President Obama Tells Automakers Their Viability Plans Are Lemons

It’s time for the same kind of realistic talk about AIG, Citi, and Bof A. NO MORE BAILOUT MONEY FOR CORPORATE GREED AND MALFEASANCE. I’m dissapointed in our new Pres. Of course, he hasn’t tortured anyone or started a war based on lies.

No war? Just class war. And he’s in the upper class, make no mistake about that.

Chrysler is weak, no doubt. Only reason to keep it afloat is to help the suppliers. The Jeep brandname is the only thing that will survive.

This is good. Responsibility shifted from Mr. Wagner to Government. I was surprised last time when their lousy plan got billions of dollars. Even start up companies offers much better business plan than what all automakers presented last time. They were just dragging the heavy loads of UAW, dealership mess they created.

I ask the question..
Is this the beginning of Dictatorship Rule?

Tough love for the auto industry and auto workers, more restriction-free handouts to AIG and banks and Wall Streeters.

Excuse me. Sounds like to me we now have too much government oversight. This is not what I voted for and my senators and congressmen had better pay close attention to their voters. AIG should fold first. Shame.

Yes this is the beginning of dictatorship rule. It is becoming very obvious to me that Obama is a tyrant. He wants to take over all Americans lives and tell us how to live, eat, how to work, and what temp we can our house environements at. If I were GM and Chrysler, I would go bankrupt instead of getting in bed with Obama’s government. Americans are really going to suffer and lose our rights under this tyrant, Obama.

Obama needs to get tough with the banks as he has with GM and Chrysler.

Here, Here, Sandy! Agree with you 100%!

Jake, other *sources* are saying this was a primer for an announcement tomorrow that there will be no more GM/Chrysler bailouts. I have seen 4 stories, all with anonymous *sources*, all with differing outcomes. Bring us the truth, when you can.

I own a 93 Pontiac and a 00 Dodge and have never had a problem with them and if they are still around a will buy another Dodge. The problems with the American Auto Industry is not so much the quality but it is
1. The unions
2. Foreign auto makers, when they can import freely and it almost takes an act of God to export, plus all of the foreign plants that have opened in the States in the last decade how in the world can they compete.
And about Obama, Well I tried to warn everyone.

I voted for Obama but I disagreed with him and his people in bailing out those greedy AIG, BOA, CitiBank and other financial institutes. The latters should be allowed to die naturally in due courses. It’s better cut off you rotten limb than keep it and let it kills you. There is no equality in our law when the average American and their future generations have to pay for the wrong doing of the privilege few.

The carmakers need to beg for their bailout money to the oil industry. It is the one making a profit, thanks to the gas guzzlers from GM and Chrysler.
Exxon is pretty quiet right now. They all want to keep their cash among themselves.

It’s time for the same kind of realistic talk about AIG, Citi, and Bof A. NO MORE BAILOUT MONEY FOR CORPORATE GREED AND MALFEASANCE. I’m dissapointed in our new Pres. >>>>> Seems like the only companies paying a price hire everyday people. Brokers that pull down 6 figures salaries are not your average people.

thats nice he got tough with the ceo of GM. If he had ever run a manufacturing company he would know he now needs some one more capable than that man to protect the shareholders and the US investment. Promising money IF a plan is in place is all well and good but It will be interesting getting a plan without a CEO. he should have thought about this after the first meeting. Nothing has changed. Now they will be put even farther behind the eight ball. I am no fan of Wagoneer but any forced blood letting should have been done before the first money was loaned.
as a manufacturer who deals with the auto industry i can assure you companies like mine like will be putting gm on the COD list for invoices. this will further worsen the situation and cash burn. this could have been averted by prudent intervention. once again the president shows he is not knowledgebale enough to handle the problem properly. he doesnt even know what is going to happen because he doesnt understand manufacturing. Wait till gm and chrysler go down and 2 million plus jobs are lost across the board in a 60 day period.

“I went to sleep in America in 2009 and woke up in a 1970′s USSR.”
Give me a break.

What U.S. auto industry ? I have not bought a U.S. make car for the last 30 years. I believe my next car will be a Korean make. This is low tech stuff. The U.S. just cannot and would not want to compete. This administration is taking us to the abyss.

I’m not buying any American car; see ‘er latter!

