Apr 17, 2009 8:49am
Truth on Torture
EmailMy discussion with ABC’s Diane Sawyer about the torture memos released by the Obama administration.
The memos go into surprising detail about the interrogation tactics approved by the Bush administration against Al Qaeda detainees.
Watch below.
–George Stephanopoulos
Biden Reflects on Grief, Suicidal Thoughts 
Is Congress Sounding Dumber?
Congress needs to be held accountable for this as well. A top Congressional delegation, including current Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was given a tour of these overseas facilities in 2002 and details on what actually took place and none, at the time, objected. It was only later that they criticized these activities. This was not done in the clandestine way continually suggested. Congress knew what was going on initially.
Posted by: bct | April 17, 2009, 9:00 am 9:00 am
George, your bias is getting worse.
You said this only happened under the Bush administration.
So you mean to tell me that the CIA never tortured anyone in all of its 60+ years unti Bush was elected???
More likely Bush kept the same policies that Clinton had.
Posted by: Spring | April 17, 2009, 9:01 am 9:01 am
This is more of a typing test to see if my keyboard still works.
bct’s post made me spit coffee all over the keyboard. The part about Hack Queen Nancy Pelosi. I invisioned her helping with the torture using the Wicked Witch of the West voice. And sploosh, coffee everywhere.
Keyboard seems to be ok. Some keys need to be double tapped to work.
Posted by: Jamie | April 17, 2009, 9:08 am 9:08 am
I wouldn’t be surprised that the CIA had always used or encouraged other countries to use some of these torture tactics against its enemies. But it was not until the Bush Jr. administration that such torture tactics were accepted as policy. That’s the difference, and a key one.
Looking at the list, I really had difficulty recognizing my own country.
Posted by: teddymaniac | April 17, 2009, 9:17 am 9:17 am
Read the memos, please…there are 2 important facts in them that aren’t addressed in the Times article-
1) Our own AirForce personnel have been subject to the exact SAME interrogation techniques for years…over 20,000 so far have gone through the SERE program and it is still ongoing today…why isn’t anyone accusing the USG of ‘torturing’ our own soldiers? Ever watch the movie ‘GI Jane’?
2) Hambali, who planned the Bali bombings, was aprehended as a result of intel ‘take’ from using these interrogation methods on KSM. Without a doubt, Hambali would have planned and executed more attacks if he wasn’t caught.This saved lives, period.
The President has tied his own hands when the next attack comes (and it will).
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 9:47 am 9:47 am
One other set of facts you will not read in any news report is that the Clinton admin regularly sent suspected terrorists to 3rd countries like Egypt (where real torture and pain takes place) for years and no one complained.
This was part of the rendition program under Clinton.
If you doubt me, go to cspan and watch the ‘rendition’ hearings and Micheal Scheuer’s testimony.
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 9:50 am 9:50 am
I don’t want my taxes to pay for torture. I morally object to it. The enemies may use torture, but America is not the Taliban.
Posted by: reason | April 17, 2009, 10:06 am 10:06 am
Will we all feel better about ourselves if we catch a terrorist that knows of an impending attack (like 9/11) and we do nothing because we feel morally superior to our enemy?
Will the president then come out and say we did the right thing, despite the deaths of thousands of innocents in less than an hour and a half?
The President has the audacity to hope that that moment never comes.
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 10:18 am 10:18 am
You bring up an interesting perspective J House.
I was opposed to torture. Thinking it as an act of revenge or punishment because we captured an enemy.
I never thought about it revealing information to prevent thousands of American deaths.
Makes one think…
Posted by: Jane | April 17, 2009, 10:33 am 10:33 am
Obama stepped on his you know what bowing to the ACLU in releasing this information.
I suggest the ACLU should submit a FOIA to terrorists questioning their next plan of attach.
Obama’s decision was absolutely stupid and sets us up as fools for the Al-Qaida publicity machine.
Posted by: motorcyklmikl | April 17, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am
J. House brings up SERE program…
Aren’t they training them to withstand TORTURE applied if they are captured by SOME OTHER COUNTRY or group?
Are you saying because our military anticipates other countries torturing our soldiers, we should feel free to do the same?
