By Caitlin Taylor

Feb 12, 2009 8:11am

The Note, 2/12/09: The Win — Obama gets his package — but what did he lose in the process?

By RICK KLEIN What are the chances we’ll know everything about what’s in this stimulus package before President Obama signs it into law? What are the chances he’ll still want to claim this as a victory once we know everything that’s in it? What are the chances the next win will be this easy — as difficult as this one was? (By the way — he’s still got a banking system to save, too.) It’s been messy, it’s been ugly, it’s been untidy — and it’s right to be scored a legislative win, on-budget and on-schedule (mostly). Few presidents have been able to claim a victory of this magnitude, in scope and sweep, this early in a presidency. It’s Lincoln’s birthday, but cue the FDR references. Yet we may not know for a while whether any president (this one included) will want to claim a victory quite like this one. If the stimulus package works, the answer to that is easy. But this is a victory that’s stocked with the possibility of losses — of a political honeymoon, of the chances of bipartisan action in addressing the next agenda items, of solid Democratic unity in support of the president, and maybe of a little bit of hope. “It is a quick, sweet victory for the new president, and potentially a historic one. The question now is whether the $789 billion economic stimulus plan agreed to by Congressional leaders on Wednesday is the opening act for a more ambitious domestic agenda from President Obama or a harbinger of reduced expectations,” Richard W. Stevenson writes in The New York Times. “In cobbling together a plan that could get through both the House and the Senate, Mr. Obama prevailed, but not in the way he had hoped. His inability to win over more than a handful of Republicans amounted to a loss of innocence, a reminder that his high-minded calls for change in the practice of governance had been ground up in a matter of weeks by entrenched forces of partisanship and deep, principled differences between left and right,” he writes. In political terms, this looked like one of the Washington games we’re used to — bluster from both sides, fierce partisanship, and in the end, a compromise that’s passing with just enough support from the opposition to clear procedural obstacles. This belongs to the Democrats, and the sales pitch continues: “If you look at the overall package, states will be getting significant help across the board,” Obama said in a roundtable interview with reporters from regional newspapers. “We will have allocated money for a couple of years’ worth of help, recognizing that in states like Ohio, you are not going to see the economy pull out of recession overnight.” “I would argue what’s most likely is we undercount jobs,” the president said, per the Philadelphia Inquirer’s Thomas Fitzgerald. “I think the ripple effects of this package won’t be entirely documentable, but I think it will be significant.” What else is documentable? “[Congress] handed President Barack Obama his first major legislative victory, though the deliberations that led up to its passage highlighted the enormous challenges Obama will face in more complicated endeavors like healthcare, entitlement and energy reform,” Time’s Jay Newton-Small writes. “But given how hard it was for the President to win the backing of enough members of his own party and the GOP, the stimulus fight showed the limits of even his seemingly enormous electoral mandate.” Of lingering impacts: “Mr. Obama will get his bill. But it won’t be one focused on job creation and stimulus. The bill he signs will create a raft of new programs and be the biggest peacetime spending increase in American history, which will give us larger deficits and create pressure to raise taxes. It will also hinder the president’s other goals, such as expanding government health care,” Karl Rove writes in his Wall Street Journal column. “Mr. Obama, for all his talents, has already re-energized the GOP and sparked a spending debate that will last for years. The president won this legislative battle, but at a high price — fiscally and politically,” Rove writes. “This is the largest piece of economic legislation ever,” ABC’s George Stephanopoulos reported on “Good Morning America” Thursday. “He knows that right now, he and his party own the economy. And that if these plans work, he will be rewarded — Democrats will get the credit. If they don’t, I think he’s right, I think he’ll face tremendous public opposition, probably won’t get reelected.” “We have never seen anything like this,” Stephanopoulos reports. “Overall, with TARP money and money from the Federal Reserve, the government is pushing $2-3-trillion into the economy.” On-the-job training: “En route to what looks to be the first major victory of his presidency, Obama had some stumbles. His team allowed congressional Republicans to cast the stimulus bill as laden with wasteful spending, and faced distracting questions over why some Cabinet nominees hadn’t paid all their taxes,” USA Today’s Susan Page writes. “But in his three weeks in the White House, Obama and his team have shown a willingness to cut their losses and revise their tactics when things seem to be going astray.” “The elements that survived reflected the new president’s shifting ambitions in what he calls the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression,” Sasha Issenberg writes for The Boston Globe. “So much for post-partisanship,” Politico’s Charles Mahtesian and Patrick O’Connor write. “So despite Obama’s campaign call for an end to ‘the smallness of our politics’ and his criticism of the ‘preference for scoring cheap political points,’ that’s exactly what’s happened during the first big legislative test of his administration.” Politics, now: “Today, again, we are told that ‘politics’ has no place in the debate about the tripartite stimulus legislation, which is partly a stimulus, partly liberalism’s agenda of social engineering, and partly the beginning of ‘remaking’ the economy,” George Will writes in his column. “Not yet a third of the way through the president’s ‘first 100 days,’ he and we should remember that it was not FDR’s initial burst of activity in 1933 that put the phrase ’100 days’ into the Western lexicon. It was Napoleon’s frenetic trajectory in 1815 that began with his escape from Elba and ended near the Belgian village of Waterloo.” The House could vote as early as Thursday, with the Senate to follow Friday — leaving it for Obama’s signature by his Presidents Day goal. In the meantime, it’s back to Illinois for the president: “Obama is scheduled to talk during a meeting Thursday afternoon with Caterpillar workers facing the prospect of layoffs,” per the AP. “Caterpillar is cutting more than 20,000 jobs. The Peoria-based company says demand for its heavy construction equipment and other machinery has been severely hurt by the global economic crisis. Obama said Wednesday Caterpillar will rehire some of its laid-off workers if the president’s nearly $800 billion stimulus bill is approved.” The deal couldn’t even get rolled out cleanly: “After bungling the selling of the economic stimulus bill and miscalculating how much political capital they had to ram it through Congress, Democrats stumbled again on Wednesday’s announcement of a deal — delaying the beginning of the end for the now-$789.5 billion measure,” Roll Call’s Emily Pierce writes. “Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) had given Reid her approval to go forward with the press conference, but she soon found that rank-and-file House Democrats were livid that a deal was being publicized while they still hadn’t been briefed on what was in it.” “The plan was met with some backlash from House Democrats, who complained about not being included in the negotiations,” ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf and Jonathan Karl report. “To quell a last-minute rebellion by the liberal leaders, who were unhappy with the scaled-down bill, senators met at the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to negotiate the plan this afternoon and increased the funds allocated to states for school construction.” Isn’t open democracy fun? “The only Republicans involved in most of the talks are the three moderates who voted for the package on the Senate floor. Their votes, of course, are critical to passing the measure,” per ABC News. “They like to be in the room when these things are put together. And they haven’t been. And so I think they were a bit offended by that,” Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood tells ABC’s Jake Tapper. Feeling the impact: “The stimulus package has emerged as the first major campaign issue of the 2010 election cycle, and a Republican Party eyeing a return to the majority is going all-in,” The Hill’s Aaron Blake writes. Cue RNC Chairman Michael Steele: “If you like government dependence, you will love the Reid-Pelosi plan that they are jamming through Congress,” Steele writes in a USA Today op-ed. Here come the ads: “The party’s campaign arm will start airing radio ads Friday in approximately 30 Democratic districts to argue that the bill violates the lawmakers’ campaign pledge to restore fiscal responsibility to Washington,” Politico’s Patrick O’Connor reports. Growth — in size, and in politics. “Three months ago, the stimulus plan was envisioned as a $300 billion rescue package that the incoming Obama team had hoped would be enacted well before Inauguration Day, which would have cleared the way for the new White House to start from scratch on an ambitious domestic agenda,” The Washington Post’s Shailagh Murray and Paul Kane write. “Instead, it became a politically charged first test for the Obama administration and the newly expanded Democratic Congress, as well as a rallying point for congressional Republicans.” Has the stimulus lost some stimulus? “The latest version of the economic-stimulus package is expected to provide less near-term support for the economy and make it less likely that the economy will pull itself out of recession before late this year,” Sudeep Reddy writes in The Wall Street Journal. “The $789.5 billion deal, reached by House and Senate negotiators Wednesday, indicates the Obama administration was willing to reduce its goal of creating or saving four million jobs. The new plan pares some aid to state and local governments that was aimed at preventing job cuts and reduces tax breaks for workers that were intended to spur quick spending.” And taxes? How’s $13 a week feel? (That’s three of those new Starbucks value meals.) “It includes Obama’s signature ‘Making Work Pay’ tax credit for 95 percent of workers, though negotiators agreed to trim the credit to $400 a year instead of $500 — or $800 for married couples, cut from Obama’s original proposal of $1,000. It would begin showing up in most workers’ paychecks in June as an extra $13 a week in take-home pay, falling to about $8 a week next January,” per the AP’s Jim Abrams. The AMT fix survives: “The House-Senate compromise . . . cuts funds for extended health care coverage for the unemployed; cuts $30 billion in aid to state governments to prevent reductions in social services to the poor and out-of-work; and also cuts a special ‘Making Work Pay’ tax holiday from $500 to $400 for an individual, and from $1,000 to $800 for a couple, for low-to-middle-income workers still hanging on to their jobs,” Tom Edsall writes for Huffington Post. “Amid all the cutting, however, one group emerged unscathed: the upper-middle class, the not-quite-super-rich, but certainly not on the ropes.” Are the goals still the same? “Both Mr. Obama and Democratic leaders lowered their work-creation expectation Wednesday. They had originally said their goal was to create, or save, four million jobs. Last night, they cut that to 3.5 million,” The Wall Street Journal’s Greg Hitt and Jonathan Weisman report.

A source of strength: “Nearly seven in ten Americans approve of the way President Barack Obama is doing his job, giving him enormous political capital as he pushes Congress to give him unprecedented tools to fight economic crisis, according to a new McClatchy-Ipsos poll,” McClatchy’s Steven Thomma writes. “Obama outpolls Congress by more than 30 points, and he also can point to an uptick in the number of people who think the country’s headed in the right direction even as a majority thinks the worst is yet to come in the economy.” About that banking system — why did Tim Geithner give his speech this week again? “As senior senators demanded more details yesterday about how the government’s new financial rescue package will work, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner told them that the time he is taking to work out the specifics will make for a better plan and prevent missteps,” The Washington Post’s Renae Merle and Neil Irwin write. “So you have no clue,” Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told Geithner, per ABC’s Matt Jaffe. Bloomberg columnist John M. Berry: “Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner got in trouble this week not because details of his financial stability plan weren’t ready. It was because he and other Obama administration officials had led everyone to believe they were. That violated a guiding principle of Washington life: manage expectations so no one is disappointed by what you deliver. It’s an integral part of the spin process every politician learns at his mother’s (or mentor’s) knee.” All at once, now: “Two huge economic relief programs. One potentially big headache for President Obama,” CQ’s Adriel Bettelheim writes. “Not quite four weeks into his presidency, Obama faces a formidable test rallying public support for the economic stimulus package at the same time his Treasury Department begins to roll out a plan to overhaul the bank bailout program.” Get ready, Chicago: “When Air Force One touches down Friday evening in Chicago, there will once again be a chance to see heavily armed motorcades and be surprised by unexpected appearances by the most famous and powerful Chicagoan. It will also mark the start of an entirely new experience for the city: hosting an extended visit by a sitting president,” per the Chicago Tribune’s John McCormick and Sara Olkon. “There will almost certainly be morning workouts near Obama’s South Side home, street closures as his motorcade zips across town and possibly a Valentine’s Day dinner out for the First Couple at one of their favorite restaurants. But there will be some new wrinkles. Security is almost certain to be even tighter than it was when Obama was last in the city Jan. 4, and there will be the potential to catch a glimpse of Air Force One and other presidential details.” A watershed moment? “A crew from The Daily Show with Jon Stewart is at the White House today. The daily briefing is ripe for mocking and mugging — like shooting gold fish in a bowl — and the Daily Show team was there as White House press secretary Robert Gibbs parried with reporters,” Lynn Sweet writes for the Chicago Sun-Times. A star is showcased: “House and Senate Republican leaders announced today that Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal will deliver the Republican response to President Obama’s address to a Joint Session of Congress scheduled for Feb. 24,” per ABC’s David Chalian. “It appears the Republicans are tearing a page out of the recent Democratic playbook of governors responding from their home states to put the anti-Washington stamp on their party’s messaging efforts.” Next from Alexandra Pelosi: “Right America: Feeling Wronged,” which debuts on HBO Monday. “Do you think that people in Hollywood know that there are a large number of people driving around America with ‘Nobama’ bumper stickers on their car?” Pelosi tells Variety’s Ted Johnson. “Or do they think that the whole world just loves Obama, because you turn on the news and you think that the whole world loves Obama.” The Kicker: “It’s much harder for him — he doesn’t have a lightsaber.” — George Lucas, explaining to Politico’s Patrick Gavin that Barack Obama still has a better chance of saving the world than Luke Skywalker. “If any of you really got me mad, I would press the button, and . . .” — President Obama, explaining the red panic button that would summon the Secret Service, in his roundtable interview with regional reporters. "It’s very relaxing to play the bad guy. Doing comedy is a lot of hard work. You can show up drunk, divorced and in a lousy mood, and the camera loves it when you’re doing a drama."
–Actor Ted Danson, who testified before Congress about off-shore drilling on Wednesday, talking to ABC News about what it’s like to play the bad guy on FX’s "Damages". Bookmark the link below to get The Note’s daily morning analysis:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/the_note/index.html For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
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User Comments

To me he lost all credibility. During the campaign he said,”no pork, no earmarks” and when you look at this bill we find Pelosi put 30 million in to save some mouse in a wet lands. So, what do you call that? I call it lying!!
He said no lobbyist will be in his cabinet, check the record there are 4.
Look at the people that had to bow out at appointments because they didn’t pay their taxes.
The people that voted for him have been sold out and it isn’t even a month in, pathetic. Same old politician, same old lies.

