Cheney’s Campaign Against President Obama’s National Security Policies
Former Vice President Dick Cheney may have largely stayed under the radar during his time in the Bush administration, but he is not going softly into that good night, seemingly launching a one-man campaign to fight for his legacy and — in his view — the safety of the nation.
Cheney has taken the lead in assailing President Obama’s national security measures and defending his own administration’s policies on the treatment of detainees, among other issues.
He took his case to the airwaves again Tuesday and lashed out at the Obama team’s decision to soon hand over 44 photos showing abuse of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), as ordered by a judge. Cheney said releasing the photos would only make the country less safe.
"What I think is important is that there be some balance to what is being released. The fact of the matter is the administration appears to be committed to putting out information that sort of favors their point of views in terms of being opposed to, for example, enhanced interrogation techniques," Cheney said in a Fox News interview.
The photographs are part of a 2003 Freedom of Information Act court case by the ACLU for all information relating to the treatment of detainees. Courts had ruled in favor of releasing the photographs into public view even though Bush administration officials argued that releasing the photographs would violate the Geneva Conventions, which protect prisoners of war and detained civilians “against insults and public curiosity" and it would also violate U.S. obligations towards detainees and could even prompt outrage against the U.S.
Cheney wants President Obama to fight all the way to Supreme Court.
In recent weeks the former vice president — on what might be called a "President Obama is making us less safe" campaign — has protested everything from Obama’s release of the memos outlining harsh interrogation techniques considered by the United Nations to be torture to the president’s more stringent rules on these techniques and his decision to close the detainee center at Guantanamo Bay.
– jpt
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I thought this had been settled.. I thought The Donald approved the photos.
Posted by: DontGet818OnMeNow | May 13, 2009, 9:00 am 9:00 am
Former VP Cheney needs to go back to fishing. He’s only added to the Republican’s problems by being so obnoxiously outspoken.
He stated he would rather follow Limbaugh – who avoided Vietnam just like Cheney – than Powell a long time, widely admired Republican and 4-star general who spent his life serving his country.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 9:04 am 9:04 am
Who do you want in a fox hole with you?, or in a leadership position in our country? Limpbaugh or Powell
cheney chose Limpbaugh who talkes the way he does for one thing $$$$$$$$
enough said
Posted by: enough said | May 13, 2009, 9:23 am 9:23 am
“Bush administration officials argued that releasing the photographs would violate the Geneva Conventions, which protect prisoners of war and detained civilians “against insults and public curiosity”
NOW they are suddenly concerned about the Geneva Conventions?
The ICRC (International Red Cross) said in their investigations years ago what they were doing “amounted to torture” and was a violation of U.S. and international treaty obligations.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 9:28 am 9:28 am
House majority leader Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md. reluctantly agreed Tuesday that congressional hearings should investigate Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s assertion that she wasn’t informed, more than six years ago, that harsh interrogation methods were used on an al-Qaida leader.
Posted by: Inconvenient Truth | May 13, 2009, 9:30 am 9:30 am
The guy shot a man in the face but wants to be taken seriously when he talks about “safety”.
Posted by: Kevin | May 13, 2009, 9:31 am 9:31 am
Sounds like a bitter old has-been to me. I consider him even guiltier than Bush. He should be put on trial for treason and multiple murders. He is truly evil. And I am a conservative!
Posted by: Marty | May 13, 2009, 9:34 am 9:34 am
“What I think is important is that there be some balance to what is being released. The fact of the matter is the administration appears to be committed to putting out information that sort of favors their point of views in terms of being opposed to, for example, enhanced interrogation techniques,” Cheney said in a Fox News interview.
LMAO and what did Cheney and Company do while in office … were they the bastions of telling us the truth … Good lord … the guy is a frigging control freak…and does not like not being in control of how information is being manipulated … I think someone must have overclocked his pace maker …
Posted by: Tilt | May 13, 2009, 9:34 am 9:34 am
No one in the interrogation business says torture works. They know it doesn’t. Victims will say anything. Maybe that’s why Cheney “is convinced” it works. They tortured prisoners to find a justification for the Iraq invasion, not ticking bombs. They got their false “evidence”.
After the horrors of WWII, the world, led by the USA, said never again to torture. This isn’t about whether torture works, it doesn’t. This isn’t about who was told in secret briefings, they can’t talk. It’s about Bush, Cheney and Republicans wanting to make their party the pro-Torture Party and America a formerly civilized nation.
Posted by: thebob.bob | May 13, 2009, 9:34 am 9:34 am
you people have been arguing for years that abu garaib and other Bush Admin policies have been creating more terrorists for years….Now you want to throw fuel on the fire in the guise freedom of information…what a bunch of hypocrites.
Posted by: Gravity | May 13, 2009, 9:35 am 9:35 am
Cheney is the only one who has this right. If Obama doesn’t want to maintain policies that have kept us safe for nearly 8 years fine, but to publicize memos and photos is treasonous. Perhaps the next administration will criminalize and indict his people for being morons. We can than continue to watch this country sink into the banana republic government the Bama seems to be hurling us toward.
Posted by: Tom | May 13, 2009, 9:36 am 9:36 am
how can you trust anyone who talks out the side of his muoth?
Posted by: robertkalenak | May 13, 2009, 9:36 am 9:36 am
Cheney was an obscure character for 8 long years, making no difference or impact. Now all of a sudden he realized that he was such a non-event, and is trying like crazy to make people aware that he actually existed.
Posted by: Cheryl | May 13, 2009, 9:37 am 9:37 am
Cheney…classic “cover your butt” talking points. Release the pictures and let America see what the Bush administration allowed to happen. Just a few “rogue” troops….yea right!
Posted by: anderson n carolina | May 13, 2009, 9:39 am 9:39 am
“No one in the interrogation business says torture works.”
Wow, what a well sourced contention- not ignorant at all.
Anyway – perhaps she is isn’t in the torture business (though looking at her face one wonders), but Pelosi sure seemed to think enhanced interrogation worked back in 2002 and 2003 and…
Posted by: 2Brixshy | May 13, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am
Without power Cheney appears merely pathetic. A sad end for a old power-broker.
Posted by: Eric Uhe | May 13, 2009, 9:58 am 9:58 am
Obama’s people go very public about cherry-picked stuff they don’t like from the previous administration, and Cheney is supposed to stay mum? In their dreams…
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 9:59 am 9:59 am
How can supporters of Cheney actually believe that Cheney is anything other than a modern RASPUTIN. He had his time in office and various senior government jobs, and it turned out very badly.
Few men have had such a deeply negative effect on our democratic and civil society. After years as a shadowy behind-the-screen wizard, he now goes public and bombastic? Such an evil man is hard to imagine. What would our country be like if Cheney had been involved in its governance from the very beginning? It’s chilling to even consider the idea. Rasputin, that’s what he is.