I admire the tough “make it so” stance with the Big 3 auto manufacturers. So, when’s the government going to get tough on the banking and insurance industries? If any industry needs a good spanking, it’s those two!

THIS USED TO BE A HELL OF A GOOD COUNTRY!

“Promising money IF a plan is in place is all well and good but It will be interesting getting a plan without a CEO. ” blah… The new CEO is the guy who handled the restructuring, so they aren’t losing anything. The auto team does have manufacturing guys in the team, not just finance guys… and the government is guaranteeing operations, so no need for COD. More details are coming out, and it’s not as “ignorant” as you want it to be…

go to this page i havnt done much research i read the article a minute and a half ago. and something soundes wierd so i typed in “fiat and its subsidiaries” to google and this is the first thing i came across….interesting that the president would recomend partnering with fiat………this article is from the department of justice……not paying attention are we…..
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Fiat Agrees to $7 Million Fine in Connection with Payment of $4.4 Million in Kickbacks by Three Subsidiaries Under the U.N. Oil for Food Program
WASHINGTON – Fiat S.p.A. (Fiat), an Italian corporation based in Turin, Italy, has agreed to a $7 million penalty for illegal kickbacks paid to officials of the former Iraqi government by three of its subsidiaries, Acting Assistant Attorney General Matthew Friedrich of the Criminal Division announced today. Fiat agreed to pay the fine as part of a deferred prosecution agreement with the Department. The matter is part of the Justice Department’s ongoing investigation into the U.N. Oil for Food program.
Criminal informations were filed today against three Fiat subsidiaries in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Iveco S.p.A. (Iveco) and CNH Italia S.p.A. (CNH Italia) were each charged with one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and to violate the books and records provisions of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA). CNH France S.A. (CNH France) was charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
Fiat has acknowledged responsibility for the actions of its three subsidiaries, Iveco, CNH Italia and CNH France, whose employees and agents made improper payments to the former Iraqi government in order to obtain contracts with Iraqi ministries to provide industrial pumps, gears and other equipment. The agreement requires the company and its subsidiaries to cooperate fully with the Justice Department’s ongoing Oil for Food investigation.
According to the agreement and the informations filed today, between 2000 and 2002, Iveco, CNH Italia and CNH France paid a total of approximately $4.4 million to the Iraqi government by inflating the price of contracts by 10 percent before submitting the contracts to the United Nations for approval, and concealed from the United Nations the fact that the price contained a kickback to the Iraqi government. Iveco and CNH Italia also inaccurately recorded the kickback payments as “commissions” and “service fees” for its agents in its books and records.
In recognition of Fiat’s thorough review of the illicit payments and its implementation of enhanced compliance policies and procedures, the Department has agreed to defer prosecution of criminal charges against Fiat and its three subsidiaries for a period of three years. If Fiat abides by the terms of the agreement, at the end of the three-year period the Department will dismiss the criminal informations against the subsidiaries.
The Oil for Food Program was established by the United Nations to enable Iraq to sell its oil for humanitarian purposes, in the context of an extensive international sanctions regime. The Oil for Food Program mandated that the proceeds of oil sales be deposited in a United Nations bank account and that those proceeds be used by the Iraqi government only to purchase humanitarian goods and services, such a food and medicine, approved by the United Nations. Beginning in 2000, the Iraqi government began requiring companies wishing to sell humanitarian goods to government ministries to pay a kickback, often mischaracterized as an “after sales services fee,” to the government in order to be granted a contract. The amount of that fee was usually 10 percent of the contract price. Such payments were not permitted under the Oil for Food Program or other sanction regimes then in place.
In a related matter, Fiat reached a settlement today with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on a complaint and agreed to pay $3.6 million in civil penalties and $7,209,142 in disgorgement of profits, including pre-judgment interest, in connection with contracts for which its subsidiaries paid kickbacks to the Iraqi government.
The investigation of Iveco, CNH Italia and CNH France, and of other humanitarian goods suppliers involved with the Oil for Food Program, is being conducted by the Criminal Division’s Fraud Section and the FBI’s Washington Field Office. This case is being prosecuted by Fraud Section Trial Attorney Lori Weinstein.
To date, more than $24 million in penalties have been levied by the Department of Justice in cases involving the suppliers of humanitarian goods under the U.N. Oil for Food program.
The Department acknowledges and expresses its appreciation of the significant assistance provided by the staff of SEC’s Enforcement Division in the ongoing Oil for Food investigation.
Fiat Information
Fiat Deferred prosecution agreement
Fiat France Information
Fiat Italy Information
###
08-1140

