Gibbs: Stock Market Can Be a ‘Lagging Economic Indicator’
EmailABC News’ Yunji de Nies and Jake Tapper report:
At his daily briefing today, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the stock market "can be a lagging economic indicator."
Many economists consider the stock market a leading economic indicator as it tends to rise and fall ahead of the broader economy.
Unemployment is traditionally a lagging indicator.
For instance, Bernard Baumohl, Chief Global Economist of Economic Outlook Group has said, "History has shown us time and time again that recessions end and recoveries begin long before we see an improvement in the labor market … After the 2001 recession concluded in November, joblessness continued to rise until the middle of 2003. We will almost certainly have another jobless recovery for many months once this recession ends, which we believe will be in the second half of the year."
"I don’t think the market always interprets what may or may not be happening in the short term and how it affects the long term," Gibbs said. "You looked at the market in October of 2007, at 14,000 points, everything was grand. Yet two months later, somehow a series of economists — and I’m sure maybe some of those interviewed by the Wall Street Journal found that we were in a recession."
Gibbs reminded reporters that when the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) initially passed, the stock market went up, but clearly the economy was in decline.
"It went up 1,000 points. Do you think at that point — did you — did you think at that point, based on the gyrations of the stock market, that our problems were solved?" Gibbs asked.
"Well, I think, as the president has enumerated, that I’m not entirely sure that the perception of the up-and-downs of the market are necessarily the perceptions of where the economy is heading."
Gibbs was asked about a recent Wall Street Journal survey, which showed that Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has less support than his predecessor Secretary Henry Paulson.
"The administration is not here to win a popularity contest among economists that are interviewed by a newspaper," Gibbs responded. "The president has great confidence in his economic team."
– Yunji de Nies and Jake Tapper
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Yeesh, Gibbs ought to stick to a subject he actually knows. This is an embarrassment.
Posted by: Joanne600 | March 12, 2009, 4:44 pm 4:44 pm
Finally a subject that Gibbs should be an expert on: Lagging.
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | March 12, 2009, 4:50 pm 4:50 pm
Gibbs just misspoke. He is not an economist.
It really isn’t that big of a deal.
Posted by: Sara | March 12, 2009, 4:56 pm 4:56 pm
He still doesn’t get it. Even if the stock market is not a barometer of the overall health of the economy (it is) it’s still the place where people have their retirement and childrens’ college accounts. THAT’S why it’s important, not necessarily because it signals, or does not signal, a recovery.
The administration persists in a very cavalier, dismissive attitude toward the wealth losses many middle- and even lower middle-class people have sustained. They continue to try to pit a “Wall Street” class of “greedy rich people”, against the average old worker on “Main Street”.
The average old worker just lost half his savings, Gibbs, at least in part due to the panic and anti-business rhetoric of this administration . A little respect, please?
Posted by: a free man | March 12, 2009, 4:56 pm 4:56 pm
Remember the Dow is just like any poll.
Posted by: Peace Train | March 12, 2009, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm
Hearing this, and listening to Obama’s speech at the business round table, I see what they are trying to do.
They are painting the market at its high point as a bubble. It wasn’t real wealth, because it was based on Wall Street delusions.
They are going to peg the current market as the new baseline upon which “real, sustainable” growth will be built. Until then, we will be seeing some “gyrations”.
They are trying to point us away from the idea that actual people have lost and are losing real wealth.
Posted by: MayBee | March 12, 2009, 5:05 pm 5:05 pm
Former Obama supporter Megan McArdle has now become a right-winger:
“Having defended Obama’s candidacy largely on his economic team, I’m having serious buyer’s remorse. [Timothy] Geithner, who is rapidly starting to look like the weakest link, is rattling around by himself in Treasury. Meanwhile, the administration is clearly prioritized a stimulus package that will not work without fixing the banks over, um, fixing the banking system. Unlike most fiscal conservatives, I’m not mad at him for trying to increase the size of the government; that’s, after all, what he got elected promising to do. But he also promised to be non-partisan and accountable, and the size and composition stimulus package looks like just one more attempt to ram through his ideological agenda without much scrutiny, with the heaviest focus on programs that will be especially hard to cut.”
