He’s Back: Anti-Abortion Crusader Randall Terry Leads the Protests at Notre Dame

I do not think the problem for ANYONE is in obama speaking. The problem IS honoring the man who does not uphold the same values as those in the Catholic faith. He should not receive the degree.

The sight of Notre Dame security arressting anti-abortion protestors is sureal,but so is the idea that the univerdity would award an honorary degree to someone who opposed a state law protecting babies born alive after failed abortions..

Notre Dame should be ashamed and Fr. Jenkins should be fired.

I do not think the problem for ANYONE is in obama speaking. The problem IS honoring the man who does not uphold the same values as those in the Catholic faith. He should not receive the degree.
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So, Notre Dame should not honor the President of the United States? By your logic only Catholics that stringently support church doctrine (i.e., Catholics) should be invited. I think the alumni embarrass themselves by protesting. Abortion is legal as it should be. Church opposition to abortion as embodied by Operation Rescus is why many Catholics including myself leave the church. I think a choice was made as to whether Notre Dame is a church or university and they came down on the side (as they should) of university.

There are many persons in America that can be best suited to give that honor and speak to all graduates that has valued life most. There is something wrong here.

Jenkins wrote. “The university and I are unequivocally committed to the sanctity of human life and to its protection from conception to natural death.”—- Honoring this man publicly, who not only believes that human life is insignificant but is and will be enacting laws that lower the sanctity of human life is appalling. It sends totally the wrong message. You can show respect for this man but you are doing it in the WRONG way. This is a clear message from the church and those attending this university that we must follow the dictates of this man now because he believes differently. We are honoring a man that has done nothing to date, except voted “present” in the Senate, and has put America into jeopardy by the biggest spending spurge in history, gambling and putting our children and grandchildren at risk. Why can’t you wait until he has accomplish even one feat before bestowing such honor.

How you can encourage and promote RESPECT in all aspect of Human Nature? If LIFE itself, you did not respect FIRST. Education is a key on this issue, “RESPECT” you will earn only when you First RESPECT yourself (your ownlife), rape, incest, unwanted pregnancy etc. will not happen if you have valued respect on LIFE, your life, life of others and the life to come.

3000 women per day made the choice to abort due to an unwanted pregnancy, do you think that will stop once you make it illegal??? No! So what will you do next? What CAN you do? You will start making laws to suppress and oppress women. It will start with outlawing sex. Then outlawing revealing clothing. Then forced marraiges. Then forcing women to only associate with relatives. Then forcing women to only have children when married. Then locking up women for breaking these laws which many many will. All these laws will increase abortion more! At an equal pace, women will become more and more beholden to the whims and anger of men and they’ll have the law to back them up. We’ll reach the point where we’re just like Iran where women are second class citizens who can get locked up just for reporting something or taking their veil off in public. You have to understand, you CANT STOP ABORTION WITHOUT REPRESSING WOMEN. It’s just not possible! “Pro life” is in reality “pro taliban”.

LMAO JOe the nitwit Biden just gave away the location of the secret bunker where the vice president and his top aides stay in the event of a “man made disaster”..LMAO Good old joe..inviting an attack

The only people pushing it to the “forefront” of national consciousness are the media — always up for heightening controversy and invasions of privacy. This being an accurate characterization; it would seem FARRAH’S law could be extended to include protesters with in 5285 feet of ALL women. Alternatively ABC covered a story of a man who gave birth; I say, put the man through all the same procedures that man went through — right up to and including impregnation and delivering a baby. Give him NO CHOICE. I’ll bet his biological clock will stop ticking for the rest of the species.

Mike posted “Honoring this man publicly, who not only believes that human life is insignificant but is and will be enacting laws that lower the sanctity of human life is appalling. ”
Gee Mike, when did Obama ever say any of those thing? And, in case you didn’t know, Congress creates the laws, not Obama. He would not be the one enacting the law.
Gee Mike, that’s two lies of yours in a row. Do you EVER state facts?

Social policy should no be built on childish fantasies. Keep your fairy tales to yourselves

Enrico V. Duller posted “The greatest Hypocracy in history of the church, giving an honor to a man who is notworthy to have it.
Really? So, the Spanish Inquisition doesn’t strike you as Hypocracy. How about the Crusades. How about the Spanish explorers who created converts to the Church at the point of a sword. How about the indulgence, when people where told that God was a little short of money, so their loved ones wouldn’t go to Heaven until they pay the church some gold.
Obama getting an honor tops all of those? Maybe your HATRED tops them.

Got to love all the idiots that always bring up capital punishment as a way of trying to confuse the issue. I find it funny that pro-life is questioned because of it and pro-choice people aren’t. The people on death row did something to deserve being there. Why liberals think they deserve to live when liberals will kill babies by the millions?

