Still Selling the Stimulus

Obama Daily Tracking Poll
Still falling…..

“While it’s a good day for Vandop, Mair and the rest of their class, the stimulus money will only cover their salaries through the end of the year.”
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Columbus can raise taxes and fees to cover their salaries.
The public funded sector is growing.

mad:”The public funded sector is growing.”
Actually, it is not shrinking. Tax revenues drop right along with the reduction in economic activity that is the recession. And as police and fire departments lay people off, economic activity is depressed further making the issue worse.
Now that we are in a recession, do you think fewer police and firemen is suddenly a good idea? Loosing a few years of new recruits has proven to be pretty disruptive to institutions like this – having slugs of experience retire simultaneously and having ‘generation gaps’ in the workforce are thing private companies avoid due to their corrosive effects (note that many big companies laying people off are still hiring a few to keep their longterm health in mind).

bawl knee phwank:”ok now seriously..HOW STUPID IS O_DUMB_AH? these guys were already in training before the stimulus bill lmao, so they need to thank GB?”
Speaking of how dumb, you did notice they were fired? Had no job until the stimulus money came through? That the town was forced to make due with an understaffed police force (now if this were Chicago, that may be good, but most police forces are actually useful)?
“There was plenty of doubt back in January, when Columbus’ budget fell $13 million short and Mayor Michael Coleman was forced to fire the recruits.”
Is that what they need to thank Bush for?
It is odd to see Republicans stepping up to advocated the gutting the nation’s police forces. Not the reduction in expansion – but the active attrition. Add “law and order” to the list of fake conservative priorities.

jhw, stimulating the private sector creates jobs that keep the taxes rolling in to pay for these recruits for more than just a year.

MayBee …. Meeeechelle sent them each a model of Air Force One similar to the ones she sent home with the Browns for their little boys ….. ROFLMAO

slugs of experience retire simultaneously and having ‘generation gaps’ in the workforce are thing private companies avoid due to their corrosive effects (
=========
“slugs of experience” seems a pretty derogatory term for experienced police officers :-)
Private companies avoid this problem in large part by not promoting a “20 and out” or “30 and out” retirement policy (via generous pensions).
I’m sure some companies continue to hire during layoffs, but many companies have hiring freezes, which does the exact opposite of what you are saying. Private companies often have more flexible hiring practices, such as the ability to hire in Sr. positions rather than being forced to promote first from within.

Omentum, he may have won but we’re all losing because of him.

The only thing Obama is good for is providing lip service! Flying all over the country in Air Force One! Using our tax dollars. He does not hear the American people. All he is doing is trying to fulfill his socialist agenda!

jhw, “It is odd to see Republicans stepping up to advocated the gutting the nation’s police forces. Not the reduction in expansion – but the active attrition. Add “law and order” to the list of fake conservative priorities.”
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strawman alert

President Obama may have saved 25 jobs, but he has hundreds of thousands more to go.
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I do believe that the President did point that out. He also pointed out that there was more money avaiable for thousands of cities, ans communities across the nation for such programs. that ad up to tens of thousands of jobs, not 25.
It also points out how wrong the GOP is as the GOP has yet to create a single job, and by doing nothing is contributing to the job losses.

We will need all the police he can hire when there is anarchy in the streets because of his economy. He better hire a million more.

Companies are cutting jobs by the tens of thousands. State and local governments are penny-pinching, too. So what about Uncle Sam? Tough times for him as well?
Not exactly.
In fact the number of federal workers is on the rise.
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That is from the associated P on Feb, 2

Is anyone else struck by the fact that the president has to spend approximately half a million dollars to tout spending $13 million? There are two airforce 1′s (one’s a decoy) that cost about $250,000 each a flight.
At least that is a little better than flying to Chicago for a date.
And that doesn’t factor in the cost of the Secret Service, local police forces, etc.
Where’s the fiscal responsibility?

The economy will turn around eventually during the summer and next year. People fail to realize that folks will be getting income tax refunds, and thousands will be retiring from civil service jobs soon. Those jobs will be plentiful and tax refunds will be spent on goods and services.
As roads, bridges, and energy efficient jobs are created, new communities will be built, therefore thousands of jobs will be need to build these homes, new stores, and services will needed to extend to these areas. Also, there will be thousands of manufacturing jobs because these homes will need to built, schools and so forth will also need to be built, personnel will need to hired.
People will start investing again. With further regard to energy, making government buildings more efficient will create hundreds of manufacturaing jobs as the materials will come from varous companies and will have to be maintained in stock for years as this material starts wearing thin. Employees will be need to place this stuff in thousands of buildings. In regards to transportation, thousands of jobs will be created as new communities and employers will relocate to areas due to more accessiability.
With regard to unemployment extension, folks who are unemployed will need goods and services as they are looking for jobs, what if a significant portion of these folks obtain a job. Then, these will further need a means to travel, that means cars, money back to the local economy, that means more tax revenue for the states which less taxes out of your pockets.
In the area of healthcare, creating electronic medical records is necessary is long overdue. What does this mean for the economy it means newly created technology jobs, that means manufacturing jobs to build high speed scanners, servers, it also, personnel will be needed to input millions of records into databases, personnel for securing this data, personnel for monitoring and maintaing this data. Also, jobs will be created in state and local governments to ensure compliance with state and federal statutes regarding HIPPA and others which means jobs will be needed to ensure medical professionals are in compliance.
This plan will work, not at warp speed, but it will be incredible to see how effective this plan will be and definitely be the demise the GOP.

