President Obama Cites Swine Flu Outbreak As Reason for More Investment into Science Research
ABC News’ Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller report:
President Obama this morning said that the swine flu outbreak is “cause for concern” but “not a cause for alarm.”
In remarks before the National Academy of Sciences President Obama said that he is closely monitoring the emerging cases of swine flu in the U.S and that the Public Health Emergency was declared as a “precautionary tool” to ensure necessary resources are at the disposal of the government.
“I’m getting regular updates on the situation from the responsible agencies, and the Department of Health and Human Services as well as the Centers for Disease Control will be offering regular updates to the American people so that they know what steps are being taken and what steps they may need to take,” Obama said today, “But one thing is clear – our capacity to deal with a public health challenge of this sort rests heavily on the work of our scientific and medical community. And this is one more example of why we cannot allow our nation to fall behind.”
President Obama’s remarks – which were previously scheduled before the outbreak of the swine flu – focused on the necessary investments into science and research, and faulted not only the Bush administration for the plunging levels of science funding as a portion of the GDP, but, presumably, farther back to the Reagan years as well.
“Federal funding in the physical sciences as a portion of our gross domestic product has fallen by nearly half over the past quarter century. Time and again we’ve allowed the research and experimentation tax credit, which helps businesses grow and innovate, to lapse…. And we have watched as scientific integrity has been undermined and scientific research politicized in an effort to advance predetermined ideological agendas.”
Going back a quarter century — to 1984 — indeed shows that federal sciences funding as a percentage of the gross domestic product has gone down.
But the pictures is far more complex than just a line sloping down from President Reagan to President Bush.
Truth is, since peaking in 1964, federal funding on sciences as a percentage of GDP has gone down under every President, Democratic or Republican, except for Ronald Reagan.
Federal sciences funding as a percentage of GDP* started increasing significantly under President Eisenhower, from .73% in 1953 to more than double that percentage 1.69% in 1960. Funding as a percentage of GDP peaked in 1964, at 1.92 percent under then-President Lyndon Johnson (no doubt with heavy input from his predecessor, President John F. Kennedy,as budgets are set a year prior)
The spending level was was 1.64% of GDP in President Johnson’s last year in office, 1968.
It went down slightly under President Richard Nixon, from 1.55% in 1969 to 1.15% in 1974; and down to 1.11% in President Gerald Ford’s last year in office, 1976. Funding went down from 1.09% in President Jimmy Carters first year in office, 1977, to 1.07% in 1980.
But the number fluctuated a great deal under President Ronald Reagan — starting at 1.08% in 1981, peaking at 1.25% in 1985, and ending with a net increase in 1988 at 1.18%.
Funding proceeded to decrease agani under President George H.W. Bush (1.10% in 1989, 0.96% in 1992); President Bill Clinton (0.91% in 1993 to 0.68% in 2000); and President George W. Bush (0.72% in 2001, peaking in 2003 and 2004 at 0.76%, and lessening to 0.71% in 2007, the last year for which statistics were available.)
President Obama promised new investment into research and development by both public and private investments, calling for the US to surpass its record investment in 1964 at the height of the space race.
“I am here today to set this goal: we will devote more than three percent of our GDP to research and development,” President Obama said.
The President outlined policies that his administration is making that will invest in basic and applied research and create new incentives for private innovation, spurring breakthroughs in energy and medicine and calling for improvement in math and science education.
In addition to investments through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, Obama outlined parts of his budget proposal –included in passed versions in the House and Senate – which doubles the budget of the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy’s Office of Science.
“We know that a nation’s potential for scientific discovery is defined by the tools it makes available to its researchers,” Obama said and then added, “But the renewed commitment of our nation will not be driven by government investment alone. It is a commitment that extends from the laboratory to the marketplace. That is why my budget makes the research and experimentation tax credit permanent.”
The president said this tax credit will return two dollars to the economy for every dollar spent to make it possible for companies to afford the high costs of new developments.
Obama also announced his funding for the Advanced Research Projects Agency for Energy to do “high-risk, high-reward” research and the appointment of the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology to advise his administration about strategies to “nurture and sustain a culture of scientific innovation.”
“At such a difficult moment, there are those who say we cannot afford to invest in science. That support for research is somehow a luxury at a moment defined by necessities. I fundamentally disagree. Science is more essential for our prosperity, our security, our health, our environment, and our quality of life than it has ever been.”
The president said that the pursuit of discovery a half century ago fueled prosperity and success – and the commitments that he is making today – he hopes – will fuel the nation’s success for another fifty years.
–Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller
* from "Gross domestic product and research and development (federally funded, nonfederal, and total): 1953–2007"; from Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis, 2008, and National Science Foundation, Science Resources Statistics, special tabulations, 2008.
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Can’t let this current crisis go to waste not when Obama can soak the taxpayers for more money.
Get ready middle class.
The promise that 95% will not see their taxes go up has already expired.
Posted by: tyler | April 27, 2009, 10:21 am 10:21 am
Dems and the White House need to apply the political screws to the GOP for blocking HHS nominee Sibelius in the middle of a health crisis. Abortion or a burgeoning pandemic? I believe most Americans would say the latter is top priority…
Posted by: matt | April 27, 2009, 10:49 am 10:49 am
The president said this tax credit will return two dollars to the economy for every dollar spent to make it possible for companies to afford the high costs of new developments.
That’s great as long as people realize the two dollars being “returned” to the economy are coming from somewhere.
I’m also sure that President Obama appreciates that he who controls the research funding controls the direction of the research.
Posted by: MayBee | April 27, 2009, 10:59 am 10:59 am
Obama goes to Mexico. Swine flu breaks out.
Hmmmmmmmm………..
Posted by: drjohn | April 27, 2009, 11:04 am 11:04 am
President Obama: “And we have watched as scientific integrity has been undermined and scientific research politicized in an effort to advance predetermined ideological agendas.”
You mean like embryonic stem cell research and global climate change of which the Democrats and President Obama are at the forefront?
Posted by: James Danley | April 27, 2009, 11:04 am 11:04 am
“Dems and the White House need to apply the political screws to the GOP for blocking HHS nominee Sibelius in the middle of a health crisis.”
That’s just what we need. A tax-dodger who thinks the answer to all health needs is more partial birth abortions.
Posted by: drjohn | April 27, 2009, 11:05 am 11:05 am
Just keep chanting “Yes We Can” and have a sip of kool-aid.
Problem solved.
Posted by: ron | April 27, 2009, 11:15 am 11:15 am
drjohn: “‘Dems and the White House need to apply the political screws to the GOP for blocking HHS nominee Sibelius in the middle of a health crisis.’
That’s just what we need. A tax-dodger who thinks the answer to all health needs is more partial birth abortions.”
So it is your opinion that dealing with a potential pandemic requires that one be fastidious in keeping receipts for all deductions and shares your religious opinion on partial birth abortion?
It is that kind of utter disregard for reality and science that show how far our nation’s education levels have fallen.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 11:22 am 11:22 am
Hey pandemic pushers, The One has, just today, said there’s no cause for alarm. Don’t you listen to your leader? Oh silly question. If you actually listened to what he said, you’d have pulled a different lever. My bad.
Posted by: Kitty | April 27, 2009, 11:30 am 11:30 am
Another big dose of debt will cure this. Debt cures everything in America.
Posted by: lauren | April 27, 2009, 11:35 am 11:35 am
Kitty:”Hey pandemic pushers, The One has, just today, said there’s no cause for alarm. Don’t you listen to your leader?”
Reality is not a true/false test, there are many shade of gray. The swine flu is a cause for concern, it needs to be properly addressed, but it is not a cause for panic. A broken arm doesn’t require panic, or even an ambulance in most cases, but it should be promptly and properly dealt with.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am
And just how is investment in the science research today going to cure the swine flu epidemic now? I can’t help but think this is bio-terrorism! Now that we aren’t waterboarding terrorists, what do they have to fear?
Posted by: Conservative Gal | April 27, 2009, 11:42 am 11:42 am
BANKS ARE BUYING SECURITIES WITH TARP MONEY. THIS MEANS THEY ARE PROBABLY BUYING EACH OTHER’s bank STOCKS.
According to TARP Special Investigator Neil Barofsky.
No wonder the market is going up. 700 Billion is alot of money. We didn’t give them this money to buy stocks.
