Will the President’s Housing Plan Help Those Who Behaved Irresponsibly?

Thank you, Jake and ABC News for admitting the truth.
Rewarding the irresponsible only leads to more irresponsibility.

Obama is an Idiot, I am with Cnbc, I am tired of bailing out obama voters

Remember when Bill Clinton talked about those who “work hard and play by the rules?” He might just as well have mentioned those who don’t borrow money they can’t pay back.
Those of us who played by the rules will now be taxed for the benefit of those who didn’t.
And what on earth does that woman mean about “unnecessary” forclosures?

You know I got some very good advice in business once…don’t design your customer service program around the worst 5% of your customers. There will always be a few schmucks out there trying to game the system. It is no different here. But the vast majority of people that will be helped by this program are people who are having it tough in this economy. A lost job, or a health issue, or a bad investment decision along with this economy has taken down a lot of good hard working people. And this gets lost in these stupid arguments about the 5%.

“Those Who Behaved Irresponsibly”
You mean the PREDATORY BANKERS, right?
Maybe WALL STREET?
The AUTO INDUSTRY EXECS?
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION?
YEAH, THAT’S WHAT I THOUGHT YOU MEANT.

Way to go, Jake!
Thank you for speaking truth to power. The real power in this country is the public and for too long, the press have been preoccupied with their own prejudices and gamesmanship.
Forget arguing with jackasses like Gibbs, just turn around and tell it straight to your viewers and readers!

Oh No! Someone is going game the system; doesn’t happen in private enterprise does it?
Good grief, if everyone was perfect, and every plane perfect we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Time for some of you to just grow up. Some times you just have to sacrifice. The world doen’t evolve around you or me.
Just go back to doing nothing, that is what has gotten us this far.

Of course it will. But that’s not the point is it? While I am just as angry as the next person that we are in such a sad state of affairs, the truth of the matter is that we will rise and fall together. Let me repeat that again. We rise and fall together. Maybe the same people that were telling the public that the economic downfall was of the country was in their heads, while they collected their inflated bonuses will remember that fact. Maybe the Republicans and Democrats who were mums the word about inflated budgets and wasteful funding will remember that fact. Or, we can keep having amnesia about this whole freakin’ mess.

The massive increase in home ownership is directly attributable to the Bush administration’s efforts to make homeownership more accessible and affordable. In June 2002, President Bush set a public national goal of creating 5.5 million new minority homeowners by the end of this decade – He campaigned on it!
He didn’t just focus on minority communities, but lower income communities offering Down-payment Initiatives and closing costs to low- and moderate-income families. The Bush administration bragged about increasing substantially the funding for homeownership education programs and helping families make the move from government-assisted housing into homeownership. President Bush even proposed a new tax credit that would encourage home building in areas where affordable housing is scarce.
President Bush believed owning a home was a primary tool for wealth building, believed and promoted widespread home ownership, the investment bankers went all out and welcome to today….
You need to know your history before you complain about the current circumstances.

“No one forced any bank to loan any money to anyone who could not afford it.”
You should take a closer look at the CRA and the penalties involved. Banks were pressured all the time to make risky loans. Why do you think Fannie and Freddie failed?

You framed the question in the headline wrong and irresponsibly, Jake. And you know it.
The issue is: will the plan help SOME OF those who behaved irresponsibly?
The majority of the ones who really acted irresponsibly – especially the ones who treatd their homes as an ATM – are already foreclosed long ago. They will not be helped by this plan.
The ones who are still in these homes are people battling foreclousure and who are struggling very hard to keep themselves and their families afloat.
But I understand you and Santelli and the rightwingers very well. You and Santelli can’t live without a (manufactured) conflict, that would make reporting really boring. And the rightwingers just need easy targets and easy causes, no matter if theyr’re the correct ones or not.

Case Name
Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank Fair Housing/Lending/Insurance
Docket / Court 94 C 4094 ( N.D. Ill. ) FH-IL-0011
State/Territory Illinois
Case Summary
Plaintiffs filed their class action lawsuit on July 6, 1994, alleging that Citibank had engaged in redlining practices in the Chicago metropolitan area in violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), 15 U.S.C. 1691; the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3601-3619; the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution; and 42 U.S.C. 1981, 1982. Plaintiffs alleged that the Defendant-bank rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories. Plaintiffs sought injunctiverelief, actual damages, and punitive damages.
U.S. District Court Judge Ruben Castillo certified the Plaintiffs’ suit as a class action on June 30, 1995. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 322 (N.D. Ill. 1995). Also on June 30, Judge Castillo granted Plaintiffs’ motion to compel discovery of a sample of Defendant-bank’s loan application files. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 338 (N.D. Ill. 1995).
The parties voluntarily dismissed the case on May 12, 1998, pursuant to a settlement agreement.
Plaintiff’s Lawyers…
Obama, Barack H. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000

