President Holds Open Door For Prosecutions of Bush Officials For Interrogation Policies, Truth Commission

There he goes critizing the U.S. infront of the foreigners! You really have to wonder whose best interest he has in mind.

Did anyone notice if BHO bowed before this king? He is much shorter than Obama.

I simply cannot stand to watch “our” President on TV anymore.

Our moral standings?! These people we are dealing with have no moral standings. They behead people while video taping it. I am sorry but it is tactics like this that kept us safe. It appears to me Obama doesn’t care about our country, only his imagie.

Good. This is the way it should be handled.

I would also like to add…. I would like to remind those that if they think that these interrogation methods are so harsh or considered “tortue”, that the people in the pentagon, in the two towers who were coughing, trying to catch their breath, sucking in smoke and hot ash, or jumping from a window, knowing they were going to die, is that torture? Or the people on a plane, knowing it was hi-jacked, and that the plane will be used as a weapon, afraid for their lives, calling their loved ones to say goodbye, is that torture?

If the US is going to talk the talk then it better walk the walk. Of course we shouldn’t start torturing people when we become fearful.

I’d very much like to see hearings and prosecutions. It would be the greatest gift we could receive going into the 2010 elections.

Ddh2,
Even if that is true that they have no moral standings that is simply a justification to bring out the basest forms of ourselves. What you are advocating is torture for revenge as much as for keeping ourselves safe. Other interrogation methods have proven just as effective, so why use torture? And at the same time it turns away allies of ours and gives propaganda to help terrorist groups recruit. Torture at best is a short term gain but a long term loss even without the moral issues of its use involved.

How in the world in this super charged atmosphere would any ‘investigation’ be fair in any way shape or form. Give it up already. President Bush endured an unscrupulous and non-stop wave of biased outbursts for most of his tenure in the Whitehouse. It’s time for Move-On to move on.

“THE DOOR IS OPEN” oooooh aaaaaah
“So you gonna walk thru it?”
(shrugs shoulders, scratches butt)

From the mails above, we can really see the split in America. Those who have ‘lost their moral bearings’ citing past experiences and those who are standing firm to the founding principles of the America constitution, no matter the past experiences.
which side are you on?

What Obama is saying – and I agree 100 percent – is that his administration will not indict their predecessors but some independent commission might.
This should not be a matter of left or right. People were tortured and killed by the Bush administration, some of them innocent. It is all pretty well documented. We are not talking Nazi Germany or Iraq pre-2003, but it is bad enough as it is.
Is it written somewhere that being a Republican means favoring torture?

Colin Powell PLEASE speak with the President regarding this matter.

1.These interrogation methods are not , in my view, torture. Period!
2. If you think they are that’s your opinion but you don’t feed into the world frenzy of going back and not forward,
3. And you don’t tell the world all

yes… hold them to a standard that this country was founded on and the barbarism the founders wished to be independent from. TAR & FEATHER time! set the story and history straight. the Bush regime was the worst ever… the biggest enemy of the people in history… we should not allow it to happen again.

Great News PROSECUTE AWAY!!

Some incredible comments here from the Right. It seems like you Bush supporters are more interested in saving face than you are of what is right or wrong, moral or immoral, just or criminal. You’d rather be American than right. You’re part of the problem.

ahhh the delusions of americans.before anyone goes off an an anti foreigner tangent,i am an american.but i am not a deluded one.i have no wool over my eyes concerncing the heritage of a nation founded by rich white land owners who didn’t want to pay taxes.people who pushed for freedom of their religion and then as first act of congress stated that every native american will be issued bibles lol.a country that proclaimed to be land of the free…which was the last modern nation to abolish slavery and the only one to fight a war over it.wanna know how great the united states is?research what happened to the irish immigrants who got off the boat during the civil war.ask a native american about the greatness of america.ask an old black man who can remember segregation(which btw only ended less than 50 years ago).
that being said,obama is catering to the clamour being raised by his party hard liners for not prosecuting the bush leaguers.but the truth is both parties work for international bankers anyway so it doesn’t really matter who you voted for.so go do more chest beating about how he is ruining this country.kinda hard to ruin a country with a track record like we have,where the only thing great about us is our level of delusion about our past and our present.read a history book instead of a website.

OBAMA IS ONLY DOING THIS TO DEVERT THE ATTENTION OFF OF HIS FAILED POLICIES! HE AND HIS CROONIES, TAX CHEATS AND WHATEVER ELSE THEY ARE GULITY OF!

I try to live by a rather simple moral creed:
“Do unto other as you would have others do unto you; not as other have do to you.”
I do not believe in the ‘ends justify the means’ mentality. It’s a cheap rationalization that undermines any good done. We can’t stop terrorism by stopping terrorist acts. We stop terrorism be not making people want to be terrorist.

the statement ” bush kept us safe” reveals the sissy, paranoid that live by fear. how safe are those whom lost retirement? lost their jobs? lost their homes and now their children are homeless? Soldiers that lost their limbs and lives over a false pretense war? What about the women that are raped. the citizens that are beaten and robbed. the children that are molested and murdered. AMERICA is so safe and we can thank “Torture” for that!

D22
What about when Bush Hugged and Kissed the Saudi Prince and When he looked into Putins eyes and Saw his soul!

This is a non-answer. If you want the Bush administrators prosecuted, you see this as a green light. If you don’t want the Bush administrators prosecuted, you see this as a flip-flop. Justice delayed is justice denied. The timing on this statement is awful. This kind of prosecution would only invite retribution when the political tables are turned. There is no political will for prosecution right now. If the Democrats had acted long ago, there would have been the political will for prosecution, but not the political power for enforcement. Now that Obama has the political power for enforcement, he lacks the political will. Some people think that prosecuting an Executive Branch member would be like appearing on the People’s Court. They are deluded. No one is above the law, but certain individuals ARE the law. Obama doesn’t have the stomach for this. He is paying lip service – much ado about nothing.

This is my first post here, and I am not even a US citizen. I chose to legally immigrate to this country knowing how it bad it is out there in other places. If you get attacked, you dont sit and talk constitution. PERIOD.
If these terrorists arent treated the way they were, I am sure they would find a way to murder thousands of innocent people. Obama has no idea what evil minded terrorists are capable of. Stop the BS.

I don’t see this as “retribution” or “looking backwards.” And I applaud Barak Obama for having the guts to stand up and admit when this country has been so clearly in the wrong.
The truth of the matter is that we will never be seen as anything but a joke by the other major players on the world stage if we don’t stop our “Do as we say, not as we do” attitude. I would far rather the American government owned up to their own questionable/illegal activities, rather than ending up having a world court have to do it for us.
But what I do not want to see is the lower level personnel (who actually carried out these violations of international law) being used as scape-goats for the high level members that condoned these violations.

Prosecution is actually a good idea. It will ensure that both sides of the story are finally told — accurately. It could also end with acquittals and innocent rulings.

CLOAK: right on. spoken like a human whom lives with ones head out of the sand. educated and conscious. its a hard road wading through the ignorant.

I firmly believe, right or wrong in their approach, that these men and women DID WHAT THEY BELIEVED WAS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM TERRORIST – PEOPLE WHO WILLING WANT TO ATTACK US. It will be a sad day when we prosecute those that were doing what they thought right in the interests of the American people.

Darn right … President Obama does not “torture” bad guys (not PC to call them terrorists any more) by scaring them and getting water up their noses.
Instead, he flies drones into Pakistan to blow up bad guys, along with the women and children they are hiding behind.
Then he orders the execution of three poor stupid black Muslim teenagers from Somalia who (according to the media) were coerced into acting as “pirates”. No trials, just bullets through their heads.
Media hates Bush. Media loves Obama. Go figure.

Thank you President Obama! And please make sure that cheney, bush, rove, gonzales, perle, and wolfowitz are all at the top of the list! All deserve LONG prison sentences.

What’s sad is that for all the torture the Bush administration did, it did not apparently produce much in the way of results. It was reported that two senior al Qaida officers were waterboarded over two hundred times between the two of them. Over 200 times! If that particular interrogation method worked, why did it take that many sessions? Heads should roll on this one. And not some mid-level flunkies used as scapegoats. Head to the top. The buck stops there, right?

He said he was open to the idea, he didn’t commit to it… he has pushed that responsibility off to Holder… typical Obama move.. can’t take the heat.
Kinda funny that this story surfaced just as Geithner is being drilled for the Tarp funds that have been misused.
I think this is just something to keep us off track from the failing economy.

To keep this in perspective, these individuals who were tortured are perhaps the biggest advocates of torture, but they don’t use any of the sissy sleep deprivation or waterboarding techniques, rather, they routinely kidnap, brutalize and behead their enemies.

