Will the Public Want to Partner with Wall Street?

Bad, bad, bad idea! It’s next to impossible to do, especially seeing what the backlash of the bonus’ is doing. Many forget that their base salary is very minimal and it is the bonus that provides them the means. If that gets taken away, which it seems likely considering O’s policies to appease his base, the incentive to keep Wall Street at the top of the world economic pyramid is gone. There are plenty of other places to create wealth and our sociey is based on your ability to create wealth to a great extent. People have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on education for these positions. Plus he’s also going to start losing some great Dr’s. Again, yrs of self-sacrifice + debt to thehilt for minimal reward = failure of creating incentive to do great things! O got ahead because he was motivated to earn, so did his wife…It’s a shame.

Here is where Obama’s lack of leadership is showing up!
His administration’s “plan” supposedly counts on private investing, yet he stood by and watched the fools like Barney Frank destroy the private sectors confidence that they can invest without worrying that idiots like Frank will “decide” when they have made too much money.
Obama felt it was more important to fake outrage at something he already knew was going to happen and then sit on the sidelines as Frank & others went on a witch hunt!
Personally I wish Liddy would have stood up and told Frank to shove it. He should have asked the congressman if he would like top switch chairs for a few hours. I’m sure all of America would love to see the biggest hypocrit in congress (Well, He & Rangell are both running a great campaign for who’s the biggest one!) have to sit there and answer questions about his own involvement in this mess.
Also, Mr Liddy could have asked all the members of the panel if they think NOW it might be a bit more prudent to slow down and start reading these bills. Especially since it seems that congress may not be writing them anymore.
After all this incredibly foolish display by both the President & Congress last week, is it really a surprise that private investors would balk at joining this effort now?
Also, is it really any wonder why no one knows where Tarp money or other bailout monies have gone? These idiots cannot even keep track of their own legislation, let alone Billions & Billions of dollars!
Do all of you who want the government to control healthcare still feel comfortable with that now?
While our systems are not perfect, this past week does indeed illustrate why government should NOT be allowed to get to big and gain too much control. They will in the end only make it worse!

I suppose that we have to try everything before “nationalization” (taking over even the big bankrupt banks, cleaning them up, and re-privatizing them, just like the FDIC does dozens of times a year), but it’s discouraging to see the amount of time and money that it is taking to satisfy those who insist socialization is evil.

If those bank employees will sabatoge, or stand by and watch failure because of those bonuses, they need to be fired. if they had scruples they would quit.

We have to get Washington out of Wall Street and vice versus. Wall Street needs tighter regulations and put an end to unregulated securities. Everything should regulated.

The Goverment Has to Crack down on Wall St and stop the GREED And running a Muck, REGULATION COMMONSENSE RULES Is seriously Needed Restore what Bush and Republicans took away REGULATION!! No more Greed!

Angie – Destructive regulations were always there via the Keynesian Federal Reserve’s interventions into the free market. What do you think happens when interest rates are too low for decades? You get the giant Ponzi scheme that is our whole economy. Forget Madoff which buy the way the SEC was supposedly regulating. You guys like to think regulations are the answer and too a lesser extent they will help some things, but many regulations are very damaging for businesses to make profits. Sound money and having the market function as a result of supply and demand are the answers.

“Sound money and having the market function as a result of supply and demand are the answers.”
That all sounds very nice but it will only be true on the condition that sound investment decisions are made, certainly not the case in the years leading up to this crisis. If these firms are going to become too big to let fail, then the public wants to be protected from economic collapse if their executives blunder. Current public opinion favors more government oversight.

Concerned in OH:”What regulation did Bush and the Republicans take away? Specifically.”
What regulations did Bush – in charge of the enforcement branch – actually enforce properly? From Enron to Madoff? Specifically please.

Unfortunately, Congress’ actions with the bonus tax plan last week will militate AGAINST Geithner’s plan working. Even before Geithner gives his speech, that House legislation disincentivizes any private investors that might otherwise have stepped up to participate.
There need to be strong reassurances and confidence-building language coming out of the White House and Congressional Dems targeting potential private investors in this program. Right now, NONE of them trust this WH or Congress to not change the rules midstream, which is what the bonus bll did.
The Senate could send signals that it’s not going to go for the bonus tax legislation, and intend to find other means to get the bonus money back. Obama needs to stop his Wall Street demonization, as this is only keeping investors away from the Geithner plan. He’s got to get their trust and confidence, or this plan is dead on arrival.

