Sources: Obama Plays Peacemaker in French-Chinese Smackdown Over Tax Havens

We finally have a president who is intelligent with common sense. I’m very proud of him and his wife.
By the way the stock market is really going up and Pres. Obama is geting very favorable reviews.

The stronger this economy gets under Obama, the angrier the republican clowns get.
THIS IS GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To Barb: Right, and next he’ll be leading them in a chorus of “kum bay ya”. Obama is NOT what’s driving the markets up, it’s the fiscal restraint the OTHER members of the G20 are insisting upon. He’s basically being ignored. Obama’s a referee for the real leaders…good for him. Enjoy your koolaid.

Yes Will…sometime looking at an issue from another perspective will change how you act and leads to a resolution. For example, Mr. Cantor sees a deficit where Mr. Obama and others see an investment.

I think that the republicans and conservatives can find nothing good to say about 20 global leaders being able to work together and agree on how to approach the current economic crisis. I think it’s great that our President is in there on a human level, keeping it real. THIS is progress. If the r’s and c’s can’t see that, too bad for them. Keep dishing out your negativity. It will be your demise.

The picture posted with this post
shows what an inept clueless clown
we have as a president. Not presidential
at all. The same could be said that
the others in the same pose,are not
representing their countries well
either. I wonder what will really come
out of this meeting other than the
idea that someone is trying to do
something that no one knows how to
handle.

To MayBee: Macao is correct in pin yin.
You sound like a real naysayer. I’m thrilled that we finally have a President about whom I feel proud. FINALLY!!

Diplomacy is the stronger weapon than the silver bullet and it costs nothing! Our President knows this and I am extremely proud of him.

Great piece of diplomacy on the part of our President.
Sarkozy does rather have a reputation for being somewhat of a hot tempered blowhard.
The last time I saw one of our Presidents be so well received in Europe was one of John Kennedy’s trips.

Karen: Macao is correct in pin yin.
You sound like a real naysayer. I’m thrilled that we finally have a President about whom I feel proud. FINALLY!
===
I’ll take your word for it. My passport stamp says Macau.
I’m glad you can be proud of the President, whatever that gets you.
I’d rather have a sound fiscal policy.

regarding the “thumbs up” photo, there is an article online (Newsweek) that Obama hasn’t yet named a chief of Protocol and that he and his staff were unaware the state department had an office of protocol. hence his ignorance or naivety of the inappropriate gifts and hand gestures.

too bad, it would have been great to see sarkozy and jintao come to fisticuffs.

Republicans HATE when that dow goes up. And to top it all off, all of their gloom and doom predictions about how Obama would be received in London were TOTALLY WRONG.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great job Obama. Unity! Now that’s what I’m talking about. Let’s all come together in peace and stop all these wars! Those who talk bad about our president when he is doing good… SHAME ON YOU!

joetheCEO,
if you’re really a ceo or businessman of any kind, you’d understand that the reason the stock market is going up is simply because of the favorable debt ratios blue chips are now experiencing. but the key is that the debt ratio is more favorable because the american people have assumed most of those debts in the form of the bailouts. so, yes, the companies are healthier, but the economy is not because the burden was simply shifted from one party to another. it’s voodoo economics my friend. an accounting shell game.

Wis134 You seem to know it all so what are your great ideas?

maniteu – seems Obama has more class than you… Look what he has accomplished already…don’t think you can do better. You should speak proud of your president when he is doing great. You ain’t from round here! Go Obama!

Tanya, you from Chicago too? Like I said they are laughing at him behind closed doors, he will do nothing for America, he doesn’t know how to deal with people if they don’t think he’s the Messiah. You will see what becomes of this summit

I thought being warmly recieved by other national leaders was a good thing..not a bad thing? And when did trying to get your views across without osterisizing the person or persons your speaking to, start becoming something that is looked down apon? We’ve experienced what happens when when we have someone who leads us, by their ability to not listen to others, being a leader who has the “It’s my or the highway” attitude. It not only got us angry at our gov’t but with eachother as well. Now we have a person who is at the very least TRYING to open the lines of communication and going to the G20 summit, not to lecture, but to throw ideas back and forth to try to find a solution to a global problem. It’s nice to see a leader such as ours at least be humble and not stand on his soapbox, screaming at other leaders to do what he wants or else.

Well said Michelle. Wonderful!

May bee: It doesn’t get me anywhere. But this is the first time in my 48 year lifetime that I’ve felt we have a highly intelligent, modern, capable, ethical and wise person in the office of the Presidency. And what a relief – I’m so tired of being embarrassed and saddened by our leadership.
Sound fiscal policy? This is complicated – it’s easy to make such a pithy statement. Do you have the answers? Do you genuinely think that Obama is not looking to turn this ship around? There are a lot of years of excess consumption and unsustainable practices to correct. You try detoxing a nation.
As for Macau and Macao – look them up – they are both correct. It’s just a system of alphabetizing the Chinese. But it sounds like you like to make things black or white…

Tanya, what has Obama accomplished? Oh, he reinstated abortion spending to other countries, pushed through an historic spending bill, and soon an historic budget.

You hate conservatives, just wait, we will pull our money out of things, and watch you fail, big time. We working out it, we’re not not just organizied yet. We did it to mortgages, we did to the automobile industry, we are working on food stables next. Your going to pay soon.

Tanya, he must be the ONLY President you have paid attention to……..too bad, you picked the worst to try and support……you just don’t get it do you?

Yah! Diplomacy,,, feels great…
Dare I say it,,, Can you imagine John and Cindy McCain being so well received???
Ah,,, NO!
I am very proud of this President, I think his first two months in office have been more productive than Bush’s 8 yrs.
And hey,,, how about that Republican Budget,,,, lol,
No great new ideas, nothing new to offer, just a continuation of the last 8 yrs… same stuff, different day…
GOP, if we wanted more of the same we would have voted for those ideas…

I come from generations of republicans… leaders in the party. And I am proud to say I don;t need to belong to a club – not a republican or a democrat. I vote for the best person…. and in this case we scored big time with Barack Obama. As a person who travels internationally all the time, I am not myopic, have my eye on the bigger picture, and I can tell you we are so so lucky. Things may be painful for a while but it always hurts before it feels better. As long as we work together and support our president, things will be fine….

maniteu – You still hurting from the election.. I get it! Get over it already!

Obama is the answer to my prayers too. He is Bush II. HE is sending more troops to Afganistan, He is increasing government spending like bush. He is deregulating markets so us rich people know before hand where the money is going to be made. He is increasing survelence monitoring of the internet, and airport security. He is BUSH too.

AND WHEN ALL THIS FAILS? WHEN THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEGGED BORROWED AND THIEVED THEIR WAY INTO THESE TRILLIONS AND IT TURNS OUT NOT TO HAVE BEEN THE ANSWER, WHAT THEN? LET ME TELL YOU…..WE GO FROM SIMPLE REGULATION TO EXTREME….WE WILL SEE PRICE CONTROLS!!! FORCIBLE AND UNAVOIDABLE!!! THE SAD THING IS THEY COULD HAVE DONE THIS IN THE VERY BEGINNING THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THESE EXCEEDINGLY DANGEROUS MOVES WHICH WILL LEAVE OUR NATION AND OUR WORLD IN DEEP TROUBLE.

I would like to know how many people that voted for Obama voted in past elections. Do they really know the issues? I highly doubt it! He just ran a fancy marketing campaign with a couple of key phrases and that was about it. I am willing to bet over half the people that voted for this empty suite have no idea what is going on!

“What’s the deal with the “thumbs up” in the group photo? Can he be that naive?
“In Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq and Thailand the ‘thumbs up’ sign is traditionally an obscene gesture, equivalent to the use of the middle finger in the Western world.”
Yeah so? Why do we have to always keep them in mind? The REST of the world sees the thumbs up as a GOOD sign. Screw them, I say if they cannot understand Western culture. I’m sick of always having to kowtow to their sensitivities!

Walter:The WTO has the power to impose THREE HUNDRED PERCENT tariffs as penalties if you do anything with your trade policy to promote your own economy!
We signed up to this and now there is no way out! On the bright side, now you have something real to complain about.”
All I have to complain is that your fantasy is not true. It would be great if the WTO could impose 300% tariffs on any nation in the world. War would stop overnight and battles would be fought in moderation sessions. That’d be great.
I hardly fear someone coming to take my freedom with a tariff, and neither should any free nation.

