Speaking of Democracy in Afghanistan…
Regarding our post earlier today about President Obama de-emphasizing democracy in Afghanistan, our friend Olivier Knox of AFP brings to our attention the following exchange from Thursday.
The scene: the Senate Foreign Relations Committee confirmation hearing of Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry to be U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan. Eikenberry has already served two military tours in Afghanistan, most recently as U.S. commander there from 2005 to 2007.
Towards the end of the hearing, Eikenberry tells Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa., that what "will be essential is that we over time help the Afghans to create the conditions so that international terrorism will never regain a refuge there. We can see what the outlines of that program look like. It’s developing Afghan national security forces that increasingly can secure their own people. It’s developing a system of government, in Afghanistan, and a rule of law, so that those security forces sit on top of a foundation of good governance, and then beyond that developing an economy of Afghanistan, so the Afghans can sustain themselves over a period of time, all of that then nested within the regional approach between Afghanistan, Pakistan and beyond."
This mention of "developing a system of government in Afghanistan" concerned the committee chair, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.
"General, we’re almost wrapped up here," Kerry said, "but I do want to probe a little bit a couple of areas that concern me, and particularly one based on the answer that you gave to Sen. Casey’s question. Sen. Casey asked you sort of about the general mission, etc., and keeping the support of folks. And you started to run down a list of things that we need to do, and I think I heard you say developing a system of government, developing an economy, etc.
"I began to get worried when hear you saying all that," Kerry said. "That’s not what I certainly defined — I mean, there’s some component of that, but that’s, in my judgment, not our mission. And I want to hear, with clarity, what you’re saying the mission is or what you understand it to be as we come out of this review, because there are just going to be some limits, I think, speaking realistically; I think you have a sense of that."
Kerry said: "Yes, we have to help them develop a system," but "that’s sort of what President Bush described, and that’s not what I view as the current definition of the mission as we’re thinking about it, but to help them to help themselves. It’s not up to us to develop a system of government. We have to help them to develop their economy, and it’s up to the Europeans and a lot of people to be part of that. So I’d like to hear you sort of reiterate with a clarity sort of how we’re approaching this mission."
It may be — this is pure hypothesis — that Eikenberry, who was commander in Afghanistan during the Bush years, had accidentally fallen back on some of the language from the Bush era; that president spoke of a "flourishing democracy" in Afghanistan as a key part of the mission.
Either way, the good general quickly corrected himself.
"Success is, in Afghanistan, inside of Pakistan, that we have defeated al Qaeda and international terrorism which threatens our country; and then in order to achieve that, creating the conditions in Afghanistan so that we don’t have the environment which pervaded in the 1990s which allowed al Qaeda, international terrorism to have open sanctuary, to have an open safe haven inside of Afghanistan," the general said.
"Your characterization is the correct one," Eikenberry said. "If I was characterizing it as ‘we will develop,’ as opposed to ‘we will assist the Afghans develop,’ then I would like to stand corrected, because this is about enabling the Afghans to develop governments and rule of law, enabling the Afghans to develop their own security forces, enabling the Afghans to develop a sustainable economy. Those are the three critical components. When they come together, success would be defined then as an Afghan state strong enough to not become an open safe haven for international terrorism."
Kerry said: "The mission is to keep al Qaeda from coming back. It may take the Afghans a little longer to develop their government. But they haven’t proven, in the last six years, a particular disposition to want to do that, frankly. And that’s one of the reasons why the Taliban have been able to move back in, because of the absence of governance. … We want the government to succeed. But I think our strategy, as I think it is, is beginning to focus on how we empower people locally and provincially and otherwise and play to some of the tribal realities historically that would re-empower people locally, to be able to take control of their lives and reject the Taliban."