Posted by: enough3 | May 13, 2009, 10:01 am 10:01 am
“House majority leader Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md. reluctantly agreed Tuesday that congressional hearings should investigate Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s assertion that she wasn’t informed, more than six years ago, that harsh interrogation methods were used on an al-Qaida leader.”
LMAO – Love the right-winger spin.
Hoyer is seeking the truth on this topic, which is a good thing, but not for the deluded reasons you may think.
“Hoyer accused Republicans of creating a diversion by focusing on what information leading Democrats received about interrogation techniques. ” (The Hill)
btw – It may be problematic to cry who knew what when when Senators Graham and Rockefeller are in agreement with Pelosi on not being briefed on torture.
In addition, the disclaimer on the CIA memos from the CIA Director which states that descriptions of briefings “may not be accurate” should give people pause as opposed to marching orders for outrage.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 10:04 am 10:04 am
My joy knows no bounds:
“The tables have turned on ‘Memogate.’ House Speaker Pelosi and other congressional Democratic leaders clearly knew early on, via classified briefings, about President Bush’s approval of enhanced interrogation techniques for high-level terrorist detainees. Yet she kept silent.
“In an adaptation of the famous Watergate catchphrase, people have been asking, ‘What did the speaker know and when did she know it?’
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 10:07 am 10:07 am
I suspect Obama has been preempting Cheney’s upcoming book. The decision to release the CIA memos coincides closely with Cheney’s request to release certain CIA documents for use in his upcoming book.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:08 am 10:08 am
Water boarding is non-injurious and non-fatal in spite of it’s being declared illegal; and yes, it did work in learning of the plan to launch a terror attack against Los Angeles. Period. The Democrats in the House and Senate knew about it in detail back in 2003. Some in their leadership used it as a political topic during the ’08 elections never thinking the subject would get out of hand, take on a life of its own, and then jump back and bite them because of a bunch of Code Pink and MoveOn.org dingbats who are now drifting on autopilot still spewing their “anti-everything” rants. Maybe they ought to settle down and take a bath. That goes for the mainstream media too. The mass majority of Americans will never tolerate war crimes trials of American officials in lieu of the successes in Iraq and elsewhere. Maybe the anti-war screamers are “really” worried about how history will judge “their” treasonous words and “their” fifth columnist behavior as they enter old age accomplishing nothing. A lot of America’s sons, daughters, uncles, aunts and others fought in this struggle while the whiners and drum beaters sat on the curb and complained. The Americans who met the enemy and did something will inherit the leadership of this country, and they will be history’s ultimate judge; not the media and the hate spewing drum beaters on this, or any other news discussion.
Posted by: OIF_to_USC | May 13, 2009, 10:12 am 10:12 am
===”Hoyer accused Republicans of creating a diversion by focusing on what information leading Democrats received about interrogation techniques. ” (The Hill)===
LOL. Hypocrisy. That is what is being focused on. Cheney is willing to admit he was briefed on the techniques used and willing to admit he approved the techniques used. Can you say the same about Pelosi? Or any other democrat that was briefed and remained silent until it was politically expedient to do otherwise? I didn’t think so.
I bet it has come as quite a shock to democrats that the CIA is fighting back. Democrats were so sure they had them in their back pockets, after the Plame affair.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:14 am 10:14 am
How can a man who got 5 draft deferments have any credability? He is an evil man. I am not sure what he is up to but since he was hardly seen for 8 years and now suddenly he is all over the media……..this scares me!!
Posted by: pob | May 13, 2009, 10:17 am 10:17 am
As Bush’s VP, Cheney lambasted critics of their administration’s policies as un-American and unpatriotic and feeding into the hands of our enemies. Now he is the one doing the criticizing so by his definition, is Cheney a hero or a traitor?
Posted by: Tom in Alabama | May 13, 2009, 10:20 am 10:20 am
The “LA Terror Attack” was debunked along time ago.
Posted by: anderson n carolina | May 13, 2009, 10:23 am 10:23 am
To suggest that our country is somehow “less safe” because this information was released (as the court directed), is a red herring. Impossible to prove. It is just an opinion offered by the Limbaugh-Lovers.
Posted by: EdDoc80 | May 13, 2009, 10:24 am 10:24 am
What is pathetic is the whole Obama administration!
Posted by: Mr. T. | May 13, 2009, 10:25 am 10:25 am
Cheney’s a hero. That was easy.
Posted by: Mondo | May 13, 2009, 10:25 am 10:25 am
Democrats. More afraid of a former VP than actual threats to our country.
How quickly you all forget Al Gore and “he lied to us, he betrayed our country, he played on our fears”. Or maybe you haven’t forgotten. Hypocrisy is a theme in democratic lala land.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:27 am 10:27 am
Concerned: information was released AS ORDERED BY THE COURT. Of course during the campaign you were very much against Obama, why should we expect anything different from you now?
Posted by: William J. LePetomane | May 13, 2009, 10:27 am 10:27 am
“lashed out at the Obama team’s decision to soon hand over 44 photos… as ordered by a judge.”
I guess the Judicial branch’s power to check the Executive still rankles Cheney. It must really gall him that the Obama administration won’t push it up to the Supreme Court so the conservative justices can make a little law from the bench.
Posted by: jhw539 | May 13, 2009, 10:29 am 10:29 am
Axey – “LOL” Why?
How is Hoyner’s investigation “hypocrisy”? He’s looking into this for the right reasons, not tabloid headlines which is all the right-wingers seem to be interested in. Are you interested in the truth or just scoring far-right talking points?
There is a disclaimer on the CIA memos from the CIA Director which states that descriptions of briefings “may not be accurate”.
Those memos also state two other Senators were briefed on torture and they say they were not.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 10:31 am 10:31 am
Jake – I thought about this for a while. If you put Cheney’s every other week appearances in the larger context of national security, it makes sense. BO bows to the Saudis, shakes dictator’s hands and snubs our allies. He runs around the world apologizing for what a bad country America is. In 100 days, he made the CIA inefficient, tied its hands. I am worried about bad things happening in the continental US (I was not worried under Bush). I have not confidence in BO keeping us safe. He is the commander in chief (not the ‘star’ in chief, or the ‘celebrity’ in chief). BO ‘owns’ national security. He needs to own up to it. His little boy excuse ‘I inherited this’ will not work in national security. We were winning in Iraq, and now the violence is up. N Korea launched a rocket on his watch. Pakistan keeps going down hill. Afghanistan is in chaos (where is the far left asking for mea culpa over the 150 civilians recently getting killed?). On 9/11 we all (Rep/Ind/Dem) got behind Bush. If something happens now related to national security, you will have Dem saying it was not BO’s fault, but you will also have Rep saying it was totally his fault. I think on national security, Ind will line up with the Rep. After all, Bush kept us safe after 9/11, and BO took down much of everything Bush put in place.
Posted by: USA-NC-08 | May 13, 2009, 10:34 am 10:34 am
===
Cheney’s a hero. That was easy.