Posted by: vnvet69 | February 12, 2009, 8:45 am 8:45 am

It’s not what HE lost —it’s what the AMERICAN PEOPLE lost!
He’s sitting snug in the White House with his wife and kiddies and mom-in-law eating gourmet foods prepared by his chef and riding around in a state-of-the-art Cadillac limousine.
Do you really think he cares whether his SPENDING PACKAGE does any good? Well, it won’t. It just services the big guys as usual and puts the taxpayers so deep in debt we’ll never crawl out. Watch for tax increases next year.

Posted by: jenellen | February 12, 2009, 8:47 am 8:47 am

Mr. Obama lost the respect of any thinking person who believes he would government differently.
Geitner and Summers are directly out of the republican philosophy of “save the super wealthy” at all costs.

Posted by: verdinet | February 12, 2009, 8:47 am 8:47 am

This stimulus package will not stimulate the economy but will fill the pockets of a few.
Pork by any other name is pork.

Posted by: ron chapman | February 12, 2009, 8:50 am 8:50 am

BO used fear, not hope, and lied through his teeth, like every other pol to push for his big, fat, larded, Democrat spending bill. Of course there were no earmarks in his bill because every Democrat knew that no matter what crap they stuck in the bill, it would be passed. They didn’t need to hide anything. BO and his crew are no better than the Republicans they replaced.

Posted by: jimmy37 | February 12, 2009, 8:51 am 8:51 am

The last laugh will be on the Democratic clowns in Congress and the inexperienced jackass in the White House. Why? Because when Obama has to raise taxes to cover his spending, the taxpayers won’t be able to pay any tax because they DON’T HAVE A JOB!
Obama’s lies will come back to bite him and I will be first in line to watch and laugh.

Posted by: taxmeifyoucan | February 12, 2009, 8:52 am 8:52 am

Obama is a smooth operator. I did not believe his campaign rhetoric for one minute, but he sure pulled the wool over a lot of people’s eyes who followed him blindly. That reminds me of a saying, “There are none so blind as those who will not see”
Obama is going to lead this country down the tubes, but he will claim that it is still Bush’s fault. hr will never take personal responsibility for selecting idiots like Geitner who are totally clueless.
He is trying to fix the massive credit problem by using credit to solve the problem. Two wrongs never make a right. Where is the money coming from unless he borrows it from other countries or just gets the presses rolling at the mint and printing more money. Does anyone know?

Posted by: Fran | February 12, 2009, 9:00 am 9:00 am

Obama contradicted himself day after day in the campaign and he is doing the same now. First, he said “no lobbyists in my government.” hahahaha That why he’s already picked at least one who used to lobby for Raytheon. Second, he said “I’m going to CHANGE Washington and end corruption.” That’s why the appointees he chose have been proved to be guilty of not paying their taxes.
So, my liberal idiots. Who else do you have in the closet to CHANGE America???

Posted by: mcdeusentk | February 12, 2009, 9:07 am 9:07 am

To me, I think that Obama is held to a higher standard than any other president in history. No other president has had to withstand the bias and ignorance and disrespect. He is being held to never impossible, superhuman standards because people want to set the bar high so he can fail. So they can say, see, we took a chance on a person of a different background and he didn’t make it. Never mind all the ones before who had several stumbles, stumbles that are human. It is unbelievable. I applaud President Obama for keeping it all together regardless of all the countless haters who are wishing him ill and hoping he fails just because he looks different. Shows how things haven’t changed but so much in this country and speaks more to the deep set problems psyche in this country than to President Obama. He has my unwavering support and I recognize his humaness and expect change from everyone, not just him!

Posted by: Informed and Educated | February 12, 2009, 9:08 am 9:08 am

Mr. Obama lost the respect of any thinking person who believes he would government differently. >>>>>>>
I voted for this fake. I feel like a sucker.

Posted by: ChicagoBob | February 12, 2009, 9:13 am 9:13 am

Higher standard? How about just doing what you said you would do, that’s the only standard I want out of any politician.
A few mea culpa’s is all any politician is afforded in this day and age. He has had more in less than a month than most politicians.
Mean what you say, do what you say and the American people will support him.

Posted by: vnvet69 | February 12, 2009, 9:22 am 9:22 am

While America suffers, Obama celebrates with a splashy party to celebrate Lincoln!
This man thinks the Presidency is about parties, cameras, Hollywood, press conferences, TV interviews, and his ugly mug on every newspaper and magazine you look at.
Any decent person possessing even a gram of good taste would not do anything of the sort while Americans try to figure out how to feed their families.

Posted by: CHFrederickIII | February 12, 2009, 9:24 am 9:24 am

Informed and Education: You are one of the few bloggers who really make sense..I agree with you 100%. I’m so tired of people bashing him and spreading rumors….most people, face it, have not read this stimulus package, it’s how many pages? I believe he surrounds himself with smart people and economists who I really think know a bit more than the average person about economics. Everyone says send a million dollars to every citizen…do they realize how dumb they sound? No package is perfect and Pres. Obama said this, but we need to do this and pray that is helps straighten out this horrible mess he was handed by the previous administration.
We have to understand that all presidents are human, they all made mistakes. Pres. Obama is listening to everyone, asking for suggestions, and these Republicans just keep hammering the same garbage that got us into this mess the past eight years. Yes blame can be spread all around but Bush was in charge, he didn’t do a good job, now let Obama see if he can bring this country upwards. God Bless him. He is a sincere and intelligent man.

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 9:26 am 9:26 am

ChicagoBob, I didn’t drink the koolaid, I’m an Independent, maybe you should be also. You are not the only one feeling this way. Like in football, there’s always next year, right.

Posted by: vnvet69 | February 12, 2009, 9:26 am 9:26 am

Wow, look at all the rightwingers on this blog, pouring out their partisan hate. Eight years of Republican rule lead us into two wars and a tanking economy but they are terrified of Democrats being in charge? Like Democrats are going to do worse? Rightwingers want Obama to fail…because they are terrified of universal healthcare? Like the heathcare that is available in every other wealthy country including macho Australia? That will be the death of our society, people being able to go to the doctor instead of the emergency room? I am in awe of Obama. Frankly, he is even more skillful, intelligent and energetic than I thought he was.

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 9:26 am 9:26 am

He will not lose anything its the Republicans that are going to Suffer Look at the Bill its Mostly tax cuts!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 9:26 am 9:26 am

Right on: Informed and Educated!
Don’t these people, hoping he fails, so they can stand in line to be the first to laugh, get it? Who’s laughing? This isn’t funny.
My husband and I are of different parties. But we were joking back in October, that both of these guys are probably secretly hoping the other one wins. During the debates, this was our rhetoric……”NO you become President, no you become President!”
I really don’t care right now what party offiliation he is with. I want him to have “godspeed” to do something. I am not sure if any thing will help now. I knew that by the time Bush got out of office it would be bad, but I never in a million years expected it to be THIS bad. He couldn’t wait to get out………………

Posted by: scentsofroses | February 12, 2009, 9:29 am 9:29 am

How sad, pathetic and petty the Republican-types are here!! They are already lies and misinformation about Obama and showing that they, just like their counterparts in Washington, weren’t seriously willing to work with Obama and the Dems in Congress.
That’s why Obama wasn’t able to get bipartisanship on this bill…because the Republicans never had any intention of trying to find a middle ground. They were childish and wanted it their way only, otherwise they wouldn’t support anything. That’s not governing with the public’s interests in mind.
Reasonable people work through differences to reach a common sense solution, not stomp off and sulk like a child. I for one am sick of this behavior in our government.
People need to give Obama a chance to break the bad habits like the Republicans showed with this bill – remember, it’s a highly entrenched mindset that won’t be broken overnight, or even a couple of weeks. People are stupid if they though Obama could defeat this mentality with his first few bills.

Posted by: nhmtneer | February 12, 2009, 9:30 am 9:30 am

Many of my “narrow minded” conservative friends do not see how the Dems claim there is no pork in this bill. I have it figured out.
I love American History, and one of my favorite books is about Blackbeard the Pirate. As we all know, pirates sailed the sea in competition for merchant vessels. When they won a battle, they pillaged and plundered whatever ship or town they captured. Unless some of the spoils were the meat of a pig, nobody called it pork.
The Democrats have likewise fought hard and won. Now they want to enjoy the spoils of war.
There is one word of warning. People got tired of pirates, hunted them, and got rid of them. They cut off Blackbeard’s head and hung it from the ship the captured him as a warning.
http://federalistblogs.wordpress.com

Posted by: Federalistblogs | February 12, 2009, 9:31 am 9:31 am

@informed, BO came to DC at a time when American is sick and tired of Politician coruption. He came to DC at a time when the American people are hurting and need, not just something done, BUT the Correct thing done. YOU bet your ass he will be held on a higher Standard. WE ARE TIRED of the CRAP!
I did not vote for BO, but there were a something about him that impressed me in the election.
1. He seemed to be Take His time and think things through.
But, since being in office, he seems to act before thinking. Has to do things ALL in a hurry.
Another reason BO is held on a higher standard; He set that standard in the election. He set that Goal. NOW, he needs to meet it.

Posted by: ajax | February 12, 2009, 9:32 am 9:32 am

I HOPE AND PRAY HE SUCEEDS, why wouldn’t any sane person think otherwise. I just want him to do what he said during his campaign, is that so wrong?
We as a nation have become accustomed to not holding politicians accountable and Obama said as much. As the leader, we need confidence in his words and deeds. Saying one thing and doing another erodes that confidence.

Posted by: vnvet69 | February 12, 2009, 9:35 am 9:35 am

No matter what, I would rather have a president who is open and tries to do something unlike the previous administration who kept the news that we were in a recession a year ago nor did they do anything to ward off further economy problems. He may not be the perfect president, no one is, but at least he is not afraid to take a chance and do something about the economy rather than refuse to admit there are problems. The republicans have not stopped since day one criticizing him for one thing or another but where were they over the last few years? Hiding from responsibility and, oh yeah, giving tax breaks to the wealthy to help the trickle down economy which never came.

Posted by: Pat Napolitano Marietta. Ga. | February 12, 2009, 9:35 am 9:35 am

After my last blog I read the others and you are all so right. I’m so sick of the bashing also….Pres. Obama is doing a good job and I have a lot of respect for him. These Republicans don’t want to give him a chance and yes tax cuts that’s all the Repubs. They even wanted more…Sure cut taxes on people who don’t have jobs and a paycheck to cut the taxes on. We need jobs and that is what this President is trying to make….most people really don’t understand and they will just get on these blogs and make hurtful comments and they believe everything they read on websites. Do they understand people can write anything they want but that doesn’t make it true? And after eightyears, yes they are acting childish, and you think since this President is reaching out to them they would grow up and talk to him decently.

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 9:35 am 9:35 am

Did any of you see the people who attended those town hall meetings with Obama last week and this week?
They were pleading with him to get them a house or a better job.
How pathetic.
Do people have no pride?
It is not up to the govt to get you a house, it is up to you, the individual.
This is what happens when people get used to sucking on the govt teat.

Posted by: Christie | February 12, 2009, 9:38 am 9:38 am

Promises made, promises delivered. Despite what the right-wing whack-job haters are posting here, the Pres. is doing what he said. It will take time to bring along the Grand Old Poops to bipartisanism. If they can’t or won’t, they will be swept away next election when the Dems add to their majority.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 9:40 am 9:40 am

Christie: Do you realize how scared these people are? They want to work! They need better paying jobs and there are none. That’s is why the President needs this bill passed, so jobs can be created…These people need somewhere to live, they weren’t begging him to just give them a home….they want to work!!!!
Sometimes you don’t know how lucky you are until you are in these peoples’ shoes. Imagine living from paycheck to paycheck…and it’s not just poor uneducated people, educated people are losing their jobs and their homes. Who should help them? They can’t help themselves if there are no jobs!

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 9:41 am 9:41 am

Ajax
The Man Became President at a time of 2 wars,The Economy is going to H–,He is doing something. If he sat around and Ignored it like Bush and Keep telling us Everything is fine when one can see its not. What do you suggest he do Ajax?You Republicans Will cry if he dont do nothing,And then when he is trying you cry, the problem with Republicans is he is not doing it their way.THERE IS NO PORK IN THAT BILL, MOST OF THE BILL IS TAX CUTS! EDUCATION,AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 9:42 am 9:42 am

Okay all you Obama bashers. Do you all belong to the “I was abducted by an alien” club? You should try to get those probes removed, really! Obama inherited this mess and he is trying to do something to get us out of it. You are jumping on the guy and he hasn’t even been in office a month yet. He’s gotten a lot accomplished and made some very good appointments of people to his cabinet who are excellent choices-not lobbyists and tax cheats as you put it. You make it seem like that is all there is in his administration. And Bush’s gang was so pure!!! But don’t look at that. Just yell “pork” is in the recovery package. Yeah, the stimulus package is FULL of pork. Really? I didn’t know Rush Limbaugh was in it too!!

Posted by: geecee | February 12, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

People with attitudes like Christie are sickening. I have two hard working sons, both work at CAT, own their own homes, pay their bills and taxes. One was laid-off two weeks ago, the other has been informed he has until April. These men do not WANT handouts! They abhore having to go on Unemployment. They want to work! Are tax cuts going to help them? NO. The stimulus package hopefully will as road construction, bridge construction, etc. gets underway and the demand for CAT equipment returns.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

I am retired and tax cuts won’t help me much but, my wife still works. Still, I wanted to see more of what the president said HE wanted, nothing but creating jobs.
How does Pelosi adding 30 million to protect a mouse add jobs? NO PORK?

Posted by: vnvet69 | February 12, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

@nhmtneer,
hmmm.. bipartisanship. The first write up of the Bill had “$200 million more in family planning funds” which would have opened the door for more abortions.
Now, myself.. there are a lot of Republicans that have NO PROBLEM with Birth Control pills being handed out.. we have enough stupid asses in this country having babies.. but, they DO NOT AGREE THAT Abortion should be used as a “Birth Control”. Emergency, Incest, but not because.. oh.. I made a mistake ccrap.
The Dems Knew DAMNED WELL that the Republicans would not vote for that.
Here is Nancy Palosi Response to that being taken out of the Bill and it appeared to indicate she thought children were a burden to the economy.
“Well, the family-planning services reduce cost. They reduce cost,” she said on ABC.

