Liz Cheney Assails Release of Detainee Abuse Photos as ‘Siding with Terrorists’ — and Is White House Walking the Photo Release Back?

I think your Father is Appalling Liz and so does most of the Country!

Obama hates the US and the military. He never missed an opportunity to bash them, even now. He blamed our soldiers for a propoganda killing of innocents by Al Qaeda, In fact, Hillary and Obama apologized for our soldiers.
Now that the truth is out, I won’t hold my breath waiting for a correction and an apology to our soldiers.
Obama is moving with great deliberateness to damage this country.
Obama is moving on many fronts, as the libs have for years, to damage our reputation, our economy and our very survival in this world as he continues to side with terrorists.
Everyone laughed at his 57 state slip up during the campaign as if he were actually talking about the US.
There is a tight coalition of 57 mideastern states at the UN who find their common ground in their anti-american, anti-israel, death to both posture.
I would suggest that Obama relates to this so much his 57 state slip was simply an homage to his true feelings. He has done nothing to help, and everything to damage this country.
He has helped himself though, in a very big way to all our tax dollars.

Releasing these photos will only embolden the terrorists and fan their anti-American fervor. Those who agree with releasing them – apparently attributable to their hatred of Bush/Cheney – need to realize that every American will be impacted by the result.

“Releasing these photos will only embolden the terrorists and fan their anti-American fervor. Those who agree with releasing them – apparently attributable to their hatred of Bush/Cheney – need to realize that every American will be impacted by the result.”
Every American is affected by the actions of Bush and Cheney, pretending it never happened or defending actions we find repugnant is beneath us as Americans.

Oh Liz, haven’t you heard? They’re not terrorists anymore – they’re freedom fighters who create man made disasters!
The real terrorists are Americans who believe in their Constitutional rights. Silly girl.

I don’t care what the consequences are… I refuse to support torture.
It’s evil to sin against God for fear of the devil.

I don’t care what the consequences are… I refuse to support torture.
It’s evil to sin against God for fear of the devil.
Posted by: yikers | May 12, 2009 4:08:27 PM
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You don’t have to support what you call torture to understand the deliberate damage being done with the release of these photo’s.
There is no purpose other than to help terrorists recruit.
The photos reflect crimes for which perpetrators have been jailed and punished.
There only reason to release these now is to promote anti-american progaganda.
They aren’t calling for hearings, the perpetrators have already been punished. This is about fomenting anti-american hatred and terrorist recruitment.

Posted by: MNM | May 12, 2009 4:07:16 PM
Yesterday, Obama-haters were telling me that Obama needed to apologize over mean comments some comedian made about Rush Limbaugh.
Today, Obama-haters are calling Obama “anti-american, terrorist-sympathizing slime.”
The sad thing is, on the right, calling Obama “terrorist slime” is regarded as astute political commentary. MNM could be a Presidential candidate in 2012 with vitriol like that!

Why does the ACLU want to release these photos, other than to creat more hate and anger? Aren’t they supposed to fight AGAINST hate?

Hey Liz… Which administration did the the abuses occur under – YOUR FATHER’S – and your father threw those so-called ‘bad apples’ under the BUS when they were following HIS and BUSH’S orders to torture in the first place!!! Spare us your hypocrisy!!!! Spare us your father’s war crimes and crimes against humanity – he did it – he sanctioned it – threw those that followed his orders under the bus!!!!
We become ‘terrorist’ when we use torture against them – we become everything they claim they are fighting against in the first place – thanks to your father!!!! And they will continue to hate us because of your father and Bush!!!!

The sad thing is, on the right, calling Obama “terrorist slime” is regarded as astute political commentary. MNM could be a Presidential candidate in 2012 with vitriol like that!
Posted by: yikers | May 12, 2009 4:17:06 PM
——–
You neglect to recopy all the facts I posted to support that assertion. There are so many that I won’t take the time to restate them now.
How about you tell us something he has done to actually help the US and it’s image. I don’t mean the propaganda of the stimulus, which so far is useless as the only jobs growing are Obama government hires.
Let’s see there could be his proud Euro and south America tour, but no, he just apologized for the US and shamed us around the world.
So tell me how releasing these photo’s is going to serve any purpose other than to further harm our image and put us at risk for retaliatory attacks?
This is pure anti-americanism and he is a slime for it.
That is not the same however as Obama laughing at death to Rush Limbaugh jokes, as I am sure your head would have exploded had Bush or Cheney openly laughed at death to say David Gregory jokes.
Your dem double standard is always at play, and somehow it is never in support of your own country, only in support of Obama who is harming us at every turn.

“House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer said Tuesday that investigations into the Bush administration’s use of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects should look into what congressional leaders, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, knew about the methods that have been criticized as torture….
“Frankly, information about what was said, when it was said, who said it, that ought to be on the record so the American public knows,” Hoyer said.”
Oh that Madame Speaker.
Dumb as a box of rocks.
Serial liar.
Surrounded by appearances of impropriety.
Obstructor of bipartisan commission to address SS/Medicare/Medicaid.