The bottom line is that these people were DOING WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS RIGHT TO PROCTECT AMERICANS FROM TERRORISTS – PEOPLE THAT WANT TO ATTACK AND KILL US. Their approaches may have been wrong, but I would never questions their intentions. To prosecute them would be wrong. Having been part of 9/11, I am proud of the people doing all they can for us…even those of us that are clueless.

“To keep this in perspective, these individuals who were tortured are perhaps the biggest advocates of torture, but they don’t use any of the sissy sleep deprivation or waterboarding techniques, rather, they routinely kidnap, brutalize and behead their enemies.”
Nor do they chest slap, God forbid.

I want the investigations to start at SERE school.

Minneapolis – nobody on here has said anything racist or implied, you are doing a disservice to people who may have a claim of racism…. have you heard of the little boy who cried wolf?
And quite frankly, Americans are tired of hearing false claims of racism, based ONLY on having a different opinion than yourself that has NOTHING to do with race.

Yes, let’s prosecute the people who kept us safe for 8 years. That makes alot of sense. What is Obama’s problem?
He’s not a stupid man so why is he doing this.

Obammie the commie!!!!!

Best Movie Quote for this situation…You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like Honor, Code, Loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “Thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Wonder if Obama’s even seen the movie! LOL!

“There are other memos which shows a success in the CIA with keeping the USA from harm.”
No there is not. Why people like you feel you have “inside info” is laughable. You fancy yourself an arm chair CIA agent me thinks.

“What’s sad is that for all the torture the Bush administration did, it did not apparently produce much in the way of results. It was reported that two senior al Qaida officers were waterboarded over two hundred times between the two of them. Over 200 times!”Posted by: DaveM
Actually, DaveM, the torture did produce results. Prior to 9-11, the CIA knew very little about Al Qaida — once Al Qaida members were captured and tortured, the CIA learned enough to thwart several subsequent attacks in our country and other countries.
Also, the report does not mention that anyone was waterbaorded 200 times — a blogger reported that. If someone had been waterboarded 200 times in one year, don’t you think we’d have heard about it before now? These guys do have attorneys. Why was a complaint never filed? Why hasn’t the attorney gone to the media? It didn’t happen. The blogger made up that “fact” to shock people who won’t scratch their heads and ask the relevant questions — the ones who believe everything they read.

perhaps Obama can ask his new playmates Hugo Chavez or Raul Castro which is the best way to get information from enemies.
Lets not “torture” terrorists who behead people with such inhumane and ghastly methods as pouring water down their nose. Hmmm, I guess I’ve been torturing myself when I go swimming, I too get water in my nose. I should have Bush prosecuted for allowing swimming pools to be built.

Posted by: Ron | Apr 21, 2009 1:52:53 PM
My dear Ron, because it isn’t torture, that’s why. You’re being missled.

Wow. truth commission are next

So now we will get these terrorists to talk with milk and cookies? Let me bake them…I have a killer recipe!

first you right wingers denounce torture and claim you not only are against it but were not doing it, now you are saying its ok… hypocrites

The comments on this blog are behind belief. People who would give up their freedoms at the drop of a pin.
Torture is not a useful tactic and, even if it were, is not useful because it will be turned against us.

Jane: Most of us who want America to survive as our founding fathers established it do remember 911 however we have this liberal cancer invading every aspect of our lives. I predict that next year this time America as we knew it will be dead if this path continues.

Obama is preparing to prosecute his political opposition. This is disgusting and disgraceful and one of the first nails in the coffin of a once great Republic. Thank you enlightened voters, you really stuck it to us this time.

openminded wrote: “Echo5, according to Karl Rove and Vice President Cheney (who I suspect you do not believe)”
You suspect right, nothing Rove or Cheney says carries weight with us. When this unfolds, and it will, we will see just how reliable Mr. Rove and Cheney are. Torture does not work, and any professional in the business will tell you the same.

Not only is he definitively NOT a patriot, but I get the distinct feeling that he’s an agent for a foreign power.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea has populist appeal, but back in the deepest corner of the President’s mind must that scary little history-altering word must be looming large – precedent.
I’ll be amazed if this little rocket ever leaves the launch pad with a full payload.

rplat…you made a profound statement referring to America as a Republic…which is in fact what we were founded on…somehow along the way some dimwits think a democracy is a fair type of government and now we have this ill suited little dictator calling the shots. He is entry level management at best but unfortunately he is learning at the expense of Americans.

Posted by: Eddie | Apr 21, 2009 2:05:50 PM
Who was drowned? Nobody died? did I miss something… being drowned is death from suffocation caused by a liquid entering the lungs and preventing the absorption of oxygen leading to cerebral hypoxia and cardiac arrest.

I am an American, born and raised. I have one question for some of you that talk about our Constitution. How many of you actually have read it and at least partially understand it. This administration is whittling away at our very rights and you are worried about a bunch of people that would gladly kill you and your family because you live here. I personally could care less about terrorists rights if it means saving one American life. If oyu have never been in the trenches then you need to keep quiet as you really have no way of understanding the true issues.

an independent commission needs to be appointed. These people shamelessly broke laws that have been in effect for a long time. These are war crimes as defined by the Geneva Convention and America will have no moral authority in the world until we know what happened and who broke the laws.

Just yesterday, asked by a reporter as to why the administration was not seeking to “hold accountable” Bush administration lawyers who may have “twisted the law,” White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said, “the president is focused on looking forward, that’s why.”
I still don’t understand why the Obama’s focus on looking forward has any freaking thing whatsoever to do with the REQUIREMENT for the Justice Department to follow the rule of law, and prosecute individuals who break the law. What is the point of a system of justice and jurisprudence, if the entire thing can be thwarted by the DESIRE of a prosecuter to seek charges?
Worse, how can you even expect other people to suffer the scrutiny of the law, if this scrutiny is not consistent and IRREVELANT of whether some administrator wants to “look forward” or simply hold no-one accountable because that adminstration is no longer in office? I mean there is NOTHING that I’m aware of that grants this perogative in the context of equal protection, due process and the rule of law.
How far have we slipped down the rabbit-hole of this fascist country in denial anway? Christ.

Livvy wrote:”an independent commission needs to be appointed. These people shamelessly broke laws that have been in effect for a long time. These are war crimes as defined by the Geneva Convention and America will have no moral authority in the world until we know what happened and who broke the laws”
Well said. You are a voice of reason in a sea of ignorance. Plus, what you wrote is exactly what is going to happen.

Obama doesn’t seem to get it…he is in the hot seat now! Quit blamin’ everyone and everything that happened before him!

“If we adopt the torture of our enemies, then we become the enemy. If we are to be a world leader, we need to led by example. Otherwise, we will be the world bully.” Posted by: MikeMo1947
We have not adopted the torture methods of our enemies — we haven’t come anywhere close to the horrific methods they use. If anything, the US has established new, more humane strategies for effective interrogation. Nobody’s fingernails were pulled out. No body was starved. No body was assaulted, lost a finger or a limb, no body was left to rot for months in a dark, poorly ventilated cell or hole. These terrorists had medical care, three meals and two snacks each day and they were housed under conditions far superior to most of the prisons our enemies maintain.

It was because of torture people flocked to fight in Iraq and killed our soldiers. Those who were involved in these brutal actions must be prosecuted immediately.

For those critizing Obama for being a wimp in foreign relations, you are extremely judgmental. While it is a possibility that Obama may not succeed in the method he is using, can you name me a president that was successful with North Korea, Iran, Cuba, and Venezuela. None of these countries have agreed to anything we wanted. Personally, I am glad he is using a different approach since previous methods failed. That doesn’t mean he will succeed, but we should have a clear answer by the time the next election rolls around. If he doesn’t convince any of they to make real progress, then we should fire him like we did all other presidents that failed on this task.

Mike…you know they won’t cry out for the pirates…now the kid seems to suddenly become 2 yrs younger and will be “tried” as a juvinelle…how special is that?

I experienced harsher twchniques as a fratenity pledge. What technique used on the animal that beheaded journalist Daniel Pearl, Khaled Sheikh Mohamed, would be torture????
Will there be prosecutions of Geithner in 4 years for exceeding Constitutional authority?

Conservative Gal:”now the kid seems to suddenly become 2 yrs younger and will be “tried” as a juvinelle”
Where did you hear he will be tried as a juvenile? That’s big news – where did you hear that announcement? I heard he was 16, but no one other than those angling to be his counsel has seriously suggested he’s going the JV route.

Speaking of war crimes, there should be an investiagtion into who let Hillary into the deadly combat zone where she was fire upon. Maybe she can lead the Truth Commissiion.

Conservative Gal:”now the kid seems to suddenly become 2 yrs younger and will be “tried” as a juvinelle”
Where did you hear he will be tried as a juvenile? That’s big news – where did you hear that announcement? I heard he was 16, but no one other than those angling to be his counsel has seriously suggested he’s going the JV route.
Posted by: jhw539 | Apr 21, 2009 2:26:31 PM ————————
I’m betting she herd it on Hannity. He is very good at spitting out innuendoes and accusations without any sort of proof or basis.