I would disagree…
Posted by: TN | April 17, 2009, 10:51 am 10:51 am
Like I’ve said from the beginning, the Liberals always have to have a villian and since they won’t make BO or any of the tax cheats, socialist, corrupt democrates the villians, they still have to go after an Ex-President. Perhaps we should just carpet bomb our enemies and kill everyone so that we take torture off the table. I swear you liberals cannot see the big picture. You put our country in a no win situation. We either have to kill everyone or send them to some club-med prision. Remember, these are the same people that chop peoples heads off with a sword and then video tape it for the world to see. These are the same people who pushed a handicapped man off a ship to prove a point. These are the same people who flew 3 planes full of innocent people into the buildings of civilians killing nearly 3K complely innocent people and this was before all of the torture claims were made. Now the savior of the world once again steps on his brain to sheild attention away from the complete failure of his relationship with Mexico and in the process, makes all of us a juicier target for our enemies and hands them the ammuntion. Thanks BO!
Posted by: Bob | April 17, 2009, 10:52 am 10:52 am
The use of torture is a search for a shortcut. It is, of course, not “what Jesus would do”, but it is also dangerous. The people who advocate torture tend to believe that it produces accurate results; the result is that the same laziness that produces the search for a shortcut also leads to sloppy evaluation of the results.
As Johm McCain has said, the victim will say whatever the interrogator wants him to say in order to get the pain to stop. At the same time, the torturer is likely to continue to torture until he gets a result that meets his preconceptions; if the victim tells him the truth and it is not what the torturer expects, he will think the victim is lying and continue to torture until the result is something he believes. This also applies to truth serums and lie detectors. For a fictional example, watch the Guns of Navarone.
Anothre issue, people tend to take their work home with them. Would you want your daughter married to a torturer and your grandchildren subject to his discipline? I would not.
If the CIA torturers are not prosecuted, at least send them to psychiatric counseling and deprograming so they are safe for their families and friends.
Posted by: Jim H | April 17, 2009, 11:03 am 11:03 am
The CIA is separated into four basic components: the National Clandestine Service, the Directorate of Intelligence, the Directorate of Science & Technology, and the Directorate of Support. They carry out “the intelligence cycle,” the process of collecting, analyzing, and disseminating intelligence information to top US government officials.
I guess is we sk them nicely they will tell us what we need to protect ourselves.
Posted by: jane | April 17, 2009, 11:03 am 11:03 am
Obama’s speech after the next 9/11 attack-
“Yes, we knew he had valuable information, but, despite the deaths of thousands of Americans today, we stood by our principles and didn’t slap or waterboard him to tell us about today’s man-made disaster. Words mean somet,and we stand proud of our principles”
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 11:21 am 11:21 am
TN,
I’m not advocating torture..what I am saying is-
1) We expose our own military personnel to the same techniques…you then judge the severity level on your own and call this ‘torture’ if you want
2) We ‘outsourced’ real torture under the Clinton admin rendition program..that is a FACT the former President still denies and the media ignores
3) I posed the moral question of the next impending attack and what a President should do to avoid the deaths of thousands of Americans when they have a ‘ticking time bomb’ situation
The last President clearly believed it wasn’t worth the risk of another 9/11 and sought legal guidance for these methods. I don’t condone it, but I understand the situation he was in at the time.
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 11:33 am 11:33 am
Rodney King got a worse beating than KSM or Abu Zubaydah and all he did was resist arrest.
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 11:37 am 11:37 am
Jim H: “The use of torture is a search for a shortcut. It is, of course, not “what Jesus would do”, but it is also dangerous. The people who advocate torture tend to believe that it produces accurate results; the result is that the same laziness that produces the search for a shortcut also leads to sloppy evaluation of the results.
As Johm McCain has said, the victim will say whatever the interrogator wants him to say in order to get the pain to stop. At the same time, the torturer is likely to continue to torture until he gets a result that meets his preconceptions; if the victim tells him the truth and it is not what the torturer expects, he will think the victim is lying and continue to torture until the result is something he believes. This also applies to truth serums and lie detectors.”
Well said.
Posted by: teddymaniac | April 17, 2009, 11:57 am 11:57 am
I remember a Jewish American being tossed from a cruise ship- attached to his wheelchair, a sailor on his way home beaten and threw to the tarmac of a runway, soldiers blown up in a disco, marines blown up in their camp while sleeping, embassies bombed, air force baraks bombed, planes blown up and of course 911. I am sure there are others I have forgotten but these acts of terror were mostly against Americans by radical terrorist, some, no doubt condoned by different governments.