AMERICAN CAR MAKERS CAN NOT COMPETE WITH $.50/DAY CHILD LABOR. FACT! THEY ALREADY HAVE UNSKILLED LABOR DOWN TO ABOUT 1-2 $ ABOVE MIN, WAGE. WITH MIN BENEFITS. TARIFF TAX IS A NECESSITY, NOT AN OPTION.

I wonder if the UAW and leadership and their lapdog Congressman Dingbat and Michigan Senators all would vote for Obama now. They praised the messiah and now he is pulling the rug out from under them, too bad you greedy s.o.b.’s.

Many of us would love to buy American made vehicles but we wont because they are poorly designed and are constantly in need of repair. You cannot afford to buy one basically -the upkeep is tremendous. The auto industry is to blame…They should have started to wake up 30 years ago but they just pushed their junk and their gas guzzling suv’s !!! Even offering big rebates to americans to buy bigger and bigger trucks and Suv’s. Totally out of touch with reality and gas prices etc …. Never concerned about conservation or the environment at all. Now they will pay dearly for their obstinence. We will keep buying Hyundai, Honda, Nissan etc because they are well made and fuel efficient.

Government response , no we dont like that plan . No we dont like that plan either . No we dont like that plan either .
If the government knows how to turn things around , then tell them what you want and they will either tell them that it can be done or no it cant be done and how to do it .
What the government should do is place an order for something like ten to twenty thousand Volt type of cars and advance payment for them . The company GM , should make a commitment to only make cars that use the Volt technology (Chevy Volt , Cadillac Converj , and Buick Electra ) and conventional vehicles that are all Series Hybrid and high mileage with a factory or two to make commercial puck up trucks for business.
No cushy plush pickup trucks for anybody , and no big ugly SUV’s for anybody including the government . Maximum engine displacement at 2 liters . ( good for 200 horse power )
Chrysler should commit to making only the highest possible fuel efficient cars and commercial vehicles , Series Hybrids and Pure Electric vehicles and conventional Work type of trucks and vans , but no luxury SUV’s either .
Ford has already stated that it plans to go Hybrid and Pure Electric with its production in the coming years .
It would be good for the American automobile industry to make the change to high mileage Series Hybrids and Pure Electric vehicles now and lead the world in this technology for years to come .
If the government wants to help , let them place and pay for orders of the new technology and leave the management look after the research , development and production of them .
If I am running a factory that makes cars with V6 engines that get 24 miles per gallon and a customer wants a 4 cylinder Series Hybrid that gets 50 miles per gallon and is willing to pay up front for them , damn it , I will make as many as they want . If the price of fuel is high enough so that the cars are attractive to the general public I will even increase the supply by adding another shift to the production line . After all one client is good , but many clients is a lot better and makes more profit for my company .
An adjustment on the retail price of gas and a known price would help too so I can forecast what my production numbers will be .
Dont blame Rick for this , the blame has to be shared by the government for not setting a price for fuel like they have in Europe . ( $3. would be a good starting price )
It is the American way , dont take the blame for anything , blame somebody else if you can .

Absolutely amazing! No concessions from the UAW, so obviously no matter what solution is worked out, without these concessions from the UAW it’s game over for GM and Chrysler.
How in the world can Obama now become a dictator to AmeriKan companies, no matter if they took the freely given taxpayer dollars or not? And if Odumba can become a corproate dictator he can become an AmeriKan dictator as well. I simply don’t like what I am seeing here.