Why were the recruits hired in the first place, if it was known there were no funds to pay them.?

My husband was laid off 1 week before Christmas and is now in the process of becoming a cop.. Relize I say “Process”.. The Process, just to get into the Police Acadamy here in Ga takes too damn long.. He started the application process in early January. We still do not know if he’s been accepted yet or not.. We do know that the next Acadamy will start sometime in April, but all the background check, employement checks and so on.. Maybe, when it comes to the police dept., he (Nobama) can speed the process up, haha.. Really don’t know why they get that involved when hiring someone for the police dept. The Columbus Police Dept, here in Georgia, just fired & locked up one of there own b/c 2 months before she was hired, she was involved in an armed bank robbery.. How a bout them apples..

mad:”Columbus can raise taxes and fees to cover their salaries.
The public funded sector is growing.”
What is your definition of growing? The recruits were on the payroll, trained up and then fired. Meanwhile, since August 2 dozen officers have left the force. How EXACTLY are you defining bringing these recruits back onto the payroll as “growing”? They barely replace the 2 dozen officers lost in just the last half year and (police unions being what they are) they are surely cheaper than the officers they replace.
Please explain how your comment is based in reality and not merely rhetoric.

“Maybe, when it comes to the police dept., he (Nobama) can speed the process up, haha.. ”
The fastest way is to call Mrs. Obama and praise her on her wardrobe selection.. She will send an aide over to help expedite matters for you.

Is anyone else struck by the fact that the president has to spend approximately half a million dollars to tout spending $13 million? There are two airforce 1′s (one’s a decoy) that cost about $250,000 each a flight.
At least that is a little better than flying to Chicago for a date.
And that doesn’t factor in the cost of the Secret Service, local police forces, etc.
Where’s the fiscal responsibility?
Posted by: n22s | Mar 6, 2009 2:18:58 PM
To N22s
You are a classic example of a person who doesnt know history nor how the executive branch operates.
This process has been going on since the first Airforce One was built.
I bet you didnt know that every living President has permanent Secret Service protection including yours truly Bush.
You know those 25 400 million helicopters, well that was your ex presidents project.
You know your ex-president inititated 750 billion bailout and 78 billion cannot be accounted for.
You know that your ex-president took billions of tax payer money to give all of us 300 to 2500 check that didnt work
You know your President has us in two wars and one that is costing us billions a month and have lost over 4500 american lives.
You didnt know that, but you complaining about a process that has been place for decades.
LOL!

Sigmonde:
“This is the reason for spending on infrastructure. Construction will require steel.’
Then why is the steel mill laying off 900 workers?”
Why is the steel mill only laying off 900 workers rather than closing down entirely?
Do you even see the glaring logical fallacies implied in your pointless question?
Statement: Laws against arson need to be enforced.
Pointless reply: Well, why hasn’t my home been burnt down then, huh?

n22s:”However, when funding for these positions end in a year, who is picking up the tab? Yes, the streets are safer for a year but why can’t Obama fund it for a longer period of time?”
The hope is that the economy will be improved in a year (it doesn’t have to be back to growing, just stabalized) and city tax revenues will be back up as a result.
A recession, even a bad one, is temporary so it is prudent to address it with temporary measures. Even President Bush accepted this when he put in the clause to have his tax cuts expire if the $5.6 trillion surplus he used to support them failed to materialize (check out his Feb 22 2001 press conference).

National Debt = Job Growth/Security

n22s:”I was under the impression that giving money back to the taxpayers didn’t work?
According to President Obama and Tax Cheat Timmy those were the policies of the past.”
What are you talking about? Tax cuts were a major part of the stimulus bill from day one and only grew as Republicans worked over the bill. Of course, he is mocked for his $8-$13 a week tax cut even though it is a true tax cut (a reduction in taxes taken, not a check sent out) and totals over $100 billion of the stimulus. Sounds like you have a gravely mistaken impression.

Obama has spent more in 2 months than Bush did in 8 years! He is going to bankrupt the country.
Posted by: Discreettool | Mar 6, 2009 2:26:23 PM
To: Discreettool
Can you explain how can he bankrupt the country?
You know there is a checks and balance system in this country? You know what that means.
You know that more Republicans have more pork barrel projects than Dems in the ominibus bill.
The US will never go bankrupt as long as we’are able to print money and have a checks and balance system. Yet, the Bush administration forgot about that as we are still stuck in a ditch.
Note: December 2007 recession began. Your ex president Bush had 12 months to fix this problem. He did nothing. Your candidate said publicly that economy is “strong” remember” He said a number times……… Had we elected him, he would had done nothing.