Concerned in OH:”What regulation did Bush and the Republicans take away? Specifically.”
What regulations did Bush – in charge of the enforcement branch – actually enforce properly? From Enron to Madoff? Specifically please.
——————————-
jhw539,
Is there a problem answering the original question, or are you back to answering every question with “Well…what did Bush do?”
It is VERY evident that the Democrats & this administration CANNOT be trusted to write proper legislation for ANY kind of oversight or regulation! Last week was PROOF of that!
Bush had nothing to do with the Dems/Obama/Geithner screwup on the language of the “Stimulator”. You can try all the diversion tatics you want. They screwed it up, and then they let that buffoon barney Frank do his best McCarthy impersonation!
What a joke, Barney Frank demanding to know names!
The point now is no one trusts this administration or the Congress. It is going to be very difficult to get private money into this plan after that stupid grandstanding by Frank & that commitee.

Home sales went up 5.2% Percent In Feb Things are starting to Turn around It TAKES TIME!
MIKE C
The Bonuses AIG Received are not Just from the Stimulator But from the First Bailout that Bush/Paulson Gave. THEY ALL ARE AT FAULT! But Because Republicans Ran the Goverment for 14 Years and Bush for 8 they are more to Blame!

Can Somebody Help Me
Let Me Guess FOX NEWS Are taking the Aig Bailout Protesters and Saying its Towards the President? ah yes only at Faux news!

I thought that it was a pretty good report. Nice graphics.
Though maybe the Obama admin or someone should also put out some graphics to show what’s supposed to be going on in the various players’ heads in order for the new banking plan to work.
I guess the Dow likes it so far.
And I think Obama is trying to avoid a massive shock to the system by doing something more along the lines of what Krugman wants.
By the way economist Brad DeLong (in his blog “Grasping Reality With Both Hands”) disagrees with Krugman’s criticisms of Obama’s plan, and he almost always agrees with him, apparently.

Mike_C”jhw539,
Is there a problem answering the original question,”
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize only Republicans were allowed to ask open, misleading questions. My bad. Obviously I am here only to serve as your personal research service.

Mr. 0bama is deliberately worsening this crisis. I think its time to start impeachment proceedings against Mr. 0bama.
Posted by: Concerned in OH | Mar 23, 2009 9:30:12 AM
==============================
It’s time!!! Maybe we should be having impeachment parties instead of “Tea Parties”. Where do we start?

Huh:”The US economy has been one big Ponzi scheme since the Bretton Woods deal in 1971.”
A Ponzi scheme by definition creates no wealth. Look around you. Enormous wealth has been created in the last 38 years – the internet (invention and implementation funded by government “pork”), real buildings, real power plants, real cellular networks, real semiconductor fab plants, real factories, real universities, real airplane factories, real pharmaceutical manufacturers, real (if still inadequate) infrastructure. No question that the boom-bust cycle is still out of control, but calling the incredible wealth generation of the last thirty years a “ponzi scheme” is absurd. Wall Street shuffled paper, but the economy on the whole made the US the most prosperous nation in the world.
————————————–
jhw539 ,
On this we agree!

Can Somebody Help Me
Let Me Guess FOX NEWS Are taking the Aig Bailout Protesters and Saying its Towards the President? ah yes only at Faux news!
Posted by: Angie | Mar 23, 2009 10:58:42 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5000 protest against Obama in Cinny Oh
4000 protest against Obama in Orlando
2000 protest against Obama in St Louis
1500 in mesa Az, 1000 in lexington Ky, 200 in conn and calls for “dump Dodd”
now where is ABC, CBS, NBC? thei cover a little antiwar protest on the capitol steps
Journalism at it finest huh
Posted by: Can someone Help ME..Timmy TurboTax | Mar 23, 2009 10:54:41 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Angie:
The message from Timmy TurboTax, says it!!! Did you hear anything about these
protests on ABC, CBC, NBC or anyother news network. No matter what they were protesting…at least on FOX we get news.

jhw539 – Actually yeas and no. It has increased the value of our real estate and the stock prices, but that is not real wealth. Real wealth is production capacity and savings. Last I checked most of our jobs were overseas, and we have negative savings so don’t kid yourself.

jhw539 – I do call it a Ponzi scheme. A much bigger one that the concept of fractional reserve banking. I am not totally against the latter.

