Stimulus Goal Downsized

hmmmm, the next examination of the “stimulus” package will report that the estimate was to high and the growth will only be the 25 jobs that the ohio police department reported…..so much for the “stimulus” .

Alot Of spending That was Focused on Jobs was Took out of the Bill and Replaced with TAX CUTS For the Republicans!

plainoldcitizen; But they’re good union jobs with benefits. They’re long overdue. The best part is they represent votes for the labor union party. sic

The majority of concern today is about our failing economy and those in charge of dealing with the problem not being up to the task. It’s time for the American taxpayers to step up and join protest groups now forming all over the country. Enough words, we are just spinning in circles talking about the mess our own federal government has created. Protest marches, tax revolts, national one day strikes, are coming to the forefront. If we want the madness to stop, we need to clean up the mess in Washington. Congress is full of democrats and republicans that have divided our people into two hate groups and that needs to stop. Congress has clearly told the American taxpayers to go to hell with the 8000+ pork and earmarks attached to legislation that was supposed to help us out of the mess we are in. Any good a recovery package would have done was destroyed by our own senators and congressman. All these people need to go. Term limits must be imposed on congress and no more full pay for life retirement and full, free medical insurance for life for these bozo’s for serving only one 4 year term. These things should make your blood boil.

Get ready, another “stimulus” is in the works. Disgusting !!! What did we get from the first one? 25 jobs.

Pelosi needs to understand that it will take time to recover from the Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush years. The bubble is 35 years in the making. She is a partisan nut.

If the stimulus went to the individual taxpayers only, there would be a domino effect to the top and help all. The way it is only helps the big have bigger bonuses and parties.

obama kind of penned himself in the other day when he said the stimulus will create 3.5 AMERICAN jobs. This reminds me of Bush 41, read my lips

The stimulus bill was not a stimulus bill at all. Thats why its not producing the number of jobs estimated. It was nothing more than a democrat wish list to pay back the base for voting for Obama and to solidify the base well into the future. The tax and spend Democrats are now in charge. Elections have consequences and now we get to reap the ‘benefits’ of said consequences.

Tax the rich and speread the wealth.

The “stimulous” was not about stimulous, but a way for government to determine what will be best for us all.

No surprise there – just an effort to “prepare” us so Obama and the Democrates can steal more of our money -oh and by the way, did you read that 300,000 illegals will be eligible for the jobs that were supposed to go to Americans.
Who were the idiots that voted these people into office??

It will be 3 years from now and Pelosi and the Dems will still be blaming anything bad that happens in the world on Bush!! Is the stock market crash since the inauguration Bush’s fault? I don’t think so….more of the market’s reaction to the ridiculous amount of drunken sailor spending Obama wants to do.

The “War-on-Wealth” policies of the marxist drug addict and his hopelessly hopeless loony-left liberal d-crat sycophants are the biggest threat to America’s future.
The hussein bear market is being driven by fear of the consequences of the irresponsible pork-a-palooza and social welfare boondoggle he, and the loony-left d-crats, are pursuing. This “generational theft” will curtail economic growth and hobble the economy for decades. Welcome to the new and improved great depression. As the economy burns, hussein wastefully spends the earnings of future generations.
But, if your have NO INTEGRITY, NO ETHICS, NO CONSCIENCE and NO BRAINS and are a loony-left liberal d-crat (i.e. a TAX CHEAT), you don’t have to worry about this since you can just “geithner” your taxes and all this waste won’t cost you a penny.

2.5 million jobs SAVED or created. A congressman, I forget who, said it allows Obama and his team not to fail. If 1 million jobs are lost, they can say it would have been 3.5 million without the “stimulus.”

You mean that they didn’t actually consult any economists when they made the plan??? And now that it’s passed, they’re just now finally figuring this out?

Seriously now. Won’t anyone listen to reason?
The best cure for a recession is a recession. It is natural. Throwing money at this will only make it worse for future generations. The Republicrats are determined to destroy this country!

Well, at least BoBo talked about education today. Every time he opens his mouth about the economy the market tanks.
BoBo! Just shut up! We all know that you are a moron. Let Nancy make a few headlines and I promise the economy will get better WITHOUT you!

to all of you who buy this stimulus crap,
would you think it smart to bury your family deeper into debt as a way to financial solvency? Obviously not. We need to focus on the fundamentals. there is a ton of money all over the world afraid to invest in businesses for fear of government taking more and more. We need less government and more adherence to the constitution.

I am thanking God every day I didn’t vote for the current president. What an idiot!! I am looking forward to the failure of this current administration so we can finally get the change we all need so badly. And it isn’t change we need so much as we need to bring jobs and industry back to the USA and quit out-sourcing, as well as stop throwing money we don’t have on this economy, that isn’t stimulous, it’s just ignorant.