Obama must think we are stupid. If he can create 4 million jobs (and he can’t)why not create 8 million jobs? He has no substance and no experience. But I am sure that he is laughing himself to sleep every night in the White House. In 4 years Americans better give him the boot.

I don’t know about you, but this just makes my confidence soar!

“Those two trips alone cost the taxpayer a million dollars. He could have saved 10, $100,000 homes if he had just stayed home.”
Saved them how? Using taxpayer dollars to pay off the mortgage?

Obama is a joke. 25 jobs……….big deal and he is so proud of himself. Jerk. He needs to understand what is really going on in this country and what people are really losing. I can’t wait unitl the movie stars and athletes start losing their jobs. Then it will be a real crisis….. Obama goes to bed each night feeling save and secure. He does not worry about bills or food. Neither does the rest of the guys in Washington. They are so out of it. Well I have nothing left so when it all goes down the tube I will survive. Not sure the rich people will but I know I will.

Sigmonde:”If, as you stated, infrastructure programs of Obama will need steel, wouldn’t steel companies be hiring, rather than firing? Try again.”
Seriously – you are saying the infrastructure programs included in the stimulus bill WON’T need steel? What are they building bridges out of in your world? Anyone reading this know how they are building bridges without steel, or even repaving the decks without rebar? As an engineer I want to know this magical new material.
There is a $3-4 trillion dollar reduction in spending forecast. The stimulus is less than $0.8 trillion, and almost half of it is tax cuts not infrastructure. The stimulus was never intended to replace ALL private spending, merely keep the economy breathing long enough for the private sector to realign labor to demand and get moving again.

What are you talking about? Tax cuts were a major part of the stimulus bill from day one and only grew as Republicans worked over the bill. Of course, he is mocked for his $8-$13 a week tax cut even though it is a true tax cut (a reduction in taxes taken, not a check sent out) and totals over $100 billion of the stimulus. Sounds like you have a gravely mistaken impression.
Posted by: jhw539 | Mar 6, 2009 2:34:21 PM
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You bet he was mocked. You are right that there were also 100 billion dollars in welfare disguised as tax cuts.
He was mocked because many of these tax cuts were counterproductive, not stimulative at all.
Welfare payments are not stimulating the overall economy. They should not have been in the bill.
100 billion may be peanuts to some but how many taxpayers for how many years had to pay for this for just one year. Don’t forget these are not one time payments. They are a renewal and expansion of the welfare system that was reformed under Bill Clinton.

Obama is a joke. 25 jobs.
These are replacement jobs for 25 who quit or were fired. These are not new jobs, apparently.

Sorry to disagree, nubiangent08, but economic recovery will not come from subsistence spending by the employed and unemployed, which is the current mode. An economic turnaround requires consumer confidence, and consumer confidence in turn requires job security. The last I checked most people were worried about losing their jobs and the unemployment numbers continue to climb. I don’t doubt that the economy will recover in time because of its inherent resilience but what Washington in doing now will play no part in that.

nubiangent08 Apparently bo didn’t either, I heard one of his sound bites commenting on when someone questioned him on stimulus and spending policy….he said they were the same thing. The dictionary says stimulus is an incentive, any action or agent that causes an activity. Spending…is to use up, exhaust. Those are two very different definitions. He has done more in a a short amount of time for people to lose confidence (albeit misplaced) in him and his adgenda. I for one saw him for what he was…a bad choice.

jhw “please explain how your comment is based in reality and not merely rhetoric.”
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You posted:
“It is odd to see Republicans stepping up to advocated the gutting the nation’s police forces. Not the reduction in expansion – but the active attrition. Add “law and order” to the list of fake conservative priorities.”
1. Even if you assumed I was a Republican, I am “a” republican, not plural.
2 I said Columbus could raise taxes and fees to keep the recruits employed. That is an offered solution, not rhetoric.
3. In a separate paragraph I pointed out that the public sector is growing, a fact supported by an AP article from Feb. 2.
4. I made no assumptions or used rhetoric. Both of those things occured in your post.

BO Needs to Go: “You bet he was mocked. You are right that there were also 100 billion dollars in welfare disguised as tax cuts. ”
Could you specify what $100 billion in tax cuts is actually welfare? There are certainly welfare aspects in the bill, but you seem to be suggesting the payroll tax reduction is actually welfare. Just want to get you on record as to what exactly you are claiming.
“Don’t forget these are not one time payments. They are a renewal and expansion of the welfare system that was reformed under Bill Clinton.”
Citation please. And what are you referring to as “these” – there is a $100 billion permanent expansion of the welfare program in the stimulus bill? You gotta give me a page number for that or some sort of rationale for that fantasy.

I stand corrected, and agree with you
Obama has done very little to boost confidence. I blame him for hiring Geither who I beleive has no balls and incapable of managing anything.
That sickens me.

CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul
That is the title of the article from the Washington Times, which you can search online.
It deals with and explains the analysis of the congressional budget office. The title speaks for itself. They were aware of this before they passed the fake stimulus bill.
This bill was not about stimulating anything but democrat security in congress, payback to buddies like unions and acorn (i am not going to argue about that one, I documented it before), and expanding social programs.
If stimulus was the point he gets a failing grade if this is the best he could do with multiple record spending.

Lets face it both mainstream political parties are incompetent and lack any ability to do whats right for us.

nubia wrote: “Wow! I actually agree with you. I totally disagree with helping pay who refuse to read the ink on the paper. No american should have to pay to keep others in their house b/c they made dumb decisions. Also, Tim Geither is incompetent.”
When it comes to hiring incompetents like Geithner, with whom does the buck stop?

“Seriously – you are saying the infrastructure programs included in the stimulus bill WON’T need steel?”
No, I am not saying that. I am addressing your comment that Obama was there because a steel company was laying off 900 employees that day and then you said infrastructure projects would require steel.
So, if steel is going to be needed, why would the steel company be laying off 900 people?
If you still don’t understand my question – then what was your point mentioning 900 steel workers being laid off?

jhw539 wrote: “It is reasonable to be skeptical of any future funding – no one knows the future. But this is by definition not a mandate, not unfunded, and certainly not an unfunded mandate.”
You are correct to be skeptical and am glad you agree with me. And you are correct that this is not an unfunded mandate. I should have said that this is analogous to an unfunded mandate in terms of limited funding. Just an opinion.

Billions of dollars and all we get is 25 jobs. Jobs that were probably just filled in again!

Wow! .0007% of the 3.5 million jobs promised!

“A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.”