This needs to stop!!!!!!
Posted by: Dazon | April 27, 2009, 11:43 am 11:43 am
Obama is so busy being politically correct that unlike Europe and russia he has declined to monitor those traveling from Mexico, close, or monitor the borders for sick travelers, and issuing warnings on travel.
Because of his arrogance that maybe believing his force of will would keep disease out, Europe is now recommending no travel to the US. They know we are contaminated beyond control now. Obama screwed us on this too.
Now it is too late. They waited too long. If this turns into a larger problem for the US it is squarely in the yet again moronic, politically correct, put everyone else’s best interest above those of the US, Obama administration.
THEY CANNOT DO AN;YTHING PROPERLY
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 11:45 am 11:45 am
Just how will increased investment in scientific and medical research help protect against unforeseen and unpredictable strains of disease? Epidemics and pandemics are so devastating because an organism affects humans in some completely new way and the immune system cannot effectively combat it (at least at first). Medical research is also predominantly reactive so that there is no magic bullet for every disease that some scienctist can whip up in a lab beforehand, as they have no idea with what they will have to contend. Try as you might to think of 100 deadly strains into which the flu virus can mutate and devise some way beforehand to defeat them, and the flu virus will develop into a 101st strain that no one foresaw and that will kill thousands.
Posted by: Publius | April 27, 2009, 11:46 am 11:46 am
Who is this Obamma –our MOTHER?
Geez, guys, have you noticed that the man uses EVERY emotionl issue to push more debt onto the American public? WAKE UP!! Just before slipping $2Billion MORE for the auto industry through Congress, our President
“agonized” over issuing info on torture and the flip-flopped over the prosecution issue with his timeline on what to do to coincide with the auto industry’s deadline for results at the end of May. He’s VERY GOOD at pimping the media’s exposure. This is just another case in point.
Posted by: WBGSJ | April 27, 2009, 11:48 am 11:48 am
He is doing the right thing. And instead of waterboarding and torturing the detainees, why didn’t they have a trial right away? Whey were they in there since 9/11? If they were guilty they should have gotten the death penalty. Do you really think if you torture someone they will tell the truth? And how do you know they are telling the truth? And the same person asked why work on the science now, that will not help this swine flu. Well if the Bush administration had done more we would have more ammunition for these diseases. Pres. Obama is right.
Posted by: Barb | April 27, 2009, 11:49 am 11:49 am
Boy does this kool-aid taste good
Posted by: justonedaydreamer | April 27, 2009, 11:49 am 11:49 am
WE ARE ALREADY OUT OF MONEY!!!
Where does he think this will come from?
We are already multiplying our debt over and over since he took office, and he is nowhere near done spending yet.
WHOWILL PAY FOR THIS???
As this abject moron Obama moves towards a rationed health care controlled by the government all the private funding and investment for science research, which has been the best in the world, will absolutely dry up. Progress will come to a complete end.
Obama is going to send our medical care back to the dark ages.
Innovation is almost non-existent (except for what they import to the US), doctor shortages, long long waits for cancer treatments and very high death rates, even longer waits for unneeded surgery such as knee and hip replacements, rationing of drugs and cancer treatment, these are the characteristics of ALL countries with a national health care program.
You have no idea what we are in for.
Oh, I forgot, you will still be paying a very high health care premium, but it will be to the government.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 11:50 am 11:50 am
Conservative gal: Perhaps if Bush had done more scientific research we would have something today to attack all of these diseases….that’s what the president is talking about. I guess he should not do anymore research because it will not help the swine flu?
I’m tired of people criticizing him when he happens to be right….He’s doing the right thing. And perhaps these terriorists should have been tried and convicted and put to death instead of sitting there since 9/11 being waterboarded. By the way did it help? Obviously not!
Posted by: Barb | April 27, 2009, 11:52 am 11:52 am
Publius:”Just how will increased investment in scientific and medical research help protect against unforeseen and unpredictable strains of disease?”
A mutation of the flu is hardly unforeseen. Note that actions taken during the past administration have ensured that we have a large stock of Tamiflu that may be partially effective against this strain. The danger was also recognized quickly and appropriate actions taken, such as shutting down a school upon the mere suspicion of it being present (it did turn out to be swine flu so the quick action was critical).
Scientific and medical research is fundamental to preventing and mitigating the impact of outbreaks like these. And of course you only hear about the cases that research has not yet predicted or gotten control of – all the others from whooping cough to the bubonic plague (still crops up occasionally in the Southwest) are handled without fanfare.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 11:53 am 11:53 am
The news story about the swine flu is old news. It is Mexico’s problem and let them solve their health cares problem in their country. That why we should put the fence near the border so that they can’t come into USA. We can’t handled them here anymore and too many problems in the USA. They should stay in their home in Mexico and Central Americas. Enough is Enough!
Posted by: anonymous | April 27, 2009, 11:54 am 11:54 am
Okay, I voted for Obama but I’m getting tired of the speeches and the lawyer speak. Be straight and tell us: is this serious or is it just a minor flu?
Posted by: JOE | April 27, 2009, 11:55 am 11:55 am
Obama and Napolitano did not respond last week when they should have.
This is a show to make Obama look like he give’s a flying rat’s behind.
He is spending more money we do not have.
Obama’s delay in reacting will cause this outbreak to be far worse than it would have been.
Other countries, knowing that we responded too late, are stopping travel and imports from the US.
This stupidity of the Obama administration will cost us health, lives and also damage our economy when we can least afford it.
But hey, this little soundbite really makes him look like he is on top of things and the news media can focus on that instead of his delayed, costly, lack of response.
Posted by: Nobama | April 27, 2009, 11:56 am 11:56 am
Jake — Did you take journalism in college? Ask me, you need to check your work before spilling it out on the internet. “Passed” administrations in your article sounds like Obamma’s “present” during congressional votes. The proper term should be “PAST.”
Careful, Jake — your integrity is slipping.
Posted by: WBGSJ | April 27, 2009, 11:56 am 11:56 am
MNM:”Obama is so busy being politically correct that unlike Europe and russia he has declined to monitor those traveling from Mexico, close, or monitor the borders for sick travelers, and issuing warnings on travel.”
WBGSJ:”Who is this Obamma –our MOTHER?”
Could the rightwingers please wait for Rush to coordinate their daily Obama bashing? When you guys are this self-contradictory it is really hard to work up any real interest in your latest rant. Thanks.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 11:56 am 11:56 am
I’m concerned about the testing of animals to make more vaccines. NO Blood for vaccines. We shouldn’t be concerned about another soveriegn nation. This is not a threat to our national security. The threat is overblown, its not going to invade us. Obama lied and pigs died.
Posted by: Heavenislikethis | April 27, 2009, 11:59 am 11:59 am
I just hope the government doesn’t use this as an excuse to try to force manditory vaccinations. I would not be surprised if they did.
Posted by: keredte | April 27, 2009, 11:59 am 11:59 am
A mutation of the flu is hardly unforeseen. Note that actions taken during the past administration have ensured that we have a large stock of Tamiflu that may be partially effective against this strain.
jhw539
————-
Please, you cannot find a specific treatment until the exact mutation is known.
Certainly you are not implying that the government should have predicted the unlimited number of mutations and created something to treat each of them.
THAT IS WHAT THE TAMIFLU IS FOR. IT IS AS GENERIC AS IT GETS. BUSH CREATED THE LARGE STOCKPILES.
YOU CANNOT PREPARE FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT CLEARLY DEFINED.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 12:00 pm 12:00 pm
Could the rightwingers please wait for Rush to coordinate their daily Obama bashing? When you guys are this self-contradictory it is really hard to work up any real interest in your latest rant. Thanks.
Posted by: jhw539 | Apr 27, 2009 11:56:57 AM
————–
Democrats all believe everyone works from a set of talking points. It is inconceivable to them that we don’t have a drugged, mass mindset, like they do.
When they have nothing intelligent to offer they invoke Rush, Hannity, and proceed to personally insult others posting.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm
Obama is not concerned???? Just wait till it hits HIS house.
Posted by: Carlene | April 27, 2009, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm
Never let a crisis go to waste; use it to push your agenda, obama. Better be quick though because you’ve got 3.5 year left.