Hey Liz… Which administration did the the abuses occur under – YOUR FATHER’S – and your father threw those so-called ‘bad apples’ under the BUS when they were following HIS and BUSH’S orders to torture in the first place!!! Spare us your hypocrisy!!!! Spare us your father’s war crimes and crimes against humanity – he did it – he sanctioned it – threw those that followed his orders under the bus!!!!
We become ‘terrorist’ when we use torture against them – we become everything they claim they are fighting against in the first place – thanks to your father!!!! And they will continue to hate us because of your father and Bush!!!!
Posted by: Melanie | May 12, 2009 4:25:20 PM
————-
Now this is tinfoil hat stuff.
There is nothing to support your assertion that Bush or Cheney supported these heinous misdeeds, and indeed the perpetrators were punished.
Saying they supported it is simply lib propaganda at it’s worst and I can hear your head exploding as you scream Bush Cheney in your post.
They did not support these deeds no matter how many dems wish to slander them by saying so.
Not to be confused with enhanced interrogation which they take full responsibilty for, unlike co-conspirator Pelosi.

Regardless of whose side are you on, I’m merely confused as to why Liz Cheney’s opinion is the top story on ABCNews.com right now. Isn’t there anything else more newsworthy going on?

“You don’t have to support what you call torture to understand the deliberate damage being done with the release of these photo’s.”
That deliberate damage? You’re just in your own little world over there, aren’t you?
Posted by: Silky | May 12, 2009 4:32:11 PM
————
Gee wasn’t it you dems who screamed and screamed that these actions were simply recruitment tools for the enemy?
Now that Obama is in office it is “no harm done”
Do you take notes to keep your positions straight now that the administration has changed,
Of course it will do damage. Of course they will be used worldwide as anti-american propaganda, and recruitment tools for al qaeda.
It will all be as Obama wishes.

“Your dem double standard is always at play, and somehow it is never in support of your own country, only in support of Obama who is harming us at every turn.”
I’m sick of this hyperbole. You imagine this black and white world where everyone is either a torture-loving, pro-American, Republican…. or a terrorist, America-hating, Democrat, slime.
You are entitled to this belief, of course. But you really ought to think about it.
Making such stark ontological claims about good and evil has real consequences… maybe not for you. I only pray to God that you are too timid to act on your beliefs…
But make no mistake about it, there are people in this world who are not so timid. And when they get pumped up on the kind of black/white, ultimate good vs. ultimate evil ideology that is so fashionable nowadays… they act with grave consequences… and imagine themselves to be “heroes” for the ultimate good as they inflict suffering on people who just happen to believe differently.
If someone acts based on the kind of paranoid propaganda you are spewing, you are morally responsible for spreading it around.

“Frankly, information about what was said, when it was said, who said it, that ought to be on the record so the American public knows,” Hoyer said.”
Oh that Madame Speaker.
Dumb as a box of rocks.
_____________________________________
Two other Senators Graham and Rockefeller also say they were not briefed on torture and EIT despite the CIA documents stating otherwise.

How many Cheney’s are we going to be forced to listen to? Nor her fault, bu this woman was raised by sociopaths. Why should anyone care what she thinks? Maybe if you media guys would stop making their self-serving statements headline news they would disappear into the oblivion they so richly deserve.
Posted by: Michele | May 12, 2009 4:37:15 PM
——-
That is really funny from those that have brought us the likes of
Jimmy Carter,
Al Gore,
Bill Clinton.
Your desire to silence anyone who doesn’t agree with dems is at least consistent.

Sorry you missed Cheney’s drip the other day… he sanctioned torture – he said Bush knew it and sanctioned it too… War crimes!!!! Even if they tried to ‘rewrite’ the law – it is still war crimes!!!! Try your GOP spin on the less educated… you know – fellow GOPers.
Posted by: Melanie | May 12, 2009 4:38:54 P
——
Last I checked Pelosi , Rockefeller, Harmon were all dems. They had an advise and consent role.
However you are confusing the photo’s today with enhanced interrogation.
Today’s photos are of crimes committed by soldiers who have since been punished.
The photo’s are not about enhanced interrogation.

I agree with her substantially. What we call torture in our culture would not necessarily be considered torture in a culture that rips the body limbs of converts from their religion until they die. Who bury adulterers alive. Execute people for being gay or lesbian. Perform honor killings against their family members who are raped, or who may have flirted with someone outside of their religion. Let’s get real people, we were not dealing with people raised in Manhattan!!

On behalf of liberals everywhere may I please say “God bless the Cheney’s”

Thats the way i have seen things come down too…Why is it so important to Obama that all the top secrets are released ?and the photo’s This sure isn’t helping america’s image at all..America has done good and bad but mostly good for other countiers and we receive nothing back …

She is obviously out there doing her best to keep her father out of jail. Most kids of war criminals do that. If it means taking the victims of 9/11 hostage then so be it.

Amazing how these folks suddenly become the media’;s best friends when that’s their only way to stay in the news…

What a ridiculous child. She’s pretending that the Obama administration is somehow pushing these photos out to the public. The reality is that the current admin is responding to a completely reasonable and legal request made by the ACLU under the Freedom of Information Act.
My question is why should the current administration stonewall a Freedom of Information Act request as the Bush admin did? This is just one more example of the Republicans making themselves look childish.

That is really funny from those that have brought us the likes of
Jimmy Carter,
Al Gore,
Bill Clinton.
Your desire to silence anyone who doesn’t agree with dems is at least consistent.
Posted by: MNM | May 12, 2009 4:39:34 PM
And who bought us Jimmy Carter (the corrupt Nixon administration).
Al Gore – you may not like his politics but he has brought something to the front of discussion – GLOBAL WARMING – you know the gases that are released by the coal, gas and oil industries, manufacturing and cars in this country and around the world – and by deforestation… that would eventually destroy our planet if not reversed.
Bill Clinton – you just don’t like him because he got a ###### in the WH… otherwise he was a fairly decent President who made some stupid mistakes but he didn’t take 6 years to realize and speak about AIDs (as Reagan did) and he did not have the opportunity to take out Salaam as Bush Sr did – BUT he did have the opportunity to take out Bin Laden and didn’t… and we all paid a price for that. But Bush Jr. was the worst… and we will pay dearly for that for decades to come!