Tanya, your bias makes your opinions useless.

dd22 – I do. Obama is doing a great job. Go OBAMA

Jack J. “McCain would have been as big a failure as Buckaroo Bush because neither can control their childish attitudes.”
No need for hyperbole. I certainly agree John ‘economics aren’t my strong suit’ McCain would have been a very poor choice for getting through this crisis, but there is just about zero chance he’d have been as bad as GW Bush.

jhw53: Do you understand that this job crunch we are in now took a long, long time to come down. In business, you have to inject capital sometimes to make the business grow. If you pull out the plug on spending, and just sit there scared and fearful, the company (in this case the country) will surely do down the drain. Fear is pervasive in this country – it is pitiful. We have to be strong, get up and keep moving, get money moving… And the press has got to stop scaring everyone…

Too bad Obama’s little pep talk about working together doesn’t work with Congress.
As Obama often reminds everyone–”he won” and he’s keeping score on those who disagree with him.
Obama may be a bully at the White House but our enemies know what a weakling he is–Iran,Russia, China, North Korea don’t seem the slightest bit intimidated.
Charm and smooth talk only goes so far.

tyler:”As Obama often reminds everyone–”he won” ”
I have heard him quoted as saying that once in the course of a long meeting with Congressional leaders. The comment was mostly in jest and greeted by laughs.
Can you cite where he has said it a few other places (“often”) or are you wildly exaggerating?

To all who are having a heart attack over the thumbs picture, get a life, GOOD GRIEF! Are you out of your mind, or is there no end to this buffoonery? Compare this picture to that of our “president” who went about squeezing– AHEM, correct that–choking Angela Merkel at a summit, chewing food as if he were the caveman himself, and spewing obscenities to Tony the poodle that were picked up by an open microphone. And these jealous critics were proud to call that man president.
We all know how presidential President Obama has been on his first trip to Europe. They can’t get enough of our president over there. Those who are getting green with envy over his success, go ahead! Make my day! DIE!!!!!!

I think I just read a post by someone who said Obama is the worst PResident yet….really? He’s been in office for what…around 70 something days…and he is worse then the 43 Pres.’s before him? Maybe I was under a rock since 2000..because I swear there was someone worse. (I say worse….because I at the very least want a leader who can properly speak English and at the most I want a leader that Im confident with..even with all the bumps along the way) I get that we are all in a free fall. I get that we have anger issues and I also get that we like to blame everyone except ourselves. What I also get is that if you can not offer up a BETTER solution, then the one proposed, your screaming and yelling will fall on deaf ears. How about putting all that energy into looking at ways to turn this sinking ship in another direction. Im not a financial wizard, I dont know what the best course for us to take will be, but at least I can say without a doubt…Im at the point where Im willing to try anything..anything….as long as it is drastically different then what we had in the past. New century, new ideas and hopefully a much better US of A!

jackieb:”Do you understand that this job crunch we are in now took a long, long time to come down.”
I agree. I supported Obama during the campaign and continue to. But there is no need to lionize him. He is intelligent and sincere in his efforts to do what is the best for this country – but most of our past presidents can claim that too. His skills working Congress are just average, but he excels at clear communication of policy.
Overall, he’s obviously a solid good president but has not (yet) earned a ranking of great. I stand by my original opinion that he only looks great since he is following a scandalously incompetent president (crammed down our throats by the Fundamentalist Republican Party), but hope to see him excel in time.

As of right now, the DOW, NASDAQ and S&P 500 are all higher than they were on January 20th.
I thought everyone was supposed to be going Galt?
………………Jan. 20…..Today
DOW………….7949……..8056
NASDAQ………1440…….1618
S&P 500………..805………843

This is no suprise. No one in their right mind would ever accuse Obama of not being a smooth and efficient communicator. However, it should be noted that settling a verbal dispute between 2 people in the same room AND ratifying current global financial laws in order to regulate the actual practices of 6 billion people is something completely different. This isn’t even news is it?

Not surprising since Obama and his administration have such expertise in the area of taxes.

Soon after Mr. Obama helped to resolve the problem,
=================
Thanks for the more details, Jake. Would it be correct to say the argument was ended, but the problem not resolved?
I’m also having trouble understanding the sourcing. Most of this is from an Obama administration official, except for the part about how heated the exchange got. Am I reading that right?

Simple fact for all the GOP wingnuts….
Our President impresses where ever he goes and whoever he meets because he has the intellect to build consensus. The rest of the world and 65% of the American people get it. It is you bitter losers who follow Limbaugh and the rest of his ilk and the GOP naysayers in Congress who have lost their way. Sadly, if you are so disgusted with the direction America is heading there is no where in the world that would be willing to take you….well maybe Mexico or Guyana.

2008=Humanity Won!!! Yeyyyyyy!!
For the first time in 8 years I am REALLY proud of my country.
Godspeed President Obama

dd22-
When you’ve finished making your bet, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

That was QUALITY LEADERSHIP: President Obama is full of it. That is why we the people, chose him to lead us and our GLORIOUS country,
The United States of America.
A country born to lead mankind.
I feel very proud of President Obama.

The reason they like him over there is because they know O*AMA can’t say no, he’s a puppet on a string. He can’t even talk without help, remember the party he gave where he thanked himself.LOL I wish they would LOVE him so much they just couldn’t let him go, KEEP HIM, let him steal all your money we’re broke!!!!!!

Hates on Board Make sure You Listen to Limbaugh, Fox News and Glen Beck Today so you can Repeat their Lying Garbage!

@countrygirl_74
You said: “remember the party where he thanked himself”.
Actually, no I don’t, as it didn’t happen. What I do remember is a teleprompter malfunction that caused the person who followed Obama to the podium to start reading Obama’s speech again which started with thanks to that person – after which Obama stepped back to the podium and jokingly thanked himself for the invitation, which made people laugh. That tiny part is the only thing you hear about in the so-called “liberal” media, without any context.
New Rule: Dittoheads who repeat demonstrably false GOP talking points without actually bothering to find out what really happened, need to go away.

The GOP is only interested in regaining power, they have done nothing to help any of the current crises. Obama has already showed he is a ‘doer’ and not ‘an empty suit’ or ‘puppet on a string’ as his critics have harshly tried to charactize him

“New Rule: Dittoheads who repeat demonstrably false GOP talking points without actually bothering to find out what really happened, need to go away.”
But that’s the funniest part.
The puffed up right winger parroting what they heard while claiming they are critical thinkers.
I mean that is high comedy!

“No losers, they can’t keep him b/c he is OUR president and some of the very uneducated don’t know what they are talking about. The largest REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH came under the Administration where the middle-class and poor got paid less and sent more of their sons and daughters to fight in his dirty war. While the richest 1% got a tax break in wartime. Go have your little tea parties and cry me a river, but you better stop using your SOCIALIST FIRE DEPARTMENT, SOCIALIST POLICE DEPT,AND SOCIALIST PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.”
——————————
A – men!

What a nightmare. Sarkozy want to take concrete steps to specifically list tax havens – i.e. places for tax *cheats* to hide their money – so that they may possibly be sanctioned and what does Obama do? What any self-respecting president of the USA would do: the bidding of the wealthy tax cheats, by helping morals-bereft China water down the requirement. Why? because listing tax havens might hurt some Chinese banking centers. So for our prez, protecting Chinese banking centers is more important than protecting the taxpaying public by listing and ultimately shutting down tax havens. Now, what were those GOP blowhards complaining about??

Obama does our country proud and anyone who refuses to admit it? Needs to grow up and realize that while we may not always agree, we are always Americans.

President Obama has made us all proud to be Americans! How wonderful to have competent, intelligent leadership. Our standing in the world is back. We are respected again. Let’s see, yesterday it was the Russians, today he brokered an agreement with the Chinese and the French. It amazes me how the critics just don’t get it, and are not appreciative of the great leader that we have in President Obama.

> The word “note” — as in “we note the
> OECD has today published a list” –
> doesn’t necessarily carry any weight.
The word *necessarily* is used advisedly here.
I’m a member of the Technical Advisory Committee of the European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts.
We use “note” to convey: Most of the committee agrees this is a good idea, but we couldn’t reach consensus.

world consensus and transformational change doesn’t happen over a single meeting, kudos to Sarkozy for trying, but kudos to Obama too, for recognizing that these problems will have to be solved slowly and steadily. I am proud of my president.

+1 to Chester!

here it goes

How many will die of heart attack this day.
Obama has succeeded where BUSH / CHENEY failed

Fianlly a president who acts and speaks in an intelligent manner and who people can respect. God Bless Pres. Obama…I am so proud of him and his wife too!

Obama refereed a watered down position, deferring to his Chinese creditors (politically savvy but actually against
our interests) but he comes away looking like a superb master of compromise and diplomacy. Israel is plutzing (trembling at the knees).