Jake:
The argument is that by co-investing public and private, Geithner’s plan incentivizes the private sector to bid aggressively and engage in price discovery. This will protect the Government from overpaying for these assets, Treasury says.
Response:
The argument is based on a false premise – there is no “co-investing” going on. That term presumes that the private capital investment is substantial – its not.
for every 1 dollar the privates put up, tarp puts up 1 dollar to match, and, wait for it, the government loans 12 dollars as well on behalf of the private investor!…. that’s 12 to 1 leverage, and certainly not “co-investing”

Mike_C:”My point was valid. You chose to avoid the answer by diverting away to blame Bush…again.”
I actually am not bothering to wade into the Blame Bush game other than to point out the meaninglessness of Concerned’s question. My answer to his question, that enforcement of regulations shows de facto rescinding of the regulations, is about as far in depth as I am willing to go. The election is over, and other than the last Bush Senators up in 2010, I expect him to recede into history.
“Wall Street shuffled paper, but the economy on the whole made the US the most prosperous nation in the world.
————————————–
jhw539 ,
On this we agree!”
The US is the best country in the world and while we fight over how to make it better I think that must be an accepted commonality. (I do have a couple friends who became so disillusioned under Bush that they honestly didn’t agree; they have just finished the multi-year process of emigrating to Argentina – I can respect that too.)

Huh:”jhw539 – By your logic, why don’t we print everybody a million bucks. Then we will have prosperity, right? ”
My logic dealt with REAL WEALTH, not green paper. If you don’t think this is a nation awash in real wealth of the sort I listed, you need to travel outside of the first world a bit.
Our roads, billion-dollar tunnels, multi-billion dollar semiconductor fabs, and billions of square feet of homes (luxurious by even first world, never mind third, standards) will not evaporate regardless of how little the green paper is worth.

Home sales went up 5.2% Percent In Feb Things are starting to Turn around It TAKES TIME!
MIKE C
The Bonuses AIG Received are not Just from the Stimulator But from the First Bailout that Bush/Paulson Gave. THEY ALL ARE AT FAULT! But Because Republicans Ran the Goverment for 14 Years and Bush for 8 they are more to Blame!
————————————-
Angie and her incredible “fuzzy” logic!
First, since no one seems to be able to say where any of this money has gone, how can you possibly say some of this is comming from the FIRST bailout monies??
Since it seems like the ability ot pull this one off came because Obama & the Dems RAMMED the “Stimulator” through without bothering to Check on the language that actually ended up in the bill for bonuses in companies like AIG,
THIS ONE IS ON OBAMA & THE DEMOCRATS!
Of course, it may take 2 weeks of congressional hearings to find out exactly WHO actually wrote that language!
Home Sales going up is good, no question, and the market going up today is good too. Recovery still teeters on this bank plan though! They didn’t even let Geithner go in front of cameras this time! And he still has more of the plan to announce!

jhw539 – “Real Wealth”? All of those so-called factories will be empty much like our houses are now. I don’t need to travel anywhere else to see what is happening. We are in debt up to our eyeballs, and it has caught up to us.

“there is no “co-investing” going on. That term presumes that the private capital investment is substantial – its not.
“for every 1 dollar the privates put up, tarp puts up 1 dollar to match, and, wait for it, the government loans 12 dollars as well on behalf of the private investor!…. that’s 12 to 1 leverage, and certainly not ‘co-investing’”
How dumb does the “Obama” organization think the unrich — who vastly, believe it or not, outnumber those who’ve banded together as financial institutions — ARE?
When the government GIVES the money to a “private” investor — corporations who reap any profit while risking nothing — the “private” investors are simply acting as bag-persons for the administration.
Too darn bad the “Democrats” have sold out to the er mob. It’s not gonna end well.
Hurray to Steve Kroft for calling The CHANGEling on His unseemly giggling about what His masters have wrought.

Always remember. The US prosperity is all based on the use of the government’s credit card issued by China. If the US defaults, China gets to take over all the assets. Don’t worry. The faces will remain familiar, just the name on the deed will change. The United States Of America PTD will remain in full production with it’s home office in Bejing.

Parallax View:”So now your asking the well to do, because everyone else is broke, private investor to buy up these bad loans after threatening to increase future capital gains taxes/investment taxes and punish the ones who managed their money smartly…. Why? What is the incentive? I see none…”
Personally, I’m not going to turn down earning $10,000 on my investments just because if tax rates were even lower I’d earn $10,300. It’s not like taxes are high now – they’re at a historic low. Reagan was a hero when his first round of tax cuts got them down to a 50% top bracket, and his second round eliminated the highest earner bracket entirely. If you don’t think life is good for the rich in this country (or even the upper middle class in the 33% bracket where I live quite comfortably) then you are blind.