Posted by: Mondo | May 13, 2009 10:25:57 AM===
Ditto.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:35 am 10:35 am
Axey:”Democrats. More afraid of a former VP than actual threats to our country.
How quickly you all forget Al Gore and “he lied to us, he betrayed our country, he played on our fears”.”
First off, you shouldn’t put quotation marks around a paraphrase – if you’re not relaying the man’s actual words, don’t claim to be.
And secondly, Al Gore hasn’t spoken for the Democrats since 2000. Perhaps we should drag up some choice David Duke comments about our first African American president and claim he speaks for the Republican party? Or to be less extreme, claim Representative Bachmann (who makes Biden look like a demure wordsmith with a slavish devotion to accuracy) speaks for Republicans?
President Obama is the head of the Democrats and speaks for the Democrats. Pelosi and Reid also hold position of power (and are easier targets). Al Gore holds a token position in the party and speaks for himself AS a Democrat, not FOR the Democrats.
Posted by: jhw539 | May 13, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am
===He’s looking into this for the right reasons, not tabloid headlines which is all the right-wingers seem to be interested in. Are you interested in the truth or just scoring far-right talking points?===
Sure he is looking into this for all the right reasons. The #2 who would step into the #1′s shoes. Democrats are so pure.
I am not interested in any of it. I am fine with whatever happened and whoever knew, as long as they don’t pretend to be shocked, shocked that gambling is going on.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am
“First off, you shouldn’t put quotation marks around a paraphrase – if you’re not relaying the man’s actual words, don’t claim to be. ”
Those are his actual words. Look them up.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:38 am 10:38 am
I have never been warm to the idea that we should prosecute folks responsible for making the torture policy until now. I used to think, yes, torture is illegal but let’s move on — our plate is already so full. But with this despicable Cheney going on TV every day trying to rewrite history and, perhaps worse, re-define what constitutes our conscience as a nation, I think we really have an important battle to fight. Bottom-line is: we should do everything we can to prevent our great country from falling back into this filthy moral pit again.
Posted by: teddymaniac | May 13, 2009, 10:38 am 10:38 am
” Or to be less extreme, claim Representative Bachmann (who makes Biden look like a demure wordsmith with a slavish devotion to accuracy) speaks for Republicans?”
I like her. Go ahead.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:39 am 10:39 am
If Cheney believes the treatment of detainees was so appropriate he should STOP WHINING!
Posted by: Lori | May 13, 2009, 10:41 am 10:41 am
===
If Cheney believes the treatment of detainees was so appropriate he should STOP WHINING!
Posted by: Lori | May 13, 2009 10:41:21 AM===
Whining? I don’t hear whining. So he should just shut up while people call him evil and not the terrorists that wanted to, you know, actually kill you?
I am so glad I am not a progressive liberal.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:43 am 10:43 am
KSM was captured in 2003. The Bush admin announced the LA plot was kaput in 2002.
Seems like the torture resulted from disorganized, unprepared, unprofessional and dishonorable supervision, going right up to the President and VP.
Posted by: Danny | May 13, 2009, 10:43 am 10:43 am
===Seems like the torture resulted from disorganized, unprepared, unprofessional and dishonorable supervision, going right up to the President and VP.
Posted by: Danny | May 13, 2009 10:43:44 AM===
So you should be asking for the release of all the memos so you could change your wording from “seems” to something more definitive.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 10:45 am 10:45 am
Why Did it take so Long for Cheney to Come out of his cave? I mean we never Heard from the Man for 8 Years seems hes worried!
Posted by: Angie in Pa | May 13, 2009, 10:47 am 10:47 am
Axey: “I like her. Go ahead.”
I suppose you would. Her cutting expose’ on how the Hoot-Smalley act Roosevelt signed caused the Great Depression had my historian friend chuckling for days. So many errors piled up so quickly to fit into the Republican fantasy world.
“Those are his actual words. Look them up.”
I did look them up, and that is NOT a quote. It is an accurate paraphrase, but that is also NOT a quote. This is pretty basic English here, but it is improtant. I suppose you think “I invented the internet” is a quote too.
Posted by: jhw539 | May 13, 2009, 10:47 am 10:47 am
“If you make big bucks — or enjoy alcohol, cigarettes and Coke — the government might hit you up to pay for fixing the nation’s health care system.
“On Tuesday, the Senate Finance Committee peeked into vending machines and liquor stores, company payrolls and health savings accounts, looking for a mix of tax increases and spending cuts as a way to pay for a health overhaul — which could cost more than $1.5 trillion over 10 years.”
If you make less than $250,000…not one dime…
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 10:53 am 10:53 am
Glad we tortured ‘em; glad we got the info from ‘em; glad all those lives were saved; glad Nancy went along with it; and glad she’s been caught lying.
I’m loving the way this is playing out.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 10:55 am 10:55 am
Al Gore: “During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet.”
Posted by: Inconvenient Truth | May 13, 2009, 10:55 am 10:55 am
“I am so glad I am not a progressive liberal.”
I don’t know what being a “progressive liberal” has to do with being disillusioned that a President and VP betrayed everything our Nation represents and stands for. They tortured in your name too.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 10:56 am 10:56 am
“The Bush admin announced the LA plot was kaput in 2002.”
And in fact the first one was kaput. But just as they did after the first World Trade Center bombing failed, they decided to try it again. KSM gave it up. And that’s a good thing.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 10:56 am 10:56 am
Where oh Where is Bush he was Commander in Cheif Like Cheney said He signed Off On the Torture why is He not Joining Cheney on this Lets Clear My name and Legacy Media Tour?
Posted by: Angie in Pa | May 13, 2009, 10:56 am 10:56 am
“Al Gore hasn’t spoken for the Democrats since 2000.”
Jeez–I must have missed it when the Democrats disavowed this Gore pronouncement on Septeber 20, 2001:
“Resurfacing before a partisan crowd, former Vice President Al Gore declared tonight that ‘George W. Bush is my commander in chief’ and implored Democrats and Republicans alike to offer Mr. Bush their unwavering support.
“Members of the Iowa Democratic Party, gathered here for their annual Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner, leapt to their feet when Mr. Gore said the message he had heard from Iowans as he toured the state in the last two days was that people must unite.”
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 11:03 am 11:03 am
Chenney is a war criminal. He waged a war based on lies which has led to the death of more than 4,000 young Americans and about 700, 000 Iraqis.
He also did what the Nazis and the Japanese did. TORTURE!
Chenney must be tried for War Crimes.
Posted by: keith | May 13, 2009, 11:08 am 11:08 am
“In 2002, when Bush Junior was ramping up to his war against Saddam, Al Gore made a speech trying to slow down that war resolution, pointing out that pivoting from Osama to Saddam for no reason, initiating “pre-emptive” war, and blowing off our allies would undermine the war on terror.