- jpt
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I won’t worry about this… Kerry is just a lying loser that blames everything on America..and embellishes himself
Posted by: Obama and his party of clowns | March 28, 2009, 9:15 pm 9:15 pm
Thank goodness we finally have an administration that can use their brains. We were attacked in 2001 and here it’s 2009 and the Repubs didn’t do anything to fix the problem. But KBR and Haliburton made a ton. I feel so bad for our gallant men and women in uniform. They have had to carry the load while the CEOs and bankers under the repubs were stealing us blind.
Posted by: Chief P | March 28, 2009, 10:07 pm 10:07 pm
party of clown: That’s right, no need to worry – the ADULTS are in charge now.
Posted by: R Mutt | March 28, 2009, 10:27 pm 10:27 pm
Clowns -
Tell us specifically how you disagree with what Sen John Kerry said in the above article because you embarrass yourself with your sophomoric comments.
Posted by: JV | March 28, 2009, 10:34 pm 10:34 pm
These people talk as if we weren’t the ones who brought terrorism to Afghanistan in the first place. Watch Rambo III and you see right there the rise of the Taliban and how we encouraged it. Funny they don’t show that movie much anymore since sept. 2001
Posted by: Flash Override | March 28, 2009, 10:52 pm 10:52 pm
I agree with the assessment that Al queda first moved into Afgan years ago BECAUSE their was no strong goverment in charge to stop them.. The Taliban (local radical islamic militants) were able to use terror to rule.
Success in Afgan WILL involve the establishment of SOME sort of government that has the ability/strength to thwart a Taliban re-emergence.
The “form” of government will certaintly be different that what emerged in Iraq because of the differences in history, resources,and educational level of the population.
Posted by: Neville | March 28, 2009, 10:53 pm 10:53 pm
Well, gee, Flash, there have been movies since Rambo..uhh, did you see Charlie Wilson’s War?
Yeah, we did what we did. And we’d do it again. Russia went down in Charlie Wilson’s movie – didn’t it happen too in Rambo too, except to tell the truth Sly didn’t do it by his lonesome.
Posted by: robert b | March 28, 2009, 11:06 pm 11:06 pm
I heard rumblings that Biden was in conflict with Obama on the Afganistan policy.
Do you think Biden wanted to divide Afganistan up into three seperate parts?
Posted by: Neville | March 28, 2009, 11:35 pm 11:35 pm
Every statement in this sounds exactly like the plan set forth by Bush/Cheney/Patraeus for Iraq. Only, this is Afghanistan, and this is somehow *different*. The same goals set for Afghan are those set for Iraq, thus, we have the new Iraq. How is Obama/Kerry’s plan different? I am serious. I am no foreign policy expert, but, I know words and platforms that sound exactly the same, are ironically, exactly the same.
Posted by: sybilll | March 29, 2009, 1:03 am 1:03 am
Indeed the “strategy” (overall goal) in Afganistan appears very similar to that of Iraq.
However, there are historic, educational, and cultural differences between Iraq and Afganistan and certainly that will cause for different “tactics” to be employed.
With great men and minds like General Petraus involved in the decision making, I am optimistic about the outcome.
I pray that our Commander in Training listens to the advice of our Military leaders, and pray that Obama and the liberal democrats in charge of Congress will not treat him like they did when he proposed the “surge” in Iraq that proved to be so successful
Posted by: Neville | March 29, 2009, 1:30 am 1:30 am
Has anyone told Obama that the Taliban has no moderates?
Posted by: drjohn | March 29, 2009, 3:36 am 3:36 am
Only, this is Afghanistan, and this is somehow *different*. The same goals set for Afghan are those set for Iraq, thus, we have the new Iraq. How is Obama/Kerry’s plan different.
****************************************
They are going to do it for starters. Cheney/Bush didn’t. Came in with less then what they needed, then when skipping off to Iraq on a wonderful unnecessary adventure.
Posted by: Thinking | March 29, 2009, 6:30 am 6:30 am
I think what Obama is doing by putting more forces on the ground is to escalate the war initially and put pressure on the insurgents and then bribe people away from Taliban. This is classic stick and carrot policy and how much it will succeed; only time will tell.