Posted by: Jenny | April 27, 2009, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm
The “responsible agencies” are a utopian NAFTA and those who support it. TB, leprosy, ear infections, other diseases, lice, bed bugs, tainted food products, truckloads of drugs and people. All from none other than where? All this to pass more law and dole out the cash.
Posted by: Reflect08 | April 27, 2009, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm
As I understand it, the GOP stripped funds for flu pandemic preparedness from the stimulus package. Good going, GOP!
Posted by: CCC | April 27, 2009, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm
“Democrats all believe everyone works from a set of talking points. It is inconceivable to them that we don’t have a drugged, mass mindset, like they do.
When they have nothing intelligent to offer they invoke Rush, Hannity, and proceed to personally insult others posting.”
I see that you like to go to the personal insults right from the start.
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm
JOE:”Be straight and tell us: is this serious or is it just a minor flu?”
Your question is far too broad and ambiguous to have a yes or no answer (a minor flu season in the US would be one with under 10,000 deaths from the flu – is that what you meant?). The transcript of today’s briefing up at whitehouse.gov gives a good overview.
“Today we can confirm that there are 20 cases of swine flu in the United States…all of the individuals in this country who have been identified as cases have recovered. Only one individual had to be hospitalized…
…
Flu viruses are extremely unpredictable and variable; outbreaks of infectious disease are extremely unpredictable and variable.
…
One of the points I didn’t make before is that if someone is ill with flu-like symptoms, in particular if they’ve traveled to an area that’s been involved, they need to contact their doctor and determine what type testing and treatment is indicated.”
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 12:12 pm 12:12 pm
Yes, Science is the only answer! Of course we should NEVER consider closing the border to protect our citizens…
Posted by: PatF | April 27, 2009, 12:16 pm 12:16 pm
MNM:”It is inconceivable to them that we don’t have a drugged, mass mindset, like they do.”
It is inconceivable that you believe hysterical ranting is a substitute for reality.
MNM “Please, you cannot find a specific treatment until the exact mutation is known.”
This is simply false. It is a flu virus, and it is very likely that it depends on the same proteins that neuraminidase inhibitors target. As for specific treatments, you can always treat the symptoms to minimize mortality rates. Again, hysterical rantings do not substitute for reality. I urge anyone showing symptoms to see the doctor, even if MNM chooses to deny all modern medical practice and insist there is nothing they can do.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm
Has there ever been an event or issue that our President thought did not require further spending?
Posted by: smith | April 27, 2009, 12:21 pm 12:21 pm
MNM:”THAT IS WHAT THE TAMIFLU IS FOR. IT IS AS GENERIC AS IT GETS. BUSH CREATED THE LARGE STOCKPILES.
YOU CANNOT PREPARE FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT CLEARLY DEFINED. ”
I think I may have misinterpreted what you said… Your first sentence is a description of how to prepare for an epidemic that is not clearly defined (generic, effective approaches identified through research into the proteins flu viruses use in their propagation mechanism).
But the last sentence shouts you cannot prepare for something that is not clearly defined. Not sure how to argue when you’re apparently vehemently taking both sides of the argument.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 12:22 pm 12:22 pm
I see that you like to go to the personal insults right from the start.
Posted by: Skip | Apr 27, 2009 12:11:41 PM
———-
Democrats will reap what they sow.
The point remains that Obama reacted far too slowly with this issue.
Europe has issued travel advisories to the US, because they know we reacted too late and are impossibly contaminated.
Other countries, are monitoring travelers and have been for a few days now.
The lack of response by the Obama administration is going to not only damage our chance of fighting this outbreak off, it will damage our economy when travel and trade are affected.
Obama is in denial with his idiot grin that anything could truly go wrong if he does not allow it.
He should have responded promptly last week.
Remember the democrats indignation when flu vaccine was discovered to be contaminated and was necessarily destroyed. For some reason, they in their ultimate hostile ignorance, chose to blame Bush, instead of thanking him for not allowing contaminated flu vaccine to be utilized. Yes there was then a shortage of flu vaccine that winter, although there was no real outbreak that year.
This however is squarely in Obama’s lap because he failed to respond last week when this could have been contained.
Offering money WE DO NOT HAVE for future research is a soundbite that has nothing to do with what is going on now.
No vaccine can be created until the variation, or mutation of the flu is known.
His little dog and pony show is kool aid for the masses and the Obamedia.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm
jhw539 – “A mutation of the flu is hardly unforeseen. Note that actions taken during the past administration have ensured that we have a large stock of Tamiflu that may be partially effective against this strain…
Scientific and medical research is fundamental to preventing and mitigating the impact of outbreaks like these.”
Guess again, jhw539. You cite examples of diseases which are already known (and were at one time new), but there is NO WAY to anticipate all the ways in which an organism may mutate, the effect of the mutation on humans, and the efficacy of pre-existing vaccines on them. The flu virus is one example of a family of organisms that mutates rapidly. But is anyone working on a vaccine for a staph strain that is absorbed through the eye and liquifies the brain so that it drains through your nasal passages? No – because such a mutation does not yet exist and I doubt that anyone will prepare for it because they didn’t even consider that such a thing would happen. For all you or anyone else knows, feline leukemia may mutate so that it becomes an extremely malignent source of human cancer. I repeat again that it is not possible to anticipate and prepare for epidemic or pandemic contingencies because no one can foresee what new and mutated strains of organisms will arise or what diseases they may cause in the future.
Posted by: Publius | April 27, 2009, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm
But the last sentence shouts you cannot prepare for something that is not clearly defined. Not sure how to argue when you’re apparently vehemently taking both sides of the argument.
A mutation of the flu is hardly unforeseen. Note that actions taken during the past administration have ensured that we have a large stock of Tamiflu that may be partially effective against this strain.
Posted by: jhw539 | Apr 27, 2009 12:22:03 PM
—————————–
You claim that a mutation is hardly unforseen, as though this specific mutation should have been predicted.
Absolutely ridiculous.
I do argue that we do the best with what we know but cannot possibly predict and prepare for the mutated version of a virus.
Tamiflu as you well not does have some cross over ability to help which is why I called it generic.
Preparing for a specific mutation is not possible and NOT THE SAME as preparing a generic response, which Bush did do and which we thankfully have on hand.
It is BS that I am arguing both sides, if you don’t get the difference now you never will.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm
ccc….LOL The GOP does SQUAT without the Democrat approval….If Susan Collins (R)ONLY ONE OF THREE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR THIS STIMULUS BILL stripped 870 Million Dollars out of the Health Care bill, The DEMOCRATS ALLOWED IT AND APPROVED IT TO GET OBAMA’S POLICY THROUGH WITH ALL OF 56 DEMOCRAT VOTES MAJORITY BTW ***REMEMBER, YOUR GUY WON AND IT’S ON HIS HEAD NOW…
Posted by: Parallax View | April 27, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm
What do you know, almost a week too late, the state department is issuing travel warnings to Mexico.
TOO LATE NOW. We are behind the rest of the world in issuing these warnings, yet based on proximity we were most at risk.
Now the rest of the world is warning against travel to the US.
OBAMA IS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL INEXPERIENCED MORON. HIS INABILITY TO REACT IN A TIMELY MANNER WILL COST US LIVES AND DAMAGE OUR ECONOMY.
Posted by: Nobama | April 27, 2009, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm
We need to close our borders into Mexico tell this stops.
Obama needs to start thinking about the people of the United States. It is hear…yes… but lets try to stop it. The more people who keeps coming and going the worse it will get.
Posted by: insight | April 27, 2009, 12:50 pm 12:50 pm
Publius:Your argument that it is impossible to omniprescient so therefore we should do nothing is not very compelling.
” For all you or anyone else knows, feline leukemia may mutate so that it becomes an extremely malignent source of human cancer.”
Research suggests this is very unlikely. More research is needed to quantify the risk, but the money is probably better spent elsewhere.
“I repeat again that it is not possible to anticipate and prepare for epidemic or pandemic contingencies because no one can foresee what new and mutated strains of organisms will arise or what diseases they may cause in the future.”
This argument is directly disproven by the preparation for flu pandemics taken every year. We cannot prepare FOR EVERY POSSIBLE pandemic, but we can and do prepare for many and do so successfully.