So Obama wants to prosecute those who developed harsh techniques used on terrorist.
But it’s OK for him to order the bombing of villages looking for terrorist.
One day perhaps Obama will be prosecuted for war crimes.
He will likely blame someone else.

God Good – imagine what the left wing of today would have done to FDR – bombing the occupied territories of Europe and poor Harry Truman for nuking Japan – imagne the the ACLU on his ass.

if weed was legal there would be no torture bush is a fake he cheated and made a war so he could support his coke habbit ever seen american gangster makes you wonder about his choices…

earth_not_flat —-tell us what does work! Bet sayin’ please doesn’t.

I always find it funny that Republican’s in these blogs completely forget what it means to be American because they are too busy wrapping themselves up in the American flag. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that you lead by example. For the last 8 years Bush has made a mockery of the USA, and most of you blindly followed. I’m sure if Bush had started a nuclear war you would have rationalized that as being “American” too.

our president’s priorities continue to be screwed up…..Hugo and Adminjihad like it though….

War criminals just give war a bad name. It’s really tragic.

Cool, then we would get to hear about how the torture techniques actually worked. Something the media will never let us hear about.

actually, obama is not for prosecuting bush/cheney inc.
fortunately, this decision is not his to make… it is up to the Justice Department… and if they don’t look into the lawbreaking by the last administration, it will be a travesty… bush and cheney are most likely war criminals, as is rumsfield, yoo, rice, and the rest of them

From what I read in the memos that were released our so called ‘torture’ was not even comparable to what the average American prisoner faces everyday. It is just typical that some people care more about the terrorists than they do about some pot smoker getting gang raped in an American prison.

Eddie
Dropping water down terrorists’ noses is not torture. It’s simply an ingenious way to extract vital info from scumbags without actually harming them.

Thank you Fascist Hyena.
I am so sick of people who point fingers at USA for everything. This country has done more for the world than any other country.
For those of you who blame USA, I have news for you. Try to live in a place like Afghanistan or Sudan, or Iran and blame that country or leader for the ills of life and see what happens.
All the talk about “Change” and “Hope” is only to fool the people and make them think that there is something wrong with USA and get political points to grab power.
I like people of USA for the independent thinkers that they are. Thats why I chose to come here. It is sad to see that many millions of people have fallen into trap of “Change-Hope charisma” just like the other countries.
People, think what would you do if you or your family is attacked personally. Or will you sit and talk about Human rights or Geneva conventions then?
The same thing happened to USA on 9/11 which I believe led to Bush’s priority of protecting Americans. Just like how I would do anything to protect my child and my family. Wouldnt you too?

He should be fixated on the future and fixing the economy and stopping the obsessive compulsive spending sprees. Enough with the publicity and infatuation of the past Bush administration.

Some conservatives I know refer to Bush and Cheney as the “war criminals”. The information I’d really like to see is what would be revealed if Cheney underwent interrogation. I’m sure we haven’t even begun to fathom the kind of s..t that guy did in our name.

Humiliate Bush and he’s the most popular president in history.
Finally the liberals/progressives have found a god they can believe in.

To not prosecute these individuals gives the wrong impression to the rest of the world that the US is above international laws.
If it is considered torture done by militants or by the US it is still torture and the persons responsible should be held accountable.

I can’t wait for Obama to be out of office so we can arrest he and Biden for some other fictitious crime.

Obama has passed the buck to Holder so that his hands will be clean.
One day it will be Obama’s turn to face the possibility of prosecution.

Wonder who the good ‘ol boys will throw under the bus? GOD I hope it’s Addington!! That would be a real kick, watching him head off to the cement fortress.

Will the Obama administration be tried for blowing up terrorist as they sit in their homes in Pakistan?

This is an outrage. This is not the way to beat jihadists(oops sorry used the word that Obama says we can’t use)
First, Obama and the media trump up claims of “torture”. So Obama gives jihadists a propaganda victory(which enhances jihadists power and appeal to recruit significantly) by essentially agreeing with jihadists that they were subjected to “torture” on a widespread basis(even though only a handful of Al Qaeda were subjected to the enhanced interrogation techniques).
“Torture” which, by the way, saved American lives even if one accepts that the behavior was “torture”(which I do not).
Second, this is the stupidest way to protect the country. CIA officers, military men, and government staff are now going to have to wonder if they are going to be subject to prosecutions or lawsuits as a result of their behavior.
Tying the hands of the CIA and military is what contributed in part to 9/11 taking place in the first place.
Third, Obama has revealed our techniques so jihadists(oops used that word again) can see exactly what we do. This disadvantages us tactically in terms of fighting jihadists.
All in all, a stupid act. But gullible media types and many gullible liberals will love it.

To all who say interrogations were illegal- please go to the Middle East, TAKE your children though!! and spend months there living as ordinary people. No support by the troops, though. Lets see if you will come back alive.
I bow to all who lost their lives during 9/11 – you forgot about them! I bow to all who lost their lives beheaded, tortured, hanged by radical terrorist- you forgot about them. I applouse those who protected this country! Shame on all of you!

Let the prior administration alone. The US has enough problems to deal with. The US economy is sinking, unemployment is high, and banks and automakers are going bankrupt. The Obama administration has nothing better to do but prosecute the prior administration. Let the past administration issues alone. This current administation is looking like a bunch of idiots right now. Stop tearing the country apart and pull it together.

This adminstration is just bunch of clowns!
From Sunday’s This Week….
————————————
What about those who devised the policy, I asked?
“Yeah, but those who devised the policy, he believes that they were, should not be prosecuted either,” Emanuel said.
“And it’s not the place that we go, and as he said in that letter, and I would really recommend people look at the full statement, not the letter, the statement, and that second paragraph: “This is not a time for retribution. It’s a time for reflection. It’s not a time to use our energy and our time in looking back and in a sense of anger and retribution.’ We have a lot to do to protect America. But what people need to know? This practice and technique, we don’t use anymore. We banned it.”
————————————–
two days later, now the president “holds the door open” on prosecutions????
As I have said before, Obama is nothing new or special…he is just another politician.
Well, I guess good old “Rohmie” just loves to be the “truth” face of the administration……

Mr. Obama is putting this country in a very weak position. At least with Bush people feared us because he would never allow another 9/11. But Obama is opening the door for another attack. He better change his mind because he can kiss another term goodbye.

So now he claims to support indictments against torturers and those who approved it? Isn’t this the same guy who, just last week, declared we needed to “stop looking into the past” and just move forward? How long do we expect this latest change of heart to last– a few minutes, maybe an entire day?
I will expect change when I see it.

So called “conservatives” (or perhaps more accurately, “trolls”) it is quite amusing to watch you grow increasingly angry and full of hate, extinguishing the last minute vestiges of logic you theoretically may have had. Your foolish and absurd tirades spiraling into a fathomless pit of inanity are amusing in that they conjure an image loop of someone inserting foot into mouth whilst repeatedly bludgeoning themselves, eternally. Dissent is necessary in a democracy. However, what you engage in is creating an Idiocracy …

How dare Obama! He took an Oath to uphold the Constitution, to protect the country, the people. I trust our military and the people who were close to the activities of this war to do whatever had to be done during the war to stop these horrid terroist, who stopped at nothing to truly tortured our people – and non-military people -

Can anyone in here tell me how punishing anyone for these deeds is going to improve the dismal state of our economy, put people back to work, re-fund our 401K accounts, and make Americans feel safe? Sometimes…you just gotta keep walkin’ obama has played the blame game card way too much to explain his dismal performance.

First he appolgizes to the world for America’s arrogance
Next, he bows to the Saudi King and buddy’s up to Hugo Chavez
He has trippled the national debt and brought us to the brink of Socialism
Now he’s OK with the prosecution of Bush Administration officials for past interrogation practices

its refreshing to see the bush/cheney apologists in an uproar… justice must be forthcoming!
———————————-
earth_not_flat,
Actually the refreshing thing is seeing the hypocrisy of the left so openly exposed once again.
As far as your ranting about an “illegal” war, I guess your up for prosecuting all those in congress who voted for the war. That is the LEGAL war !!!!!
Try, just try to put up some original thoughts instead of the usual Keith Olbermann talking points. I know it’s hard, but maybe you can start by explaining how Obama is not a war criminal; he ordered 3 teens killed in a situation where diplomacy and non-torture techniques were crying out to be applied. Yet he just killed those kids! So how do you resolve that one???? One life was worth killing 3 teenagers for, but millions of lives are NOT worth a little water-boarding. Gotta love you liberal hypocrites!!!!!

it is said these men were tortured under the bush administration.they are all still alive. under the obama administration HE has sent drones into Pakistan deeper than the bush adminstration did and has KILLED REPORTED terrorists and their families in there homes as well as innocent victims. our president should be very careful about how far back he wants to go and how tough he wants to get on the previous administration. once he is out of office he and his people could be next for retribution by their adverseries.The rules are different in war on terror.

earth_not_flat – “right wingers justify breaking the law” – how abot Geitner, Bill Clinton, Sandy Berger, Charles Rangel, William Jefferson, Chris Dodd and how about Teddy’s late night swim?

we are only hearing half the story on this. Do you really think Obama is telling us everything? That will be the first time. I don’t believe anything that comes out of his mouth. VP Chaney has asked the CIA to release the rest of the memos – so the American People can assess the full information. Obama and friends are a bunch of sleazy thugs.