Another very important aspect is the increase in Afghan national army from 80000 to 134000. I believe that this is most important aspect of his speech as a strong central force will definitely have some impact on the overall situation. If the situation in Afghanistan stabilise to the extent that local army takes charge of the situation (even if the Taliban are not totally defeated) and foreign forces leave than situation in Pakistan will cool down as well.
Posted by: sikander Hayat | March 29, 2009, 7:45 am 7:45 am
I read Kerry’s intent was to distance himself from Bush’s empire building, yet he wants a government that will not tolerate al Qaeda to regain a foothold in Afghanistan. Since a democracy or America-friendly government are optional, is he willing to throw his support for a local Shiite Muslim strongman/ dictator? A fascist state aligned with Shiite Iran might be the only kind of government that can prevent Afghanistan from becoming a complete narco-state and friend of Sunni al Qaeda. If this happens, it will be like we toppled one dictator in one war and set up another in a different war.
Posted by: T961585 | March 29, 2009, 8:18 am 8:18 am
Why in hell would Obama mention Democracy in Afghanistan being he’s a Socialist?
Last year President Bush announced 12,000 to 15,000 additional troops to Afghanistan for 2009 which was criticized by almost all the Democrats but now Obama announces additional troops and he’s praised up and down.
I guess by putting down some more words like “Diplomatic Surge” makes Obama better than Bush?
Obama during his campaign said he would go after Al-Qaeda even in Pakistan so how many troops does he plan on sending there?
There’s Taliban in Afghanistan, always has been and always will be, but the only way Al-Qaeda is there is from crossing from Pakistan to Afghanistan so the only way for Obama to succeed as in ridding Al-Qaeda is to place combat troops in Pakistan.
BTW, President Bush never said he would destroy all the Taliban, he said that he would drive them from power, which he did.
Posted by: t hill | March 29, 2009, 8:52 am 8:52 am
Like “Rambo III”, “Charlie Wilson’s War” is a work of fiction. In it, they re-wrote history by sending all their support to Massoud, despite the fact that Wilson in real time, called Massoud a ‘russian collaborator’, and the fact that he only received 1% of the $3.5 billion in aid sent. Most of the aid went to Hekmatyar, who helped set up the terrorist training camps.
After 9/11, Wilson went on FOX and said “this is as much my fault as anyones”.
Since “Charlie Wilson’s War” was made after 9/11, all of that history had to be edited out, in the typical hollywood revisionism.
“And we’d do it again”?
Who is this “we” you are speaking of? “We” in fact warned at the time that this policy would have catastrophic blowback, and ‘we” were correct.
Posted by: Flash Override | March 29, 2009, 9:07 am 9:07 am
Some primitive cultures won’t take easily to democracy…the poppy traders will also be a problem..I’ve never really been against the two wars..but maybe it’s time to become more isolationist.
I don’t want to see any U.S. soldiers or citizens subjected to death and torture.
Also, where will the ‘coalition’ forces be? At home?
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | March 29, 2009, 9:13 am 9:13 am
“Some primitive cultures won’t take easily to democracy”
When you have private institutions that are “too big to fail”, you don’t have democracy.
When your banks can hold a gun to your head and demand whatever they want, you don’t have democracy.
Posted by: Flash Override | March 29, 2009, 9:22 am 9:22 am
Except for Kerry’s Taliban-ish machinations among the Democrats, the country wouldn’t be saddled with a president with no more imagination than to make a Bush general ambassador to Afghanistan. Military diplomacy sucks.
Posted by: Pants on Fire | March 29, 2009, 9:29 am 9:29 am
Send Rahmbo to Afghanistan wearing his tutu–that will totally confuse and intimidate the Taliban.
Rahm thinks he’s such a tough guy let’s see how tough he is in Afghanistan.
Posted by: sammy | March 29, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am
Do ya ever get the feeling that the US will Never get out of the Middle East?
Posted by: from Ohio | March 29, 2009, 9:50 pm 9:50 pm