Wow, photos = bad. How about the actions that lead to the photo op? What about that? “It makes America look bad”…well maybe they should have paused a moment and gave that one a more thought, eh?
Hint: If photos make something look bad, it probably is bad.

Obama is only interested in making the US look bad even thgough it is certainly not true. Too many sermons by Rev. Wright. Obama is the biggest mistake ever made by voters and he is proving it each day.

Exactly, Keagan.

What is Obama’s motive for releasing these pictures? Obama seems to be promoting hate against Americans around the world. What good will it do to release these pictures?
The terrorist would not think twice about beheading an American, but we are worried about interrogation methods?

Liz Cheney is worried about the photos that Obama released. She should have been more worried about her father torturing prisoners of war and his crime against the Geneva convention. Releasing the pictures shows the world that we are aware of what atrocities happened under the Bush administration, are taking responsibility for them, and that they will never again happen. Get the message Liz. They will never happen again. It is called regaining the respect of the world and the world courts that your father and Bush destroyed for 8 long years.

As ordered by a judge.
As ordered by a judge.
As ordered by a judge.
What an odd phrase. You don’t suppose it means that the administration is choosing to comply with the law?
No wonder the Cheney’s are so upset.

I have always been told that you don’t air your dirty laundry in public. So, why are we releasing these photos for the whole world to see. Whether you agree with what happened or not, I don’t believe that anyone wants these images out there. The rest of the world pretty much already hates us, lets just make it worse. It doesn’t matter who was right/wrong who is dem/rep, we are all Americans. Unfortunately, when stuff like this is released, we are ALL associated with it.

“They hate us no matter what we do or don’t do.”
That depends on who “they” are. The hard core al-Qaeda terrorists, yes. But not the average citizens of Afghanistan or Pakistan who’s hearts and minds we desperately need on our side if we are to ever succeed in the fight against terror.
By every unjustified war the US wages, by every war crime committed, the terrorists’ number grows.

“Unfortunately, when stuff like this is released, we are ALL associated with it.”
Yes, and it’s time we all started “owning up” to the facts. We are all responsible for the choices of our elected leaders.

You people that say it was torture are out of your minds….Ok lets say that these terrorists had attacked us again..What would you say then…Oh Bush should have stopped them.And everyone knows thats what would have been said…..What do you people want? ..To be safe from these terrorists or what ? Obama administration officials “seem only to be interested in releasing things that really paint America in a negative light, and don’t give the American people a full picture of what went on.”…Why doesn’t Obama release the memo’s that cheney wants released ?..Let us decide who and what was right ..Its always one sided stories with Obama …Half truths and i don’t like it..Whole truth and nothing but the whole truth…

Posted by: mj | May 12, 2009 4:45:48 PM
Do not talk down to me – I minored in history in college and know enough to know that Bush’s and Cheney’s ILLEGAL tactics cause us more harm then good.
Our government – unfortunately supported – the Shah of Iran while he killed and tortured innocent Iranians in his country and we turned a blind eye; our government supported Salaam while he gassed tens of thousands of Kurds in 1988 and Reagan did nothing.
Since I was at the WFC during both terrorist attacks on the WTC – and witnessed in horror as my sister’s building was hit on 9/11 and was one in thousands covered in dust walking across the Brooklyn Bridge – I do remember the Sheik who was arrested, trialed and convicted of the bombing in ’93 AND he and others said they would make sure that the WTC would be hit AGAIN even if it took them years.
Bush was warned by the Clinton administration that Bin Laden was ‘active’ before he took office… so if any one ‘failed’ in protecting this country it was Bush prior to 9/11 and it was Bush’s administration after 9/11 by taking his eye off the ball and attacking Iraq instead of bombing Tora Bora to non-existence!

You people wearing rose colored glasses are unbelievable. I want this country protected. I want our soldiers protected. I do not need to know how/why/when – just that’s it’s being done!

“the Obama administration is complying with the law. Something Cheney Sr. had some problems with.” … The Obama Administrations first job is the safety and security of the country period. To me he seems all to eager to paint America as the newly reformed bad guy. Since when did we become the bad guy??? Who’s country suffered an unprovoked attack and had the crap blown out of it on Sept 11? There is no reason we should feel a need to apologize to these bad people. And if any of these photos compromise the country in any way, then it is the job of the president to make sure they aren’t allowed to do so. It’s easy to paint something anyway you want and these photos only tell part of the story and give fuel to Anti-American supporters (where’s the rest of the story? How about the reasons these people were detained? No saints here I bet). I hope Obama has his priorities straight, I’m not so sure anymore.

Next thing you know ABC News will have an article about how the Palin family will be touring with the Cheney family to promote conservative family values for the GOP. However, The National Enquirer might just scoop that one

El…perhaps you should you go research the dancing in the streets following 9/11 by massive muslim in the ME. They do as a general rule hate us and just about everyone else. Islam preaches the enslaving and murder of infidels. This is a major tenant of this religion and unlike many of the Christian who ignore many of their more unflattering calls in their religion—-Muslims especially in the ME do not. To think they don’t hate us is naive and the result of propaganda….they are taught hate who don’t conform to their ways and even to those that do. Islam is abusive to many including their own.