If you don’t like abortions, don’t have one. Keep your hands off other women’s bodies and rights.

I know alot of Catholics and am married to one and find that this is the most hypocritical religion I have ever seen.My Catholic friends all practice birth control…. I have had three Catholic friends who got abortions. All had pre marital sex. My husbands cousin is on the BOARD OF NOTRE DAME and hes been divorced twice. It seems if you go to confession and say a couple of hail marys all is forgiven. Hypocrisy at its best. There are many non catholics that go to Notre Dame
I had an adulterous relationship with a married Catholic man. (I dont profess it was anything honorable to have an affair. He used to go to early Mass so he could call me while his wife and kids went to Mass……. and now the Catholics are up in arms.
I am a middled aged woman and pro choice . I will fight to keep Roe vs Wade alive.

Abortion is legal in the United States. Randall Terry needs to go crawl back under the rock he slithered out from under. As for the honorary degree, please… it is nothing of substance.

CAW, you libs are all messed up. How much has religion championed life throughout history? Alot. Yes there were wars, but wars are fought in conquest and defence, to take over ones life and the other is in defence of it. Is is murder to defend innocent life or is it murder to take an innocent life? Which is it? There is a difference in war, bloodshed and death but you libs like to package everything and put it under one definition and force everyone to follow it.

1MANA55 posted “There is a difference in war, bloodshed and death but you libs like to package everything and put it under one definition and force everyone to follow it.”
Like YOU like to package people as LIBERALS?
The Crusades, they were about what again?
Our current “war on terror”, what has our government told us over and over again? “The terrorist want kill everyone who isn’t a Muslim”
Why did Bin Laden have jets fly into those buildings? Oh yes, God told him to.
Why did Bush have us invade Iraq? Oh yes, God told him to.
You were saying?

WISDOM posted “Premier promoter of what?!!!! ABC wrote that headline on their home page. Is that the position of ABC News?”
WISDOM , they put that in quotes, therefore it must be something Randall Terry said.

Catholics are not Christians.

I have increasing faith that in the resurrection and the world to come, the Lord will raise us up in new life and the evils of this world will be washed away. I have a long list of evils that I hope are on that list. Abortion, many churches, protestors, and most commencement speeches in descending order.

Bush spoke there and was for the death penalty and no big deal
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That’s true. But Bush had his share of protesters over the years, and the protests were covered by the news.

Thanks for not listening and making this inflammatory, worked-over issue the “top story”, ABC. Doesn’t anyone else recognize that those who are working so hard to keep the media focus on abortion and gay marriage are doing so as a political distraction to keep those who want to focus on our real problems from getting anything done? These are just being used by the same people who wish to obstruct progress on, for example, alternate energy and global climate change solutions, our outrageously misguided healthcare system, our truly serious and deeply entrenched economic and job loss problems and immigration reform. Those who know dealing with these issues will mean a negative change to the money flow they currently enjoy want very much to keep the conversation centered around no-win theological arguments instead. You can bet they are paying huge money to a lot of politicians, paid protesters and media folk to ensure that happens. They know that abortion and gay marriage are subjects which will never find resolution, but that they work very well to distract and divide us.
Posted by:
iamwomaninfl 10:23 AM (didn’t feel like rewriting my opinion just because ABC posts a new article about this every couple of hours.)

Sam. Yet again spoken like a true. Twist ones words against them. I beleive in the right to defend innocent life by those who desire to murder them.

Republicans (ala George Bush) cut off funding for condoms and birth control, but when poor women get pregnant for the 13th time, and can’t even afford to feed themselves, no less the 12 other kids they have…then it’s okay to force them to have 13, then the Repbulican dogma says, we don’t want social programs….you have to stand on your own two feet. In my opinion, the Republican dogma is a lose-lose proposition, and Republicans are the main contributors to why women have abortions. So perhaps, lets look at a solution pre-preganancy, and let go of the religious dogma. YOU GUYS ARE A HUGE PART OF THE PROBLEM, work on that first.

Sam. Like iI said. Yet again spoken like a true liberal. Twist ones words against them. I beleive in the right to defend innocent life by those who desire to murder them.

One of the most absurd aberrations of the major world religions is the dogmatic concept that man (yes man) not woman, suddenly appeared on this Earth, as if spontaneously generated by the will of God, with no ties whatsoever to its surroundings. All major world religions, which have a lot to say on law and order are male dominated and ban women from reaching a significant position of leadership within these institutions. Positions where they could voice their opinions and concerns forcefully and I mean this in the best of ways. Therefore, one major source of our dysfunctional behavior is brooded within the family because it is a relationship not based on equality but on the fact that women, the same as Mother Nature are here to serve men. All major decisions taken by religious men regarding, for example, marriages, the right to work or to be educated, reproduction rights, the bans of abortions, use of contraceptives, or even how we should dress, end up, eventually, making life more difficult for women. Therefore, I can venture to say that half of the world population, women, live in one form or another of slavery, thus, they have ample reasons to feel frustrated and resentful which in turn begets resentful and frustrated children and thus the actual state of the world. If you are a man and want to be surprised ask the women in your life if they ever had an abortion, then prepare yourself for hearing stories that will make your hair stand on its end. I tell the men of the world enough! get out of the way, stop imposing your will on women and listen, listen hard what women have to say about abortion.