Gee, Nicole, maybe it’s not a lead story because of the RANK incompetence of 1) his transition team, 2) the congress, 3) the soviet style manhandling of the economy, 4) the blatant disregard for tax payments in ALL of his team, 5) his gross violation of campaign finance regulations, um…take your pick…
or, you could be really pleased that he used his voice to quell a disagreement. You people want “peace” when there is no peace…the issue still STANDS, weirdos…he didn’t “fix” it. But, haha, be PROUD. You are as partisan as the people you claim to loathe.

This is from the October 25, 2008 edition of The Australian newspaper… the last year of Bush’s presidency… in an article about Paul Rudd, Prime Minister of Australia:
“Informed sources have confirmed the discussion took place on a speaker telephone with a Rudd staffer taking notes.
After the President explained the pressure from Europe for a G7-brokered action on supporting the credit sector and reforming regulation, Rudd immediately insisted the G20 was the solution.
Rudd was then stunned to hear Bush say: “What’s the G20?”

according to a source?? oh please.. that’s BS talk for let’s make up a story and make Obama look like the golden God he is….
so how do you all feel about the newest trillion dollar budget the democrat control senate/house is trying to pass.. i think this is their 3rd major budget they are trying to pass since Obama’s election. i mean is ANYONE concerned about this??? is ANYONE thrilled about more decision making from a corrupt government on passing a major budget that will end up bringing us worse in Debt? the moment that Obama signed his 747 Billion dollar stimulus, the blame for the previous administration debt stopped that day. Obama owns this latest debt and he is the first president in US history to increase the national debt within the first month of his presidency.. pretty scary.

You’ve got to be kidding me. He sends two world leaders into time out and takes credit for being a peacemaker? That’s so ridiculous, when he’s screwing everything else up in a big way, making our country vulnerable to socialism, terrorism and on the verge of losing its sovereignty. Pray for our country and pray for President Obama…that we might not be an OBAMA-NATION.

I will say this…..
The British are finding out just how “GHETTO” these two are.
Barry….The I-Pods are for family in Kenya. There….you are BIG man!!!
Here….you areBIG embarassment!!!

If I read the comments by the conservatives, I cannot but conclude that their aggression has bereft them of their power of discrimination. America has a enormous problem it continues to glorify ignorance and anger.

Obama pushed the Chinese version over our ally, France, and he probably offered another $500 billion of our money to the IMF.

Wow! There’s not enough room on this blog for the HATERS. President Obama, thank you for putting America back in the role of leading the world.

glad we finally have a leader instead of a puppet of the far right. Obama is starting to prove he is presidential.

Hey buddy, the Dow Jones just broke the 8,000 point threshold today for the first time in two months; the S&P and NASDAQ are now higher than when Obama took office; the markets are starting to regain confidence because leadership is actually being displayed on housing and market stimulus measures for once.
When the markets dip, its the Obama Depression; when they rise, we all offer a sacrifice to his High Majesty George for his brave interventions. Did I read the script right? Ha!

Well Golly “Gee”, Diane, I don’t remember stating that I “loathe” anyone or anything, nor using the word “peace” or proclaiming we had in some way achieved it?
The words I used were “adults”, “role models” and “competence”. *yawn* Substituting in words and distorting statements to which you don’t agree, doesn’t work anymore… didn’t you get that memo on November 4th?
For all the criticism and blame you throw at our 70-something day long President, you seem offer no alternatives or suggestions… typical.

Mr.Tapper, you are a real jerk! It is PRESIDENT OBAMA! He is the President of the United States whether you like it or not. You have to respect him.

“Mr.Tapper, you are a real jerk! It is PRESIDENT OBAMA! He is the President of the United States whether you like it or not. You have to respect him.”
What? It says ‘President Obama’ in the first paragraph.

Of course everyone has a liberal bias. No one wants Americans to fail. Only the ones who think they can pimp Reagan over and over again and not make people want to vomit.

What is the problem with all of you Palin supporters? Do you think she would have been able to have a conversation with any of the other World Leaders?
John McCain would have been sleep!!
President, yeah I said PRESIDENT Obama became President because he is just what this country needs!!

I’m glad we have a real statesman in the presidency. A person who is intelligent, cultured and who deals with people and problems as an adult. He is representing us very well in Europe and in the rest of the world. I’m glad I voted for him.

For those clapping yourselves on the back… did you notice that the United States is no longer the leader of the world as it was before Obama went to Europe. This marks the end of our Super Power status. This is a sad day for America. Obama is a disaster.

Reading the remarks of SA makes me wonder if SA is actually reading the article or just assuming what SA wishes would be true. President Obama is the first leader of the free world who the rest of the world respect and can work with. President Obama is exactly the man we need right now to be running things in America. When the markets where falling the fascists where blaming it on the president. Now that they are rising where are the fascists? Hiding out and hoping for the fall of America. Patriots? No way.

“President Obama is the first leader of the free world who the rest of the world respect and can work with. President Obama is exactly the man we need right now to be running things in America.”
So what exactly did Obama accomplish with this little diplomatic show? What changed? What great breakthrough did he make? This whole story is such a joke. What’s sad is the fact that you can’t see that Obama talked China and France back into nothing more than the status quo. THE PROBLEM REMAINS in case you missed that.

“President Obama has made us all proud to be Americans!”
speak for yourself, most Americans were proud of their country long before Obama came around. You’re sounding like a phony “fair weather” patriot.

SA,
Did you just crawl out from under a rock or something? This has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read…
“For those clapping yourselves on the back… did you notice that the United States is no longer the leader of the world as it was before Obama went to Europe.”
Bush took care of whatever standing we had years ago. Looks like the President has taken a firm step in restoring our standing. It’s about time.

… such negativity & partisanship… particularly from the GOP side (why do you want the country & President to fail)? We have been failing miserably for the past 8 years, we (AMERICA) deserve some success & respect. Aren’t we ALL AMERICANS!? BTW, Yes “they” are laughing behind closed doors… however I’m afraid that “they” are laughing at America & Americans in general, also our failed domestic & international policies, they are not laughing at our current President, they are laughing with him. “They” however are also laughing at how the main stream media can easily manipulate & divide sooooooooooo many of “US” sooooo easily!

I am pleased that President Obama has kept his focus on the larger picture of cooperation and has been able to keep the dialogue open. Though some posts have decried what they view as empty language, I see it differently. This was a one day meeting, and the language of the compromise leaves the issue on the table for further dialog, diplomacy, and negotiations. The concern was not swept under the rug, was not ignored, and was not voted down. More than one day will be required to deal with issues that are complex in nature. I applaud President Obama. Well done.

Honestly this is the most logical response I’ve seen so far. My only beef is that some people act like New Jesus just walked on water.
“Though some posts have decried what they view as empty language, I see it differently. This was a one day meeting, and the language of the compromise leaves the issue on the table for further dialog, diplomacy, and negotiations. “

What’s the deal with the “thumbs up” in the group photo? Can he be that naive?
“In Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq and Thailand the ‘thumbs up’ sign is traditionally an obscene gesture, equivalent to the use of the middle finger in the Western world.”
I guess he’s not well versed in international relations…
Hey Sigh, in case you didn’t know it this meeting took place in London where a thumbs up means the same as it does here in America. And he is an American president who is representing America, not Iran or Iraq or any other country where the thumbs up is a gesture of disrespect. Therefore, giving the thumbs-up is appropriate and not at all naive. Your comments are just symbolic of the President Obama haters who will grasp at anything to be critical. To you I give TWO BIG THUMBS UP! Take that anyway you like!

Good for Sarkozy!! The idea that ANYONE _IN_ China could get away with being a TAX CHEAT is… Hello? (TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIP) ridiculous.
But the Chinese want to be able to take advantage of European, American, & other Western CHEATERS evading their countries’ taxes.
The USA (with the insanely, morbidly greedy (not to say “treasonous”) neo-Confederates & entitled Neo-Cons ruling US government, Congress, the media, acadamia, AND now the Obama administration as well – all united under the banner of “FREE MARKET CAPITALISM” (which of course means quite the opposite, the ability of BIG PLAYERS to RIG and FIX the markets, i.e. monoopoly CONTROL of every market they can sink their teeth into)), will almost certainly defer to the China agenda, i.e. “TAX CHEAT HAVENS FOREVER!” lobby.

So proud of our wonderful President Obama and Mrs. O. They have been exemplary in their representation of our country in Europe. The rest of the world loves them. What a refreshing turnaround from Bush.
I am one PROUD AMERICAN!

Roxsteady: If your kid just maxed out his credit card, do you reward him by giving him a new card w/ twice the credit limit and encourage him to max it out again, or order him to pay down his credit card debt first?

Obama leaves the country and the stock market rallies ..amazing. I hope he stays out!