Note: This recession started supposedly in 2007, so the fact that we are blaming a newly elected president is absurd.
~~~~
That recession is just about finished. What President Obama has foisted on us is entirely different and IMO intentional.

BO Needs to Go: “CBO: Obama stimulus harmful over long haul
It deals with and explains the analysis of the congressional budget office. The title speaks for itself.”
The actual report speaks far better than the dumbed down summary. And you can trust the CBO – they’re the ones who forecast out the $5.6 trillion surplus over 10 years that justified the Bush tax cuts (and Bush repeatedly pointed out that number was conservative). This recession is just imaginary and the national debt must be almost paid off – just ask the CBO circa 2001!

nubia wrote: “Lets face it both mainstream political parties are incompetent and lack any ability to do whats right for us.”
Then why, my friend, are you such a fan of Obama? He is just a politician with an agenda. Ask yourself, what has he really changed with regards to the process? LIKE ALL THE OTHERS he hires lobbyists, isn’t transparent (5 days to read a bill?) is rolled over by the scum in his party like Reid and Pelosi, constantly promotes himself, spends money like a drunken sailor, hires tax cheats and on and on and on.
And please don’t respond with the simplistic “duh, you liked Bush”. Some things I did, some things I didn’t. However, I am not blind to his failings.
Don’t you think it is a little dangerous when people become blind to the faults of their overlords or excuse them outright?
Ask yourself one simple question – if Bush pulled this stuff would I agree with it?
I asked myself that question when Bush was elected – when evaluating his policies ask yourself if you’d be okay with them if they were Clinton’s.
Quick example, if the Bush administration had suggested a way to track your whereabouts by means of a GPS chip in your car. Ostensibly for taxation but…
Would you have applauded it or protested against it?

“That is the title of the article from the Washington Times, which you can search online.”
Make sure your bird is able to read it as it lines his cage.

n22s…Posted….Quick example, if the Bush administration had suggested a way to track your whereabouts by means of a GPS chip in your car. Ostensibly for taxation but…
Would you have applauded it or protested against it?
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If Bush would have propsed that you know the libs would all be in an uproar. They would be there with all of there liberal buddies, ACORN the ACLU etc…….

0-bama supporter: Think about what you wrote: He FLEW, in a jet, from Washington to Columbus for 25 jobs. Is this some part of the stimulus package? Why, because it takes more than 25 people to get Air Force One off the ground.

Sigmonde:”jwh539…Here I’ll make it simple for you.
More need for steel = more employees to make steel.”
Yeeessss… That’s what you’ve been inexplicably arguing against. Well, for a while there I was expecting you to claim rebar was made from wood or something, but nice you’re coming around.
Remember that the comment you were actually arguing vehemently AGAINST was:
“”While he was in Columbus with 25 officers, a steel mill was announcing its close in Cleveland and 990 will be added to the unemployment rolls.”
This is the reason for spending on infrastructure. Construction will require steel.”
That’s it. “Construction will require steel.” That’s what you had a bitter problem with.

Let me tell all you anti-Obama people something. I have lost my job, lost 1/2 my savings, and close to losing my house BUT the last thing I am doing is relying on a President to make my life better. Myself and ONLY myself is repsonsible for my employment and paying my bills. I voted for Obama and have no regrets.

Obama, your “political tracking poll” is still falling… fallen 108 points today.
You liberals do know what Obama called the dow, don’t you. That’s right. A political tracking poll.
Whatever Obama is currently doing and talking about…STOP…it isn’t working. Can O’Clueless One figure that out in time?

Great 25 TEMP jobs… I’m sure that will spur massive economic growth……. BO is such an idiot…

25 jobs on the payroll of taxpayers
Yes WE Can!

n22s:”I’d tell you how but frankly, you won’t listen. ”
It would be more interesting than listening to you whine about the President daring to take Airforce One to leave the tower and do standard public appearances.

25 more votes for our Dear Leader, Comrade Oboma the head of The USSA.

For those that are looking for a job, contact your mayor and find out where your city’s stimulus $’s went.

Sigmonde:” Why is the steel company laying off 900 steel workers if the demand for steel is now greater because of all the “steel” oriented building that will be taking place.”
NO ONE EVER SAID THE DEMAND FOR STEEL IS NOW GREATER. No one even suggested that. The statement was the stimulus package increased the demand for steel. That’s it. You’re clinging so tightly to your strawmen you’re not listening to what people are saying. Again, the original comment:
“This is the reason for spending on infrastructure. Construction will require steel.”
THAT’S IT. That was what was really, truely said. Not what your imaginary strawman apparently whispered in your ear.

The comments on this thing run from insightful and thought provoking to just insane ridiculous ranting. Our president has only been in office 45 days and the recession started in December 2007, but our last president wouldn’t acknowledge that or was most likely unaware. So people please get a clue it’s going to take YEARS for us to get out of this hole. I’m losing my job at the end of May so I’m not sitting all high and mighty, but I’m not blaming the current administration either for years of bad policies. So all you whining idiots stop blaming the man who’s just started the job.

“This is the reason for spending on infrastructure. Construction will require steel.”
Then, why are steel companies stocks tanking? Why is there no demand for steel ?

I keep wondering how much infrastructure we really need? With manufacturing plants closing left and right…how many trucks will be on the road transporting goods? You better believe these will be “new” roads, bridges and what ever other poppycock things they find to build so fat cat senators and congress men can get their photo ops at ribbon cuttings for newly built infrastructre. We have plenty that can be repaired…but who has seen a ribbon cutting at the filling of a pothole???

This is exactly what happens when Conservatism is ignored. Bush, Bush, and Reagan liked to call themselves Republicans. They were nothing but dirty liberals who expanded government. Nasty Republicrats. The citizens of this country will not bend over any more! Revolution!

Oh….he meant BUY stocks…
I thought he meant BYE stocks….so I watched them go.