What, exactly is your point? That we should cancel all research since it is impossible it will cure everything and prevent every possible pandemic? May as well let smallpox loose again since we can’t cure AIDs – does that sum up your position?
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
insight:”We need to close our borders into Mexico tell this stops.
Obama needs to start thinking about the people of the United States”
Not a single death in the US (out of several cases) and you WANT martial law.
I cannot properly communicate how glad I am that the radical right is out of power.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 12:55 pm 12:55 pm
MNM:”THAT IS WHAT THE TAMIFLU IS FOR. IT IS AS GENERIC AS IT GETS. BUSH CREATED THE LARGE STOCKPILES.
YOU CANNOT PREPARE FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT CLEARLY DEFINED. ”
I stand by MNM’s previously posted denunciation of MNM’s ‘argument.’
(And I was the first to give credit to the previous administration for the Tamiflu stockpiling – although it was more the work of Congress, they did nothing without Bush’s OK.)
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 12:58 pm 12:58 pm
JHW539…DON’T BLIND ME WITH SCIENCE..Keep your eye on the ball….For those of us who live in Southern Cal…or perhaps other areas, How many times have you witnessed an illegal alien selling fruit or flowers on the street corner and people dumb enough to buy it….Guess it’s up to us citizens to begin taking control ourselves….Complain to City Hall
Posted by: Parallax View | April 27, 2009, 1:03 pm 1:03 pm
How much will this crisis cost the taxpayers?
Posted by: fred | April 27, 2009, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm
jhw539: I am not a repub… I voted for Obama from the very being. I have great respect for this President. With that being said… yes… we need to close our borders into mexico tell this flu has run its coarse… really think about it… hundreds are crossing over daily that is putting the United States at a higher risk.
Posted by: insight | April 27, 2009, 1:14 pm 1:14 pm
“these are the characteristics of ALL countries with a national health care program.”
Actually the characteristics of European countries with national health care is that they live longer than us for half the cost.
Posted by: gary | April 27, 2009, 1:16 pm 1:16 pm
jhw539….Your joking right???? Can I cite one single case of this happening??? Well let’s think about this. There are currently 13 M in the United States and Arizona alone arrests 3,000 daily trying to cross illegally alone. Five hundred thousand a year do get through the South Western border states for those unskilled jobs…Now we are presented with another reason to cross illegally. Can you cite that the 1,400 that are getting across illegally are absolutely not carrying the virus??? Are you willing to stake your health and your family’s health on a hunch??
Posted by: Parallax View | April 27, 2009, 1:19 pm 1:19 pm
gary: Totally agree… I am all for Universal Health Care, we should have been the leader. Better late than never. Why… I am a breast cancer survivor try getting affordable health insurance after the insurance company hear those words…
Posted by: insight | April 27, 2009, 1:22 pm 1:22 pm
Parallax View:”Your joking right???? Can I cite one single case of this happening??? Well let’s think about this. There are currently 13 M in the United States and Arizona alone arrests 3,000 daily trying to cross illegally alone.”
I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about THE SWINE FLU EPIDEMIC. I’m not up for a random walk through your favored hot button issues.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm
More meaningless double-talk from the president. Don’t look to Washington for the truth about the swine flu threat. You’ll get better information from the Canadians.
Posted by: creeper | April 27, 2009, 1:24 pm 1:24 pm
insight: “With that being said… yes… we need to close our borders into mexico tell this flu has run its coarse… really think about it… hundreds are crossing over daily that is putting the United States at a higher risk.”
I disagree. Montezuma’s revenge has killed more people in the US than this flu so far. I’m fine with leaving it to the professionals to decide when quarantine is necessary rather than being panicked by the latest headline into sending the national guard to the border (the only way) to close traffic with a major economic trading partner during a recession. We may need to close the border, but that is not a measure to be taken on a whim.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm
Actually the characteristics of European countries with national health care is that they live longer than us for half the cost.
Posted by: gary | Apr 27, 2009 1:16:58 PM
————
Their cancer death rates are higher, their care is rationed, they have a system of health care tourism so that those that can afford to travel elsewhere and pay for their own health care do so. Why would that be such a MASSIVE industry in countries with national health care if it were all so rosy.
All countries with national health care have high unemployment rates, averaging a chronic 10%, which is unavoidable when the government undertakes such a costly program and inevitably raises taxes to fund it, lowers the average standard of living, and as high taxes always do, it kills jobs.
I am not sure it is accurate that they live longer. None of us counts death rates the same way, oddly enough. For example we are always being told that our infant death rates are so high, here’s why.
We count every live birth, no matter how premature, even if not really a viable baby, if they took a breath.
Other countries only count deaths after a term birth. They do not count all premature births in their statistics.
We are not comparing apples and apples.
We are however comparing cancer death statistics, rationed treatment and so on.
You don’t like your choices now? You think your HMO isn’t taking good care of you? JUST WAIT.
Imagine being turned down for knee or hip surgery, as it isn’t necessary to live. Imagine waiting a year to diagnose that horrible pain in your hip or knee via an MRI or CT, what happens when that cartilage damage is actually cancer.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BAD A NATIONALIZED RATIONED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS.
There are examples ad nauseum.
YOU will also pay high premiums.
One of the very misunderstood parts of all this is that there WILL still be a health care “insurance” payment that you will make.
It is so bad in Germany that they had to add a co-pay for all office visits in addition to the high yearly premium.
If anyone doubts any of this pick up the tax cheat’s book on national health care. Tom Daschle who was Obama’s first choice to manage this details this in his book.
He tells us we need to get used to living with some discomfort or pain.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm
As if Mexico does not have enough to worry about they just had a quake of 6.0. Mexico City felt it and buildings moved.
Posted by: insight | April 27, 2009, 1:30 pm 1:30 pm
“Not a single death in the US (out of several cases) and you WANT martial law.
I cannot properly communicate how glad I am that the radical right is out of power.”
Agreed.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm
The more acute thinkers on the left can see rationing coming, provoking Slate blogger Mickey Kaus to warn of the political danger. “Isn’t it an epic mistake to try to sell Democratic health-care reform on this basis? Possible sales pitch: ‘Our plan will deny you unnecessary treatments!’ … Is that really why the middle class will sign on to a revolutionary multitrillion-dollar shift in spending — so the government can decide their life or health ‘is not worth the price’?”
My own preference is for a highly competitive, privatized health-insurance system with a government-subsidized transition to portability, breaking the absurd and ruinous link between health insurance and employment. But if you believe that health care is a public good to be guaranteed by the state, then a single-payer system is the next best alternative. Unfortunately, it is fiscally unsustainable without rationing.
Social Security used to be the third rail of American politics. Not anymore. Health-care rationing is taking its place — which is why Obama, the consummate politician, knows to offer the candy (universality) today before serving the spinach (rationing) tomorrow.
Taken as a whole, Obama’s social democratic agenda is breathtaking. And the rollout has thus far been brilliant. It follows Kaus’ advice to “give pandering a chance” and adheres to the Democratic tradition of being the party that gives things away, while leaving the green-eyeshade stinginess to those heartless Republicans.
It will work for a while, but there is no escaping rationing. In the end, the spinach must be served.
Posted by: screwed again and again | April 27, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm
We may need to close the border, but that is not a measure to be taken on a whim.
Posted by: jhw539 | Apr 27, 2009 1:27:30 PM
———–
Newsflash. The ship has sailed on that option. The horse is out of the barn, get it.
By the way, the CDC claims that even now they have not decided to begin work on a vaccine or treatment specific to this strain of flu. They also don’t feel that Tamiflu really helps with this strain, meaning there is currently NO EFFECTIVE TREATMENT.
They are working with the Obama admin to balance “options and tradeoffs” (THEIR WORDS NOT MINE) before they decide whether or not to work on a treatment.
Translation: Enough people have to die to make it worth our while. Unless a lot of people are going to die we don’t want to spend the money. Even if we could save a few hundred or thousand that is not enough to warrant the cost. Why don’t they just tell us how many will have to die for this or other pandemics before they will develop a vaccine or treatment?
Welcome to national intervention in health care.
Other countries were much more proactive and now consider us contaminated.
They are warning against travel to the US which will damage our economy.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm
jhw539…I see you do not live in one of the border states. You asked the question..if you do not like the answer don’t ask the question…Illegal immigration has many many reasons besides seeking a job. Free medical care is one reason for crossing illegally treatment for diseases, pregnant, etc., and now again we are faced with another reason, treatment for illness perhaps with a free medical clinic or family member or….