If Obama really hated America and wanted to destroy America and aid the terrorists, one great tactic he could use would be to subvert the Constitution and ignore the judiciary branch. He could refuse to comply with court orders and override hallmark laws that demonstrate our open democracy to the world, like the Freedom of Information act.
Doing that would really show the world that the constitutional democracy that makes this country great, is on the way out.
I guess he just isn’t thinking of those things while ordering predator strikes on militants in Pakistan or replacing ineffective generals or taking the fight to the Afghan/Pakistani border.
And for everyone who so opposes the release of the photos because of the bad light they shine on America, can I assume you were equally outraged about the actual behavior in the photograph??? Or are you just mad because we got caught? Or are you a conspiracy theorist who will force any fact into your framework of fear and hatred for our duly elected President?

The cats out of the bag the picture that was took at Abu Ghraib put this country and our soldiers at risk so what the Cheneys are doing is nothing more than playing politics and trying to drum up support for her fathers war mistakes.

Liz Cheney’s opinion matters because…?????

“That did more damage to this country than any release of any more pictures of memoes could ever do. ”
What will you say if Obama decides to not release these photos?

Why do these photos exist? If the past administration found these methods “useful, justifiable and effective” and had no moral quandary in using such tactics, then why fear their release? Are we so naive as to think that the rest of the world, including the terrorists, had no idea what we were doing? Are we now a nation so intoxicated by violence that we need to hide it? Are we so addicted to our own propaganda that we have discarded basic human rights, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”? If we are all in this together, and we pretend these photos don’t exist or attempt to bury them does it make us any less culpable? Perhaps it was time for an intervention? Didn’t someone need to tell the “drunk” stumbling through the family reunion that such behavior is harmful to the whole family? Though the process is painful it’s time to get healed?

Does everyone complaining about Obama on this thread really believe showing or not showing those photos are going to change the terrorist’s plans-at all? It will not make a difference. Former administration officials just showing up on TV is enough to inflame half the middle east as it is. Do you not think Cheney’s rants are being broadcast every day by AlJazeera, only serving to drive up their recruitment’s?
Do you really think this was some “big secret”? And the terrorist groups are just now finding out? Gimme a break…

Funny how she is for the right to keep what was done out of the limelight and yet when her Father was for torture she did not say not one damn thing. Now that we are beginning to see the extent of what the administration agreed to do we want to make it go away since it is a stain on the America. It is easy in this life to believe in something when you never had to do anything to earn it! Somewhere these “Great” leaders start off when an intent to do well then they get a “God complex” that they can do whatever they want since they have power to sustain them. You don’t see President Bush saying not one word and for good reason because he knows that if he is smart enough by keeping quiety maybe just maybe this will soon go away.

I wonder how many Americans were saved by waterboarding terrorists out to kill as many of us as possible. Do cry me a river over terrorists be supposedly tortured by waterboarding. Do onto others as they unto us to save our children.

Hey Comrade Obama – feel free to release the detainee photos to the public but ONLY if you also release photos of how the other side treats their captives.
You want to be my president too? Prove it.

Just Asking – good point.
I guess it’s “do unto others, except that I don’t want others to really know how I “do unto” them.

Who is Liz Cheney?

mj: No they “hate” us (Americans)because the United States supports Israel and the Jews. That’s who they all really hate. As long as we send money and weapons, which the Jews use in turn AGAINST Arabs, we will be seen as their enemy. It is NOT religion that makes them turn against Americans. It is political.

If you think you can trust your government … talk to a Native American.
Liz and her daddy just want us to follow in the American tradition of sweeping our sins under the rug for 50 or so years and then the President and government in 2059 can come forward and say we’re so sorry for the way we behaved. It worked with the interned Japanese hell let’s just keep up the charade right Liz? The Cheney name will go down as one of the worst examples of American power run amok.

Next we’ll hear from Cheney’s dog.

1enlightened ……You said…”Does everyone complaining about Obama on this thread really believe showing or not showing those photos are going to change the terrorist’s plans-at all?”…. Do you think releasing these pictures are going to help the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq? Or are they going to fuel more hate towards them? Releasing these pictures is irresponsible.

Imagine having a father who’s the most evil American politician ever! I definately would change my name and relocate. Darth Cheney belongs in prison!

I’m surprise that Liz Cheney didn’t say that Obama is “palling around with terrorists”.

Isn’t the right thing be that we don’t have pictures like this because we didn’t torture? We have the pictures because this really did happen. Our country, one nation under God, tortured people. We did not get good information from this – even if Darth Cheney Vader says so. He couldn’t sell 85% of the US public a used car. So, it is time to fess up. We want the good ol’ USA to stand tall, take the high road, and deal with honor no matter what anyone else does. Would John Wayne have been the lead in Abu Ghraib? This is not what our forefathers fought and died for. Cheney is a criminal and should be in jail.

1. The intensity of Ms. Cheney’s protest leaves one to wonder how much Ms. Cheney knows and who told her.
2. Ms. Cheney and her father desperately argue that exposing actions of the Bush administration will be damaging to the nation. It shows how legally or morally questionable were those actions.
3. It should not have been done, if it was never meant to be known by the public.
Are Mr. and Ms. Cheney advocating for a secret government in America?

