The President’s Commencement Controversy

Freeman quotes Notre Dame spokeman:
“I don’t foresee a circumstance in which we would rescind the invitation.”
Maybe if The CHANGEling actually sprouts horns during tonight’s corporate infomercial?
On the other hand, if the Catholics are okay with the serial matrimony of “Democratic” saboteur and Catholic-of-convenience John Kerry …

“I don’t foresee a circumstance–” unless the alumini cut donations.

Bush also gave a commencement speech at a Catholic College. Should they have protested because bush was a war-monger. The Pope at the time said that we should not invade Iraq, but yet we did. Most Catholics are smart people and know that everything is not a one-issue topic. This is why a majority of Catholics voted for Obama in 2008.

pt- Bush was often protested at commencement addresses.
Laura Bush was invited to speak at UCLA in 2002, and when students protested, she declined. Imagine that happening to Michelle Obama.
You really don’t want President Obama to be treated the way President Bush was.
Remember, Obama says he supported war in Afghanistan, and they are his now.

“On the other, Obama only likes to go where there will be assured adulation.”
What? What planet do you live on?
“Remember, Obama says he supported war in Afghanistan, and they are his now.”
What do you mean? The war in Afghanistan is “his?” Good! It should have been Bush’s.

What do you mean? The war in Afghanistan is “his?” Good! It should have been Bush’s.
==========
Yeah, sorry. Both wars are his now.

It didn’t take Erin long to play the race card. This POTUS will never do anything wrong. It will always be he is being picked on because he is black.

“if obama does go to ND for the commencement, this will be the first time for someone who declares himself to be a christian to be close to any christian establishment of any kind. After 2 months in office, he has not been to church once.”
How do you know? And who freaking cares?

In Obama’s mind everyone loves him.
What matters to Obama is to see thousands of people there for him–it’s all about him.
If he hears boos he’ll just blame it on Bush like he does everything else.

Like AIG, another fake controversy. Watch the other hand…the hand that has tripled the US Dollars money supply like some tinhorn 3rd world country. This act will ruin the country giving Obama/Ayers/Tax-cheat Geitner more excuses for radical change.

He is clearly a narcissist that thinks his charm can win over Catholic dogma, and, ‘bridge the gap’. Talk about ‘false choices’.
What he need to do is start managing…unfortunately, something he is wholly unprepared for.

The church is wrong to throw up these barriers to common civility. The fact is this is the President of the USA and not everyone graduating from that school is Catholic or even agrees with this line of thinking. Why would the Catholics be so ready to trip up this President. He is doing things to help many people in America doing things the last administration had no idea should even be done. He is a breathe of fresh air and should be treated better than this.I continue to be glad I am not a believer I know how to at least think a problem thru without having to ask a priest how I should feel about it.I guess if you want to make a mountain out of every mole hill then don’t be surprised if much of what you say goes unheard and ignored.

Its about time that people rose up against Obama. The media loves to paint such cutesey portraits of him in hopes that they can continue to sway public opinion. Many people out there do not like him or trust him period. Media manufactured and shoved down our throats for 2 years now – enough already. Good to see that some people do have a conscience and morals and will not blindly follow the Abortion President.

What hippocarcy by this conservative group! Notre Dame plays football, a brutal sport in which men create violence in front of a cheering crowd. Is this the teaching of JC? Furthermore, many former commencement speakers have been pro-choice, and for stem cell researcnincluding Bill Cosby, Mark Shields, Vernon Jordan,Jimmy Carter and many others. No protest there! Seems like they want to single out Obama .

“It’s a bunch of white racists lashing out against an African American.”
That particular all-purpose putdown has pretty much run out of steam. When ACTUAL AAs publicly turn on The CHANGEling for abandoning the mass of the people to corporate fascism, we’ll see some action.

These extremists would really put social views ahead of respecting their president? Amazing…

I doubt that the alumini would cut their donations to the Church or the University should he deliver the speech. They didn’t cut their donations to the Church during all of the priest sex scandals. They should consider it a privilege that he even accepted. And to the blogger that said that he hasn’t been to Church since he’s been President you need to check your facts.
Maybe the parents of the students attending the University perhaps should boycott the University and come forward with a petition since I’m sure that they are not teaching at home to molest innocent children as the priest have been doing for years.

Perhaps Obama can just send his teleprompters.
The crowds will get the same prepared speech without the controversy.
Anyone can read it.

Does this guy ever stay in the White House and actually work. He plays nightly with a host of brainless Hollywood stars, goes on late night TV(what happened to Letterman?), does 60 minutes he acts like a movie star not the president of the greatest country in the world. Is he going to fiddle while we are burning?