“Good for Sarkozy!! The idea that ANYONE _IN_ China could get away with being a TAX CHEAT is… Hello? (TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIP) ridiculous.
But the Chinese want to be able to take advantage of European, American, & other Western CHEATERS evading their countries’ taxes.
The USA (with the insanely, morbidly greedy (not to say “treasonous”) neo-Confederates & entitled Neo-Cons ruling US government, Congress, the media, acadamia, AND now the Obama administration as well – all united under the banner of “FREE MARKET CAPITALISM” (which of course means quite the opposite, the ability of BIG PLAYERS to RIG and FIX the markets, i.e. monoopoly CONTROL of every market they can sink their teeth into)), will almost certainly defer to the China agenda, i.e. “TAX CHEAT HAVENS FOREVER!” lobby.”
WOW LJ. This is the first time I have seen someone accuse President Obama of being a capitalist! the truth is that before this administration NO ONE suggested that the tax havens should be closed. Finally we have a leader who is not beholden to BIG MONEY and will go after the fat cats who hide their ill-gotten gains in off-shore banks. Time for the tax cheats to pay up. And before you fascists start SCREAMING about the nominees who had tax troubles I will say that they should be held accountable and made to pay what they owe. And their actions are in no way equatable to the person who knowingly stashes millions and billions off-shore to avoid paying taxes. These are the people who cost this country BILLIONS in tax revenue every year and we finally have a president who is going to put an end this.

Sounds like some of you are the benefit of this socialist president.
Steal from the productive and give to the unproductive.
Thieves and laziness are not virtues.
The only skin he wants in the game is the the skin to enable him spread the wealth around.
When all of your liberties are gone as a result of supporting this president, you shall be the new slaves and he shall own you.
Less Government (Corrupt)
More Freedom (Responsible)
More Personal Responsibly
Stand up for the constitution

“Steal from the productive and give to the unproductive.
Thieves and laziness are not virtues.”
What a stupid thing to say.

That is what leaders do. President Obama is good for our country and that in turn is good for the world. Our markets are now higher than when he took office and consumer confidence is on the rise.
The vitriol from the right is juvenile and moronic. You can taste the latent racism in their words. Mostly you can feel their fear they express as hatred.
These last years have exposed the right to be simple minded and full of anger at anyone not like them. Let them go on their way as humankind becomes more tolerant, more intelligent and more liberal. Just as George Washington hoped for.

Sarkozy is hardly moral. There is a little postage stamp called Monaco stuck to the soft white underbelly of France. No income tax, 50 billionaires. Europe is riddled with tax havens, every country has a few favorites. When tax revenues fall, the hue and the cry goes up. Hong Kong is not a tax haven as much as it is a real capitalist financial center that the whole world depends upon. Sarkozy was trying to win votes at home, but the French are ready to elect somebody new. Even his pretty wife can’t stand him anymore.

I am so proud of the way that President Obama and first lady Michelle are representing themselves and our country to the world. God bless and watch over them both. I know that I would have been one disapponted Democrat if McCain had won the election, but I don’t think I would have been so bitter and angry as a lot of the posters have been, I think that four years and hopefully eight is such a long time to have your blood pressure up and have anger in your souls, it’s really not good to live like that.When I pray, it’s for the President and his family and all of my fellow Americans and our country, I have to live my life as an optimist and with love in my heart.

Obama, you are the man! Keep up the good job of restoring our image abroad.

I like the obama-haters here. It’s hilarious! In the relentless effort to hate Obama, they are now defending the socialist of all socialists – the president of France! (didn’t we hate those frogs last week?) And why? because Obama was interfering in Sarkozy’s attempt to pressure China into what? Regulating Markets!! ahh, the pillar of conservative values!
So many posters are so nakedly without values. They just despise blindly.
They ought to support China since their commitment to unregulated markets is so… Ron Paul. But instead, their racism kicks in and they beat their chests and root for the white guy. Certainly not for their president.

Geez, Obama … you’re making us proud to be your neighbour.
Jonny C

Not being an American I have been a bit of a fence sitter and have over time felt supportive of both Republican and Democratic Presidents at different times. However, since the election campaign of ’08 and political activity since the election of President Obama I feel now I can sit firmly in the Democrat camp for several reasons. Not the least being the absolute stupidity and degeneration of many GOP supporters. Intelligence and the ability to rationalize seems to have deserted the Republican party that I used to hold in some regard. Reading many posts here today yet again confirms my suspicions that the current Republican party and many of their supporters have lost their way, their integrity and their common sense. Beau @ 4.29 is exactly right.

Lets face it, China and its leaders are very smart. They take, take, take until [you] SLAP THEIR COLLECTIVE HANDS and draw a line in the sand. They pirate software and intellectual property and then claim “oh we are trying SO hard to stop this”, devalue currencies, turn the other cheek for quality control in favor of profits, exploit their billion Chinese people using the carrot and stick ( prison / death ), censure all media, hack into US govt computers to steal anything they can and are ALWAYS trying to steal technology through shadow companies. They DO NOT want to prevent tax cheats or close tax havens as it is against their own best interests. WE MUST GET INDEPENDENT CONFIRMATION THAT THEY ARE PLAYING BY THE RULES OR THEY WILL SKIRT LAWS.

“”Thieves and laziness are not virtues.”"
Who is lazier than a Republican? Not a thought in a head unless borrowed from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glen Beck.
Too lazy to think…

JMart is reporting that indeed, WH aides did call a press briefing to make sure everybody knew about Obama “breaking up” this dispute.

I’m very proud of my President today. This is the kind of leadership the world needs. These men are the leaders of the world, and Obama not only fit in, but showed true leadership in a room full of leaders.
America will not only recover economically, we will be stronger than ever. USA, USA, USA!

This one story basically sums up the most important reason for electing Obama. Here is a clear example of him doing something that Bush couldn’t do, and that McCain wouldn’t do anymore.

mary u have ur dnc/media matters points down pat!but hey ur getting paid min.wage ,so i suppose u better…really?blue states must be awesome then!i guess cali isnt on the verge of bankruptcy,and NY isnt trying to raise taxes on everything but the amount of microbes on your body?yeah lets do that!lets go that route!you dems are brilliant!

Wow, we have a President that can make peace not war.
Markets are up, we’re taking the lead in the world again. Repubs are sooooo frustrated that their ideas have been shown to be more bankrupt than AIG. But Obama’s not going to bail them out. R.I.P. Reaganomics and cowboy diplomacy.

The naysayers’ comments are quite laughable. You only reinforce that this country seriously needs education reform…being educated obviously missed the boat with you.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

Everyday I am glad that I voted for President Obama. It is so wonderful that he can represent us to rest of the world instead of the crazy people posting here who can’t think beyond the nutty screaming fearfullness of the radio show entertainers.Where were you all when the Republicans put our lives and our money at risk? Yelling all crazy about something else. Everyone I know is relieved that there is a fair minded and able person directing our country.Deal with it crazies. No, I don’t care about Acorn or the hand signals or the tax havens or salary caps or communism or birth certificates or Mrs. Obama’s mood or Queen Elizabeths feelings or unborn babies or what happens to your guns, or patriotism. I just care about me, my family and friends and my money.

tears, I love this President with all my heart. Anyone who finds fault with him, would find fault in a Saint.
How anyone can say anything negative about this man is mind boggling. He is an incredible human being.

So … what President Obama just did with his intervention was to help the Chinese keep loopholes for people who don’t want to pay taxes. That’s what
tax havens are. Nations like France, the U.K. and of course the US are loosing billions because of these loopholes.
And I thought that paying taxes was patriotic. It’s the same as with the
AIG bonuses. Please don’t be angry when you hear that a CEO transferred his company to the Cayman Islands or Monaco. That’s what President Obama
just agreed to.

“The Obama administration official described this compromise as a “meeting in the middle.” The word “note” — as in “we note the OECD has today published a list” — doesn’t necessarily carry any weight.”
“Moreover, any sanctions are “future-oriented,” the senior official said, meaning there are as of now no actual sanctions.”
So Obama helped the Chinese and French
“appear” to accomplish something when in reality nothing concrete was accomplished at all.
This can only be considered a success to liberals and people who deal in “thoughts” and “emotions” instead of actions and reality.
Probably the same reason all the liberals posting here call Obama a “saint” and “Great leader” even though he has lied or broken just about every campaign promise he made:
(no lobbyist,no earmarks,transparency,troops out of Iraq,no middle class tax increases,no signing statements)…on..and…on…and…on
Obama throws truth and accountability out the window while his sheep stay on bended knee.

I’m proud or my President for the first time in over a decade. I can feel the people of the nation, no, the world are so happy that the United States is taking the moral leadership of the world. Think of it, Barack Obama’s father was Queen Elizabeth’s subject in a third world colony. Now he and his wife are meeting with her equally and in friendship.