Posted by: ajax | February 12, 2009, 9:47 am 9:47 am

I found it sad watching the people plead to the president. I think the republicans should be ashamed that they were in power and could have prevented this from happening had they taken some action. The failure of the banks and the excesses of top executives have been going on and no one stood up to them until President Obama. They hate to call him that. What people forget is that he has only been our President for one month and look at what he has done, passed the Lily Ledbetter act making women able to earn as much as a man, the children’s health care act, the closing of Guantanamo. Three promises he made to the people and now hopefully, the stimulus bill. I am tired of all the negativity out there from shows like Hannity and Limbaugh. They call themselves patriotic yet, they do not back a president who was elected by the people. Sore losers, I say.

Posted by: Pat Napolitano Marietta. Ga. | February 12, 2009, 9:48 am 9:48 am

President Obama I will keep in my prayers. He has so much on him and we know that man can’t fix this economy only God. He can’t do no worst than what has been done in the last 8 years.

Posted by: blandgreedy | February 12, 2009, 9:56 am 9:56 am

Republican right-wingers are working themselves into irrelevancy. They are continuing to be part of the problem and doing nothing to be part of the solution. The majority of Americans are finally seeing them as they are and we don’t like it.

Posted by: Liz in Texas | February 12, 2009, 9:58 am 9:58 am

The Family Planning does reduce cost as well as abortions most birth control is not covered on Private Health Insurance.The bottom line about the Republicans THEY DO NOT CARE! The only things Republicans are good at are Wars and helping the Wealthy get More Wealthy! Education is Pork,Healthcare is Pork,Jobs are Pork,Billions of dollars to Iraq ok Bailouts to wall st for Bonuses ok.

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 9:58 am 9:58 am

Yes Angie, you’re right, and why was it ok to spend billions on Iraq, bombing and killing people, then rebuilding it? And in the meantime how about rebuilding our own country? Guess it’s ok to kill thousands of our troops but not pass a bill for birth control/abortion….
in some instances there is no choice but abortion, incest, life of mother, a young girl …..the Republicans are very judgemental but not about themselves! And it was also ok to let people die during Katrina.

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 10:03 am 10:03 am

Thanks to the Republicans and their DEREGULATION Wall St has robbed us Blind, And the Peanut Factory has killed and Sickened many. All on Bushes Watch. Where was Bush for 8 Years where was the Republicans? And now they want to start Bashing President Obama And the Democrats because they are trying to clean up the Destruction they have caused PLEEEEZE GIVE ME A BREAK!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:04 am 10:04 am

At least now, we have a president who takes ownership of his problems and is willing to try to help the economy not like the republicans who have not taken ownership of the last eight years and are acting like children taking their toys and refusing to play because they lost. How are they putting the public before the party? Presient Obama inherited this mess created by them and it is time they stood up and took responsibility.

Posted by: Pat Napolitano Marietta. Ga. | February 12, 2009, 10:07 am 10:07 am

The president has won. He has got what he wants and he is going to make sure the stimulus works.
I feel sorry for Republicans. It was not a good idea to start needling the 3 Republicans who supported the plan. This was making the matter even more worse. If those 3 will continue to stick on the President’s side, Republicans will be in for it!!!!

Posted by: Rosie | February 12, 2009, 10:08 am 10:08 am

Barb
The Republicans cry and whine No big Goverment keep Goverment out of the Lives, but yet They want to tell A Woman what she can do,And they want to tell people who they can love and Marry Im talking about Same sex Marriage they are Pathetic!And yes they cry about aborition But had no Problem blowing up Babies,Children and Pregnant woman in IRAQ,Or Children that are still living with no limbs because of Bombs REPUBLICANS ARE A BUNCH OF PATHETIC HIPOCRITES!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:08 am 10:08 am

He lost all credibility, those 62 million who voted for him must feel quite foolish about now…well excpet the 99% blacks who voted for him, they expect more welfare and they will get it

Posted by: 8mile | February 12, 2009, 10:09 am 10:09 am

One of the major accomplishments of the 1990s combination of President Clinton and a Gingrich-led Republican Congress was that of welfare reform. Some may argue that it was Clinton’s plan. Others would say that the Republicans forced him to do it.Regardless of where the credit ends up, the notion and structure of the welfare program was fundamentally changed. Now, through Obama’s stimulus plan, all that work and effort may be wasted.
Posted by:
raineyzme 10:02 AMMark As Violation
Admin Link: 300
As noted in an editorial in National Review, “Democrats have inserted provisions into the catch-all stimulus bill that will reverse Clinton-era welfare reform, re-establishing the wasteful, incentive-killing system whose transformation was the bipartisan pride of the 1990s.”First, some background… Prior to the welfare reform measures promoted by Clinton and Gingrich, there was no incentive to move off the welfare rolls. Rather than a temporary station in life, welfare became a way of life.As the editorial explains, before the reforms, “the federal government simply gave the states more money for every family they added to the welfare rolls.” Of course, the states wanted all the money they could get. So, the more people on welfare, the more money for the state treasuries.The Clinton-Gingrich reforms replaced that bounty-hunter system with a flat rate for each state, based on population and other factors. That gave state-level welfare authorities a better set of incentives, encouraging them to use their resources in the most effective manner and to reserve them for the truly needy.The results were successful—spectacularly so. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act was followed by reductions in both the number of families on welfare and the rate of poverty. Single women entered the workforce in substantial numbers and the household incomes of former welfare recipients went up. In other words, the incentives to reduce welfare dependence and help people to find work, worked.The editorial points to a report by The Heritage Foundation which states that “little-noted provisions in the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate stimulus bills actually abolish this historic reform.”Authors Robert E. Rector and Katherine Bradley note that in Obama’s stimulus plan “the federal government would begin paying states bonuses to increase their welfare caseloads.”Indeed, the new welfare system created by the stimulus bills is actually worse than the old AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) program because it rewards the states more heavily to increase their caseloads. Under the stimulus bills, the federal government will pay 80 percent of cost for each new family that a state enrolls in welfare; this matching rate is far higher than it was under AFDC.Votes in the House and Senate could come as early as Thursday or Friday for the stimulus plan. As the American people slowly start to digest the impact of the massive government takeover of the economy, public opinion is starting to fall. Karl Rove points out in National Review that “CBS News polling reveals a 12-point drop in support of the bill over the past month.” A recent poll by Rasmussen Reports indicates that 67% of those surveyed believe they could do a better job on the economy than Congress.

Posted by: 8mile | February 12, 2009, 10:09 am 10:09 am

Angie..I think the gay and lesbian board is somewhere else…

Posted by: 8mile | February 12, 2009, 10:10 am 10:10 am

8 mile you are pathetic.
Angie, yes, I can’t stand when these Repubs get all worked up about birth control, and same sex marriage..who cares who a person sleeps or lives with? They are not harming anyone. I have gay friends and they are wonderful people just as my straight friends are. I’m straight but have all kinds of friends, all colors, religions, whatever…it’s what inside. God made all of us.
But it’s ok to support guns that kill people?
We have to look at important issues like jobs, the economy, healthcare…
Thank God for Pres. Obama

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 10:13 am 10:13 am

BARB
AMEN Thats right why do they care they are not hurting anyone.Guns hurt people more.Yes thank god for President Obama I am proud of him.The Republicans are going to be Extinct anyway PEOPLE ARE FED UP WITH THEM! YAHEEEEEEEEEEEE NO MORE GOP!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:18 am 10:18 am

Informed and Educated wrote: “To me, I think that Obama is held to a higher standard than any other president in history. No other president has had to withstand the bias and ignorance and disrespect.” ———– Really? What about all of the Bush-bashing that went on over the last 2-3 years?

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:19 am 10:19 am

Can anyone explain to me how this isn’t ‘trickle down economics?’ The only difference between the dem’s plan vs. the rep’s old ideals is that the money is going to the gov’t instead of businesses.

Posted by: stdntDrvr | February 12, 2009, 10:19 am 10:19 am

DRAGON
Bush Deserved that Bashing and a whole lot more the Man should be in Jail for the crimes he has commited!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:21 am 10:21 am

8 MILE
No one listens to KARL ROVE He should also be in Jail!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:23 am 10:23 am

Dragoon: The reason the Bush bashing went on the last 2-3 years is because he was in office for EIGHT YEARS and the country was in a MESS! We gave him a chance for 5-6 years, even voted him in TWICE (Not I), and he deserved every bashing he received.
Pres. Obama inherited his horrible mess and has only been in for a month!!!!You think he has a majic wand to make it all go away? Eight years of incompetence!

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 10:23 am 10:23 am

Angie, what crimes? Name one…..

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:24 am 10:24 am

BUSH
Lied put us into a war that has cost us Billions.
Deregulation Wall St has robbed us Blind
Deregulation Peanut company has Killed and Sickened many
Spied on the American people.
Failed to get Bin Laden
And you wonder why Bush got Bashed! Hes lucky thats all he got.

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:26 am 10:26 am

DRAGOOON
War Crimes,Torture, Spying on the American People. The list goes on at least I Can PROUDILY say I NEVER voted for that Man.

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:28 am 10:28 am

is any of the money from the stimulus package help the forclosure fiasco or lower mortage interest rates?

Posted by: daisy | February 12, 2009, 10:29 am 10:29 am

Angie,
- Bush failed to get Bin Laden
- So did Clinton – in fact, Clinton
had him in his grasp and let him
go.
- What American people has he spied on?
Name one and prove it instead of making things up as you go.
- What did he lie about as far as the war is concerned? Was American not attacked? Did thousands of American citizens not die?
- And now even the peanut fiasco is being blamed on Bush? Give me a break!

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:30 am 10:30 am

Angie speaking of torture, recently in Pakistan a kidnapped Polish engineer was killed by beheading. Al Qaeda and Taliban have killed several people in this fashion. And these killings are not quick deaths. I suggest you watch one of these videos to see what torture is.

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:32 am 10:32 am

Many white people voted for him also, so stop your predjudice and give the guy a chance. What are you afraid of, that he might suceed?

Posted by: Pat Napolitano Marietta. Ga. | February 12, 2009, 10:32 am 10:32 am

And I am still waiting for the name of 1 citizens that has been spied on…..

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am

The only prejudice here is coming from those that cry prejudice…..

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am

Pat, right on! People like dragoon are sick…all they do is complain when they don’t get their way…instead of trying to stand behind our Pres. and help this country. And I hate the racist remarks he makes….we all are God’s children.

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am

DRAGOON
You are wrong My friend,about 4 years ago They Had Bin Laden and let him go,There WAS NO WMD IN IRAQ, And IRAQ had nothing to do with 911,and there was a special on Dateline How Bush was spying on Military Personal and them on the Phone with Family Listening in.As far as the Peanut Fiasco goes If there was REGULATION then Maybe it would have not happened, The Workers of the Peanut plan alerted the Fda 3 years ago about it Nothing was done NO REGUALTION!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:38 am 10:38 am

Barb, there is no point in talking to liberals like you or Pat. You do not get YOUR way, and cry racism and prejudice. Show me one racist remark in my post, along with the names of Americans that have been spied on….

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:39 am 10:39 am

8 mile was the one who made racist remarks…he is one angry person.

Posted by: Barb | February 12, 2009, 10:40 am 10:40 am

DRAGOOON
So you are suggesting we as the United States should Be like the Taliban and Alqaeda and Torture? We are suppose to be better then that

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:41 am 10:41 am

DRAGOON
The People in the Military were Spied on, I dont know their Names but their Phone calls to Home to their Love ones were being Listened too!

Posted by: Angie | February 12, 2009, 10:42 am 10:42 am

Military personnel. Plleeeeeasse! I am retired military. Phone conversations from Navy ships, and from military bases are monitored to ensure that military personnel are not talking about things that could cost people their lives. This is standard practice in the military and was before Bush was even a gleam in Bush seniors eyes. Try again!

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:43 am 10:43 am

Barb wrote: “DRAGOOON
So you are suggesting we as the United States should Be like the Taliban and Alqaeda and Torture? We are suppose to be better then that” — We are better than that. I haven’t seen any reports of the U.S. sawing anybodys heads off, have you?

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 10:46 am 10:46 am

“What did he lie about as far as the war is concerned? Was American not attacked? Did thousands of American citizens not die?”
You’re just playing dumb here, right?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 10:47 am 10:47 am

Well we have finally arrived. We have a stimulis that will actually “BREAK” the working class.Watch for the hammer to fall on Medicare & Medicade for the people who built the system. Look for the handouts to the people that set at home and smoke their “CRACK” and do their drugs while receiving their “STIMULIS” checks right along with the money people who have abused the working class for so many years that we are now broke. People that pushed so hard for this wonderful program are going to find that there are many hidden features that were not exposed at the time our leaders (Dems & Reps alike)aloud this to happen.Of course the “wonderful Leaders” will say this is what the people wanted. Nancy Pelosi will be able to feed, dress, and give medical care to her “ILLEGALS” who will surely re-elect her because she is giving them something and they don’t even have to look for a job. She can give more money to the Tuna Company where her husband works and holds stock.She will be able to help California the State that has a shortfall of 50 Billion dollars, because,of her spread the wealth policy’s.I can’t understand why working people are required to have drug testing to keep teir jobs, while, the people receiving assistance are not ask to do the same.Within a year you will find that we are going to get hit with the largest tax increases ever, because, we wanted this stimulis package.When we have no working class left do you think our leaders and the wealthy are going to support us. One thing is certain there are about 345 people in Washington that are not facing losing their paychecks or even voting a reduction in pay to help with the problem.