Fact: Abortion is thankfully legal. Fact: Notre Dame invited the President of the United States to speak-so that is what Barack Obama is gracefully doing. You extremesist should reflect back on the thousands of lives lost due to Bush/Cheney policies in an undeclared war built on lies; or deaths due to too many guns in our society due to lack of control and too much power of the NRA.
Abortion should be legal and should be a personal decision between a woman and her doctor-her clergy-and whomever else she seeks guidance.It is no one else’s business. Fund education on birth control and abstinence instead of rioting with your gross signs.

Emilio. Then who will stay and defend innocent children since it seems they have no voice.

Barbara, when I have no right to have a gun to defend myself from a murderous gangster, can I file a wrongful death suit against those who called for gun control?

What the heck is the “honorary degree” all about? Who came up with that?

I suspect these people support the “crusade” (Bush’s word) in Iraq

I feel about the same about Obama getting an honorary degree from Notre Dame as I did when Bill Clinton walked on the aircraft carrier Enterprise with a leather flight jacket in 1992. You could see the contempt on the pilot’s faces as they had to stand at attention. Of course, Clinton didn’t have a clue.

“as I did when Bill Clinton walked on the aircraft carrier Enterprise with a leather flight jacket in 1992.” Funny, I had plenty of contempt for “flyboy” (or should that be “crashboy” Bush pretending to be a pilot and announcing that Iraq was done.

Republican logic
1. All babies must be born even to parents who don’t love them or are not willing or able to take care of them.
2. Those children born to parents who don’t love them or are not willing or able to take care of them MUST STARVE.

Like it or not, abortion is legal in the United States. Randall Terry needs to go crawl back under the rock he slithered out from under. Yes, he and all Americans have the right to free speech, but I doubt his candor. He is nothing more than a grandstander seeking attention, much as a small child does.

I’m curious how the pro-lifers feel about all the embryos (ie., potentially viable children) that are artificially created for artificial insemination, then discarded and destroyed as soon as there is a successful pregnancy and birth. What say you?

“Abortion is an intrinsic evil. It is a higher crime than any other crime that we have on the face of the earth.”
-Terry
…So, a man who rapes, tortures, murders a 5 year-old girl, and buries her in a ditch wrapped in the same blanket he found her with is guilty of a lesser crime?
Mr. Randall is a moron, an absolute moron, and I’m sorry, but the only fools who would agee with Terry’s logic are those who, in profound irony, lack any ability to reason about ethics.

If a president could simply ignore the law and unilaterally make abortion illegal, then Bush would have done it, after all, he was on a “crusade” you know.

Brent- why did you address that comment to me?

roger king:” Pro-Life says no abortions unless the purpose is to save the mother’s life.”
This is not true – pro-life makes no exceptions for the life of the mother. Recently a Catholic archbishop said the abortion of twins carried by a 9-year-old girl who allegedly was raped by her stepfather means excommunication for the girl’s mother and her doctors. Carrying the twins to term would have carried a great risk of death for the girl, but that did not excuse the crime of abortion.

Only 22-23% of the ‘pro-life’ people area against abortion in all instances. That leaves a big middle ground of people who are all over the map on the matter.
I was firmly against the invasion of Iraq but felt that no one should intrude upon the privacy of the soldiers who fought there. Terry is like the anti-wat protesters who disrupted the funerals of soldiers killed in combat. In other words, he has a screw loose. And he is forgetting tthat the major killing of unborn babies has taken place under Republican presidents. So, where was he then??

Sue (1:00 p.m.)–you mistakenly paint all Republicans w/the same brush. So many of us are Pro-Its None Of Your Business (read Roe vs. Wade) and understand there is no Yes/No answer for an experience that is NEVER exactly the same for any two human beings. The subject is too volatile and variable for a thinking person to be one way or the other 100% of the time–especially when a face is put on what, in a lot of cases, is a tragic decision no one wants to have to make.

Wow, some of these comments are crazy. “No one cares about what Terry says….” Umm, hello, this wouldn’t be news if no one cared. Actually, about 50% of this country cares. Hello, that’s why it is an issue!!!! The reason abortion is the “most evil” act on earth is because it is killing completely innocent lives. Thousands a day. Murdering an innocent 5 year old child is also a horribl evil but see, that’s already illegal in this country. Abortion isn’t. Through abortion, we deny the existence of life – the life that God helped to create. “Support the president?” Well, not on the issues of morals, especially this one! He is dead wrong. Get a clue people.

