By Caitlin Taylor

Feb 11, 2009 8:03am

The Note, 02/11/09: Fear Itself — A $3 trillion day, a bailout bust, as the president stokes fear to prod action

By RICK KLEIN We’re supposed to be afraid, President Obama tells us, but of what, exactly? -The stimulus isn’t feeling stimulative at the moment. -The Treasury Secretary doesn’t get the markets any more than he does the tax code. -As the stimulus bill sits in this great shining example of democracy knows as the conference committee, three Republican senators have more clout than the House speaker, the Senate majority leader, and maybe even the president. The politics of hope has become the politics of fear — a public that should be afraid of inaction, Republicans who should be afraid for their political futures, Democrats who should be afraid of spiraling costs, and Washington and Wall Street institutions that should be very afraid if the new president’s plans don’t get enacted, now. It will work for the president this week — the president remains on track to getting an $800 billion stimulus package, no small feat less than a month into his term. But the problems — economic and political — are gradually shifting to his ledger. (Remind us of who should be afraid again?) Has he been too nice in trying to get Republicans on board? “Well, I tell you what — you know, that accusation, I think, if I’m not mistaken, was leveled at me a couple years ago, and I’m going to be flying out on Air Force One in a little bit,” the president told ABC’s Terry Moran on “Nightline” Tuesday, with a laugh. “So, people shouldn’t underestimate the, the value of civility.” When asked if that’s a sign that nice guys don’t finish last after all, the president replied, “I haven’t so far.” Who’s afraid of Vice President Joe Biden? “In an interview in his White House office as the Senate passed its $838 billion rewrite of the package of tax cuts and spending programs designed to halt the economic falloff, Biden signaled that the administration may try again this week to make the bill more appealing to at least some in the GOP,” The Washington Post’s David Broder reports. “His remarks seemed to challenge the views of some liberal members of the House and commentators on the left who argue that President Obama has made too many concessions to the Republicans by limiting the size of the stimulus bill and allowing much of it to take the form of tax cuts.” “The House guys complain that you [in the administration] are rolling us,” Biden said. “We’re not rolling anyone. We’re looking to get 60 votes.” The White House’s sales theme Wednesday: transportation and infrastructure. The president takes his show to Springfield, Va., Wednesday, where he’ll be joined by Gov. Tim Kaine, D-Va., to highlight “the jobs that will be created by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and his commitment to making sure the American people know how their tax dollars will be spent,” per the White House. The vice president gets his turn to sell Wednesday, too, in Carlisle, Pa., and Harrisburg, alongside Gov. Ed Rendell, D-Pa. Is this playing nice? “President Obama likes to portray the battle over the economic stimulus package that passed the Senate on Tuesday as a stark choice between his approach and that of those who would ‘do nothing,’ ” Michael D. Shear and Anne E. Kornblut write in The Washington Post. “But in truth, few of those involved in the stimulus debate are suggesting that the government should not take action to aid the cratering economy. . . . But if Republicans express frustration about Obama’s rhetorical device, they need only look back to the man he succeeded for precedent. George W. Bush was proficient at setting up straw men when arguing for his policies, only to tear down the positions of those phantom opponents as irresponsible, unworkable or downright shameful in comparison with his own.” Slate’s John Dickerson: “Republicans during the last administration used to frame principled opposition to policy as ignorance of the problem the policy was supposed to solve. If you didn’t like the Patriot Act, then you were soft on terrorism. In the argument over the stimulus bill, Obama and his aides often characterize those who oppose it as narrow Washington thinkers who don’t know what’s really happening in the country.” Who’s afraid of open democracy? (Who remembers those Democratic promises of open conference committees?) “There will eventually be a bipartisan conference of lawmakers to reconcile the differing House and Senate versions of the stimulus bill, but the real decisions on how the $800 plus billion will be spent are being made late at night, behind closed doors,” per ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf. “And the White House, in the form of Rahm Emanuel, is playing a big role in hashing out the final stimulus package.” “Among the differences to be resolved were proposals in the House bill to subsidize private health coverage for the unemployed and to offer temporary Medicaid coverage for those who cannot retain private insurance. The Senate bill provides $10 billion less in subsidies and does not offer expanded Medicaid. The Senate cuts were likely to be part of the final bill,” The New York Times’ David Herszenhorn and Jeff Zeleny write. “Over all, the bills reflect differences of tens of billions of dollars in spending priorities.” Might a deal happen Wednesday? “I see some real possibilities,” Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, tells Politico’s David Rogers. Rogers: “Tax and appropriations staff were still working when the principals left Pelosi’s offices near 11:30 p.m. and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D., Mont.) said it is now ‘very possible” that an agreement could be reached Wednesday.’ ‘They’re trying to get what needs to get done,’ said Emanuel.” An item that may go: “Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski said she is worried that a tax break for new-car buyers could be watered down or eliminated from the huge stimulus measure that cleared another hurdle yesterday in Congress,” Paul West reports for the Baltimore Sun. “In a brief interview shortly before the Senate approved its version of President Barack Obama’s $800 billion spending and tax-cut plan, Mikulski expressed concern about the fate of the new-car tax break she authored, which could be worth $1,500 to the buyer of a $25,000 car.” Who’s afraid of sticker-shock? “On a single day filled with staggering sums, the Obama administration, Federal Reserve and Senate attacked the deepening economic crisis Tuesday with actions that could throw as much as $3 trillion more in government and private funds into the fight against frozen credit markets and rising joblessness,” per the AP’s David Espo. “Taken together, the events marked at least a political watershed if not an economic turning point — the day the three-week old administration and its congressional allies assumed full control of the struggle against the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression,” Espo writes. Who’s afraid of some partisanship? “The largely party-line votes in Congress on President Barack Obama’s stimulus package raise the political stakes for Democrats and Republicans over its success or failure,” Naftali Bendavid writes in The Wall Street Journal. “The gamble would seem to be bigger for Republicans, since most Americans currently support Mr. Obama and his efforts to push through the stimulus, as reflected in three polls released shortly before the president’s prime-time news conference Monday evening.” Who’s afraid of an electoral backlash? “Three weeks after being sworn in, President Barack Obama acknowledged in plain terms Tuesday that his prospects for winning a second term may depend on the whether he can revive the nation’s plummeting economy,” per Politico’s Jonathan Martin. Said Obama: “If stuff hasn’t worked, if people don’t feel like I’ve led the country in the right direction then you’ll have a new president.” The Washington Times’ Christina Bellantoni: “President Obama on Tuesday for the first time staked his fledgling presidency on pulling the country from its economic crisis, promising dispirited Floridians that his stimulus plan will produce tangible results such as jobs and tuition credits or he’ll be ousted from office in 2012.” Coming Wednesday: New ads from AFSCME and Americans United for Change, targeting House and Senate Republicans and highlighting a “second chance” to support the stimulus. The ads play off of House Republican Whip Eric Cantor’s quote to The Washington Post Monday, on “just saying no” to the Obama plan. “Call the Republican leadership. Tell them ‘no’ is not an option,” the ad says. Fear among those on the other side: “As one of the Republicans who helped ensure Senate passage of President Obama’s economic-stimulus legislation, Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter finds himself in a familiar place: conservatives’ doghouse,” Thomas Fitzgerald writes in the Philadelphia Inquirer. “Some in the Pennsylvania GOP are already murmuring about a conservative challenge to Specter, who has said he will run for reelection next year.” (But no national ad buys? The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder: “My Foghorn Leghorn Voice, I say I say I say I say again — where’s the other party’s outside ads? Why aren’t Republican donors paying for anti-stimulus ads?”) What are we supposed to like about this bill? “As President Obama seeks final passage of his economic stimulus bill, he is urging congressional negotiators not to succumb to ‘failed’ Republican suggestions that an economic rebound can come from tax cuts,” Michael Kranish writes in The Boston Globe. “But one of the biggest items in the stimulus bill passed by the Senate yesterday, and also in the version approved last month by the House, is a tax-cut proposal that Obama himself is insisting upon — and which one of his newly announced advisers doubts will work.” “Though he is offering the grimmest picture of the economy at these forums, Obama is doing it in freewheeling fashion. When a woman became emotional telling him she had no home, Obama shook her hand and leaned in to hug her. He promised to have his staff talk with her afterward,” Peter Nicholas writes in the Los Angeles Times. And who’s afraid of the Treasury secretary? “Earlier this week, President Obama promised that his treasury secretary, Tim Geithner, would offer, quote, ‘very clear and specific plans on how the administration intends to stabilize the financial system,’ ” ABC’s Jake Tapper reported on “Good Morning America” Wednesday. “But it’s not at all clear that Mr. Geithner achieved that goal.” “The initial assessment of the plan from the markets, lawmakers and economists was brutally negative, in large part because they expected more details,” The New York Times’ Edmund L. Andrews and Stephen Labaton write. “Basic questions about how the various parts of the program would work, especially those involving the unsellable mortgages that banks are holding and preventing home foreclosures, were left for another day. Some Wall Street experts criticized the plan for relying too heavily on the same vague solutions proposed by the Bush administration.” “The cost of this latest bailout effort by Treasury was much larger than most people were expecting. After months of numbingly large government bailouts, even $2 trillion had the ability to shock. In the minutes after Geithner’s speech, the Dow Jones industrial average fell about 3.5 percent,” ABC’s Matt Jaffe and Scott Mayerowitz report. “To put $2 trillion into perspective, consider this: That’s enough money to outright buy 8 million homes at $250,000 each.” “Wall Street gave the government’s long-awaited plan to rescue the financial system a resounding thumbs down Tuesday, providing another sign of the mounting frustration over the financial crisis,” USA Today’s Matt Krantz writes. “Wall Street gave a thumbs-down message to President Obama’s new $1 trillion bank bailout plan Tuesday, sending stocks into a nosedive. Obama’s response: Deal with it,” per the New York Daily News’ Michael McAuliff and David Saltonstall. “The financial rescue plan unveiled Tuesday offers important moves to spur consumer lending, experts said, but it fails to answer key questions about how it would attack fundamental causes of the deepening economic crisis,” McClatchy’s Kevin G. Hall reports. “Tim Geithner did a great job in painting the broad strokes of the problem and laying out general principles, but it was a big disappointment not to have more details,” Kenneth Rogoff, a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund who’s now a professor at Harvard, tells Bloomberg’s Rich Miller. “We’ve been here for three hours and 23 minutes and have no discernible idea as to how we’re gonna solve this problem,” Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., told Geithner at Tuesday’s Senate Banking Committee hearing, per ABC’s Matt Jaffe. “The real question was why he would propose a stress test when other medical procedures would seem to be in order for the banking system — an enema at the very least, if not a heart-lung transplant,” The Washington Post’s Dana Milbank writes. “As the Treasury secretary defended his plan, the ticker tape on Wall Street resembled the electrocardiogram of a very sick patient.” “So much for the savior-based economy,” Maureen Dowd writes in her New York Times column. “There’s a weaselly feel to the plan, a sense that tough decisions were postponed even as President Obama warns about our ‘perfect storm of financial problems.’ The outrage is going only one way, as we pony up trillion after trillion.” Whose is this thing? “Bank bailouts are catastrophic in political terms and much more important, in the Paulson/Geithner model, probably won’t work either,” Josh Marshall writes at Talking Points Memo. “That’s a bad combination. At some point, Obama owns this.” Ruth Marcus offers the alternative view: “By the end of his first two weeks in office, the president signed into law two major pieces of legislation — on pay discrimination and children’s health care. By the end of his first month, he will, in all likelihood, have overseen enactment of a stimulus bill that will be about the size, with about the mix of new spending and tax cuts, that he originally proposed. Remember, at this point in Bill Clinton’s presidency, he was still more than two months away from losing his effort to pass a stimulus measure. Its price tag? $16 billion.” The New Republic’s Noam Scheiber: “Obama has completely defined the stimulus narrative on his own terms. To the average voter, Obama has been earnest and conciliatory while the Republicans have been cynical, self-serving, and puerile. Which, if the past is any guide, is precisely the moment he’ll start playing hardball.”