Bob Retired…you are spot on! 100% retirement after just 4 years in Congress?! Insane!! Not to mention the 100% special medical plan they have. Put them on Medicare with the rest of the retirees. I doubt they will let it fail then. Two-term limits for both houses. We need to go back to citizen politicians and have them focus on doing what’s right instead of the next election.

And just how could this have been a surprise? Anyone with an ounce of common sense should have been able to ascertain that this was BS back when he was campaigning (oops sorry…he is still campaigning!) Best guess will be everyone gets to go back to their “old” jobs and he will take the credit for putting America back to work with our own tax dollars. People…he is not King…will someone please tell him that?

We’re doomed
On another abc blog, ‘Tanya’ posted that she needs a bailout. She is upset that her credit card is charging her high interest rates.
She bought a car with her credit card.
Of course she supports Obama. She is the perfect sheeple. She can’t make lifes decisions on her own and needs the government to think and act for her. So she wants a bailout at my expense.

Jobs Created? More like Jobs bought with tax dollars…..

How many zeros in a billion?
This is too true to be funny…..
The next time you hear a politician use the
word ‘billion’ in a casual manner, think about
whether you want the ‘politicians’ spending
YOUR tax money.
A billion is a difficult number to comprehend,
but one advertising agency did a good job of
putting that figure into some perspective in
one of its releases.
A.A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
B.A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
C.A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
D.A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth.
E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government is spending it.
While this thought is still fresh in our brain…
let’s take a look at New Orleans ….
It’s amazing what you can learn with some simple division.
Louisiana Senator,
Mary Landrieu (D)
is presently asking Congress for
250 BILLION DOLLARS
to rebuild New O rleans Interesting number…
what does it mean?
A.
Well… if you are one of the 484,674 residents of New Orleans
(every man, woman, and child)
you each get $516,528.
B.
Or… if you have one of the 188,251 homes in
New Orleans , your home gets $1,329,787.
C.
Or… if you are a family of four…
your family gets
$2,066,012.
Washington , D. C
….HELLO!….
Are all your calculators broken??
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Tax
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemploy ment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
0ATelephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Tax
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not ONE of these taxes existed 100 years ago…
and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt..
We had the largest middle class in the world…
and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened?
What the heck happened? ????
Can you spell, “P-O-L-I-T-I-C-I-A-N-S”?

We have record deficits, record military and non military spending, uncontrolled, insecure borders, troops in 130 countries (instead of the US border) record unemployment, matched with inflation, and an unfunded mandate crisis that is bankrupting the states, that Obama wants to add further with nationalized mandatory health care and psychological screenings for you and your children as well… Does THIS sound lke a country that will be able to exist? Forget the unfunded mandate crisis, and the military budget “black hole”, HOW are we going to survive with a declining tax base, to pay for social programs from the retirees and the illegal immmigrants??? Does Obama have a plan for THIS! Who is he going to raise taxes on with record unemployment and corporations that have offshored and outsourced jobs and tax base workers overseas. Wealthy millionaires and corporations and individuals DONT pay taxes! And are NEVER even penalized! WHERE is Obama going to get the money? How many of our ports can he sell to China? How many national resources (like parks) can he lease to the United Nations? This has a finite amount he can do before it becomes unsupportable! Doesn’t ANYBODY out there recognize this!?!

Jobs schmobs. Who cares when the Citi CEO has bailed-out Wall Street gurus celebrating today. Maybe we should just buy bailed-out Citi stock and we’ll never have to work another day in our lives?

If you read The Economist Magazine, the one complain they had over and over was that the Stimulus was too small, given the enormity of the problem, and since then, we have found out banks are far LESS stable than they first reported. We are in a train steaming for the cliff. how many jobs did Bush create???? None. So if this creates 2.5 million, well, that’s 2.5 million MORE than bush. Bush created job LOSS! Let’s all remember that, shall we?

Cowgirl, Unions don’t give a flying crap about their workers, they care about union officials keeping the huge salaries, conventions in Vegas and Bahama resort retreats. They have not gave a crap about the rank & file since Hoffa disappeared.

When did economists predict Bush’s policies would create a single job? I dont recall. And obviously Bush’s economic policy resulted in a Recession/Depression. We’ve had no growth for over 8 y ears. What Bush called growth was actually folks taking equity out of their homes to spend. I’d say any growth due to government legislatoin is a huge leap forward and something we haven’t had for nearly a decade so I’d say it’s a great start. 50 days in and he already did something productive. Heck, 8 years and can you point to a single thing Bush did that created something productive????? Anything??? one thing???? I can’t. This is a step up.