In the early 1990s, reports Stanley Kurtz, senior fellow at the Ethics and Policy Center, Obama was personally recruited by Chicago’s ACORN to run training sessions in “direct action.” That’s the euphemism for the techniques used under the cover of the federal Community Reinvestment Act to intimidate financial institutions into giving what have been called “Ninja” loans — no income, no job, no assets — to people who couldn’t afford them.
CRA was designed to increase minority homeownership. Whenever a bank wanted to grow or expand, ACORN would file complaints that it was not sufficiently sensitive to the needs of minorities in providing home loans. Agitators would then be unleashed.
Chicago’s ACORN used Alinsky’s tactics against institutions such as Bell Federal Savings and Loan and AvondaleFederal Savings. In September 1992, the Chicago Tribune described the group’s agenda as “affirmative action lending.”
Obama also helped ACORN get funding. When he served on the board of the Woods Fund for Chicago with Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, the Woods Fund frequently gave ACORN grants to fund its activist agenda.
In 1995, Kurtz reports, Obama chaired the committee that increased funding of ACORN and other community organizers. The committee report boasted that the fund’s “non-ideological” image “enabled the Trustees to make grants to organizations that use confrontational tactics against the business and governmental ‘establishments’ without undue risk of being accused of partisanship.”
The CRAempowered regulators to punish banks that failed to “meet the credit needs” of “low-income, minority and distressed neighborhoods.” It gave groups such as ACORN a license and a means to intimidate banks, claiming they were “redlining” poor and minority neighborhoods. ACORN employed its tactics in 1991 by taking over the House Banking Committee room for two days to protest efforts to scale back the CRA.
As a former White House staff economist writes in the American Thinker, Obama represented ACORN in a 1994 suit against redlining. ACORN was also a driving force behind a 1995 regulatory revision pushed through by the Clinton administration that greatly expanded the CRA and helped spawn the current financial crisis.
Obama was the attorney representing ACORN in this effort. Last November, he told the group, “I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career.” Indeed he has. Obama was and is fully aware of what ACORN was doing with the money and expertise he provided…

Sheila Bair, FDIC Chairman, mentioned “unnecessary foreclosures” several times but failed to mention why they were unnecessary.
Any info on that,Jake?

“Why do you think Fannie and Freddie failed?”
——————————-
Being looted by improper accounting practices to produce enormous bonuses for Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick didn’t help.

Thinking???
It is too late for you to accept what has happened……Barney Frank………Chris Dodd….CRA……the fact that FANNIE MAE has invested more in BAD loans over the last four years when the BUSH administrtation was questioning the SOLVENCY of FANNIE MAE than in the previous 8 years……..but let’s take your arguments as correct…..the BAD LENDERS sucked these unsuspecting victims to borrow more than they should to buy a home they could not afford…or worse yet….they loaned money on homes that were not worth the amount of the loan…….the EVIL LENDER empire is just like the credit card industry…….peddling the “DRUG” of money to the unsuspecting victims who got “hooked” on the cars and electronics they could not afford…………DAMN…what happened to JUST SAY NO.
I am tired of the PARADE OF VICTIMS.
p.s. some of the “working people” get paid by these EVIL LENDERS and have subsidized health insurance.

I am a staunch Obama supporter who has gone to college and worked hard all my life. I have never defaulted on a bill. I have always paid my mortgage on time and have lived in the same home with the same husband for 23 years.
Due to the downturn in the economy, we have seen our yearly income cut in half. A few years ago we refinanced our home to try to keep our business afloat and ride out the lean times. We are barely hanging on by a thread. We will hang tough for as long as we can. I’ll tell you what though. I would rather lose my home and live in a cardboard box than to take one penny of taxpayer dollars from my smug and resentful fellow Americans. I have never heard such shallow name calling and blaming people in my life. Sure, there are plenty of people out there to have made foolish choices. So, let’s just say to Hell with everybody. That’s the Republican way. Every man for himself and Devil take the hindmost!

Phoenix lady,
So you want my taxpayer dollars to bail you out after you used your home to supplement your business? You made a decision that your business was worth more to you than your home. Why should I have to live with your financial decisions?