Short version: He lied to us.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | March 12, 2009, 5:07 pm 5:07 pm
The stock market can be both a lagging and a leading economic indicator. If it was a solely leading indicator, then stocks like Enron and the more recent ones like Citi and AIG wouldn’t rather suddenly declare insolvency. One doesn’t simply preclude the other.
Posted by: kat the real one | March 12, 2009, 5:14 pm 5:14 pm
A free man said: [[He still doesn't get it. Even if the stock market is not a barometer of the overall health of the economy (it is) it's still the place where people have their retirement and childrens' college accounts. THAT'S why it's important, not necessarily because it signals, or does not signal, a recovery.
The administration persists in a very cavalier, dismissive attitude toward the wealth losses many middle- and even lower middle-class people have sustained. They continue to try to pit a "Wall Street" class of "greedy rich people", against the average old worker on "Main Street".
The average old worker just lost half his savings, Gibbs, at least in part due to the panic and anti-business rhetoric of this administration . A little respect, please?]]
I’m on of those average workers. We had money in college accounts for our kids. And the market fell out of one of those accounts, just as the child in question hit her freshman year. We’re having to use the savings for NEXT year THIS year, because our only chance of regaining what was lost is to leave the money there, and watch it sink further…
Real people, indeed. That’s real money evaporating.
Posted by: Sick of the Obamaessiah | March 12, 2009, 5:14 pm 5:14 pm
If economic numbers tick up in the next weeks and month then it shows that the Obama stimulus plan (non-bank related) will be basically a waste of taxpayers money. The economy would be recovering with out this added debt and waste of taxpayers money.
Posted by: Sally J | March 12, 2009, 5:18 pm 5:18 pm
Imagine if one of Bush’s people had said this – the libs would be laughing for the next several weeks & they would demand that this person resign.
Posted by: Thomas Wheatstone | March 12, 2009, 5:20 pm 5:20 pm
with the heaviest focus on programs that will be especially hard to cut
hard to cut…as in popular.
The cad!
Posted by: Paul Dirks | March 12, 2009, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm
When the DOW goes up for a few days Obama must be fearful that the crisis is getting better.
No more crisis no more spending money for Obama.
But there’s always taxes on heat, gas, electricity, cell phones–there goes our $13 a week.
Posted by: sammy | March 12, 2009, 5:24 pm 5:24 pm
“They are painting the market at its high point as a bubble. It wasn’t real wealth, because it was based on Wall Street delusions.”
When some of these firms were leveraging up to 30 or 40 to 1, how can you call that real wealth?
Posted by: Skip | March 12, 2009, 5:24 pm 5:24 pm
I really, really want to know where Obama’s considerable wealth is invested.
Not that it matters much. He has a guaranteed pension and years of highly paid speech-making ahead of him. He won’t ever rely on Michelle’s 401(k).
But I still want to know how his money is invested. How much skin he has in this game.
Posted by: MayBee | March 12, 2009, 5:26 pm 5:26 pm
More evidence of the economic prowess of the Obama Administration.
I watched this live – Gibbs clearly had a pre-planned response on the markets with this idiotic “it aint a leading indicator” comment as the centerpiece.
What a joke.
On a related note, congrats to Jake for being the ONLY journalist at the briefings to not giggle along w Gibbs like a 10 year old girl at a Jonas Brothers concert.
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter | March 12, 2009, 5:26 pm 5:26 pm
Former Obama supporter Megan McArdle has now become a right-winger . . .
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Anyone can feign that switch role. It’s not uncommon on blogs. The portrait of Megan reads like a Mattel description of some political Barbie doll. Really, the right wing media should be able to do a better or more realistic job of fabrication than this.
Posted by: Get Real | March 12, 2009, 5:28 pm 5:28 pm
This entire administration needs to just shut up already.
Posted by: marylou | March 12, 2009, 5:29 pm 5:29 pm
jim-
I have no doubt the economy will recover, either sooner or later.
We will still be stuck with paying for all of this. All the enormous spending so far is just enough to get projects going, not to complete anything.
We’re going to be paying this for a looooong time. Perhaps the thought of that makes you laugh, but not me.