Charles Krauthammer called Gore’s speech “a disgrace.” Michael Kelly, his fellow Washington Post columnist, called it “vile” and “contemptible.” Newt Gingrich said that the former vice president asserting that W. was making America less safe was “well outside the mark of an appropriate debate.”
“I think the president should be doing what he thinks is best as commander in chief,” Gingrich said flatly. Now, however, Gingrich backs D… Cheney when he asserts that President Obama has made America less safe.” (Dowd – NY Times Op-Ed)
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 11:09 am 11:09 am
One prisoner Abu Z was tortured 148 times and he lied 148 times. If torturing works, why would he be tortured that many times? This mean torture doesn`t work.
I constantly hear Chenney talk about how important information was obtained through torture. If a prisoner tells you 148 different stories what is the possibility that one of them will be close the real info even if the prisoner knew nothing? Neo Cons are really pathetic.
Posted by: keith | May 13, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am
whats with all the Blame on Cheney
GEORGE W BUSH WAS THE PRESIDENT
THE COMMANDER IN CHEIF
THE DECESION MAKER
The one who actually signed off
THEY ARE BOTH TOO BLAME
Where is Bush?
Posted by: Angie in Pa | May 13, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am
Obama’s people go very public about cherry-picked stuff they don’t like from the previous administration, and Cheney is supposed to stay mum? In their dreams…
=======================================
That old “Pandora’s box” thing comes to mind.
Posted by: Ms Trish | May 13, 2009, 11:24 am 11:24 am
angie…Yeah he’s, Chaney, worried DUH. He has every right to be worried, with the rest of us who have not forgotten 9/11, with Obama tearing apart our National Security apparatus. Want proof? Just wait until those photos come out, Obama and the ACLU just handed every terrorist a new recruiting poster and watch the protests and hate mongering to begin…again all in the name of political revenge. There’s your proof..Hope Obama is ready for what is surely to come.
Posted by: Parallex View | May 13, 2009, 11:26 am 11:26 am
===I don’t know what being a “progressive liberal” has to do with being disillusioned that a President and VP betrayed everything our Nation represents and stands for.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009 10:56:17 AM===
You answered your own question.
===They tortured in your name too.===
And you think I should be as appalled as you are that EITs were used? I’m not. And again, I’m glad I’m not a progressive liberal.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 11:29 am 11:29 am
I remember when the first pictures came out it was like Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and their Republican supporters all jumped off a cliff together.
That was a low point. Fear that my relatives and friends serving in Iraq would feel the outrage. They did the violence spiked up.
Now today Cheney is spinning. Over 4,200 troops died more if you add our allies in a war that should never have happened. They say over 300,000 veterans are suffering from PTSD who serviced in Iraq.
Now you hear stories of Cheney fighting for the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and thier supporters lecacy. With George W.Bush throwing around a baseball on opening day attempting to rehab himself.
This fourth of July we will have family and friends who served parading down main street many in wheel chairs. Tears are streaming down my face as I type this Tapper. No matter what we will continue to support out warriors. God speed Troops, Family and Friends in Iraq. You will be home soon.
Posted by: Yeil | May 13, 2009, 11:32 am 11:32 am
“Neo Cons are really pathetic.”
You have absolutely no clue what a Neocon is. Cheney is not one of them.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 11:33 am 11:33 am
“why would he be tortured that many times? This mean torture doesn`t work.”
Five different CIA directors from two political parties disagree with your conclusion. (But that doesn’t mean that your zany views aren’t entitled to the utmost respect.)
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 11:36 am 11:36 am
“Chenney is a war criminal. He waged a war based on lies which has led to the death of more than 4,000 young Americans and about 700, 000 Iraqis.”
(a) Neither Cheney nor anyone else is a war criminal until he has been charged with and convicted of a war crime.
(b) Vice Presidents do not wage wars.
(c) The actual number of dead Iraqis is 109,000. That pales in comparison to the number of German and Japanese civilians incinerated by FDR and Truman.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am
“Where is Bush?”
There is a very long, and very honorable, tradition in this country of presidents maintaining a dignified silence after they leave office until they write their memoirs, and in particular they do not criticize their successors. (When Bush was asked about something Obama had said or done, he said “he is entitled to my silence.”)
Of course, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton both violated this precept early and often,
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 11:42 am 11:42 am
“WASHINGTON (CNN) — A source close to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi now confirms that Pelosi was told in February 2003 by her intelligence aide, Michael Sheehy, that waterboarding was actually used on CIA detainee Abu Zubaydah.
“Source says Nancy Pelosi didn’t object about waterboard usage because she wasn’t personally briefed about it.
“This appears to contradict Pelosi’s account that she was never told waterboarding actually happened, only that the administration was considering using it.”
She’s lying. Everyone knows she’s lying. Her fellow Democrats have no clue as to what to do about her obvious lies.
I think the only thing to do is have a thorough airing of the whole matter, with all persons who were alleged to have been aware of the practices without objecting to them placed under oath and cross-examined. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | May 13, 2009, 11:46 am 11:46 am
all Cheney has to do now, is explain how & why he & Bush got their facts wrong and started a war by accident with bogus information….and ended up killing and wounding thousands..
amazing how the ‘rightists’ seem to overlook that bit of recent history
waiting to hear THAT explanation…… especially in light of Cheney’s 1994 interview where he spoke against invading Iraq.
Posted by: Truth & Justice | May 13, 2009, 11:51 am 11:51 am
re: Hyena
“Of course, the left-wingers are generally estranged from anyone whose life might actually be placed in increased danger by the publication of these pictures. For the most part, they have never fought, and know very few people who have.
You have Bush & Cheney to thank for putting our troops in harms way in Iraq.,,,,I’m sure you are in the military right?…. enjoying your generalizations about people you don’t know.
Posted by: TJ | May 13, 2009, 11:57 am 11:57 am
Axey – Do you live in America? Why would you choose to live here if you don’t believe in her Constitution and laws?
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 12:21 pm 12:21 pm
“seemingly launching a one-man campaign to fight for his legacy and — in his view — the safety of the nation.”
You give him far too much credit.
This is about his legacy.
Cheney has always put himself before country.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 12:26 pm 12:26 pm
“Cheney’s request to release certain CIA documents for use in his upcoming book.”
So releasing memos to the public is bad but getting memos for one’s book is good.
Yet again Cheney puts himself above country.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm
“(c) The actual number of dead Iraqis is 109,000. That pales in comparison to the number of German and Japanese civilians incinerated by FDR and Truman.”
So I guess we were all fools then for getting so upset over 3000 Americans being killed on 9/11.
Its so funny to see a right winger with zero principles try and create moral quandries for others.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 12:32 pm 12:32 pm
Hyena:
re: “I think the only thing to do is have a thorough airing of the whole matter, with all persons who were alleged to have been aware of the practices without objecting to them placed under oath and cross-examined. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.”