People, stop being blindly loyal to Obama. He is making some REAL bad decisions that are bordering on treasonous. Open your eyes and use some common sense here. This was a bad, bad decision and I’m really getting sick of this “he-can-do-no-wrong” blind loyalty.

this is laughable…because what ever you have to say about bush and chenny on this matter you have to say the same about pelosi reid fienstein rokefeeler, kerry and many other dems.their silence and lack of action is worse so i say bring on an investigation rather than leak info here and there. lets be transparent and get it out in total.

Amazing how people who complain out of one side of their mouth that govt is inept and mismanaged and not to be trusted are talking out of the other side of their mouth about how the govt. should be given unlimited power to imprision and destroy people as long as you are allowed to maintain your ignorance.

Obama’s actions have spoken louder then his words…Why would these terrorists be on Obama’s mind so much that on the 2 day in office he ordered the closing of the detention center at Guantanamo Bay ?Why would that way so heavy on his mind ?..Then who was it that he gave his first interview to an Arab network…His action speaks louder then words…

When does releasing a picture amount to siding with terrorist? I guess Bush and Cheney sided with terrorist when they released pictures of Abu Ghraib. Liz has a very short memory.

All you “True Americans” that is questioning President Obama’s Americanism…….you don’t sound like you are “aligned” with America or it’s values. America Don’t Torture! It puts our Servicemen in Danger of this practice in our Countries. It is Against America’s values and principles. Something you have little of.

Posted by: Dave | May 12, 2009 5:27:16 PM
Well Dave – if your ancestors were slaves – you too would not be too fond of certain so-called Americans…
Have you ever read Frederick Douglas speech given on July 4, 1852??? You should…
“….Am I to argue that it is wrong to make men brutes, to rob them of their liberty, to work them without wages, to keep them ignorant of their relations to their fellow men, to beat them with sticks, to flay their flesh with the lash, to load their limbs with irons, to hunt them with dogs, to sell them at auction, to sunder their families, to knock out their teeth, to burn their flesh, to starve them into obedience and submission to their masters? Must I argue that a system thus marked with blood and stained with pollution is wrong? No – I will not. I have better employment for my time and strength than such arguments would imply…. What to the American slave is your Fourth of July? I answer, a day that reveals to him more than all other days of the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mock; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy – a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation of the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of these United States at this very hour.”

CW: “Do you think releasing these pictures are going to help the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq?”
Do you think Cheney ranting on national TV will? Do you think Cheney even cares? Or is he,(lets forget about his “mouthpiece”)more interested in avoiding embarrassment?

I would like to see the photos that Pelosi is associated with.

Arbu Ghraid….”the little guy, our Servicemen” took the fall for this “Thing”, Cheney and “his” administration. This is how “someone without principles” behaves. That idiot and his daughter is living in 1959. And fear-mongering is their ticket.

Andwhat arethis woman’s qualifications that we should care about her opinions? The daughter of one of the misguided, or evil, things these people did? Oh, that makes sense. The new administration is trying to uphold the integrity of America before its own citizens and the world, in the face of the already-known fact that our leaders did wrong. For those very same leaders who disgraced us to take umbrage to someone tarnishing our national image by speaking of it is more than hypocrisy. If they were concerned about painting a negative picture of America, they should have comported themselves with integrity while serving in office.

The CIA has already turned against Obama–like they did against Bush–and started leaking documents to protect themselves. Now it’s clear that Speaker Pelosi knew all about waterboarding–and on whom it was done–and said nothing about it for years.

“Next we’ll hear from Cheney’s dog.”
If he calls waterboarding torture then kos will make him a diarist.

I am tired of hearing jepper jabber, I fight for our Military, I get my boots dirty every-day. I am faced with the stain of blood. so let’s talk about this shall we, For all of you white collar’s were spilling your cup of coffee is the only danger present, Let me tell you that it is about doing what is considered right! An Honest right, then enforcing that value, and setting a proper standard. Then prosecuting anyone that breaks form that standard. If it is a bad action, then it is clearly a bad action. IT”S ABOUT VALUES, that’s what being an American is all about. RED WHITE & BLUE, there is no grey in our colors. For the people that support such un-Constitutional decisions and actions, then IT IS YOU, that makes America look weak!!!
Might I say our constitution was written & based on core values of being a human, so be a true American, as We don’t like Secrets, Lies, and un-Constitutional actions, so to be Honest We don’t like you’re type!
What makes us any better, than the ones we are fighting? It is our VALUES that do! You can win the war, but still be considered a loser, catch my drift…. We do what is right!
Posted by: Tango Bravo | May 12, 2009 5:38:15 PM
Thank you for your service to our country… we truly honor servicemen (and women) such as yourself that have honor and integrity and will NOT condone ‘short cuts’ in the name of terror.
Thank you!!!

Am I the only one confused?
Why was the CIA taking pictures of prisoners as they were being interrogated? Is this standard practice? If so, why are there only 44 of these pictures?
And lastly, I thought the American Civil Liberties Union was designed to protect Americans whose civil liberties were in jeopardy (hence the name) … when did they go international? If detainees in Afghanistan and Iraq (non Americans) are being abused, shouldn’t the United Nations step in? When did the ACLU become the watchdog of our troops?

was this woman part of the administration? why, then, does she pretend to have insiders’ knowledge. Who was she that she was given access to sensitive information? If she didn’t have insider access, then she needs to go sit at the corner.
Good work to that coward to be sending his daughter to do battle for him

Why is this even news? Who cares what she has to say. What, she worried her dear ol’ dad may face war crime charges in the future? That would be quite understandable.