Moveon.org, meanwhile, is dropping tens of thousands of questions for bank executives onto the laps of lawmakers, for Wednesday’s House Financial Services Committee hearing. “Eight chief executives will slip behind a witness table in the Rayburn House Office Building on Wednesday morning to face a battery of questions about how they have used more than $160 billion in taxpayers’ money,” per the AP’s Jim Kuhnhenn. Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., breaks an incredible record on Wednesday — his 19,420th day as a House member, a span that stretches across more than one-fourth of American history. “Same as any other day — I’m going to work in the same office, I’m going to go to the [House] floor, do the same things in committee, and do the same things in terms of work,” Dingell tells ABCNews.com. Gov. Sarah Palin, R-Alaska, turns 45 Wednesday. She is scheduled to hold a Cabinet meeting in Juneau at 2 pm ET, followed by a 6 pm ET press conference, per ABC’s Teddy Davis. Wednesday’s Cabinet meeting is the first since Tuesday’s resignation of Alaska Attorney General Talis Coldberg. Per the Anchorage Daily News, “Colberg has been at the center of controversy over his handling of the so-called ‘Troopergate’ investigation.” On the political front, Palin’s office confirmed for ABC News on Tuesday that she is turning down an invitation to address CPAC, an annual meeting of conservative activists, which is taking place in Washington, D.C., from Feb. 26-28. She is planning to send a video message. The Los Angeles Times’ Andrew Malcolm wants to know how you’re celebrating: “At last report Palin’s husband, Todd, is running fifth, 61 minutes behind the leaders, in the Tesoro Iron Dog snowmobile — er, snowmachine — race that he’s won four times and lasts one long week in weather that sometimes warms up to minus-40. So, he probably won’t be bringing home fresh-cut flowers for SP tonight.” The Kicker: “We’re going to have something that a lot of you young journalists have never seen, and that is an open conference committee, where we — the Democrats and Republicans — sit down in a room just like this around a table, and you raise issues and you say, oh, is this a good or bad issue? And there’s a vote that takes place. That’s what we’re going to do.” — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, in December 2006, on how Democrats would run the show when they took control of Congress. Bookmark the link below to get The Note’s daily morning analysis:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/the_note/index.html For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/ Follow The Note blog on Twitter: http://twitter.com/thenote

User Comments

There it is in black and white, Obama using fear to get his way.

Posted by: Right there | February 11, 2009, 8:19 am 8:19 am

Well unlike Iraq, the economic situation is real. What Bush did was peddling fear. What Obama is doing is telling the Beltway to get with it. By the way, it is really dishonest to combine the stimulus and the bank bailout as one. Those are two different things.

Posted by: Micheline | February 11, 2009, 8:43 am 8:43 am

The issue here isn’t fear it’s to try to keep this stimulus bill from dying in Committee. It may sound like scaring the House and Senate to action, but we all know that if he doesn’t do that, the bill will be stuck while people are losing their homes and jobs. States are considering laying off state workers and you don’t think this thing is real? Normally, I’d totally agree that perhaps a little fear mongering is going on, but in this situation, the consequences are real and real people are hurting.
We can’t let some people in the House and Senate do nothing. I only wish both the Democrats and Republicans could put aside their petty politics for a while so that they could do something. I don’t mind the size of the bill, because I know I’m not smart enough to work out all the details, but I’d much rather someone try something than do nothing.

Posted by: D. Johnson | February 11, 2009, 8:51 am 8:51 am

Rick Klein’s race slip show every day. He just won’t cut Obama a break for trying to improve things in this country and after only 3 weeks in office! I don’t recall him coming down at all on the ones who really created this crisis. The ones who for 8 years nearly destroyed this country. It is really sicknening to read these biased blogs from him. At least if he was fair and equal opportunity in his criticism, I could respect him.