Posted by: Don Park | February 12, 2009, 10:54 am 10:54 am

dragoon70056
Er, dragoon70056…military and also Red Cross workers calling their families back home. Private and intimate conversations were transcribed and passed around as entertainment. Maybe not the worst thing to happen to a citizen, but my objection with the Bush wiretapping is it sets up a dangerous precedent. I can easily see a Cheney-type President (could even be a Democratic version of Cheney)in our future wiretapping dissents and political opponents. Can’t you?
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/10/nation/na-intel10

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 10:57 am 10:57 am

Wire tapping was going on long before Bush….

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 11:02 am 11:02 am

Don Park, I couldn’t get all the way through your post, but I will say three things. Only people who file will get stimulus checks. Cocaine is used by people across all demographics. And how do illegals vote for Pelosi?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 11:02 am 11:02 am

Wire tapping is going on now under Obama…….

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 11:02 am 11:02 am

Wiring tapping will go on long after Obama has been voted out for bankrupting the country….

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 11:03 am 11:03 am

Don’t Blame me. I voted for McCain. I am a democrat and i knew that Obama was full of BS.

Posted by: Peace Train | February 12, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

Don’t Blame me. I voted for McCain. I am a democrat and i knew that Obama was full of BS.

Posted by: Peace Train | February 12, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

This is 100% theater….There was no reason for Obeyme to tour on Air Force 1….costing us …What?…to ‘sell’ this screwing….Come on!! weve all known he had the votes from the git go…I just can’t believe so many Americans are this gullible.
O’bla bla just loves to ‘showboat’…
I would love to see this turn out as a clear picture that this failed miserably….but more likely America will rebound in spite of this oppressive debt He’s putting on the country…But make no mistake…Obama will take credit for it.
The ‘clear’ picture will emerge when our taxes are raised to an oppressive level…..
I resent the media that cares more about their own celebrity careers…rather than doing their jobs..

Posted by: J Moore | February 12, 2009, 11:20 am 11:20 am

Angie–”You are wrong My friend,about 4 years ago They Had Bin Laden and let him go,There WAS NO WMD IN IRAQ, And IRAQ had nothing to do with 911,and there was a special on Dateline How Bush was spying on Military Personal and them on the Phone with Family Listening in ” — Its you who are wrong.. 4 years ago (it was actaully over 5 years ago) members of the Afgan freedom fighters who worked hand in hand with our troops “thought” they had Bin laden cornered in Tora Bora – however, when our troops arrived for support it was determined that while bin laden might have been there earlier, he was not at that time.. In the insuing fight, several dozen of the taliban were captured or killed, but no bin laden… Interestingly, it was used as election fodder in Kerry’s run against bush even though he was on the intelligence committee and knew it wasn’t true.. HOWEVER — Clinton had three opportunities to capture Bin Laden prior to 9/11 but did not..in one case, his inaction cost the lives of several dozen freedom fighters and jepordized our alliance with them..True that no WMDs were found in Iraq.. but with the porous border shared with pakistan, there is no proof that they were not there to begin with… AND Hussain was givne 14 chences by the UN to adhere to the inspections properly .. had he done so, then there would never have been an assumption that he was hiding something.. Here’s the true picture.. had we only gone to afganistan and the taliban had fled not to the mountains where they are now, but to Iraq.. and had there actaully been WMDs as many suspected, then we would have essentially chaced our enemy to where they could get there hands on more destructive weapons to use against us.. Not a chance I think we should have taken… hindsight is 20/20, but the precautions were warrented whether anyone agrees at this point or not…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 11:24 am 11:24 am

“Wire tapping was going on long before Bush….”
yes, and waterboarding was deemed too cruel to use on Nazis during WWII, so the army banned its use until the Bush administration revived it.
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing (or vote Republican.)

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 11:25 am 11:25 am

Angie–”Goverment out of the Lives, but yet They want to tell A Woman what she can do,And they want to tell people who they can love and Marry Im talking about Same sex Marriage they are Pathetic!And yes they cry about aborition But had no Problem blowing up Babies,Children and Pregnant woman in IRAQ,Or Children that are still living with no limbs because of Bombs REPUBLICANS ARE A BUNCH OF PATHETIC HIPOCRITES!” thats apples and oranges.. You can’t compare any civilian laws or philosopies religated to what is considered just and fair in a peace time society to what goes on in war.. War is intended to achieve a goal through destruction. Civil society laws are intended to protect the people.. So you believe in abortion.. okay, but many consider it murder of a living being…if its murder, its criminal. As far as same sex marriage is concerned, for over 200 years the law has recognized the contract of marriage based on the religious aspects of that contract.. should a same sex couple be allowed a civil union and be entitled to the same benefits of other couples.. if a STATE so decides, then yes. But if the federal government forces states to recognize “marriage” which is a religious contract between two people of the same sex against the will of the majority of the people in that state, then the government is exacting itsself on religious beliefs..Surely you believe (as i assume you are liberal) in the separation of church and state? Why is it okay to tell religious people in a free society that they can not pray in schools, or post nativities on court house lawns, but its also okay to say you MUST accept a “marriage” that goes againt your religious beliefs.. you can’t have it both ways…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 11:34 am 11:34 am

Silky –”Don Park, I couldn’t get all the way through your post, but I will say three things. Only people who file will get stimulus checks. Cocaine is used by people across all demographics. And how do illegals vote for Pelosi?”– 1.) not true — the senate has passed a rider that allows the “stimulus” checks to be tied to a tax id number.. not a social security number.. if yo9ur employer filed a w-4 on you.. even if you are not a citizen and even if you did not file taxes, you can use your pid to get a rebate. 2.) Illegals in her state and several others can use the “motor voter” laws to vote.. basically, if the state allows illegals to get a drivers licence, and has motor voter registration ( which allows you to register when applying for or renewing your licence) then anyone applying for a licence whether citizen or not, can register to vote..

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 11:40 am 11:40 am

“To me he lost all credibility. During the campaign he said,”no pork, no earmarks” and when you look at this bill we find Pelosi put 30 million in to save some mouse in a wet lands. So, what do you call that? I call it lying!!”
I call it campaigning. And I also call it the legislative branch’s domain to draft legislation. He was declaring his wish to rid bills of earmarks, but the President doesn’t draft bills. Just a heads up.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Lets not forget -you Hooverrites come to this site to complain that this administration is not doing an adequate job of fixing the problems you and your ilk-including these reporters supported-and problems YOU created…what are YOU doing besides complaining???pork the likes of which we have never seen happened over the last 8 years..you haven’t read the stimulus package…you are just quating the notable, bloatable, floating balloon-Rush

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 11:42 am 11:42 am

Obama and his administration need our prayers becuase he is rolling the dice with this country’s future. Even Biden said that this stimulus has a 30% chance of failure and that fact that Giethner is using new stategies is scary.
I think is it pretty obviuos that people want things to work out. However, there still appears to be an enormous lack of confidence in the markets as eveidenced by the steady decline of the DOW. Many people are invested in Wall Street in one way or another and may not realize it. One thing is certain, people are suffering and gambling with taking on more debt has proven to be a failed strategy. Didn’t the Bush administration prove that? We continue failed policies? Where the change?

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 11:42 am 11:42 am

barb: ….most people, face it, have not read this stimulus package, it’s how many pages?….. nor have the democrats or republicans read through the pages. Maybe if they would the outcame would be different.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 12, 2009, 11:46 am 11:46 am

“1.) not true — the senate has passed a rider that allows the “stimulus” checks to be tied to a tax id number.. not a social security number.. if yo9ur employer filed a w-4 on you.. even if you are not a citizen and even if you did not file taxes, you can use your pid to get a rebate.”
Okay, you don’t have to “file”, but everybody, save for maybe like 10 people, have paid federal income tax at that point. So, technically, no you don’t have to file, but everybody who is eligible has paid. The idea that all these people are kicking it, smoking crack, and getting a check is ridiculous.
And the motor voter thing…I can’t find any numbers, but I can tell you that there isn’t much of an illegal population at all in Pelosi’s district. Illegals have NOTHING to do with her presence in Congress.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 11:51 am 11:51 am

If Mr Obama cant say possitive things in regards to the economy please stay in the white house and dont come out. But please dont say anything! This would help more than what your doing visiting states to tell us how bad it is! Please dont come out!

Posted by: frank | February 12, 2009, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm

Silky–”Okay, you don’t have to “file”, but everybody, save for maybe like 10 people, have paid federal income tax at that point. So, technically, no you don’t have to file, but everybody who is eligible has paid.” –Like 10 people?? are you kidding..do you know how many millions of non citizens ( documented and undocumented alike) are currently in this country? How many of them got jobs in which their bossentered a pid to alleviate the tax burdens of the company.. they don’t care whether or not a particular employees actually files or not, but the pid lets them declare the wages to reduce their tax burden.. now all these folks whether they actaully made enough to file or not are eligible for a rebate..—”I can’t find any numbers, but I can tell you that there isn’t much of an illegal population at all in Pelosi’s district. California has over 20 million illegals.. and that is not counted the documented workers.. still think that none are in Pelosci’s district??—Finally –”I call it campaigning. And I also call it the legislative branch’s domain to draft legislation. He was declaring his wish to rid bills of earmarks, but the President doesn’t draft bills. Just a heads up.”– Since I am taking the word of all liberals who keep telling me he is qualified for the job, that would mean he has a basic understanding of how legislation works..then he knew before hand that he would have no control over the “pork” right? that makes his campaign statement an intentional lie..again you can’t have it both ways..

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:13 pm 12:13 pm

Over the last 6 months the republicans did nothing to stop the freefall and loss of jobs-thats not a plan-thats a hole with your butt sticking out-the politics of an ostrich..what they did do was try to shore up banks that we thought were failing-now those same banks sat in frount of the banking comittee and said we did’nt ask the government for money-they came to us and asked us to take the money…WHERE are the stories on this????ABC???

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 12:14 pm 12:14 pm

All anyone needs to know is that NOT ONE CONGRESSMAN has even read this thing. And the President obviously hasn’t read it and NEVER WILL. When he was lying (campaigning) he said no bill would ever be voted on until it was on the White House web site for 5 days. LIE. The one from the Senate was sent out at 11PM on a Saturday and was voted on on Monday. Now this thing has morphed again, ALL OF THE PORK IS STILL IN IT. One day OB says “every bill has earmarks in it” the next day he says this one doesn’t. LIE??? His press guy even tried to change the meanings of the words to defend this boob. Less than 1/3 of Americas think this is a good bill. so the question is how do 97% of the Democrats is Congress think it is good and vote for it? PORKY PIGS, vote them all out so they can lobby OB for more pork. I wish this thing was smarter and favorer, but I knew from his smooth talking car saleman BS from the start, he was going to be bad, very, very bad.

Posted by: Tony T | February 12, 2009, 12:17 pm 12:17 pm

cowgirl –”Lets not forget -you Hooverrites come to this site to complain that this administration is not doing an adequate job of fixing the problems you and your ilk-including these reporters supported-and problems YOU created…what are YOU doing besides complaining???pork the likes of which we have never seen happened over the last 8 years..you haven’t read the stimulus package…” — First, I HAVE read the “stimulus” package.. Have you? and second.. How did republicans “create” these problems?? name one republican who stood up in suport of the deregulation that caused this problem.. I can give you at leat 6 PROMINENT democrats who refuced to do anything to fix the problem when republicans started sounding the alarm in early 2006. If you are going to balme this on republicans.. then bring ammo.. because whether you like it or not.. this is a democrat created problem and the answers they are pushing now will only make it worse far far worse…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:17 pm 12:17 pm

How does bashing A-Rod and absolving Geithner not pose a double standard and hypocrisy?
“Obama Out In Left Field, Out Of His League”
lvironpigs.wordpress.com
This guy says hero-worshippers are welcome to bash him all they like!

Posted by: Fraud Alert | February 12, 2009, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

how can we impeech this guy hes a failure talk about bush spending this guy has spent more money than all presidents put together in his first 30 days hes gonna spend the other 350 billion bush did not spend plus this 850 billion and then he wanats 2 trillion to spend at wallstreet obama go home

Posted by: david reyes | February 12, 2009, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

I think this is a very good commentary…. I don’t know how much passing this will help. Economies go through cycles. I read this interesting article on
http://www.recessioninfocenter.com
on previous recessions. We just need to adjust I guess.