Posted by: MayBee | March 12, 2009, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
Jim – the economy is already recovering – consumer spending is up even higher than earlier reported in January and down only .1% in Feb…all teh major banks are reporting profits in jan and feb.
I guess it wasnt the END OF THE WORLD like Obama said if we didnt give him 800 billion in pork, huh?
Only Obama’s anti-business policies can stop a recovery.
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter | March 12, 2009, 5:39 pm 5:39 pm
The stock market is both a lagging and leading economic indicator? One doesn’t preclude the other? Oh really?
Posted by: Joanne600 | March 12, 2009, 5:39 pm 5:39 pm
“Former Obama supporter Megan McArdle has now become a right-winger:”
Megan McArdle has always been on the right.
Why do you think Instapundit linked to her so much?
She’s just not as insane as most of the right wingers.
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 5:41 pm 5:41 pm
“When some of these firms were leveraging up to 30 or 40 to 1, how can you call that real wealth?”
Skip did you see that article in the Globe about banks not paying FDIC premimums for 10 years?
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm
“They are painting the market at its high point as a bubble. It wasn’t real wealth, because it was based on Wall Street delusions.”
Published: April 15 2008 22:25 | Last updated: April 15 2008 22:25
Activity in credit derivatives has continued to explode in spite of investors’ and regulators’ growing concern that recent events such as the Bear Stearns’ implosion have highlighted potential weaknesses in the infrastructure of this market.
The total volume of outstanding credit derivatives contracts stood at $62,200bn at the end of last year, up from $34,500bn a year earlier, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association will announce at its annual conference in Vienna today. This is 10 times the level of four years ago.
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 5:46 pm 5:46 pm
We’re going to be paying this for a looooong time…
What scenario do you imagine where we aren’t paying for a looong time?
Just ride it out and never mind the tent cities?
Just let the economy come to a screeching halt?
Indeed the stimulus will have to be payed for. But then again, so would the depression.
Now if only we’d been paying taxes at a rate commensurate with our spending all along, these fresh numbers wouldn’t be nearly a scary, now would they?
Posted by: Paul Dirks | March 12, 2009, 5:49 pm 5:49 pm
“Skip did you see that article in the Globe about banks not paying FDIC premimums for 10 years?”
No but I saw someone post about it yesterday or the day before.
I can’t say that I can’t believe it, but I don’t know what to say. It’s amazing.
Posted by: Skip | March 12, 2009, 5:52 pm 5:52 pm
“I am going to laugh my butt off when the economy recovers”
Hopefully you won’t wake the other residents at the old-age home.
Posted by: Jim Treacher | March 12, 2009, 5:56 pm 5:56 pm
Time to leave your blogs to the nuts that respond.
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Sorry, but I think the content and choice of words with the titles and headlines have a lot to do with the large numbers of right wing extremist responses.
Posted by: kat the real one | March 12, 2009, 6:13 pm 6:13 pm
people need to give this administration and its policies some time to work.
thats the problem with the american voter/citizen ,they are uninformed or misinformed ,impatient and always looking for the “quick/easy fix”.
i am sure the lying republicans will offer just what the gullible public wants to hear next election cycle ,i.e. tax cuts for everyone! (along with the stars and the moon) , and i am pretty sure the american voter is both stupid and impatient enough to believe them. again.and again.and again etc…ad nauseum
Posted by: people = duh | March 12, 2009, 6:15 pm 6:15 pm
Sorry, but I think the content and choice of words with the titles and headlines have a lot to do with the large numbers of right wing extremist responses.
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Yes and I am being used by ABC and I do not want to play anymore I leave it with the nuts. I stopped watching now I’ll stop responding and soon stop even reading.
The4re is no real discussion. It is impossible.
Posted by: Thinking | March 12, 2009, 6:26 pm 6:26 pm
“Sorry, but I think the content and choice of words with the titles and headlines have a lot to do with the large numbers of right wing extremist responses.”
While the headlines may grab attention, its the links from Drudge or mentions by Rush that cause a flurry of wingers.
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 6:37 pm 6:37 pm
If it was a solely leading indicator, then stocks like Enron and the more recent ones like Citi and AIG wouldn’t rather suddenly declare insolvency
—————————————
Individual companies’ stock prices are not necessarily an indicator of the overall market.