I assume that most of the people who are commenting on this nonsense favorably are either part of the reactionary faction of the Catholic Church or die hard Republicans looking for anyone to create more dissension. After the child molestation scandal within the Church, the insults to several non-Catholic religions, I believe that it is time that some Catholics become a little more humble and willing to listen to what others have to say. Further, unless you are also supporting the Pope’s nonsensical stand on the use of condoms during his visit to Africa you might just consider whose policies will cause more death and suffering. Most Catholics are more intelligent than this.

Is Rev. Wright a Catholic?

Why not bring Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi along for the ride? That way you can represent EVERYTHING that this great university is NOT about!

“It is an outrage and a scandal that ‘Our Lady’s University,’ one of the premier Catholic universities in the United States, would bestow such an honor on President Obama” — In my way of thinking it an honor for the school to have the President of the United States deliver the commencement address. The shear arrogance of The Cardinal Newman Society and their petition signers is astounding. What do you bet these same people would be very willing to put their hands out to President Obama for “faith based initiative” funding.

The pro-life thing with the Church has become almost a cult, essentially idolatry of the zygote… it’s sad that the Church has come to this… the obsession with this issue has become all-consuming for the Church and they’ve become very lax on the other issues that used to be important to the Church like social justice.
The Church used to be much more openminded and, unlike protestant religions, supportive of education, personal conscience, and “thinking for yourself”…
But, this has nothing to do with Catholic Church. Notre Dame has a bunch of very rich, Repbulican graduates… They fly in by private jet to the football games… They are Republicans trying to sully Obama’s name….

The Catholic Church will take care of their own short-comings. The Church does not need Obama.

“A majority of practicing Catholics DID NOT vote for Obama. I believe the figure is ~90% that did not vote for him.”
90%.. really? Geez, I know tons of practicing Catholics that voted for him… including myself!
Actually, according to exit polls, the number was split about 50/50…

You go President Obama. If the Bishop doesn’t want to attend, then that is his decision. I, for one, admire a President that doesn’t cow-tow to those that want to force their belief down all our throats. If you look at the last election, I’m not alone.

I’m a Catholic and these folks do NOT represent ME!
You go Barack!

as the catholic church disintigrates and paints itself into a corner, those of us who are leaving the church for more rational pastures are not surprised

This is being driven by a “vast right wing conspiracy”? LOL! Like everything else that is wrong in Liberalville, I guess this mess is George Bush’s fault.too!

This type of all out boycott makes it impossible to worth with President Obama on those topics on which we can agree and make progress. There are too many problems in the world and the country to refuse to deal with someone because of one difference. This sort of petition is a complete overreaction and is the sort of thing that can close a door on action on other topics.

Fact: If you want to join a religion and actually do whatever you want..Join the Catholic Church! They are the last religious organization to put up standards for anything!

catholics have given up their right to protest against anything. don’t like it – stay home. when the church cleans up its act – then maybe we will return. but until then – who cares what the church thinks

Just another attempt by Christianist terrorists to marginalize themselves. Why Obama gives them any legitimacy at all is beyond me.

Jesus said “Let the first among you who is not with sin cast the first stone”. This statement applies here.

“This is being driven by a “vast right wing conspiracy”? LOL! Like everything else that is wrong in Liberalville,”
From the article:
“In a campaign organized by The Cardinal Newman Society, a conservative Roman Catholic group,.”
Also looking around.
The petition is linked to at FoxNews, Free Republic, Hannity, Rush et all.
So yeah its right wingers driving this.

“This is being driven by a “vast right wing conspiracy”? LOL! Like everything else that is wrong in Liberalville, I guess this mess is George Bush’s fault.too!”
Of course, it’s a right wing conspiracy. What else would it be?
“Does anybody feel as though our country is healing or is better since Barack has been in office?”
Check the polls.

He kills unborn children. Why let him into a University that upholds the rights of the unborn? Let him go speak to the Philistines or the Democrats. There’s not much difference.

Are you telling me nobody at that school voted for Obama? Wasn’t it the Catholics that used to sell blessings for sins committed?

I am always amazed at the venom spewed by the [right] against people whose beliefs differ from their own. Isn’t it possible for [conservatives] to put forth their own ideas without denigrating other people or institutions? Their arguments would be so much stronger if they presented the merits of their own beliefs rather than attacking the character of the opposition.

Doesn’t seem Christian like to protest someone speaking because they don’t believe the same thing as you? A commencement speech does not have to be about religion just because it is a Catholic university.

Many thousands of frozen embryos are destroyed each year by fertility clinics. Where’s the outrage by the Catholic Church? Why do we not see these self-righteous Catholics picketing these clinics? Those same embryos slated to be flushed down the drain can be used to help millions of people suffering from paralysis, disease, and even some blindness. These disgruntled McCain supporters, I mean Catholics should practice what they preach…forgiveness and understanding.
God will judge us all in the end, leave it for Him to judge, not you.