Yeah….Ozarkess….one question
If Obama is so great and congress so bad. What did he do when he was there the last two years?

“If Obama is so great and congress so bad. What did he do when he was there the last two years?”
Ran for President.

We could save or create another 1.5 million jobs by getting rid of Nancy Pelosi. She has done more damage to the economy than any one person in history!

Hey, at least he’s predicted to create jobs!!! Haven’t seen that for a long time! And frankly, with t he state of the interstate highways and bridges and our antiquated grid, I’m glad. We let our country fall apart too long.Bush put this whole country, it’s economy, it’s infrastructure, it’s research efforst, all on the back burner. Nice to see Obama putting the country and our economy first. However million jobs, we’ll take em!!!! Better than handing out trillions to folks so they can invest in china!

someone please punch Pelosi in the mouth. BO is a total deek too.

Let sjust give money out to any industry that is failing…we have the ability to jsut keep printing money so who cares….right? ;)

Less than a 100 days in and already economists are saying that his efforts will have results. Hey, not bad. Yeah, we’d all like it to be more,but it’s pretty amazing to hear economist come forward and say “this is going to work” at all, to any degree. Clearly Bush was on the “how big can a fail” plan for America. Bush was not the least bit successful in anything he did. NOTHING. So it’s nice to see the first time out the gate, Obama will have some measured success.

“(Think about that, why was a newcomer allowed to rise to the most coveted position in American politics?) It’s because no one in this congress or senate was qualified.”
Uhh…. I hate to break it to you, Ozark, but Obammy was a member of the Senate. A junior member, but a member, no less. So by your logic, Obammy isn’t qualified. And I would have to agree with you whole-heartedly.
What is needed is a TRUE outsider, one who actually has a list of accomplishments, understands business, economic and energy concepts, is not beholden to Beltway politics and is a breath of optimistic, can-do fresh air.
OBAMA ’08 – - “Change We Can Believe In”
PALIN ’12 – - “Change You’ll Be Begging For”

Why did anyone think that spending would create savings?

“PALIN ’12″
Ha! If Palin even makes it on to the top half of the Republican ticket, I’ll eat Dave’s shoe.

“What is needed is a TRUE outsider, one who actually has a list of accomplishments”
You mean like taking 4 schools to graduate in 6 years with a journalism degree, be mayor of a town of 12, and then the governor of a state where people expect nothing of their government? Impressive list there.

R U kidding me .. Are you kidding me ??
You must living out of welfare and find this massive spending good.For those who say that the republicans want Obama to fail I must say he does not need any help, his mistress Pelosi will take care of that. The democrats including Hussein Obama wanted us to loose the war in Iraq. Can you remember or your memory is selective ????

Those said that the stimulis was not big enough would repeat the same excuse again and again to cover their continuous failure. Just like AIG claims that the any bailout is never enough.

whateva–”Less than a 100 days in and already economists are saying that his efforts will have results. Hey, not bad.”– What economists are you listening to? Bill Mahr? less than 100 days in and the stock market has dropped 50%.. the unemployment rate went up another 1/2 percentage point this month. The economy continues to retract and Obama now wants to spend MORE…

Our problems really began long ago. The American government (both congress and the president) approved the exportation of American business and jobs through NAFTA. Politicians in Washington represent those that pay them the most money (lobbyists representing big business). It’s really comical, when politicians run for office, they say, “vote for me and I’ll go to Washington and fight for you”. Ha ha, what a big joke. The initial spark that started the exportation of American jobs was the desire by big corporations to expand by making and selling their products in huge, new, untapped overseas markets. Using Coca Cola as an example, fifty years ago every street corner, business , store, and gas station in America sold Coke. They couldn’t expand any more, but making and selling Coke in Europe, Russia and China caused executives to salivate. The plans were set in motion to change American laws, and establish new trade agreements with other countries. The concept was a new global economy. Big business carefully and skillfully maneuvered new laws and treaties needed to accomplish their goals. After many years of behind the scenes preparation, NAFTA was introduced to Congress. Most of the preliminary work to get the needed votes for approval was done well before hand. American workers, unions, and the public were kept very much in the dark until it was too late to fight it. NAFTA sailed through congress. That’s why so many say our government is broken because senators and congressman sold out the American workers and the American people when they approved NAFTA. It became clear our government no longer represented the voters or taxpayers in this country. This is the reason why I chose not to vote the last election. The government is broken and they all need to be thrown out of office, both democrats and republicans alike. I will give my life to fight for and defend our nation, but I wouldn’t lift a finger to defend this pathetic US Government, or what the government calls “American interests” overseas. American interests over seas are nothing but big business interests. Term limits are needed now, lobbyists need to be outlawed in Washington, and full pay pensions and free life time health care for congressman & senators after serving only one 4 year term must be stopped.