I’ll agree that everything needs to be released, but lets also include the people responsible for the decision to torture, ie; Bush & Cheney… not just those who might have known about it and did nothing.
Posted by: TJ | May 13, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm
re: “Courts had ruled in favor of releasing the photographs into public view”…
…”even though Bush administration officials argued that releasing the photographs would violate the Geneva Conventions, which protect prisoners of war and detained civilians “against insults and public curiosity”…”
LOL, if it wasn’t so tragic.
Once again, it’s the BUSH administration vs. America’s COURTS.
And how ironic that their excuse is:
We need to respect the Geneva Conventions.
Wow.
They think we’re stupid, don’t they?
That’s why they lose elections.
Posted by: Jan | May 13, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm
Sen. Chuck Schumer, latest Democrat hypocrite, said in a June 2004 Senate hearing:
“And I’d like to interject a note of balance here. There are times when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands of lives are at stake.
Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.
So it’s easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be used. But when you’re in the foxhole, it’s a very different deal.”
Posted by: Inconvenient Truth | May 13, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm
“And in fact the first one was kaput. But just as they did after the first World Trade Center bombing failed, they decided to try it again. KSM gave it up”
KSM was in custody by 2003.
Torture saving us from an impending plot story involves Keifer and its fiction.
I wonder if the reports that people were tortured to provide links between Iraq and Al Queda are true.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm
“Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.”
The “24″ scenario does not exist and torture does not work.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm
The actual number of dead Iraqis is 109,000. That pales in comparison to the number of German and Japanese civilians incinerated by FDR and Truman.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena
LOL, very Viet Nam era of you, using ‘body counts’ to justify your opinion…
Posted by: Geeeeez | May 13, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm
Obama has gone for Bush and Cheneys throat from the second he stepped foot into the office.
Obama and the dems have even (if that can be said after all he has done) gone overseas and vocalized such nasty insults that they should be censured for their unprofessional behavior.
Then they have the nerve to expect Cheney to sit quietly by while they frame his behavior as criminal.
Who are they kidding.
I always wished Bush had gotten out there and defended himself, it is my big disappointment in him, as he thought it would demean the office to get down in the mud with the dems.
But I could not be more grateful that Cheney is at least speaking up, and in a rational dignified manner, still unlike the rabid dems.
We also have the hypocrisy of the Obamedia, outraged that Cheney does not shut up and go away, when for years we had Jimmy Carter, Al Gore and Bill Clinton actually speaking in a manner to UNDERMINE BUSH.
They should be grateful that Cheney is sticking to the fights that Obama and the dems picked.
Wah wah wah, they hit me back.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat, defended Pelosi–and Bush.
“I think it’s a tempest in a teapot really to say: Well, Speaker Pelosi should have known all of this, she should have stopped this, she should have done this or done that,” she said.
“I don’t want to make an apology for anybody, but in 2002, it wasn’t 2006, 07, 08 or 09. It was right after 9/11, and there were in fact DISCUSSIONS ABOUT A SECOND WAVE OF ATTACKS.”
Posted by: Inconvenient Truth | May 13, 2009, 12:43 pm 12:43 pm
MNM
re: ‘I always wished Bush had gotten out there and defended himself,”
hard to defend the indefensible, which is why Cheney is having such a bad time trying to explain….
Posted by: No Mas | May 13, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm
“But I could not be more grateful that Cheney is at least speaking up, and in a rational dignified manner, still unlike the rabid dems.”
Cheney stated he would rather follow Limbaugh – who avoided Vietnam just like Cheney – than Powell a long time, widely admired Republican and 4-star general who spent his life serving his country and you have the gall to call dems “rabid”?
LMAO!
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 12:52 pm 12:52 pm
===Yet again Cheney puts himself above country.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009 12:30:26 PM===
Yet again, Obama puts himself above country. You don’t know what Cheney would have said about those memos. But we do know what Obama did.
Posted by: Axey | May 13, 2009, 12:55 pm 12:55 pm
“You don’t know what Cheney would have said about those memos.”
Its a memoir.
You think a guy who shot his friend in the face and had the friend apologize to him in public is going to look at his career with a critical eye?
The gullibility of the right wing is astounding.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm
Mr Cheyney…the misfits, negafits, freaks and the like are running the country…their mantra is anything normal (mainly white/Christian) is wrong…keep up the good fight …but you need to bring the silent majority with you
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 1:00 pm 1:00 pm
“How quickly you all forget Al Gore and “he lied to us, he betrayed our country, he played on our fears”.”
ROFLMAO!
You’re comparing Cheney doing legacy work with Gore talking about the lies that got us into the Iraq War?
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 1:02 pm 1:02 pm
recent history review for the ‘right’:
9/11 happened on Bush & Cheney’s watch, and they were warned about it
Iraq war was a mistake and had nothing to do with 9/11
torture is illegal
Bin Laden still free
Hurricane Katrina fiasco
all that amounts to, shall we say ‘Mission Accomplished’….
Posted by: Gadzooks | May 13, 2009, 1:08 pm 1:08 pm
Cheney stated he would rather follow Limbaugh – who avoided Vietnam just like Cheney – than Powell a long time, widely admired Republican and 4-star general who spent his life serving his country and you have the gall to call dems “rabid”?
LMAO!
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009 12:52:47 PM
——–
Well of course you misquote Cheney and that is no surprise.
He was asked who was the better republican and Cheney chose Rush because he was not aware that Colin Powell was still in the party.
Your twisted version of “following” someone is silly and typical.
You infer insults to Powell that were never spoken or intimated.
And yeah, Rush is a great republican. ALthough I am sure dem heads are spinning as they read this.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm
“…but you need to bring the silent majority with you”
The reason this majority is so silent is probably because they’re actually imaginary.
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm
“…but you need to bring the silent majority with you”
The reason this majority is so silent is probably because they’re actually imaginary.
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009 1:13:04 PM
———
No. It is likely because the dems have teams of paid attack dogs, like you, Ryan and Jhw, to name a few, who rabidly attack anyone who disagrees. (as reported in Politico)
I came to this site like a newbie and after multiple full frontal assaults on my posts I decided to fight fire with fire and use the same tactics as you hateful dems.
A lot of people don’t want the fight and give up, which is your intention. Look at Ryans’ charge of racism.
I however am mad an not going to take it anymore so I will use the same tactics and language that you dems relish so much.
Lastly, the media does not report accurately and objectively on the impact of the Obama/dem spending and other moves.
If Bush had seized the Boeing corp. sunk in 100 billion taxpayer dollars and then gave it Halliburton like a gift from the Boeing owners and the taxpayers the media may have had a thing or two to say.
They laugh at how clever Obama is when he does exactly the same thing with the auto companies and giving it all to his union supporters.
And so on and so on.
Thank goodness Cheney is not letting the media and Obama have their way as they slander him.