Posted by: Parallax View | April 27, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm
Obama had yet another one of his “Milli Vanilli Teleprompter malfunctions” at this event. Too bad the media and the comedians never seem to notice.
Posted by: OxyCon | April 27, 2009, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm
“All countries with national health care have high unemployment rates, averaging a chronic 10%, which is unavoidable when the government undertakes such a costly program and inevitably raises taxes to fund it, lowers the average standard of living, and as high taxes always do, it kills jobs.”
ROFLMAO!
Here’s a quick list of countries with nationalized healthcare AND lower unemployment than the US.
Canada, England Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Denmark, Italy, Portugal, Switzerland etc
The lesson as always? Right wingers lie.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm
“Translation: Enough people have to die to make it worth our while. Unless a lot of people are going to die we don’t want to spend the money.”
Its funny how right wingers had ZERO problems with Bush changing this formula when it applied to pollution to raise the human cost before regulations were needed.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm
“The more acute thinkers on the left can see rationing coming, provoking Slate blogger Mickey Kaus to warn of the political danger.”
Mickey Kaus is not on the left and Charles Krauthammer (who you ripped that off from) is crazy right winger.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm
“Not a single death in the US (out of several cases) and you WANT martial law.
I cannot properly communicate how glad I am that the radical right is out of power.”
Agreed.
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr 27, 2009 1:32:51 PM
————–
Newsflash Martial law is defined as follows:
emporary rule by military authorities, imposed on a civilian population especially in time of war or when civil authority has broken.
Democrats are injecting that term into this to inflame partisan rhetoric. No one has suggested such a thing.
Monitoring the borders, and testing those coming into the country is no different than what Euro countries, including great Britain are doing.
They are also now monitoring US citizens coming into their countries because the bozo Obama admin reacted so slowly that we are hopelessly contamintated.
What will they do when a real bio threat hits.
They are inexperienced morons who have no clue what they are doing.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm
Finally an Obama policy I can agree with. Too bad the rest of his platform sucks. Even this one will put money in the pockets of our most liberal scientists. I can just see a dime going to a man caused warming skeptic. LOL
Posted by: Dave C | April 27, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm
MNM:
“They also don’t feel that Tamiflu really helps with this strain, meaning there is currently NO EFFECTIVE TREATMENT.”
Could you please cite the source of that outlandish assertion? From the CDC’s webpage:
“Laboratory testing has found the swine influenza A (H1N1) virus susceptible to the prescription antiviral drugs oseltamivir and zanamivir. ”
The swine flu is a new type A (H1N1) virus, and not surprisingly it uses the same proteins that are susceptible to neuraminidase inhibitor.
ANY flu can cause deaths (thousands each year in the US), so it needs to be taken seriously – you don’t have to make up lies about it being some sort of super bug. It’s already being dealt with responsibly.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
“Translation: Enough people have to die to make it worth our while. Unless a lot of people are going to die we don’t want to spend the money.”
Its funny how right wingers had ZERO problems with Bush changing this formula when it applied to pollution to raise the human cost before regulations were needed.
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr 27, 2009 1:41:17 PM
———–
There you go again. When there is no defense to the Obama delayed response to this you invoke Bush and some crime you hype or imagine.
What is relevant right now is that Obama did not react properly when he should have.
What is relevant right now is that the king of Billions of dollars in pork, B. Obama, cannot now decide how many deaths will be required before we spend any money working on a vaccine or treatment for this version of the swine flu.
What is unimaginable has become true. Obama who wastes money beyond our wildest imagination cannot spend the money to properly prevent, then when it is too late, fight this disease.
He is two steps too late every step of the way.
Europe is advising no travel to the US which will damage our economy and is a non-partisan indictment of the Obama abject failure on this current threat.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 1:47 pm 1:47 pm
“They also don’t feel that Tamiflu really helps with this strain, meaning there is currently NO EFFECTIVE TREATMENT.”
Could you please cite the source of that outlandish assertion? From the CDC’s webpage:
————
CDC just did a news conference in NYC with Michael Bloomberg and when asked by a reporter, the CDC rep claimed that they are finding that it is not effective.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm
“What is relevant right now is that the king of Billions of dollars in pork, B. Obama, cannot now decide how many deaths will be required before we spend any money…”
So the guy who spends way to much on way too many things isn’t spending enough on this.
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm
“What is relevant right now is that the king of Billions of dollars in pork, B. Obama, cannot now decide how many deaths will be required before we spend any money…”
So the guy who spends way to much on way too many things isn’t spending enough on this.
Posted by: Skip | Apr 27, 2009 1:52:40 PM
————
Absolutely. The moron Obama that spent billions in special interest dollars, including a recent 160 million for the John Murtha (dem) Airport, which sees about 4- 15 passengers per week, will not spend anything making this vaccine. There are so many examples but you get the point. The Porkulus bill alone would have funded hundreds of research projects that would help the citizens, but maybe not Obama.
Special interests and personal interest expenditures are A-OK but not for the health of the citizens.
This is of course what his approach to national health care will be.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm
jhw539…”Being dealt with responsibly?” How so??? What policies has Obama instituted to help stop further incursion?
If this is not a cause for alarm what is?
Posted by: Parallax View | April 27, 2009, 2:02 pm 2:02 pm
“They also don’t feel that Tamiflu really helps with this strain, meaning there is currently NO EFFECTIVE TREATMENT.”
Could you please cite the source of that outlandish assertion? From the CDC’s webpage:
————
CDC just did a news conference in NYC with Michael Bloomberg and when asked by a reporter, the CDC rep claimed that they are finding that it is not effective.
Dr Richard Vester (sp?)
He now clarifies that there is a small help if taken immediately in the first 24 hours. After that no help from the tamiflu whatsoever.
The odds of getting the vaccine within 24 hours of being infected are very slim. It will lead to many being treated who are not infected and many not being treated who should have been.
The best thing would have been to deal with the spread when there was still time. Too late now. We are left with finding the best way to manage a bad situation that could have been limited.
Posted by: MNM | Apr 27, 2009 1:49:47 PM
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm
MNM:”What is relevant right now is that Obama did not react properly when he should have.”
Is that your professional opinion? Would it change if the flu blew over causing a trivial number of deaths in the US (all flus cause some deaths) without some hysterical sky is falling military response (closing borders, screening all airports in, etc)?
MNM:”CDC just did a news conference in NYC with Michael Bloomberg and when asked by a reporter, the CDC rep claimed that they are finding that it is not effective.”
I am more inclined to believe that you misheard a question about the flu shot (which is not effective) than that the CDC’s webpage updated 61 minutes ago missed adding this bombshell about a type A that is not effected by neuraminidase inhibitors.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 2:07 pm 2:07 pm
Republicans were responsible for stripping pandemic funding from the stimulus.
“After meeting with Mr. Obama, Sen. Collins expressed concern about a number of spending provisions, including $780 million for pandemic-flu preparedness.”
Posted by: gary | April 27, 2009, 2:11 pm 2:11 pm
Parallax View:”"Being dealt with responsibly?” How so??? What policies has Obama instituted to help stop further incursion?”
Dealing with it responsibly means not shutting the country down over the emergence of a new flu strain at the end of the season. They moved quickly on identifying it and notifying local jurisdictions, which has resulted in very effective (and minimally intrusive) quarantine actions to limit the spread.
Again, no deaths have been caused by this flu in the US. Do you think the borders should have been closed all winter to prevent the spread of the type A flu that killed thousands last flu season?
Are you always this easily stampeded by the media into demanding protection from daddy government?
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm
gary:”Republicans were responsible for stripping pandemic funding from the stimulus.”
Not unreasonable. Funding of this nature is not a one-time shot thing and it is not responsible to budget it as such. Plenty of reasons to bash the Party of No. This doesn’t seem to be a good one.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm
How can Republicans be responsible? Obama lacks a health team and the GOP voted against the stimulus bill, remember? How is it when the Democrats have all the power the GOP gets the blame? It’s the people in office and with the power that should have the foresight.
Posted by: Jon | April 27, 2009, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm
most stimulus funding has not even been implemented so even if it was in the bill, it is unlikely it would have changed things. however, it is likely that if obama had a hhs secretary and filled 19 important posts we would not be so off guard.