Bush and Chney recruited more terrorists then Bin Laden ever could. Boy those terrorists sure miss their best recruiters! The US went from a well respected country to a torture loving warrior nation in a very short duration.

Why is Fox News always thrown in like it’s the only place to assail Obama? I watched Liz Cheney on MSNBC this morning and I agree with what she is saying. If you’re going to release memos, then include the many that state how the the interrogation worked to stop terrorist activity. Don’t pick and choose what is released to the public. Since when did we stop wanting both sides to a story?

A Nation of Laws!

AJ
The whackjob terrorists started blowing things up LONG before Bush/Cheney took office, who recruited them?
This whole “blame Bush and America for everyhing wrong with the world” notion used by liberals is getting really old.

President Obama is the first reason I’ve had to hold my head high as an American for the past eight years.

Melanie
While I believe that Douglas’ speech is very moving, it was to be applied to something very different. While you are a NYer and I can only imagine what you have been through, I can’t imagine that you wouldn’t want to stop another attack. These images only help to give more ammunition to these terrorists. Why should we release them?

McVeigh was not a Christian, real christians don’t kill others because of “their’ beliefs in America. McVeigh was an Extremist nut. There’s plenty of them.

The same technique he used to take those pirates out. Good intelligence and good police work. We have a “mighty Army” that does intelligence work, and has the tools to get information from anyone without Torture.

I think in referring to waterboarding as torture, a lot of people seem to miss the point.
Yes, if the average person off the street was waterboarded, it would indeed be torture. But waterboarding was not performed to average people off the street — it was performed on high-ranking Al Quada members who have been trained to withstand these interrogation techniques …. much like our own CIA trains our own spies to withstand these interrogation techniques.
That’s why we, as a country, should not be so eager to inform our enemies about exactly what methods our interrogators prefer to use.

Lizzy says that she’s concerned that we’re putting out information that “hurts American soldiers.” That is EACTLY why we shouldn’t be torturing anyone! That is EXACTLY why the U.S. has agreed to and signed several international agreements not to torture – in order to help prevent our troops from being tortured. That is EXACLY why the President is right in releasing these heinous activities done illegally by the Bush administration.

OK all of the people with high principles who say we can’t even waterboard…( I don’t even consider that torture according to webster’s dictionary definition but anyways). If you were the national intelligence director and were ultimately in charge of extracting information from captured enemies, what exactly would you do? I hear so many voices against something that countries all over the world use and have been using since the beginning of recorded history…. but nobody seems to be elaborating on the logistics. Giving us some details on what they would do instead of torture might go far in giving those people a shred of credibility in criticizing the decisions of the people hired to keep us safe. Can anyone tell us how to get information out of an enemy if they’re not willing to just tell us other than torture? I’m all ears. Do we bake them a cake? Take them to Disney Land? Ya… that’ll make em talk.

Like it or not, Cheney is speaking the truth..and he has as much right to speak out on the issues as the democrats who are making accusations and snide remarks against him and the past president. I for one, am sick and tired of the biased reporting by the press and the hipocracy of the democrats in office now. If it wasn’t for the policies of the Clinton administration that cut back on what was needed to defend the US and process intelligence that could have stopped the events of 9/11 from happening, 8,000 plus people who were murdered by terrorists in NY, DC and Pennsylvania might still be alive! God help us if that same mentality enables another attack against US citizens. I honestly wonder just who are these people in Congress and the White House, who are suppose to represent THE PEOPLE OF THE USA, really represent?! They seem to be far more concerned about protecting these islamic extremists and terrorists than their own constituents. If another attack occurs, the blame will rest with the idiots in congress now and Obama, NOT BUSH!

Liz, darling, if you really have interest in carrying a torch for the U.S.A., sign up to wear its uniform.

I am tired of hearing jepper jabber, I fight for our Military, I get my boots dirty every-day. I am faced with the stain of blood. so let’s talk about this shall we, For all of you white collar’s were spilling your cup of coffee is the only danger present, Let me tell you that it is about doing what is considered right! An Honest right, then enforcing that value, and setting a proper standard. Then prosecuting anyone that breaks form that standard. If it is a bad action, then it is clearly a bad action. IT”S ABOUT VALUES, that’s what being an American is all about. RED WHITE & BLUE, there is no grey in our colors. For the people that support such un-Constitutional decisions and actions, then IT IS YOU, that makes America look weak!!!
Might I say our constitution was written & based on core values of being a human, so be a true American, as We don’t like Secrets, Lies, and un-Constitutional actions, so to be Honest We don’t like you’re type!
What makes us any better, than the ones we are fighting? It is our VALUES that do! You can win the war, but still be considered a loser, catch my drift…. We do what is right!
Posted by: Tango Bravo | May 12, 2009 5:38:15 PM
Tango Bravo, you are a credit to our country and our military. Thank you for this well-thought post. Our leaders should be humbled by the fact that they failed to live up to your decency. God Bless You and keep you safe!

Question who would you rather follow? A respected war veteran,a four star general who led many in battle. Or a draft dodging five deferment coward? Cheney vs Colin Powell. I’d pick Powell every time! True Americans would do the same. All you Cheney supporters are traitors to what our country was founded on. Our forefathers would give Cheney a good smack no doubt! Cheney goes against most everything that is good about this country. He’s definately a war criminal going on his his past behavior.