Addict42…Your name says it all! Obama is putting us in a deeper hole than what we already are! You cannot spend your way out of the hole! Again, more Obama lingo, always looking back! A good leader looks forward, not back! A good leader takes over problems, doesn’t use phrases such as inherits! Obama is not a good leader!

I have heard that Senator Reid is not going to build a maglev train to Disneyland from Las Vegas. Instead, he is going to build a 295 mile long steel bridge to Disneyland to help the steel plant in Ohio that, inexplicably, is laying off 900 steel workers because they are having trouble finding a bridge to build.

Someone needs to tell bo that a wise man when he finds himself in a hole, he quits digging. Someone take that boy’s shovel away!

n22s:
One bone to pick with your healthcare analysis: Don’t say the “taxpayer” will pay for something–it implies all Americans are somehow in it together. I prefer “the sliver of the population that pays taxes.”

For those of you who can’t understand why conservatives are so pessimistic.
We elected a man who can deliver a speech. A man whose resume includes graduation from Harvard Law, community organizer, professor for a few months, Illinois elected official and US Senator. And man, is he qualified.
Bobby Jindal, graduate of Brown in biology and public policy, accepted to Harvard and Yale law, Harvard med, Rhodes scholar, US Congressman, Governor and he isn’t qualified because he did not deliver a good speech.
My point isn’t that Jindal is better than Obama or vice-versa. My point is that we cannot think critically about our choices. Jindal has been ridiculed, called a token by Chris Matthews, etc.
And you wonder why I am pessimistic about what the electorate will exchange in liberty for security and free money?

“When will the whining about the situation Obama “inherited” stop? ”
Obama is the first president I know of that blames a predecessor for his problems. Evidence of his inability to accept criticism or take responsibility. This can be dangerous.

Sigmonde wrote: “Obama is the first president I know of that blames a predecessor for his problems. Evidence of his inability to accept criticism or take responsibility. This can be dangerous.”
Obama apologists answer this; was Clinton responsible for 9/11? After all the plan was hatched while he was still president.
Bush and the Democratically controlled Congress in 2006 and beyond were partially responsible. The Republicans who spent too much while they were in control of Congress were partially responsible.
However, the stimulus bill is his doing. The current budget bill, which he tries to pawn off to Bush, requires his signature, not Bush’s.
Those bills’ effects will be his responsibility, not Bush’s.

the majority of Americans (when face to face to unemployment or losing their home) will become champions of big government. Want proof, I gaurantee you will find many registered republicans in line waiting for unemployment benefits, for food stamps and all other handouts funded by big government.

Golly, where to begin? You go away from these boards for a day or so, having other things to do, and you miss so much lively discussion. I wish I had time to respond to lots of these posts– some I’d like to agree with, some I would take issue with. Since my time is limited this afternoon, I’ll stick to one response, to one of the newer faces (at least to me, apologies if I haven’t noticed you posting for years) around these parts– NubianGent08. I will put quotation marks around NG08′s statements and then follow with my responses.
“The markets arent down because of Obama’s policies which have not been enacted. The markets are down b/c people dont have jobs to invest, to spend, and create new businesses. The new ideas to invest and create wealth are off the table b/c banks wont lend money and employers are hiring.” Well, I would not give Obama a pass as being part of the problem, rather than the solution, here. He has had four months (since his election)to work with his team to develop a workable plan to pull the banks out of this ditch, and Geithner and company have still not come up with one. THe market hates uncertainty and they are wading in it these days. So, no, Obama’s actions as president are not SOLELY to blame for the stock slide. But they are not divorced from the stock market’s actions, either. They need to see that his policies going forward are going to contribute to job creation, investment opportunities, etc., and there is not a lot of evidence for that point so far. Maybe Kudlow has a point about a ‘war on capital.’
“Note: This recession started supposedly in 2007, so the fact that we are blaming a newly elected president is absurd.” Well, barely, anyway– the recession is pegged as officially having begun in December of 2007. Since recessions historically have lasted, on average, just less than 18 months, we should be headed for improvement soon, right? But I think the Obama administration’s actions will impede the recovery, causing the recession to last longer. I do not blame Obama for STARTING the recession, but I do blame him for taking actions and pushing policies that will, imho, prolong and worsen the recession, perhaps even kicking off a depression. That, sir, is not absurd.
“Sometimes, I think repubs are naive and incapable of understanding basic economics, and have no knowledge besides guns and religion.”
So, you do not actually know any Republicans? I will not pretend to speak for others, but I know that I am far from atypical of the Republicans I know, both in and out of public life. I am hardly naive, I understand basic economics just fine, and your statement about guns and religion is not only offensive but totally unrelated to my life experience. I am not a bitter-clinger type, thanks all the same, I am not associated with the NRA, I am not an evangelical, and your stereotypical assumption that, as a Republican, my interests can be reduced to guns and religion is ridiculous. I do not lump all Democrats in a group and label them “liberal abortion and gay rights fanatics.” Such a statement would not make sense, would not reflect reality, and would be an insult to those who have strong liberal views on either of those issues. Yet nubiangent08 thinks nothing of making an equally offensive statement about all Republicans. Some of us care about guns, most of us it seems are religious, but mostly we want a smaller, less intrusive government that will keep us safe and leave us free to pursue our dreams.

“Obama is the first president I know of that blames a predecessor for his problems”
George Bush
“In terms of the economy, look, I inherited a recession, I’m ending on a recession. In the meantime, there were 52 months of uninterrupted job growth.”
This morning the Bush administration hit back. In the New York Post, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Clinton’s allegations “flatly false” and said Bush was “at least as aggressive” as Clinton against al Qaeda.
Political Blame Game vs. Safety
The 9/11 Commission report described Bush’s efforts to pursue al Qaeda, but unlike Clinton, Bush made no military efforts until after Sept. 11, 2001. “Before 9/11, [President Bush] had not seen good options for special military operations against bin Laden,” it said.