Posted by: Insulted | February 11, 2009, 9:00 am 9:00 am

If Obamma engaged in fear politics, I wonder how 8 years of continuous brainwashing and attempted mind control, with the help of a media hiding behind the “liberal media” gift of conservatives would be defined. I sense a continued slant in this column and guess we can say that this is yet another attempt to undermine the new administration by being the puppet voice for conservatives who give great perks. Where are members of the media, touting the conservative talking points, meeting with party representatives now that they don’t have the White House?
Who cares about Palin. She is a non-issue except for extremists and media personalities not doing their jobs by not discussing relevent information. This is a continuation of the mind-numbing tabloid journalism very prevalent during the past 8 years.

Posted by: Sharon Dupree | February 11, 2009, 9:01 am 9:01 am

What happened to hope not fear? It seems that being pc and electing an incredibley inexperienced black president just because he’s black was racist and will ultimately harm the mindless democrats unable to think for themselves.
This guy’s act is polished and this was obvious from the first time I heard him speak.

Posted by: don | February 11, 2009, 9:05 am 9:05 am

WE ARE DOOMED This crisis is only in its early stages, and it’s rooted in fundamental problems that cannot possibly be fixed with a few BIG federal bailouts and cash injections.
You know BIG trouble is brewing when top federal Comptroller General (David Walker) recently quit in frustration because as our government’s top accountant had warned in vain — the nation’s finances are going over a cliff and no one is acting to stop it…
…or a recent finding by the Congressional Budget Office that the federal insolvency crisis is so deep every U.S. household would have to cough up half-a-million dollars each just to save the federal government from bankruptcy! (And the financial debt leverage of U.S. consumers themselves is even more scary.)

Posted by: 8mile | February 11, 2009, 9:09 am 9:09 am

Stimulus Package…what stimulus? We though no fault of our own are now in an upside mortgage, have lost over $200,000 in our retirement account’s value because of the crisis created by the banking industry, and as stimulus we get a $1,000 TAX DEDUCTION! Some stimulus.
You want stimulus, want to put Americans back to work, then take serious enforcment action against any one that is hiring an illegal alien, drive every one of them out of the jobs they do not deserve so that LEGAL CITIZENS AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS can be put back to work.
You want stimulus…let Wall Street and the banks EAT THEIR OWN BAD PAPER, rather than expecting us in the middle class to pick up the tab on their bad investments. Let the banking industry and Wall Street take their OWN MEDICINE, rather than thinking it fair that the rest of us should be made sick because of their disease (GREED).
You want to restore CONFIDENCE, have OBama and our elected officials in Washington start acting like they understand us and our plight. So far, there has been NO HELP of any merit for those of us that have taken the biggest hit though we played by the rules. Instead, we watch as trillions of our tax dollars are given to criminals, and cringe every time Obama suggests to us that Illegal Aliens should recieve AMNESTY, cringe when he delays E Verify because implementing it would see to many illegal aliens LOSE THEIR JOBS before Congress has a chance to address comprehensive immigration reform.
Here is a CLUE for Washington…try taking care of OUR OWN for a change.

Posted by: Sherwood | February 11, 2009, 9:12 am 9:12 am

If FDR’s plans got people working, how come the unemployment rate in 1939 was basically the same as it was in 1929? —- Because it did NOT get people back to work — only business can get people back to work — FDR created “make-work” in exchange for food!!! Nothing more!!

Posted by: 8mile | February 11, 2009, 9:35 am 9:35 am

CBO says it will take $500,000 from each American to even get things rolling

Posted by: 8mile | February 11, 2009, 9:36 am 9:36 am

You know BIG trouble is brewing when top federal Comptroller General (David Walker) recently quit in frustration because as our government’s top accountant had warned in vain — the nation’s finances are going over a cliff and no one is acting to stop it…
…or a recent finding by the Congressional Budget Office that the federal insolvency crisis is so deep every U.S. household would have to cough up half-a-million dollars each just to save the federal government from bankruptcy! (And the financial debt leverage of U.S. consumers themselves is even more scary.)

Posted by: 8mile | February 11, 2009, 9:37 am 9:37 am

Here’s why immediate action is critical: To get the economy through last year’s elections, a panicky Congress, Treasury, and the Federal Reserve Bank implemented a series of emergency actions. In addition to artificially (and temporarily) suppressing the price of gold and silver with tools like the super-secret government mechanism known as the Exchange Stabilization Fund (and tools like the President’s “Plunge Protection Team”), they have already printed and pumped several trillion more inflationary, funny money dollars into the U.S. financial system. When its “stimulative” effect wears off, the “you-know-what” is going to hit the fan — Big Time.
Alan Greenspan just confessed the unfolding liquidity crisis is a “once-in-century event,” while former Treasury official (and now columnist) Paul Craig Roberts recently noted “Financially the U.S. is not an independent country… the U.S. is bankrupt.”
The central bank is desperately printing money like there is no tomorrow to desperately buy up bad debts from large numbers of banks that would otherwise be insolvent.

Posted by: 8mile | February 11, 2009, 9:38 am 9:38 am

“You know BIG trouble is brewing when top federal Comptroller General (David Walker) recently quit in frustration because as our government’s top accountant had warned in vain — the nation’s finances are going over a cliff and no one is acting to stop it…”
You do? All this tells me is that when he doesn’t get his way he takes his toys and goes home. Beat it. You didn’t make a strong enough case, pal.

Posted by: silky | February 11, 2009, 9:40 am 9:40 am

In a day or two, House and Senate leadership of both Parties will be picking the “conferees” to negotiate between the House and Senate versions of the bill, which are quite different. Contact your elected officals and demand this porkulus poop be downsized, but then its hard to put 50 pounds of crap in a 10 pound bag

Posted by: 8mile | February 11, 2009, 9:43 am 9:43 am

The media has been feeling the recession acutely and changing the way they deliver news to maximize viewership.
Newsweek magazine is redesigning itself to appeal to people with higher incomes and more education. This is their new “niche.”
I sense that ABC is going for the mass market appeal. I think they are aiming to be a mainstream version of FOX. Hence, the snarky tone of The Note, (well, I noticed the The Note had a rightwing slant back in 2004.) It used to be, news departments aimed for our respect, now they aim to reflect our political orientation. There is no objective news reporting anymore.
I am just idealistic enough to wish we could trust the media. Chuck Todd, over at NBC, is the closest thing to a trusted newsperson as I know. Rick Klein is the least trustworthy, in my book. He’s like O’Reilly, but hiding behind the ABC logo.

Posted by: Amy | February 11, 2009, 9:43 am 9:43 am

Could Klein possibly look any more obnoxious?

Posted by: silky | February 11, 2009, 9:45 am 9:45 am

8mile, please share with us the elements of each bill that you feel make up this pork that is so outrageous.

Posted by: silky | February 11, 2009, 9:47 am 9:47 am

For those not bright enough to know the difference, this is a REAL DISASTER, it is not fear. That is a republicant stunt, and don’t think for one minute that you will not be affected by the lack of action, while our country is imploding. We have this one chance to try to save ourselves, and some people still need to pitch in and help instead of making snarky remarks that help no one. While the Rs spent the past 8 years happily putting us into this situation, they now want to sit on their thumbs and do nothing to help us. Wake up, the only ones trying to help us are the Dems, and 3 great Rs. If you have not lost your job, your insurance, your home, and have no car to sleep in, or food to eat, then get down on your knees and thank your God in whatever way you want to. You do not have the right to prevent help to the 2 1/2 million people who are in this position and lost all they had thru no fault of their own. Shame on you, and SHAME ON THE Rs WHO JUST WANT US TO GO ON DROWNING.

Posted by: Barbara | February 11, 2009, 10:24 am 10:24 am

Frankling Roosevelt: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Brack Obama: The only thing I have to offer is fear itself. I’ll just disguise it as “hope” during the campaign, and enough of the electorate will fall for it to get me in office.
There is a difference here.