When you dems get rid of Carter Gore and Clinton you dems will have a leg to stand on with this whining about cheney.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 1:25 pm 1:25 pm
“It did not take long for the old canard or republican racism to come up.”
You’re right, phillysmart brought it up at 1:00:25 PM
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009, 1:26 pm 1:26 pm
“…..to watch the eruption of “controversy” today over the fact that Nancy Pelosi was briefed in 2002 on various aspects of the CIA’s interrogation program, as though (a) this is some sort of new revelation and (b) it has any bearing on whether there should be investigations and prosecutions into Bush crimes.
As many of us have long pointed out, the extent to which Democratic leaders in Congress were complicit in Bush lawbreaking — including torture — is a major issue that needs resolution, and is almost certainly a key reason why there have been no investigations thus far. There are real disputes still about what these Democrats were and were not told — how complete the briefings were, the extent to which they obfuscated rather than illuminated what the CIA was doing — though they were obviously told enough to have warranted further action on their part, to say the least.
But what’s the point of all of this? Secretly telling Nancy Pelosi that you’re committing crimes doesn’t mean that you have the right to do so. And the profound failures of the other institutions that are supposed to check executive lawbreaking during the Bush era — principally Congress and the “opposition party” — is a vital issue that demands serious examination. This dispute over what Pelosi (and Jay Rockefeller and others) knew highlights, rather than negates, the need for a meaningful investigation into what took place.
Posted by: Mr. Green says: | May 13, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm
This administration parallels the story of the revenge of the nerds…eventually normal people will run our country again…until then instaed of discussion of legitimate policy they will call you names when you disagree…classic childish behavior
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm
MNM “Well of course you misquote Cheney and that is no surprise.”
Did you see quotes around my statement? Sorry, I can’t “misquote” something I’m paraphrasing. The fact you’ll defend Cheney’s comments about Powell and Limbaugh is downright nauseating.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm
If Bush had seized the Boeing corp. sunk in 100 billion taxpayer dollars and then gave it Halliburton : by MNM
Bush & Cheney, ‘didn’t’ give ‘no bid’ unsupervised , unaccountable contracts to Halliburton?…. please….
and where did that 9 billion in cash go?
Posted by: Heeeezzey | May 13, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm
“Look at Ryans’ charge of racism.”
OK let’s.
phillysmart: If you’re still there please explain what you meant by white/Christians being ‘normal’. Does that imply that anyone who is not white or Christian is not normal?
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm
hey skip let me throw something at you…do you believe there is a normal…is homsexuality normal?…now don’t jump to the conclusion that I’m saying or discriminating against gay people because I’m not …but how do you define normal?
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm
phillysmart
somehow, ..I just don’t believe you when you say your a Democrat….
Posted by: Please | May 13, 2009, 1:39 pm 1:39 pm
“a campaign to discredit them, as racist republicans out of touch…they are a majority but they do not define normal…does that clarify things”
That’s it walk it back, you coward.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm
The fact you’ll defend Cheney’s comments about Powell and Limbaugh is downright nauseating.
——-
Please enlighten me and tell me what quote you are referring to?
He did not in any manner shape or form insult Colin Powell.
It is no secret that Powell left the party to support Obama.
Why on earth are you so insulted that Cheney felt Rush was a better republican,,it makes no sense.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 1:43 pm 1:43 pm
‘phillysmart’
re: “is homsexuality normal?
normal…
it is ‘normal’ for the folks who happen to be ‘gay’…
‘straight’ is ‘normal’ for folks who happen to be ‘straight’ ..
Posted by: yo | May 13, 2009, 1:44 pm 1:44 pm
Really…so being normal is a moving target…somethimg that is relative…ther goes the libs changing the emaning of words again look it up in the dictionary and see what normal means….forget abot religion …homosexuality wether its hard wired or not is a deviation from the norm…if its hardwired its a short circuit…it should be accepted and tolerated but not mainstreamed
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm
“When you dems get rid of Carter Gore and Clinton you dems will have a leg to stand on with this whining about cheney.”
When Cheney dies, the line to urinate on his grave may extend across the country.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 1:51 pm 1:51 pm
phillysmart Fair enough. That’s kind of what my question was about: giving you the benefit of the doubt. ‘Normal’ has more than one meaning like many words. Purely statistically homosexuals are not normal since most people are heterosexual, but it is possible that that could change someday! However all my gay and lesbian friends seem perfectly normal to me in that they function as people much like everybody else. They have all the same mortal strengths and weaknesses as anyone else I’ve ever met.
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm
Its amazing …the left controls all facets of government right now and they are still angry and hateful…dissenting points of view are accepted and encouraged in our society…calling names to demonize people is childish and just getting old
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm
I can see dems are trying to take us down the road of racist, bigot, homophobe, when of course they are really speaking about themselves.
I can see they are working hard to earn their check this week.
However the topic is the assault on Bush Cheney by Obama and the dems, and then their upset when Cheney speaks up to defend himself and correct the record.
I am thrilled to have his speak up and not let Obama continue this unprecedented assault on a former administration.
It is unhelpful, as we can all see now as they backtrack on publishing the photos. And only increases partisan fighting.
I thought Obama was supposed to transcend all the partisanship and instead he has been on full attack since taking office.
Even lying and claiming the Repubs are the party of no and no ideas, when they have offered alternatives at every turn from Tarp to the stimulus to the budget.
If Obama was not a rabid partisan he could simply change the policies he doesn’t like and not go on the attack at the same time.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 1:53 pm 1:53 pm
phillysmart
re: it should be accepted and tolerated but not mainstreamed
so, trying to get equal rights is ‘mainstreaming’?
Posted by: Broad Street Runner | May 13, 2009, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm
skip…you wee you made assumptions about me…I live in a city I have many gay freinds they are normal people in every way accept their sexuality…if homosexuality becomes the norm than it is the end of the human race…these people writing on hear are all politically correct …they don’y want to admit a truth when it doesn’t fit into their view….don’t know hoe we got onto the homosexuality thing but there was a woman that was crucuified called every name in the book because she stated a view which probably the majority of people believe …I don’t hear anybody calling them racist
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm
“ther goes the libs changing the emaning of words again look it up in the dictionary and see what normal means”
And you claim that you’ve been a Democrat for 30 years?
ROFLMAO!
The lesson AS ALWAYS! Right wingers lie.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm
phillysmart
re: so being normal is a moving target…somethimg that is relative..
it used to be ‘normal’ to have slaves..
in Germany during WW2, it used to be ‘normal’ to kill Jews..
so yes, ‘normal’ throughout history is a changing perception….
Posted by: Broad Street Runner | May 13, 2009, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm
I’m all for equal rights for gays…they just can’t get married…thats changing the definition of a word and long established institution…like most people we can create an institution which gives gay monogomous relationships the same rights as married couples….but the gay advocates want to make it about rights and thats not the issue…the issue is mainstreaming homosexuality
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm
if homosexuality becomes the norm than it is the end of the human race :: phillysmart
that statement is so patently bizarre it begs credulity ….