I would be willing to venture that Daniel Pearl’s family would have been overjoyed if he had just been waterboarded and not beheaded on national television. Guess depends on whether you directly affected on this, huh?

Obama must be going down in the polls and wants to divert attention from himself. He definitely said no prosecution before; however now his administration may prosecute. Of course, he greets Chavez with open arms, wants to talk to Iran and open negotiations with Cuba. All human rights abusers, but he will go after his own people who were trying to protect our country. What a poor excuse for a President.

Obama is crossing the line. He is traitor.

Good work Obama! Republicans need to learn: CRIME DON’T PAY.

I think that it was properly stated. The law is the law and no one is above the law. There needs to be a through investigation of who authorized these torture methods and those persons needs to be prosecuted. I think that the person or persons that got us involved in the Iraq war needs to be held accountable. I beleive that getting us involved in this war was clearly a criminal act that caused thousands of innocent lives and someone should be held accountable. The Viet Nam war caused us more than 58000 dead Americans and we accomplished absolutely nothing in Viet Nam. Leaders should be held accountable for their actions like any other American that has broken a law.

Will Obama also prosecute Pelosi for being an accessory?
She knew the techniques were being used.
Maybe if we just wait a few hours BO will change his mind–everything has an expiration date.

OK…repost here…no one seems to have an answer for this…come on o supporters! Tell me:Can anyone in here tell me how punishing anyone for these deeds is going to improve the dismal state of our economy, put people back to work, re-fund our 401K accounts, and make Americans feel safe? Sometimes…you just gotta keep walkin’ obama has played the blame game card way too much to explain his dismal performance.

One wonders if the same measuring stick will be used if we end up attacked due to Democratic tendencies to leave our nation exposed for attack by terrorists. Will the politicians responsible for this be held to account for dereliction of duty or conspiring with the enemy? Perhaps this is something to be considered when these sorts of political games are being bandied about at the expense of past administrations.

Oh I love the “enough said”. So typical of the ignorant Right Wing Troll crowd. Too bad you people are going down…Naw, that’s a lie!! I gives me great pleasure to see the NeoConnies squirm.
Posted by: Bubba |
————————————–
I see the usual neo-marxist nut jobs are out in force today :)

Why attack the Republican party? The subject is Obama wants to prosecute the very people that were fighting the war on terror. That itself is a traitorous act.
Trust me – the soldiers on the battlefield did MUCH worse damage to the Al Queda foot soldiers.. Is he going to drag them in court too?

Don’t you people get it! The POTUS is so smart! He’s playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers. He keeps saying “He wants to look forward, not to the past” The key is can and will continue to do just that, because it’s not his place (the WH) legally to do anything. It’s in the Attorney General, Eric Holder hands legally to prosecute.He(POTUS) wants us (the public to make them prosecute)

“9/12/2001 if someone would have suggested a short 8 years later…..”
….that we would be holding people indefinitely and torturing them with the legal justification concocted by the Bush administration, he would have lost in 2004.

Holding people indefinitely? Do you want to let Khalid Sheik Mohammed go? Has he paid for 9/11 and the pentagon attacks enough in your view?

Bubba
The terrorists LOVE people like you.
I bet they pray to allah everyday to say thank you that liberals now hold the power in America.

The same theme seems to be emerging.
Right wingers don’t care that we tortured, in fact they are “proud” of it.
But release the legal weasel words used by the Bush admin to justify that torture and they howl.

“9/12/2001 if someone would have suggested a short 8 years later…..”
….that we would be holding people indefinitely and torturing them with the legal justification concocted by the Bush administration, he would have lost in 2004.
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr 21, 2009 3:36:51 PM
Your right, the question would have been why have we not killed them yet???

You’re correct.. I applaud the interrogation efforts they used on Mohammmed. I would have went much further and I’m sure 90% of the victims families in 9/11 would have too.

drjohn, Please note that i stated there needs to a through investigation and if warranted, people needs to be held accountable. The end doesn’t allways justify the means. This country doesn’t torture its prisoners of war. If an investigation reveals that someone broke a law in authorizing these tortures. That person or persons should be held accountable.

Ryan C- just remember YOU are equating the USA dunking a terrorists head in the water with Al Queda chopping the heads, hands and various other parts of US soldiers bodies while videotaping it and posting the results on the Internet.
If you don’t see the difference you’re hopeless.

I think you need to examine the issue of whether these methods are indeed “torture”. I would submit that there is a legal basis of at least some people. Whether there is a legal dispute based on the law or politics is really the question. In the end it is subjective.

Obama is Bush with a better smile.
FACT: Since taking office, Mr. Obomba, the commander and chief of the US military, has continued the daily slaughter of men, women and children in multiple countries.
Wake up people! We’re living in the dark ages.

“Ryan C- just remember YOU are equating the USA dunking a terrorists head in the water with Al Queda chopping the heads”
So you’re ok if Al Queda decides to water board our soldiers?

“So you’re ok if Al Queda decides to water board our soldiers?”
Why would I be ok with that? The question itself assumes that I am OK with equal treatment for our soldiers and Al Queada.
Is that what you are ok with?
If we shoot one of them they should be able to shoot one of us?
If we “waterboard” them they should be able to waterboard us?
You need to step back and remember who the “good guys” are. If you truly feel you can morally equivilate the soldiers of the United States with Al-Queda terrorists you have some serious issues with your country and yourself.

“For all the fools like you, Americans have been tortured for YEARS.”
Exactly.
And now that we are guilty of the same thing, we have no moral standing or authority to complain.
Thanks right wingers for defending torture at every turn.

so does that mean we can take a pass on paying income tax. that seems ok with the obama administration. nobody prosecuted for that!

I think that when the next civil uprising begins to happen here (and it might given the oppression being levied against those in this country who believe in God and the founding fathers), those here and elsewhere who actually believe they have the right to prosecute the Bush’s and others part of that administration for protecting our nation, will be some of the first to feel the bite of that revolution.

“Al Queda doesn’t operate by American values either.
Shall we jettison those when they become inconvenient?
”
Oh, Ryan – don’t get me started.. You mean values such as redistribution of wealth? Sucking up to dictators like Chavez and Ortega?
What about the good old American values of class warfare? Prosecuting the only people that actually pay taxes in this country..
Sorry, your koolaid is spilling on the floor.

Michael: When “good guys” do BAD things, don’t they simply become “bad guys”? If two men rob a bank at gunpoint – but it turns out they are police officers – does that make it legal? Does that make it “justified”?
If we – the United States of America – engage in torture and inhumane treatment of prisoners in questionable status, how then are we really different than China or Iran?

I’m not going to lose any sleep over some terrorist (oops, I forgot, some manmade disaster) who got put in a box with a caterpillar. Give me a break!

“You mean values such as redistribution of wealth?”
ROFLMAO!
Sure, that’s been a part of America since Teddy Roosevelt’s time.
“Sucking up to dictators like Chavez and Ortega?”
ROFLMAO!
You may not like their politics but they were elected in fair elections and have human rights records better than ours.
“What about the good old American values of class warfare?”
Because blaming the poor for the econmoic collapse was not calls warfare.
Neither is calling the working class deadbeats, loafers and the many other nasty adjectives the right wing has decided to attach to anyone not making $250K a year.
“Prosecuting the only people that actually pay taxes in this country”
ROFLMAO!
Prosecuting?
Their taxes haven’t even gone up yet.
Right wingers really are bullies, hit them in the nose and they start to snivel like the cowards they are,

So far, not a single lefty out here has taken it upon themselves to explain how a single American life is worth killing 3 Somali teenagers, yet millions of American lives are not worth water boarding a few terrorists!
Come On Lefties…I’m sure Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann must have some talking points for you on this….

Obama is a fool!! He goes on these foreign trips every other week and comes back for a cabinet meeting, trying to make them come up with something to reduce the debt a measley 100 million while he increases spending in the trillions–I have lived a long time and never, never heard of a president who focused so much on the previous administration. Suppose he’s trying to take the spotlight off of his administration. All he knows how to do is try to organize and campaign. He wants to be king of the world!!!