Who the heck is Liz Cheney in the scheme of things?
Sounds like D.Cheney has relocated to another undisclosed location and Liz has replaced W at the end of his puppet strings.

what’s done in darkness will be brought to the light……what’s spoken in secret will be shouted from the rooftop…..

Colin Powell Had Too Much Principles and Values to ever be associated with these “hoodlums”. He did the right thing after seeing how “low” these idiots were. He Left! We knew all along why he left.

Alchemist:
how do you know Tim McVeigh was a devolt Christian? Who told you that? Did he tell you that? Where did you get your information. The Bible tells me that eternal life does not abide in murderers…..

Obama’s supporters sure don’t handle dissent very well, do they? Their reactions border on derangement.
And their guy won. LOL.

Liz Cheney should not forget that the initial pictures of torture of prisoners at abu ghraib was released by the Bush Administration. Those poor troopers guarding those prisoners are now serving time in prison for those acts. Now it turns out that they were only following orders from higher ups. It seems to me like we put the wrong people in jail. Liz Cheney is speaking out on this issue now because it is very likely that her old man might have some responsibility in ordering the torture. The Justice Department should conduct a thorough investigation of this mess and let the chips fall where they may.

American Soldiers Took The Fall for Cheney and Bush. Dirty Dogs!

Live your life as if everything you did would appear on the front page of the news paper, my grandfather once said, because you know, you never know if one day it will be ;-)

Let’s face it. The Obama administration is soft on Terrorism.
Posted by: Obamatronix | May 12, 2009 6:11:33 PM
We were attacked during the Bush Administration… torturing people only plays into the hands of the terrorists – as it incites terror and makes what may be reasonable people do wrong…
Americans convicted and executed former Germans and Japanese soldiers, judges and SS personnel, military commanders for torture… and the ‘just following orders’ excuse.

The timeline don’t fit when Cheney talks about “saving another attack”. Coward Cheney let those soldiers take his “weight!”

President Obama doesn’t need to get “even”. He already did.

Do not forget the thousands of lost lives throughout Americas history in protection of the very laws that some suggest that we throw away. 911 was a terrible loss and we should do everything possible to protect ourselves from such an occurrence again, but not at the loss of the very values that our forefathers fought for us all to keep and maintain. Cheney, again, is not a patriot but has instead committed treason against these very principles of our nation. Do not forget those lost during 911 or during Bushes war in Iraq and also do not forget our patriots of many of our past wars that fought for these principles that Cheney and company wish to throw away.
Also, be careful what you wish to allow in America. You may get what you want to allow to also occur against other Americans. What we fought and died for during our American history for not just ourselves but as an example to the rest of the world will have been for naught. Waterboarding will not be the last level of torture and Pandora’s box will have been opened upon not just those non-Americans but Americans themselves. Is that really what you want? Think about it. This is truly worth fight against. Cheney does not care about you and me. He is only protecting his own skin as he did when he found ways to avoid serving his country during Viet Nam. Do not be a fool to be fooled further by greater fools.

I feel that Cheney’s daughter is having a tough time realizing what so many people feel about her dad. That he is a lawbreaker and a torturer. That he should be brought to justice.

i bet u whatever is coming out will be pretty damning of cheney. that is why he is out in full force doing the media version of a “pre-emptive strike.” that and the fact that he is such a power ###### that he refuses to leave the world stage. he still cant accept that he is not in a central place of power and influence. Why cant he just go AWAY!!!!!

Can’t the Cheney’s move to Dubai to reside with Haliburton? I absolutely can not stand this whole family.

Someone asked what kind of punishment would you give to those that waterboarded? Or those who gave permission? ….. I say we give them a medal! You super soft folks just don’t get it and never will. By the way for all you that are saying Cheney and Bush will be in jail, I can’t wait to see the PHOTOS of Pelosi in the cell right next door. Don’t worry lefties, there are still plenty of us with a little backbone to stand up for this country instead of trying to rip it apart. We will fight to defend you too….. Even if you try to throw us in jail for doing it.

“Her father is a war criminal and he has taught her well. Those good old Republican values. The only people they consider human are themselves.”
How about you. Are you thankful Bush and Cheney kept our country safe after 911 for 7+ years?

Liz Cheney is 100% right. The fools who rip her apart have no idea what real “torture” is. Thank God a majority of the people in this country are not liberal.

‘Are you appreciative of Bush and Cheney that they kept the US safe from terrorist attacks after 911?’
Yeah, I’m also appreciative that they kept me safe from the bogeyman. Furthermore, an asteroid could have hit the planet over the last eight years, but it didn’t and I would also like to thank them for that.

What happened to the wheel chair Cheney rode in for the inauguration!? I thought he look better in it. It’s a shame his daughter Liz is trying to defend the indefensible!

MNM: What? And what planet have you been living on over the past year. Do you understand a single thing that you tried to say? I sure didn’t.

It’s enough to put you off your bread and jam. If they ever bothered to give you any.

Posted by: stickman | May 12, 2009 6:47:01 PM
Your kind of defense called ‘torture’ we can do without – thank you very much! I’ll take and defend our America with good decent values not deluded bible waving – intolerance, evil rhetoric… in the name of ‘fear’ or ‘hate’ and for ‘oil’ and corrupt companies such as Hallerburton… Oh – yeah they just moved their corporate headquarters to UAE to AVOID paying US taxes – so much for Cheney’s Americanism…

Ok how about over 40,000,000 babies aborted over the last 30 years. Think about it. The terrorist were tortured. The abortions are still going on. Think about it.
Posted by: aforefreedom | May 12, 2009 6:52:13 PM
HOW ABOUT THE 6 MILLION CHILDREN THAT DIE EACH YEAR AROUND THE WORLD FROM MALNUTRITION AND DIEASES THAT ARE EASILY CURED!!!! I GUESS THAT DOESN’T BOTHER YOU BECAUSE THEY ALREADY EXIST!!!!