A Ponzi scheme by definition creates no wealth.
————————————-
well tell barney madoff that .
you republicans and your “facts” will be the downfall of this nation . morons…

Why not just bury the toxic debt in Nevada?

jhw539 -Yes I do know some things about cleanrooms. I have procured parts from them. Both MEMS devices and PHEMT devices. I will not say what specific parts because I don’t want people to know my identity here. I have also traveled overseas. What good are factories if you can’t employ people. I guess if the Chinese come in here and buy up stuff, they may employ us like Honda or Toyota does. I am capable of learn’n.

jhw539…With all due respect, we do not yet know how high Obama and his Democratic House and Senate are going to raise taxes on investment gains.. The vast majority of people who have money have earned that status by hard work and investing wisely; furthermore, a number of those are senior citizens who acquired those monies after many many years of prudent investing. Either way, if you had it would you risk your efforts on, and let’s call it what it is bad loans, someone else mistakes and be on the hook for a huge future tax burden..Perhaps the only who would buy is foreign governments, scary if you think of the consequences and the reasoning behind such a move, or VERY LARGE corporations that could take advantage of the tax write off which brings us back to square one..People are not going to purchase these delinquent contracts like savings bonds and those that do..for what reason?

Posted by: Concerned in OH | Mar 23, 2009 1:52:22 PM
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thats the problem with you republicans ,you take a plain old fact and twist it to suit your purpose(s).
play semantics all you want ,its the republican/conniving way and youre addicted to it ,unfortunately.

jhw539 -Do want to give you some credit though. The potential commerce on that overpass does produce wealth, but we still have to eventually pay for the construction.

This morning after reading the new plan and listening to more of it on the TV I called my congressmen to tell her of my frustration with Washington. I told her that if the banks are to big to let fall then they are to big. Why don’t we consider this a monopoly on our financial system. Yet our government wants to spend more money that we do not have. If our government is bound to spend taxpayer dollars, stop paying for new airplanes, vacations, and bonuses. Put the money in the peoples hands. If they took the trillion dollars and gave it to families that make under $150,000 per year in the form of vouchers we would be on our way to recovery. Vouchers would only be good to pay off debt or a down payment on a house if they lost there house on foreclosure. Down payments can only be made if they are buying a foreclosed house. If families used the vouchers to pay off debt they would not have the tax right offs and would pay more in taxes. This would help pay the government debt back. After explaining this to her, her comment back was that it was a little after 9am in Washington and she did not want to listen to profanity out of me. Please call your congressman and let them know how you feel. You do not have to agree with me just tell them what you think. look them up on the internet and call them today. Your congressmen need to be accountable to you. If you call you will get the picture.

Over the past ten days, as the furor over AIG retention plan bonuses has focused on Sen. Chris Dodd and Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner, the White House has undertaken a PR offensive to protect the highest ranking Obama Administration official who was involved in the House and Senate negotiations over the stimulus bill, in which the AIG waiver language was inserted.
“Right now, you get the feeling this is all about protecting [White House Chief of Staff] Rahm Emanuel,” says a former Treasury Department lawyer, who worked in that department’s counsel’s office on the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) before joining a D.C.-based law firm in February. “At the time, we were led to believe there were basically three or four people from the Administration at the table when the final deals were cut and one of them was Emanuel.”
Informal advisers to Geithner are growing increasingly frustrated, they say, that Geithner is being held up as the straw man for the public anger over the bonuses. “Just over the weekend you saw a new guy added to the target list, [White House economics adviser Larry] Summers,” says a longtime Geithner colleague at the New York Fed. “You have Dodd, Geithner, Summers, but there were other, more senior political people involved in this mess, and their names aren’t being mentioned. Why isn’t anyone asking Rahm Emanuel, ‘What meetings were you in?’ ‘What did you and the President know and when did you know it?’ Tim has some culpability, but he’s not the guy who signed off on the Dodd language. He wasn’t that empowered to do something like that.”
Yesterday, Obama supporter and New York Times columnist Frank Rich fingered Summers as a key player in the AIG bonus mess. “Summers is so tone-deaf that he makes Geithner seem like Bobby Kennedy,” Rich wrote.
Summers currently serves as head of the National Economic Council in the White House, and has been mentioned as someone who might be forced to return to the Secretary of the Treasury post he once held in the Clinton Administration should Geithner not survive the political storm he finds himself in.
It isn’t just Rich, though, who has placed Summers in the center of the controversy. Last week, Sen. Ron Wyden, who was led to believe that language he was inserting into the stimulus bill, which would have heavily taxed such payouts as the retention bonuses, told reporters that it was the “Obama economic team” that stripped his and Sen. Olympia Snowe’s provision from the bill. When he was asked about who he dealt with during the February negotiations over his language, he said, “Secretary Geithner, Larry Summers, and I’ll leave it at that.” He declined to name other names, though he indicated to reporters present that he was aware of others in the negotiations.
Senior Democrat leadership aides in both the House and Senate, however, insist that both Emanuel and Office of Management and Budget Director Peter Orszag were present at the meetings where the decision was made to strip out the bonus taxation language and insert the Dodd waiver.
Further complicating the situation is that at the time of the negotiations, Geithner had in his possession Treasury Department memorandums outlining November negotiations between the department’s counsel’s office and AIG officials over the very retention bonuses that were preserved in the final bill.