Posted by: MNResident | February 11, 2009, 10:40 am 10:40 am

Relax folks. What’s happening is the federal government is about to nationalize most of our major financial institutions. They will do this by buying stocks in the banks and thereby gain control of the banking operations and employees (and their pay). Then the owner of the banks will be the same as the one who issues money. When more money is needed the US Treasury will be able to inject more money at will and without congressional approval. The government will be able to dictate who will get loans and when. Businesses will have access to credit. So will homebuyers and at cheap rates with little qualification required. Welfare, education and healthcare can be funded at will. What’s the downside? Has the government ever managed anything well? Perhaps a greater concern is will the rest of the world buy into such an imaginary economy? Will this move stop the downward spiral of the economy? Yes. But it will only change the downward spiral into a steady downhill slide. The capital investments in banks worldwide is less than their liabilities. As long as this condition exists banks will never be solvent. What’s at the bottom of the slope? Future administrations can deal with that.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 11, 2009, 10:53 am 10:53 am

well it looks like ABC is catering to the Hooverites,cultivating a convienient restroom to vent their gas, jake trapper and the gang need to back off the bean burritos if they want to be taken seriously…You know it’s nice to finally hear an honest assesment of our situation as opposed to the last 8 years where bushs’ posse handed out candy and 600 dollar checks to every american whether they were driving a Rolls or a bicycle, and advising americans to spend their way out of a crisis–where were you Jake? Finally got that frog out of your throat? Why should we listen to you or your fellow Hooverites? The only thing ABC has going for it-is its morning show

Posted by: cowgirlblues | February 11, 2009, 11:05 am 11:05 am

These fools that put their heads up their butts and make believe there is no terrorist threat scare me. Terrorists are real, their threats are real, and other 9/11s are real. That is real fear and Bush did what he had to. I fear what BO and crew are doing to add $1,500,000,000,000 of debt to our nation, all in the name of saving it when all they are doing is spending it mostly on pork.

Posted by: jimmy37 | February 11, 2009, 11:09 am 11:09 am

Smile,
Its fascinating to watch the rightwing bloggers fan out to spread Republican Talking Lies. Today’s talking point: rewrite history to claim FDR’s programs did nothing to help us get through or out of the Depression. Ignore the fact that what really vaulted us out of Depression was government spending on arms and supplies to fight WWII. Do you think there were very many tax cuts in 1942? It really ticks me off when rightwingers use lies, smears, spin and misinformation to advance their agenda.
I was open to hearing arguments against the stimulus plan, until I understood the Republicans are just waging a political war to try and recoup their 2008 political loses. It enrages me to see history rewritten just to support the rightwing agenda. It really does.

Posted by: Amy | February 11, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

I need a little bail out please the IRS for the last 6 years has been taking my money but not reducing the balance I owe as much now as 6 years ago.I will use my bail out money resonable and you can check my figures at anytime there will no vacations, airplanes bought, big bonuses, or sex lunches…please give me a consideration I am one of the broke Americans who is trying to live and my home is the size of a shoe box, I truly need some help

Posted by: MCopeland | February 11, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

Maybe we all need to boycott the Disney corp-start sending them petitions and e-mails to voice our objections to the slanted writings of their employees-I can’t call them journalists..If they are reflecting their parent companies views-we need to speak where it will do the most good. The best day of the last year is when america scraped GW Bush off the bottom of our shoe..

Posted by: cowgirl blues | February 11, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

This stimulus is to the economic recession as invading Iraq was to the war on terror. The same techniques are being wielded by the white house to sell this as was used to sell Iraq.

Posted by: VoterInCincy | February 11, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | Feb 11, 2009 10:53:11 AM;
Monroe, You say; “Relax folks. What’s happening is the federal government is about to nationalize most of our major financial institutions.”…
I say; “It’s obvious your lengthy comment lacks ‘reasonable content’, but you intend it to stimulate discussion?”

Posted by: bobj72 | February 11, 2009, 11:18 am 11:18 am

@ Micheline
Your view on things is exactly what this article brings to light. You do not believe that Obama is using fear to help pass legislature that is he himself admits is not perfect. There are not people in the House or Senate that want to do nothing. They just want to do it correctly. You are right, you or I for that matter, are not smart enough to work out all the details of the bill. That is why it should take time to pass this bill, so that it is done correctly. Obama IS using fear to make it appear that Republicans would rather do nothing than support him. That is not the truth, and I believe you will have a very hard time finding anyone (Republican or Democrat)that does not support a stimulus plan. You my friend are the type of person that continues to draw party lines in a devisive way. Perhaps we could all work TOGETHER to plan a stimulus package that’s done correctly, instead of rushing through immature legislature because ONE MAN proclaims that it need be done now or else. Nobody denies that there is a financial crisis hurting every single American, and nobody denies that there MUST be something done about it. Remember that NOT YOU, NOT I, NOT OBAMA has the insight and intelligence to plan where best to spend near a trillion dollars. Planning, negotiating, and voting against the bill untill it is satisfactory for BOTH sides is not a bad thing, even when there are people losing there jobs and homes. “Any job worth doing is a job worth doing well” Lets do this job right!

Posted by: Deryck Edwards | February 11, 2009, 11:19 am 11:19 am

I bet none of you ever thought where all this money comes from. Which country is lending it to us. There is no country in the world who has that kind of money. So we just start printing it, inflation will run rampand. Now that is fear.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 11, 2009, 11:19 am 11:19 am

Hey Silky,
I see your stillup to your old tricks. You demand others supply you with info, then you ignore it when you can’t understand it.
It has been alomost 24 hours since I gave you an example, have you had enough time to google it for some “explanation” ?
You must be subscribing to Schumer’s idealogy now….
“You lost,” Sen. Schumer sneered. Besides, he taunted, the “American people really don’t care” about all those “little tiny, yes, porky amendments” that the “chattering classes” have exposed:
Well, got news for ya bub, You won, yes, but it is not like you won with 90% of the vote!!!
People like Schumer are why things in washington will not change!

Posted by: Mike_C | February 11, 2009, 11:25 am 11:25 am

Deryck Edwards
Yesterday, a Republican conservative action committee announced plans to fund any candidate who will oppose Collins, Snowe and Spector in their next elections. These are three Republicans who stepped up to work TOGETHER with the President on getting a stimulus package Republicans can except. Apparently, conservative Republicans actually DO favor “doing nothing” as they want to punish the three Republicans who went to bat for more tax cuts and less spending.

Posted by: Amy | February 11, 2009, 11:36 am 11:36 am

“It has been alomost 24 hours since I gave you an example, have you had enough time to google it for some “explanation” ?”
You’ve been throwing a tantrum for weeks about all the pork. I asked you for examples and you gave me ONE example. One. And it is an item that makes up 1/100th of ONE PERCENT of the bill. No, I couldn’t find any detailed rationale for the demand for the Milwaukee schools, although I can connect the dots that their system is in disrepair and people are leaving. Regardless, 1/100th of ONE PERCENT of the bill is hardly justification for the tirade you’ve been on lately. Again, if that’s all you have…you cannot be taken seriously.
“You demand others supply you with info, then you ignore it when you can’t understand it.”
I must have missed something…what was I supplied that I didn’t understand?

Posted by: silky | February 11, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am

“It enrages me to see history rewritten just to support the rightwing agenda. It really does.”
—————————————
It enrages the rest of us every time opposition is raised to things that liberals have to hit up the Kieth Olberman talking points.
Every time a republican opposes Obama on an issue, It is not what so many of you spew.
Hey, by all means, maybe the rebilcans should just let Obama have his way and spend Trillions after Trillions with no explanations, no specifics and no accountability.
Is that what you guys really want, then just man-up and say so!
I’m sure guys like Schumer would relish it, and we all know that with those “evil” right-wingers out the way, the democrats will save the day and not waste a penny in doing it.

Posted by: Mike_C | February 11, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Silky,
This is just your vain attemot to make yourself relevant. I brough tup Pork, BECUASE WE ALL KNOW IN THE PAST BOTH PARTIES HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF IT.
Unlike you, I have no issues saying that my side of the aisle has made mistakes. Your problem is you wont admit it, and well its ok if we waste Millions in a bill thats close to a trillion!
If you want to defend that positon, by all means go ahead!
I never said I was against a true stimulus bill ! I DID say I wanted a bill stripped of PORK.
My “rants” have been asking liberals WHY is is acceptable that ANY PORK is in these bills.
Your replies have been exactly what your throwing out now.
“1/100th of ONE PERCENT of the bill is hardly justification for the tirade you’ve been on lately.”
That is the Schumer defense! By all means go right ahead and continue on with it.
Just curious though, at what percentage does it become unacceptable to you?
5%, 10%, 25% ?????