Posted by: jeff | February 12, 2009, 12:22 pm 12:22 pm

Amy–”yes, and waterboarding was deemed too cruel to use on Nazis during WWII, so the army banned its use until the Bush administration revived it.
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing (or vote Republican.)” — actually your not correct again.. waterboarding has nver been declared torture by geneva.. the army has not used it because we have not maintianed any POW camps since WW2. it is still used on our own troops (Army rangers and navy seals) as part of their survival training — thats right we do it to our own folks as training.. and finally the same man who you quoted also said that ” the tree of liberty must occassionaly be watered with the blood of tyrants” I think your quote serves MY argument better than yours…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:22 pm 12:22 pm

The hooverites have been in charge the last 8 years with majorities for the last 6 0f 8-anything the democrats got before the president was vetoed everything the republican congress put before the president was rubber stamped. Incompetance was rampant in every dept of the bush admin. The mantra was look the other way-regulations were not enforced…whistle blowers were turned away.see no evil..speak no evil..see no evil..You lost-America won get used to it. I am POed that the bill was watered down..I wanted the “buy American clause in it-I wanted 1 job to create 10 down the line-yea, i think the compromise sucked. now is the time to stick to your guns so this succeeds-money to the states..they know where it needs to be spent…

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

cowgirl–”Over the last 6 months the republicans did nothing to stop the freefall and loss of jobs-thats not a plan-thats a hole with your butt sticking out-the politics of an ostrich..what they did do was try to shore up banks that we thought were failing-now those same banks sat in frount of the banking comittee and said we did’nt ask the government for money-they came to us and asked us to take the money…–” and what did the democrats who had controlling majorities in both the house and senate do?? Answer nothing.. just the same measures to
the banks.. more importantly, what did Reid, Wrangle, Dodd, Franks, and Pelosci do in 2006 when 8 republicans testified that the mortgage industry was in trouble because of the deregulation–answer they supported Franklin Raines at Fannie, and expressed contempt at republicans for their accusations against Fanni and Freddie and claimed it waa merely a republican attempt to deny lower income citizens from owning their own home…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm

Looks like the days of the American Dream are over. Anyone who has tried to start a new business understands the regulatory barriers that must first be negotiated. There’s seemingly no end to the paperwork, licensing and permit expenses and inspections required for compliance with the laws. Then if you make too much money the government will take it away for redistribution. The government tells you who you can hire and fire and how much pay and benefits they’ll get. That house you bought in the suburbs will soon belong to the government. You’ll be able to have a car, but it will be the kind the government says you can drive. The government will raise and school your children with whatever values they want the children to cling to from the time they can walk and provide healthcare too, so all the single moms and dads won’t be all stressed by their mistakes. And everyone can have a college degree. Life will be grand as long as you qualify. All you’ll have to do is comply with government standards. Free at last.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm

Cowgirl –”The hooverites have been in charge the last 8 years with majorities for the last 6 0f 8-anything the democrats got before the president was vetoed everything the republican congress put before the president was rubber stamped”– tis president only vetoed 9 pieces of legislation in 8 years, clinton vetoed 483… once again you have displayed a stunning lack of the facts.. I am going out on a limb here and guessing you are not old enough to remember the last time we tried “spending” our way out of a recession.. do a little research on the Carter years…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm

No one ever accused this guy of being wise – just arrogant, obfuscating and politically expedient! :(
Politicians love a crisis – real – or imagined – huge or pumped up!
And the democrats are using the economic downturn they created with their housing debacle to force more big brother programs down lazy, stupid, apathetic or panicked people’s throats! :(

Posted by: aware2u | February 12, 2009, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm

Do you people not understand the hammer thats gonna drop on you?????
When others have written about your taxes going up….do you think this is just their opinion?
Do you think there’s a possibility that it WONT happen????
It’s a 100% FACT!!!
Two years from now it will start, but slowly it will increase….until we all will be paying 40% 45% in income taxes….Europeans pay this amount NOW..Thanks to their socialist governments….
There IS no other way to repay this debt Obama is conning you into accepting…..
I wonder how many of you will be pleased about paying for the bridge in a state 1000 miles away…
I won’t even mention the really ridiculas pork that you so blindly accept now…..
You will wish you had never heard of Obama….
As for me…I won’t be spending …I’ll be saving to offset the 10 to 20% more of my income that I will be paying.

Posted by: J Moore | February 12, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm

arkie vet
Churches and other religious institutions would NOT be required to perform marriage ceremonies between homosexuals if gay marriage is legalized. To force ministers, rabbis and priests to contradict their beliefs would violate the separation of church and state.
Legalizing marriage between homosexuals does not apply to religious ceremonies.
I don’t approve of gambling and drinking, but it doesn’t impinge on my religious beliefs if others drink and gamble. You probably violate my religious principles on a regular basis, but I’m not going to discriminate against you in retaliation. I’ll just continue to look down on you.

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

Jimmy; After the government has invested in all the major businesses, the stock values will all go to $0.000,000,000,000. The government will need any and all profits earned by the formerly private sector to fuel the New Society.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

cowgirl–”i think the compromise sucked. now is the time to stick to your guns so this succeeds-money to the states..they know where it needs to be spent…”— even that comment shows your lack of knowledge on the subject, in the ORIGINAL (not watered down as you prefess) version, only about 12 cents on the dollar went to infrastructure and tax relief.. 88 cents of every dollar went to special interests and pay for play… This bill would have done NOTHING to right the economy and the new bill won’t either, it will just do nothing for a litle less money…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm

Arkie Vet
“A former Navy survival instructor subjected to waterboarding as part of his military training told Congress yesterday that the controversial tactic should plainly be considered torture and that such a method was never intended for use by U.S. interrogators because it is a relic of abusive totalitarian governments.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/08/AR2007110802150_pf.html

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

I am an Independent, and I repeat: No one ever accused this guy of being wise – just arrogant, obfuscating and politically expedient! :(
Politicians love a crisis – real – or imagined – huge or pumped up!
And the democrats are using the economic downturn they created with their housing debacle to force more big brother programs down lazy, stupid, apathetic or panicked people’s throats! :(
Obama is just another manipulating, fear-mongering, lying politician attempting to keep the far left-wing happy while he enjoys the perks of the job! :(

Posted by: aware2u | February 12, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

Amy–”Legalizing marriage between homosexuals does not apply to religious ceremonies”– Actually it does, its not a matter of whether or not a particualr church performs these ceremonies.. but rather that these “marriages” are legally accepted as binding.. Marriage is a religious ceremony..one thats recognized as legally binding. If my religious beliefs are that same sex relationships are wrong.. and I attend a church that does not support same sexc marriage.. but the government TELLS me i must recognize a “marriage” from a church that does perform these ceremonies, how is the government NOT infringeing on my religious principles..?

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

Amy; Good 12:37 post.Never heard it put quite that way, “I’ll just continue to look down on you.” Funny stuff! Waterboarding can be fun if it’s done right. Consenting adults should not be judged about what happens in the privacy of their own homes.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

cowgirl: see what the democrats have accomplished in 2 years that the republicans could not do in 6 years.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 12, 2009, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

Arkie Vet; Marriage is a civil matter. Holy matrimony is a religious matter with the civil implication of being married. A deputy circuit court clerk can do the marriage thing, but holy matrimony is a contract with God between two of His children.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 12:53 pm 12:53 pm

ANGIE, BARB AND AMY are either the same person or paid bloggers. why do they always come on here together at the same time, accusing republicans of being partisan when all they do is spew democratic propoganada day in day out. what sad girls (or boys) you are.

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 12:58 pm 12:58 pm

“Like 10 people?? are you kidding..do you know how many millions of non citizens ( documented and undocumented alike) are currently in this country? How many of them got jobs in which their bossentered a pid to alleviate the tax burdens of the company.. they don’t care whether or not a particular employees actually files or not, but the pid lets them declare the wages to reduce their tax burden.. now all these folks whether they actaully made enough to file or not are eligible for a rebate.”
Many of those people are paid under the table. And of those who aren’t, you’re telling me that federal income tax isn’t taken from their regular paychecks? No payroll taxes?
“California has over 20 million illegals.. and that is not counted the documented workers.. still think that none are in Pelosci’s district??”
I didn’t say none. I said not enough to have an impact on the result of an election. Not even close. I spent 6 years in San Francisco. I voted for her. I know that city and I can assure you that there are not enough “illegals” in SF to have an impact on an election, let alone enough who are actually going to go through the motor voter process to vote illegally. The bulk of the “illegals” population is in southern California and on farms, mostly on the coast and the central valley.
“Since I am taking the word of all liberals who keep telling me he is qualified for the job, that would mean he has a basic understanding of how legislation works..then he knew before hand that he would have no control over the “pork” right? that makes his campaign statement an intentional lie..again you can’t have it both ways..”
I think it is his intention to eliminate as much pork as possible. This was not a “read my lips” pledge, by any stretch. Did he ever say he would veto any legislation with pork on it? I don’t recall hearing him say that.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

Arkie vet
The church I belong to does not approve of gambling. Gambling is legal. I drive by a Beano (Maine’s version of Bingo) site every day. Is having to look at that parking lot full of sinners every day a violation of my religious rights?
I’m also not crazy about the Maine Lottery raising money for the state through scratch tickets. Is it a violation of my religious rights to have the state raise money through gambling?

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 1:03 pm 1:03 pm

“When others have written about your taxes going up….do you think this is just their opinion?
Do you think there’s a possibility that it WONT happen????
It’s a 100% FACT!!!”
You could use a refresher on the definition of the word “fact.”

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:04 pm 1:04 pm

Rick; You ask the question “what did Obama lose in the package?” My question is what did the individual lose in the package?

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm

“My question is what did the individual lose in the package?”
It’s way too early to call that putt.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:06 pm 1:06 pm

Angie:….. You are wrong My friend,about 4 years ago They Had Bin Laden and let him go……would you please tell us where that was??????

Posted by: Lizzie | February 12, 2009, 1:06 pm 1:06 pm

Cowgirl said: Over the last 6 months the republicans did nothing to stop the freefall and loss of jobs-thats not a plan
Love – you sound really stupid making comments like this. When you finish highschool and get in the real world you’ll understand that a downturn/recession means joblosses. you cant keep inflating something when it needs a natural correction (thats part of an economic cycle). Obama is not doing us any favours supporting this spending bill. Its too much spending of money we dont have, and doesnt do enough to fix the problems we have with housing. But I hear thats to come later this month in yet another stimulus package. This spending bill is politics as usual and just the same as what what was going on over the past 8 years. There has been no change

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:06 pm 1:06 pm

markets are tanking again. Obama does nothing to fill the business world with any confidence. I have to ask him, who will pay for your pork spending bill now if you havent got investors investing money here ????

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:09 pm 1:09 pm

You Dem haters,what fools you are. We have a sincere person who cares about improving things in a country that may not survive the republican mess of the last 8 years.He faces such difficult challenges and has an understanding and the intellect that can help us survive. Can’t imagine McCain in there thinking the economy is strong. Vote democratic each election and rid us of the greedy, immoral, corrupt republicans. Middle class needs to wake up and control the country with the vote.

Posted by: Frank | February 12, 2009, 1:12 pm 1:12 pm

Lou, you are right, all three or one, have a script in front of them and they follow it to the T. Throw enough sh….. against the wall some will stick. If you ask them to back their claims, they change the subject.Cowgirl has the same script.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 12, 2009, 1:15 pm 1:15 pm

Lou
I post comments on here in between answering the phone at work, and the other rote duties I perform. It keeps my mind active.
I can’t speak for Angie or Barb, but its just stunning to me to read these rightwing posts – to me THEY sound like paid posters or Rush dittoheads, spreading lies and misinformation. That’s why I feel compelled to argue back. (Except against monroeliveson, who sounds like a nice guy with his own point of view.)
Gee I wish I could get paid for this.

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 1:16 pm 1:16 pm

Silky; Not a putt. It’s at least a three iron follwed by a hard dog leg left.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 1:20 pm 1:20 pm

Amy, if your getting paid for answering phones and other things, you must have a lot of time on your hands, so if you work for the PRIVATE INDUSTRY here is the question: can your job be eliminated?????????????

Posted by: Lizzie | February 12, 2009, 1:22 pm 1:22 pm

$50 million for habitat restoration and other water needs in the San Francisco Bay Area
Do you think Nancy Pelosi added this in???? Why cant i get 50million for habitat restoration in my area. Are you getting it now, this bill is full of pet projects for Dems that they have been wanting to get out for years. this is not stimulating the economy. put that money into the housing industry and you will get the economy rolling again.

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm

Silky; It’s guarded by deep bunkers an the right and left too.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm

Lizzie
“If you ask them to back their claims, they change the subject.”
example of when I haven’t backed a “claim”?
PS how’s your mother? (I couldn’t resist)

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 1:24 pm 1:24 pm

$40 Million for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health to carry out research activities within the National Occupational Research Agenda.
Again, not stimulating the economy

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:26 pm 1:26 pm

$600 Million Dollars for acquiring motor vehicles with higher fuel economy
This can wait i think. If the economy is about to enter a catastrophe, then governmetn spending on new cars with this spec can probably wait

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm

“can your job be eliminated????????????? ”
Probably. But, then again, I have a second job at night, so I will be OK. Thanks for your concern.

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm

“Don Park, I couldn’t get all the way through your post, but I will say three things. Only people who file will get stimulus checks. Cocaine is used by people across all demographics. And how do illegals vote for Pelosi?”—————–The same way ALCORN manages to get deceased people registered to vote!

Posted by: dragoon70056 | February 12, 2009, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

You Dem haters,what fools >>>> Yeah I am a fool I voted for Obama and now feel like a complete fool. His presidency has been a disaster. The economy is in the tank. Consumer confidence is OBAMA’s job rating. Thats in the tank as well. DOW in the tank. I feel so much better that I am now out of a job since Obama took office that I had for over 7 years. Change is right. I am now unemployed Great job Obama you told us things are terrible now I dont have a job..

Posted by: ChicagoBob | February 12, 2009, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

Amy – if you work as much as you say you do (?) then are you happy about your tax dollars being spent in such a wasteful way as i have mentioned above? I dont see anybody commenting on this?

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm

“Silky; It’s guarded by deep bunkers an the right and left too.”
With greens as hard and fast as a Jersey hooker.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm

$2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research)
$2 billion for a “clean coal” power plant in Illinois (oh, wonder who wanted this grant to go through????)

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm

Best stimulus- if banks borrow or are given money from the gov’t, they MUST use at least 75% of it to make consumer loans available at interest rates no higher than 4%. That would allow people to consolidate debt, pay it off at reasonable rates, have money to save and put probably billions back into the economy. The banks would still make a profit and would be forced to operate more efficiently and have less to spend on obscene bonuses, stadium namings, and corporate jets.

Posted by: bythesea52 | February 12, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm

chicago bob-the reason you don’t have a job is that–you are an idiot….see post above

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

Tisk, tisk. You noticed the holes in the script.

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

Jimmy; In the interest of supporting our neighborhood terrorists, we should just be looking at terrorists as criminals instead of soldiers if we want to figure out what to do with the ones we have in custody. All terrorists should all be wanted dead or alive and considered armed and dangerous. Keep in mind the dead ones can’t talk or escape and it costs a lot less money to bury than prosecute. Even the young ones just blow up so quick anymore.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | February 12, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

Yeah, damn that irrational scientific community with all their crazy global warming evidence.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm

$400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
$34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters
$500 million for improvement projects for National Institutes of Health facilities
$44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters
$350 million for Agriculture Department computers
$88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building”
Just noting these is useless. You’re neglecting the why, the how, the how much it will save, etc.
Posted by: silky
________________________________________
Iwonder how “buddies” of the politicians are going to get these contracts.

