McCain: No Torture Prosecutions; Pelosi: No Immunity
EmailABC News’ Jonathan Karl Reports: Sen. John McCain, a former POW who knows something about torture, has long been a critic of the CIA’s interrogation policies. But today he has joined with senators Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham to urge President Obama not to prosecute the authors of the so-called torture memos.
"Pursuing such prosecutions would, we believe, have serious negative effects on the candor with which officials in any administration provide their best advice, and would take our country in a backward-looking direction at a time when our detainee-related challenges demand that we look forward," the senators wrote in a letter sent today to President Obama.
The senators also came out against the idea of creating a so-called "truth commission" to investigate the CIA’s interrogation policies.
"We have every interest in looking forward to solutions, not backward to recriminations," McCain, Lieberman and Graham wrote. "That is why we do not support the idea of a commission that would focus on the mistakes of the past."
Meanwhile, Senator Russ Feingold wrote a letter today to President Obama urging a thorough Justice Department investigation of the interrogation policy and saying Obama should not rule out any including prosecuting the CIA agents who carried out the interrogations.
And, on the other side of the Capitol, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi told a group of reporters today, "I myself do not believe that immunity should be granted to everyone in a blanket way." Pelosi also said she is in favor of congressional hearings on the subject and the creation of a truth commission.
"You will see the Judiciary Committee looking into this, the Intelligence Committee looking into this, but I think it gives further impetus among members to have some kind of commission looking into what happened and why legal opinions were so one-sided," Pelosi said.
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I find it curious that McCain, who in 2007 unequivocally declared that waterboarding is torture, is against any form of investigation. Is his party affiliation more important to him than his moral compass after all?
Posted by: El_Pajaro | April 22, 2009, 4:41 pm 4:41 pm
The officials and lawyers who issued these memos in support of torture did not offer their “best advice” in candor. If they had, then the same people would not have had to retract those memos with new memos in the months leading up to the end of Bush’s presidency in an effort to cover their own asses.
Posted by: Ordermonger | April 22, 2009, 4:47 pm 4:47 pm
I suppose Nancy Pelosi will want immunity for herself and a few other select members on the hill…considering she/they knew just what was happening and approved…
Posted by: samhiguchi | April 22, 2009, 5:21 pm 5:21 pm
Dear Obama, you are much younger than Fidel Castro, but you’re not smater than him. Please listen to carefully three senator’s advices who have experiences ten times more than you’ve been 93 days.
Posted by: Bryan-NY | April 22, 2009, 5:26 pm 5:26 pm
is Obama and the Democrats ever going to do any work.
Posted by: hittite | April 22, 2009, 5:43 pm 5:43 pm
Again I am asking what law was broken? Just because some liberal does not like something that happened is to bad. What law was broken or what treaty was broke? If the speaker and her henchmen continue along this path we should demand investigation in many of the members and details of what information was obtain from the so call torture. Democratic for every.
Posted by: William | April 22, 2009, 6:25 pm 6:25 pm
William – LAWS HAVE BEEN BROKEN
The War Crimes Act of 1996
18 U.S.C. § 2441
The War Crimes Act provides federal jurisdiction over prosecutions for “war crimes,” which the law defines as “grave breaches” of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, violations of Common Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions, and certain other offenses. These so-called “grave breaches” can include offenses against noncombatants, or surrendered or injured combatants, involving “willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment . . . [or] willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health.” The Act applies whether the crimes are committed “inside or outside the United States,” and whether the “person committing such war crime…is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States.” (It does not apply to non-citizens or nationals of the United States.) The statute also applies if the victim is in one of these categories. War crimes committed in the course of declared or undeclared armed conflicts, or during military occupation, are covered by the Act.
The Torture Act of 2000
18 U.S.C. §§ 2340, 2340A, and 2340B
The Torture Act makes it a federal crime for any U.S. national (or anyone later found present in the United States) to commit torture or conspire or attempt to commit torture outside the United States. Crimes under the Torture Act are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment up to 20 years; or, if the victim dies, by life imprisonment or death.