Posted by: Mike_C | February 11, 2009, 11:47 am 11:47 am

Bush, Cheney and their incompetent Republican enablers have created these problems, now they all have “found Jesus.”…..fiscal responsibility, etc……..Republicans had their chance and screwed up. Now it’s time for Republicans to shut up and let real Americans clean up their mess.

Posted by: Sammy | February 11, 2009, 11:47 am 11:47 am

SAMMY REAL AMERICANS GET REAL YOU MORON THEIR ALL IDIOTS GET THE PICTURE.

Posted by: natale from mass. | February 11, 2009, 11:56 am 11:56 am

DEMOCRATS REAL AMERICANS DONT MAKE ME LAUGH THEIR JUST AS BAD AS REPUBLICANS.

Posted by: natale from mass. | February 11, 2009, 12:01 pm 12:01 pm

Natalie,
Democratic rule is working out well in Mass, huh ?
Obama’s buddy Patrick is now looking to tax bottled water/gatorade and possibly doubling the gas tax.
They are looking into a way to go after businesses in NH for tax revenues from MA residents going to NH to but items there.
The great liberal state of Taxachusetts has returned!

Posted by: Mike_C | February 11, 2009, 12:13 pm 12:13 pm

Bobj72; Notice there was no negativity in my post. I sincerely believe this administration is doing what its leaders feel is the right thing for America. It’s a hypothetical solution to our problems. If the rest of the world’s governments follow suit it will stabilize the world economy for a while. At the same time it will provide (I despise that world provide) for the needs (and wants) of Americans. It’s just what is happening in my opinion. Not trying to sell anything. Have seen it coming for several months. If it turns out I’m wrong, I’ll admit it. Let’s watch and see. It is radical change from everything I’ve learned over the course of my life, but it’s what the future is to be so I’ll just have to adapt. If you own any stock in major financial institutions be advised the value of their stock will soon be at “0″ because banks will become non-profit institutions. If you’re thinking the banks won’t go along with the program, think again. Just as Wells Fargo was forced to accept TARP money even though at the time Wells Fargo didn’t need a rescue, banks will again take the money. It will be an offer they can’t refuse. They can either be “in” and survive or “out” and fail. Some of the less solvent banks will be allowed to fail and their assets will be assumed by the remaining banks. No discussion required, just opinion.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 11, 2009, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

Mike C: Great point!
MA will never get NH to tax Mass residents, they tried in the 80′s and the governor said we would put National Guard troops on the border…. MA is a mess, they can keep that down there!!

Posted by: Freein NH | February 11, 2009, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm

I hope you have read the health provisions slipped in the stimulus package. If you haven’t, you should.From what I just read Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. the system will determine if your dr is doing what is cost effective and the government deems appropiate.
The elderly will be seriously affected since seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. I wonder if this will apply to the rich also. I do not vote any party; but, who I feel will do the best for our country. We all need to know what this stimilus plan contains. IS IT REALLY TO PUT AMERICANS BACK TO WORK.

Posted by: for the people | February 11, 2009, 12:32 pm 12:32 pm

PRAY,PRAY PRAY.AND IF PRAYERS DON’T WORK GET DRUNK AND LOVE THE ONE YOUR WITH BECAUSE YOU MIGHT NEVER GET ANOTHER CHANCE.AMEN!

Posted by: jim martino | February 11, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm

Mike C,
You are the bomb! Silky attacks people when you pin him with the facts. I am DELIGHTED that others like you see him for who he is……a liberal blowhard who lashes out when confronted by facts. Keep up the good work!!!!! Don’t back down…….
If anyone else feels this way please post it. There is power in numbers.
Now I will just wiat to be attacked by him because that is his method.

Posted by: Mike_C_is_the_BOMB!!!!! | February 11, 2009, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm

When I heard Obama’s rally yesterday, I wanted to puke. I can’t believe those people actually think the way they do! Obama with Pelosi and Reid are instilling socialism and no one is batting an eye!! This stimulus has so much pork! And the whopper, instilling universal healthcare without any public debate!!! People will wonder how and when THAT happened! To have a federal board now tell your doctor what can be cured and not be cured! Obama wants to not stimulate the economy, he wants us to be dependant on the government. He is a phony!!!!! And a huge liar!! I am so ashamed of my country it’s sick! To have a President use blackmail to get his plan passed is truly discusting!

Posted by: justrighttoo | February 11, 2009, 12:41 pm 12:41 pm

“Silky attacks people when you pin him with the facts.”
I completely agree…. no credibilty and no educated opinions!

Posted by: Freein NH | February 11, 2009, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

Posted by: Jimmy | February 11, 2009, 12:44 pm 12:44 pm

Silky attacks people when you pin him with the facts.”
I completely agree…. no credibilty and no educated opinions!
Posted by: Freein NH
________________________________________
YES!!!!!!

Posted by: Jimmy | February 11, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

Lets just hear a little intellectual honesty from those of you who called GWB a fearmonger by calling BO a fearmonger. Its ok, they both discussed bad situations to get the public/congress to go along with there plans. Come on show us your not just screaming partisans.

Posted by: OneMoreTime | February 11, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

What was really discusting by Obama when he visited Indiana the other day. He talked about a motorhome factory having lost business. Well, look no further than Obama’s party! His party is the one who said that big vehicles were terrible for the environment! They used more gas! His party doesn’t allow for more gas drilling here for us to be independant! His party hates the “super rich” well, if Obama truly wanted this company to be brought back to life, then he needs to stop taxing those same rich people who buy the motorhommes in the FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gosh, we have a moron as President! It’s pathetic.

Posted by: justrighttoo | February 11, 2009, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

Posted by: Jimmy | February 11, 2009, 12:49 pm 12:49 pm

To all in “Taxacusetts” and everywhere else:
Whether we like it or not, taxes are the price of admission to play with two incompatible forces: capitalism and democracy. These things will always be in conflict with one another. If you want your roads paved while retaining the both the right to complain and the power to turn that complaint into action, then deal with taxes. The last eight years has shown where the road to privitization leads. Do I have a ton a confidence in the bailout? Nope, but the previous administration’s actions created the problems, to say nothing of not offering solutions.
However, if you are still grossly opposed to taxes, you have complete freedom to move to New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a beautiful state–with no social services of any kind, zero educational funds, high rates of addiction with little treatment available, among other problems. At what point are you willing to “live free or die!” as is their state motto?
As for the headlines of today’s The Note…egad. We have an allegedly mainstream media outlet HOPING that we still do not want to maintain our political memory…of just six months ago. Warning people of the danger of inaction when a real crisis is clear and present is not fearmongering. Telling the American public that Iraq had WMDs and nuclear capabilities when they knew neither statement was true…that’s fearmongering. If the folks at The Note feel there isn’t a world-class financial crisis going on, remember that they are in the e-media department of ABC, not in the failing print media department. Their jobs are safe, and they want to keep them that way.

Posted by: CCourington | February 11, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm

“Silky attacks people when you pin him with the facts.”
Aren’t you a the delicate flower?