“If a president could simply ignore the law and unilaterally make abortion illegal, then Bush would have done it, after all, he was on a “crusade” you know.”..Bush could have had a ban on abortion introduced as a bill and it would have been defeated-but he would have shown his colors. As it was, he was not for overturning Roe Wade and said exactly that. Moreover, Laura was against any effort to overturn Roe and said exactly that during an interview before the 2000 elections. Not one republican president had the courage to have a ban introduced and in fact, we’ve had no change under either form of administration. So, Obama is not the leading ‘baby killer’ since he has been in office only a few months. Reagan is.

LongT posted “OK, “crash boy” and “dodge boy”.”
LOL. If McCain would have won the presidency, he would be crash,crash,crash,crash,crash boy.

cs posted “Through abortion, we deny the existence of life – the life that God helped to create.”
You do know that over half the fertilized eggs are lost without attaching to the walls of the uterus. Seems to be quite a design flaw there. I wonder why the pro-lifers don’t demand more research to prevent these deaths.

StAugustine0419,
If you took all of the energy spent by pro “choice” people instead of putting that into supported the death and disregard of baby rights, and instead put that into supporting mothers who have pregnancies that are difficult – there would be no illegal abortions because they would have other options.

StAugustine0419 posted “One thing that has always puzzled me about the whole abortion debate, is that by making abortion illegal, wouldn’t you end up killing not only a baby, but also the mother? ”
I’ve always wondered why the religious people are against it at all. A newly developing fetus is not a fully born child.

Reed- regarding
“I’ve always wondered why the religious people are against it at all. A newly developing fetus is not a fully born child.”
I’ve never understood your logic at all, and it has nothing to do with religion.
An infant is not a fully developed human, but most people see that it deserves rights – that you can’t just go up and kill it because you don’t WANT to be responsible for it.
Same with a 5 year old, or 10 year old, or 90 year old..
but someone just because it is not out of a mothers body, somehow it is logically to say it’s not a life??

Eeeeh? (I say with total unbelievable astonishment).
dk – I don’t disagree.
Reed – I cannot follow what you are saying at all.

These protests should occur. Catholics should be prolife if they follow church doctrine.

Skip,
Regarding:
“Spiritually you may make an argument like this but legally you’re going to run into tremendous difficulties in defining a ‘someone’ that hasn’t been born. It’s kind of fundamental.”
Laws are created by people based one what is right or wrong.
I don’t really care how easy or hard it is – clearly just because a baby is inside a body it’s still it’s own developing entity.
If the law is written otherwise than the law is wrong and needs revised.

Well, Reed, what are you saying?

From the RNC WEB site on Republican Beliefs:
“I BELIEVE the strength of our nation lies with the individual and that each person’s dignity, freedom, ability and responsibility must be honored.”
EXCEPT when that person is a woman, she is pregnant and possibly considering her options for the pregnancy then Republicans feel a need to take over the woman’s life. Republicans don’t believe what happens “next” should be private or between a woman, her doctor, her family and her God. Hypocritical.

Ms G-
Regarding:
“EXCEPT when that person is a woman, she is pregnant and possibly considering her options for the pregnancy then Republicans feel a need to take over the woman’s life. Republicans don’t believe what happens “next” should be private or between a woman, her doctor, her family and her God. Hypocritical.”
It just being about HER options ended when she choose to have sex – now it’s THEM.
The fetus is a developing human, just like an infant is a developing human, and by CHOOSING to have sex you CHOOSE to give it rights of it’s own.
I’m not saying that responsibility is easy, or fun, or you shouldn’t be provided any aid from society etc – but it’s no longer about just you and YOUR rights anymore.
And until you can step out of that selfish shell you can not see the truth.

If you only listen to feminists and other woman haters, including eugenics scientists, you will think it is a cluster of cells. You will think that it is a choice. You will believe it is better to deny what biology has given your body; the ability to bring about progeny – life.
But, if you have ever been pregnant and delivered a baby yourself or have seen a baby born, you know that it is a baby.
Why is it the Democrats want to legislate every aspect of our lives except the bedroom? I’d gladly let them into my bedroom if they would get out of the rest of my life and stop finding rediculous ways to take more of my money in taxes. Cap and Trade, Soda Pop taxes… etc.