So it looks like there are laws that have been broken! Saying some libral doesn’t like something shows your lack of knowledge and understanding of the issue!
Posted by: try the truth | April 22, 2009, 6:48 pm 6:48 pm
try the truth
Why don’t you show us where water boarding was defined as torture in 2003? You seem to be able to find all this information. Show me where the people that implemented water boarding did so knowing that it was legally defined as torture.
Posted by: Dan In SC | April 22, 2009, 7:19 pm 7:19 pm
Dan In SC
Well Dan, I’m sure you’ll agree that pushing bamboo under the nails of US prisoners in Vietnam is considered torture, but it isn’t specifically addressed. But- Torture is defined as the intentional infliction of “severe physical or mental pain or suffering” upon a person within the defendant’s custody or control. To be “severe,” any mental pain or suffering resulting from torture must be “prolonged.”
So you tell me waterboarding isn’t covered! Better yet, why don’t we try it out on you and see what you think!
Posted by: try the truth | April 22, 2009, 7:39 pm 7:39 pm
Lindsey Graham, Joe Leiberman, and John McCain should have been screaming for an investigation during the Bush Admin. if they were against torture.
The only way to prevent this policy from gaining ground again is to prosecute those who authorized the use of torture and those who followed orders they knew to be illegal and immoral. Resign or torture? Resign and speak out. Bybee, Cheney’s legal advisor who is now a judge should be prosecuted for writing the torture memos. This episode in our nations history can only be ended when we prosecute those responsible for torturing in our name. It has been illegal since at least 1944. We have sullied our name in the world community. We may never regain our reputation back, but we might be able to cleanse our collective soul by knowing the truth and doing something about it. Prosecute!
Posted by: Peggy Pendleton | April 22, 2009, 7:41 pm 7:41 pm
What laws were broken?
United Nations Convention Against Torture (both signed and ratified by the US)
1.1 For the purposes of this Convention, the term “torture” means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession (…)
2.2 No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
2.3 An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
Posted by: El_Pajaro | April 22, 2009, 7:45 pm 7:45 pm
try the truth,
Just as I thought. You were not able to provide any evidence that water boarding was defined as torture. You are merely acting on emotions.
If its so bad, why do we see TV reporters trying it out, and why do our soldiers go through it during training?????
If we go by you and other liberals line of thinking, then we can’t do anything to make any of these animals uncomfortable. These people would rather behead you and your family than look at you, and yet your worried that they were made to feel uncomfortable for a few minutes.
And the people that implemented this policy were patriots trying to defend this country, and according to the NY Times it worked! Key intelligence was gathered that averted an attack on L.A., but I guess you’d rather see an attack on American soil than make some terrorist uncomfortable.
And since you are so against “torture” I’m quite sure you are against abortions too right????
Posted by: Dan In SC | April 22, 2009, 7:48 pm 7:48 pm
@Dan In SC
The very idea to use waterboarding on terror suspects came from the SERE program, a military training program which purpose was to train military personnel to resist torture.
Take a look at today’s articles on the New York Times and Washington Post websites. Or watch the Academy Award-winning documentary “Taxi to the Dark Side”. Or read Christopher Hitchen’s personal account on waterboarding in Vanity Fair: “Believe Me, It’s Torture”.
There are loads of info available.
Posted by: El_Pajaro | April 22, 2009, 7:57 pm 7:57 pm
Dan In SC
First and for most, it’s not a libral stance. It’s part of what we as Americans stand for. Michael Hayden Bush’s CIA chief admitted they used this against suspects that had ALREADY told them EVERYTHING THEY KNEW (Abu Zubaydah)! Waterboarding wasn’t the only tool they used, if you did your homework you would know that!
Now I know I’m going to either regret this or laugh uncontrollably but please, what is the common thread between abortion and torture? This should be interesting!
Posted by: try the truth | April 22, 2009, 7:58 pm 7:58 pm
“Key intelligence was gathered that averted an attack on L.A.”