Posted by: Amy | February 11, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

Amy; That’s politics. Their party won’t support them in the next election if they cross the aisle on this vote. Their political careers are endangered unless they switch parties at which point they will emerge from their frog bodies to become a desireable prince and princesses. Will they have changed? Only in the way they are labeled. The people of the two parties aren’t that much different, it’s the parties they must play to to get reelected that are different. This time in history is reminiscent of the Viet Nam era. A tune by Buffalo Springfield named “For What It’s Worth” contained a lyric “so much resistance is hard to find.” Back then the resistance was by the peaceniks iun the form of protests, sit-ins and riots, and the resistance was against an unpopular war to which the Democrats had committed our youth. This time the war is about whether free enterprise will continue or socialism will become the way. The parties have pronounced differences. Both will fight to get their way. Given exposure to the agenda of either party for 4-8 years will turn the stomachs of enough people to cause them to demand change. Centrists rule. They are the majority who provide balance. Ordinarily the pendulum swings both ways, but this as an unprecedentedly major change which could deter the return pendulum swing. This is a segway moment in our history but it’s not about this stimulus package. The real turning point was yesterday’s announcement of an additional $2 trillion commitment to bailouts. This decision was made by President Obama and Tim Geithner, probably under widespread advisement granted, but without any legislative discussion or approval. The citizens had no say through their representative legislative bodies.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 11, 2009, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm

Ccourington:
“However, if you are still grossly opposed to taxes, you have complete freedom to move to New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a beautiful state–with no social services of any kind, zero educational funds, high rates of addiction with little treatment available, among other problems. At what point are you willing to “live free or die!” as is their state motto?”
Do you live in NH? You are completley wrong about each of your three statements above. So where do you get this information from anyway?

Posted by: Freein NH | February 11, 2009, 1:00 pm 1:00 pm

Jimmy, you mean Obama’s teleprompter. Did you notice when he had his first press conference that he used it again. I wonder if he sleeps with it? Otherwise, we would just hear “um, um, um, um….” I’m terrified for my country, I mean, no one is asking why socialized healthcare is in this bill! The left really believes that people are just stupid.

Posted by: justrighttoo | February 11, 2009, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

Ccourington: Lovely how you are telling people to “deal” with taxes. You must be just so comfortable in your life with no fear of running out of money or losing a job. The taxes that Massachusetts is proposing on tax, tolls and grocery products are RIDICULOUS! Such compassion….. tell that to someone who lost their job and can’t afford thier mortgage anymore and have no idea where their next paycheck will come from……. get off your high horse.

Posted by: Freein NH | February 11, 2009, 1:04 pm 1:04 pm

“frog bodies to become a desireable prince and princesses”
That’s so cute!
I swear I am getting addicted to the anger I feel when I visit this blog, but you, at least, mmonroeliveson, seem like a thoughtful guy who isn’t just out to pull people’s chains. I enjoy your posts.

Posted by: Amy | February 11, 2009, 1:14 pm 1:14 pm

To for the people:
I appreciate both your attention to the facts and your calmness…such is the way to truly speak about volatile issues in volatile times.
I share your concern about an electronic tracking system of procedures and ailments–but the large insurance companies and pharmaceutical industry have employed the very same technology for years. Indeed, in the name of “transparency,” your records are viewed by more individuals whose sole job is to try to deny you benefits. The idea of a “national health registry” (or some such NewSpeak phrase) is certainly nothing new on the governmental front: lawmakers have been batting the idea around since the Carter administration. What creeps me out–among other things–is the politicking around the genetic testing of embryos and newborns. Some feel that these tests should be mandatory to weed out disease and lower potential future medical claims and costs…again, capitalism versus democracy…
While it is impossible to argue against the idea of getting people back to work as a real mover of economic healing, I have to say that such sentiments, because they are ideal, miss the mark. Back to work in what capacity? In what industry(ies)? With a return to a strong manufacturing base, we run the risk of even greater class divisions. And even so, are you talking about centrally located manufacturing centers, as we had throughout the early and middle 1900s? That would seem to produce more problems than it solves…
I would love to agree with the idea of “let the banks eat their own bad paper!” Except that we–yes, you, me, and our elected officials–allowed said financial system to rig the economy so that they could make more money off of bad debt than they could off of good loans. In tying our economic health to such debt, they became like the alien from the movie of the same name: kill it, and you kill the host. We are the host, they are the parasites whom we currently cannot live without. They rigged it that way. And some of my less vituperative friends on the right, while rightfully outraged and concerned, also acknowledge that a government-ownership solution seems to be the only one available…like it or not.
It is perhaps not a coincidence: our financial situation mirrors that of our relationship to terrorists. We cannot idly do nothing: indeed, terrorism cannot stand, and our financial system cannot be allowed to fail. In each, we are forced to–or at least we should–reject ideological purity, and realize that there are liberal and conservative elements in any lasting solutions. For example, I am for withdrawing troops from Iraq, but not for a total disengagement with Afghanistan or Pakistan. Underneath all of GWBs garbage, one element of his message is still true: there are groups of extremists who would enjoy doing us great harm. But how best to fight terrorism? Over the long haul, you enact policies that truly promote democracy and economic justice. In other words, you don’t fight terroISTS, you fight terroISM. However, this does little to dismantle a resurgent Al-Qaeda. So we still are obligated to take them down so we can then do the longer, harder work of promoting economic justice. The right wing hysterics wring their hands and vocal cords about the growing numbers of Muslims in the world in proportion to the numbers of Christians, the rumblings of a Western holy war thinly veiled under the surface. If we really want to communicate to the vast majority of the Islamic world that we stand behind our ideals, we will stop the pseudo-Christian saber rattling, and start making more democracy-heeding capitalists of all faiths. Safety AND freedom. What a concept.

Posted by: CCourington | February 11, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

Posted by: silky | February 11, 2009, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm

Three weeks ago, I was looking forward to a four year span filled with hope and promise. What a difference three weeks can make! I chalked up his nomination of Bill Richardson (being investigated for ‘pay to play’) as a novice mistake, but then came three individuals for cabinet positions who had cheated on their taxes!
I was really dismayed to find that a portion in the stimulus package had apparently been inserted by Daschle operatives that would have — in effect — rationed health care for seniors (THIS GO MY ATTENTION!). If it was not cost beneficial to keep a senior alive, treatment would not be given, and doctors who do not ‘obey’ will be fined! This has caused my trust in Pres Obama’s judgment to seriously be questioned. Then, on February 10, this Geithner fellow tells us he wants 2 trillion dollars but FAILS to tell us how or why he is going to expend it!! HEY GANG — THAT IS WHY WE ARE IN THE SHAPE WE ARE IN TODAY!! I called it the “GEITHNER STARE” — (10 times more intense than a deer caught in headlights). It is a horrible thing to lose confidence in a leader, but the past three weeks have certainly put this Granny on that path!

Posted by: GrannyCares | February 11, 2009, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm

And you all have to understand the difference between Obama’s fearmongering with regard to this bill and Bush’s 24/7 default position of fearmongering. Run it by Rush and see what he says and get back to me.

Posted by: silky | February 11, 2009, 2:06 pm 2:06 pm

check this out, the Japanese getting excited about Obama’s change in America…
he Japanese seem to have figured out what Obama “change” really is all about.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/japanese-blackface-obama_n_166020.html

Posted by: george Hanson | February 11, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

Posted by: Mike_C_is_the_BOMB!!!!! | Feb 11, 2009 12:39:50 PM
You said; “Mike C,
You are the bomb! Silky attacks people when you pin him with the facts. I am DELIGHTED that others like you see him for who he is……a liberal blowhard who lashes out when confronted by facts. Keep up the good work!!!!! Don’t back down…….”"
If anyone else feels this way please post it. There is power in numbers.
Now I will just wiat to be attacked by him because that is his method.
_______________________________________
I ask; “Why are you so intimidated by Silky?” I KNOW you are aware, he doesn’t need anyone to defend his position/s. Clearly, on an intellectual and knowledge basis, you’re “out of your league” in attempting to contend with him.
It seems to me, your type of Neocom would very much prefer an opportunity to voice your views, your politics and your opinions…..WITHOUT opposition and Certainly without challenge. (“Those young, impressionable minds are fertile….aren’t they? Almost the same for the politically ill-informed and mis-educated, right?”)

Posted by: bobj72 | February 11, 2009, 2:50 pm 2:50 pm

Hugo Chavez uses “fear” of the U.S. to control the people in Venezuela. It is a simple mind-control trick of the extreme left (dictators, etc..) to control the minds and actions of the people for political gain. Sounds like Obama has learned a few tricks from Al Gore.