If this had been Bush, he would have pulled both leaders together and after ignoring both their opinions, given his own and told them to take it or leave it, or maybe said something like about his views being America’s views and they’re either with America or against America!
LOL….what a difference an articulate leader makes. Thank God!

It needs to be remembered that China operates by a somewhat different set of rules. Corruption is rampant throughout the country and the ‘government’ understands and recognizes this. This corruption is their form of capitalist economy in a way. To keep corruption in line, the government rules with an iron fist that would not be tolerated in any democracy in the world, as in handing down death sentences on very flimsy evidence.
With this in mind, obviously the Chinese cannot wholly agree and cooperate with a western style ‘rule of engagement’. As example, Macao is a giant money laundry and they know it, and place their own limitations and restrictions on it that are, to the west, as unacceptable as the corruption.
It is rather amazing that Obama took note of the east meets west mindsets and was able to find some common ground. Hats off to him.

I see that Obama’s community organization skills is turning out to be one of his greatest assets. He can negotiate different points a view and build a consensus. I hope Sarah Palin enjoys eating her own words.

Never poster here before, but just thought I’d point out some things.
One: The G-20 summits do accomplish important things, but very, very slowly. Always slowly. Nations are like big 18-wheelers, not small zippy sports cars. So anyone trying to turn this meeting of the world’s leaders into a “It’s just the same old b.s. P.R. thing” is half right, but also half wrong.
Something *was* accomplished, and what was accomplished, though it may not be enough yet, was actually good. So that is, by definition, a good thing.
Two: The only hatred I see being spewed forth here is by self-described conservatives (example: “Just wait till we conservatives pull all our money out of the banks,” etc.), which is really a shame, because you people should be rooting for our country and all the countries of the world to pull out of the mess we’re in (a mess we’re in due to conservative policies, I might add), since this mess affects you, too.
Three: Obama’s breaking up of the argument between the French prez and the Chinese prez was an example, yet again, that what Obama has been saying and demonstrating since before he started running for office – that he wants everyone in this country to actually work together instead of brow-beating each other with their own petty differences of philosophy – is actually true, and not just pleasant hyperbole.
Four: Any conservatives claiming that Obama is a bully are just flat-out projecting what they, and their former leader, did 24/7 for the past eight years.
Thank God we on the left actually beleive in fair-play, even when it’s tempting not to, even when those on the right haven’t displayed any such principle in well over twenty years.
All right. Nothing too profound here. Anybody who wants to, feel free to rip it apart; it’s what you do. (But when you’re done doing that, why don’t you try actually doing something, anything, positive with your time, if only for a few minutes. You might find you’re a happier person because of it.)

I like Obama but in this time my focus goes to Hu Jintao: he (like all chinese) is very smart, didn’t accept OECD list, in fact they only want to preserve tax heavens….what Obama’s charm use for? for nothing..please give me a break with the charm¡¡¡¡ (sorry my english)

Online GOPers are angry that Obama didn’t side with the FRENCH?
What happened to the freedom fries?

sylvia…Well that’s where your wrong..I do not HAVE to respect Pres. Obama, but I SHOULD respect the office of the Presidency as we live in a DE.MOC.RA.CY..you know Freedom of Speech without fear of recrimination….

President Sarkozy is famous for his lack of patience.
He gets fired up – and unbecomingly rude – at the slightest sign of disapproval from whomever.
He suffers from a ” Napoleonic complex”.
He is quite unpopular in his own country, even to some of the people who voted for him.

Can u imagine George Bush breaking up this fight? John A. McCain? Sarah Palin?
…..
Now, Hu was fighting?

Nothing funnier than hearing Republicans and conservatives talk about Obama stomping on the Constitution. Republicans have never seen a Constitution they didn’t want to stomp on. Illegal wire tapping, holding people without charges, legislating for one sick woman, allowing undocumented workers to come into the country in order to break the unions, etc. etc. etc. Obviously not all of these examples are constitutional questions, but they are good examples of what Republicans were about for more than eight years…oh and don’t forget Nixon! Republicans have made a tradition out of stomping on our Constitution and other laws. I mean really, even their leader Rush Limbaugh gets the two confused. I wouldn’t be surprised if a good majority of Republicans didn’t know what the Constitution is.

For those conservatives who have reluctantly conceded that this was an achievement (even if ‘it was his first as President blah blah’), ask yourself: “What does this tell me about the temperament of our President?” And “How does this President’s temperament compare with the last Republican President’s?” These ‘little’ things don’t happen in a vacuum. They reflect instincts built into a character developed over a lifetime. Conservatives, thank you for (finally) conceding, even if unintentionally, that our President is a great man.

I bet they are glad we have a president that can put more than 2 words together to make a sentence.

Well said Pter! Bravo! Post more.

Terry and Phil – You both make great points on this “socialism” being thrown around. Good points indeed.

While I agree that this isnt a big deal in and of itself it does show that the US is still in a unique position in the world. This is a hard thing for conservatives to grasp because on average they tend to be revisionists or just plain ignorant of history. The acrimony between Europe and Asia is pronounced. Two centuries of colonialism and institutional racism dominates the dialogue. The US and Canada dont have this history. We are Europeans who left Europe for many of the same reasons that Asia takes issue with. In a way we have a shared history with Asia. We have a strong bond both culturally and financially. Sadly these were nuances lost on the last administration. This administration has a different worldview and more importantly a different view of America. As a nation we are at our best when we aren’t reactionary or self indulgent. This is especially true when dealing with the Chinese. They believe that to show anger is to show weakness. You may not agree with Obamas policies but I think most can agree that his patience and even temper serves the nation well in matters of state.

I am so proud to have Obama as our President.

Poyda, I’m with you. I thank the universal conscienceness for Barack Obama. He’ll make mistakes, he’s human, not like the monsters that ruined 40 years of the US’/International diplomatic negotiations because of two STOLEN elections.
My biggest issue is that the Repubs are master hypocrites in every possible way. And, they have the FOX Network as their very own information manipulators. Good thing FOX is “Fair ad Balanced”. Geez, they treat their audiences like uneducated idiots, which I’m afraid the majority of their viewers (who believe) are.
Got off on a tangent there, sorry.

President Obama is doing a great job. Way to Go Barack!!

Congratulations Jake. Absolutely the very best American -dignified & precise reporting Jake. A job very well done. From a group of 84 in Canada.

Don’t you just love it when Republicans in Congress claim that Obama is a socialist, and here this bunch of hypocrites gets all their medical insurance and pensions paid for by the American people! And they’re against Universal Health Care for us? Something tells me that the Republicans are so out of touch with reality right now. They have no message, no real leaders.
Look who they have now…Palin, Cantor, Limbaugh, Hannity…all kooks!

Intelligence has returned to the White House. This is so refreshing on a daily basis. This man is working hard to restore America. He is WORRIED about Bin Laden… making the necessary decisions to keep us truly safe, not NATION BUILD. THANK GOD FOR BARACK OBAMA.

Yes, let’s all hail our great Messiah, The One. Never mind that daily he is eliminating your freedoms. For heaven’s sake, how could anyone so charming be doing anything so bad? It is sad, for when you wake up, it will be too late. Does anyone here have any familiarity with Revelation. Well, that is just a ridiculous question, isn’t it?

“Yes, let’s all hail our great Messiah, The One. Never mind that daily he is eliminating your freedoms. For heaven’s sake, how could anyone so charming be doing anything so bad? It is sad, for when you wake up, it will be too late. Does anyone here have any familiarity with Revelation. Well, that is just a ridiculous question, isn’t it?”
What freedoms are you talking about? Elaborate please?

The naysayers are amazing. They wouldn’t recognize “taking our freedoms away” when they saw it. Where were they over the last 8 years?

from the comments,i understand most of america know quit little about china

We got the president we deserve, no he is not the one.
Big deal, what he did is what he supposed to do, he just it does better than anyone else.

I’m an American who has parents that are both European and Australian nationals and I also import from China to the USA. I’m surprised that I haven’t seen anyone comment on Jintao’s need to “save face” against Sarkozy’s aggressive posturing. I think President Obama may have helped Sarkozy and Jintao to accommodate each others unique cultural/political needs. Whatever transpired, it did require a very strong and uncommon intuitive insight on our Presidents behalf. Very nice.

Yet another example of why I am so proud to have Barack Obama as our president. Bravo, Mr. President. This is the kind of leadership we need.

Does this mean the killing will stop?
Troops come home? Investigations into bush crimes will start?