Phoenix Lady wries: “I’ll tell you what though. I would rather lose my home and live in a cardboard box than to take one penny of taxpayer dollars from my smug and resentful fellow Americans. I have never heard such shallow name calling and blaming people in my life. Sure, there are plenty of people out there to have made foolish choices. So, let’s just say to Hell with everybody. That’s the Republican way. Every man for himself and Devil take the hindmost!”
****************************************
Dear Phoenix Lady: Please do not judge your fellow Americans……they are the most kind and generous citizens on the face of the earth..they are blessed and they give to charities more than any other nation on earth….they are particularly kind to their own…American citizens who have fallen on hard times….cancer victims…..horrible accident victims…..Iraq war veterans……innocent animals..the list goes on and on…..even the most hated President of the left ….GWB…..wanted to give BILLIONS to Africa for AIDS treatment and prevention (I was UPSET about that)…….but your anger is displaced…….the question is whether is whether the GOVERNMENT should be paying for “foolish” choices……if you are on drugs should the “smug” American people pay for your health care???? If you borrowed more than your home was worth should the SMUG American people pay for it when you can’t???
If you were caught up in a bad business environment and an economic downturn in your community…should the American people pay for it???
Be careful before you condemn……when your business is going well because you worked hard and planned well….will you prop up the failures of other businesses regardless of their choices????

Phoenix lady,
So you want my taxpayer dollars to bail you out after you used your home to supplement your business? You made a decision that your business was worth more to you than your home. Why should I have to live with your financial decisions?
Posted by: Sue | Feb 20, 2009 11:40:42 PM
You people just don’t get it do you? Like Liz said it is all interconnected. If we allow the housing market to fail, then everything else fails. A lot of these foreclosures are people who DID play the rules but either lost their job or had a medical emergency etc. Yes, there were predatory lenders who preyed on people they knew could not afford the home they were purchasing.
Did you even read the plan? If you care to read it, it does benefit those who have been playing by the rules. Whatever happened to “I am my Brother’s keeper”.
I do not want America to fail do you?

Phoenix lady,
I am sorry about your plight. The choice to use your home as income was yours. I hope you learned a valuable lesson. Your home should not be used as a cash cow.

Socialism 101
I cannot single handedly prop up anybody’s business, but I do what I can. My husband defers charges on his veterinary clients who have lost their jobs. He never denies life saving treatment to an animal in need. If he goes broke because the community is so financially weakened, I will be forever proud of him. As for me, I will gladly contribute whatever I can in the way of taxes to help turn this economy around for the greater good of all.

Jwench writes:
“Yes, there were predatory lenders who preyed on people they knew could not afford the home they were purchasing.
Whatever happened to “I am my Brother’s keeper”.
****************************************
Poor pitiful victims…..they bought a house they could not afford beacuse some “predatory” lender twisted their arm…….and those evil credit card companies just keep sending those offers in my mail….I was powerless to resist….I just had to fill them out….buy that big house….get those credit cards and buy that big screen TV…..but I need the educated and enlightened ELITE to protect me from these EVIL lenders……………..I AM MY BROTHER’S KEEPER..and HIS CHILDREN……HIS WIFE….HIS GRANDCHILDREN…………when will I get my check????

” Wall Street analysts, economists, people who are a lot smarter than we are clearly oppose this bill.”
Of course they oppose the bill! They made money hand over fist on sub-prime mortgages putting all of us at risk – the only bail-out plan they want is for themselves – not the people they have screwed over.

Dear Phoenix Lady…….you and your husband are TRUE AMERICANS….and you WILL make it….because you have helped your fellow Americans…….you are what America is ALL about…..you give to those who can’t afford it and in times of need….no BAILOUT….NO STIMULUS………NO amount of tax dollars can replace that…………….you go to work every day…….GOD BLESS you…..I mean this sincerely…..you are the very SOUL of the American economy…NOT the Government.

=======Think about what you said. If they lost the business there would have been NO income, therefore where would they get the money to pay the mortgage. Phoenix Lady is right, I hope some of you are never in need of help. =======
You seem to think others have not been faced with the same choice she faced. They took a calculated financial risk and lost. I’m sorry. But I don’t feel inclined to bail them out.

“Because they bought into it after the other banks did.”
Change your name or actually do it. They knew the risk of those mortgages when they bought them. The more they bought, the more NEW mortgages could be made. They were GSEs. Government guaranteed money. They finally went too far.

You seem to think others have not been faced with the same choice she faced. They took a calculated financial risk and lost. I’m sorry. But I don’t feel inclined to bail them out.
Posted by: Sue | Feb 21, 2009 12:22:12 AM
What do you propose we do , nothing? Let it all fail. Yeah that’ll work. I really hope you are never in need of help.

Socialism 101.
I appreciate your kind words. If anything positive can come out of this horrible time, it will be that we will all re-evaluate what is really important to us in life and what is fleeting and meaningless. I know I am far from alone, and I hope we will all be stronger and better people when a brighter day dawns.

