The Pirates Crisis

To JAS.
To quote a wise man ” I prefer to know what i am talking about before i speak…and i prefer to know what i am dealing with before i shoot”.

I am glad the captain is safe. For a moment, I thought Mr. Obama will give another speech blaming America for pirates activities. Mr. Bush’s imprint is all over this successful operation. Just like Mr. Obama cannot take discredit yet for the economy, he cannot take credit yet for the military leadership of Mr. Bush 2.

Well done Mr. President.

Jake, for historical purposes can you find out if Joe Biden was involved in any way shape or form.

I agree with the Republicans who say this was an utter failure. Just because the hostage has been freed and there were no American casualties, they want to celebrate.
What I’ve heard is that they secretly want to give free psychotherapy to the terrorist / pirate and make the hostage admit that he’s the guilty one. Plus they want to take credit for this but pretend the global economy is not their fault. No, there’s no reason to celebrate until a Republican is in office! Then we’ll see some terrorists and pirates defeated for real!

Navy SEALs ROCK!!

Will Mr. Obama have to explain why he waited for several days to give an order? In the meantime, the pirates were able to move closer to land and put additional human shields into harms way. The answer is important to our safety.

Obama gave the Pentagon authority to use force if necessary to rescue Phillips. Not sure why he had to give authorization two times as reported. The Captain of the Bainbridge and the Navy Seals who took action, are heroes. Three simultaneous head shots – amazing!

jas, you ARE kidding, right?
so, was POTUS supposed to unleash a campaign of “shock&awe” on a small life boat?
let me guess, you enjoy leaders who are gutsy, listen to their guts, and leaders that act in a macho knee-jerk ruthless manner, right?
Sorry, but our POTUS is textbook…not gut intinct Bush…

Martha:”Will Mr. Obama have to explain why he waited for several days to give an order? In the meantime, the pirates were able to move closer to land and put additional human shields into harms way. The answer is important to our safety. ”
Can you substantiate your claim that he waited serveral days before giving the order? And what additional human shields were placed in harms way by waiting for the pirates to bake for a few days in a lifeboat while our special ops got three squares and unconditioned bunks?
This is a good display of the awesome skill of our special ops and basic good strategy of our military leadership.

The length that some of you posters will go to, trying to find fault with Obama’s handling of this situation, is truly laughable. It will be a very long eight years for you.

Pants on Fire:”You gotta wonder how using snipers to kill people who are negotiating with the FBI is “daring”, exactly … and how the double-cross will work out for the NEXT U.S. hostage(s).”
I know this may be tough for you, but go ahead and run out that line of logic. The US won’t pay a ransom, they’ll kill the captors first. The only value of this piracy is getting a ransom – it’s not like there is market for stolen ships in Somalia. And there is little question that the negotiators were continuously pushing the “Let me help you surrender or things could get very bad” line. So why are pirates going to target US vessels now? What’s in it for them other than a smoking hole in the water?

young_voter:”Mr. Bush’s imprint is all over this successful operation. Just like Mr. Obama cannot take discredit yet for the economy, he cannot take credit yet for the military leadership of Mr. Bush 2.”
And Clinton takes full credit for the stunningly successful military stage of the Iraq war, right? Obama gave the order – one that many of the neocons on this board condemned him for not doing when Philips tried to escape earlier (actually, it sounds like the order was in place then but the snipers didn’t have a shot).

I got the distinct impression that the Admiral wanted it settled by negotiating not violence. at least Obama gave the Captain of the Bainbridge cover since it approved the shooting. I doubt Capt Phillips was in more danger than before just that was the justification.
I do not support Obama and think he is a fool but at least he covered for the Bainbridge and allowed the Navy to save Captain Phillips

jhw539, let’s see, the ship was hijacked on Wednesday and Obama gave the first order Friday night. Other hijacked ships were being moved into the area with human shields. Use google to find the many, many, many articles out there regarding this.

It’s clear, it wouldn’t have mattered if President Obama had jump in and freed the captain with his bare hands, the party of no would still criticize him.
Some Americans just can’t get use to having an intelligent president especially since he’s not white.

At least when President Bush had a shoe thrown at him, it didn’t take him 4 days to duck.

Well done, and I’m happy for the family of the rescued captain.
Well done, Navy.
Well done, our President.
Next!