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm

Informed & Educated: you should change your moniker to Ignorant & Uneducated: Stop making this about race! Obama did not win the election with black votes alone – he couldn’t have. The only ones responsible for Obama being held to higher standards than any other president are his campaign managers, the mainstream media and OBAMA himself – they are the ones who annointed him the “messiah”.

Posted by: NewYorker | February 12, 2009, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm

“Iwonder how “buddies” of the politicians are going to get these contracts.”
Not many. This isn’t the Bush administration.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm

Silky – the only reaction we are getting is we havent read the bill and are complaining and putting the lives of americans at risk. I’m telling you now that i know whats in the bill, and if this country is heading for a catastrophe (as Obama mentioned) then why do these pet projects HAVE to be done now. why not let the markets correct themselves,and create a smart spending bill that only fixes the economy, and then put through the hideous spending spree. I guess Rahm was right, they cant let a crisis go to waste

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm

These people who think that Obama won because he’s black, particularly if they cite the black vote, immediately flag themselves as clueless.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:43 pm 1:43 pm

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 1:44 pm 1:44 pm

sorry Lou guess you are unemployed if you work in the investment business..but then-you would be part of the problem -not the solution-and since my qualifications trump yours-work for the asst US attorney-small business(2) owner and college grad…don’t think i am just that into you….

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm

Silky – are you serious, you think it was only the bush admin that would give jobs to friends. Have you heard about the Unions and how far up obamas butt they are??? i can almost guarantee that the construction jobs will go to unions, and pelosi’s friends and contributers will also be looked after. thats how dems work. ARe you really that blinded by love for Obama that you dont see any flaws in democrats??
Dont you also find it strange that its mainly democratic areas that are getting the funding. Pelosi is corrupt and is a complete idiot who should not be in the position she’s in.

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:46 pm 1:46 pm

Cowgirl – you dont sound intelligent enough to hold a job like that. Sorry, but you sound like a 17 year old school kid.

Posted by: Lou | February 12, 2009, 1:48 pm 1:48 pm

President Obama got down to business and got a bill through a Congress that has been dithering for years on the business of the PEOPLE! The markets are tanking because they did not get a FREE RIDE from this President/ Admin like they did the last ones, paulsen and Bush!
It would be interesting if all these bashers were to spend one week in the envirions of the House and Senate. It is like a feedlot in west Texas! All the cattle rush to be feed but do nothing to get the feed…Totally dependent on the handouts from the back of the truck!
We need term limits for these yokals…That would eliminate all the committees and sub committees– which are only little fifedoms of illusionary power!
We have never seen a clean bill out them and the fact that 90% of this monster is to aide the real people in a time of crisis is a rare accomplishment!
Be grateful this is not a total repub debackle like the wrote for the last 14 of 16 years that got us to this Economic mess.
Go home — read about what it REALLY takes to get a bill through Congress and who writes them…How they are trading favors and aides insert BS into the Bills that are seldom- if ever- read by the Representaives or Senators…
Thank God for the attempt to change..One step forward is more than has been made by any Administration in the past 5 presidents..
Oh, and Rove has mush for brains if he forgets we are not at WAR on three fronts! Afghan, Iraq, and Terror!

Posted by: bink | February 12, 2009, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm

“Iwonder how “buddies” of the politicians are going to get these contracts.”
Not many. This isn’t the Bush administration.
Posted by: silky
________________________________________
So wait, you are telling me that not one Democrat is corrupt. If you believe that then I would like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge because that kind of thinking is either naive or ignorant.

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm

Cowgirl – you dont sound intelligent enough to hold a job like that. Sorry, but you sound like a 17 year old school kid.
Posted by: Lou
______________________________________
TRUE!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 1:51 pm 1:51 pm

“ARe you really that blinded by love for Obama that you dont see any flaws in democrats??”
Not at all. We’ll see. He says there is going to be tracking and accountability and that contracts will see a competitive RFP process.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:53 pm 1:53 pm

“So wait, you are telling me that not one Democrat is corrupt.”
Um…where did you see that? Settle down, Jimmy.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

sorry Lou I lost several pension plans in oct and nov…have no sympathy for the markets-they zeroed out..I have been a registered independant my whole life but had to switch to dem to vote for Hillary in the primarys..My first presidential campaign was for Bobby Kennedy..I wouldn’t trust my first instincts if I was you….your decifering skills need some boning up..now would be a good time to go back to school for some retraining-try to find the positives in a bad economy. I started a couple of on-line businesses to suppliment my income…

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 1:55 pm 1:55 pm

It is laughable to read the comments about how Obama has lost all respect, that’s funny…
It is easy to read within the comments that he simply never had the respect of those making such claims…
Obama is doing exactly what he has said he would do and I am completely happy with this President…
It is so obvious that there are certain people out there that really want to see him fail and will do all the things that they usually do to bring only the most negative perspectives into to view.
For me, all I have to do is to think of the alternative of McCain who didn’t notice the economy was headed towards the toilet and pig girl with her brood wondering through the halls of the WH.
At least Obama is trying to get stuff done. And yea, it’s going to take money that we don’t have – to reinvest in our country to make it work… Which really should not be a problem for the GOP since they did their fair share of spending money that we didn’t have… Now they are asking where is the money coming from… I’d say it’s coming from the same place the GOP was getting it from…
And I agree with Frank,,,
I see a person who is sincere about his job as President and he means to do his best.
And for those that would knock me because I support this President,
I know exactly how you feel, because I feel it every time I read comments that lavishly praise Bush…for the last 8 yrs.

Posted by: braith morgan | February 12, 2009, 1:55 pm 1:55 pm

“are you happy about your tax dollars being spent in such a wasteful way”
I remember when Maine had an Independent Governor named James Longley. He was elected because he hated spending. By the time he left office many of our police cruisers needed replacing, roads repaired, schools fixed, etc. He hadn’t done any of that upkeep and the next Governor (a Republican)had to put us into debt to get these things fixed all at once.
When I look at the stimulus, in some ways, I see a laundry list of projects Bush ignored while pursuing his Iraqi Freedom dream. We should have been putting money into infastructure, research and education instead of losing billions to fraud in Iraq, in my opinion. At least, spending now will spur job growth, and that will lead to the economy rebounding. I believe that is the definition of “stimulus spending.”

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 1:57 pm 1:57 pm

“$400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
$34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters
$500 million for improvement projects for National Institutes of Health facilities
$44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters
$350 million for Agriculture Department computers
$88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building”
Just noting these is useless. You’re neglecting the why, the how, the how much it will save, etc.
———————————–
silky,
So how much will it save?
The whole point about the items he is bringing up is that there is a large expenditure to do what?
Now, If we had what I have been advocting here for days, An extimate of the jobs createdand saved for each of those items, Then there is a real basis for saying “look, this will help!”
Obama and others are saying this thing wil create/save 3.5 million jobs. Sounds great, But you could say 4.6 million, I could say 2.8 million and Amy could say 2.0 million. Where are the estimates the lead to that number?
Without some kind of analytical data, the numbers are completely meaningless.
Example,
$44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters
can we expect 250 full time jobs on this one, 500, 1000?
The US Conference of Mayors did this with their “ready-to-go” list.
Why shouldn’t we demand this of this bill given the stagerring amount of money & the critical nature of the problem?

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 1:59 pm 1:59 pm

Iwonder how “buddies” of the politicians are going to get these contracts.”
Not many. This isn’t the Bush administration.
Posted by: silky
______________________________________
“So wait, you are telling me that not one Democrat is corrupt.”
Um…where did you see that? Settle down, Jimmy.
Posted by: silky
_______________________________________
You hinted to the fact that Bush was corrupt. Honestly, he wasn’t the most forthcoming president. Bush has earned much of his criticism. That being said, we are not talking about Bush. We are talking about the biggest spending package in American history and I am very suspect of ALL politicians. TARP 1 has been so mishandeled to beleive that the gov’t can do a better job now is not realistic.

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm

I lived thru the carter years…stood in unemployment lines around blocks..waited in gas stations every other day to get fuel—Do you remember the “Oil Embargo” that shut down fuel to this country and CAUSED it???What precipitated the problems in the economy in 08-fuel prices-causing consumer prices to rise across the board..americans disposable income went to covering those rises in cost..every business across the board raised prices…I knew they were artificially caused..demand had NOT exceeded supply-it was a republican ploy to try to get us to allow them to drill for more oil-when they could see that tactic was not gettiing their candidate elected-what happened-the oil prices feel like a rock–they lost the gamble and crippled our country…and by the way this is not by any fairy tale-indicitive of the normal economic cycle…study some history-watch some NPB shows-step away from the Rush…

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 2:08 pm 2:08 pm

A trip down memory lane…remember when bush handed out 600 checks to everyone including those with a lexus? well i recall the dems were hollering to send money to the states instead to stimulate the economy…anyone remember back that far??/what did that 600 stimulate-nothing-we lost a year in which we could have been on top of this problem-Hell yes, I blame the republicans-but then i don’t have a revisionists sense of history, and no emotional ties to a partys dogma…

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 2:21 pm 2:21 pm

“Obama Out In Left Field, Obama Out Of His League”
lvironpigs.wordpress.com
OBAMA IS DOUBLE STANDARD AND HYPOCRISY AT ITS FINEST, this guy writes.
He invites Liberals to bash him if they can defend double standard for Geithner and Rodriguez
Obama is turning into a national disaster rather quickly!

Posted by: IRONPIGPEN | February 12, 2009, 2:23 pm 2:23 pm

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:25 pm 2:25 pm

“TARP 1 has been so mishandeled to beleive that the gov’t can do a better job now is not realistic.”
Sure it is. Doing a “better job” would merely be a matter of hiring a couple high school kids to do some reconciling. To actually track the money is going to be a challenging exercise because of how much money we’re talking about and how many entities are going to be involved, but a trail should not be that difficult to arrange for. Some will slip through the cracks, but most should be accountable.
Posted by: silky
_______________________________________
WHAT?!?!?!? That is crazy talk! They can’t even trace precisely where the first TARP money went and if they did know where it went they didn’t put guidelines on how to use it.
So, let me get this straight, it is OK to misuse money because it will be just “a little?” The problem with that is that once you track the money trail it’s already spent. I’m surprised that you are fine with that. I don’t know ONE person who would handle thier personal finances like that.

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 2:31 pm 2:31 pm

“WHAT?!?!?!? That is crazy talk! They can’t even trace precisely where the first TARP money went and if they did know where it went they didn’t put guidelines on how to use it.”
Right, that’s going to be different this time. Do you not watch or read the news? A system was not in place to track the money. One will be in place this go around.
As far as a “little” slipping through the cracks? It’s unavoidable. And your personal finances don’t consist of $780 billion dollars going in a zillion different directions to a brazilion difference contractors. To compare your personal finances to tracking TARP money is irrational.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:37 pm 2:37 pm

Not 780 billion…we’re talking TARP, not the stimulus. Same idea, though.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:38 pm 2:38 pm

Barry won his battle for the stimulus and capitalism lost its battle for survival. We have just elected rev wright to the presidency.
In the past, Barry has said…
“I sought out marxist professors in college” Audacity of hope
“It was a tragedy the courts didn’t get into wealth redistribution” chicgo radio interview 2001.
“I just wanna spread it around a bit”
Conversation with Joe el plumber
Barry sought out reverend racist. A man who is very outspoken about the evils of capitalism.
Barry’s political career was started in bill ayer’s house, a man who not only hates capitalism, but actually bombed buildings to combat it.
Barry’s wife is still looking for a reason to be proud of her country. (she’s probably never been a fan of capitalism either). Despite the fact that her and barry went to the best schools via loans and are now millionaires in our evil capitalist country.
“America in 2008 is a downright mean country”- michelle obama
Hopefully the media will lose its ability to protect this anti-American socialist and he will be exposed for who he is.

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 2:40 pm 2:40 pm

Did none of you watch the bankers in frount of the comittee yesterday?? did you not hear them say “we did not ask for bailout money”???the government came to us and offered the money and we took it…Yes their should have been conditions on the money…This alan greenspan “I thought they would regulate themselves” days are gone-the trick is to regulate without stifling-regulations were there-just not being enforced..let the free markets regulate themself…In china they put those that don’t understand the consequences to death..and i am all for that..If your lack of business morality catches up to you..bye bye

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm

As far as a “little” slipping through the cracks? It’s unavoidable. And your personal finances don’t consist of $780 billion dollars going in a zillion different directions to a brazilion difference contractors. To compare your personal finances to tracking TARP money is irrational.
Posted by: silky
________________________________________
What is irrational Silky is that you are OK with tax money being spent irrationally. Maybe the citizens should start holding the politicians accountable for how they spend our money just as we are accountable for how I spend my money.
You also should realize that “a little” mis open to great interpretation and is subjective. You realize that the 350 billion spent on the first half of TARP is greater thatn many nations GDP. So I would rethink that position.

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 2:44 pm 2:44 pm

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm

Note to Barry: Campaigns over…America 1….Hooverites 0..not trying to rub it in…just the facts

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm

“What is irrational Silky is that you are OK with tax money being spent irrationally.”
Where did I say that?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm

silky
I thought barry’s brother was living in a hut in kenya on $2 a month, while he and michelle raked in millions in America’s dirtiest political city?
Some “keeper of his brother”, huh?

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 2:47 pm 2:47 pm

“I thought barry’s brother was living in a hut in kenya on $2 a month, while he and michelle raked in millions in America’s dirtiest political city?”
You did?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:49 pm 2:49 pm

“Hopefully the media will lose its ability to protect this anti-American socialist and he will be exposed for who he is.”
An intelligent, pragmatic, patriotic, God-fearing keeper of his brother? It’s about freaking time. Now go take your meds.
Posted by: silky
_______________________________________
Don’t worry about people like this. They only have tolerance for thier own thinking even thought Obama wants to be the “Uniter.” Don’t you love the irony?