Anyone can say what they want about the Bush years but one thing is for certain and that is most of us felt safe and some of us appreciated his and our Governments efforts – even if it meant the inconvienence of some terrorist as at least they are still sporting their heads.
Obama is the President and he can do things as he wishes and he can, if he desires, do things in a fashion that sets him apart from Bush. And if his choice in setting himself apart by making his predecessor look evil and bad then so be it.
Making ones self to look big while making others look small is not an enviable trait.
Posted by: david | April 17, 2009, 12:09 pm 12:09 pm
The big picture is that torturing a few hundred suspected terrorist is a recruiting tool to create thousands more terrorists. Not only did we not get good info., we created a bigger threat to the country.
Posted by: xmarks | April 17, 2009, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm
remember the tens of thousands of people tortured in New Orleans 9th ward
no home and no help and what about all the thousands that are tortured do to foreclosures and all thoughs who counted on there president to protect and serve the people I call that torture .Now you have some one has to clean up the mess of the Bush admin.
Posted by: dvplanetwaves | April 17, 2009, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm
The ‘recruiting tool’ argument should be put to bed. Prior to 9/11, there were thousands trained in the Afghanistan camps, perhaps as many as 50,000.
Many have argued Gitmo, the Iraq War, Abu Ghraib prison, US ‘torture’ of prisoners, etc. are the cause or recruitment.
It is true none of it helps, but if none of it happened they would still be recruiting new trainees by the thousands.
US policy in the Mid-East in general and support for Israel has MUCH more to do with recruitment than these reasons alone.
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm
I guess no one here watched the beheading of the American contract worker? I did. If we waterboard any of these people to get information so that no one has to go through what that guy did, I am all for it. If you honestly think we have not done worse in the past, you’re not very well informed. We have tortured people in almost every major confict that we have been involved in. Is it a horrible practise? Sure. Would I want it done to me? No…but I’m not causing anyone harm. I have no idea why we are concerned with what the likes of Germany and France’s opinions are on the matter. There are over 30,000 white crosses for fallen American soldiers in France alone. I could understand if we were pulling out their fingernails or cutting off body parts, but we’re not.
At some point, people will realize that war is not pretty. Military personnel and civilians both get hurt, killed, etc. Sure, it sucks…but that’s part of war. We have minimalized the impact to civilians greatly through smart bombs and other tactics…but accidents will happen. Modern warfare is not the same as it was back in earlier years. There are no ‘lines’ of soldiers in uniforms. We are fighting people in civilian clothes that blend in very easily. It is nearly impossible to tell friend from foe.
So, yes…torture sucks…but if it saves lives and it doesn’t kill or mame, why not do it? It could be your life that it saves one day.
Posted by: stdntDrvr | April 17, 2009, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm
The ‘recruiting tool’ argument is being made by commanders on the ground in Iraq.
Posted by: xmarks | April 17, 2009, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm
CIA always gets the worst of it.What a thankless group of people-
1) they go to the President and ask for legal guidance for these interrogation techniques in order to prevent the deaths of innocent Americans, and, so they can cover their ass when the next admin or media leaks the program
2)Permission is given and they inform Congress, as required by law
3) They carry out their duty, as instructed by the President
4) They then are hung out to dry for prosecution and public flogging
The interesting thing to all of this is the Obama admin satisfied no one- his opponents see it as an act of betrayal (for the publication of the memos), as well as his supporters (for not prosecuting)
Posted by: J House | April 17, 2009, 1:40 pm 1:40 pm
First of all you can get anything you want out of somebody with a simple shot in the arm or butt. After a couple of sessions like that you could be made to believe that you are a spider and you need to get busy looking for flies to eat. This is all grazing material for the sheep out there. We don’t need to attach batteries to anybodys body parts. This is all such nonsense. Why isn’t the media ‘gifting’ you with this knowledge? I have no clue. We have been doing ‘chemical’ interrigations since the south used to try to loosen up the north with a lot of booze to get information. You think we somehow lost the ability to inject people with chemicals, pick their brain and put them back into the sandbox to play with their toys? They won’t remember a thing. You people have no clue what torture is. How about the vietcong stripping lots of skin off of a young american and then pouring saltwater over the stripped area. They could get somebody to scream for hours, even days. Most of you people are clueless.