Please stop calling the movement Pro- Life. They aren’t Pro-Life, they are anti-abortion or Pro-human-birth. But after the baby is born, they do not care at all. If they cared about life they would be doing something positive, not simply being against something. That’s easy. Solving the unwanted/homeless teenager problem is hard. There are at least 4 US children killed daily in more horrible, long-suffering ways, sometimes suffering for years, or when they live, sometimes suffering for life. Where were the Pro-Lifers when children and teenagers are crying alone in the dark? When Nebraska instituted a “Safe Haven Law” said no prosecution for abandoning children at hospitals, they had to quickly change the law to exclude all but babies, because they couldn’t cope with the unwanted kids. Call yourself Pro-Life? Then open a Safe Haven House for abused, neglected children and teenagers in every community. Adopt EVERY Teenager who is up for adoption. Close the Vatican and have the Pope and staff move to a third-world village and let him drink out of the same poopy mud puddle those children are drinking from. Then I will consider that you are sincere about being Pro-Life.

There are over half a million children in foster care/orphanages in the US.
How many of you steadfast “pro-lifers” are also foster parents?

but that doesn’t mean that the other 95% of the cases that it should be legal to disregard the rights of another living entity or that just because you are a women you have 100% the right to disregard the life on another that you choose to create through sex.———what the millions of animals that we slaughter? your god created them also. do they have a right to live. could you equate the intelligence with that of a fetus?

hmmm,
You should really considering re-reading my post that you quoted since i’ve said am I NOT a christain and my pro-life stance has nothing to do with God, it has to do with respecting the rights of other lives.
And while I don’t really have the need to bring vegetarianism into it – since you mentioned the eating of animals, no you don’t have a right to eat animals either which is why I am also a vegetarian.
So basically both of your points fall flat – maybe try another point to rationalize your wants to kill children now?

Willem, I guess you could say the declaration of independence could be the basis of my philosophy:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ”
Although I would probably write it a little different, to include all entities – the basic idea is the same.
I created an entity, through my choice to have sex – that entity is it’s own person (or developing person). It has it’s own unalienable Rights – that doesn’t disappear because you just don’t want to deal with the responsibility of your actions.
I recognize motherhood is an unfair burden on females – so society should provide the aid that is needed.
But don’t tell me that the child has no rights and the mother has the only choice, that is just illogical beyond belief.

Why do all of Obama’s speeches sound exactly the same?
He says the same BS in every speech.
But at least at Notre Dame he did leave out the apologies for how shameful America has been.
I hope the graduates are inspired.
It will be years before they can see through Obama.

Skip,
You really obsessed with how the law is currently written as if it is something in stone.
Viewing a human being as only post birth is not a logical position, but has been adopted because it is convenient not right.
As I have stated, if the law is written that way, the law is wrong.
The constitution is considered a living document, drafted based on the will of the people, and as such I intend to change it so the laws are morally correct, not just easy or convenient.

===Where in the Constitution do you find that medieval view on women and female sexuality?
Posted by: Willem van Oranje | May 17, 2009 3:17:38 PM===
Probably the same place you find a woman’s right to abort a baby. People see all sorts of things that aren’t there.

Some of us are old enough to remember the 50′s and 60′s back alley abortions..or at least, read about them.. outlawing abortion doesn’t prevent it.. I would say in this century.. you probably couldn’t even slow it down..due to mobility of citizens and newer methods of ending pregnancies.

So skip, according to your logic anything attached to an Umbilical cord, regardless if it has an independent body developing brain etc – doesn’t have any rights.
So after 9 months of pregnancy, when the child is born, I should be able to kill it as long as it is still attached to the mother?

Doesn’t it seem odd that there are so many abortions and on the other hand so many fertility clinics and adoptions of foreign babies..?? What does this say..and also.. all of these abortions when there would seem to be ample access to contraceptives.

Just Curious asked a question I see no response to.
Pro-lifers prove yourselves when you comment, and tell us how many children you have fostered or adopted. THAT is the true measure of one who is committed to these lives. Otherwise you’re just pounding your chests and whooping, trying to control others for your own amusement, or to make up for a lack of control in your own lives.
I have adopted. And I respect CHOICE. I’m very glad the woman who gave birth to my daughter chose to have her.

==And I respect CHOICE.==
I hate that term, pro-choice, don’t you? It really isn’t pro-choice, it is pro-abortion. Because if someone were truly pro-choice, they would want the government out of their lives completely, not just a woman’s womb. Something to think about, no?

There always were abortions and there always will be abortions — That it ever became part of politics — that’s the problem. That the likes of our lovely politicians should decide something this personal for a women is insane.

===If only the pro-lifers were as pro-life outside the womb – our world would be a much better place.
Posted by: Ms. G | May 17, 2009 5:13:38 PM===
And if only the pro-choicers were as pro-choice outside the womb – our world would be a much better place.

Do you really feel morally superior to Mr. Terry because he is fighting for a belief he has?
*****************************************************
I wasn’t wishing him dead. I was venting with some humor and you know it. I don’t personally know Mr. Terrry so I don’t really know if I’m morally superior to him or not. I’m definitely more knowledgeable about the issue as a woman than he could ever be.