Posted by: Broad St. Runner | May 13, 2009, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm
Ryan C …calling me names are not going to faze me….not only have I been a democrat for 30 years I am a memeber of the party …but i am a dmocrat not a neocrat
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 2:02 pm 2:02 pm
It’s good that Obama agrees with Cheney and his advice to not release the detainee photos.
Posted by: Sigmonde | May 13, 2009, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm
the gay advocates want to make it about rights and thats not the issue…the issue is mainstreaming homosexuality: phillysmart
once again, I’ll ask you…
how does it advance your fear of ‘mainstreaming homosexuality’
Posted by: Braod St. Runner | May 13, 2009, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm
skip…you wee you made assumptions about me.
I didn’t make an absolute assumption. That’s why I took the time to ask you:
Do you think that non-white non-Christian people are not normal because there are numerically less of them here in the US or are you saying that they somehow do not function at a normal level?
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009, 2:06 pm 2:06 pm
“Why on earth are you so insulted that Cheney felt Rush was a better republican,,it makes no sense”.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009 1:43:52 PM
______________________
Why aren’t you?
Many Republicans voted Democrat this election just like many Democrats have voted Republican in previous elections, but that does not mean they “left” their perspective parties.
Powell is a 4 Star General; served as the US Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, Commander and Chief of the US Armed Forces and was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs dating back to Reagan. He has earned and won more National and International medals for his work as well as recognized globally for his Humanitarian work. He is a moderate Republican who was concerned about our violating the Geneva Conventions.
Cheney sold out this decorated, moderate Republican because he differed with him for a hate mongering, obnoxious blow-hard who got deferments to avoid fighting in Vietnam. You wonder why the GOP has a problem now.
Here’s your info from CBS news:
“Schieffer brought up recent banter about the Republican Party’s future: “Rush Limbaugh said the other day that the party would probably be better off if Colin Powell left and just became a Democrat. Colin Powell said Republicans would be better off if they didn’t have Rush Limbaugh out speaking for them. Where do you come down [on this]?”
“Well, if I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I’d go with Rush Limbaugh, I think,” Cheney replied. “I think my take on it was Colin had already left the party. I didn’t know he was still a Republican.”
“So you think that he’s not a Republican?”
“I just noted he endorsed the Democratic candidate for president this time, Barack Obama,” Cheney said. “I assumed that that is some indication of his loyalty and his interest.”
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm
There seems to be a lot of internal political maneuvers and wasted energy at a time when we should all be using any creative energy and political might to search for and consider strategic advance in the middle east situation. For those who are pushing for an exit strategy, have you considered an exit strategy for the enemy instead? I mean, if you’re a 20 year old in a group in a Taliban hide-out, and you start to wonder about the alignment of the movement with the will of God, is there any convenient way to advance those concerns and eventually jump ship? Is there any incentive to do so, or any way to increase communications with people in that mindset, without them incurring a downside risk to reflecting on the outcome of moderating their views?
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | May 13, 2009, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm
No skip…many black and minority classifications are normal…but the only onew being attacked today by the government and the obama administration is white christians many of which are part of mainstream society…for exampl I see christian beliefs ridiculed everyday in one way or another …but nobody will talk about muslim radicalism which is far more pervasive and worse than christian radicalism…and without a doubt poses a much greater threat to all americans…why do you think there is areluctance to recognize that fact or even mention the religious aspect of their radicalism?
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 2:37 pm 2:37 pm
Broadstreet runner…I love when you guys put words and make assumption …I have no fear fo mainstreaming homosexuality….its not mainstream and all the propoganda you throw out there will not make it mainstream…its a deviation from the norm…its not mainstream so why do you feel the need to mainstream it?
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 2:41 pm 2:41 pm
marklevenworth….good idea for intellectual thinking people…unfortunately these terrorist have very little education and are brainwashed…reasoning does not work
Posted by: phillysmart | May 13, 2009, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm
MNM
I think I’m going to have to go with Ryan on this one.
Posted by: Skip | May 13, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm
Phillysmart- It is very rare to meet a young man from anywhere who is well educated and capable of reason.
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | May 13, 2009, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm
phillysmart:
re: why do you feel the need to mainstream it?
I don’t even think about it in your terms…
you said: “they just can’t get married…thats changing the definition of a word and long established institution.”
I’m trying to figure out what it is your afraid of…
Posted by: Broad St. Runner | May 13, 2009, 3:28 pm 3:28 pm
phillysmart;
its a deviation from the norm
historically, being ‘black’ in America was ‘ a deviation from the norm’ for a long time…
feel the same way about that ?
Posted by: Broad St. Runner | May 13, 2009, 3:36 pm 3:36 pm
Well, if I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I’d go with Rush Limbaugh, I think,” Cheney replied. “I think my take on it was Colin had already left the party. I didn’t know he was still a Republican.”
“So you think that he’s not a Republican?”
“I just noted he endorsed the Democratic candidate for president this time, Barack Obama,” Cheney said. “I assumed that that is some indication of his loyalty and his interest.”
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009 2:16:42 PM
——-
You are not making your point at all. What part of this quote by Cheney makes you physically ill, as you stated it.
It is a matter of fact response to a simple question.
There is no insult of Powell.
What the heck are you talking about?
What part should I be upset about?
This is so silly I can’t even find something upsetting if I work at it.
.I don’t see that he said anything uncivil or insulting what so ever.
And let’s not muddy the subject by bringing in quotes from Rush because you can’t back up your claims of being nauseated by Cheney’s comment.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 3:38 pm 3:38 pm
phillysmart
re” mainstream society.
while we’re at it, why don’t you tell us what your
version of ‘mainstream society’ is and who belongs to it.
Posted by: Broad St. Runner | May 13, 2009, 3:41 pm 3:41 pm
It is good we have people giving an opposing opinion to Obama.
The US is all about everyone voicing their views and no one’s freedom of speech being hampered by a current administration and its allies in the media.
Posted by: Sally J | May 13, 2009, 3:44 pm 3:44 pm
MNM – Birds of a feather…Keep staunchly defending Cheney and Limbaugh. You can continue to do it grossly uninformed at my expense, but the Republican party is who pays and the fact you don’t care.. priceless.
Posted by: Paige | May 13, 2009, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm
MNM
re: “”I just noted he endorsed the Democratic candidate for president this time, Barack Obama,” Cheney said. “I assumed that that is some indication of his loyalty and his interest.”
Disagree with Bush & Cheney, and the republicans and your loyalty is called into question……
after all, being a loyal republican is much more important than being a decorated military man and multiple office holder in the Govt
Posted by: ??? | May 13, 2009, 3:50 pm 3:50 pm
Sally J
re: The US is all about everyone voicing their views and no one’s freedom of speech being hampered
unless of course you had an opposing opinion about Iraq and you were classified as a traitor and supporter of terrorists by Bush, Cheney & the republicans…
or..
you were going to peacefully make your voice heard outside the Republican Convention and were attacked pre-emptively by the Minn police
, arrested for ……. nothing… and released..