TJ, what freedoms did you lose under Bush?
Under President Obama, the AIG employees who received bonuses are being harassed and receiving death threats. And Congress is trying to punish them by taxing 90% of their contractually guaranteed retention bonuses–which by the way is unconstitutional. Now there are some Americans who are really losing freedoms.
I can’t wait until you who are so blinded by President Obama’s charisma and articulate speech wake up one day realizing that you won’t receive health care treatment because you smoke or eat the wrong foods; you will have to pay much higher prices for energy due to the Administration’s cap and trade policies; and your children or grandchildren will be REQUIRED to serve a year or two in Americorps or another similar service organization.

Well, for James Danley, per Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party (of which I neither voted for or am a member of):
Following are examples of freedoms which President Bush and his fellow Republicans in Congress have already expunged (as reported by the Associated Press):
FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans’ papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Who’s your fascist now?

The Repubs would have us believe McCain or Palin or maybe even Jindal would have done a better job and that’s why they are really, really scary.
Obama is a phenom. He’s doing things no president has ever done before. He’s writing the book. Forget about Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt. This guy is smoking us all.
And still the Repubs are telling us he’s a disaster, or like Limbaugh, wishing for a disaster.
Don’t forget, these are the guys who were telling us Palin is more qualified than Obama.

Oh, I get it James Danley. As long as government perverts the constitution, and it doesn’t pertain to you as an individual, you’re scott free. The constitution is interpreted on an individual, case by case basis. See, I wasn’t briefed on that part. I thought it encompassed Americans as a whole, my fault entirely.

I’ll need a source for that ACORN charge, sir.

The republican party would have had a volcanic eruption cover us in 10 feet of ash, just to make their fiscal responsibility point, wouldn’t they Mr. Jindal.

mnLIT, prior to the most recent Supreme Court ruling last year–which overturned the previous Supreme Court ruling during WWII–foreign war prisoners did NOT have a right to Habeas Corpus. So President Bush was acting within the law!

There have been violent detractors against all of histories great men. I prefer to spend my time watching our real-time history unfold instead of arguing over smaller minded ideas. Presently, not a single person can say that they’ve ever accomplished what our President has accomplished in short order. You’re missing the boat, the election is already over. I’ll form my ideas and debates just before the next election. It takes oodles of brains to create Obama’s calm charisma and spontaneous, nearly surgical, responses; certainly, most people can see that he can use them. I am also confidant thus far that Obama has acted with altruistic intent instead of for the typical political ego.

A President Indeed!

>> mnLIT: I’ll need a source for that ACORN charge, sir.
Sheesh, so much for a free and open press. I posted a link that would take you to the story, but I just checked back and noticed that someone moderating this board took it down — I assume because it took you to someone OTHER than ABC News.
So, to answer your question more generally, simply Google theses 4 terms words: Obama, Acorn, donors list, investigation. That will call up various news articles from just the other day giving you the lowdown. But suffice to say, a whistleblower has come forward and already given sworn testimony that the Obama election team coordinated efforts with Acorn with regards to revealing it’s donors list, and thus knowingly and willingly wbroke Federal Election Laws.

Andrea and others, you are so blinded by President Obama’s charisma that you fail to HEAR HIS WORDS. Back during the campaign, on July 2, 2008, The One said the following: “We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”
So President Obama wants a civilian national security force the size of our military–1.2 million men and women– with a budget just as large–the 2009 U. S. Military Budget is reported to be $515.4 billion (some estimate the true budget is actually over $700 billion).
ASK YOURSELF: What are the national security objectives that require having a civilian national security force that large? And require spending that much money to fund it?
WHATEVER THEY ARE, if it requires 1.2 million men and women and over $500 billion to go out and promote and enforce “them,” “they” must be something that the vast majority of Americans aren’t readily willing to accept.

MayBee: You can’t seem to give our president a kind word…wonder why? Let me tell you something….Mr. Judd Gregg says Obama will ruin our children’s future….well it is already ruined and was ruined by the lack of action by the republican party. No steps were taken by that adminstration in the last two years to stave off any thing of this nature. The economy was ignored…our childrens’s future is ruined but not by Obama. They were the ones who took away the sanctions and let the banks run amuck and gave no attention to the job losses or the housing situation. All this was going on for over a year and did not start with Obama’s presidency. They are blowing smoke to cover their inaction. What a laugh. If the potty mouth Rush is their symbol of the future…God save us.

Why does James Danley conveniently neglect to include the fact that it has been the republican mantra of “DEREGULATION,” the REPEAL of the GLASS-STEAGLL ACT & the implementation of Phil Gramm’s GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY ACT that brought us to such catastrophic financial devastation?

Hey James: the democrats tried to get things passed but the republicam president vetoed them. You can spin this all you want, the controls were removed from the banks by the republicans. The republicans did not speak up as they do now to the president and demand that things be done to help stop the bleeding of the economy. If they had suggestions, their own president did not listen to them. Now they want Obama to listen to them. The put out a package with a nice cover and said the rest of the package will come next week….why put it out in the first place without the solutions? They increased the spending and some honest republicans admit they went too far so don’t give me the democrats caused this problem. Face what is actually the truth and let’s get on with fixing it.

What about Delaware ????

…..all this and he guarantees auto warranties too…where does he find the time? My Hero

Capitalism is not to blame for this current economic crisis, the federal reserve and currency manipulation by central banks are to blame.
it is amazing how short sighted and easily mislead most are. we have not had free market capitalism in this nation for years. the federal reserve has constantly manipulated it by chaning interest rates and currency supplies. read Thomas Woods’ new book Meltdown for a laymans understanding of why government/central bank manipulation of markets will only lead to tyranny and opression. Thne try Hayek or Mises when you are ready for a true understanding of liberty, free markets, and unrestricted free market capitalism where the market is the regulator. there is no other impartial regulator and this is the only system where people are free.

Here’s the irony. Americans would probably be much better off if the two had walked out of the conference, and nothing got done. But, oh sure, bravo. Well, I’m off to look for three more jobs so our 4% of the population can save the rest of the miserable world who won’t save themselves. Ciao, now.

Pure class; it’s the small things that define a mans character and this was one of them

“Capitalism is not to blame for this current economic crisis, the federal reserve and currency manipulation by central banks are to blame.
it is amazing how short sighted and easily mislead most are. we have not had free market capitalism in this nation for years.”
Free market capitalism is inherently unsustainable. It’s a system where property is power, and all life revolves around competing for it. It rewards selfishness and penalizes compassion. As in any competition, you don’t get ahead by helping others, and somebody is eventually going to get ahead. Chances are extremely high that it will be someone very selfish. Somebody is going to operate successful business, amass more property than others, and thus have more power to run more successful business. It snowballs.
Soon we find ourself in a situation where Person A has complete ownership over something Population B needs to survive. Ultimately, this means that Person A gets to make all the rules and Population B has no choice but to live by them.
Suddenly, there’s no more free market.

“Now then what you are describing is NOT the Free Market but the INDIVIDUAL. The Free Market is not selfish or greedy. It is the Individual who may be selfish, greedy or even a criminal. It is the Individual who is or isn’t compassionate.”
The free market is competitive. Competition is naturally egocentric. Competition is about winning for oneself. Thus, it naturally favors selfishness. Not that competition (being an abstract concept) is selfish, rather it rewards selfishness. Thus, free markets grant power to the selfish. Selfish people will naturally use their power in order to gain more power. Thus the free market destroys itself.
Unless rules are put in place that prevent anybody from ever getting ahead, which in itself is a contradiction of capitalism’s core principles.
The ideal of the free market is logically impossible.
And the idea that freedom and inequality are incompatible is inherently contradictory, and flies in the face of history. First of all, inequality means freedom only for a few, therefore not a free society. Then there are modern historic examples of successful anarchist societies, but they were all torn down by imperialistic invaders. There’s also the fact that over 98% of human history is indigenous (Civilization as we know it hasn’t been around for very long), and indigenous cultures enjoyed huge amounts of freedom, equality, sustainability, and a relative lack of violence compared to “civilized” cultures.

SalmonGod, you are attributing human traits to a concept. The Free Market has no emotion, it has no feelings, it is incapable of judgment. It is a concept! It is the humans within the Free Market system who chose to be selfish or compassionate. It is the humans within the Free Market system who chose to act responsibly or not. In a FREE society it is not the responsibility of the government to dictate compassion or force people to act responsibly. It is the government’s responsibility to indict, prosecute and convict those who BREAK THE LAW, not who fail to meet a compassion test or who fail to meet a test for acting responsibly.
Our founding fathers wrote the U. S. Constitution so that the federal government would “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.” The federal government is responsible for allowing an equal playing field, not guaranteeing everyone will succeed equally. We still (at least for now) believe in the Individual’s right to self-determination: By virtue of that right they freely determine their OWN political status and freely pursue their OWN economic, their OWN social and their OWN cultural development.