Rice also claimed that Clinton did not leave them a comprehensive strategy to fight al Qaeda. That is contradicted by the 9/11 Commission report, which described Rice receiving a “comprehensive” paper in January 2001 called “Strategy for Eliminating the Threat from the Networks of al Qaeda.”

The markets are down because those who have money and can hire, etc., are taking a look at the budget, the policies, the nationalizaiotn of health care, the unbelievable sleight of hand Obama is preaching to pay (NOT!) for this, and realize A) Obama hasn’t a clue and B) if they do create jobs, and make money, Obama will take a huge chunk of it away.

Ryan C wrote:
“‘Obama is the first president I know of that blames a predecessor for his problems’
George Bush”
Are you saying Obama is doing the same as Bush? So much for change, then.
Or are your saying that Bush was correct, because Obama is always correct, in blaming his problems on his predecessor.
Your statement seems to indicate that either Obama is wrong for blaming Bush or that Bush was justified. You statement leaves no wriggle room. You can’t have it both ways.

Obama stays on the campaign trail because that is the only talent he possesses.

It is about image and not substance. Logos not actual wording.
Campaigning is easier than actually running the country. Rham Emanual, James Carville and the rest of the gang (including some in the media) are busy creating foes to run against (pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, ridicule the hell out of it and polarize it) rather than figuring out how to run the country. In fact it appears running the country into the ground is just another phase of this “change” through distraction.
Hold onto your hats folks because the Obama administration is not going to be happy until they destroy everyone’s retirement plans and pensions through crashing the stock market, until they destroy private business and industry and put everyone on the government dole and declare themselves czars for life. This is a friggin’ nightmare

Where is that guy who keeps tabs on the Obama tracking poll? I miss your posts. It’s +32 points at close.

Obama saves 25 jobs with his Trillions spent, but loses several hundred thousands of others and people pat him on the head? Dumb…

No clue
No class
No credibility
No integrity
When Obama asks a tax cheat to lecture others about dodging their taxes–that says it all.
And the scary thing is Obama doesn’t see a problem with that–and neither do his supporters.

This “gifted orator” can’t seem to
deliver the briefest of comments
without his trusty teleprompter.
Makes you wonder just how brilliant
the guy is.

“Want proof, I gaurantee you will find many registered republicans in line waiting for unemployment benefits, for food stamps and all other handouts funded by big government.”
That’s different.

Let’s see 25 jobs “saved” at a cost of 1 trillion dollars comes out to 40 billion for each job.Not bad cipherin’ for somebody who didn’t even go Harvard, huh.

He gonna have to work a hell of a lot faster than that. 25 jobs saved, another 1,500 lost. He must be using the same math that “Turbo Tax Tim” used.
I think we’re all catching on now. He moves from one SNAFU to another fast enough so that his moron supporters can’t keep up. So they just gaze at the 8 x 10 glossy photo of their leader and say ” Good Job Santa”

…what happens when you put a clown in charge is, you have a circus act!”
Obama IS the greatest President ever – for entertainment value.
You go Mr. President. Go away.

Obama’s death stimulus is proof that he will continue to ignore his economic advisors. I’m saddened but inclined to laugh at the fools who continue to support the destrution of our national wealth. It’s your future. The Obama media and loyalists really should read just a little about economics. Obama seems blinded by his ideological biases. Go to Amazon.com and search for books on inflation, macro-economics, etc. Go for the 4 or 5 star rated volumes. There are some great reviews there. It might be too late for this country, but if I can help one or two of you, then I’m very happy. Please.

Hmmmm! They are having a hard time selling the stimulus. It is not working.

What a lot of people don’t realize is that those 25 recruits are only going to be paid for one year. After that if there is no money still in the city’s budget (which is doubtful) they will be laid off again.
Obama’s out there trying to sell his fake welfare-heavy “stimulus” bill while not pointing out that those “jobs” created with stimulus money are gone after the projects are finished.
I wonder how many Obama thugs have really thought what would happen after the stimulus money is gone.

Paul Revere you have said it all. This President must not like being home with the kids and grandma. This is the worst start of any Presidency ever. Telling us how he’s fixed us up but most things he is fixing don’t start for two years. The man is a fool. Does he know that he hasn’t any staff for many of the Cabinet assistants positions. Mainly his friend and favorite basketball buddy over at the Treasury. He better stop going around the country and get back to the Oval Office and quit touting his stimulus bill. If he doesn’t know, even poor people have televisions and he can talk to millions of us all at one time. Get out of the dang plane and get to work. Why not take that limo and drive around the country for the next four years. It’s probably much cheaper drive around a country that has so much debt. Perhaps you could find a trailer for your helicopter so you can take that along.
How much gas does it cost to fly around so you don’t have to go home.

devilkev, I would agree that the internet does reveal the fools so many mortals be. But let’s just say, to be charitable, that you and I will probably not agree on which posters are the idiots and which are the wise.
In your rant about trickle-down economics and the evils of Reagan and Bush, are you truly trying to argue that the economy of America has been suffering serious damage since the Reagan years? Or would you claim that somehow, despite the fact that the wealthy were supposedly just bleeding the country dry, our economy ticked along well regardless? Because, except for two recessions of less than 2 years duration each, we have been in economically good times during the period in question, until the start of the latest recession in December 2007.
I am not wealthy, but I am one of those evil rich folks that the Obama administration (and you are quite right, it is a whole group of people, including administrators, media types, commentators, consultants…. who are pushing the economic ideas many oversimplify as Obamanomics) is demonizing and preparing to tax to oblivion. I can tell you that none of my family’s modest means has been parked offshore, none is being put aside to pounce on the misery of others at just the right moment. I can also tell you that none of our wealth was handed to us by Ronald Reagan, George Bush, or anyone else connected to the federal government in any way, shape, or form. We EARNED it. We worked our tails off. We started a small business, put everything on the line, worked ridiculous hours, plowed profits back into the company– and now, after several years of that, our hard work is being rewarded with financial security.