Did we need torture to vanquish our enemies in WWII? Did the OSS as predecessor to the CIA torture people during WWII? Despite the fact that the Japanese brutalized our prisoners of war, and engaged in such abominations as the Bataan Death March, did we in turn torture? When we captured German soldiers and sent them to the states and place them in prison camps, did we torture them?

This is what happens when Obama tries to speak off the cuff, without his trusty teleprompter. You notice from the photographs that he had his teleprompter yesterday when he made remarks to the CIA. Today, he was winging it and it shows. He just reversed course on an extremely sensitive and contentious matter after a week when this whole issue was under increased scrutiny with the whole memos kerfuffle. He sent Gibbsy scrambling in what would, under other circumstances, be a most entertaining way, to try to square the circle and make his statements today fit with his previous statements and the statements of his closest advisors, such as what Rahm had to say just this weekend. This is ridiculous.

The answer to William J. LePetomane’s questions is NO, NO, NO. We did none of those things back then. We will not do them now. Why? Because we are a nation of laws. Our behavior is not dictated by the lowest common denominator!

Dave wrote: ” It’s what every person in the military swears to uphold and protect. It’s what it’s all about, it’s what unites us, it’s what’s so FREAKING IMPORTANT”.
Man, don’t you dare question my patriotism. I don’t want there to be ANY chance of my buddies being tortured because OUR government ignored the Geneva convention. I am a soldier, NOT a PARTY HACK. I get sick to my stomach reading all the crap you people THINK you know, and yes especially the so called “Right Wing” who aren’t any more patriotic then the Left Wing.

“Pershaps you should watch some of the beheading videos that I’m sure can be found on the internet, and then you can come here and explain to us how Al Qaeda is adhering to the Geneva Convetion.”
Al Queda doesn’t operate by American values either.
Shall we jettison those when they become inconvenient?
Posted by: Ryan C | Apr
—————————————
The point being, which is obviously lost on you, is that terrorist suspects were not tortured. Treated harshly, yes, at worse.

Frank wrote: “Does anyone really care ?? I don’t. This prosecuting thing is nothing but another Obama’s smoke screen. Our soldiers don’t get waterboarded, they get electrocuted”
Yep, we get electrocuted by KGB shoddy wiring. That’s something that the Congress needs to look into.,

William J. LePetomane, you asked if we used torture in WWII, suggesting the answer is a clear and simple “No.” But it is not that simple. For openers, I do not personally know, but will ask colleagues who are experts on the history of that era, whether German or Japanese POWs thought to possess important operational information were bounced off specially-constructed, Wrestlemania-style walls after having their necks protectively wrapped to prevent any possibility of injury. I do not know if such prisoners were struck lightly in the face with splayed fingers. Somehow, I suspect that their treatment might have been at least that “brutal.”
Also, German and Japanese POWS were part of state militaries and fought, for the most part, under generally agreed-upon international rules of war. Most of those captured were ordinary footsoldiers who would not have actionable intelligence. Terrorist suspects are a different lot. Because of the amorphous leadership structures and because of the segmentation of information between operational groups, much lower-level operatives in such groups do possess, in some cases, crucial information that could lead to the prevention of an attack.
So while I understand what you are trying to say and while I do not condone real torture, I do not think the post 9/11 enhanced interrogation techniques, since suspended, are comparable to what may or may not have been done in the WWII era. And for the record, by “real torture” I mean treatment that is actually life-threatening or which can lead to permanent injury. What John McCain suffered in Hanoi, which left his body permanently damaged and could have indeed led to his death, is torture. And from the memos and other information that has been released, I do not see that level of torture being practiced by Americans at any time in history, including during the Bush administration and the war on terrorism.

Did we need torture to vanquish our enemies in WWII?
WJP,
We took American Citizens and put them in camps.
President Franklin Roosevelt had signed Executive Order 9066, which allowed the War Department to incarcerate anyone of Japanese ancestry on the West Coast.
The order authorized the Secretary of War to “prescribe military areas . . . from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any persons to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion.”
Ok, so lets go back and prosecute the FDR administration…..

Dave wrote “liberals have pretty much opposed every action taken by our military since its inception.”
Here is a pinprick in your precious bubble, Dave. It was “liberals” who gave us “cash and carry”, the “destroyer deal”, “lend-lease” and ultimately a declaration of war against Japan following Pearl Harbor. “Conservatives” were much too busy just then holding isolationist “America First” rallies and listening to Charles Lindbergh tell them that neither Hitler nor Japan could EVER actually mount a trans-oceanic attack on the U.S.!
Pat Buchanan has even heaped praise on the America Firsters in very recent times.
And the truth be told, even the American Revolution itself was not supported by “conservatives” – but by “liberals” of Colonial America. Likewise the Civil War to preserve the American Union and to limit and ultimately abolish slavery was not supported by “conservatives” so much as by “liberals” (including the first Republican President.)
Like the Russian Communists – who claimed to have invented the light bulb, radio, television, airplanes, hedgehogs and in all likelihood the Internet – “conservatives” also claim ownership of all that is not rightly theirs.

finally some justice might come out of the last 8 years of pseudo-patriotism

Michael: Do you?

If you’re a soldier then you better damn well know what the following is and what it means:
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]
IF YOU DON’T, NOT ONLY WOULD I QUESTION YOUR PATRIOTISM, BUT ALSO YOUR LOYALTY.
I work in the government, so the above is the oath I had to take when I was hired. I believe this is the same for officers in the military.
For enlisted servicemen and women it’s the following:
I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.[1]
But the allegiance and loyalty is always to the same thing, the U.S. Constitution. Note that obeying orders is not the same thing as allegiance, as many people I’m sure will testify.

“The preacher, who barry O listened to for 20 years, also said that America created the AIDS virus to kill blacks and that our chickens have come home to roost.”
ROFLMAO!
Now Rev. Wright has melded with Ward Churchill.
Right wingers are so dumb they can;t even keep their bogeyman straight.

earth_not_flat & Ryan C,
I see your full of talking points. Nothing else.
You cant even explain the “O’s” actions in regards to pirates. Well, I guess I set my sights to high to think you were capable of independent thought.
Better hope those left-wing downloads don’t have you driving the wrong way on a one way street.
Anyway, the answer you seek contains too much common sense for a liberal.

comparing the issue with an american being kidnapped by a pirate to torturing illegally is one of the most ridiculous arguments and comparisons i’ve heard well, at least today, coming from a bush/cheney apologist… clearly the pirates kidnapped an american illegally… if they killed him, obama would have been blamed by you for not doing enough, now that everyone is glad all our guys are home safe, you still blame obama for killing those absolutely responsible?? … as if we knew they were 16 years old too… what a lame comparison… but keep on apologizing for bush/cheney, luckily the right wing nuts have been put in their place of irrelivancy in a changing world that they can’t imagine

Ryan C
I was quoting rev racist accurately.
However, I am glad you brought up ward churchill. Churchill is another great example of a liberal traitor who should be tarred, feather and shipped to the mothership known as cuba.

boy, the tiny insiginificant minority of america that voted for bush/cheney twice and STILL support them are really really mad, and we’re supposed to care?

Ryan C –”To all the right wingers here,
If in the future, one of our men or women is uniform is tortured by our enemies, don’t you DARE complain.
You have made it quite clear that you could care less about torture, in fact many of you seem proud of it.
____________
Gee, you make it sound like our troops getting tortured would be something new..
Why don’t you name one single conflict in modern history in which our troops DID NOT get tortured? We murdered and tortured our own troops in the civil war, we were gassed in Germany in WW 1, starved in Nazi camps in WW 2, we were beaten, shocked and had our finger nails ripped out in Nam, we were beheaded in the gulf, and you are AFRAID that a little waterboarding might cause the bad guys to ABUSE us in the future?? That so called “torture” (which was no such thing) actually led to the disruption of two other terrorist plots against the US and to the identification and capture of several significant members of Al Quaida..
Everyone talks about the “unlimited detention” of individuals in Guantanamo, yet where was the outrage when Truman held thousands of Japanese Americans in camps IN THE US for the duration of the war simply because they were of Japanese decent… we actaully had Japanese American soldiers fighting in the war for the US while members of their family were held in camps for Japanese citizens…
The reality in this case is that there was NO torture and just because some anti war kooks call it that does not make it a fact.
This whole “torture” mantra along with “trickle down”, “tax cuts for the rich”, “fascist bigots”, and a dozen other liberal pieces of nonsense are simpply enabliers for the left to use to vilianize those who disagree with them just as any one who mentions socialism or questions Obama’s background or associates is a racist and anyone who questions his vision of the country is unpatriotic…
Sad.. truly sad…

This is just the tip of the Ice Burg for the Bush and Cheney administration. I’m sure that there’s a lot more to follow. That will make this seem like nothing. Those CEO Criminals who Hijacked our Country will pay for ruining our Economy and image around the World! EXXON MOBILE just Surpassed Walmart as the SP500 Leader! Bush and Cheney High five Each Other! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!! Drill Baby Drill!!!!!