Carl — Couldn’t agree more about the Church needing to come into the 21st century.

“Those babies are live human beings and Obama is murdering them.,”
RIGHT THERE IN THE ROSE GARDEN!

Catholics should have “squared off” with Obama at election time.

It is time for Palin ’12, PUMA!
Posted by: Obamacrat for Palin | Mar 24, 2009 3:20:53 PM
You would support an idiot for President – PALIN… just like you voted for Bush who raped this country economically and environmentally!

real Catholics love Obama !
unwanted children are not a blessing and neither are unwanted genetic diseases! the real solution to global warming is birth control.

Umm, Catholics, you guys voted overwhelmingly for BO. Why are you so angry? He never said he was pro-life. Good grief, he is actually for infanticide. I just don’t understand how you could not have known what you were getting us into.

It is the absurdity of these types of religious positions that I don’t support any church…To correlate stem cell research with the killing of human life is absurd…Religion has caused more wars and conflicts in this world than it was resolved…

Just like an Athiest cannot be a Pastor as a Bonefide qualification… or a Psychopath the Chief of Police… or a an Arsonist a Firefighter…or a gay person in charge of prop 8.. you cannot have a abortionist speak at a pro life school(Catholic) the general ideas and views have to line up.. or it is compromise.. if you play in a sand box with gloves on, only the gloves get dirty.. the sand does not get clean from the gloves.. Do Not Compromise Notre Dame.. or you are no better than any other secular school.

Obama, NEVER said he was for abortion or was not pro life…HE SAID HE WAS FOR PRO CHOICE…meaning that the choice is between the individual and their god or partner. AS a matter of fact he said in his speech that NO ONE is for abortion. Separation of church and religon…….that has always been the democratic stand…but there are those that want to make it sound that it is pro abortion.

Why do colorblind Republicans see everything in black and white. Abortion is a difficult issue, and the answers are certainly in the gray. And when faced with such difficult decisions, we need to be on the side of freedom ahead of the side of religion. I don’t like abortions, but I believe that women should have the freedom to choose what they want to do.
Same with guns. I don’t like guns. Religion says there’s no reason to have one, but when faced with a difficult decision like guns, we must err on the side of the freedom to have one.
It’s not all black and white!

I think conservatives are getting bent out of shape. I saw take a chill pill. President Obama will make a great commencement speaker.

By voting for any politician who is pro-choice, you are cooperating in sin. You play a role in whether or not unborn children live or die by your own actions. The Catholic leadership also does more harm than good by not taking a strong actions against these politicians who are pro-abortion. The claim to be pro-choice is bogus. Pro-choice a dichotomomy in terms. How can anyone claim to be both pro-life and pro-death at the same time.
Catholic politicians who claim to be pro-choice are just pandering for votes. They claim their personal belief is pro-life but in their political life, they have to support women’s reproductive rights. They are selling their souls to the devil. What about the unborn child’s rights? Life begins at conception. The definition of an abortion is to kill the fetus. You can’t kill something if it is not already alive, so by admitting that abortion causes the death of a fetus (unborn child), them you must admit it is the same as murder. Does anyone really think God sees it any differently? If one claims not to be sure when life begins (it is above your pay grade), then at least why not err on the side of safety. Err on the side of good and not evil as we will each be held accountable before God when we die.

First of all I would like to say that I am not out to offend anyone but I don’t like BO’s thoughts on abortion or stem cell research. It would be a hard pill to swallow for me to be given a speech at my graduation by someone I had no moral respect for. Just my opinion. I know there are those of you who think that religion is nonsense and needs to come into the 21st century and to that I ask you this – Wasn’t the world a better place before the 21st century?? I surely believe it was. There was a time when people had much better behavior. A time when cussing around a woman or children wasn’t the right thing to do and when kids didn’t have to worry about being shot or knifed by their classmates. I think the 21st century, having gotten so far away from religion, has become a much vulgar and violent time. Just a thought.

That’s not erring on the side of safety… that’s erring on the side of telling other people what to do…

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Actually Ryan C, it surely did.

It is unfortunate that the same people who would deprive Notre Dame of the right to free speech, try to use the Constitution to justify their anti-abortion stance, claiming that Roe vs Wade was unconstitutional. Free speech and other constitutional protections are only right when they support their narrow minded views of life.
I remeber when Jack Kennedy was running for President, Roman Prelates were all over the place assuring people that they would never interfere in politics.

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote “Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?”)

“Actually Ryan C, it surely did.”
Sorry JD, there was no perfect time period.
Indeed many parts of the past, we would find abhorrent even within the last 50 years.
So I have to ask what is a bigger waste of time?
Reminiscing about a time that never existed
or
Seeking a return to those non existent times?

I am forever grateful that I am no longer a member of the Catholic Church.