See details:
Posted by: John Ridder | April 27, 2009, 2:23 pm 2:23 pm
s that your professional opinion? Would it change if the flu blew over causing a trivial number of deaths in the US (all flus cause some deaths) without some hysterical sky is falling military response (closing borders, screening all airports in, etc)?
jhw539
————————
You are exaggerating my point with your hysterical misinterpretation of my point. What is it with you dems and a “military response” so far you are the only ones hysterical enough to bring it up.
The point is we cannot predict which will blow over and must be proactive each time. Every other body from WHO to euro government, to Australia and so on took action long before.
Other countries were warning against travel to Mexico last week. We have the most travel, given common borders and all and,,, until today, no warning was given.
The next step, screening those arriving from Mexico, as other countries are and have been doing was also not undertaken. We have more travelers so the cost is certainly higher.
By tracking those crossing the border for illness and exposure you can determine the next step.
This whole debacle is a sign of what we can expect from the Obama admin. Every step of the way money was the concern and not the safety of the citizens.
We don’t know which way this one will go, and it may fizzle out.
The point is before we could possibly know which way it would go there was a responsibility to be proactive and limit the spread to US citizens. That is his job after all.
There is a defined process for how CDC reacts and the proper steps to take to prevent the spread of illness threat. It is not ad hoc with each event.
The Obama administration chose to not react and follow those plans, and now, too late to help, they are slowly implementing parts of the plan when it is too late.
It is so late Europe is advising not to visit the US because they know it is too late and we are hopelessly contaminated. This will certainly damage our economy.
Hopefully this will fizzle out and Obama has learned a thing or two so that if and when the next one rolls around, one that is far more deadly, he reacts in a rational timely manner.
If it goes badly and doesn’t fizzle out, Obama is OVER.
The point is you can’t wait to find out how deadly something is to react.
Every step of the way he did not want to spend the money to do the right thing. He was far too busy celebrating 65 billion dollars in new debt for every one of his 100 days in office.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm
“Special interests and personal interest expenditures are A-OK but not for the health of the citizens.”
I’m sure there are those who will contend that Obama’s policies are far better for the health of the citizens both directly and indirectly by addressing issues like pollution etc. The point is that everyone wants money for things that they think are very important.
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 2:25 pm 2:25 pm
John Ridder:”however, it is likely that if obama had a hhs secretary and filled 19 important posts we would not be so off guard. ”
In what way are we “off guard?” Are you another proponent of sending the military to seal the border over a flu outbreak? Just because you don’t think they over reacted to the extent you would does not mean they were caught off guard.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 2:26 pm 2:26 pm
MNM:”Hopefully this will fizzle out and Obama has learned a thing or two so that if and when the next one rolls around, one that is far more deadly, he reacts in a rational timely manner.”
So if the administration handled this exactly right – no over reaction, good coordination of local control, no impact on the economy, etc – you hope he learns “a thing or two.” Got it.
And I’d love to see how you’d shut down the Mexican border and do extended screening of every incoming citizen without mobilizing the military.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 2:29 pm 2:29 pm
I’m concerned that he’s not alarmed.
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | April 27, 2009, 2:31 pm 2:31 pm
MNM:”Other countries were warning against travel to Mexico last week. ”
Citation please. The European Union just made that official announcement today. I suppose you saw a very official press conference with a spokesman who said he wouldn’t visit Mexico at the moment or something.
Posted by: jhw539 | April 27, 2009, 2:33 pm 2:33 pm
Swine Flu is spread by tea bags.
Posted by: John Stewart | April 27, 2009, 2:34 pm 2:34 pm
Does Obama understand that the GDP isn’t his to spend?
Posted by: Lightduty | April 27, 2009, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm
“Democrats are injecting that term into this to inflame partisan rhetoric. No one has suggested such a thing.”
What do you think shutting down the borders entails?
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 2:41 pm 2:41 pm
Hey Tapper,
I’ve been working on swine and cattle diseases for 3 years. My job was funded by Homeland Security. Guess which president cost me my job in February?
Not exactly the change I was hoping for. Get your facts right!
Posted by: DJK | April 27, 2009, 2:41 pm 2:41 pm
Citation please. The European Union just made that official announcement today. I suppose you saw a very official press conference with a spokesman who said he wouldn’t visit Mexico at the moment or something.
Posted by: jhw539 | Apr 27, 2009 2:33:50 PM
——-
This is only a partial listing of the world response that was ahead of ours. Some euro countries are at the bottom of this list. It is easy to google and find many more examples without me spoon feeding you, especially since I cannot post the links themselves.
Canada CBC news advisory as of 4/23, travel advisory given
4/25 Geneva: via Breitbart
Japan’s biggest international airport stepped up health surveillance, while the Philippines said it may quarantine passengers with fevers who have been to Mexico. Health authorities in Thailand and Hong Kong said they were closely monitoring the situation.
Asia has fresh memories of an outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, which hit countries across the region and severely crippled global air travel.
Indonesia, China, Thailand, Vietnam and other countries have also seen a number of human deaths from H5N1 bird flu, the virus that researchers have until now fingered as the most likely cause of a future pandemic.
The Dutch government’s Institute for Public Health and Environment has advised any traveler who returned from Mexico since April 17 and develops a fever over 101.3 degrees Fahrenheit (38.5 Celsius) within four days of arriving in the Netherlands to stay at home.
The Polish Foreign Ministry has issued a statement that recommends that Poles postpone any travel plans to regions where the outbreak has occurred until it is totally contained.
The Stockholm-based European Center for Disease Prevention and Control said earlier Saturday it shared the concerns about the swine flu cases and stood ready to lend support in any way possible.
___
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm
Has anyone noticed that the message coming from the politicians about swine flu is dramatically different from that of the health community? Doctors and public health nurses are telling people not to worry – this flu is no different then any other flu in any other year. Public health in Arizona is telling people to not even go to the doctor if they think they have swine flu – they’re saying treat it like any other flu.
Posted by: Au contraire | April 27, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm
What do you think shutting down the borders entails?
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr 27, 2009 2:41:01 PM
———
Are you deliberately obtuse?
Do you think border screening equals border closing?
There are a defined set of steps that CDC follows. Where border closings fall in that I cannot and DID NOT say.
However the point is that unlike other countries we did not even institute screening at the borders.
Obama did not DO ANYTHING except play golf and monitor the situation. On the 23rd WHO set up a pandemic war room. Other countries instituted screening, and now because Obama couldn’t do anything at all, europe is warning against travel to the US.
Even if this fizzles out, which we all hope it will, these warnings against travel to the US are sure to cost the economy far more than any screening program might have.
Obama has a real problem with doing a cost/benefit analysis when he personally does not benefit.
Get ready for national health care. Let’s get Obama to tell us now how many deaths are required or acceptable before a treatment or vaccine is developed?
Read Tom Daschle’s book on rationed health care. A real eye opener. This is the guy Obama wanted to run the national health care system. The one that told Obama not to give us the details because we would never let congress pass it.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm
This is the job and specialty of private industry. Let capitalism do its job. Stop putting so many hurdles and taxes in the way of research and development. when a company finds a treatment let them make money off of it.
Posted by: Matt | April 27, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm
“Do you think border screening equals border closing?”
Do you have an idea how many people cross thru our borders each and every day?
“There are a defined set of steps that CDC follows. Where border closings fall in that I cannot and DID NOT say.”
That’s because you haven;t been given that talking point yet.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 3:02 pm 3:02 pm
“Are you always this easily stampeded by the media into demanding protection from daddy government?”
ROFLMAO!
A low blow but certainly deserved.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 3:04 pm 3:04 pm
“Obama has a real problem with doing a cost/benefit analysis when he personally does not benefit.”
You’re trying to engage in some kind of reaction by Obama evaluational jump-rope where you’ll criticize his level of response to every potential threat in order to try and reverse engineer a Katrina type PR failure.
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm
Just breaking across the wires.
Now that we are seen as contaminated Russia, China, Kazakstan and other assorted countries in the region are banning imports of meat products from the US.
More economic damage from Obama lack of response.
It doesn’t matter if this fizzles out. Obama screwed up.