Torturing of terrorists is not going to stop. It just won’t be done at Gitmo and the CIA will be there to watch while another friendly country does our dirty work. I believe the term is “plausible deniability”

“The reality in this case is that there was NO torture and just because some anti war kooks call it that does not make it a fact.”
Bent Sørensen, Senior Medical Consultant to the International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims and former member of the United Nations Committee Against Torture has said
UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, stated on the subject “I would have no problems with describing this practice as falling under the prohibition of torture”
Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, concurred by stating, in a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee, that he believes waterboarding violates Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.

Obama cannot pick one or two people to use as scape goats unless he goes after ALL including Bush and Cheney.

“No, the pesky fact is that since the detainees are NOT subject to the Geneva Conventions, which cover combatants fighting in uniform for states, treatment of them does not fall under the conventions and therefore we did NOT violate them.”
The Geneva Convention covers many types of combatants including irregulars.
The US had to create a definition of unlawful combatants to create a reason for not applying the Geneva Convention.
See we had to claim the rules did not apply to avoid breaking the rules.
And that is a pile of bs.

Pandering. This is all pandering. BO is a pretender. Besides, there hasn’t been a repeat of 9/11. So all you self-righteous people can go take a flying leap. I could care less if a sub-human piece of trash was waterboarded or not. After the info was extracted from these pieces of trash, they should have stuck a needle in their arm just like they do to other murderers. Would be a savings in tax money. Instead, I get to pay for these guys to live in luxury down in Guantanamo Bay.

Why does Bo talk bad about the U.S in front of dignitaries HE SHOULD NOT, I REPEAT NEVER TALK DOWN ABOUT THE U.S.A.! When he does this he is takeing sides with the other guy’s (Whom ever he’s with at the time) He’s trying to ruin us, and everyone is watching. He will sell us out, if he hasn’t already.

How about the whole “I didnt know about the AIG bonuses” thing and “oh its ok they were under contract so the law protects them” can we prosecute Obama, Bernanker and Geithner when Obama’s term is up?

Send Cheney to jail!

Mike_C
Very well said.

This dude better forget about the past administration and get on with the work of fixing the country’s economy like he said he was going to do. His prosecutions of the previous administration won’t get him anywhere,as they were within the law, except he’ll spend more money that we don’t need to spend at this time. He better get on the stick. He’s not a very good leader so far!

Ryan C -”boy, the tiny insiginificant minority of america that voted for bush/cheney twice and STILL support them are really really mad, and we’re supposed to care?”—
_____________________________
That “tiny insignificant minority” was actually a majority of American voters (8%) higher than the minority who voted for Kerry…
And don’t be so sure that as this administration moves farther left, spends more, places the government in control of more of our daily lives, increases the welfare state, weakens us militarily, and befriends leaders who wish us harm, the majority of voters enjoyed by Bush in 2008 may be even greater for the republican candidate in 2012..
When you start talking minorites and majorites, remember that to varying degrees, a MAJORITY of Americans still oppose bigger government, more taxes, abortion, gun control, gay marriage, increased welfare, uncontrolled unionization, weakened defenses and a president that begins every speech with an apology that America exists and a disclaimer that WE are the cause of the world’s problems…

mike_c – sorry about your cigarette tax, but personally i think they should add another $1 or 2 onto the price of a pack to help pay for health care or the environment… if you don’t like being taxed to buy something that kills and causes nothing but harm to everyeone (non-smokers alike) then quit… is this your gripe? save money on your federal taxes and pay more for your toxic cigs? get a real issue dude!

arkievet says: “a president that begins every speech with an apology that America exists and a disclaimer that WE are the cause of the world’s problems… ”
please stop lying, you are fitting into the mold of the right wing extemists who have to lie about everything to make your point… stick with the facts bro!

I think it’s smart of him to leave this on the table. If his huge economic plans doesn’t turn results quickly, he can always divert some attention to this subject to buy him some time. We all seem to foget that congress knew about these methods and had the power to do something about it, they just didn’t have the spine. Let’s not stop at the executive branch if we want to start investigating.

Thanks to the miracle of TV crime shows, most Americans know that CIA has a license to kill. When I worked for the Federal Government, “I remember meeting a very paranoid Woman who worked for the CIA.” She told me, “If the CIA wants to kill you, they would put something odorless and colorless in your drink or food. Hours later you will die of a heart attack. No one will ever know the heart attack was drug induced.” Isn’t it fair to say, “MURDER is a more serious than TORTURE?” IT DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE TO PROSECUTE FOR TORTURE, WITHOUT PROSECUTING FOR MURDER AND EVERYTHING ELSE. If we do prosecute for everything else, to be fair, “We will have to go all the way back to J. Egar Hoover.” If one Presidential Administration’s definition of TORTURE is different from another Administration’s definition, isn’t it fair to say, “No one should be held accountable for breaking a law that didn’t exist during the prior Administration?” Could the TORTURE accusations be based on revenge? Before anyone is prosecuted, the reasons for the accusations must be exposed. When BUSH was in office, no one could control his decisions. To make an attempt to control an out of control person will make you look foolish. If the TORTURE accusations are based on revenge, I really feel the case should not go to trail.”

Ryan C –”The Geneva Convention covers many types of combatants including irregulars. — Actually it does not.. it covers members and non members but makes exceptions for those who operate criminally outside the rules..
“The US had to create a definition of unlawful combatants to create a reason for not applying the Geneva Convention.”–that argument misght hold water, except nothing that the US did actaully violated the application of teh Geneva convention. All applied techniques were vetted against the definition of torture and while they could be considered “enhanced” could not be considered torturous. That was the determination ultimately made by George Tenant (a Clinton Appointee)who was responsible for making that call.

dave – “torture as water dropped down a person’s nose.”
what are you talking about? certainly not waterboarding, which even john mccain said was torture… are you still apologizing for your great president bush to be held unaccountable for breaking the law?… if you like that kind of government, perhaps iran would better suit you?

“That was the determination ultimately made by George Tenant (a Clinton Appointee)who was responsible for making that call.”
No, that determination was made by Bush’s legal team.
“except nothing that the US did actaully violated the application of teh Geneva convention. All applied techniques were vetted against the definition of torture”
Try reading the actual Geneva Conventions.
Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, concurred by stating, in a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee, that he believes waterboarding violates Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.

earth_not_flat , there you are again !
If is like you said, then why we have not prosecuted Mr Rangel on tax evasion, Barney Frank for letting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac go down the drains and so many others on the your side? >Why we are not holding accountable Geitner for the billions of tax dollars wasted and without proper oversight on this monstrous bailout why , tell me why ?? I believe this is more important than caring about less than a dozen criminals linked to the 911 attack, Where the hell where you when the towers fell ? Did you see the hundreds jumping to their death that day? Where were you ? Did you see anyone of your fellow americans dying in the batlefield and then come home and be told that you were serving on an “illegal” war ? have you, coward ??

earth not flat -”i still can’t believe you people are afraid of an investigation into bush/cheney for breaking the law!!! pseudo-patriots want presidents and vice presidents who are criminals and liars??”– Because YOU assume they broke the law by YOUR standards does not make it so.. I happen to think anyone who has an abortion simply as a matter of contraception is guilty of a crime against another human being.. but that does not give me the right to call for their prosecution.. In this case, prosecution for such a debatable crime would serve no purpose other than to weaken us in the eyes of many who would wish to do us harm… What good could come of this… If by some chance they are found guilty, then our reputation is sullied, if they are found innocent, we have presented the front of an unsure power, regardless of teh verdict, do you really think it will change anyone’s mind about whether the actions themselves were proper or not??
Doubtful..

If they want an investigation, bring it on—-but they need to go all the way back to the Clinton ADmistration—that’s where this began!!!

Prove that they were going to kill the captain, they have over 200 hostages that they are not killing right now they just wanted food and money, they weren’t shooting anyone. Innocent until proven guilty is our laws and if our laws apply in Guantanamo then they apply in international waters and that is why the only surviving pirate is here now,, our laws apply. What the CIA did is their job and so did Bush according to the democratically elected Congress, who at the time was controlled by Democrats. If you are going to let terrorists push for prosecution then you must let pirates push for prosecution.

earth not flat
McCain, although an honorable man, is a liberal politician with a lot of bad ideas and beliefs. I was a Romney/Palin person who was very disappointed with McCain’s nomination… I couldn’t care less if McCain thinks dropping water down terrorists’ noses is torture.
Bottom line-we use waterboarding as a training method on our own troops and it has become a VITAL tool in extracting info from the scumbags who want to kill us. It does no physical damage to the body, and removing it as a tool from those we ask to protect us, was a great mistake.