“What economists are you listening to? Bill Mahr? less than 100 days in and the stock market has dropped 50%.. the unemployment rate went up another 1/2 percentage point this month. The economy continues to retract and Obama now wants to spend MORE…”
You know better than this.

rightbehind–”This president inherited a mess. Republicans have been busy eroding the US economy for more than 24 years. It will not be repaired overnight.”– back that up with something if you don’t mind.. How have republicans been eroding the economy?…
Reagan took us from carter’s 12% unemployment and 155 inflation to 6%.. Bush 2 took us from Clinton’s 6.7% (yes it was that high at the end of his administration) back down to 5.1% (not quite as good as Clinton’s best years, but it did stop a recession in 03). then the dems created this entire mortgage mess by letting fannie and freddie control THEM.. and now we have another dem who is letting it all snowball to the next great depression..whiel he and the puppet masters are running roughshod over all of us to make sure that when all is said and done, we will not longer control our gfovernment, but will be dependent on it…

CitiGroup (Bank) said it made first profit since 2007. Give me $100 billion and I will make a profit too. What happens when the federal funds trough is depleted and there is no more? One can only guess. If the economy fails to improve, the opportunity for more federal funding is extremely risky, given the escalating National Debt and the enormous interest cost of that debt.

Pelosi is the biggest idiot I have ever seen in Congress. Just think she is two heartbeats away from the presidency. Saying the “bush economy” is an idiotic statement. Pelosi has led the Demoncrats in the house for two years. She is part of the reason we are in this mess. This is the “demoncrat economy”

How long has Nancy and the Dems been running Congress? None of this mess belongs to her and Harry Reid? What a joke.

Is this Nancy Pelosi’s first term? I guess the incumbents had nothing to do with the state of the economy.

“When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion — when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – when you see money flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that your society is doomed.”
–Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged (1957)

Tonya–”Frank sorry you need to stop listen to Rush. No one wanted us to lose the war in Iraq. That is BULL and you know it.”– Actually you are wrong– what do YOU call it when Harry reid publically states “This war is lost” as he tried to pressure the president to withdraw unconditionally…face it.. had we lost, it would have been a great “crisis” for the dems to get elected on.. since that didn’t work out, they blamed the republicans for the mortgage mess THEY caused and are still blaming them for their own failures to fix it… Wasn’t it Rahm Emanuel who said no good crisis should be wasted?

As a followup to the above about NAFTA. Now that America is in a precarious employment situation, it is important to realize that as a result of NAFTA it is estimated almost 25 million blue collar, middle class, manufacturing, assembly line and associated support jobs have been shipped overseas. Now, when these jobs are desperately needed for a recovery, they are gone. Than you US Congress, and Mr. President (Bill Clinton) for destroying our economic engine we need now more than ever. All those foreign countries will be far ahead of the good ole USA now that they have our manufacturing plants, assembly lines, and related support jobs. We, in America are now proud owners of the “service” economy. You wash my windows, I’ll cut your lawn, and you know Bill down the street, the electrical engineer, is flipping burgers at MacDonald’s. A good job in America nowadays is working for Walmart. Go ahead, keep arguing over democrat versus republican stuff, you only hurt the American people more by not focusing on that evil bunch in Washington, DC, both the congress and the president that have done more damage to our country than any war ever has.

Silky–”You know better than this.”– Gee silky..yesterday you wesponded to one of my posts with “this is completely wrong”– I have noticed lately that you don’t seem to be able to really apply any logical responses to differing opinions.. Is that becasue even you are seeing through all the garbage and realizing that this president is going to destroy the economy?

Republicans are such a bunch of whiny crybabys – do they seriously think that Obama is going to wave a magic wand and fix all of Bush and the GOP’s messes overnight? It took a long time for the Republicans to create this economic meltdown, and it will take the rest of us a long time to fix it.
Meanwhile, GOP whiners and obstructions offer no help or solutions – they’re like a bunch of overgrown, mentally handicapped babies who love to wallow in their own feces and then cry when an adult tries to come in and clean up their fouled playpen.
Republicans are worthless people. Nobody responsible will ever listen to them again.

Obama is Pelosi’s little pet!

“….only 2.5 million jobs will be saved or created in the next two years.” Well, what about the last EIGHT years? According to the WSJ, the Bush administration only created about 3 million jobs (net) over its EIGHT years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Clinton. The country now has almost 12 million unemployed. And according to the 2007 Census, 37.3 million Americans are living below the poverty level. Of course it’s going to take time to create more jobs and level the playing field.