Sue
You felt Inclined to Bailout the wealthy Ceos on Wall St with your Tax Dollars but dont want to Spend your Tax Dollars getting us out of this Mess? I dont understand I hope you never lose your Job

What about People who have lost their Jobs?If we dont Fix this Housing Market soon WE ARE ALL GONNA BE IN TROUBLE Remember we are in this together ONE NATION,UNITED STATES It may not be right But something has to be done
Posted by: ANGIE | Feb 21, 2009 12:27:57 AM
I guess they don’t know the saying “United we Stand, Divided We Fall”. Seems there are a bunch of people who want this country to finally fall into oblivion.

JWench,
I don’t know how to answer you. You seem to know more about my life than I do.

Jwench writes in part: “and yes some of the blame should be on those people that took mortgages they couldn’t afford.”
***************************************
How much blame jwench?? If I could afford a $200,00.00 home and decided to leverage up to a 400,000.00 home is the “big bad bank” to blame??? You don’t have a clue about what is driving foreclosures in this country….you just want somebody else to pay for it.
Why don’t you just be honest and state it this way: “Yeah, I could not afford that much house…but that evil bank should have told me that before they loaned me that money.”
***************************************
“What about the people who did play by the rules and lost their job? People like you make me sick.”
Wow jwench…..lots of people play by the rules……my Mother who has Alzheimers………..her house was sold to pay for her care………………my friend who has cancer…..he has children……….in your UTOPIA…the government will take care of all this.
One day you will face YOUR mortality jwench and then I won’t make you as sick.

Angie,
And I’m pointing out that you have no idea how outraged I was when TARP passed. And explaining that I am trying to post on the topic of the thread. I will also point out that I, and others, aren’t expressing our outrage over the stimulus plan that was just rammed down our throats.

Bill M
No one can Force a Bank to Make a Loan do you even Know how it works Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac do not give loans they Buy them, And then sell them into Pools thats what Happen Loans became Easier and Easier,The banks Gave them then sold them off and being their was no Regulation Eventually The Bubble Burst

The very rich trend Democrat not Republican. There was an article in Newsweek about that.
The “American Dream” was not based on people being irresponsible and getting rewarded for it.
Even in forum posts one can easily see how it is always about blaming the other guy, the rich, the white, business, anyone but the people that made the decision.
Irresponsiblity will not work in the long run. My family is not in an upper income tax bracket and we are very much against putting this burden us as taxpayers. This I can say, there is certainly no reason to strive for a better education and better job in this country anymore. That is the New America and the values I will be teaching my son.

Chicago Sun Times, April 2008:
At the helm of Superior Bank was Obama’s national finance chairwoman, Penny Pritzker, an heiress to the Pritzker fortune.
One of the banks that went under after making a lot of subprime loans — leaving 1,400 of its customers without part of their savings — was Chicago’s Superior Bank.
At the helm of Superior Bank at least some of the time was Obama’s national finance chairwoman, Penny Pritzker, an heiress to the Pritzker fortune.
Obama’s campaign notes that Pritzker stepped down as chairwoman of the bank’s board in 1994, seven years before it failed. She then went on the board of the bank’s holding company.
But a letter obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times shows that until the end, Pritzker appeared to be taking a leadership role in trying to revive the bank with an expanded push into subprime loans.
Pritzker wrote in May 2001 that her family was recapitalizing the bank, and she pledged to “once again restore Superior’s leadership position in subprime lending.” The bank shut down in July 2001.
——————————-
Pritzker is now a financial advisor to the President, and extremely wealthy.
The bank still owed money to people at the time of the article.

socialim101: “Poor pitiful victims…..they bought a house they could not afford beacuse some “predatory” lender twisted their arm…….and those evil credit card companies just keep sending those offers in my mail….I was powerless to resist”
=========================================
It was far worse than that. I suspect you did not have any financial responsibility at that time, given the juvenile ranting in your post.
The same people who are now blaiming the “losers” (like that Santelli), are the same people who tried to convince me that I was being STUPID (that’s what they really said, over and over again) and a THIEF OF MY OWN WALLET when I did NOT want to refinance back then. These were the same people who were convinced that house prices would ALWAYS go up, because they ALWAYS HAD. I write those words in CAPITALS, because that is how they talked to me.
This is called peer pressure. And peer pressure IS arm twisting.

I would prefer we do nothing. You, and the president, disagree. You, and the president, won. That doesn’t change how I feel about it.
Posted by: Sue | Feb 21, 2009 12:38:29 AM
This isn’t about winning and losing, it’s about righting the wrongs in this country and trying to save what was once a prosperous nation. That’s what it’s all about.

Angie,
Deregulated everything? Can you give me an example?

Sue
Bush Deregulated Banks,Bush Deregulated FDA Understand Bush was a Far right Republican he did not Believe In Deregulation Remember Republicans love the Free Market No goverment Involved!