Between his television appearances, trying to save the economy and sending video-tapped messages of peace to Iran, you’d think the president would be a bit too busy to give university commencement speeches.

Every year the percentage of people in this country rejecting organized religion goes up. After reading the comments I understand why.

Notre Dame deserves this, ever since they played Mich State for a tie some forty years ago.

I’ve never quite understood the philosophy of neoconservative Republicans who preach limited Government playing a role in people’s lives, yet insist on inserting themselves into an issue that is a highly personal decision which should be just between a woman, her Doctor, her God and her family and is none of the Government’s business.

I’m a Catholic and this is CRAZY. Obama is the best thing to happen to this country in years – he worries about children in this country who go to bed hungry every night, who don’t have a chance to get to college, who struggle in lives of poverty. You people are as extremist as the Extreme Right Holy Rollers – frighteningly thick headed.

Let us not forget that the Catholic religion is for excommunicating a mother who by procuring an abortion of her little girl raped from the age of 6 by her stepfather and bearing twins at the age of 9 years, saved her daughter’s life. And we dare laugh at and ridicule the Islamic religion for their absurd and evil delusions?
Posted by: Tensai
Tensai, The Catholic Church does believe abortion is a sin but it does not excommunicate because of it – especially in this country. We have a little thing called confession that generally absolves one of their sins. Stop spreading lies and misinformation.

However if one types American Catholic Organization into google they should find it.
Posted by: Ryan C
I didn’t know that. Thanks for the tip.

I am really amused by the agenda of these left wing. Funny how they fight to save the earth and yet they want to kill the babies. Those who were lucky to live will be drowned by debt. So who do you want to live in this world that you are trying to protect? you are really funny!

“I didn’t know that. Thanks for the tip.”
It can be a little annoying but the rule of deleting all links is applied without prejudice.
Even links to other abc articles are deleted.
So in the future while posting here just give an article name or org name and tell people to google.

I wish Jesus would come back and just settle this mess…

Of course a pro-abortion person should not speak at a Catholic College!! How obsurd. Live with it!

Too many people have been sipping the kool-aid. When it comes to women’s reproductive rights, the mother-to-be is not cutting up or destroying her own body… she is cutting up (dismembering) her own unborn child. It is her own flesh and blood baby, with all of his or her potential and a totally different DNA than hers. So far, 62,000 people, (not 3) have signed the petition to stop Obama from speaking at Notra Dame. ( and the list is growing). This is a picture of an aborted baby by saline solution… with his little burned skin. If you can view this and still say it’s a woman’s body, then there is something seriously wrong with your thinking.

If you support abortion by your actions (voting for abortion, or inacting laws to the such) or say that you believe women have the right to choose.. YOU ARE AN ABORTIONIST.. plan and simple.. It does not matter what you say from your mouth.. for instance.. Obama can say he is a Christian till he turns blue in the face..but if he does not follow Christ.(who is against Abortion) HE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN. Judge the Fruit (action) not the Voice.. Him saying he is a Christian and standing up for non christian views is called a Hypocrit! and Notre Dame is also, if the Preach one thing and allow another.

IT SEEMS TO ME THERE IS A CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CATHOLIC.
IF YOU PROFESS TO FOLLOW CATHOLICISM IT DOES MEAN THAT YOU ACCEPT THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH.
IT IS MORE THAN JUST BEING BAPTIZED AS A BABY AND PERHAPS ATTENDING CHURCH ON EASTER. THE QUESTION IS DO YOU HAVE A REALATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND ACCEPT THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH. ONE OF THOSE IS THE SANCTITY OF LIFE. ONE CANNOT GET AROUND IT.
RESPECTFULLY MANY “PRO CHOICE CATHOLICS”
ARE DECEIVED, MISINFORMED AND QUITE FRANKLY “CATHOLICS” IN NAME ONLY. IF YOU SUPPORT ABORTION THATS YOUR CHOICE, BUT PLEASE DON’T CALL YOURSELF A CATHOLIC OR A CHRISTIAN THE CHURCH IS VERY CLEAR ON THEIR STAND. YOUR FAITH IS NOT LIKE AN ALA CART MENU OF PICKING AND CHOOSING WHAT YOU “THINK” SUITS YOU.

“I am really amused by the agenda of these left wing. Funny how they fight to save the earth and yet they want to kill the babies. ”
Funny how neoconservatives don’t won’t Government interfering in their lives. Only a woman’s because she can’t make those decisions for herself….

Tempest,
By your logic, anyone who has ever voted for any war time president, as well as those presidents themselves are murderers, hypocrites and anti-Christians, as Christ was clearly against the taking of life. Look folks, the right to abortion in this country is legal! Just as is the right to free speech, the right to own firearms, the right to drink, so on and so forth. Maybe we should just all accept these as our rights and stop running each other down when they choose to excersise their constitutional rights..?