Mingus fingus–”Republicans are such a bunch of whiny crybabys – do they seriously think that Obama is going to wave a magic wand and fix all of Bush and the GOP’s messes overnight? It took a long time for the Republicans to create this economic meltdown, and it will take the rest of us a long time to fix it.”– Umm you menaq all of Frank’s and Pelosci’s mess don’t you.. this was NOT a republican crated problem.. it was created and propigated by democrats.. now the same social democracy idealogy is what they are using to try to fix it with increasingly worse and worse results.. at what point will you see the real problem? when unemployment is 10%, 15%, 20%? When inflation is 8%, 12%, 25%? When will you say enough?? after it is too late?

Republicans are such a bunch of whiny crybabys – do they seriously think that Obama is going to wave a magic wand and fix all of Bush and the GOP’s messes overnight? It took a long time for the Republicans to create this economic meltdown, and it will take the rest of us a long time to fix it.
Meanwhile, GOP whiners and obstructions offer no help or solutions – they’re like a bunch of overgrown, mentally handicapped babies who love to wallow in their own feces and then cry when an adult tries to come in and clean up their fouled playpen.
Republicans are worthless people. Nobody responsible will ever listen to them again.
Posted by: Mingus Fingus | Mar 10, 2009 3:43:49 PM
This post serves no purpose, just taking up cyber space.

notafan – actually that sounds about right to me: Rich Republican party bosses like Rush Limbutt drive around in Hummers and live in crapulent mcmansions, while the dumb arse rank and file live in trailer parks and smoke crystal meth and rant about black helicopters and whatnot. The Republican party is all about a two-tiered society where the rich dominate the poor and middle class no longer exists.

Mingus Fingus: Way to be open minded. When did you become one of the Democratic collective? Can you have an original thought? Can you hear things you disagree with and civilly take other viewpoints into consideration? Offering total disrespect to people that have opposing views is no way to influence people. Is the democratic thought process one that demeans people that disagree with them so their followers can no longer consider independent thought? Keep your blind devotion and keep the welfare checks coming.

The rest of us sensible folks are at least giving the President a chance – go crawl back under your rock. Nobody needs your crap right now.
Posted by: Angie | Mar 10, 2009 3:57:24 PM
The key word here is “sensible”. OK

idahogirl–”only 2.5 million jobs will be saved or created in the next two years.” Well, what about the last EIGHT years? According to the WSJ, the Bush administration only created about 3 million jobs (net) over its EIGHT years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Clinton.” –sorry to burst your bubble too, but that is all wrong..first, Bush netted 3 million jobs over the eight year period. Which means that his created jobs were offset by jobs lost in his first year (between the end of the clinton administration and 9/11) His actaully job creation was almost 10 million but offset by the 6.8 million lost at the end of the Clinton whitehouse. Using the same measuring stick, Clinton actaully did not create ANY new jobs since the unemployment rate was relatively the same when he left as it was when he started.. the 23 million is a complete fabrication by the Clinton whitehouse ( it has been stated at 28 million on several occassions) this number was arrived at by adding all created jobs during his 8 years without subtracting any lost jobs from the total. Want proof — when clinton took office, the unemployment rate was 5.6% 280 million americans times 5.6% means that about 15.5 million were unemployed. When he left the rate was 4.5% which means that 12.5 million were still unemployed that means his net was 3 million not 23 million.. Now if you credit the 6.8 million lost before bush ever drew up his first budget, or passed his first tax cut, to Clintons economy, then the total for Clinton was -3.8 million jobs…

Henry – go back to your weed and let the adults handle this. Reaganomics worked. Nobamanomics fails.

Angie…..I have several friends who are floor traders and also floor brokers on Wall street. I speak with them regularly and let me tell you, not one of them or anyone else on that floor has any faith in Obama’s policies. This is why the market is tanking.

Mingus–interesting post.. you used 17 separate slurrs and defamatory adjectives against conservatives – all in order to tell us NOT to be obnoxious so people would take us seriously..wow am I the only one who finds this hilarious?

Mingus Fingus: We had to listen to the dems over the last 8 years. After only 2 months you are tired of us? Get used to it. And by the way, there are a lot of people that love America and want the best for it. That typically means slowing down the government because when they work too fast only bad things happen. Now go worship at your Obama alter and cash your govt. check.

Spread The Wealth – I’m sure you do… but like I said – anyone who holds the President directly and personally responsible for Wall Street is an idiot – and that includes your friends. Seriously, grow up already!

boulderhipppy – So it’s not about good policy for you, it’s all about partisanship? Thanks for clarifying your position. It was just as the rest of us suspected, and now we know there is absolutely no reason to take your whining seriously. LOL

Texan: Reaganomics “worked” at doing what – burying the nation under a graveyard of debt? Shipping the nation’s manufacturing jobs (the only real wealth generator the nation had) overseas to China and India and down to Mexico? Replacing solid pension plans with a 401k house of cards?
FYI, I also blame Bill Clinton and gang of Wall St. cronies for their free trade and financial industry deregulation policies for destroying our economy. Both Bushes, especially the latter, provided the coup de grace.
(And sorry to burst your bubble, but I’m a tee-totaller).