Those of us that have been there know what you really mean.
The Pentagon was really putting the pressure on the President Friday night. Then he finially allowed them to use force.
Some of us know how this really works…

Good work, gang. Congrats all around. The captain is safe and the bad guys got their just desserts. You don’t have to be Obama’s biggest fan to be glad the situation was handled well and the outcome was excellent. Let’s try to remember, no administration is always wrong and we should be as willing to praise when the current administration does something right as we are to complain when we think they are getting it wrong.

Martha:”jhw539, let’s see, the ship was hijacked on Wednesday and Obama gave the first order Friday night. Other hijacked ships were being moved into the area with human shields. ”
NO hostages were placed in additional danger by the delay. Not one showed up on site. That is reality.
Where did you see reported that the first order was given on Friday night? And do you deny the obviously good strategy of waiting for the perfect shot?

Way to go Navy Seals !!!! What took you so long ??

jhw, I suspect you are deliberately misunderstanding Sigmond’s point about recruitment when you seize upon his use of the word terrorist in connection to the pirates. He was pointing out that there is an inconsistency in some people’s response to this situation, because when we have used military force to defend american interests in other situations, some liberals tended to get the vapors and suggest this would only make matters worse and help al-quaeda recruit by inspiring anti-American sentiment. Now a Democrat administration uses force against the terrorists and it’s okay now. I’m glad you are coming around to that way of thinking, but it is a change from the past reasoning that Sigmond had every right to point out.
And why should he not refer to the pirates as terrorists? He was not saying they were al-Quaedi, he was saying they were terrorists. I realize the definition of terrorist and terrorism has been contested in recent years, but in its basic form, terrorism is the use of terror, particularly against noncombatants, to intimidate and influence behavior. It does not have to have a political motivation, although much terrorism does so. The Somali pirates have been attacking unarmed ships, acting unlawfully, creating fear, and acting unconventionally. The fact that they are motivated by monetary concerns rather than political ones does not, in my opinion, change the fact that they are terrorists.

Won’t this the fuel recruiting of new terrorist pirates? Isn’t this the same logic used by you and others that say we help al Queda recruit more terrorists when we take aggressive action against them?
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If this is sarcasm you have a point. if this is for real then you are being just partisan.
I believe you are being sarcastic. I have to remind you that not all of us on the left are against using force. I have been very liberal all my life, but I have always supported a strong military, used properly it is a wonderful thing.

Obama got his first kill.
Congratulations!!
No longer a virgin.

I just find it interesting that so many people seem to be willing to assume that Navy vessels move at lightspeed. I’m afraid this audience reads too many comic books.

moderate: This WAS NOT A TERRORIST ATTACK. It is just stupid to act like it was one – the motivations and objectives were incredibly different. Do you seriously not understand the difference? How killing theieves deters theft, but killing suicide bombers could actually result in more suicide bombers? Come on – use some basic critical thinking here.
Also, most of the ‘left’ supported President Bush going into Afghanistan – his approval ratings were at historically high levels. Your implication that the left never supports force is just not backed up by any documented reality. GWB EARNED the scorn of both the left and much of the right through incompetent and unnecessary use of force.

The SEALs arrived the time the USS Bainbrige did.
What do you suppose they were saying as they waited for 5 days to get authorization to engage.
What do you suppose they were saying as they watched the hostage jump in the water only to get recaputred knowing they still couldn’t fire to rescue him.
Sometimes, crap rolls uphill. You’ll note the increased pressure by the Pentagon to the WhiteHouse.

Obama made the right move by authorizing the use of force.
I don’t believe the SEALs arrived aboard, or simultaneously with, Bainbridge. I’ve had heard several reports that they parachuted into the nearby ocean with their equipment some time after the ship had been shadowing the lifeboat, and were then taken aboard Bainbridge.
A SEAL platoon was aboard the Maersk Alabama shortly after the captain was taken off, and rode with the ship to Mombassa.
Well done, US Navy.

Obama did not make the decision to go..The decision was made by the Capt. of the Bainbridge based upon his assessment of the mortal danger of the hostage…Standing Order!!! Right or wrong the decision fell to the Captain…

The SEALs arrived the time the USS Bainbrige did.
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BS the Seals Parachuted in at a later date and hid on the Fantail.

jhw, I never said that liberals NEVER approved of the use of force, such as in the initial invasion of Afghanistan. I put sufficient qualifiers in my statement to express clearly that I was talking about some liberals in some previous circumstances, not all liberals in all previous circumstances.
I also stand by my defense of Sigmond’s use of the term terrorist. I clearly stated that it depends on your definition of terrorist/terrorism. I was saying that in a broad definition, a pre-al-Quaeda era definition, the pirates clearly fit that label. I would say the same of Barbary coast pirates back in the day, etc., and even of Bluebeard. I did not mean to imply that these pirates, or any pirates, were engaged in something similar to those who blow themselves up on Israeli buses or in Iraqi marketplaces. I was instead arguing that terrorism takes many forms and that Sigmond was within his rights to characterize the pirates with that term.
Sorry that my responses raised your ire. While you may not like it, I communicate in English just fine, thanks. I am no more enamored of your posts, to be honest. If my students used your sloppy rhetorical and logical skills, I would send their papers back for a rewrite.