“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).

“I am really amused by the agenda of these left wing. Funny how they fight to save the earth and yet they want to kill the babies.
***************************************
Funny how some will then turn around and say those same babies are not my responsibility. How they vote against health care, education, min. wage, condoms, birth control ( and complaign about ther bab factories). How they complain about the cost of save delivery, or any other aid that might be delivered to those same babies.

Eric,
That is by my logic. you see the difference between wartime Murder and Abortion.. is the Right to Choose.. The Baby had no choice but to be aborted by a mother who had a choice to abort.. War is different. two countries go to War and Choose as a collective to go to war.. Just like a prisoner chooses to commit a crime, actually in most States a minimum of 2 crimes for the Death Penalty. You see in all scenerios it was the BABY that had no Choice. therefore the only Murder I see is to the innocent, the baby. By the way, I am a veteran. And defended your rights in at least 2 wars.. you can say Thank You now.

It sounds like a lot of you think Obama should boycott the Catholic Notre Dame, and not honor it by speaking there.

There is a wide range of views among Catholics. 55% of Catholics voted for Obama.
A conservative Catholic group certainly has the right to object to Obama’s or anyone ele’s position on anything they wish, but it is irresponsible for ABC News to headline this as “Catholics Face offf Against Obama,” as if that group spoke for all Catholics.
A more appropriate headline would have been “Conservative Catholic Group Opposes Obama’s Views.” That group does not speak for all Catholics or even, probably, most Catholics.

More importantly, are they protesting Obama or the Teleprompter? It is really not necessary to send Obama but the Teleprompter is a must.

Tempest,
Thank you for serving our country. I mean that. (Sometimes it is hard to tell when people on these boards are being sarcastic). I never served myself, but I have the highest amount of respect for those who serve. Each of my grandfathers served in WWII and I am very proud of that. I apologize if my disagreement with you has come across as offensive.

If Obama could for once not be self-serving he should refuse the invitation,
so graduation day at Notre Dame will not be a big circus.
And while he’s at it he can resign from the presidency too.

This man ‘o’ is not the president for all of us. What a farce that he would speak at Notre Dame..He will be laughing at all Catholics if he gets away with this. The more I hear about him the more I find him disgusting.

The more I hear about him the more I find him disgusting.
Posted by: josephanne | Mar 24, 2009 6:14:44 PM
Joe – you know there is one thing that is still great about our ‘free country’ – you can leave it anytime you want…

Catholics have a right to oppose abortion and to question whether it is appropriate for a Catholic university to award an honorary degree to a man who is a major proponent of the right to abort. On the other hand, the Catholic church should not get so ensnared in the political debate about abortion. It would be better for the church to declare abortion a sin and preach that Catholics should not have abortions, without trying to tell non-
Catholics what to do. For example, Catholics can preach against extramarital relations, but it would be ridiculous to declare sex outside of marriage illegal.

Eric, I am not offended. and thank you for kind words.. I did want to make a clear assertion that it is the Baby thet has not had a Choice…My belief is that if Obama by his actions chooses to set up law that promote his ProChoice agenda.. then he is not really a Christian. no matter what he says. just like if you say your a Christian and you practice witchcraft, choice to be gay, practice idolatry, you are not a Christian.. by very difinition Christianity is following Christ.. not just saying you follow but actually following.. Our President however, is a Hypocrit… I also, think it is funny that the liberal left is all about the Prochoice for Women.. but they say Gays have no Choice.. Odd! Women who get an abortion should be Spaded.. they lose the God given right to have Children.

The world would be a better place if religion was wiped out of our minds. There is a higher power but it is not catholic or muslim or jewish or anything else it just is.

How many of you people know the effects of abortion, the statistics, the logic behind why the Catholic Church believes what it does on the issue? I think many of us have a misconception about those who receive abortions and where the Church stand and if we read some of the information out there about the issue, more people would understand where the Catholic Church is coming from. Even as a Catholic, I have read from both sides (believe it or not) and the what you may find out is amazing. And we all aren’t as bad as you make us out to be..

I’m from South Bend the home of the embarrassing Notre Dame. I find it disgusting how they all drink themselves silly every weekend… heck we just had two students shot at because they were so drunk they weren’t sure where they lived and tried to enter the wrong home…BUT by golly they don’t want Obama here because it’s against their morals! Go figure. Everyone else in this area wants Obama to come… maybe he could just skip Notre Dame and come give the commencement at a local high school. FYI local people have admitted that the so called “petition” is flawed. One guy said on a local news channel that he signed it six times as Sarah Palin – not to mention several times as other names. So… it’s all just a big deceitful hoax by the self righteous hypocritical catholics in the area.