“SalmonGod, you are attributing human traits to a concept. The Free Market has no emotion, it has no feelings, it is incapable of judgment. It is a concept! It is the humans within the Free Market system who chose to be selfish or compassionate. It is the humans within the Free Market system who chose to act responsibly or not.”
You’re misinterpreting. Yes. Free Market is an abstract concept. Yes. It’s people who make decisions.
But Capitalism is a concept which sets forth principles by which society operates. In other words, it’s a way of life. When I grow up in a society which operates in a certain way, it has a very strong effect on my world view.
I’m not saying that Capitalism is some conscious entity that’s actively trying to poison my mind. I’m saying that just as a desert raises people who value water, capitalism raises people who value property. You’re born into a world where every idea, place, and thing is owned by someone. To have ANYTHING, even the necessities of life, you have to get it from somebody else. The only way to do this is by trade. If you have nothing to trade, you have to sell yourself and/or your labor. You can’t rely on generosity, because people who give up their property freely give up their own market presence and eventually have nothing to give. Some people have far more than they could ever possibly need, but they didn’t obtain it by being generous.
Thus, unless you’re born wealthy, you’re born a wage slave. You find a person/entity who owns tons of property. They tell you what to do, and hopefully you’re able to find a master who can/will offer a decent livelihood in return.
Keep in mind that it’s extremely unlikely, as discussed earlier, that this master is a generous person. You’re selling yourself to him. You are living life by his rules in exchange for the right to live. This person has absolutely no reason to have interest in designing those rules to your advantage. He will give you what you need in order to serve him.
Of course, you have freedom to quit at any time (ignoring the likelihood that you’re bound to a contract), but then what? How do you support yourself?
How this resembles an equal playing field or any kind of self-determination must be far beyond my comprehension.
“In a FREE society it is not the responsibility of the government to dictate compassion or force people to act responsibly. It is the government’s responsibility to indict, prosecute and convict those who BREAK THE LAW, not who fail to meet a compassion test or who fail to meet a test for acting responsibly.”
You nailed it. Right on the head. Remember that property is power, and it’s most easily obtained by the selfish. It naturally follows that any government, no matter how well-meaning in its original creation, will become populated with wealthy, selfish people. The wealthy have the time and resources to pursue government influence for their own ends, while their (wage) slaves hardly have the time or resources to even figure out what’s really going on in politics because they’re too busy working for their right to exist.
The only way to avoid this consolidation of power is if society enforces a limit on the accumulation of wealth, and somehow ensures that nobody ever finds a way around that limit, thus gaining enough power to remove it. Not likely. Not to mention completely contradictory to free market ideals.
It’s funny you so enjoy referencing the founding fathers also, because many of the most famous of them were extremely critical of their own ideas. I won’t write a dissertation here on the characters of people like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, or Andrew Jackson. If you’re interested in truth, you will take the initiative to read up on history you weren’t taught in high school.
Suffice to say that most of the highly regarded founders of the U.S. wholeheartedly admitted that their institutions where highly vulnerable and could easily be turned on the very people they were created to protect, if those people were not extremely vigilant and even occasionally violent. Andrew Jackson is an especially striking example of this, as his presidency was marked by a heated battle with a bank which he saw as growing too large, gaining too much political influence, and threatening the long-term freedom of the nation. How very Un-Laissez Faire of him.
But then, he couldn’t live to fight banks forever, and we all know much gigantic power they wield today. Naturally, wealth consolidates and freedom disintegrates, even if it begins as a free market.

“To take that comment literally would mean that there really is no such thing as the “American Dream.” However, the proof is in the pudding! There have been millions of Americans, and even thousands of legal immigrants, who have LITERALLY gone from “rags to riches.”"
I think you’re blowing this way out of proportion. Sure, some people pull it off, just like some people survive plane crashes… against all odds. With so many billions of people in the world, there will be those who break the mold. But in the larger picture, I guarantee it’s a very small percentage. I bet for every person who pursues their dreams with dedication and manages to achieve a better life, there are 10 more people who work their fingers to the bone every day their entire lives and never achieve anything. They’re too busy scraping a day to day existence from the bottom of the barrel.
Besides, you’re talking about the *American* Dream. Well what about the rest of the world? The U.S. only contains about 4.5% of the world’s population, and our success rides on the subjugation of other nations… even continents. I suggest you read up on the CIA’s “Dirty Wars” in South America for a good starting point on that subject. We basically turned most of South America into a slave economy. It’s not conspiracy theory. Knowledge of these actions have come straight out of the CIA itself in courtrooms, declassified documents, and the remorseful confessions of their own operatives. Plus, I work for U.S. Customs. I SEE it with my own eyes in paperwork every day. They ship enormous amounts of clothing here through free trade agreements like CAFTA for measly cents, which are then sold over here for literally hundreds of times the price for the profit of American businesses. Several of these countries like Honduras, Peru, & Argentina were forced into these situations under the looming presence of death squads trained & funded by U.S. interests.
That’s the true nature of our American Dream.
“TO LIMIT WEALTH IS TO LIMIT IDEAS AND THE ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT! So much of the technology we use today was created as a way to make money–discovering or developing more efficient methods or products to sell to customers who want to improve their lifestyle or make their work more efficient.”
So you are literally telling me that preventing the power hoarding of a selfish (as you no longer seem to be arguing that point) minority of society and the subsequent subjugation of the majority is an obstruction of progress?
Not only do I find this sentiment disturbing, but I would argue that the profit motive hinders progress more than encouraging it.
For example, you know why we don’t have clean, renewable energy yet? It’s because fossil fuels are such a steady source of profit, while nobody’s figured out how to charge for wind and sunshine… yet!
How about software? It’s noteworthy that many open source (i.e. anarchist!) software developments outperform their commercial alternatives, but that’s just a side note. Software, once written, is essentially an unlimited resource which offers humanity enhanced knowledge, power, and cultural enrichment. Imagine how humanity could benefit if ALL software was free! There’s technically no reason it shouldn’t be so, except for the profit motive.
How about pharmaceuticals? Third world countries can’t afford most brand name medicines. At the same time, pharmaceutical companies have been pushing more and more aggressive intellectual property laws in this industry, so that nobody can make cheaper generic alternatives for the poor. So millions perish in the third world due to curable illnesses, because giant pharmaceutical corporations refuse to allow the expendable poor to cut into their profits.
Here’s one that will hit closer to home for most people, as sad as that is. So many people complain about how stagnant Hollywood, the music industry, or video games are. They keep pushing out the same ideas and content over and over again. We all know it’s because executives insist on producing work which has generated profits in the past, regardless of what new and worthy ideas are available to them. They have no reason to take risks – no reason to pursue progress, because of the profit motive.
How about today’s housing situation? So many people are being forced out of their homes, but for what? So they can sit empty and rot in negligence? What good does that do anybody? How is this progress? These people are being cast off like garbage by our society for no other reason than they’re not generating profit, and property owners have no reason to share with those who do not offer them profit. Did you know that banking officials have admitted that 2/3 of the homes they repossess are being kept off the market in order to keep prices artificially high? So much waste in the name of profit! But this doesn’t count, you say, because it’s counter to free market ideals! They’re not adhering to the principles of supply and demand! But it’s their property. Do they not have the freedom to refuse to sell it? If we restricted their freedom to do as they please with their own property in order to enforce free market ideals, is that still a free market? Heck, is that even capitalism anymore?
Now what would happen if we cast off the profit motive? Do you honestly believe that people would just slump to the floor and waste away in pools of lethargy? Of course not. Instead of doing what generates profit, they would dedicate their lives to doing what matters to them. Priority #1 would be ensuring the means of survival.
There’s a lot of people going hungry in the world. At the same time, did you know that 2/3 of the food on grocery store shelves gets thrown out? Look up Freeganism, Dumpster Diving, and Food Not Bombs – entire social movements built on nothing but the wasted nourishment of capitalism! Did you know that many farmers are actually paid EXTRA to produce at less than their capacity so that agro-businesses can maintain scarcity and keep their prices up?
I guarantee that this mockery of human need would not continue in the absence of a profit motive.
Look up the Spanish Revolution of 1936. It’s a fantastic historical example of anarchist principles effectively put into action. The entire nation cast off government and capitalism. They managed to not only maintain effective infrastructure and livelihood, but improved productivity in some sectors and even defend against violent fascist invaders for a couple years through simple de-centralized, collective organizing.
As for progress, all of technology stands on the shoulders of scientific giants who operated not for profit, but for a love of knowledge. Plus, do you honestly believe that people would stop trying to improve their lives just because they’re not getting paid for it? I find the notion ridiculous
“Now there is ONE aspect of the latter comment that should be considered: Term limits for Congress! So many of our Representatives and Senators have made careers out of public service. Many have accumulated wealth on the backs of the taxpayers and have far too much power.”
Of course I agree with you, but as long as society operates on capitalist principles, this isn’t going to change. They got there by the power of their wealth, and the power of their wealth will maintain this status quo. A massive popular movement may change things temporarily, but eventually people will falter in their vigilance and wealth will move in and reinstate its position of power.