Not surprising since the guy has no clue what he’s doing!!! the only thing this poor excuse for a loser has changed so far is his mind.

If bush and cheney ever have plans to travel abroad, they had better wear disguises. If they they were ever discovered, there would be a lot more than shoes flying at them. The two biggest embarrassments to ever be called Americans….

Obama changes his mind every other day, and then does nothing!!

Answer the question liberals….
Why does BO have the right to authorize the shooting/murder of 3 teenagers (which I completely agree with) who took 1 American hostage, but Bush’s administration didn’t have the right to waterboard someone who was potentially going to murder THOUSANDS with their bombing plots aimed at the Brooklyn Bridge, Empire State Building, ect?????
BO better be careful or he might find himself being prosecuted in a couple of years.

Trent wrote at4:04pm regarding George’s comment “This poster is a perfect example of the Right Wing NeoCon that put party before country. This is the reason the NeoCons will fail and why moderates have left the party.” It is not about being neocon, not about party, I am not a neocon, but I am for small to little government. If a future president can go after past presidents, what will happen is that all future presidents will Pardon everyone. This is only a political position, not reality. Waterboarding is not torture (I don’t vote for Mccain)Liberal don’t understand what your asking for; are you ready to have to really defend your positions? I don’t think so!

romney/palin? – i’m lost with that ticket… one a flip flopper if there ever was one, and the other (palin) being the WORST possible person that has ever run for office of presidency… me thinks the born agains are the only ones who support her

Jes – don’t you get it? an ‘eye for an eye’ is not a very good policy for us to have now is it?

leftyintexas If they they were ever discovered, there would be a lot more than shoes flying at them…….There has already been an attempt on obama’s life in Turkey but the media down played it. I guess shoe throwing is more dangerous than a man armed with a knife?

Ryan C
Romney is a fiscal conservative who would have destroyed the community organizer in a debate based on our economy.
I am anti late to mid-term abortion and am not one way or the other on gay marriage.
However those things are secondary to my pocket book and my country’s security, which is why I am very uspet with the anti-American, socialist from chicago.
As for Palin, she is awesome (no tony rezko’s in her closet) and she will be great for my pocket book and my nation’s security.
So, I repeat, I am a Romney/Palin guy.

indithinker–”they impeached Pres Clinton for lying about an affair”, You are a real thinker, they never impeached Clinton, rofl, wow, duh.
leftyintexas–”If bush and cheney ever have plans to travel abroad, they had better wear disguises.”
They are and have already been traveling to other countries giving seminars and speaches, try reading the news and keeping up to date. Wow real smart people making real smart statements, if you tried paying attention you might have a clue as to what is really going on in the world.

This is a political joke and will haunt those who pursue it. I cannot conceive of anyone being punished for doing “everything possible” to protect this country in the wake of the most devastating attack ever on our country. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. The last administration was not the first to use such tactics, so unless past administrations were prosecuted by the Justice Department (ie, FDR during WWII, LBJ/Nixon during Vietnam, etc). Every administration has skeletons in the closet that opponents would look at as being “criminal” or “immoral.” If this administration prosecutes one, but not the others, then they will be condemned once Republicans retake control. Revenge is cruel, so Democrats need to tread lightly. What they consider torture, most nations do not, like sleep deprivation.
I understand wanting to act morally and setting a good example, but to tell the enemy that we absolutely won’t make them “uncomfortable” and provide them with a warm place to sleep, three meals a day, etc, will not deter those who live in war-torn, impoverished countries to NOT want to be captured. If your living conditions are worse than a U.S. holding facility, would you fear being taken into custody? Furthermore, I know it is Politically Correct to say that “enhanced interrogations” don’t work, but I know otherwise and it is sad that this administration is hiding the truth. “War is Hell,” and this administration doesn’t have the guts to do what it takes to win. President Obama’s plan is doomed before it even get’s started. The fall out won’t be immediate, but it will appear and take a longtime to reverse…as American casualties mount. 2012 will be a tough sell for this President, because only his most die-hard supporters will back him after the next big attack. He is betting everything that there will be no major attacks on U.S. Soil by totally reversing the policies that (at least perceptually), have kept us from such an attack after 9/ll. The public rallied behind President Bush because we were caught off guard…any attacks now will be considered to be a direct failure of this administration and we should have been better prepared. Too bad…because the President seems to be a nice guy…but that isn’t enough when bad policies are blamed for the deaths of many Americans, or failure in foreign policy. He is setting himself up for failure and he will take the “Liberal” brand with him, too.

RST Said, “It was because of torture people flocked to fight in Iraq and killed our soldiers. Those who were involved in these brutal actions must be prosecuted immediately.”
Sorry, but that isn’t why they flocked to kill our Soldiers in Iraq. Only a small percentage actually use that as an excuse. Most joined because they see the U.S./Coalition as an occupying force and/or entered Iraq to fight their local enemy. Sunni’s came to fight Shiite’s and visa versa. Al-Qaeda and Sadr’s militia are fighting a democratic government that interfere’s with their desire to rule the country.
The Liberal Press has been hard at work pushing their agenda, but it is a false interpretation that will be exposed as time goes by. Historians will correct the error, but whether intelligence overrides political influence will take longer to take root. Generations to come will understand this and your position will be marginalized.

earthn not flat–”george – real power comes from people, like the 70+% that support obama… unlike the 20% or so who still support bush/cheney.. in case you havent noticed, most of those who voted for bush/cheney regret it”– First, Bush and Cheney are no longer in power. Second, you need to go someplace besides the daily kos to check your polls, Obama’s highest rating ( right after the election was about 63%.. it has since dropped to around 50% (depending on which poll) meanwhile, his negative rating has doubled. Bush and Cheney’s worst rating (nationally) was 26% while teh democratically controlled congress held an 11% rating in the same poll. And if these type of message boards are any indication, very few people post that they regret voting for Bush, while I have seen a growing number who are questioning ( and regretting)their support of Obama.

Gary – you are right ONLY if you think torture should become legal… otherwise, defending lawbreakers is not very becoming in a civilized society.

pamp205–”Bush and his ilk are haters of our Constitution and the laws of this country. I say let them fry!
And for the joker who made the comment about the three teenage pirates being killed…Obama went through all the legal channels before acting. Bush and his disgusting crew did not.”—Okay, time to defend your statement — What “channels” did Obama go through? It was not on American soil, but he did not go through the UN, he did not go through Congress, he did not go through the legal system, He simply called on the American military to act..i ask you again, what “proper channels” did he go through? On the other hand Bush did get a permission to go to Iraq by congressional vote under the war powers act before we went. That IS the proper channel for LEGALLY engaging in a conflict. You say Bush hates our constitution, but he did nothing that directly violated the constitution, while Obama has already broken it on at least 2 occassions – the government takeover of AIG and GM are constitutionally prohibited and the assessment of the 90% tax on AIG bonus recipients passed by congress and supported by Obama is in direct violation of Article 1 of the Constitution…

arkie – if bush went from a huge approval rating after 9/11 to a 20+ approval rating, i’d say people have regret… you are in denial, like the rest of the repubican base (what’s left of you)

This is so good! Clinton lied but nobody died and the Republicans still tried to impeach him. The Bush Administration should be prosecuted for their crimes against humanity. No excuses and it’s just shameful that people are trying to defend them. And I bet they say that they are Christians.

We live in a Democracy, not a kingdom where some men are above the law. Those saying “oh just let sleeping dogs lie” are putting PARTY before COUNTRY. We sent 5,000 Americans to their death in Iraq because we wanted to spread that Democracy. Not holding our leaders accountable makes us a kingdom. Too many of our best and brightest have died to protect our rights and freedoms. We owe it to them to be a nation of law and order.

boxcar – didn’t say it was more important, quite the opposite, but i DO think it was incredibly poignant

How about they enact a legislation that wont allow present and future Presidents to sign into law documents that would allow them to be immune from criminal prosecution as well. That would also make sense wouldnt it?

Get ‘em President Obama! These criminals lied, stole, cheated, killed and tortured for 8 years and they need to pay. Sometimes I wonder if the Bush Administration ignored the warnings so that 9/11 could happen. This gave them an opportunity to invade Iraq, obtain personal wealth and torture people. God does not like ugly and this was an ugly administration.

Does anyone remember the beheading by the Al-Qieda? I guess that you belive that was in accordance with the geneva convention.At one time the press was dedicated to exposing the truth,now it is nothing more than Bo’s personal propaganda mill.This country is headed for a civil war.

no1uno Your post name speaks volumns anout how a liberal thinks.