I knew it was the “screaming” and “in your face, make you believe as I do”, extremist Terry that started this with an agenda. Terry make sure you scream as loud about children born in the richest country on Earth without Healthcare and proper schools and nutrition. SCREAM TERRY that being born is just not enough to live without the bare neccessities of Life.

Axey- just an FYI, Palin has specifically said she thinks kids should be taught about birth control in school and at home.
The abstinence-only charge against her was spread by many media outlets who never actually bothered to report the truth. Shocking, I know.

MayBee – So…Bristol lied during her interview on Fox?
Palin, 18, also said in the interview – her first since the teen made headlines last summer during Sarah Palin’s GOP vice-presidential campaign – that her mother’s view of abstinence, especially in regard to teenagers, is “not realistic at all.”

===Palin, 18, also said in the interview – her first since the teen made headlines last summer during Sarah Palin’s GOP vice-presidential campaign – that her mother’s view of abstinence, especially in regard to teenagers, is “not realistic at all.”
Posted by: Ms. G | May 17, 2009 5:43:44 PM===
So your objection to Palin is she preached to her own daughter? You were going to show me where Palin preached abstinence, which I assumed was outside of her own home. You can’t, because she didn’t.

===Axey- just an FYI, Palin has specifically said she thinks kids should be taught about birth control in school and at home.===
I know. Her daughter and her daughter’s boyfriend both had sex education classes at school. Their sex education teacher was interviewed. So much for the left’s talking point.

Once a woman has an abortion, she becomes a Democrat for life (an ironic pun). That is why the Democrats want women to keep getting abortions.
They tell young women that they are just aborting cells and not a baby. Later, the women realize what has happened but cannot change what they have done to their own child. There is an enormous amount of shame and self-hatred that follows.
It is a shrewd and sinister way for Democrats to get a woman’s vote, through guilt and the fear of being called a hypocrite.

Why is Palin part of this discussion? This is about Obama’s views.
I’m pro-choice and support the Roe v. Wade ruling, which dealt with first-trimester abortion.
However, Obama supports abortion all the way to birth (late-term and partial-birth). Gallup polls have shown that at least 70% of Americans do not support partial-birth abortions. Obama does.
So Obama is out of sync with not only pro-life Americans, but also a sizeable number of pro-choice Americans. There is nothing “moderate” about his position. It is radical compared to the population at large.

Axey:”It can’t exist unto itself after it is born either.”
That has nothing to do with the basic argument – after it is born, the specific woman is not FORCED to provide for it. Society can take responsibility. A reasonable example is if a young child will DIE if you do not donate bone marrow to him, can society FORCE you to donate (at significant pain and some risk of your own health)?

=== didn’t read through all your response posts — have you adopted?
Posted by: Eyes Open | May 17, 2009 6:02:12 PM===
No. Haven’t served in the military, either. Strawman out of the way now?

===That has nothing to do with the basic argument – after it is born, the specific woman is not FORCED to provide for it. ===
You are making an assumption that I am “pro-life”. I’m not. Killing is sometimes necessary.

Axey:”===That has nothing to do with the basic argument – after it is born, the specific woman is not FORCED to provide for it. ===
You are making an assumption that I am “pro-life”. I’m not. Killing is sometimes necessary.”
That assumption is not relevant to my point. I was refuting your attempt to equate the needs of a fetus with the needs of a born child; they are not equivalent in fundamental and important ways. There are strong arguments against abortion, none of them use that flimsy rationale.
And part of what Obama’s speech was about was stripping away the stupid invalid strawmen on both sides and acknowledging where the fundamental disagreement lies.

The Notre Dame grads were drunk on Kool-aid today–chanting Yes We Can.
Wait until they wake up and realize Obama is going to put a cap on their aspirations–Obama will decide how much they can earn.
Middle class? He will tax virtually everything they need to survive.
Best for the grads to stay poor and let BO take care of them.
Today’s graduates will have to pay off Obama’s massive spending addiction–and their children will pay too.

Congratulations to the Notre Dame graduates.
Especially the grads that held a separate ceremony protesting Obama getting an honorary degree.
It takes a lot of guts to stand by your convictions when the majority doesn’t agree with you.

Obama could have repeated his line about a baby’s rights being above his paygrade
The Notre Dame Obots still would have cheered.

Ah, I see, “Axey,” you simply like to snap people. Or try to. One of those people that others walk away from in groups, because you’re just full of… answers… and so much fun.
Walking away.

===Ah, I see, “Axey,” you simply like to snap people.===
I snapped you? You are easily snapped, I guess. If you can’t defend your position better than you have, asking people if they have adopted and if not they should not enter the discussion, then you need to walk away.