I do not see the Obama administration as having a clear vision of how small business work and what sort of sensible regulations and tax policies will allow us to thrive. I do not think that the lack of regulation alone was what got us into our current mess. And I am increasingly concerned that Obama administration actions and policies are making matters even worse, lengthening and deepening the recession in which we are mired.

“American,” Bush is not the source of all evil in the world. Get over it. He did not get us into this economic mess. Some of his actions contributed, yes. But he helped pull us OUT of the economic slump that followed 9/11. He tried to tighten regulation on Fannie and Freddie, but was thwarted by your buds in Congress like Barney Frank and Maxine Waters. He focused on the war on terror, well, because we were attacked on his watch and he committed his administration to making sure that did not happen again. And it did not.
And yes, I have “a plan” as you put it, one I would be happy to share with President Obama and which I would have shared with Bush, McCain, Clinton, or anyone else in the Oval Office at this critical time. Thing is, I suspect those other folks would not need my advice, because their efforts would probably be basically in line with my “plan,” which Obama’s are not.
Here’s a plan for you: Keep the tax rates currently in place. Do not allow the Bush cuts to expire for ANYONE. Cut capital gains. Focus on the housing and financial disasters, and set aside any expensive new programs until the situation stabilizes– that means do not tinker with health care or anything else AT THIS TIME. Freeze government spending at current levels. Eliminate all earmarks– if a program is appropriate for federal funding, it should undergo review, not just get plopped down without scrutiny in an omnibus spending bill. Set up a ‘bad bank’ to take over the toxic assets for the banks. Abolish mark-to-market. Focus on the housing crisis, and provide government incentives for financially sound homebuyers (who can afford the mortgage payments to which they agree), especially those who will buy foreclosed homes. Freeze foreclosures for a set period (a short period, like 60 or 90 days), develop a government refinancing program, and get busy refinancing.
Finally, do NOT talk in apocalyptic terms. Don’t use scare tactics to ram your programs through without time for folks to examine what they are voting to pass. Use the bully pulpit to encourage people and to lead them with confidence, not to demoralize them.
So, is that enough? Because I could go on. *G*

This is so scary. Our government is so out of touch with the American people. They don’t have a clue. This stimulus does nothing for small business that continue daily to close their doors causing people to lose jobs. This stimulus hurts, not helps. So scary… for us and the future generations. This is not about Republicans vs Democrats. That bill should have never been signed.

It can be argued, and rightfully so, that Obama inherited some of the current economic mess. I’ll give him that.
It can also be argued, and rightfully so, that the absurd policies Obama has proposed have rapidly accelerated the economic downturn, and I mean bigtime. He has scared the living crap out of Wall Street and the business community at large. In the spending bill passed as a so-called stimulus plan there is nothing to promote private sector jobs or help small business. Only a boat load of spending on social programs, and nothing to actually stimulate the private sector.
This administration has continuously lied to the tax payers, and so far has received a free pass from the media, except talk radio. For instance, if you remember the claim that the $13 per week change in withholding was touted as “the largest middle class tax cut in American history”. This, if it were an actual tax cut, would be a bald faced lie in itself. What most people haven’t quite figured out yet is that this is no tax cut at all. The change was made to the withholding tables, and not the actual tax table. So in other words, you get your whopping $13 per week now, only to pay it right back at the end of the year when you file your taxes!
So go right ahead, take credit for saving 25 jobs, even though those 25 jobs you touted are only funded for one year. And continue to blame others for the economic downturn. But one day President Barack Hoover Obama will have to take credit, or accept blame, for economic policies that are going to send this already bad, and worsening, economy straight down the toilet.

To see how many ‘Pet Projects’ were entered by the same Republicans, who voted against the Bill, was quite amusing. The Republicans, on the Hill, are beginning Again, to show why they lost the Election. Their mental ability to scutinize the Bill, after they put 40% of their own ‘Pork” into it, is laughable. If our County fails, we can only remember the Roadblocks, that the Republicans have put up. Even if Obama released the perfect Stimulus Bill, Republicans, and that over-weight guy with the cigar, would continue to wish the government would fail. Why? Because it was a Democrat that saved this country. Far-Right Republicans will not be able to save face, if Obama is successful. So they have to Road-Block our economy, and Democratic ideas. Road-Blocking Democratic ideas…isn’t that like Road-Blocking Democracy. The Majority of the people have voted for Democratic ideas, but the Republicans on the Hill, seem like they don’t care about The People. Just the loss of Power, they now suffer.

Traveler, poor dear, I think you are conflating the Stimulus Bill, passed in a rush last month, and the Omnibus Spending Bill, currently before the Congress. The Republican (and Democrat) pork you decry is in the Spending Bill. The Democrats kept the pork in the stimulus bill for themselves. *G* And the Republicans had no opportunity to slip some sort of poison pill into the stimulus bill– remember, we had to rush to get that passed before anyone could read the thing. Pelosi and company did not allow Republicans to get their hands on the stimulus bill. Its failure, should it come, will not be the fault of the republicans, who all (well, all but 3) voted against it and did not help write it.
Republican earmarks are as bad as Democratic earmarks. The Omnibus Spending bill should not pass, and if passed, should be vetoed. Wasteful government spending should be rooted out– it is not a partisan issue.

Here is a headline from this site on March 3 :Administration Says Economic Plans Already Showing Results
By JAKE TAPPER
WASHINGTON, March 3, 2009″
Signs? What signs? They must not have anticipated this 650K job losses last year.