Lifelong Republican wrote “We live in a Democracy, not a kingdom where some men are above the law…Not holding our leaders accountable makes us a kingdom…We owe it to them to be a nation of law and order.” YOU ARE MISTAKEN, WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC. DEMOCRACY IS BAD (51% GOVERN THE REMAINING 49%).

Why doesn’t BO release FDR’s memos that prevented the service men in Hawaii from knowing that they were going to be attacked by the Japanese. The release of the Bush Admin. letters is only a ploy to make Democrats look like heros. Why doesn’t BO tell the truth about not giving the order to fire on the pirates. It was the naval captain that refused to wait any longer but BO took credit. He is a Hollow Man!

“Nationwide tea parties with massive anti-tax and anti-spending demonstrations”
Astroturf borught toyou by FoxNews and financed by the right wing establishment.
Even with relentless promotion and the supposedly seething anger, the largest crowds that could be mustered were about 5000 who showed up to see Glen Beck or Hannity.
Even better Neil Cavuto was caught making up attendance figures.

This is a wake up call for all of us about who is in charge NOW. Guys the bank didnt need bailout money. The problem is we need the bank. If there was a way to buy a home without a bank loan most people would go that route. The bank charges HUGE interest percentages on loans, checking accounts, even $3 ATM fees. This is why they posted they made billions. The question is why didnt the U.S. government check if they really needed the bailout money (Bush and Obama’s administration)? Why did we take their word for it. Where was the government investigation? What the heck are they investigating now? You can bet your buttons it wont be Bernanke, Getihner, Barney Frank or Obama being investigated! They want to make a smokescreen by ‘investigating’ Bush and Cheney for trying to find out who blew up the World Trade Center!!! Why not investigate the current administration now also or do they get cart-blanche?

rfchr81 – i’m a self employed business owner… and if i was making more than a quarter million dollars a year profit, i wouldn’t mind paying a little more taxes… seeing that obama only wants to raise them up to where they were under clinton… obama passed the biggest tax CUT for middle class citizens… so please, stop with the trickle down economics already, it’s called GREED now

george – You said “WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC. DEMOCRACY IS BAD (51% GOVERN THE REMAINING 49%).” Almost every recent presidental election has been that close. So if it is bad, what are you proposing we do?

omgnoway – in case you forgot (typical of republicans) we already know who was responsible for 911, but that man is still on the loose and was even called ‘irrelevant’ by george bush… this is the kind of lunacy that bush/cheney worshippers would have us put up with… if you want justice for 911, then go after bin laden (guarantee you, obama will find him and bring him to justice, and you repubs will still find fault with that crying ‘oh look at obama he just likes the attention’ or some other jealous drivel)… so instead of going after those guilty of 911, we invade iraq?? how stupid that was… and we’re supposed to put up with more of that crap… sorry, but OMGNOWAY!

Obama is weakening our country and making us seem apologetic for protecting our citizens. I have no problem with torturing terrorist animals. Our days as a great super power our limited as long as Obama is
President. Wake up Obama supporters.
He disrespected our nation and the very citizens he is to serve. We do not submit to lunatics like Hugo Chavez.

Laurie – You said Obama “doesn’t realize the danger he is putting each and every American in.” What has he done that has put us in danger?

did i miss something? seems to me jane harmon committed treason…where is the investigation mr obama? a democrat congress women …hmmm ..and we are concerned about how we treat terrorists.

nvbroome – “I have no problem with torturing terrorist animals.” I am confused, I did not know that they had been convicted my anyone, civil or military. When did this happen?

I have never gotten into politics before, but this is crazy. The U.S. as we know it will be no more. The U.S. is slowly going down hill. More and more people want to turn the other cheek and let things like this happen. We built this nation on sacrifices. Going back and charging CIA members or Special Forces for the things they do to keep us a free nation is detramental. It will show us as being a weak nation. There are thousands of people who are here for a better way of life and are doing well. Closing the borders would stop all of this. If you are not a US citizen get out. Every country in the world demands that you abide by the laws they have. We as a Nation is always worried about offending someone from another country. This is our country and the people need to defend it as such. If we don’t defend it who will. They have several predictions that the end of the world; we will have one world leader. Is this the beginning?? I do believe in change, but giving away my rights as a free nation is sure not one of them. These other countries will do everything necessary to defend and protect their nation. Why is it so bad for us to do the same. You ask the POW’s what they had to endure. The Geneva convention is For us. In a war situation, other countries will torture, and kill, to get any information they need. It could be your family member tortured or killed. Do you think your minds would change then on how we defend our nation?

Donnie – “Going back and charging CIA members or Special Forces for the things they do to keep us a free nation is detramental.” I don’t think that is who Obama is after. I think he is after the people who said it was legal. I absolutely agree that it would be totally wrong to charge CIA and Special Forces for following orders.

those of you bush/cheney apologist, you just can’t have it both ways… either you are defending torture as something that should be legal (most of you here are doing) OR you are saying what was done was NOT torture (what bush/cheney people are saying to cover their buttts)… the funny thing is, the reason you are saying it’s OK to torture is because you are basically ADMITTING what was done would fall under the definition of torture… how ironic that bush & cheney will NEVER admit what was done was torture, and they will ALWAYS say that torture is rightfully ILLEGAL… so basically, you are in a big disagreement with those you defend. Why is this? because the overwhelming majority of people will never allow torture to be legal because it is wrong and doesnt work… but keep on saying stupid things like “well they did it so we can” or saying its ok to torture because once this goes to trial and cheney is defining what the word “is” is when it comes to torture, you will be backpedaling and saying ‘it really isn’t torture’… and to that i say, let the judge decide!!

Earth_not_flat said “and to that i say, let the judge decide!!” To this I say no way. Don’t trust nor believe in our judicial system. Which judges are you going to let decide, 9th circuit, 11th, 5th…. you see you get different opinions. Face it, we are a divided country. Just because a court rules, a law is made, does not mean it is true or just. Live free and watch Braveheart.

Hallelujah, they do listen at 1600 Pennsylvanian Ave!
We ARE still a nation of laws!
It WILL be a painful process, but discovery often is.
Shine the light brightly in every corner, ferret out ALL that resides in the darkness.
Let the truth hold the self evident and righteous beliefs we have founded this country on, carry the light of day, where ever this needs to go.
We must NEVER allow this type of self effacing self diminishing, self destructive, “justification” happen again.
YES, we ARE all about defending our great nation. AND we can do so with the power of light and justice guiding our way!

What total bull cr@p. How about rounding up all of the 75-90 year old OSS agents that helped win World War II and all of the CIA operatives who may have had to resort to some unsavory actions to win the Cold War? Get real people. The non-injurious and non-fatal water boarding that occurred warded off more harm to our nation than you will ever know. Don’t think for even a second than it wouldn’t be done by the Obama Administration or any future administration if another 9/11 attack or an imminent and catastrophic nuclear strike were discovered. So, grow up and get real.

earth_not_flat: First, your definition of torture must be far different than mine, so your comment is questionable on that basis. Second, would it be more civilized to lose our way of life than do what is necessary to achieve victory? If we could achieve victory by sweet talking the enemy into giving up, I am all for it. Reality tells me that if we put your “civilized” approach above success, you have defeated your own cause. I doubt many Americans will accept heavy civilian casualties here in the U.S., just to say we were the nice guys. I don’t agree we should make torture legal, but many previous administrations allowed it during every major campaign (including “good wars” like World War II and “bad wars” like Vietnam, but FDR, LBJ and Nixon, were never prosecuted for it…why not? I say, be civil when you can, but do what is necessary to win, or at least give the enemy the perception that the “possibility” exists that we could use tough interrogation methods. Taking that off the table is the biggest mistake and we will pay for it.

Looks like this administration is trying to take the high road by turning loose this Bush-era tactics but they are being dragged back in the muck by the faithful.
It reminds me of Michael Corleone in the Godfather III: “Just when I thought I was out… they pull me back in.”
Of course, Obama is not stupid – forget dragging this country through a legal confessional about the Bush administration the fact is that Obama’s guys need to be wide open about what they could be forced to do is this new foreign policy does not produce the results they expect. What if some major attack happens and they are forced to squeeze some information out of some terrorist they capture? What if they made one of their own detainees stay up past their bedtime and someone called 911? There is simply not enough lipstick for that pig. This President is politically savvy in a lot of ways – he needs to leave his options open just in case the proverbial ca-ca his the even more proverbial fan.

Now that the Bush-Cheney Gang is out of power, they can no longer use “War on Terror”, “National Security” or even “Global Economy” to cover-up their corruption. Nobody is above the law… Prosecute the Criminals!

If any one needs investigated, iTs obama.I have no faith or trust in this lieing piece of garbage.No one could trust him. Any person that buries his past, is definantly a lier,a cheat,and a very smart con-artist.In my opinion, I see no future for our country untill this man is out of office and put behind us.