Sorry Arkie vet, I’m going with the numbers published in the Journal based on Labor Department payroll numbers, not “fabrication”. The counts are based on total payrolls between the start of the month the president took office (using the final payroll count for the end of the prior December) and his final December in office.
Because the size of the economy and labor force varies, the WSJ also calculated in percentage terms how much the total payroll count expanded under each president. After taking account how long Bush had been in office, he showed the WORST track record for job creation since the government began keeping records in 1939.

Angie –”Spread The Wealth – I’m sure you do… but like I said – anyone who holds the President directly and personally responsible for Wall Street is an idiot -”– Anybody who can not recognize that the action of the president and congress DIRECTLY affect the market is an even bigger idiot.. Obama said earlier this week when asked about the continued fall of the market that the market”was like a tracking poll, it goes up and it goes down and it doesn’t really mean anything” — He was half right.. it is like a tracking poll, but it has great meaning.. it is a reflection on how the economy feels about government policy.. and right now.. theya are all feeling a little sick to their stomach about his.. You know i don’t think i have ever seen the liberals go from optimism to denial as fast as they have this election cycle.. Maybe you guys should just face facts.. You were sold a vison that has no value…and now you are seeing a plan self destruct…

More of the failed democratic Donkeynomics.

arkie vet – oh please, just admit that your real agenda has NOTHING to do with Wall St. and everything to do with undermining the President out of sheer partisanship.
Stop pretending to be reasonable and responsible and just admit that you hate Dems and will do or say anything to destroy a Democratic President.
Because anything else you say is pretty much crap. LOL

“The democrats ….wanted us to loose the war in Iraq”…really? name ONE person who said “I want the US To fail in Iraq” Or “I want bush to fail”. Name one. Go ahead. Show me proof. NOBODY WANTED bush to fail, they were ANGRY Bush was failing. They were ANGRY at failure. Hence the “my God he’s so incompetent! Can he do nothing right????” Folks EXPECTED bush to do something right. He didn’t. He screwed up everything he touched. This IS the bush economy. All those fannie mae mortages combined do not amount to a fraction of the losses banks are posting. Banks aren’t failing en masse due ot fannie and freddie! How infantile. Even your boy Fox news moron bill Oreilly admits that. This IS A result of bush’s economic policy. And NOBODY WANTED bush to fail.l NOBODY. Only republicans wish for hte fall of their country in hopes of their own political gain.

Mingus Fingus: It is totally about policy. The current adminstration is turning our people into dependents of the govt. They take our money and give it to someone else. I disagreed with Bush’s bank bailout too. I disagree with a great society concept. The govt cannot create jobs. They can only create a job creation environment. As far as slowing down govt. I mean the wreckles spending. Govt spends money and when they say it is an investment they are actually taking our money and spending it.

boulderhippy – wrong. That’s not “policy” you’re talking about, that’s ideology. And you’re not actually talking facts, but opinions based on your own rightwing free market economic ideology.
Well guess what, genius – the free market failed to regulate itself like all the Friedmanites claimed it would, and now all the capitalists are lining up to take government handouts. Times have changed and your ideology just couldn’t keep up. Now it’s time to give some new thinking a try. You need to sit down, shut up, stop peddling the same old failed mantras and truisms of the GOP and give our President a chance to actually make his policies work. Nobody wants to hear your whining, obstructionist crap. You guys were WRONG about the market’s ability to regulate itself – why should any of us believe that your fearmongering about Obama’s policies are right now?
Sorry, but you guys need a time out to think about what you’ve done. Deal with it.

Spread The Wealth – if they aren’t failing then why are they complaining so much? What a bunch of whiners… They need to shut up and give the stimulus a chance before they start talking their pessimistic nonsense.

idaho girl- “he showed the WORST track record for job creation since the government began keeping records in 1939.”– we started keeping records long before 39, in fact if you look at Roosevelt’s “track record” it was FAR worse using your method than anyone else..