What a joke. Everyone who wants union to go are the ones who never worked for them. They like working for the good old boy network. If you suck up and kiss butt you can get ahead. Unions are not perfect but they did not cause this mess. Stop and think about the investment. If a American auto worker makes 26.00 per hour and they build 75 trucks per hour at a selling price of 20,000 per vehicle that is a very good return on the investment. The plant has 2500 employees equals 650000.00 per day and they are putting out 1200 trucks in 2 eight hour shifts that is 1200000.00 worth of goods. Now the average worker at Wal-Mart or any other company does not come close to those kind of figures. I know there are other costs such as insurance and retirees are getting a pension. But retirees are not a direct cost on the production. Unions have taken over the insurance for the auto workers funded by a negotiated plan with the big 3.
Also do not forget who was there when the foreign countries fought us in WW2 auto plants turned to making war equipment.I do not think it was American workers who bombed Pearl Harbor. Who was there after 9-11. It surely was not Honda Toyota or the foreign companies.
Funny how everyone wants to kill the auto company and the work force when times are tough but they are the first ones tapped when it is a boom economy.
I think it can and will turn around and they are not asking to get a gift it is a loan. Times have been tough before.
I think the president is jumping in over his head. he was given all kinds of help when he needed an education. I supported him and voted for him now I am not so sure. He has changed his tune. Maybe if he decided to tell all the foreign companies to go home and bought back the American jobs over seas we could fix this, What wrong with America first. The foreign car plants could be retooled to build AMERICAN items.
There is mouch more to this than most american workers understand. Hatered for unions was fed by mis led executives telling stories and exagurating the facts against unions.
Sam Walton did not get to be one of the richest people in the world by treating his employees fairly.
Work needs to be done but if the auto industry reduces pay and cuts benefitS. Then Wal Mart and McDonalds will also reduce to reflect the current structure.
I am all for reducing if it will be across the board. Lets go back to .25 cent a gallon gas, houses for 10,000 etc.
When this country was settled the states gave people land to come and set up homesteads maybe we need to get back to that system and just start over. The current $15.00 per week in tax cuts does nothing.
It will be worked out but it is going to take time and killing the American auto industry is not the answer.

Yeah, Unions ARE the cause of this mess. Do you see Toyota in trouble? And how scary is it that O’Bama asks the CEO to resign – can you imagine cars being built by the government??? Oh boy, we’re in REAL trouble now!!

I believe that I’ll hang on to my crappy, poorly constructed Chrysler as it may become a collectors item with Chrysler going under. —— I really don’t understand why Obama did not require AIG, the banks, Wall Street,etc. to “restructure” as well. Must of been all those “campaign contributions”.

I totally agree with the Govt’s decision to force an uncompetent CEO to step down. The Govt has to make sure taxpayer money is being used wisely. GM and Chrysler knew the consequence when they took the bailout money. Bankruptcy will be the way out.

Amazing that a man who is not a naturalized citizen of the U.S. and who has never ran a lemonade stand in his life has the audacity to give marching orders to a major corporation.
But Obama drones wanted hope and change – they’re going to get it, in spades.

I say put Axelrod in charge. What is needed here first is some sales. Axelrod was able to sell America on the Obamamobile. Surely he call sell a few cars.

Fay wrote “I think it’s time that GM and Chrysler, along with the rest of us, decide whether our glorious politicians are worth saving!”
Really Fay? Who went knocking on who’s door for money?

Does anyone realize that liberal wacko environmental policies like CAFE standards and not drilling for oil here, combined with the highest corporate taxes in the world, combined with workers who bite the very hand that feeds them with ridiculous demands, and a car company with bloated middle management that spends too much on advertising and not enough on design have all created a perfect storm for GM? GM *should* have declared bankruptcy 10 years ago, moved out of Detroit, and built new plants in right-to-work states and they would be #1 right now.

I think I will keep my old 1992 Subrue with way over 120.00 miles it runs good, do not need no new GM, or chryster.

Government Motors=Death Spiral->>>>>>>>>

LET THEM GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!! We don’t need cars anymore. I catch the bus. Let’s go back to wonderful horses or something.

Omigosh! The government is going to take over the automakers and hand-pick it’s board and CEO! This is socialism alright!

Obama is stating the obvious. The American public has know this for a long time. The automakers should never have received the bail out. Producing cars for which there is a limited demand is not capitalism. It is time to reconfigure America based on the current demands and not on what was relevant 30 years ago.

Another Obama show. Last week he was “outraged” at AIG for the bonus, but behind closed doors he appointed Martin Feldstein to The Task Force On Tax Reform. Mr. Feldstein is on the Board of Directors at AIG. Is he going to appoint Mr. Wagoner to a White House position too?
Obama is a joke.!!