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 2:50 pm 2:50 pm

“I thought barry’s brother was living in a hut in kenya on $2 a month, while he and michelle raked in millions in America’s dirtiest political city?”
You did?
Posted by: silky
________________________________________
He was and it was reported by Italian media! Molto buono!

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 2:51 pm 2:51 pm

It’s less than a dollar a month, btw. And he’s a half-brother and has been estranged from Barack. What’s the point?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:51 pm 2:51 pm

silky
You have abandoned all rational thought and discussion on barry’s true colors long ago. I bet the first time you heard him say hope!change! you wet yourself (or maybe you just got a “tingle up your leg” like keith olberman on msnbc).

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm

“Don’t worry about people like this. They only have tolerance for thier own thinking even thought Obama wants to be the “Uniter.”"
Hardly, but I don’t have much patience for crackpots.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm

“What is irrational Silky is that you are OK with tax money being spent irrationally.”
Where did I say that?
Posted by: silky
_______________________________
Correction: irresponsibly.

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm

blah blah blah all you deadenders say the same things. what do you expect him to do …nothing. You spoiled americans have no idea how much trouble we are in. When ther is a line 1,200 people long for construction jobs in chicago..that means we are screwed. Why not reinvest in america unless you think we will fail move to canada suckers.

Posted by: brian | February 12, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm

barryisasocialist, you are a foaming at the mouth lunatic and I fear for all those close to you. Spread the madness!

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

Right, that’s going to be different this time. Do you not watch or read the news? A system was not in place to track the money. One will be in place this go around.
Silky,
TARP became a mess because Bush (YES…Bush)/Paulson & the Congress rushed because the end of the world was about to occur if we did not act RIGHT NOW!
Remeber the first version of that bill, something like 150 pages, if memory serves. Then after it went back for some hasty work, it emerged at what 500 some odd pages?
No one really knew what they created, but they had done it fast! There was no plan or authority in place to be the watchdog, but we HAD to get that money out there!
Now, the stimulus bill we have now has been created in very much the same kind of environment. Obama playing the fear card to rush it through.
You can count on a similar story being presented for any TARP 2 bill.
Both sides of aisle are guilty in building these virtually uncontrollable beasts. We must now do what we can to try make sure a reasonable and verifiable mechanism is put in place for all the monies that we are now spending.
The have allocated huge amounts of money for management & oversight for each of the appropriations. We must now hold the President & the Congress accountable so we can all see for ourselves what is going on. We do not need commitees or multi-million dollar reports at the end.

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

“Correction: irresponsibly.”
Where did I say that?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

Barry the reason capitalism lost its battle for survival is that it drank its own poison-capitalism run amuk is the reason for the stimulus program..is it starting to sink in yet….

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 2:55 pm 2:55 pm

“We must now do what we can to try make sure a reasonable and verifiable mechanism is put in place for all the monies that we are now spending.”
Rest assured that Obama is on the hook for this and he knows it. If there isn’t substantial accountability, count on him being run out of town on a rail by Republicans AND Democrats in 2012.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

Posted by: Jimmy | February 12, 2009, 2:58 pm 2:58 pm

Mike-c: I agree, i am on my reps from my state e-mailing the need to actually make jobs out of this bill-for every $100 spent to create a job it should be creating jobs down the line..3 suppliers 10 manufacturing jobs..I am assuming they(repubs) killed the language in the bill that said these products must be made in america. Screw free trade until america gets back on our feet..and if that makes me a protectionist..so be it..I want to buy american and can’t find a product on the shelf..I am sending an e-mail weekly to pelosi and reid to state my case.face it our time is wasted here arguing with each other-lets do some good with our time

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm

“I thought barry’s brother was living in a hut in kenya on $2 a month”
The interviews I’ve seen with Obama’s younger half brother indicate he doesn’t want any handouts, and is training to be a mechanic. He actually sounds like a pretty bright guy. I wish my relatives reflected as well on me! (ha ha, just kidding)

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 3:06 pm 3:06 pm

Take the amounts talked about yesterday, 2.838 Trillion dollars!
One way of wrapping your mind around this is to realize it would take 7,775 YEARS of spending ONE million dollars a day – EVERY DAY to reach that number!
Im all for geting these things that can actually produce jobs moving forward, but im not just jumping on the band wagon saying “YEEEHAAA, Lets go Spend!”
There are things in here that really do need justifying and part of a STIMULUS package. Just globbing millions & millions of dolars together for a “project” is not stimulus. Telling us that spending X will create Y jobs is a much better way! At that point, we can follow the money, the project & jobs!

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

o.k. lets remember IF the banks failed-we the people(government was on the hook for all those insured deposits…remember??how much do you suppose that would have cost the taxpayer..Tarp really was a wash-we were on the hook one way or another..at least according to bernakes-Fed..now maybe it was a lie..you and I don’t really know do we..but they all looked realistically scared…hence the haste…still someone should of put some conditions on it

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm

” am assuming they(repubs) killed the language in the bill that said these products must be made in america.”
Actually it was Obama who wanted that removed after the EU pressured him on it.
+++ Canada, the European Union and Japan last week welcomed the softened language of the “Buy American” provisions, pushed by President Barack Obama over concerns the initial plan could start a trade war.
.
.
.
The modified version gave Canada, the European Union, Japan and a short list of other trading partners some comfort they would still be able to share in the expanded U.S. public works market created by the stimulus bill.
But other countries that do not have government procurement pacts with the United States would not get increased access. Among those countries are China, India, Brazil and Russia.+++

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 3:15 pm 3:15 pm

I am sick and tired of discussing whether or not the stimulus will work, whether or not democrats or republicans caused this crisis (even though it was the democrats)ect.
The real discussion needs to be about capitalism vs.socialism.
Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried, capitalism on the other hand, produces 500lb poor people with GPC cigarettes and cell phones in their pockets.
If barry would have only been honest with the American people and said his plan of “change” was to make us the next France, he would never have been elected.
Now the cat is out of the bag, and I say let’s kick this socialist out of Washington.

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 3:16 pm 3:16 pm

Seems to me, Geitner is taking his time to try and figure this out in a methodical manner, and getting all kinds of grief up on the Hill for not having specifics yet..they press is trying to kill him for it..so apparently only the taxpayers want a well thought out plan.

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm

cowgirl
Yes, it seems that geitner looks at everything in his life in a “methodical manner”, including his own personal taxes that he cheated on.

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 3:21 pm 3:21 pm

barryisasocialist, you’re a piece of work. What do you do when you’re not whining?

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 3:23 pm 3:23 pm

barryisasocialist: wake up, and pay attention. GWBush went WAY down the road toward socialism when he effectively nationalized the banking and mortgage system. Obama inherited this situation. So if you want to label someone as a socialist, you need to start with BUSH!

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:24 pm 3:24 pm

cowgirl
Yes, it seems that geitner looks at everything in his life in a “methodical manner”, including his own personal taxes that he cheated on.
Posted by: barryisasocialist
______________________________________
Don’t worry. Tim “turbo tax” Geithner will solve it all. I guess that is why the DOW hit the Nov. 20 lows today.

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 3:24 pm 3:24 pm

barryisasocialist, you’re a piece of work. What do you do when you’re not whining?
Posted by: silky
___________________________________
I guess you could answer that same question.

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 3:26 pm 3:26 pm

“Now the cat is out of the bag, and I say let’s kick this socialist out of Washington.”
Let’s not.

Posted by: Amy | February 12, 2009, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm

arkie and others concerned:
people on this blog seem to be talking past one another and disagreeing for that sake of disagreeing, but Amy is correct. Marriage is a civil matter. It is a contract between two people carrying legal consequences. Religions choose to either sanctify that relationship or not. Catholics who get married by a justice of the peace later have it sanctified by a priest. Martin Luther in the 16th century wrote that he thought the marriage (civil) ceremony should be held at the entrance of the church and then go into the sanctuary to celebrate before God with the Mass. The bottom line is that marriage is a civil contract between two people.

Posted by: George | February 12, 2009, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm

“I guess you could answer that same question.”
I could, but it wouldn’t really have anything to do with my point, seeing how I don’t whine and all that guy does is bitch and moan.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 3:28 pm 3:28 pm

The socialist is already gone home to Crawford TX

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm

“I guess you could answer that same question.”
I could, but it wouldn’t really have anything to do with my point, seeing how I don’t whine and all that guy does is bitch and moan.
Posted by: silky
————————————-
Semantics.

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm

thanks Mike..I was watching charlie rose the other night with a Pol from india addressing this trade issue..demanding america spend this around to help other countries…and listening to him chastise america and say we will no longer lead the world..and I say give us our manufacturing sector back and we will lead and feed. Yet they all find they are still tied to the american consumer-but he says they are targeting their sales in india and china to their citizens…sorry but i am done subsidizing your economy..they say china india and the middle east are done investing in the usa-good-maybe that will force us to get out of the free trade agreements and become a country again that supports itself..I consider this a great opportunity..and will not support Obamas posistion on free trade.

Posted by: cowgirl | February 12, 2009, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm

cowgirl–”What precipitated the problems in the economy in 08-fuel prices-causing consumer prices to rise across the board..americans disposable income went to covering those rises in cost..every business across the board raised prices…”–sorry, i have some catching uop to do… you are right, the oil embargo played a role just as higher prices for gas ( created by speculators) nudged this recession – no recession ever starts without a catylyst. But the second part of your statement is the telling part.. except this time disposable income and business spedning will go to cover the massives taxes needed to corral the massive spending.. or we can NOT raise taxes and the result will be hyper-inflation will will cause the same result.. your money will buy much less.. either way.. This stimulus is moving us straight for the same long unemployment lines and the same loss of spending ability with our dollars that we saw under carter.. In what universe does spending more equal growth.. if your household income is tight, do you go out and spend more to make it better??

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm

Amy
You’re right. Socialism has worked everywhere. What the heck did Ben Franklin know? He has nothing on karl marx!
Despite the fact that communism/socialism under Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Nazis ect has resulted in the murder of over 100,000,000 people and terrible living conditions for the rest within the last century, let’s give it a try in America!
Barry’s about “change”, right?
Have you ever heard of the young, charismatic speaker who stormed cuba’s political scene in the 50′s who also promised change! change! change!??

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 3:33 pm 3:33 pm

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 3:33 pm 3:33 pm

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm

bushisasocialist. He effecitvely nationalized the banking and mortgage industries with TARP 1.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm

Message to Congress:
The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves and then we will save our country.
01 December 1862–Abraham Lincoln

Posted by: George | February 12, 2009, 3:36 pm 3:36 pm

“if you want to actually call them that will be the same..”
Obama has said it will be tracked. And the Treasury Secretary works for him.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 3:36 pm 3:36 pm

“Semantics.”
LOL. What?
Free trade is a bust. If for no other reason than I’m tired of not being able to understand the a-hole on the other end of the phone when I call to report that my satellite is out.
Posted by: silky
—————————————-
Do you even understand that I was referring to your whining v. bitch & moan.
You obvously are beligerent.

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 3:36 pm 3:36 pm

Amy– did you actually endorse socialism? Well at least your up front about it.. but since you did, care to name one socialist country that has anything near our standard of living?? or ever has for that matter??

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:40 pm 3:40 pm

silky–”Do you not watch or read the news? A system was not in place to track the money. One will be in place this go around.”– really I thought that the first bill was under the control of the treasury secretary? and what measeures are in plce for this one thats any different? Its government spending just like the last, so i assume the checks and balances – if you want to actually call them that will be the same..
Posted by: arkie vet
___________________________________
People want to believe so badly that they will believe anything. They follow him like he is the “Kim Jung Ill” of the USA.

Posted by: Mandy | February 12, 2009, 3:41 pm 3:41 pm

cowgirl — and by the way, you can blame the economy in the seventies on the embargo all you want, but the embargo did not cause 14% unemployment and 20% inflation.. out of control spending and increased taxes did..

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:42 pm 3:42 pm

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 3:43 pm 3:43 pm

William
You are right. Bush’s bailout was TERRIBLE. The $$$ can’t be accounted for now. Many of the banks simply took the $$$ and bought up foreign banks (which did NOTHING to stimulate the economy). I do not trust any politician who tells me that he or she knows how to manage my $$ better than I do.
Bush was roped in to do the bailout. He was an idiot for doing it and he should have been smarter. Barry however, is a socialist, who has a clear objective of where he wants to take this country.
So what is your rationale? Bush made a terrible mistake with his bailout, but barry’s “stimulus” is okay because msnb anchors pee their pants when he talks?
Posted by: barryisasocialist
———————————–
AWESOME POST!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mandy | February 12, 2009, 3:44 pm 3:44 pm

“Do you even understand that I was referring to your whining v. bitch & moan.
You obvously are beligerent.”
I understood perfectly.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 3:45 pm 3:45 pm

barryis: why do you insist on calling the President Barry? Is it that you want to belittle him? Does that somehow feed your ego? Did you refer to Bush as “Georgie” for example? Or John McCain as “Johnnie?” Or is it that you just hate President Obama and calling him Barry makes you feel superior?

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm

Ridiculous post, Mandy. Goofy, illogical, non-sensical and way out of right field.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm

arkie vet
Most BO lovers that I know (cousins, aunt, uncles and friends) argue all day long how socialism is better than capitalism. Several of my cousins actually argued with me that communism has created some of the greatest economic conditions in history. Gotta love them public school educations!

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm

Cowgirl –”My first presidential campaign was for Bobby Kennedy.”– humm so you suported Bobby who shared his brother’s views on a strong military, lowering taxes to stimulate the economy, less government spending, and a country that helped itself rather than just looking for a hand-out.. May I ask what happpened to you??

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm

“Do you even understand that I was referring to your whining v. bitch & moan.
You obvously are beligerent.”
I understood perfectly.
Posted by: silky
____________________________________
Did you? Really…………….