Again, name me ONE democrat who said “I WANT (Notice the word WANT) I WANT Bush to fail” NO ONE said that!! NOT ONE DEMOCRAT WANTED Bush to fail!!! In their opinion he WAS failing and for that thye were ANGRY!!!!! That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of republicans. REGARDLESS of not agreeing with his policy especially on Iraq they w ere ANGRY they saw the war as a failure!!!! ONLY republicans WANT AMerica to fail!! ! And just WATCH where that gets you in midterms!!! Just you watch!

arkie vet – that is pure nonsense – do you know how many millions of jobs were created under Roosevlet during WWII that simply didn’t exist before? Why do you keep making up/ purposely misreading statistics? Do you think the rest of us are idiots? Please!

idaho girl, –oh and by the way when you offset one year (as you should) for Reagan to take out Carter’s last year of economic “control and move to the first year of Bush 1.. then you get job growth of 10.8% to 5.4% or a Job growth of 12 million for Reagan’s 8 years.. which dwarfed the numbers of both Bush and Clinton.

R U Kidding Me. . . .who do you think Harry Reid was doing when he said “The Iraq war is lost”

do you know how many millions of jobs were created under Roosevlet during WWII that simply didn’t exist before? Why do you keep making up/ purposely misreading statistics? Do you think the rest of us are idiots? Please!
————————————-
Angie,
Roosevelt did not “create” those jobs! The WAR did! FDR’s policies were a mess, WWII is what truly pulled America out of the end of the Depression Era.

Spread That Wealth – are they the same geniuses who gave you that bogus 50% statistic you tried to pass off earlier? I seriously do not give a crap what a bunch of Wall St. whiners with their herd mentality have to say about Obama – Floor Traders are a notoriously fickle lot, about as bright as a pack of lemmings if you ask most people. LOL

Nando: No, I do not hate democrats. I however do not agree with the way they feel about government needing to be a charity. I do not agree with the spending on frivolous things (both parties are guilty of this one). I don’t think we should cater to either the rich or poor. I believe the excessive govt taxes, fees, surcharges and excise fees should be simplified for everyone. I believe our Representitives should be more like statesmen than fund raisers. We are all American and should look at both sides of an issue without blindly following. It seems like you can’t criticize the other side without being called nasty things. I might be guilty of doing that but I shall try in the future to be dragged back into that cesspool of disrespect.

Arkie,
You have to remember. Liberals a re like zoo animals. They need that sign, PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE LIBERALS ANY REAL FACTS!

boulderhippy2 – oh please. Stop lying. You are clearly a partisan headcase. Do me a favor and make a list of 10 things that you like about Obama and the Democrats, okay?

Spread That Wealth – so then why are you and your friends whining about Obama’s policies?
BTW – did you see that the market closed up today? By your logic that must mean that Obama’s fiscal policies are working!

Nando – good observation! The market closed up today – according to the Obama-hating partisan obstructionists that must mean that Obama’s economic policies are working, since he is clearly the only force that ever impacts the stock market. LOL

Angie–”But the facts show that we were well on our way out of the depression by 1940, and didn’t actually go to war until 1941. You do the math. “– actually the facts (and figures) show that we were completly stagnant at about 18% unemployment and it was NOT improving. UCLA released a study last year that provided a detailed breakdown of the depression as Roosevelt’s policies .. now UCLA is a pretty liberal university, but their conclusion was that the depression would have corrected in 4 to 6 years were it not for Roosevelt’s new deal policies..those policies caused the depression to EXTEND for over 8 years and were it not for WW2, the study concluded that the depression may have continued for another decade.. This is from a 2 year study out of a very liberal university… kind of makes you wonder don’t it?

arkie vet – wow. That is pure malarkey. Seriously. Social democracy isn’t akin to communism – it’s still compatible with the free market and private property. After all, as Angie correctly pointed out, we are ALREADY a social democracy. What the current debate is about is whether we want to expand our social safety net or continue on the same path that created this economic mess. As for your silly claims about a class of people that’s dependent on the government for support – I suppose you want to abolish our professional military, too?
Get a clue.

arkie vet – incorrect. Try again.

boulderhippy – whatever, man. you have some serious anger issues regarding Dems that you need to resolve. I didn’t ask you to list 10 Dems you liked, I asked you to list 10 things that you liked about Democrats – anything, dude. Nice hair, nice teeth, kind to kitties and puppies, whatever – and you couldn’t even do that? Very sad Your partisanship is completely out of control. And when you tell me that “some of my friends are Democrats” you sound like an old time racist saying “but some of my best friends are black” – and nobody ever believed their crap either. Seek help, man. Seek help.

I don’t think that the accommodations to the GOP were warranted and thus caused a shortfall — that and the fact that the news has been quick and harsh. I am thoroughly under the impression that Bush did nothing because he didn’t look for answers and prayed that things would fall apart more in the January time-frame — and that the GOP has been no help — the only answer they have is NO — I hope Americans remember this when it comes to voting in 2010 and give them their answer right back.
We may just have a third party grow out of all this ridiculous obstruction.