For all of the people who are saying President Obama is no businessman, are any of you actually involved in the decision making process within the White House? Do any of you actually know who is tapped for their experience and knowledge in these types of situations? I think not…
Best thing for you all to do is take a step back and get your heads out of your own asses for one second. President Obama in no way has ever claimed to be a businessman, and it’s pretty obvious that he has individuals he taps for their knowledge in this situation. Idiots…

I know many foreign auto makers now provide jobs here in America but as deep throat said follow the money, when it’s all said and done where do the final profits go? A bank in Japan or Germany or whatever, not the USA. Also I have a hard time believing foreign vehicles are superior. I’ve owned Dodge, Ford, and currently drive a Pontiac Vibe and have never had to do more then routine maintanence. perhaps I was just lucky but I don’t think so. And I’ve driven these vehicles well over 100,000 miles before trading them. So to me foreign vehicles being better is a myth.

I have been shopping for a new car. We are wanting to buy American products but they are just not competative in gas milage, dependability, price and options. I felt GM models were quit a bit more pricy comparibly. I don’t get it why doesn’t GM try lowering their price,..when products don’t sell isn’t that what producers are supposed to do. We seriously shopped for American and the dealer was not interested in leasing options and he ridiculed us about wanting good milage by saying its only a couple of MPG difference. We also wanted special options and was discouraged by their disinterest which was probably inability to provide them. I think American auto makers have just thought we would always buy from them by playing the patriotic card, even if they failed to keep up with the world market, its a globel economy and they have had their arrogant heads in the sand. If you snooze you loose and they woke up too late. In these hard economic times the average American needs to fend for themselves and get the best bang for their buck . We have been leasing a Honda for the last 3 years and decided to purchase at lease end with our 401K, before it totaly went into the crapper.

This is both right and wrong at the same time.
While companies, even giant companies, can and do typically emerge from a chapter 11 filing leaner, stronger and a much more efficient company than when they entered. And the fact that from a elementary level, the executive management @ most of these large/huge corporations have been collectively tone deaf for years with respect management 101, and watched there competition move light years ahead of them in just about every area of there business.
Additionally, these businesses, at this level, (just barely below that of AIG in scope) and there intrinsic connectivity throughout there own segment(s) as well as touching many other business segments can and do have the ability to act/effect many others like domino’s, both upward, positively, as well as downwardly, can drive (take down) many other “good standing” businesses with them.
The checks and balances of our free market system have been perverted by these same individuals to distract/reflect/redirect any accountability at all………and here we are! Adding there relative size/scope of influence within there respective peer group and the potential systemic harm they could cause to many ancillary business segments collectively, it is prudent not to restructure as typically would scrub the balance sheets into a viable competing business.
So, to have a restructuring at these companies executive levels is absolutely necessary/required, and while we are at it, get to the root, common denominator, the boards & “compensation committees” that have laid the foundation for this entitlement these “executive managers” have stood on to rape there very companies as well as the rest of us.
That said, the government is inherently a very poor judge of how to manage anything in the free market environment. So we all need to make sure/demand that if and when these extraordinary steps are taken to correct the ships course’s that any stipulated insertion is short lived (one qtr or less) and singular in scope.
Take a step back for a minute.
Obama is nothing if not calculating, and he has surrounded himself with some of the brightest people in and out of DC.
He also knows that he take a much larger risk loosing more than gaining and a roughly 50/50 chance of this move producing positive results, but he does it anyway. Why? Because he knows that it is what is needed, both to accelerate bringing about the type of change that is desperately needed in this specific case but also sending several messages to the rest of the business community.

Will Obama now fire the head of the UAW too, now that he’s fired the CEO of GM?

GM: USA
CHRYSLER: USA
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME….
NATIONALIZE THE AUTO MAKERS…
MAKE THE FUEL EFFICIENT CARS TO LEAD THE NATION AND THE WORLD ONCE MORE…
INNOVATIONS IN CARS STARTS HERE, NOT OVERSEAS.

The shock troops are out in force in this thread!

Even you libs have to be frightened by the sight of our President firing the head of a private company, no? Yes, we gave them money, and yes, we deserve some say in things, but this goes too far! Bad idea, and it will be tough to get off this slippery slope we just went down ….