Posted by: mad | March 12, 2009, 6:38 pm 6:38 pm
When you go in front of the world and ask for $ trillions it really takes something to turn around and lecture us about ‘bubbles’..
Go ahead, Mr. Obama, show us bubbles, lots and lots and lots of bubbles. WE LOVE BUBBLES!!
Posted by: Average Joe | March 12, 2009, 6:39 pm 6:39 pm
Gibbs: Stock Market Can Be a ‘Lagging Economic Indicator’
Obama: …’profit and earning’ ratios are starting to get to the point where buying stocks is a potentially good deal …
These are the people who take more and more of your money. They have no clue about how to earn or manage finance, except to tax, borrow, print and spend.
Posted by: Greg Toombs | March 12, 2009, 6:46 pm 6:46 pm
The stock market is nothing but a casino. It ceased to have anything to do with the real economy a long time ago.
Posted by: Flash Override | March 12, 2009, 6:46 pm 6:46 pm
What scenario do you imagine where we aren’t paying for a looong time?
Now if only we’d been paying taxes at a rate commensurate with our spending all along, these fresh numbers wouldn’t be nearly a scary, now would they?
========
I would have preferred our spending to be at a rate commensurate with the taxes we were paying.
I imagine a scenario where spending was less profligate taking a lot less time to pay off.
Posted by: MayBee | March 12, 2009, 7:01 pm 7:01 pm
While the headlines may grab attention, its the links from Drudge or mentions by Rush that cause a flurry of wingers.
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That too. But I was also referring to the content of the articles. This one, for example, is attempting to discredit Gibbs by way of semantics. I’m just tired of seeing Obama and his people journalistically framed. He’s done a lot of good for the country over the past 7 weeks and is a blessed reprieve from the previous administration.
Posted by: kat the real one | March 12, 2009, 7:04 pm 7:04 pm
Actually Ryan C, some of us just like to read Tapper because he’s one of the very few in the msm who isn’t an Obama sycophant. And of course we like to have fun with all you diehard lefties.
Posted by: Joanne600 | March 12, 2009, 7:05 pm 7:05 pm
And of course we like to have fun with all you diehard lefties.
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Yeah, which comes in the form of all sorts of fabricated like allegations, like Megan McArdle and droves of Canadians coming across the border for MRIs and surgical procedures.
Posted by: kat the real one | March 12, 2009, 7:19 pm 7:19 pm
“I’m just tired of seeing Obama and his people journalistically framed.”
It comes with the territory.
I do not envy Gibbs.
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 7:20 pm 7:20 pm
You seem to take very personal issue with the fact that Canadians cross the border for MRIs, cancer care and various surgical procedures, but you haven’t refuted it. You also fail to analyze the WHO report and how healthcare in the US could possibly be ranked properly at that level, and even more unbelievably, below that of the UK. The ranking comes from the UN, which should at least give you some intellectual curiosity as to how they came up with the numbers.
Posted by: Joanne600 | March 12, 2009, 7:33 pm 7:33 pm
You seem to take very personal issue with the fact that Canadians cross the border for MRIs, cancer care and various surgical procedures, but you haven’t refuted it.
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Reason and common sense refute your earlier claim on another blog about the “droves” of Canadians crossing over for medical help. If Canadians have the option of private insurance to either replace or supplement their national coverage, why would they go to the expense of paying in full for treatment here, not to mention the travel and time expenditures that would involve. Can you provide any substantiation that that scenario you claim actually exists?
What in the world do you mean when I have failed to analyze a WHO report that ranks US care below the UK, which you attribute to the UN also? I couldn’t make any sense of that and how it’s tied to your claim about numerous Canadians seeking medical care in the US. PLEASE don’t bother to further explain anything!
Posted by: kat the real one | March 12, 2009, 7:50 pm 7:50 pm
can they make up their mind? one day jobs is the lagging indicator, now its the stock market. but don’t you dare question them!!! you’ll end up like welch and buffet. UNDER THE BUS!