Posted by: Sue | Feb 21, 2009 12:50:54 AM
I campaigned for Jimmy Carter, so yeah I lived through that. I am not some snot nosed kid that hasn’t been around the block and seen this country go down the tubes. I think this is even worse than back then. I personally don’t want to take a chance that things will right themselves.

Sue
The Housing Market is too far gone and too bad to let it work itself out, If we dont Try and Stop Forclosure Values of Homes will keep going Down and therfore No one will be able to sell or Refinance and it will Get alot worse.

Socialisim
You are right We have to come together As Americans, We the People have Been Divided for way too Long. But I think The Economy is too far gone to let itself Work out, Im no Fan of Big Goverment but in this Serious Crisis Im not willing to let it work its self Out I dont think it can It needs help!

Angie,
I’m still trying to find where Bush deregulated banks. All I can find is Gramm-Leach-Bliley, signed by Clinton. Sarbane-Oxley, signed by Bush, put greater restrictions on corporate fraud, accounting, etc. Maybe you meant Bush didn’t reverse Gramm-Leach-Bliley so therefore he is responsible? Anyway, I give up. Maybe you could just tell me the name of the bill Bush signed that deregulated banks.

Has anyone looked into the demographics of the folks who have sunk our country into this recession?
I’m willing to bet that the common thread – from the fat cat bankers to the irresponsible mortgage holders – is that the vast majority are baby boomers.
So if we’re forced to “rescue” these people to “save our country”, then where does that leave the rest of us?
Shouldn’t they be expected to right their own ship?
At any rate, when they’ve fallen out of power, they may find that the cupboards have been stripped bare.
Or has the social security system already been rescued through the massive “bailout”?
Personally, I’m sick of you people calling yourselves conservatives and liberals – what you represent, collectively, are pathetic spoiled brats who refuse to grow up, much less face the consequences of your actions.
So back to fighting amongst yourselves about which segment of your sorry generation bears the most responsibility for being the first to leave this country worse off than when you came into it.
May government nursing home farms be filled to the brim with drooling boomers, doped out of their minds, pushing themselves around in their little PVC walkers – and good riddance when the last stain of your sorry legacy is finally stamped out by future generations.
Until then, keep fighting amongst yourselves. But when the time comes, we’ll make certain there are enough drugs to keep you all sedated on those nursing home farms. Given the wonders of modern medicine, we should be able to cut the caretaker ratio down enough so that we won’t have to waste too much of our hard-earned money keeping you alive well past your expiration date.
If you’ve taught your kids the same values, you can rest assured they’ll cast you out in pursuit of their own self-interests, too.
Debate all you want – but in the end, you’ll reap what you’ve sewn.
So please, just keep spending your way out of your own mess – at least keep the country somewhat afloat – until we can toss all of your sorry butts off the cliff.
Generations X, Y, and Z will be more than happy to reward you for all your good works. Count on it.

Willian van Orange writes:
I write those words in CAPITALS, because that is how they talked to me.
This is called peer pressure. And peer pressure IS arm twisting.
***************************************
Mr. Van Orange I perceive from your posts that you are much too intelligent and sophisicated to succumb to peer pressure but you do raise an important point……the constant bombardment of the media and sales…….I like that little Gekko………..but I want to know more about GEICO Insurance before I send them my money. But Sir, I think we cannot now single out the “evil lenders” as any more guilty than the rest of American society…….some will say that easy credit FUELS the greed to support the “arm twisting” and peer pressure by other merchants in the American economy, but does that make them any more guilty than the business that sells useless and overpriced products we don’t really need?? Of course, the American economy has been fueled by this greed for many years….and now we can’t get by without the next “fix”………….we will make it…..as Americans….but trust me on this……be wary of the government trying to “fix” things. As Americans we have to let this thing play out……..the houses aren’t going to evaporate overnight…they just won’t be as expensive……someone will need them to live in….at a CHEAPER price…….the investors who were speculating on them will lose…but the “little guy” will have a cheaper place to live when the dust settles.

Angie,
No, you made the allegation that Bush deregulated banks, you should be able to provide the bill he signed that did it.
And with that, I will bid you all a fond adieu.
Keep up the good work, Jake. You have certainly surprised a few of us.

Bush deregulated by letting foxes guard the henhouses.

socialism101: “But Sir, I think we cannot now single out the “evil lenders” as any more guilty than the rest of American society”
==========================================
Then why are you and the rest of the conservatives blaming only the “homeowners” and not the lenders?
Or not the financial culture where extremely risky behavior was rewarded with huge bonuses?
If you even knew how often I had to refuse taking another credit card. I have always been extremely cautious with my money, but I know how hard it is when you are cashstrapped and even a minor disaster happens: your car breaks down and you really need another, or the old washing machine can not be repaired anymore. Those are the situation where not succumbing to these risky deals you’re being bombarded with on a daily basis is extremely difficult.
Most people are unaware of the risks they are taking, lenders are supposed to be the experts.