Axey:” If you can’t defend your position better than you have, ”
I think his point was that you are here merely to argue. You seem to take pride in pointing out that you do not hold the position that you quite clearly have been advancing. Instead, you are merely arguing select points of it for the fun of creating noise.

===I think his point was that you are here merely to argue. You seem to take pride in pointing out that you do not hold the position that you quite clearly have been advancing. Instead, you are merely arguing select points of it for the fun of creating noise.
Posted by: jhw539 | May 17, 2009 8:45:57 PM===
I have only pointed out things that were inaccurate. If those seem like select points, then maybe the person spreading inaccurate talking points should work on their noise.
I made my position very clear early on. The government needs to stay out of my life, not just my womb. You see a problem with that position?

“I made my position very clear early on.”
It apparently wasn’t very clear to several of us.

===Skip, jhw539, thank you.===
Walking back in?

What abortion common ground is Obama talking about?
The science of embryology tells us that human beings develop rapidly after fertilization of the egg. In fact, since the heart of the fetus begins to beat by 24 days, virtually all abortions (other than “emergency contraception”) stop a beating heart. In fact, since most abortion occur between 4-6 weeks, they also destroy a functioning brain.
Even modern embryology textbooks agree that human life begins at conception. Since abortion ends human life, one must ask the question whether abortion is justifiable homicide or murder. So which is the common ground for the murdered child in his mother’s womb?

I have only met a handful of women who bragged about their abortions. Almost every woman told me it was something she HAD to do, not something she WANTED to do.
So where was her so-called CHOICE? It was non-existent.
As for punishing women for having had abortions, they are punished by their memory of their action, the regret, the sadness.
We as a society should offer a better way to the mother with an unexpected pregnancy. We as individuals should be more responsible for what we do and the consequences of our actions.
Each of us carries the burden of being in a nation that has killed its posterity.

Hello Ms. G,
Not sure if you will be checking back since it’s much later than your original post but I decided to respond to your points:
“I chose the term “reckless” carefully. I know many who have gotten pregnant and were using every precaution.”
Well I still think you are responsible to protect a child’s right to life even if you take every “precaution”.
See the thing is like anyone I like sex, and have it, but I have accepted long ago that if safe sex fails and I choose to risk pregnancy by having sex, I am responsible for the consequence in the form of raising that child or at least making sure that child will be cared for.
What I don’t understand is why you feel that people should have the right to say “opps.. didn’t want to have it so I wont” after the fact, when they choose to risk it by having sex.
“For someone who claims not to be “christian” you carry quite a sword of judgement.”
If you walked over to a Nazi that was advocated the extermination of Jewish citizens, would you have judgment and would you express it?
I don’t judge just to judge but because I think the truth needs to be said, to protect children that have rights, that some people are advocating don’t have them.
So yeah you see no crime in saying unborn children have no rights to be protected and I do – your point?
“Someone posted there are over 500,000 kids in foster care. Do you work with any of these kids?”
I do good for needy kids in my life but i’m not sure what the point would be even if I didn’t. Your saying I don’t have a right to advocate that unborn children have rights unless I meet your criteria for other “good works”.. Sorry I have a right as a citizen to speak up and advocate whatever issue I choose.
Lastly about all the “far right” talk – I never said I was a republican so that seems to be another assumption your making there.
If you want my opinions the issues you mentioned you can have them though:
Gay couples should be able to marry and adopt as they please.
Gun rights should be protected as it is a core citizens right to protect against government corruption as given by the constitution.
The government should be providing support for mothers, and should also not be legalizing the removal of the rights of unborn children just because it pleases the mother.
Viagra shouldn’t be covered by health insurance, but then again neither should birth control. FYI I am for universal health care but don’t really think sex is something society should pay for.
Pro lifers say no to stem cells because it depends on abortion – and no I don’t think medical advancements warrant violation of the rights of an unborn child anymore than I think I should be able to experiment on YOU to solve some medical issue I might be having.
I reject your notion that I have to NOT care about the rights of a unborn child to CARE about other issues.

Correction on my last post.. “Me being pro-life” that is, although that should be pretty self explanatory at this point.

If only the pro-lifers were as pro-life outside the womb – our world would be a much better place.
Posted by: Ms. G
Well said Ms. G ……………. Bravo
I won’t bother posting all the biblical commentary on killing children, even one’s own.

Why didn’t Bush do anything for you anti-abortion supporters in the 8 years. Did everyone see the support the President received from the students and the invited guests for nearly all parts of his speech. I think there are many millions out there supporting the President on the approach he is taking on every issue, small and major.

