household income. I think it should be much higher, and actually would love it if the taxing went towards very, very rich companies (such as Obama is proposing on oil companies, though I’m sure there’s a lot of gray there), and not individuals. I do take issue with the idea that this tax will eradicate any desire of the lower and middle classes to better their situation, however. There are many benefits to financial security beyond money and what you can buy with it. The biggest motivation for myself will be to have more free time. When I read about someone who is going to part time because they’ll otherwise breach that barrier, I have to admit I think they’re pretty lucky, narrow minded though it may seem to the person involved. And if you say that you love your job so much that it hurts you take decrease your hours, I’m sure there is some form of charitable activity that you can do related to your work. The truth is, everybody is being affected by this recession, and it has, to a degree, turned us into hoarders at all levels. Sure, people are going to buy things no matter what, but spending has slowed, as has charitable giving, and we’ll all have to be part of the recovery effort. For some, that will mean working on their budget so they’re not living above their means, for others it will undoubtedly mean more taxes.

1) I think Obama slipped a gear in defining “rich”. His 250K net will catch an awful lot of small business owners, and young professionals (doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants,…). Additionally, thre appears to be nothing built in to account for inflation.
2) It sounds nice to say the nation needs to invest in education. However, the nation has been investing heavily in education, and increasing government involvement. The effect has been a steady decline in the performance of American students relative to those elsewhere.
3) none of the things Obama proposes will grow jobs long term. If he wants to grow jobs, he needs to put money into productivity. Education, Medicare, mortgage relief, and Bank bail outs do nothing to put the US back on the track of being a net producer nation instead of a net consumer.
4) Most of his &^%$ is nothing more than a shell game– swapping jobs here for jobs there. Trimming back DoD acquisitions will bring government expenditures down– and put thousands out of work. money that would have gone to employees at Raytheon, or Boeing, or (insert vendor here) will instead divert to a contractor working on a school project in SOuth Carolina, or a bridge in Missouri, or (insert Obama project here)– but it doesn’t mean more jobs– just different ones–and the folks who occupy the unemployed rranks will be shifted, not reduced.
5) While everyone seems myopically fixated on the ecopnomy and/or global warming, potential catastrophys in food supply and defense policy are looming. Transfer of water rights from farms to urbanites means less food production. A huge trade deficit and large treasury interest by China means the US is no longer free to choose and execute foreign policy– upto and including defensive strategies….
The only wealth transfer that is happening under the Obama administration is from the US to China. By choosing not to address issues of productivity in favor of public pandering to further a socializing of everything personal– from the banks to doctors, all financed with bonds Obama wants to sell to China seals the deal. And what do the average Americans get out of this arrangement? Less choice, less opportunity,– all for a few hundred dollars of so-called tax relief.