This virus cannot even be transmitted by eating meat, we think, but the opportunity to damage our economy is irresistible to other countries, whenever an excuse is at hand.
His inexperience and inability to manage this problem, even if it turns out to be nothing,
is going to cost us millions and millions in lost trade.
His lack of response to this episode is evident worldwide.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 3:14 pm 3:14 pm
Another catastrophe, another opportunity for the admin.
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | April 27, 2009, 3:17 pm 3:17 pm
“Obama has a real problem with doing a cost/benefit analysis when he personally does not benefit.”
You’re trying to engage in some kind of reaction by Obama evaluational jump-rope where you’ll criticize his level of response to every potential threat in order to try and reverse engineer a Katrina type PR failure.
Posted by: Skip | Apr 27, 2009 3:12:55 PM
————
Do you think your imagination passes for analysis Ryan? Is this what you do when you cannot speak to the matter at hand. All I ever hear from you is insults and blah blah blah
Obama now needs to figure out the ban on meat exports into the cost of this. But of course that won’t cost him a dime, just the hardworking farmers who produce the meat. No problem for him though.
So now we have bans on our meat products, and advice to not travel to the US.
Every country understands Obama’s screw up except dems in this one.
It does not matter if this fizzles out. The damage to our economy will be widespread.
Now Obama is too inexperienced and stupid to have figured that into his cost/benefit analysis on how to handle this.
Ryan;
You have no validity in your arguments since you told us that the Nazi’s were examples of how to treat prisoners according to the Geneva convention. It shows how far you go to simply argue for whatever Obama’s position is.
I am sure Obama agrees with you on the Nazi thing though given his anti-semite history.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 3:23 pm 3:23 pm
Hold on.. Janet’s concerned about which border.. North/South?? Canada/Mexico??
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | April 27, 2009, 3:26 pm 3:26 pm
“Now Obama is too inexperienced and stupid to have figured that into his cost/benefit analysis on how to handle this.”
Right. He didn’t look in his crystal hamburger ball.
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 3:31 pm 3:31 pm
27 Apr 2009 19:05:00 GMT
Source: Reuters
* Russia, China ban pork imports from Mexico, U.S.
* Philippines, Serbia, Kazakhstan also slap on bans
* WHO says no danger of swine flu from contact with pork
* U.S. groups also worry Russia ban could affect beef
* Some reports of added inspection slowing trade (Adds comments from U.S. Trade Representative)
————–
Add that to the travel bans and our economy is damaged by Obama stupidity yet again.
The rest of the world is playing him for the inexperienced idiot that he is.
The Obama response is a failure all around.
His lack of immediate response, well behind the rest of the world, opened the door for this opportunistic response.
2 thumbs up yet again on that Obama anti-america strategy.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 3:34 pm 3:34 pm
“You have no validity in your arguments since you told us that the Nazi’s were examples of how to treat prisoners according to the Geneva convention.”
You had asked if any country we had fought had abided by the Geneva conventions
Nazi Germany treatment of US/British POWs for the most part did that though war crimes did occur. As did Italy.
The Nazis were a great deal more brutal with the Soviets.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 3:36 pm 3:36 pm
“Now that we are seen as contaminated Russia, China, Kazakstan and other assorted countries in the region are banning imports of meat products from the US.”
MOSCOW – RUSSIA, fearing the spread of swine flu, on Sunday banned meat imports from Mexico, several US states and nine Latin American nations, a spokesman for Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said.
It imposed the immediate ban after PM Putin ordered the establishment of a special commission to deal with the threat of swine flu, although no cases have yet been reported in Russia.
Imports of all raw meat and meat products from Mexico and the US states of Texas, California and Kansas shipped after April 21 are banned ‘until special instructions,’ health officials said.
Banned, too, are imports of raw pork from Guatemala, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Nicaragua, Panama and El Salvador shipped after April 21.
Pork imported from the US states of Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Florida is also banned.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 3:40 pm 3:40 pm
Just take two aspirin, lie down, and throw a few billion at it. What we need is a swine flu czar. Isn’t there someone available from Clinton’s old staff or Harvard, or both?
Posted by: N'erdowell | April 27, 2009, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm
“His inexperience and inability to manage this problem, even if it turns out to be nothing,
is going to cost us millions and millions in lost trade.”
Everyone give MNM a hand from trying to make a mountain out of this molehill.
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 3:52 pm 3:52 pm
I hope there is no pork problem in the Congress.
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | April 27, 2009, 3:54 pm 3:54 pm
“Now that we are seen as contaminated Russia, China, Kazakstan and other assorted countries in the region are banning imports of meat products from the US.”
MOSCOW – RUSSIA, fearing the spread of swine flu, on Sunday banned meat imports from Mexico, several US states and nine Latin American nations, a spokesman for Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said.
27 Apr 2009 19:05:00 GMT
Source: Reuters
* Russia, China ban pork imports from Mexico, U.S.
* Philippines, Serbia, Kazakhstan also slap on bans
* WHO says no danger of swine flu from contact with pork
* U.S. groups also worry Russia ban could affect beef
* Some reports of added inspection slowing trade (Adds comments from U.S. Trade Representative)
Thank you Ryan for reiterating that Obama’s idiot policy is hurting our economy.
Or were you comparing our response to those of other latin america 3rd world countries.
In any event you bet he screwed this up and it will cost our agriculture, travel and possibly health industry over and over again.
Obama’s inexperience and stupidity in his visible non-response is a major screw up.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm
“This virus cannot even be transmitted by eating meat, we think, but the opportunity to damage our economy is irresistible to other countries, whenever an excuse is at hand.”
Since the virus cannot be transmitted by meat did you ever consider that guys like you complaining loudly about apparently nothing might damage the meat industries as much as the Russians?
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 3:57 pm 3:57 pm
Since the virus cannot be transmitted by meat did you ever consider that guys like you complaining loudly about apparently nothing might damage the meat industries as much as the Russians?
Posted by: Skip | Apr 27, 2009 3:57:00 PM——-
———-
You are so right. It isn’t that every country on par with ours, that do not border Mexico, reacted more assertively than the US. It isn’t that the World Health Organization set up a Pandemic war room on the 23rd, again while we did nothing, it isn’t that europe advised against travel to the US while again , we did nothing,
While Obama golfed, and monitored the situation……..
It is all because of our little posts here that these bans took place. The chinese and russians read jakes column and responses and decided to ban meat.
Obama did nothing and hurt the travel industry. Obama continued to flounder with the situation and now we have banned meat products that will cost our ag industry dearly.
We are only hoping that at the same time this still fizzles out and his lack of response does not have a devastating health price.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 4:04 pm 4:04 pm
“It isn’t that the World Health Organization set up a Pandemic war room on the 23rd, again while we did nothing”
Would that be the same World Health Organization whose healthcare ranking figures you dismissed last week?
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 4:07 pm 4:07 pm
“Obama continued to flounder with the situation and now we have banned meat products that will cost our ag industry dearly.”
Well there is no need to try and spread this Russian/Chinese hoax. It will only do more damage. -Unless you have a political soapbox to shout from.
Posted by: Skip | April 27, 2009, 4:09 pm 4:09 pm
“It imposed the immediate ban after PM Putin ordered the establishment of a special commission to deal with the threat of swine flu, although no cases have yet been reported in Russia.”
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr 27, 2009 4:02:50 PM
—————————–
You continue to imitate Obama’s inability to understand the opportunistic assault on trade, via these meat bans by russia.
You imitate his inability to see other consequences of his non-response.
You imitate his inability to accept that these countries are not falling to their knees because of some ridiculous “reset” button and an idiot grin on Obama’s face.
You imitate his inability that there is genuine ill will behind this ban that has nothing to do with the swine flu, but everything to do with our perceived lack of response.
A lack that was recognized by europe, our allies, first when they cautioned against travel to the US.
The phrase you repeat is a meaningless excuse to damage our ag industry.
You do get that don’t you???
The ban on US Imports is not limited to Russia.
27 Apr 2009 19:05:00 GMT
Source: Reuters
* Russia, China ban pork imports from Mexico, U.S.
* Philippines, Serbia, Kazakhstan also slap on bans
* WHO says no danger of swine flu from contact with pork
* U.S. groups also worry Russia ban could affect beef
* Some reports of added inspection slowing trade (Adds comments from U.S. Trade Representative)
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 4:13 pm 4:13 pm
“All those little porky things that the House put in, the money for the National Mall or the sexually transmitted diseases or the flu pandemic, they’re all out,” Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) said in February.