Posted by: Tony | February 12, 2009, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm

Posted by: Mandy | February 12, 2009, 3:48 pm 3:48 pm

I have two sons. Hard working, home owners who pay their bills and never ask for any handouts. Both now laid off from CAT. Are tax cuts going to help them? Very little. Are tax cuts going to enable CAT to generate the kind of business to hire them back? Doubtful. A program to generate funds to rebuild roads, bridges, schools WILL do that. CAT has already said that if the bill passed, they would anticipate a return of many of those workers as orders for new equipment start coming in. There is nearly 10% unemployment in our area.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:50 pm 3:50 pm

“She got suckered by the promise of free money.”
Yeah, those pesky Democratic voters and their demands for lower taxes.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm

William
Barry was his name for 20 something years, until he realized that claiming his black heritage was a way to play the victim. His father abandoned him and his mother/grandparents raised him. Funny he never wrote a booked called “Dreams From My Mother”?
Barry sat in a church for 20 years that spoke some of the most vile, anti-American, anti-white speech ever. I really can’t give a man respect who used someone like rev racist to get ahead.

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 3:52 pm 3:52 pm

George –”It is a contract between two people carrying legal consequences. Religions choose to either sanctify that relationship or not” — i agree, but let me go back to an earlier post, then i will drop this non economics related topic.. I never said I did not support civil unions or same sex couples enjoying the same legal rights as other couples.. I said I do not endorse same sex “marriage” and do not want the government telling me I must accept something I am morrally opposed to.. under my own personal religious freedoms.. same with abortion.. As long as its legal..I would never protest an abortion clinic.. but don’t pay for abortions with MY tax dollars since I believe it to be murder… and now back to economics…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:53 pm 3:53 pm

Anyone who thinks that all government spending is a handout, is a moron. Funny you don’t seem to complain when the Pentagon wants untold more millions. Guess that kind of “handout” is OK, huh? But not anything that would help those millions, like my sons, who have lost their jobs.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:53 pm 3:53 pm

barryis: were you a McCain supporter? Please answer.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 3:54 pm 3:54 pm

“if you want to actually call them that will be the same..”
Obama has said it will be tracked. And the Treasury Secretary works for him.
Oversight is responisbilty of the COngress! I don’t think any american should beleive ANY politician at this point about tracking this money.
Geithner was part of the team that organized some of the bailouts! If nothing else, he should be coming clean about why they lost track of the TARP money last year, and give us all VERY specific details of HOW it will be tracked this time. The American people should have total visibility on where ALL the monies go from the stimulus bill, TARP, and any other components that come along!
if they release a dime before the public has the anbility to watch where it goes, then the same thing will happen again. In a few months, we will be watching another group of suits waling into congressional hearings! We do not need anymore of that!

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 3:54 pm 3:54 pm

What has Obama lost? His soul. His integrity. This huge spending bill is just a way to shove other bogus legislation down our throats.
There is no excuse for health care mandates to be in this spending bill.
We demand our privacy! Get out of our medical records.
OBAMA IS A TRAITOR. HE LIED, JUST LIKE THEY ALL DO. ONLY HE DID IT WITH CHARM.

Posted by: DC SUX | February 12, 2009, 3:56 pm 3:56 pm

Go to http://WWW.STR8DOPE.COM for the straight dope on sports, politics and more.

Posted by: Ryan | February 12, 2009, 3:56 pm 3:56 pm

Silky –”Obama has said it will be tracked. And the Treasury Secretary works for him.” and we all know that Barrack-no pork in any bill i sign, 5 days on the web for review of every bill, no lobbyists in my cabinet-Obama would NEVER lie to us.. would he?

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm

William
If this bill helps you or others in your family than I am happy for you. However, most of the $780 billion does nothing to actually stimulate the economy. It is going to liberal programs that the democrats have been trying to pass through for years, and now THEIR policies of spreading the wealth around have nearly brought this country to its knees. Money for ACORN, STD prevention, research on the global warming hoax, restoration of gov’t buildings, does nothing to help the economy.
Barry just got elected with HUGE indivual donations for his 700 million dollar campaign. Don’t you think he has some backs to scratch now?
Tax cuts TO THOSE WHO ACTUALLY PAY FEDERAL TAXES directly gives more $$$ to the American people and allows employers to hire more workers. Check the records, when taxes have been cut gov’t revunue has INCREASED. Socialists refuse to accept that.
Apparently I am not the only one who is nervous about barry. It has been the WORST POST ELECTION SELL OFF OF THE stock market in it’s history.
I wonder why the media don’t discuss that one more often?

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm

William
You are right. Bush’s bailout was TERRIBLE. The $$$ can’t be accounted for now. Many of the banks simply took the $$$ and bought up foreign banks (which did NOTHING to stimulate the economy). I do not trust any politician who tells me that he or she knows how to manage my $$ better than I do.
Bush was roped in to do the bailout. He was an idiot for doing it and he should have been smarter. Barry however, is a socialist, who has a clear objective of where he wants to take this country.
So what is your rationale? Bush made a terrible mistake with his bailout, but barry’s “stimulus” is okay because msnb anchors pee their pants when he talks?
Posted by: barryisasocialist
______________
DEAD ON BARRYIS…. You hit the nail on the head, but only those who already know will believe you… its okay.. In four years when unemployment is again at 15% and inflation is about 25% and your taxes have went to 40%+.. the republicans can look forward to another 20 years in order to restore capitalism.

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:03 pm 4:03 pm

“Barry was his name for 20 something years, until he realized that claiming his black heritage was a way to play the victim.”
Interesting. It never occured to me that my brother going by Robert at work, rather than Bobby, was him playing the victim rather than being professional. That rascal!

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 4:05 pm 4:05 pm

barryis: if you hold Obama responsible for the statements of his one time pastor, I certainly hope you held McCain to the same standard for his pastor. In case you do not recall, McCain’s man claimed God sent Katrina to punish N.O. for homosexualism; claimed God sent the Holocaust to force the Jews to Israel, and he called the Catholic Church “The Great W**re.” Did you know this? The difference between the two: Obama repudiated Wrights comments; McCain did not repudiate his pastors. So, unless you also condemn McCain, you are a hypocrite.

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 4:06 pm 4:06 pm

LOL, Silky. Great one! Applies to my buddy Gilbert who is Gil in one crowd and Gib in another. I will tell him to quit playing the victim!

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 4:08 pm 4:08 pm

Question: how many jobs were created with Bush’s TARP part I?

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 12, 2009, 4:09 pm 4:09 pm

cowgirl–”A trip down memory lane…remember when bush handed out 600 checks to everyone including those with a lexus? well i recall the dems were hollering to send money to the states instead to stimulate the economy…anyone remember back that far??/what did that 600 stimulate-nothing-we lost a year in which we could have been on top of this problem”– Now who’s rewriting history.. those checks which were part of Bush’t first two tax cuts were responsible for creating 6 million jobs to replace the 6.8 million lost at the end of the clinton administration when the dot.com industry went bust.. they DID in fact stimulate the economy greatly and disolve an impending recession.

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:09 pm 4:09 pm

“Question: how many jobs were created with Bush’s TARP part I?”
Answer: 17,069

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm

Mandy–”She got suckered by the promise of free money”— shes noat alone mandy,, there seems to be a lot of those on here…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:14 pm 4:14 pm

William j.– Are tax cuts going to help them? Very little. Are tax cuts going to enable CAT to generate the kind of business to hire them back? Doubtful. A program to generate funds to rebuild roads, bridges, schools WILL do that. CAT has already said that if the bill passed, they would anticipate a return of many of those workers as orders for new equipment start coming in”– okay to answer in order– will tax cuts help.. yes and now.. — the programs in this package to build bridges and roads don’t kick in until 2010 or 2011.. how will a “stimulus” that is scheduled for 2 years down the road help your unemployed relative today??? answer–they arn’t

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm

The decision was made this time to hand it out in dribs & drabs, rather than a lump sum. Obma and his team feel that it has a better chance of being spent this way.
Of course I am not sure what part of the economy is going to stimulated 13 dollars at a time.

Posted by: Mike_C | February 12, 2009, 4:17 pm 4:17 pm

“Of course I am not sure what part of the economy is going to stimulated 13 dollars at a time.”
Chili’s two for one, brah!

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 4:19 pm 4:19 pm

“Bush’s TARP part I?”– why is it Bush’s tarp part I.. I mean he signed it(which he shouldn’t have) but didn’t silky or someelse tell me in an earlier post that Obama has no control over whats in a bill since its congress who writes it.. wouldn’t that make this Congress’s tarp bill? Or if it is bush’s bill, then when obama signs this spending bill. it becomes the Obama stimulus package right.. pork and all??

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:25 pm 4:25 pm

William
You show me the sermons that mccain’s (who I never liked) pastor said those things. How do you know this? Did that come off of the huffington post or daily kos? Barry’s pastor is on you tube (a little more bi-partisan, don’t you think) saying horrific things about America, capitilism, whites ect.
To answer your question, if mccain sat in a church and listened to the garbage you listed then i absolutely have no respect for him either. I have been a Catholic all my life and I have heard one priest, he was a bishop actually, say something that I did not agree with about the Iraq war. I left that particular sermon and NEVER went to hear him again.
Barry endorsed rev racist for 20 years, he even wrote a book titled after one of “sermons” and called him his spiritual mentor. He took his children to listen to him speak! I have use for people like that. If mccain’s pastor said the things that you say he did, I have no use for him either.

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 4:26 pm 4:26 pm

“I mean he signed it(which he shouldn’t have) but didn’t silky or someelse tell me in an earlier post that Obama has no control over whats in a bill since its congress who writes it”
Well, that was in the context of pork. The President obviously has plenty of influence, but it is nowhere near absolute. Particularly in the case of Obama and Pelosi.
I would not hang TARP I on Bush.

Posted by: silky | February 12, 2009, 4:30 pm 4:30 pm

williamj–”Anyone who thinks that all government spending is a handout, is a moron. Funny you don’t seem to complain when the Pentagon wants untold more millions. Guess that kind of “handout” is OK, huh?”– yes it is.. the constitution guarenteed life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and one of the few things that the government tasked itself to be specifically responsible for was the physical protection of the american people. rember the phrase “provide for the common defense”.. Also was the requirement to “promote general welfare” which means that safety nets were to be established only to the extent that they prevented the sufferage of the society as a whole.. which is why national healthcare is not a requirement for the country as a whole, but healthcare for only those who can’t afford it on their own…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:30 pm 4:30 pm

Arkie vet
“the constitution guarenteed life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and one of the few things that the government tasked itself to be specifically responsible for was the physical protection of the american people. rember the phrase “provide for the common defense”.. Also was the requirement to “promote general welfare” which means that safety nets were to be established only to the extent that they prevented the sufferage of the society as a whole.. which is why national healthcare is not a requirement for the country as a whole, but healthcare for only those who can’t afford it on their own… ”
Amen.

Posted by: barryisasocialist | February 12, 2009, 4:33 pm 4:33 pm

William j -”McCain’s man claimed God sent Katrina to punish N.O. for homosexualism; claimed God sent the Holocaust to force the Jews to Israel, and he called the Catholic Church “The Great W**re.” Did you know this? The difference between the two: Obama repudiated Wrights comments; McCain did not repudiate his pastors”– First, are you talking about McCain’s pastor or just A pastor who also happens to be a staunch supporter of the republcian ticket? second, Obama DID NOT repudiate his pastor.. He said ” I can no more disown him than I can disown the african American race”– doen’t sound like much of a repudiation to me…

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:34 pm 4:34 pm

silky –”I would not hang TARP I on Bush.”— thank you for the acknowledgement..see even hose of us on completly opposite sides of the fence occassionally see eye to eye..

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:37 pm 4:37 pm

Wonder what happened to Amy and cowgirl.. William J, maybe you should go check on them, they may be starting the commune without you..

Posted by: arkie vet | February 12, 2009, 4:43 pm 4:43 pm

Wonder what happened to Amy and cowgirl.. William J, maybe you should go check on them, they may be starting the commune without you..
Posted by: arkie vet
____________________________________
Hilarious. Maybe they can wear burkahs.

Posted by: Mandy | February 12, 2009, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm

When I watch Obama spin his web on
the podium, the word “unctuous” comes
to mind. I hope that there is money
in the stimulus package to buy dic-
tionaries for all the Obama voters
who have no idea what the word means.

Posted by: Donzi | February 13, 2009, 12:33 am 12:33 am

I’m in love with my Lord Obama.
I’m so gay I can’t stand it.
I love Obama’s purple lips!
I want some!

Posted by: William J. LePetomane | February 13, 2009, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm

On September 11, 2001 we were attacked from the outside. This time it is coming from within our own country. I cannot help but question how those who voted for Obama allowed themselves to be deceived and led like sheep to the slaughter of the Constitution of the United States of America and the downfall of Capitalism. However, it is not surprising that this charismatic narcissist was able to lead his “flock” down this ill-fated path. Great speakers throughout history have had the ability to draw the masses and deliver their message. With carefully chosen prose and a passionate delivery, the speaker can convince, draw-in and even mesmerize the audience.
This was obvious during his campaign with all of the swooning and trance-like adoration over his rhetoric of “hope” and “change”. Well, folks, we’ve got a whole platter full of change and that is for certain. Obama said it right in his plagiarized “Just Words” speech. Yes, it is amazing what words can do. In pushing for his “stimulus” bill like a schoolyard bully, he chose once again to use words to frighten the American people into a coerced acceptance of this blatant robbery of the economy, and the appropriation of our money and our freedom.
A capitalist economy (also known as a free market or market economy) is the economic system in which the means of production are owned by private persons, and operated for profit and where investments, distribution, income, production, and pricing of goods and services are predominately determined through the operation of a free market, rather than by central economic planning.
We no longer have a capitalist economy, my friends. We now have a usurper and his army of Obamatrons who have just overtaken what was once a free market economy. How better to form a direct path to a new world order and a globalized government than to devalue the American dollar to such a degree that it no longer exists?
Approval rating? I don’t think one should use the word “approval” for anything related to this socialist/communist thug.

Posted by: ,. | February 13, 2009, 5:38 pm 5:38 pm

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The Note, 2/12/09: The Win — Obama gets his package — but what did he lose in the process?

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