Tempest, are you equating a woman’s choice regarding abortion with a gay person’s choice to be gay? Apples & oranges anyone?
Jecath, could you give us a Readers Digest version so we don’t have to spend several hours trying to divine what you’re talking about? Thanks.

LOL! Do these people have any idea how many “yes, Dear” Catholics there are out there???? Please!!! how many catholics actually dont have sex before marriage????? Please. Not one i know of! How many catholics dont usebirth control? ZERO! Speaking at this college is a honor??? maybe, but how dare you say it’s a bigger honor than being president of the UNITED STATES??? are you kidding me? what narcisitic unrealistic morons! I”m Catholic. I’d be thrilled if my son or daughter had the president of the United states, a historic one at that, speak at their commencement. How many Catholics did NOT sign that petition???? a whole lot more than who did, that’s for sure!

True Lincoln quote:
In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Saviour gave to the world was communicated through this book.
Words on being presented with a Bible, reported in the Washington Daily Morning Chronicle (8 September 1864)

Tempest, I got news for you, the ONLY one who can REALLY definewhat a christian is, is Christ. ONLY Christ knows if a particular group IS following what HE intended for us to follow, a nd considering CHrist NEVER told a single girl, or women to carry her pregnancy toterm, even though abortion hasbeen around as longas human being, before CHRist’s time, after, during…Christ NEVER made a single statement about it. SO why would we think HE wants every girl to bring every pregnancy to term???? I see no link between Him and abortion and frankly,I don’t care what the pope says about it. Or any MAN. Christ can speak for Himself and He has. So I say I am aChristian and I am prochoice and NOBODY has the right ot judge whether or not I’m a Christian, than Christ.

“this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man”…it is written by men, and is filled with their interpretations and their ideas and their beliefs. It is as flawed as each and every human is, and it is filled with their opinions as much as every book is. That is why there are so many contradictions. Everyone has a better idea. IN the day, it was a huge deal that someone was literate. If it was written, oh boy, that’s HUGE! since only so many people can read adn write. So you think because a book is ancient it MUST be God’s word??? bEcuase somebody said so who wrote it???? nadthe ones who say they are speaking for God now, the ones who would now pick up a pen and author a human manual for behavior, would you follow them? and their book? Of course not! Only the OLD book is the word of God??? why? Because ignorant anceint people thought so? You are so niave. I do believe there is a higherforce, but youdont need a book. An atheist is just as honest as a God fearing person,studies have been done. There is a moral compass in all of us. God is in all of us, really. You dont need a book to knowwhat is right and wrong. You need to listen to your heart, to be sincerely honest with yourself as to whether you are being selfish or not. Nothing has caused more wars in this world, more fighting, than arguments over who’s book is the ‘word of God”.

Ad says averageg irish iq 112. right.

I’m sad because this is my graduation and no one is going to care about the 1500 kids graduating in ND’s class of 2009, just about Obama’s views on stem cell research and abortion. What a sad thought, the last time I will see Notre Dame’s campus as a student, it will be littered with “graphic abortion photos”

Catholics should be worried, very worried, about a backlash from such organised petitions against our President. There’s a very good reason why our Founding Fathers insisted on a seperation of church and state. As an individual you have every right to protest Obama’s speech at Notre Dame. But doing so as a religious block you run a serious threat of backlash against your faith. Many pro-Obama Catholics blogging on this site are aware of this possibility. Read what these good folks are saying. There are 65,000,000 Obama supporters out there and we don’t take lightly these organized petitions in the name of any established church.

Tempest—You have your beliefs,fine I can respect that.Just don’t try to impose those beliefs on the unwilling.

Nicole—-I hope you don’t mind if I attempt to answer your question.As an agnostic,I won’t foreclose the possibility of a creator.If there was a creator,what makes you so certain he didn’t just put things in motion and then walk away?What makes you think he has a vested interest in his creations’ behavior?What makes you think he would have created a heaven and hell?
I know your answer will be faith but I wanted to state that you can believe in a creator and not buy in to the religious fairy tales.

I w ould be outraged if I was Obama. I would decline if I were him. Let Notre Dame be a stupid hick second teir celebration of idiocy school. I would not honor them with his presence! He isthe president of the United States! Let them have Pat Robertson or some idiot savant. Great. Great experience for their graduates. Show them what stupidity will do foryou. you COULD have had the presidnet of the United states speak to you, now, there’s some nun from Africa who will bore you for a few hours inthe hot sun. Screw them! Go to COlumbia or some other top tier school and forget this! This is a disgrace. This makes Norte Dame look m ore like a hick school than a world class learning institution.

Congratulation to the Graduating Class of 2009 at the University of Notre Dame!!!!!!!!!

keep that red pencil ready

I hope he gives a fantastic address — and passes out free condoms!! :-)

No,Sammy, many of us supported him,in part, because he is pro-choice.