Posted by: Senator Chuck Schumer killed pandemic funding | April 27, 2009, 4:21 pm 4:21 pm
jhw539….Accusing someone other than a Democrat of depending on “daddy government?” LOL, that’s like calling the kettle black…”NEW flu strain?” in other words we have no idea how serious this is..you keep comparing it a ordinary flu bug..And yes, the death count is up to 168 in Mexico just a matter of time before you begin to see death in America…Every other country seems to be handling this correctly we on the other hand are using “passive monitoring of the border” and GET THIS, personal responsibility, yeah like that’s going to work, as per Napolitano..If this is contained, it won’t be because of Obama and Company but every other Country including Mexico..
Posted by: Parallax View | April 27, 2009, 5:09 pm 5:09 pm
“A lack that was recognized by europe, our allies, first when they cautioned against travel to the US.”
You mean the advisory that was issued today?
You must have been a real trip in the lead up to Y2K.
Do you still have rations stored from that one?
Posted by: Ryan C | April 27, 2009, 5:10 pm 5:10 pm
So were not to be alarmed by this, really i think that it should be more of an alarm. I think that we should take this as more than a concern if this hits our states and causes a massive breakout than people will see that this is serious. So what is our president going to do now.
Posted by: Daniel | April 27, 2009, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm
Aren’t we getting close to running out of GDP to spend? Obama certainly isn’t running out of causes to which he wants to commit taxpayer money…
Posted by: tjp612 | April 27, 2009, 6:34 pm 6:34 pm
By next week, we’ll all be on here talking about what a great job Obama and others did to prevent this outbreak from becoming a pandemic. We’ll see your typical pat-on-the-back news stories about how they prevented the virus from spreading … meanwhile, most doctors aren’t even testing for swine flu. Try calling your doctor and telling them you think you have swine flu — they’ll tell you to treat it like any other flu.
Posted by: Miss M | April 27, 2009, 6:35 pm 6:35 pm
Gee, I thought I had swine flu when they passed the porkulus package! Maybe Obama was trying to spread the pork in Mexico as well.
Oh well, at least teleprompter is back to it’s dirty tricks again….lolol
Posted by: TxBoB | April 27, 2009, 6:49 pm 6:49 pm
“A lack that was recognized by europe, our allies, first when they cautioned against travel to the US.”
You mean the advisory that was issued today?
You must have been a real trip in the lead up to Y2K.
Do you still have rations stored from that one?
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr 27, 2009 5:10:18 PM
————————
The advisory against travel was issued over the weekend. You are looking at the updated articles dates. Read earlier posts where I documented it, or don’t, you will argue regardless.
The point you avoid is that because of Obama’s lack of response, behind that of most of the rest of the world, we will pay through the nose.
Europe advises against travel to the US and our economy suffers.
Assorted countries stop imports of meat from US.
China, Russia, Serbia, Phillipines ad nauseum, are all taking opportunistic shots to damage our agriculture industry.
They could only get away with it because Obama was too stupid to understand the full implications of this.
We all hope it fizzles out, but even if it does the economic damage will be huge.
Those are the facts.
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 6:51 pm 6:51 pm
By next week, we’ll all be on here talking about what a great job Obama and others did to prevent this outbreak from becoming a pandemic. We’ll see your typical pat-on-the-back news stories about how they prevented the virus from spreading … meanwhile, most doctors aren’t even testing for swine flu. Try calling your doctor and telling them you think you have swine flu — they’ll tell you to treat it like any other flu.
Posted by: Miss M | Apr 27, 2009 6:35:22 PM
————–
I hope that is true as far as the health part is concerned.
However Obama will still have some explaining to do as to how he responded so slowly that other countries perceived travel to the US and imports of our products to be hopelessly contaminated.
He will need to explain how he let this economic damage take place and was too inexperienced to foresee this possibility…..
EVEN THOUGH similar import and travel bans were in place during the SARS virus scares, just not against the US.
Obama is too stupid to learn from the recent past that this is what happens when you fail to react!!
Posted by: MNM | April 27, 2009, 6:56 pm 6:56 pm
wow…….it’s a good thing paranoia isn’t contagious. everyone on the board would have been infected.
Posted by: realitycheck0057 | April 27, 2009, 7:03 pm 7:03 pm
MNM
What action(s) should Obama have taken to ensure that Europeans did not impose a travel warning or some countries to impose a ban on the importation of (some) US pork products?
Posted by: gary | April 27, 2009, 7:51 pm 7:51 pm
Imagine that………………..Obama wants to spend spend spend even with this problem. How about something useful, like cracking down on illegals Obama? Push for a hand washing campaign? Hmm, Comrad Obama.
Posted by: PresGov | April 27, 2009, 8:56 pm 8:56 pm
This makes sense. Most of the money will go to academics and they are BO supporters. Time to pay off another constituency
Posted by: OBQuiet | April 27, 2009, 10:53 pm 10:53 pm
“Truth is, since peaking in 1964, federal funding on sciences as a percentage of GDP has gone down under every President, Democratic or Republican, except for Ronald Reagan.”
What a silly statistic to use. Clinton funded a massive increase in the NIH budget. Also, the GDP increased greatly during his presidency.
Neither statement applies to the Bush presidency, who froze the NIH budget.
I’m curious, Mr. Tapper. Why did you decide to use “science funding as a percentage of the GDP” as a relevant statistic?
Posted by: RickD | April 28, 2009, 1:07 am 1:07 am
Why don’t we have a Secretary of Health and Human Services yet…?
Here is the Swine Flu creating a pandemic threat to a level 4 of 6.
What is the hold up on confirming Kathleen Sebelius???
Could it be politics???… Could it possibly be the Republican party of NO…
holding up the process…
Thanks guys…
Posted by: theafalcon200 | April 28, 2009, 4:56 am 4:56 am
That’s very good news for scintific reseach!we all know it is the science and technology bring us the wonderfull life.we should invest,and it do deserved.
Posted by: Jackon | April 28, 2009, 7:51 am 7:51 am
This is a golden opportunity to jam more spending down our throats. The expression “never let a good crisis pass” applies. More taxes for everybody.
Posted by: Roy011 | April 28, 2009, 9:19 am 9:19 am
“This makes sense. Most of the money will go to academics and they are BO supporters. Time to pay off another constituency”
Don’t forget about the Green crowd…I have a sinking feeling much of this (if/when expended) will be applied to the (already extremely highly subsidized) alternative energy sector.*
*I am not an opponent of science and alternative energy sources – I am a proponent of both. I am an opponent of the government picking winners and losers.
Posted by: tjp612 | April 28, 2009, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm
I can’t believe any thinking person would consider it a bad idea to increase the funding for science, as many here commenting have.
To those individuals who see increased science funding as negative, even if you doesn’t believe in evolution, surely if you or a loved one have ever benefitted from anti-biotics, an operation with anethesia or not had food poisoning in a while, you can understand the importance of science.
Try to look at the positive, that these will be good-paying jobs for Americans. That the research done today might save your or a loved ones’ life tomorrow. Now smile, our common sense and science tells us it is very healthy for us to.
Posted by: Lydia | April 28, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm
Lydia,
I think you miss the point in that (a.) Obama continues to commit funds that we (the U.S.) do not have (without borrowing, which we are doing in unprecendented fashion), and (b.) there are a very limited # of cases where the government has demonstrated efficiency in distribution of funding.
Hard choices need to be made. Yet, this administration does not want to make those choices. Instead, Obama appears intent on mortgaging the future of future generations (and increasing reliance on the government which is also part of the grand plan).
But hey, what does Obama care? He and his family are financially set for generations to come…the rest of us, well, not so much.
Posted by: tjp612 | April 28, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm
I feel sorry about the bad news-the flu.I think wearing a garlic necklace could be useful for someone who doesn’t want to get the flu.I guess it’s worth to try.
Posted by: Parmis | April 29, 2009, 3:42 am 3:42 am
This is only a partial listing of the world response that was ahead of ours. Some euro countries are at the bottom of this list. It is easy to google and find many more examples without me spoon feeding you, especially since I cannot post the links themselves.
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