Mr. Gibbs is Mr. Obama’s worse Press Secretary in this history. He is a lot worse than Scott McClellan. And McClellan is worse, too.

It is not going to work. The stimulus package has failed. It is Obama and the Democrats’ fault.
Posted by: anonymous | Feb 21, 2009 6:24:54 AM
The second one hasn’t even been distributed so how do you know it has failed?

Posted by: Jan | Feb 21, 2009 7:10:10 AM
Exactly. We cannot afford to let one piece of the puzzle fail. IF one fails we all fail.

Jan, I guess you don’t have children. Those of us that do at times will let our children FAIL so they understand the consequences of their actions.
My son was ticketed for speeding, he could not pay the fines. I could have paid them for him and it would have been over with. Instead he had to hand over his license and go on probation until the the fines were paid off and come up with a reinstatement fee. It has been horrible for both him and me. He helped with getting his brothers places and did errands for mem, I was accustomed to the extra help. But would it have been better it to pay for his mistake to make my life easier? What would that have taught him? Life is full of lessons, the worst thing you can do is be an enabler.

Jan, I guess you don’t have children. Those of us that do at times will let our children FAIL so they understand the consequences of their actions.
**************************************
What? When children fail it usually doesn’t involve the world. It doesn’t cause you or your neighbor to lose a job, lose your house, tank your 401K.
You think your are recession proof? You think you are a head because you made all the right choices? Most of us stumbled into the jobs we have, we can’t see if they will last or not, who knows you maybe next.
If you own a home that you can afford it is probably because your bank followed the rules and didn’t allow you into one you couldn’t. Who knows though, if you lose your job will you still afford it?
A little bit of over simplification on your part if you ask me.
Oh. I have children and Grand Children and I am very concerned about them and their futures. You see they have to live in the world around them, and one of the first thing I was taught as a very young child was that I live in a society, and how my fellow citizen fails and succeeds largely depends on how I fail and succeed. That is as the world goes, so go I.

This is what happens when socialist policies are enacted, wealth goes away. Witness the incredible dive of the stock market since Obama announced his agenda.
***************************************
The market is tanking because the market is becomming increasingly aware of how dire the situation is.
This is no frigging little game for you to play. These banks are insolvent, and untill that problem is fixed it is going to be a very difficult world.

Democracies fail when the majority of voters figure out that they can vote themselves the majority of wealth from the top income earners.
Yes, we CAN.
Will the President’s Housing Plan Help Those Who Behaved Irresponsibly?
Yes, it WILL.

Hey Thinking,
I’ve made MANY bad choices financially. Ever had to pawn your stuff? Take out a Title loan on your car? Well I have. It has taken my YEARS to get out of the financial mess I PUT MYSELF IN!! I’VE WALKED IN THESE PEOPLE’S SHOES!! The lesson I’ve learned is if it’s anything is that easy there is a catch. You don’t need a banker to tell you, anything, think for yourself! Instead of thinking, because I can have it I’m going to take it, I now say, that great but WHAT IF? Can I still afford it? Yeah, that shiny new car looks great but what do new tires cost? What are the repairs gonna cost? How about the ad valorum tax? How about insurance? Some people need to learn the hard way, I was one of them.

There is a difference between greed and rewarding irresponsibility.
The interviews themselves mention that those that were unethical and irresponsible will get loans. That makes those people greedy rather then then ones against the program.
People who demand government pay for their decisions, no matter how flawed, are greedy, not those who demand responsiblity from fellow “citizens of the world”.

I’ve made MANY bad choices financially
***************************************
So have I. What is your point? This time the bad choices that have been made by someone else promises to affect and hurt one heck of a lot of people who haven’t. This is not one of your run of the mill recessions, that will just work itself out after a few months.

Hey Thinking,
Now that you deep thinkers and the Clueless Pb0 think it’s important to first solve banking and mortgage problems, recall you fashion supporters and BO himself rediculed HRC almost two years ago for her plan to solve these problem.
The Clueless instead promoted “stimulus” to give you 400 bucks. Now he put again moneygiveaways first, and reward those who do not live by theis means and by abusing the rules.
Now you have spent your grand children’s future, you feel better for the fashion of supporting a few Clueless inspirating speeches.

Angie you are obviously drunk in Kool Aid! I don’t know what planet you are on but I don’t seem to remember the citizens of this country being ok with bailing out the banks.