Does sepration of church and state mean anything anymore? If you don’t believe in abortion, teach your children to make good descisions leave the law making to the law makers.

Notre Dame wants to honor Obama for his leadership?
I think they forgot who is really leading the country–Pelosi.

“The one where it says “seperation of church and state”?”
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Hope that helps.

From tjp612′s post on 3/24 @ 7:43:05p ——— In reference to POTUS speaking @ ND “…Again, another instance where Obama has chosen to insert himself in a position in which he creates wedges within society.” HUH? Do you think someone in the White House insisted to ND the President must address their graduating class? That was an invitation extended by the University to the freakin’ President, for cryin’ out loud. If you’re unhappy about the match of speaker and site, you need to take that up with those who invited him. (I know manners aren’t what they used to be, but geez! If you invited someone to your home (even though you both knew you don’t agree on everything, even in important philosophical areas) and they accepted, you’d rescind the invitation? That’s not only un-Catholic and un-Christian, but just plain rude and stupid.

@ tiredgirlie,
“If you’re unhappy about the match of speaker and site, you need to take that up with those who invited him.”
Your point is valid. I’m not happy with ND either and this Irish-Catholic is taking his support elsewhere.

Ryan,
Still waiting on those popularity poll numbers comparing O’bama and GWB…

“Still waiting on those popularity poll numbers comparing O’bama and GWB…”
Gimme a break.
I had to actually look up the polling numbers vs quoting a right wing meme (that’s a couple week old now)

The President of Notre Dame invited President Obama. 55% of Catholics voted for President Obama…..the other 45% are just disgruntled McCain supporters. There are good reasons why our Founding Fathers insisted on the seperation of Church & State….and those of you who are petition supporters are one of those reasons. Thank you Founding Fathers for your eternal wisdom.

PS…for all those Catholics (petition sighers) who supported John McCain…..he cheated on, then divorced his crippled first wife to marry a beer heiress with $100 million in the bank. How do you reconcile this fact with your Catholic beliefs? Would you have protested McCain giving a speech at Notre Dame? Probably not.

“C’mon, Ryan…you can do better than that…that’s a pretty loose response you have provided…Besides, if The One is so wonderful and GWB is so bad, it shouldn’t even be close, should it? Just a thought.”
ROFLMAO!
I prove you wrong, tell you where to find the numbers and you change the subject.
You were oh so sure of yourself quoting that lame Rasmussen article.
Let that be a lesson never to trust right wing media without doing your own research.

Ryan,
Here you go, courtesy of Gallup (notice, not Rasmussen nor other “meme”):
Barack Obama’s Most Recent Weekly Approval Rating Average”
63% (Mar 16-22, 2009)
George W. Bush Presidential Job Approval
58% (Mar 9-11, 2001)
The honeymoon is over…America is beginning to figure this guy out.

@ Ryan,
“You were oh so sure of yourself quoting that lame Rasmussen article.
Let that be a lesson never to trust right wing media without doing your own research.”
Huh? I never read the “Rasmussen article” – I was pulling up Gallup numbers when you were typing your oh-so-witty response! Try again…

“Huh? I never read the “Rasmussen article” – I was pulling up Gallup numbers when you were typing your oh-so-witty response! Try again…”
Wow you didn’t even read the article?
You just heard Rush blabbing about it?
That’s just sad.

“The overarching point is that the honeymoon is over…I don’t think ANY of us (Obama supporters and non-supporters alike) would’ve thought that we’d even be having the conversation that these poll numbers would even be close at this 60+ days into O’s administration!”
How is the honeymoon over when he’s enjoying 60%+ approval ratings, hnealry 70% favorables, and since taking office has seen consumer confidence and right direction numbers make their first improvements in 6 months?
And who is having the honeymoon is over conversation?
Why its right wingers who didn’t like him in the first place!
Would you like to know how many times FoxNews alone has teased that the honeymoon is over (including Jan 21st)?
Start thinking for yourself and stop parroting the loathsome right wing media.

tjp612 – You’re funny. I think the “overarching point” is that you cahllenged Ryan C to back up his argument with facts and you were surprised when he did it.

mensarino-your questions are the same ones I struggle to answer on a daily basis. God may very well have been a “watch maker” and once things were set in motion, simply walked away to begin something else. I find Heaven & Hell difficult to believe in because maintaining an existence of ‘good’ should not be motivated by reward or fear. I do not practice any particular religion, just faith in something greater than man alone… hence my question if she believed in God. Fairy tale or not, belittling another’s faith to justify angry political rhetoric only demonstrates ignorance… even if quoting a Dawkins and B Franklin.

as me you will regret paying those huge taxes.
Posted by: Steve
==========================================
Ah. poor, poor, poor, poor man.
Making more than $250,000.00, and belonging to the top 5% in this country, and then you have to pay a few extra dollars. It is surely going to ruin your entire life, your family, and your entire future.
Why won’t you Go Galt?