Posted by: USA | May 13, 2009, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm
“but the gay advocates want to make it about rights and thats not the issue…the issue is mainstreaming homosexuality”
So to prevent the mainstreaming of homnosexuality we must deny them rights?
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm
“Disagree with Bush & Cheney, and the republicans and your loyalty is called into question……
after all, being a loyal republican is much more important than being a decorated military man and multiple office holder in the Govt”
Party over country, its the right wing way.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 3:59 pm 3:59 pm
MNM
re: “”I just noted he endorsed the Democratic candidate for president this time, Barack Obama,” Cheney said. “I assumed that that is some indication of his loyalty and his interest.”
Disagree with Bush & Cheney, and the republicans and your loyalty is called into question……
after all, being a loyal republican is much more important than being a decorated military man and multiple office holder in the Govt
Posted by: ??? | May 13, 2009 3:50:54 PM
———
You seem to forget that although unsaid at this point in time Colin Powell also went on a media blitz speaking out against the party, including several gratuitous shots at Rush. Powell went on the attack, he did not simply endorse a dem candidate, which in and of itself does plainly speak to loyalties. Just as you thought it did when Lieberman endorsed McCain and was castigated repeatedly by the media and on dem blogs, but that must be different because you guys are dems and flagrant hypocrits. Cheney did not even castigate Powell.
In addition Powell forgets to acknowledge that all is prominence is courtesy of the republican presidents, including Bush who gave him the honor of being the first african-american secretary of state. You remember back when all you now whining insulted dems were referring to Powell and Rice as “uncle tom’s” and “house negroes”
But now you are insulted on his behalf because Cheney matter of factly notes that everything Powell now does “is an indication of his loyalty and intentions”
Any republican who didn’t think that was an indication of such would be considered so stupid he would have to become a dem.
A matter of fact observation of fact is not an insult or somehow huge question. It is an intelligent, non-insulting or condescending observation of fact.
You dems are so enraged over Cheney’s mere existence that you make something out of nothing.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm
There is school of thought that has been using ‘deviations from the norm’ since the turn of the century. I think we should all back off of the marriage issue (I’m on the not-gay side) and take a look at the fact that these may be the same people with the same interest in drawing a divide between naturally cooperating populations for the sake of establishing their normal curves. They continue to throw tactical divisions into the naturally cooperative spirit among the people of the United States and our desire to cooperate with the people of other nations.
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | May 13, 2009, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm
There is school of thought that has been using ‘deviations from the norm’ since the turn of the century. I think we should all back off of the marriage issue (I’m on the not-gay side) and take a look at the fact that these may be the same people with the same interest in drawing a divide between naturally cooperating populations for the sake of establishing their normal curves. They continue to throw tactical divisions into the naturally cooperative spirit among the people of the United States and our desire to cooperate with the people of other nations.
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | May 13, 2009 4:15:55 PM
———-
That is the most intelligent comment on this issue all day. It is very divisive to go down this road.
And on the gay thing, I say let them be married, it doesn’t take anything away from me or my marriage. (just an aside) Too bad Obama doesn’t support it though. That must be making his supporters unhappy.
Posted by: MNM | May 13, 2009, 4:29 pm 4:29 pm
“And on the gay thing, I say let them be married, it doesn’t take anything away from me or my marriage. (just an aside) Too bad Obama doesn’t support it though. That must be making his supporters unhappy.”
Good for you MNM.
And yes I find Obama’s position on gay marriage disappointing.
Posted by: Ryan C | May 13, 2009, 4:43 pm 4:43 pm
Cheney was never known for telling the truth. It’s amazing that a man who disliked going to war(Viet Nam= 5 deferments) on a personal basis is so willing to send others to die so that his friends at KBR could reap the benefits of big military contracts.
Posted by: leftyintexas | May 13, 2009, 5:11 pm 5:11 pm
Ryan C and MNM- AS much as ‘deviation’ and ‘abnormal’ are wicked and erroneous terms that play on the same kind of ignorance to sow division as the creation of conflict between past and present administrations, there really are differences and good reasons why we have long standing kinds of arrangments in our social institutions.
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | May 13, 2009, 5:40 pm 5:40 pm
Mr. Cheney is rightfully concerned he will soon be Big Bubba’s Prom Date at the Big House.
Posted by: Sammy | May 13, 2009, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm
and MNM- I tend to like your style of instigating debate. My serious concern is that many Americans of the same approach are encircled and herded by vultures and predators of a post WWII movement, very much foreign, very much more serious, with higher stakes and a true threat to us all.
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | May 13, 2009, 5:49 pm 5:49 pm
To use your opening word to this piece, Jake, “typically” incoming presidents do not spend every waking moment blaming their predecessors for every problem they encounter upon coming into office. And, yet for months now that is all Barack Obama has done.
And, yet, predictably you’re not inspired to provide any such post about this pathetic, and whiny behavior of the president’s, and yet you delight in excoriating the former Vice President for his efforts to defend the national security integrity of our country.
The collapse of even a semblance of objectivity on behalf of our mainstream media is a national tragedy, nothing less.
Posted by: Thank God for Karma | May 14, 2009, 12:03 am 12:03 am
Bush is keeping his silence because he knows that we are in for a rude awakening under the new administration.
Posted by: R. Pfau | May 14, 2009, 1:00 am 1:00 am
How come Mr. Cheney chose to ignore the detainees and guantanomo while he was in charge? Now, he has all the answers. Why didn’t he handle this when he had the chance instead of ignoring it and many other problems facing our nation..i.e., the economy, the banks, job losses, social security, health care,foreclosures? All of these things were apparent during his administration. Never heard a word of solution from him then. President Obama will address all of these problems and solve them one by one and he does not have to please Cheney in doing so. Cheney had his chance, now he should sit back, retire and keep his mouth shut.
Posted by: talmag | May 14, 2009, 11:00 am 11:00 am
lets look at rendition, approved by Eric Holder during the clinton administration, and see what the clinton administration did too… don’t just start and stop with Bush, go back further, lets start with Clinton…
and Cheney is doing a fabulous job! keep it up Cheney!
Posted by: jaj | May 14, 2009, 11:20 am 11:20 am
Please keep talking, Cheney. The Democrats can have no better advertisement for their cause. Fire away you draft dodging chicken hawk, please.
Posted by: DKNY | May 14, 2009, 11:22 am 11:22 am
Cheney IS the man! This five-time draft dodging coward shouldn’t even be allowed the opportunity to speak publicly by any media. I’d pay to have a few minutes alone in a room with this blowhard “patriot.”
Posted by: 3858Sandy | May 21, 2009, 7:50 am 7:50 am