Posted by: Mihann | February 11, 2009, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm

Posted by: GrannyCares | Feb 11, 2009 2:04:29 PM;
Ms. GrannyCares, will you please provide the ‘Factual Validation’ for these two (2) CLAIMS you’ve made?
… “a portion in the stimulus package had apparently been inserted by Daschle operatives that would have — in effect — rationed health care for seniors”…
… “If it was not cost beneficial to keep a senior alive, treatment would not be given, and doctors who do not ‘obey’ will be fined!”
_____________
I’m anxiously awaiting your response, to learn of this ‘evil doing.’

Posted by: bobj72 | February 11, 2009, 3:13 pm 3:13 pm

“You are the bomb! Silky attacks people when you pin him with the facts.”
Um…I’m still waiting on these “facts.” Or are we still campaigning on the 1/100th of ONE PERCENT of the bill, that neither of us has even read the rationale for. Oh wait…that’s all that dialy memo cited, so he has nowhere else to go.
Posted by: silky
—————————————-
I am sorry that I haven’t posted but I have been working. That concept may be something new to you. I find it hilarious that you would attack me again. I knew it would happen. It was totatlly predictable.
Work may be a new concept to you; you shuld try it some time. Oh wait, you were laid off (insert violins here.)

Posted by: Mike_C_is_the_BOMB!!!!! | February 11, 2009, 5:19 pm 5:19 pm

In the 1870s depression the government did not lend assistance. FDR was aware of this and knew that it lasted much longer because of the lack of assistance. He was also aware of the lack of any controls on business practice led directly to the “Great Depression.” I think most of Congress is aware of these basics and simply want to be the ones that present the package that “wins.” However parts of the spending package are labeled, when all is totaled from the last 8 years of spending and the bailout from the fall, combine this one add all of it together and (do include Iraq) we are about 9 trillion in debt. A debt that must be paid off. Why don’t you look at the one way we may be able to pay this off, get people back to work and give serious relief to those who are working? We need tax reformation, one above the all the others offers us a chance to do that. Yet, your Congress is afraid of it, they will lose control of you, and those tax deductions that most us will never use. Do your self a favor and look into the Fair Tax.
www. fair tax.org
About the electronic system for health care it already exists, and older people (55+) are denied twice as often as younger people.
While people are at one another over the democrat or republican way being the best way, the Congress will all sit down and share lunch and few laughs at your expense. There isn’t a minutes worth of difference. This time democrats are in driver’s seat – before it was the republicans. Show me the major differences.

Posted by: miss texas kitty | February 11, 2009, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm

President Obama’s socialist agenda is coming more and more out into the open. Add to that tax dodging Washington insiders, a financial advisor who has run GE into the ground while doing business with Iran, and a cabinet made up of people who have no experience at their posts (kinda like our President) and you get the kind of change those of us who voted for McCain saw coming. And when is the President going to take charge and stop the “It’s not my fault, it was like that when I got here” whine? Did he not know that during the campaign?

Posted by: Squid | February 11, 2009, 6:49 pm 6:49 pm

Posted by: Squid | Feb 11, 2009 6:49:00 PM;
“Squid, You sound like someone who should be part of “The Peanut Company Recall.”

Posted by: bobj72 | February 11, 2009, 7:02 pm 7:02 pm

Good analogy, bobj72. The peanut company lied to save the bottom line, Obama lied to scare congress into not junking his first (and not last, I’m afraid) socialist political move.

Posted by: Squid | February 11, 2009, 7:09 pm 7:09 pm

Where are all the libs wearing t-shirts that say “Obama lied, America’s free market system died”?

Posted by: Squid | February 11, 2009, 7:10 pm 7:10 pm

OBie’s a clown who thinks bipartisanship means voting for an empty spending bill just because he says to. Government spending isn’t an economy. When the money runs out we’ll be worse off than when we are now – and then who will the Dems blame?

Posted by: John Kantor | February 12, 2009, 2:33 am 2:33 am

Mr. Obama and esteemed congress members. Wouldnt it make more sense if ALL the money went toward Unemployment instead of a mere fraction? After all we are facing the second great depression!!! We dont need fish ladders, green golf carts, money for global warming, or even to refurb government buildings or offices. They are just fine. People are going to need a lot of unemployment money since you are giving big ‘tax breaks’ to huge corporations and banks (still). The corporations are and still are still going to send all our jobs overseas to India and China because you are not doing anything to stop it as these are your cronies. Why not help the people who got you elected and got you your job? The ones who are losing their jobs. You remind me of another idiot democrat Corzine who said lets ban smoking in restaurants and casinos dont worry if it will cost them their business. You cater to special interests not common interests!! You and congress already sold our countries infra down the river with NAFTA (free trade). Now we dont have FAIR TRADE in the USA anymore with the rest of the world. People with no job dont take out bank loans, buy houses, or cars. Hell they dont even trust the bank if they owe money a bill collector/creditor can debit or seize money from a bank checking account so banks arent even safe! Do you get it yet??? Think about what youre going to do today! Its going to cost you your credibility to say the least.

Posted by: paulie | February 12, 2009, 8:29 am 8:29 am

Squid, Kantor & paulie; “IT’S AMAZING what an Eight (8) Year Addiction will do to a Brain!!!”

Posted by: bobj72 | February 12, 2009, 8:52 am 8:52 am

“Where are all the libs wearing t-shirts that say “Obama lied, America’s free market system died”?”
That might be funny if it was true and if 4,000+ American soldiers hadn’t been killed do to Bush and Cheney’s lie.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 10:09 am 10:09 am

It’s AMAZING how libs like bobj72 seem to forget that Dems have been in control of Congress for the past 2 1/2 years. I don’t remember things being this bad 3 years ago, do you?

Posted by: Squid | February 12, 2009, 10:30 am 10:30 am

The Squid sayeth (2/12/09, 10:30:49 AM):
“It’s AMAZING how libs like bobj72 seem to forget that Dems have been in control of Congress for the past 2-1/2 years. I don’t remember things being this bad 3 years ago, do you?”
Well color me done corrected as all get out! I didn’t think a lone neo-con blogger–professional hack or amateur hack–could encapsulate the full range of said group’s myopia in a such a short statement. Let me be the first to say that I was wrong, and to congratulate you on–and thank you for–your stunning accomplishment.
Problem #1: The Dems, while having a plurality in Congress since 2006, did NOT have a majority. Hence, it is simply incorrect to say that they have had control of Congress when, as I am sure you can remember “way” back then, the neo-con base in 2005-06 was still quite unified. Even after the ’06 midterm elections, Republican unity was still a powerful leveraging tool in congress. Because of this, as I am sure you can recall given the breadth of your historical memory, the so-called Democrat “controlled” congress of 06-07 was quite unable to make a significant dent in the nature or amounts of money going to Iraq. Further, they were unable to do anything about the Bush Tax cuts, either–those same corporate welfare plans that have contributed to where we are now.
2) Which leads quite nicely to something else rather incredible, implied in your statement. Do you believe–really, do you?–that first of Bush’s recessions, in 2000-2002, the beginnings of the credit and housing busts, which began in 2005, and the beginning of the bank swindles, which began in 2007, were all MAGICALLY started and CAUSED by the NON-MAJORITY of Democrats in congress? Do you mean to say that the laissez-faire, free-marketism of Bush/Cheney, having had a six-year head start, had NOTHING to do with laying the groundwork for our current crises? You run with that, buckaroo, and come in for more Kool-Aid when things get too hot outside.
3) And finally, you seem to say that, since YOU (inexplicably, though unsurprisingly at that) somehow “can’t remember” things being this bad 3 years ago, THEREFORE they were not as bad, which then enables you to make the laughingly bogus connection we started with–things were ok in 2005, Dems get “control” in 2006, now that things are in the tank, it MUST be their fault!
Did it occur to you–just for a brief, dawning second, a creeping moment you had to shout into non-existence–that just because you “don’t remember” things being this bad in 2005, that your little perspective of the Halcyon days o’ so long lost might not have been as accurate as you thought?
As a far-left liberal who doesn’t like the Democrats very much, I ain’t holding my breath for the miracle of the stimulus bills. But I could be proven completely wrong, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that new information is constantly emerging, which we will have to adjust to. You neo-cons have a moralistic set of “principles” which, when social forces prove them to be problemmatic, yell louder that it is the “lack of moral purity” (or, translated, lack of faith in the free market; or lack of unquestioned support for foreign policy; or for demands to have our constitutional rights protected) or some such nonsense that is to blame for the growing discord between your so-called principles and the rest of the world as it changes. No, it’s never your neo-con view of the world that you question, it’s the inability of the rest of the world to conform to it that is cause for great crises in national security, or a raise of the terrorist threat, or the need to privatize social security (hey, how would THAT have worked out, huh?)
Yeah, Squid-ster, you can’t remember it because you chose to buy a bogus bill of goods. And your stagnation, your rot, is our fault. Got it. Next.