Posted by: J France | April 17, 2009, 5:37 pm 5:37 pm
Detailing methods used to question Al-Qaeda terror suspects, the memos reveal the use of dietary manipulation, forced nudity, facial and abdominal slaps, and the use of confined or “stress positions” for suspects.
Another memo details a “prototypical interrogation,” which begins with a detainee stripped of his clothes, shackled and hooded, “with the walling collar over his head and around his neck.”HELLO THIS IS NOT TORTURE IT’S HAZING. SADDAM HUSSIEN KNEW HOW TO TORTURE. AS I SAID IN ANOTHER POST THERE ARE SOME FREAKS OUT THERE THAT WOULD PAY FOR THIS.
Posted by: Don't waterboard me Bro! | April 17, 2009, 5:55 pm 5:55 pm
What is most disturbing about this is that everyone who stood behind the Bush Administration’s denial of torture is now turning around and saying it is somehow “OK” for this country to torture its’ prisoners.
Just because the memos bring to light what went on and that the administration lied about it (just as they lied about WMDs in Iraq and got this country into a pre emptive war instead of going after those who caused 9/11) does not make it OK by any means and no matter how you might feel about the prisoners, torture is against our federal law and the Geneva Convention. And just because other countries torture does not make it OK for us either. I always though the US holds itself to higher standards. I guess not! Appalling!
Posted by: ChrisB | April 17, 2009, 7:58 pm 7:58 pm
ChrisB,
What was the legal definition of torture before the law changed last year?
Was cutting off a head with a knife torture?
You’re really starting to sound dumb with your moral comparisons. We know you love terrorist but please try and hide your emotions a bit.
Posted by: Tabtwo | April 17, 2009, 11:19 pm 11:19 pm
Tabtwo
Your words speak for themselves. You clearly have no point or argument and therfore have to resort to a personal attack on someone you don’t know from Adam!
No wonder this country has gone to hell in a henbasket over the last eight years!
Posted by: ChrisB | April 18, 2009, 1:41 am 1:41 am
It is unbelievable that the Bush administration is not going to be prosecuted for their crimes. They committed high crimes and felonies. It sends a terrible message about what the rule of law means in this country.
Dave Young
Posted by: Dave Young | April 18, 2009, 6:18 am 6:18 am
I think congress has responsibility also. They get away with a lot. What about the AIG bailout, which they OK’d because AIG backs their pensions. Does AIG also back MAIN Street Media pensions too? Bush done a lot of bad things, but Congress is still acting in their interest, not Americas. Media talks about Congress and this Administration like they do no wrong. I think they need to wake up and give their viewers the TRUTH about what is going on in America now. They are just aiding the government in selling this country. I,m not anti Jewish, but I think we would not be where we are now, if the US would of stopped catering to them when they intentionaly fired on the USS Liberty in 1967, and took American lives.
Posted by: Harold Erb,USN,Ret. | April 18, 2009, 2:08 pm 2:08 pm
Getting intelligence from terrorists doesn’t come by asking “please”. What alternatives do the President or the American people have? Do we have an escalation of torture tactics by asking “please” once to asking “please” a thousand times? We’ll just annoy them to death to release intelligence to keep America safe?
I think this issue has turned into how much we hate Bush rather than national security. How many people would have disliked these torture methods right after 9/11 (not enought time to completely hate Bush)?
Posted by: Glenn | April 19, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am
Let’s be very clear on this. The Repubs support torture because they feel that the way to solve all problems in this world is to inflict violence, pain, confinement, destruction, and death on the darker-skinned subhumans, whether they be US “niggers” or foreign “ragheads”. The Bush admin, responding to the desires of it’s base, tortured 10s of thousands of human beings. To cover it’s ass, it found ONE case of torture where “lives got saved”.
The Repub morality is sure that of a vampire: whatever “saves” or extends the USA white folks lives justifies ANYTHING.
Posted by: Steve | April 19, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm
President Obama: Please protect our country and our people from extremists.In the Bible, it says an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth etc. Why in God’s name do people kill? Why did those extremists plow two civilian airliners into the twin towers? I really do not understand why you want our image in the world to improve. We hold the big stick. We need to continue to be a super power. At the rate you are going you are going to put us at risk with these groups who do not care about rules, principles,and who they kill.
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