“Many of the “10 more people” exhibit intregrity, dedication and sacrifice much in order to provide for their families. For many, the sacrifices they make is reciprocated by the love they receive from their children. That love is HARDLY “never achieve anything.”"
When they get to see their children… if their children don’t spite them for never being around… if the experience of growing up practically without parents doesn’t leave them emotionally dysfunctional…
“Life is not fair. If it was there would be no physical or emotional pain, there would be no sickness, there would be no death. So the best we can do is live our lives in spite of the hands we are dealt.”
Yes. Those things are a given. This is why life should be cherished and equally valued, because we all face those realities (I was about to say equally, but I changed my mind). Instead, 90% of the world is forced to spend the majority of their lives scampering to support their lives – never truly living.
A study by the World Institute for Development Economics Research at United Nations University reports that the richest 1% of adults alone owned 40% of global assets in the year 2000, and that the richest 10% of adults accounted for 85% of the world total. The bottom half of the world adult population owned barely 1% of global wealth.
“In a Free Society under Capitalism and the Free Market, those who are dealt–metaphorically speaking–lesser hands CAN improve his or her lot in life, and possibly improve the chances that his or her children are dealt better hands, through hard work and determination. Individual entrepreneurship thrives!”
Just because a handful of people manage to improve their status doesn’t mean it’s possible for everyone, or even possible for many. Remember that if you’re not wealthy, you’re forced to live your life according to rules written by the wealthy for the sake of reinforcing their status. You also seem to be speaking from a very American perspective. America is the most powerful nation in the world, and it’s no surprise that we enjoy some social mobility. In most other places, attempts to improve one’s social status are frequently met with violence, such as death squads in South America.
Take it even one more step further and consider that it takes a measure of selfishness to accumulate wealth. Seriously, when 10% of the world’s population owns 85% of the wealth, how does that top 10% live with that knowledge? I make less than 30k/yr, and I have trouble supporting two kids in a 3 bedroom apartment. Then I think about the fact that something like 5 1/2 billion people have it worse than me! I still haven’t figured out how to live with that! It’s incomprehensible! I KNOW I’m not better than all those people. When I think about it, desiring more for myself is like spitting in the face of all those people, and it’s really really hard for me to respect anybody cold-hearted enough to actually want to get rich.
“In a Socialistic Society the government uses social welfare programs to promote universal employment and health care. It is nothing more than pure wealth redistribution–punishes success and promotes complacency. There is little incentive for individual entrepreneurship.”
Am I really expected to believe that taking some resources away from a handful of selfish people who have more than they could possible need in several lifetimes of extravagance and giving those resources to a majority of people who cannot even afford their basic necessities is punishment?!?!
“A Communistic Society has a similar economic system of a Socialistic Society but adds political control. The Party controls nearly all aspects of (in theory) a class-less society, with everyone being equal and all property is owned by everyone collectively, not by individuals. The people are slaves of the Party. Individualism is practically non-existent.”
FYI, I’m not communist either. So I won’t even bother critiquing this, since we’re in agreement.
“In a Totalitarian Society the regime in power controls every aspect of public and private life. The regime deals the hands and determines who will succeed in life and who will be slaves to the regime.”
Isn’t this what I’ve been describing as the end result of any advanced capitalist society?
“IN SPITE of the faults it may have, I prefer a Free Society under Capitalism and the Free Market. I believe an individual has the God-given right to self-determination.”
Faults? I think the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of millions (by impoverished denial of food, shelter, and medical care or overwork or war for profit or I could go on) and economic subjugation of billions (wage slavery) should be seen as more than merely a “fault” of the system. I guess the saying is true. “The death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is just a statistic.”
You and I must have very different definitions of freedom and self-determination, because I don’t see either of these as features of a system which inherently promotes inequality and the conversion of human lives and life’s necessities into commodities.
And FYI, I don’t support any of the systems listed above. I’m an anarchist. I’m against all systems of social hierarchy or illegitimate authority. The core of all of society’s flaws can be traced back to the concepts of property and authority, which are interdependent concepts and inherent in all of the systems you listed.
Property is authority, and authority is the means of defending property. This applies to any society which recognizes either concept. The only free society is one which abolishes both, and don’t try to tell me that such a thing is impossible or has never existed. Indigenous cultures operated without these ideas for roughly 98% of human history, and some still manage to do so today, though authoritarian and property-oriented cultures which are inherently imperialistic have largely eradicated them.

“The society that you seem to be advocating has been around longer than mankind itself. You are describing the Ant World. But even that is not “perfect” because the Ant World is part of the larger Animal Kingdom, which is nothing more than the survival of the fittest. And ants have their own natural predators.”
An ant? That’s what my office managers try to turn me into – a single-minded worker drone devoid of all individuality. You’re telling me that a culture lacking property and authority is some kind of brainwashing dictatorship? And survival of the fittest? Isn’t that one of the mantras of capitalist competition?
And you’re saying we can’t survive without property and authority? Then how did we get where we are? The human race is roughly 200,000 years old, and the first civilization (Sumer) didn’t appear until like 7 or 8 thousand years ago.
Of course, if you’re the young earth type, then this discussion is already over. I respect Christians as much as anybody else, but you just can’t reason with “I’m right because the Bible says so.”
“The Human Race is incapable of surviving in a system that is modeled after the Ant World. That’s because in addition to our Inalienable Rights–Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness–God (I suspect you will now say that you are also an atheist) gave humans the gift of Knowledge and the ability to think and reason. Ants were not given these attributes so they survive well enough–unable to complain–with the tools that God gave them. Inevitably some individuals will decide that they are not happy living like an ant and they will either revolt or leave the community. Either way, there will be millions of other individuals who will join them. And the Human “ant world” system will be destroyed.”
No. I’m an agnostic. There are legitimate reasons to consider intelligent design, but anybody who claims to know the truth of creation (religious or atheist) must be blind to the diversity of ideas in the world… or just that arrogant.
And ya… I’m pretty sick of living in the ant world. Sure our demographics are a little better than theirs. We have 1-2% of the population ruling everyone else. For ants it’s probably more like .001% (a single queen), but it’s still not good enough for me. I know the world can’t be perfect, but actively making it worse is inexcusable. I cannot imagine any good reason to support an institution which wastes life, challenges freedom, and promotes inequality.
We CAN do better. I don’t even believe we have to go back to the Stone Age. If people stop wasting, hoarding, and laying claim to the earth’s resources, and we all exercise freedom from indoctrination and slavery… impossible under Capitalism. Communities will regulate and organize themselves to provide all their needs and more, and they’ll live more fully and freely in the process.
There are plenty of examples if you only bother to look. Enough people recognize the potential for such a life and are willing to act on it. We saw it in the American Revolution, the Spanish Revolution, and Greece in 2008. Many places and aspects of the internet operate peacefully and productively by anarchist ideals. We saw it in the Native Americans, many of whom still struggle to bring back their peaceful, free, and sustainable ways of life.
I just don’t understand how you can state these ideals of life and liberty, admit to constant horrors enacted by our societies directly counter to those ideals, be shown alternatives which didn’t have these problems and upheld your ideals, and continue to shrug it off and support the continued atmosphere of oppression we’re all forced to live in. It doesn’t make any sense.
“My own personal opinion is that our time here on earth is just a preparation for the hereafter–an eternity WITH God or an eternity FROM God. As humans, we naturally see, hear, taste, touch and smell based on our humanity. All of our thoughts and emotions are based on our humanity. But God sees things from His perspective. And we humans are incapable of understanding His perspective. I strongly believe that God allows tragedies and disasters to happen because He wants us to use these experiences to grow closer to Him here on Earth. And our reward will be an eternity with Him when our humanity is done.”
I hope you’re right, for your sake. I’d hate to live my life according to a single idea only to find out in the end it was wrong. What a wasted life that would be. Personally, I think it’s terribly reckless and tragic to bank the only life we can be sure of on the hunch that there might be something else.
There’s good evidence to support reincarnation, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to treat death like a reset button whenever I’m frustrated with my situation. This life is the only thing I can be sure of, and I can’t possibly justify taking any chance which might waste my life or anyone else’s.

Obama is a Sign of the World Entering Islam
He is a sign that Islam victory awaited. And he was selected with the concept of Islam to become president. Old concept of form from which they have abandoned the concept of Islam that is replaced is that he take and what would he give. Thus, he ignores personality profile and the focus on important national issue for the people of the United States.