Posted by: CCourington | February 12, 2009, 11:50 am 11:50 am

Of course he is turning to fear. Barry is following Saul Alinksy’s playbook. It says that to obtain/maintain power, one should do and say whatever is necessary.
He has been implementing his far-left socialist agenda at lightning speed, with no way for the public to digest what is happening.
He nominates tax cheats to run the IRS, and a defender of child pornography to attorney general.
He closes gitmo and refuses to punish the man who bombed the USS Cole.
He let the same band of idiots who got us into the “affordable housing” credit crisis (harry reid, barney frank, chuck schumer, chris dodd, maxine waters,pelosi) draft a $780 billion dollar bill that did nothing more then to grow the federal gov’t.
There is NO way the media (even if they were doing honest coverage of him) could keep up with all of these changes this socialist is doing.
Congratulations America, you wanted to be more like France! Bonjour!

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 11:59 am 11:59 am

“Where are all the libs wearing t-shirts that say “Obama lied, America’s free market system died”?”
Well said squid!

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

Where were all of you Republican puppets when Bush and his cohorts were giving away millions to big business, big donors, Iraq and whipping out no-bid contracts as millions of dollars “disappeared” when blank check money was sent to Iraq and as this country got noticeably worse, under the veiled attempt at “trickle down” economics? This policy caused a disaster which a Democratic president will, again, have to clean up. This situation was not totally caused by the mortgage crisis. It’s a result of a president who only cared about those whom he called “his people” which he termed the “haves” and “have nots”. I forgot that you and your members in Congress only complain when it’s human beings who actually need assistance and are not participants in the race for power, greed and excess.

Posted by: Sharon Dupree | February 12, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm

To FreeinNH, concerning your response of 2/11/09 (1:04:37):
I apologize for not responding sooner–not that you were anxiously awaiting a response to begin with. But you raise an important aspect to the argument I made concerning the “price of admission” that, in my opinion, taxes represent. (As a side note, our alleged brand of capitalism, more of a free market system, certainly is one which, if we generalize, would treat taxes with hostility. This is in stark contrast to European capitalism, which models a social welfare state, though they are moving away from that in varying degrees, depending on the country you find yourself in.)
But your contention with my point had–well, as far as I could tell–nothing to do with that distinction. Rather than raising an economic dissent, it seems your rebuttal was an ideological one. I want to first make sure I understand your position before I respond to it.
1) Are you saying that ALL taxes, regardless of type or purpose, are detrimental to the vast majority of American citizens, more and more of whom will find the going to get much tougher quite soon?
2) Further, are you also making an historical argument, that taxes have never had any type of positive or regulating effect in our economy? Is it that taxes always have been, and always will be “bad?”
3) Or, are you saying that taxes on the things you mention in Massachusetts (for example, gas, tolls, other consumer products), because they would seem to take even MORE of the dwindling funds away from people who have less and less cash right now, are designed ultimately to serve the upper-middle class, as if they were just another reconfiguration of the same old “trickle-down” B.S. we’ve been suffering through for far too long?
Okay, I’m going to go with option 3. Though you may also believe the other two points above, the third option seems to hit us both where we live (in MA and NH, respectively, of course).
Let’s first start with my main assertion, that taxes are “the price of admission” to playing with capitalism and democracy, two forces which will always conflict with each other. I assumed–and I certainly should not have done so–that it was clear that I was speaking in broader historical terms at this point. I was not attempting to make a comment specifically about how the current juggling of the tax structure may effect a wide cross-section of Americans. I made an admittedly unsupported, if off-hand observation that, love ‘em or hate ‘em, the levy of taxes does equal power, and power is also the power–potentially–to pay for basic services we ALL need. Now, would be awfully nice if the system worked so fluidly? Sure it would, but then, I am guessing neither of us believe in Santa Claus, either.
So, I admit the fault of insufficient explanation there. I glossed over a rather important aspect of my assertion. I am quite sure I’ll make another screw-up like that in the future, given, as we all are, to rhetorical flourishes or simply pure rage in the moment. However, to accuse me of being on a “high horse”–thus implicitly linking our history of levying taxes with a some bogus bourgeois “wistfulness” on my part–is just a joke. Want proof? Go back and read your response…how self-righteous were you in your response?
In any event, back to point 3 above. Let’s assume for the moment–and we could certainly find plenty of evidence to support this–that the Democrat reorganization of our tax codes, along with the bailout bill, will first and foremost benefit the upper-middle class. Where do you draw the line of accountability: with the very idea of taxes, or with rather unimaginative reconstitutions of the same ol…stuff?
Taxes, as they occasionally have worked, and tend to do so far more in smaller communities than in larger ones, are like a mutual pay-in system. You get basic infrastructure and other needs met, including a variety of social services, paid for at a maintenance level so that the community as a whole can function effectively at something resembling a good cost-benefit ratio: the garbage gets taken away; roads get paved; public schools (a nightmare issue themselves) are supplied, etc. For example, a taxpayer investment in a health clinic can, theoretically save a community far greater sums of money by providing health care maintenance rather than relying mostly (or solely) on emergency-based care for otherwise routine needs. Again, I realize this is simplified and far-too-rosy for reality, but you get the point.
So what do we do when what we are not, have not, and seemingly will not get anything resembling a return on our investment? Do we eliminate taxes themselves, or do we hang the bastards who have rigged the game? If we were to–let’s just say temporarily–reduce or eliminate the Massachusetts taxes we mentioned above, where will the cash come from to maintain the even-more vital social services for a growing percentage of the population which will find less in the wallets NO MATTER WHAT (for at least the next year or so, at any rate). If health clinics close, schools fall apart at an increased rate, and infrastructure is not repaired…do we privatize these things and let private industry “run these services in the spirit of the free-market, in light of healthy competition, creating jobs and bolstering the consumer base…?”
Yeah, we both have heard that one–we heard it over and over from 1980-1992, in a different form in the Clinton years, and over the last eight years especially. How’s that strategy worked, do you think? How much evidence do we need that shows that the Utilitarian business ideal is just pure nonsense? Capitalist businesses will-surprise!–compete to run the projects that rake in the bucks, but there is no evidence that such privitization efforts have the public interest in mind. Such an interest limits profit, mobility, and weakens industries ability to keep wages and standards at their bare minimum. Again, capitalism and democracy will always be in conflict…
So, if not taxes, then what? Oh yeah: “put the people back to work!” Hey, great idea. DOING WHAT? The United States no longer makes much of anything–we have outsourced our manufacturing power, and leveraged out the astonishing amount of service-industry power we had just last decade…
Look, I am not, in any way, trying to gloss over the everyday experience of a lot of Americans–myself included: I have a wife and family who are students, and I spend just as much time trying to patch together part-time jobs as I do working the part-time jobs I manage to get. It sucks, as you well know. Will paying that much more for needed goods suck a little bit more? You bet.
But for the short term, I know damn well that the job I really need to secure adequate private insurance for medical conditions my daughter and I have simply ain’t there. Am I being nickel-and-dimed AGAIN? Sure enough. But at least my kid won’t have seizures, because the care is available…for now. The trade off, in my case, is beyond question.
Hmmm…not as simple as it seems, eh?Peace to you.

Posted by: CCourington | February 13, 2009, 4:23 am 4:23 am

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The Note, 02/11/09: Fear Itself — A $3 trillion day, a bailout bust, as the president stokes fear to prod action

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