Posted by: bhudda flii | March 12, 2009, 7:53 pm 7:53 pm
“You also fail to analyze the WHO report and how healthcare in the US could possibly be ranked properly at that level, and even more unbelievably, below that of the UK. The ranking comes from the UN, which should at least give you some intellectual curiosity as to how they came up with the numbers.”
So to prove the US ranking by the WHO is faulty, you stamp your feet and claim its impossible?
That’s your “analysis” that we can’t possibly be lower than the UK?
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 8:20 pm 8:20 pm
Kat, Joanne is upset because I brought up the US’s ranking by the WHO in the other thread.
Of course she did not challenge the life expectancy and infant mortality rates from the CIA but I digress.
Posted by: Ryan C | March 12, 2009, 8:21 pm 8:21 pm
Turned out the UN was right about Iraq, so why not about health?
Who would you rather believe? the US media? It staggers the imagination…
Posted by: Flash Override | March 12, 2009, 9:16 pm 9:16 pm
lol. Well, what is it? A lagging economic indicator or a tracking poll?
Posted by: Sigmonde | March 12, 2009, 9:18 pm 9:18 pm
The WHO numbers can and likely are skewed in several ways. I’m not upset about it all, because anything that comes out of the UN is suspect. I just think it’s would be great if we could analyze the data instead of taking WHO at face value. For instance re live births, we record among live births premature births that other nations count as miscarriages and stillbirths. Life expectancy isn’t all about healthcare – we have a higher murder rate, we lose more lives in military action, there are lifestyle issues that cause people to have shorter lives. As there is no raw data to see, thus no way to analyze, my comments about the UK are based on my reading and my own experience. The state of National Health in England is no big secret. There is a terrible shortage of doctors and nurses and the level of care is not what we are used to in this country. There is however excellent private care in the UK.
Posted by: Joanne600 | March 12, 2009, 9:50 pm 9:50 pm
The Daily Show video exposing the stupidity of Cramer has done more for the markets than any economic indicators this week.
Posted by: Common Sense | March 12, 2009, 10:37 pm 10:37 pm
The administration continues to
show its incompetence and Gibbs is
living proof. What a buffoon.
He makes Biden look smart!
Posted by: reaganfan | March 13, 2009, 11:35 am 11:35 am
Obama is a lagging indicator of the gullibility of the American voter. Gibbs: All of Auburn is ashamed of you
Posted by: ProtectFreedom | March 13, 2009, 11:58 am 11:58 am
It’s no wonder that Obama’s poll numbers are lower than Bush’s at this same time in their presidencies. Gibbs makes Scott McClellan look like a rhetorical genius.
Posted by: robtr | March 13, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm
Stock Market a lagging indicator? LOl, yet ANOTHER ridiculous statement by someone totally uncomprehending regarding anything to do with an economy.
The markets have ALWAYS been “forward looking” and as an investor for 35 years i can testify as to their accuracy of telling us where we will be 6-9 months down the road.
This Administration is in so far over it’s head it is beyond funny and is downright frightening. Te president is a puppet and we don’t even know who is yanking his strings. he makes gaffe after gaffe, flip flop after flip flop and has about the most incompetent press secretary since Stehenopolous.
This is what the sheeple of America get for putting a yokel whose resume fits nicely on the back of a postage stamp into the WH.
Posted by: Joseph | March 13, 2009, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm
Can I ask why nobody from ABC challenged that ridiculous statement about the market (DOW, I assume) rising 1000 points when the EESA/TARP was passed?
The bill passed on October 3rd. The SPX closed that day at 1099. It has not been there since, and over the next two months the index lost 22%, with the majority of the loss coming over the next FIVE TRADING DAYS.
Where are the HONEST journalists?
Posted by: Karl Denninger | March 13, 2009, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm
Wait a minute, I thought market were “forward-looking”. Now they’re a “lagging indicator”? I’m so confused!
Posted by: Joe498120 | March 13, 2009, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm
“It’s no wonder that Obama’s poll numbers are lower than Bush’s at this same time in their presidencies.”
Obama’s numbers are higher than Bush’s were at the same time though not by much.
Obama has been in the low 60′s in most approval polls.