Also receiving honorary degrees this year:
Margaret Bent
Alfred C. DeCrane Jr.
Cardinal Walter Kasper
Helen Lieberman
Sydney Pollack
Helen R. Quinn
Diarmuid F. O’Scannlain
William P. Sexton
Patrick Toole
Cicely Tyson
Just wondering if anyone knows what their position is on abortion? If they support abortion should they be not be honored? Maybe the college should have all those who they intend to “honor” fill out a questionairre so they can pass a litmus test. To not honor the president United States for supporting the laws of the country he leads (abortion is legal) is ridiculous.

Obama spoke with honesty. The people on the two sides of this argument will never agree. The very best thing we can do is work together to make sure there are as few women as possible in need of an abortion.
It is highly hypocritical to denounce a poor woman for having an abortion, and then complain when the poor get assistance to feed their family. Just as it is wrong to think minimum wage is okay and to not support a living wage law. The honest truth is all forms of birth control fail 2-3% of the time. That is a lot of unplanned pregnancies. And financially there are a lot of folks who simply can’t afford another child. The women I know who got an abortion were married, had two or three kids already and knew they had reached their financial,time and emotional limit for their family. One married woman was a stay at home mom with two young children and also cared for her live-in elderly parents. This is not a decision that the government should make for people. It is a very personal choice. Our country is a nation of laws that is not supposed to mix religion into those laws.
As a married mom of three, I can honestly say I couldn’t have handled more kids and done a good job of it, as well as the financial difficulties another child would have added. Everyone is different, some could be a good parent to none, or two or eight.That is another part of why this is a personal decision.

Terry solicited donations by declaring on his website that “The purveyors of abortion on demand have stripped Randall Terry of everything he owned,” but failed to disclose that the money would be used to pay for his new $432,000 house.
” World noted that the same month he paid the deposit on his new home, a court ruled that Terry, who divorced his first wife and has remarried, “was not paying a fair share of child support.”

Hello Lydia,
I agree with you that it’s wrong to denounce a poor person for having an abortion but not be willing to provide them aid if needed.
Our country is way behind in other industrial countries in providing social services for our citizens – in health care, child care etc.
We spend tons of money on wars so we can be on “top” instead of helping our citizens survive and thrive.
But that is were our agreement ends.
The problem with the “pro choice” side is that it ignores the rights of another living entity (the unborn child). The pro choice advocates try to do this by denying a unborn child is really a child – which is completely as illogical as saying an infant isn’t a child that deserves rights. (because an infant is also a developing human, not fully developed just like an embryo).
Regardless of how hard it is to deal with, when someone chooses to have sex they also choose to risk pregnancy which then gives rights to that new entity – the same right to life that every other human shares.
It’s about personal responsibility – and frankly if you are not able to handle the responsibility you should not have sex.
I would get 5 jobs before aborting a child because I understand they have a sacred right to life. I also think society needs to do much more to help people.
Also I obviously don’t agree with it being just a “personal” decision. It’s a “personal” decision before you decide to risk pregnancy by having sex (even safe sex).
You can decide not to get pregnant by not risking it.
But once you risk it and get pregnant then you have created a new being with rights of it’s own… and it’s no longer your “personal” decision anymore.
It’s also NOT just a religious thing but also civil. Just like an infant has a right to protection under the law, so should the child in a mothers belly. I don’t have to believe in God to know that is right, just like I know it’s not ok that the Nazi killed a bunch of innocent people as well and that wasn’t right.
My basic point- That we can better “come together” and work on ways to provide the social aid needed when you pro-choice folks stop needing to advocate the violation of the rights of the unborn.
Until then it’s going to be a struggle.

DK
your implied absolutist control over how and when people have sex is very Orwellian, folks can only ‘get it on’ according to your standards? …. amazin’
the ‘problem’ with the anti-choice side is that you pick sides…. to hell with the women who happens to be pregnant, whether she wanted to be or not, raped, incest, accident, med problems, whatever.
the comments about people who are ‘pro-abortion’ are a myth……
the advocacy of the pro-choice side is about being against folks like you, who believe they know what’s best for everyone in every situation, you want to decide what other women can do…..
I don’t think that’s your call to make…. your religious background might force you to your conclusions, but, not everybody believes as you do.

Since you guys are so for “pro-choice” you might also consider advocating other free choices as well.. like for example if I drive drunk and drive my car into a bunch of people – I shouldn’t be responsible for their death.. after all it was just a free choice on my part.
Also if I women has the “right to choose” then the father should as well. How about a waiver that the women signs if the father is not interested in being responsible for his actions, so he is not responsible for child care if she goes forward with the birth.
I mean according to you people everyone should be “free” regardless of the consequences of their actions. If the life of developing children shouldn’t get in the way of your fun, i’m not sure why we should stop there. No need to be responsible for ourselves in any matter really.

OBAMA IS NOT GOD.

I am a Christian that does not believe in murdering the unborn. When you abort a child you are killing America’s future!
Posted by: R. Pfau
too bad so many ‘christians’ thought slavery was a good idea….