Moderate: Sigmond directly attacked my logic, hence my reply.
He said in followup to my post: “Won’t this the fuel recruiting of new terrorist pirates? Isn’t this the same logic used by you and others that say we help al Queda recruit more terrorists when we take aggressive action against them?”
Do you honestly not see the difference between pirates motivated by easy money and terrorists motivated by hatred? And how profoundly dishonest Sigmond’s statement above was?
Killing pirates means the money is not easy anymore. Removes motivation.
Killing terrorists (and their families and friends) deepens hatred. Increases motivation.

BS the Seals Parachuted in at a later date
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Just who provided security aboard the Alabama?
You’re saying they got there days later??? The Alabama left when the Bainbrige arrived.

The captain basically had to jump from the boat twice in order to start the rescue operation. The captain and the Navy are the proud Americans, Not Obama. But Obama will take all the credit, as usual. After all the poor president inherited the pirate situation from George Bush.

Phillips went to relieve himself – two pirates poked their head and shoulders out of the covered life boat – the 3rd could be seen through a window of the life boat – all three snipers were given green light – three timed simultaneous shots were fired – all lethal head shots – phillips jumped into the water when the shots were fired

Imagine Captn Phillips initial reaction when 3 headless bodies dropped with thuds to the floor of the boat. “Hello? what’s up guys?”

The credit goes to our military, not Hussein. Well done U.S. Navy!
No negotiations with pirates or terrorists … No mercy …kill em’ all.

I really like Obama’s style. He’s smart, he’s confident, but he doesn’t mouth off.
While the right wingers in the mold of Gingrich/Limbaugh/Bush and other trolls here see tough talk as a sign of toughness, Obama sees it for what it is, a sign of insecurity.
Speak softly and carry a big stick. Let your actions speak for themselves. I like his style.

Some posters need to read more carefully. Evidently the President received the request for authorization to use force on Friday which is when he gave the standing orders, so there was no delay in giving orders. And yes, the captain gave the actual order to fire but he had the CIC´s standing authorization to do so. That´s the way the military works, professionally and
with discipline. This problem occurred in international waters and it is an international nightmare. I don´t think
individual officers in the area are going to make any decisions without the full authorization of the government behind them.

Jhw, you ask for my ‘evidence’ that Bush was sniped at by Democrats early in his presidency, implying that I was depending merely on incorrect anecdotal evidence from my own faulty memory. I haven’t time to marshal a ton of such evidence, but I can supply what should be sufficient. ‘
When Bush was inaugurated the FIRST time, long before Iraq or Katrina, there were massive protests, described in numerous articles (just google it) as the largest since the Nixon years. Thousands of people, according to news reports, booed when he was sworn in.
Pete Hamil, a legit lefty journalist and author, wrote in Leftes Libres in early Jan 2001, before the president was even sworn in, “The coming presidency of George W. Bush should fill intelligent people with fear and trembling. It was one thing to have presidents stained with illegitimacy in the 19th century; it is quite another to have an illegitimate president in full possession of the mightiest military machine in the history of the world. Rutherford B. Hayes, a mediocrity who lost the popular vote and became president in 1888, did not have the hydrogen bomb.” He goes on in that vein for several more paragraphs. Yep, that’s giving the guy a chance, something Republicans never did for Obama, right?
Finally, I would direct your attention to an online resource on the American presidency from the University of Virginia’s Miller Center for Public Affairs. This is a scholarly assessment of the Bush presidency, not a right wing ranter with an ax to grind. In their section on George Bush 43, they write of the controversy over the election and then talk about the partisanship rampant as Bush took office and during the early years of his term. They remind us of how Terry McAuliffe, DNC chairman, and other liberals reacted to his early days: “We won that election, and they stole that election,” McAuliffe said in a 2001 speech to the Democratic National Committee. “President Bush tells us to get over it. Well, we’re not going to get over it!” Some of the nation’s most prominent liberals took their cue from such comments. “Bush is not our elected President,” Gloria Steinem told college audiences in 2001 and 2002. “He took office due to fraud in Florida. He should be impeached.”
Even with the national political unity, which was quite brief, following 9/11, the Republicans and Democrats had more that divided than united them in the first two years of his presidency. You cite NCLB, I counter with judicial nominations.
SOrry to go on at length, for the rest of you. But a longer response was, I felt, required to show jhw I was not incapable of rounding up evidence to prove what most of us remember clearly anyway. Jhw, I could go on, if you insist, but I hope to have made my point.