Outside of the 60%+ (and dropping) approval ratings
=======================================
Actually, his approval rose since last week.
CBSNews Poll: 64 Approve – 20 Disapp (last week it was 62-24; a gain of 6 points)
Gallup: 63-27 (last week 62-27; a gain of 1 points)

This existance is a mistery, religions claim to have the patent on God, they have it all figure out, a preposterous idea considering the size of the universe.
What major religions are is about dogma and control… and trampling over women’s rights…. think about it.
During the inquisition over 10 million persons were killed by the Catholic Church, mostly women who were the deposotories of the healing knowledge, not the men. Western women have never recoverd properly from this hollocaust… The Catholic church has never recant of this iniquious act.
The Catholic Church ban on condoms, abortion, plan B, etc. ends up making life more difficcult for women… think about it.

pt- Bush was often protested at commencement addresses.
Laura Bush was invited to speak at UCLA in 2002, and when students protested, she declined. Imagine that happening to Michelle Obama.
>>>>>>>>>>
The difference is the “Students protested”. It is the STUDENTS who are graduating. If the STUDENTS protest you speaking at something for the STUDENTS, then yes, decline. But if they STUDENTS want someone to speak at THEIR gradaution, then by all means, accept.

I love how liberals only defense is….that’s what you get from Bush, or that’s what you get from 8 years of republicans. That’s all you have. Even the AP finally declared tonight on their fact check that democrats controlled congress the last 2 years of the Bush administration and congress is who actually write bills and vote on them along with the senate, the president either signs or vetos. You aren’t persuading anyone to your misinformed side when you cry about Bush, it’s getting old. Find something new, anything to say in response to posts. ANYTHING!

Jecath, I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic, I was trying to figure out which side of the abortion debate you’re on. If your references were to the fact that the Bible doesn’t even address abortion & Catholics (among others) draw their anti-abortion stance from “Thou shalt not kill”, that’s your prerogative. The fact that many of those same people don’t equate the same commandment with captial punishment, collateral damage losses, etc. makes no sense to me.
I have read plenty of spiritual & scriptural references & opinions & have learned there was a time the commonly held belief was that male fetuses didn’t gain a soul until they were 40 days old while females didn’t get a soul until they were 80 days old.
The bottom line is when we base our beliefs on writings that are inherently incapable of authentication, all we have our beliefs, not facts, & to try to force those beliefs on others is wrong.

“You aren’t persuading anyone to your misinformed side when you cry about Bush”
In case you have noticed…it’s related:
Banking fall-out and lack of regulation from previous administration – the “ownership society”
Iraq
Gutanamo Bay
Afghanistan
Iran – thanks to previous saber rattling
New Orleans and Galveston still messes from Katrina and Ike
And we’re not supposed to mention Bush?
Not to bring into play what was inherited by the past administration is like someone being in the ICU but you can’t bring up how they got there!

“I noticed you left the precipitous drop in the stock market since (a.) The One’s nomination, (b.) The election, (c.) The Inauguration.”
Because its an idiotic right wing meme that fear of Obama raising taxes led to the economic collapse ignoring actual facts to create a mythic timeline.
But it works on the gullible like yourself.
“Outside of the 60%+ (and dropping) approval ratings, I’m curious where you get the data for your assertions.”
Consumer confidence figures are available from several pollsters as are favorable/unfavorable, right direction/wrong direction.
Real Clear Politics even has a collection of these polls and if you can’t find them there you can try
So let me repeat.
Consumer confidence and positive direction for the country numbers have been rising since Obama took office.
His job approval rating is around 60%.
His favorable rating is in the high 60′s nearly 70%.
And in the face of those facts, you claim Obama is unpopular and that the honeymoon is over.
Who told you that?
Oh yeah the right wing media.

Didn’t BO do really well with Evangelicals and Roman Catholics?
Is that irony…or something else?

It is so hypocritical of the Notre Dame Catholics to criticize our president.
They are intolerant, when their blueprint for life, the bible, teaches tolerance, and love for our fellow men.
They are giving religion a bad name.

It seems illogical to use Catholicism as a premise for an argument essentially advocating exclusion. Acceptance, forgiveness, inclusion. These are–or should be–the central tenants of our religion. Of course, so is the dignity of human life.
I do not think Mr. Obama is an advocate of the act of abortion–any more so than past speakers were advocates of, for instance, capital punishment. And from what I gather there was not much protesting of capital punishment-supporting speakers. Or was there?
If you believe that life begins with conception, then both abortion and capital punishment are clearly human-killing strategies. I don’t understand the dichotomy that embraces or disdains (as we should) one and not the other. If you rejected presidents who did not conform strictly to church teachings, you would have never had any president at that podium.