What does Granholm have to say about this?

Obama is so crafty, as always. Asking for this CEO’s, will certainly steer the American focus away from the incompetent WH administration! How lucky is Obama? He doesn’t give a hoot about our auto industry, he just enjoys doing this, as I said, to take the unfavorable American impression of his horrible White House picks and HIS lackluster performance. Even President Bush would have handled this auto CEO better and with compassion.

And where are the cuts and sacrifices for the Union workers in the Obama plan?

When the Big 3 carries an $11/hr retiree load and others producing cars in this country only carry $4/hr, the playing field isn’t level. The $7/hr difference is too great an obstacle to overcome. Obama could, with a single stroke of his pen, create a pool for all NA direct retirees to be supported equally, based on unit sales.
Problem solved!

European leaders have already told Obama that he is leading Americans down the road to hell. They also told him they really don’t want his economic advice, period! And now American businesses are being controlled by him??? I have little confidence in his ability to direct anything. Wake up America!!!

1) Only business can run business!
2) Government is evil!
3) Governement can’t even run wars!
4) Only business can run wars!
5) Let the businessmen run the wars!

European leaders have already told Obama that he is leading Americans down the road to hell”
One European leader said that, Mirek Topolanek.
And he said it 1 day after his center right coalition government was dissolved via a no confidence vote.

OMG, we have an idiot for a leader. Seriously, this guy is even dumber than Carter…………..he must go.

Big business and highly paid executives had their chance at running this country. Their greed and complete lack of regard for the well-being of this country were their doom. Is Obama over-stepping? Maybe a bit. However, for all those who mistrust gov’t involvement, I for one would prefer the gov’t looking out for my interests than any large corporation who could give two hoots about me.

Oh My god! Now I can see why only 5 people out of every 100 can actually support themselves after they retire. Don’t get the idea that most who make comments here are very educated, they are perhaps, just angry. I bet if many here would just take an English writing class or two, they might become more able to understand the world and also to better express themselves.
Anger and hate are elements of childhood and youth. I think that everyone here on this site who make comments might be older but, maybe not beyond this period (youth or childhood) in their lives.
If we look at ourselves, in truth, “please try and sere it” we may all find that your complaints are a tiny part of all of America and its problems. In other words, you caused it, I caused it and together, we caused it.
Any man who has the ability to go to the top in this country and attempt to fix anything, puts his life on the line without a flak jacket or weapon.
Anyone out there who hate that person should consider having to make all of these decisions that Obama, and before him, Bush have and had to make on a daily basis before they critize.

Great decision, Mr. President.

The president is again trying to prove that he can and should control every aspect of our fading free country. But he should lead by example and by the same communist standards. Do I see the president and all his security people courting around in a Prius or Civic? Doubt it. Do I see the president putting force where force should have been placed first? The wall street crooks. I doubt it. The president keeps pumping more and more money into a lost cause: people that overspent beyond their means and banks that took advantage of people who didn’t have enough common sense to check out what an ARM loan was before falling into the trap of “if it looks too good to be true, it probably is”. My wife and I have lost 50% of our retirement funds because of greedy pigs and I feel no remorse for any CEO that gets canned or for any auto maker that puts out sub-standard vehicles or any homeowner who spent beyond their means. Let’s get back to American standards of hard work, high morals and character that doesn’t and shouldn’t have to be questioned. That includes all of our employees in Washington D.C. that we pay for with our tax dollars on a daily basis. To this point the president has been all talk and all spend. The day that the stock market rises and keeps rising is the day that confidence will be instilled in America. How can a president expect me to go out and stimulate the economy when half my life savings are gone and he has just put another trillion or two out the door for our kids to inherit and who are going to have to survive this mess. Let the auto companies fail, let the big banks fail (the bank in our small town is blossoming), and let the people fail that spent beyond their means. Then and only then will be get back on our feet. We don’t need a 3 trillion dollar welfare system on top of what we already have.

Quote from Don Webb:
=================
Since when can the US government oppress a private company to fire its CEO?
Obama = The ruin of the United States.
=================
Answer: Since these private[sic...these are public companies, whose falling stock are bankrupting pension plans], are asking for billions upon billions of $ from the government.
Obama = The salvation of the United States from failed Reagonomics.

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Joannah