Angie,
Actually, a reform bill aimed at Freddie and Fannie was introduced in 2005 that would have required Fannie and Freddie to eliminate their investments in “risky assets” and it would have given a regulator the power to say “no way.” This bill came after a warning by Alan Greenspan that the two were on the path to putting our entire financial system at substantial risk.
This bill was co-sponsored by John McCain.
However, the bill never came to a vote because Democrats decided to make it a partisan issue, and opposed it along party lines.

Moderator – I posted a live link and didn’t mean to do that.
Angie,
Angie,
Actually, a reform bill aimed at Freddie and Fannie was introduced in 2005 that would have required Fannie and Freddie to eliminate their investments in “risky assets” and it would have given a regulator the power to say “no way.” This bill came after a warning by Alan Greenspan that the two were on the path to putting our entire financial system at substantial risk.
This bill was co-sponsored by John McCain.
However, the bill never came to a vote because Democrats decided to make it a partisan issue, and opposed it along party lines.

Now you have spent your grand children’s future
****************************************
Hmmm…. that is a matter of opinion.

Schumer fails to mention he has been a leading voice of deregulation. The Sun reports he championed the repeal in 1999 of the Glass-Steagall Act, the law which separated commercial and investment banking.
He also wrote an opinion piece for The Wall Street Journal in 2006 which warned about what he called “overzealous regulators” and opposed a bill in 2005 that would have transformed Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from large investment funds into “conduits” that only bought mortgages, packaged them into securities and sold them on the market.
And whatever one wants to say about the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, it must be mentioned first that it was President William Jefferson Clinton who signed the 1999 law that repealed it.

I see some posters who are lamenting just how greedy conservatives sound.
42% of the people in this country do not pay federal income tax. And Obama’ spending bill will increase that amount to approx. 50%.
So 50% of the people in this country will pay 100% of the federal income tax burden which just got bigger. Much bigger.
How is that fair?
Let the people whining about conservative greed check their own IRS statements and when they see that they are getting what amounts to welfare but is Orwellian-named Child Tax Credit.
Maybe we should start a conservative movement to demand that all Americans pay a federal income tax. Now THAT’S fair.

More rewards for the slackers who voted for Obama.
****************************************
I guess everyone one of those millions of people who have recently lost their jobs are Slackers. No good for nothing irresponsible individuals who deserved what they got. Let them eat Cake! Serves them right everyone one of them voted for Obama too!
People come in all flavors don’t they?

Did you know -
That during the “Big Depression” that
the 1930s began with federal outlays representing just 3.4 percent of the nation’s economy as measured by the gross domestic product. Roosevelt’s efforts to fight the Depression with government spending caused outlays to rise to 10.3 percent of GDP by 1939 and to 12 percent by 1941 on the eve of U.S. involvement in World War II.
By contrast, government spending was 21 percent of GDP last year. Obama’s economic recovery policies are expected to bring it up to 30 percent or more.
30%!!!
That is bad, bad news. Obama is taking us down the road of economic disaster.

Just google the words: The road to serfdom.
And you will see what we’ve become in this country.

FDR’s Treasury Secretary wrote in his diary that spending in the Depression did not work and in fact made it worse. Look it up.

I’m expecting that the Treasury is going to just start printing money willy nilly, and those same crooks are going to just cook the books to hide their massive fraud.
Madoff got away with it for years with far fewer tools and resources than the Feds have at their disposal!

Things we never see o n ABC:
“Will the TARP help those who behaved irresponsibly?”
Why does ABC try to generalize a specific critique of a specific no-nothing into an attack on all critics of the housing plan? That was certainly NOT was Gibbs said. Then again, ABC never gets tired of putting words into his mouth.

Things we never see o n ABC:
“Will the TARP help those who behaved irresponsibly?”
Why does ABC try to generalize a specific critique of a specific no-nothing into an attack on all critics of the housing plan? That was certainly NOT was Gibbs said. Then again, ABC never gets tired of putting words into his mouth.
Posted by: Flash Override | Feb 21, 2009 10:01:09 AM
**********
Neither ABC nor Jake Tapper are alleging that Gibbs said that. ABC’s evening news examined the issue (hurray for them!) and discovered through old fashioned journalistic research that yes, irresponsible people will be bailed out of the financial crisis they created for themselves.

Peach, I suggest you watch the video.
There is a concerted effort in spin originating on right wing media that is attempting to convince people that the victims of this economic disaster are to blame for causing it, laced with a lot of not so subtle racism.
Why does ABC help to perpetuate right wing talking points?

President Kennedy famously said:
“Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.”
He would be rolling in his grave right now if he saw what was happening to his party.
There is a difference between a helping hand and a bailout and excusing bad behavior.