Mildred
Sadly But Fox News plays on the Not so Intelligent!

The truth is ,madoff created TONS of wealth…ALL FOR HIMSELF ,JUST LIKE TRICKLE UP REAGANOMICS ,INSURANCE OR ANY OTHER PONZI SCHEME.
one or 2 or 3 (or a small demographic) get uber rich ; they actuallt “created” their wealth out of zilcho i.e. started with 0 ended up billionaires and you know the rest of the story , the schemers make off with all the loot while the majority get taken for a crappy ride …sound familiar?
REPUBLICAN TOUTED DEREGULATION ALLOWED PONZI SCHEMES TO FLOURISH UNDER WHOSE WATCH? WHO HAD THE VETO PEN? WHO WAS THE MAJORITY IN THE SENATE AND HOUSE FOR ALMOST 8 CONSECUTIVE YEARS?
so now tell me again how ponzi schemes dont create wealth? you are spinning hard now dude…

cre·ate – to make or bring into existence something new
thats nice ,but not particularly illuminating as i already knew that .
however , your use of the word “create” is partisan semantic peddling ,fooling the fools only.
semantics – the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings
ok dude? sheesh ,what is with you republican knuckle heads,your double speak is exposed ,go sit in the corner while we adults govern.
Im just waiting for defintion of “is”….LOL

It amasses me how we through stones at each other as to wether we are democrat or republican and who is right or wrong. Corporate greed and corruption in our government is worse than it has ever been. Our government is know longer listening to its citizens. Both republican and democrats should be outraged at what is going on. We are loosing our government.
We all need to hold our representatives accountable.
If we continue to argue about right or left and do not focus on the real problem we will all loose everything. Corruption is the problem and money will not solve this problem, only character.

“We’re looking for supporters,” said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event’s organizers. “We’re not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army.”
The volunteers are part of Organizing for America, the same grassroots, national network credited in large part with Obama’s quick rise from obscurity to president. Birmingham and 11 other sites statewide were part of a national push this weekend by Organizing for America to trumpet Obama’s spending proposal.
Across the metro area, volunteers gave their opinions about why Obama’s plan is good for the country’s future. Then they asked those willing to sign a pledge of support for the budget. Supporters’ e-mail addresses and other contact information were collected, to keep people engaged and to recruit more volunteers.

“We’re not looking for a fight. That’ll come later, when we have an army.”
Huh? Excuse me? What does that mean? Any reporters out there ready to ask about deploying these people out on the streets to strongarm people while they build their army?

When I can find an adult liberal, I will..In the mean time, we moderate Dems, Inds and Repubs must keep common sense into the discussion………….dude< LOL
Posted by: Parallax View | Mar 23, 2009 4:24:02 PM-
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it doesnt really matter what you say ,or what i type.
the facts are :
i am in the majority ,you are not.
that means your party is inconsequential ,at the moment at least and probably for a while too.
so shhhhhhhh please ,unless you have some facts or something constructive to add, otherwise continue to chuckle at yourself as needed, and we liberals will force feed you and the rest of the republican mob on new ultra liberal laws that wont ever be sunsetted .
THANK YOU LORD FOR MR OBAMA!!!

Whenever you hear Goldman Sachs officials saying they do not apologize for their ill-gotten gifts received from the Bush administration from the Goldman Sach tool Hank Paulson, just think of Cheney’s “So” comment. The arrogance of those sociopaths!

people shold look at the blue state cities, how are they faring? even tho Arnold is gov-he has a Dem majority. the state is broke; calif and NY is a model of socialism ideas. it is not working, the states is broke! we can not afford socialism…
those who voted for Obama, thanks, you just voted for a narcisstic, giggling (as evidenced by 60 minutes interview) incomplete who would rather keep his popstar status than actually govern who is going to weaken and destroy the great united states of america. i don’t w ant socalism, i don;t want european life, i want the american life. Obama is teaching people to hate american success, to hate defending for our country.

Re: “even tho Arnold is gov-he has a Dem majority.”
You need a 2/3 majority to pass a budget in CA. The Democrats do not have that. Therefore, a small group of Republicans consistently derail the budget process. Soon, we will eliminate the 2/3 rule, which will strip the CA GOP of power.

I would partner but can you help me get a job first?