That is from an opinion article by former Bush speech writer Marc A. Thiessen. The story was debunked by Timothy Noah of Slate who demonstrated that the plot was foiled before the guy who supposedly gave up the information was captured.
Posted by: El_Pajaro | April 22, 2009, 8:24 pm 8:24 pm
I understand McCain. But Cheney and Bush have both openly admitted to sanctioning waterboarding – are they above the law? …………
http://thefiresidepost.com/2009/04/16/indicting-george-bush-for-war-crimes/
Posted by: Ohg Rea Tone | April 22, 2009, 11:04 pm 11:04 pm
President Obama has spent $1 million in campaign funds to prevent release of a copy of his original birth certificate on file in Hawaii. Now why would he do that?
Posted by: Terry | April 22, 2009, 11:21 pm 11:21 pm
“President Obama has spent $1 million in campaign funds to prevent release of a copy of his original birth certificate on file in Hawaii. Now why would he do that?”
To watch you behave like a lunatic for a few months?
Posted by: Silky | April 22, 2009, 11:38 pm 11:38 pm
Terry – PROOF PLEASE! He didn’t have to spend a dime since the courts refused to hear the idiot rantings of you nutcases! You know sooo much more than the CIA, FBI and host of other security organizations, not to mention your own party! AND WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC? As usual, when you’ve got nothing, you deflect and you lie!
Posted by: try the truth | April 23, 2009, 6:26 am 6:26 am
I thought Mccain was Against Torture Is he Pandering to the Far right Again?
Posted by: Angie in Pa | April 23, 2009, 9:19 am 9:19 am
The Bush Administration Did the Torture so they could try And Link Bin Laden And Saddam Hussein together To Justify The Iraq War So there you Have it Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 911 so Bush Lied and Tortured NOW SEND THEM ALL TO JAIL!
Posted by: Angie in Pa | April 23, 2009, 9:21 am 9:21 am
“I thought Mccain was Against Torture Is he Pandering to the Far right Again?”
No. For the 500th time in these torture threads…plenty of people are anti-torture and also anti-prosecution. Prosecution will set an entirely new precedent, one which many people feel will inhibit future administrations’ abilities to work effectively in a number of arenas. BAD IDEA and Pelosi needs to learn when to sthu. I’m a huge BO supporter but her welcome is beginning to wear thin.
Posted by: Silky | April 23, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am
“Prosecution will set an entirely new precedent”
And what precedent will not prosecuting torture set?
This is not about left or right. This is about whether to uphold the law. The US is bound by the UN Convention Against Torture.
Posted by: El_Pajaro | April 23, 2009, 11:05 am 11:05 am
“And what precedent will not prosecuting torture set?”
None.
Posted by: Silky | April 23, 2009, 12:26 pm 12:26 pm
Of course, McCain knows about witch hunts because his former running mate’s (Moose Barbie) clergyman believes in witches and hunting them.
Don’t all Republicans believe in witches? It seems there were quite a number of witches at each of the Republican campaign fundraisers during the last election cycle.
Republicans are getting scarier and scarier. The only scarier than a Republican is an elected Republican.
Posted by: Sammy | April 23, 2009, 2:51 pm 2:51 pm
I still challenge any libby commentor to Define & Articulate the ‘PUBLIC SAFETY EXCEPTION’….. Anyone, anyone at all (even an ABC Employee!!)
Posted by: Mr Reality | April 23, 2009, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm
On another point:
I think this administration has already given ‘Peppilosi’ immunity from a sever lack of Intellect.
Posted by: Mr Reality | April 23, 2009, 5:23 pm 5:23 pm
I think the greatest part of this debate is…the President says no to prosecution. The next day the AG says possibly and the day after Pelosi is screaming heck yeah prosecute. Who runs the party? The argument isn’t over the torture; that has already been determined to be illegal. The question is can the President even find unity in his own party let alone the bi-partisan government he promised?
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