This plan promotes house prices falling so that more people can qualify:
To quote from the White House Q&A for Borrowers about the
Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan:
“I owe more than my property is worth, do I still qualify to refinance under the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan?
Eligible loans will now include those where the new first mortgage (including any refinancing costs) will not exceed 105% of the current market value of the property. For example, if your property is worth $200,000 but you owe $210,000 or less you may qualify. The current value of your property will be determined after you apply to refinance.”
So if you are wanting to get into the bail out program you hope housing prices fall so you qualify.

Toxic Executive -
Read my posts below and you’ll see that I agree with you.
I think it was on this thread that I mentioned all the tax cheats Obama has put in his cabinet.
I was speaking specifically to the housing bill and to the topic Jake introduced to this thread: That ABC evening news researched whether irresponsible homeowners were going to get a bailout. And the answer is: Yes.

Toxic Executive,
While I don’t disagree with most of your post, I do hope that most posters understand what a vile human being George Soros is. I have a few books about him.
He brought down one of the world’s oldest banks: The Bank of England. He has enormous power to do destructive things to our economy and he is an Obama supporter. Big time.

“I do hope that most posters understand what a vile human being George Soros is.”
I don’t know much about Soros except that he’s as responsible as any single individual for coercing the “left” into promoting the “Obama” candidacy.
For that alone, I’m prepared to believe he’s a “vile human being” :^).
The important thing about Soros’ statement, though, is that he’s the first of the huge-money guys to SAY that it’s … all over, and ISN’T going to get better.
And in the meantime, the “Obama” organization has been transferring as much $, as fast as possible, to the richest people in the world … who’ll be living the good life in Argentina or wherever, while the police and the people in the US go to war.

“I’ll bet not one in ten voters have any idea about Soros.”
Soros’ remarks are at, at least, reuters and rawstory:
“We witnessed the collapse of the financial system,” Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. “It was placed on life support, and it’s still on life support. There’s no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom.”
Just WHAT “Columbia University dinner” it was, isn’t mentioned.
Does the Obama organization mean LITERALLY to wipe out the poor and near-poor? Maybe. Fascist regimes of the past have embarked on some amazingly-destructive projects.

“Hasn’t the White House admitted that their plan is not perfect? No matter how hard you try to keep the system clean, someone will exploit it. The best you can do is put in stringent safeguards … ”
Oh: “stringent”. Right. Like Geithner hahahaha.
Nobody’s buying it any more. “Obama” is over.

Skip,
Until recently, the fundamentals of the economy WERE essentially strong. They still aren’t as bad as the media and Obama would like us to believe although I think the new administration’s spending and rewarding of irresponsible behavior has just put us more at risk. Considerably more risk.
Time for some reality checks.
Myth. Our national debt doubled in the last eight years.
Fact. Nope, no matter how you measure it. In fact, if adjusted for inflation, real economic growth and population growth, it didn’t budge at all.
Here are the national debt figures in 2000 (President Clinton’s last full year) and as currently estimated for 2008 (President Bush’s last full year), as provided by our government.
2000 2008 % Increase
Total Debt (dollars) $5,628.7B $9,654.4B 72%
Held by Public ($) $3,409.8B $5,428.6B 59%
Total Debt (%GDP) 58.0% 67.5% 16%
Held by Public (%GDP) 35.1% 37.9% 8%

“actually George Soros owns the democratic party, as it is rumored…
he also gave an interview recently,i can’t remember with who (i think 60 minutes) where he talked about how he helped the Nazis steal houses from the jewish people during WW2, and he got rich off it. he had absoultely no remorse for what he did his only motivation was to get rich.”
Ahhh yes the lunatic right wing has shown up with their Soros boogeyman.
Soros was barely a teenager during WW2.

Some of my favorite nuggets from this comment section.
Whatever happened to “I am my Brother’s keeper”. — Uh, jwench, if you’re going to quote the Bible, be accurate about it. It was “Am I my brother’s keeper?” and obviously he felt the answer was a big ol’ no, because it was Cain who said it…after he killed his brother.
United We Stand/Divided We Fall….out of the mouths of the same folks who have done nothing but deride Bush and talk about how patriotic dissent is, but now that Obama’s in, dissent is sourgrapes.
It’s all interconnected. Don’t you get it? It will all fail! (Best Chicken Little impression I’ve seen since the movie came out.)

If you have had any homes in your subdivision or area go to default, you now realize that the value of your home has now plummited also. The continuation of default housing affects all of us. I have had two houses in my subdivision go by default and already, we see the value of our homes go down. To do nothing about this is senseless and stupid. Yes, there will be some who will benefit and maybe should not but many, many more will be helped and hopefully it will put the breaks on the forclosure of homes and the downing of the economy. Let’s give this new guy a chance. Never before have we not given our new president a chance. One month and the other party has not stopped complaining about him. At least he is taking some action unlike the last eight years of nothing. He will take ownership of his decisions, which is more than the other party has,yet.