According to RCP latest gathering
Gallup: 62%
Rasmussen: 56%
Ipsos/McClatchy: 65%
Newsweek: 58%
FoxNews: 63%
While Bush was in the mid to high 50′s during the same time period.
(polls from March 2001, with multiple polls listed early to later)
ABCWapo: 58%
FoxNews/Opinion Dynamics: 56%, 57%
NBC/WSJ: 57%
Gallups/USAT: 63%, 58%, 53%
CBS: 60%
Newsweek: 55%
LAT: 62%
Harris: 49%
IBD: 49%
Time.CNN: 55%
Bloomberg: 54%
Posted by: Ryan C | March 13, 2009, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm
“Can I ask why nobody from ABC challenged that ridiculous statement about the market (DOW, I assume) rising 1000 points when the EESA/TARP was passed?”
What he should have referenced.
“The market RALLIED 8.5% on September 18 and 19 when Paulson announced the TARP”
Posted by: Ryan C | March 13, 2009, 1:55 pm 1:55 pm
I am amazed at people posting that they had their kids college money in stocks. Stocks are for money you can afford to lose. They can frequently become much like a pyramid scheme, where a stock can be ‘talked’ up much more than its real value. A lousy CEO can ruin a good company, a bad product recall can kill a stock’s worth, etc. This isn’t anyplace for your kid’s college money or even your retirement if you are less than 15 years away. The price of many stocks were over-valued for the very reason that too many people were using stocks as a bank, lured by the promise of quick profits. The great demand cause by many more buyers artificially inflated their value.
I wouldn’t use stock prices as an indicator of economic health. I would use job gains(especially in living-wage jobs), trade balances and cost-of living to assess the health of an economy. Stocks are about the gamblers among us.
Posted by: Lydia | March 13, 2009, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm
Why no follow up on this by the MSM this was an out and out lie. The stock market didn’t rally 1000 after TARP passage. I mean how many lies can this group of morons think they can get away with. And how long is the MSM going to let them pull the wool over our eyes. Where’s Seymour Hersh, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein when you need them.
Posted by: Paul | March 13, 2009, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm
The hits just keep on coming from the Brother Gibbs.
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | March 13, 2009, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm
“It went up 1,000 points. Do you think at that point — did you — did you think at that point, based on the gyrations of the stock market, that our problems were solved?”
Shame on you, Jake!
Don’t let Gibbs lie like and then let him get away with it!:
“October 3rd was the day the bill passed. The S&P closed at 1099 that day.
It fell relentlessly until 11/20 at which time it closed at 752, for a loss of approximately 22% over the next two months.
There was no material retracement and at no time did the index go over 1099 from that day forward.
Revisionism is common in politics but out-and-out lying requires a special art, as does our media’s unwillingness to call out a White House that lies straight to their face.”
See Denninger’s Market Ticker, “Obama’s Revisionism and ABC’s Stupidity.”
Ouch!
Posted by: Gone Gulchin' | March 13, 2009, 5:12 pm 5:12 pm
you should have stayed with the BeeGees Mr. Gibbs.
Posted by: s | March 13, 2009, 8:14 pm 8:14 pm
I think that journalism has become a complete joke.
Below is the definition of a journalist from Wikipedia.
“A journalist (also called a newspaperman) is a person who practices journalism, the gathering and dissemination of information about current events, trends, issues, and people while striving for viewpoints that aren’t biased.”
When did it become a journalist job to regurgitate what they hear without any fact checking?
This article is rampant with disinformation starting with the title. What a joke!
No wonder we have a bunch of sheep in this country. We have sheep reporting to sheep.
Posted by: S | March 14, 2009, 2:11 pm 2:11 pm
It went up 1,000 points????
On 10/3/08 when the program was passed the Dow closed at 10,325. One week after it passed the Dow was at 8,451… Almost 2,000 points LOWER…
As of last week; 5 months after it was passed, it was at 6,449.
In the past week we’ve finally have seen some relief in the relentless selling and we’re back to 7,223.
Gibbs is either a liar, an idiot, or both.
Posted by: FedUP | March 15, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am
hey, I think the economy is doing really well and I don’t see the problem of what is going on.
Posted by: betty | March 26, 2009, 11:50 am 11:50 am