Reading comprehension apparently isn’t this board’s stong suit. I’ll leave you jokers with this, upon my “stupid and fickle, herd mentality, floor trader” friends advice, I’ve probably been riding a short sale on most of the stocks in your plummeting 401K since election day and before every time Barry speaks, I up the ante. Thank you Barry, and have a good day!!

Angie –see my post 5:41:44
Peace

How long ago did you live in Portugal? The EEC hasn’t existed since 1993. Ever heard of the EU? Also, I wouldn’t base my view of European social democracies on Portugal, which is historically one of the poorest countries in Europe. Have you been to Germany or Northern Europe much? They do just fine with their system and their standard of living often meets or even exceeds our own.
I suspect that your worldview is long out of date – as are most of your statistics. Frankly, I don’t have time to check all of your statistical claims, but I suspect most of them are extremely dubious and bogus.

Nando: As for my friends, I live and work in Boulder CO. One of the most liberal communities in the U.S. I don’t choose to live in a vacuum so I socialize with a lot of dems. I have seen what it does to a community. They buy open space land instead of fixing the streets. They tell you where and what you can build on your own property. They hang pensises in a public library and call it art. They put a tax or fee on everything possible. They spend so much money on studies that they can finish a project only 200% over budget. They built a massive homeless shelter that is nicer than the CU dorms. A business man bought a nice property that was historically an RV park. The former owner removed all of the RVs when he decided to sell. When he went for an RV park permit he was told that since they were gone he couldn’t get a permit. Yes I have anger issues because I am tired of working hard, making my mortgage, paying my taxes and never seeing any real benefit to my massive tax load.

Arkie vet – I also was going to ask you where you dredge up your info, but thank goodness you were able to explain: “Oregon Coast Magazine”. Yah, I’ll take that data any day over the Wall Street Journal. And as far as your position on the Great Depression – most Americans are willing to take advice from Ben Bernanke (who was appointed Fed Chair by President Bush). While you may not agree with his “Financial Accelerator” theory, it’s a worthwhile google. He believes the Great Depression provided a takeaway lesson: “government bears the important responsibility of trying to stabilize the economy and the financial system, as well as of assisting people affected by economic downturns.”

For those of you who think the stimulus bill was too small, I have a news flash. It is not a matter of Obama and the Democratic Congress not spending enough money; it is a matter of them not spending the money they did efficiently.
Suppose the government were to directly hire workers at $10/hr for full-time work. Each worker would receive $20,800 per year in compensation and the employer (the government) would have to contribute an additional $1,289.60 in FICA and $301.60 in Medicare Taxes. For 5 million workers, that would be a grand total of just under $112 billion per year. – about 1/8th of what the Democratic Congress spent in their “stimulus” bill.
Now, the government directly hiring workers probably wouldn’t be in our nation’s interest. So, instead, let’s have the government offer to pay half the wages of any such new positions created by Private Enterprises. There isn’t a company around who wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to expand operations with the government picking up half the price. More importantly, this would create not a mere 5 million jobs at the pricepoint I gave earlier, but 10 million.
Now, let’s look at the direct effects of this proposal.
There are currently about 4 million people drawing unemployment – most of whom would be absorbed intp these new job positions. An additional 6 million people who are currently living on mere scraps or drawing welfare would fill in the rest of these positions. That means that the government no longer has to pay any of those unemployment, welfare, or food stamp benefits – which would recoup over half of the cost of the proposal I made.
Moreover, each of these workers now have a taxable income – which would allow boost tax revenues at federal, styate, and local levels. This serves to reduce the net cost of this program further (at the federal level),provide states with the revenue stream they are needing, and boost the amount of money available in the local communities to pay for police, fire, emergency, and school services to the public.
Additionally, the proposal I have made here would diminish the number of people actively seeking jobs, directly driving the wages of new jobs up as businesses are forced to compete to obtain the workers they need.
And all of these people earning more money would be spedning that at the stores and businesses throughout this country – driving up consumer confidence and demand, providing businesses with the revenuesd they have lost through this recession, and spurring further business expansion and development.
As a further note, the banks would find more people demanding banking accounts – providing the financial sector with the revenue necessary to revitalize the credit market in this nation.
Bottomline: a simple proposal costing far less than 1/8th of what Obama proposed per year could create far more jobs than he has promised us, move people from welfare and unemployment to productive work, boost consumer spending, revitalize the business and stock market, aid the financial sector in making a full recovery, and boost state and local revenues to provide the services our society needs (and boost some like education to where they need to be).
So, why aren’t the people in DC taking such an action? Maybe you should ask them for an answer to that. What I can tell you is that their current “stimulus” plan is a perfect example of inefficiencyt and lousy planning.

The Bush Economy? Oh, yeah, the Good Old Days.
========================