This is such a joke. The Obamedia is boasting that he passed his first national security test with flying colors.
I guess if you leave out the Korean missile launch and the Iran nuclear proliferation and facility opening, the inability to get fighting forces from allies to fight in Afghanistan, the promise to russia to remove missile defense while getting nothing in return, the border issues in the US, all of which he screwed up royally in just a few months, and moved our security backwards as he cut military spending, especially the missile defense spending.
So OK during his administration he defeated 4 pirates on life raft that was adrift with no fuel.
Too bad he can’t deal with anything larger than this!

Those of you who are linking piracy and terrorism, be careful. How much do you know about Somali piracy? There isn’t much at all in the corporate media, but you should at least look at a couple of facts.
The pirates started out as a civilian reaction to illegal European over-fishing of their coastal waters. Their fishermen were starving, between the overfishing and the dumping of European nuclear and other toxic waste off their shores (300 people dead of radiation poisoning after the 2005 tsunami).
They called themselves the ‘Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia’ and began demanding “taxes” from the illegal fishing vessels. The vast majority of the population agreed with them.
The Europeans have a responsibility in addition to helping stop piracy and kidnapping – stop the piracy of Somali ecology and fish stock as well.

Special Forces are Awesome..good job by The President and The Captain.. calmer heads worked well.

jhw539 wrote: “The Democratic congress let him (President Bush) pass his signature Bush Tax Cuts…”
Just as a clarification, the Republicans had control of the Senate at the time that the tax cuts were passed. There were 50 Republicans and 50 Democrats, with Vice President Cheney’s tie-breaking vote giving the Republicans control of the Senate until Senator James Jefford’s of Vermont switched parties. Sen. Jeffords purposely waited until after President Bush signed the tax cuts into law before officially making the switch. Had he switched before the Senate took up the bill, the bill would never have been brought up for a vote.

This ended well. It’s good that Obama can handle 4 pirates with AK’s. Blackfive says the Navy’s rules of engagement already permit what happened.
The real test is what he’ll do in response to the nxt pirate actions, as they have promised revenege.
And how’s that North Korea thing coming?

“And how profoundly dishonest Sigmond’s statement above was?”
“Killing pirates means the money is not easy anymore. Removes motivation. ”
Asking a question is a “profoundly dishonest” statement? lol
Nevertheless, if killing pirates removes motivation, why wouldn’t killing terrorists do the same to terrorists?

Obama is pathetic.
He had to sleep on it for three days to decide whether to take out the pirates
even if the Navy had a clear shot?
At what point was Captain Phillips not in danger since they always had guns on him?
He even jumped overboard and the Navy could do nothing.
It’s clear Obama balked at using force and only decided to when he began hear that the world was calling him a wimp.
To Obama it’s always about him and what is best politically.

The DOD had to ask Obama for permission to use force.
Obama didn’t initiate anything except hiding under the covers hoping it would end–with him not losing any popularity.

The commander on the scene is the one who actually made the decision to fire.
Credit for courage goes to: Captain Phillips, the commander, and Navy SEALs.

I find this amusing, you trolls were ready to blame Obama if things went wrong, but you give him no credit when things go right. How convenient.

You can’t doubt that the US took care of the situation, but we’ll have to wait to see what the long-term consequences of how they handled it will be. Still, these are some reasons to be a pirate, and getting shot by snipers isn’t one of them:

Subject: The real story of Obama’s Decision Making with the hostages.
Subject: AH, now it comes out
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn’t authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn’t do anything unless the hostage’s life was in “imminent” danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his “daring and decisive” behaviour. As usual with him, it’s BS.
So per our last email thread, I’m downgrading Oohbaby’s performace to D-. Only reason it’s not an F is that the hostage survived.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the
Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his
lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none
was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States,
Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff
unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2797846