“HOW ABOUT THE 6 MILLION CHILDREN ”
“How about over 40,000,000 babies aborted”
How about the millions of voters with arrested development that voted for Obama. Something to think about, huh?

The government followed a decision of a US court, so what DOES she complain about?
That the government protects and abides to US law?
Or will she take side of those who want to abandon US laws? Like the man that commited the 9-11 attacks?
She should better consider what she critizies, as this makes no sense: to claim she fights terror and then to ask to drop courts decisions and to desintigrate the state she want to protect?
Sounds confusing to you?
Well, that is beacuse it IS confusing.

If we had a free press the headline would be:
“Liz Cheney claims that terrorists have truth on their side”
Just sayin’

Melanie, First off I am not a religious person so take your cristian hate somewhere else, second off, where does George store all this oil he stole? I never could figure that one out. Third, what are you going to do when you need a little info? Bake cupcakes for them? Offer them cookies? It’s so funny how blowing off a couple of kids heads in the ocean is okay but you throw a little water on someone its OHH MMYYY GODDDDD TORTURE. Take a step back before you start throwing stones…. Nancy learned that the hard way.

‘”Listen, no liberal believes that terrorism is okay ”
Liberals must believe it’s OK for terrorists to torture because we never see liberals protesting about it.’
By this logic you must be for child-molestation because I never saw you protest it. Doesn’t make much sense, does it? If it makes you feel better though I hereby formally protest the use of terrorism. I thought it was a given, but so you can no longer put words in this liberal’s mouth there you go. I object to, detest and protest against the use of terrorism.

If we do ever get attacked again i would like to know who’s going to take the blame…Or should i say who will you blame ?

There are times in life when it is necessary to break a law in order to save a life or lives. This is reality, not a classroom project.
How many of you would break a law to save a life?

“I object to, detest and protest against the use of terrorism.”
lol..OK, (I think you mean torture). So, would you break a law to save a life?

Melonie…would you break a law to save a life?

tenlighened…Would you break a law to save a life?

aforefreedom posted “Ok how about over 40,000,000 babies aborted over the last 30 years. Think about it. The terrorist were tortured. The abortions are still going on. Think about it.” I did. Many people don’t believe a fetus is a baby. We are also smart enough to realize that both liberals and conservatives get abortions.

thats your name under the post, maybe a different melanie… but a melanie none the less.
Posted by: stickman | May 12, 2009 7:36:16 PM
Well – with your paranoid and delusional logic – then you must also agree with ‘that was a Catholic priest molesting young boys for years and because the Diocese just moved him to another location’ it was ok….

And on the issue of abortion….I don’t really agree with it…but what is the alternative….and why are these folks not as outraged over the death penalty??? Can you say hypocrites????

Posted by: Sigmonde | May 12, 2009 7:40:18 PM
They would be in an ambulance hopefully being saved by trained professional… EMTs…
Sigmonde – give up – you and I will never, ever think the same – which in my opinion is a good thing ‘for me’…

And if we are talking about blaming the people who ignore the possibility of an attack….where was the Bush administration when the memo went out that an attack by air was imminent????

And on the issue of abortion….I don’t really agree with it…but what is the alternative….and why are these folks not as outraged over the death penalty??? Can you say hypocrites????
Posted by: josie
How is killing an innocent, unborn baby even remotely similar to executing a convicted killer? It takes flawed logic to believe that the two issues are somehow linked.
That said, many pro-lifers are, in fact, also opposed to the death penalty and vigorously urge states to consider “life in prison” sentences rather than the death penalty.

Cheney is utter moron, if this country wasn’t so afraid to open all the nonsense that went on, he would be tried for war crimes and going against what this country stands for. New poll on Cheney 19% approve of him, keep talking !

sigmonde:”Would you break a law to save a life?”
As I said, comparing traffic violations to the greater issue being discussed here only serves to marginalize them, and demonstrates the play on the feeble mindedness of those whom would agree with such thinking.
Simple mindedness does not “win wars”. Such people, being easily confused and quick to anger are the ones who have gotten us into this mess.
This particular debate is “non sequitur”
as I’m sure anyone in their right mind would “run a red light” to save someone.

Well – with your paranoid and delusional logic – then you must also agree with ‘that was a Catholic priest molesting young boys for years and because the Diocese just moved him to another location’ it was ok….
What are you even talking about?

liz cheney who???? does she believe in gay marriage…oh..wrong story. not in my america. proof law was broken 100%. proof a life was saved 0%. we harbor and give refuge to those whom suffer torture. remember its one of our virtues. virtues…i forgot that a “liberal” concept

And if we are talking about blaming the people who ignore the possibility of an attack….where was the Bush administration when the memo went out that an attack by air was imminent????
Posted by: josie
Because the White House does not employ psychics or mind readers, no one knew about 9-11 before it happened and no one – not the Clinton administration or the Bush administration – believed Al Quada capable of such an attack.
Trying to blame Bush for the 9-11 attacks is just as unjust as trying to pin it all on Clinton. Al Quada is responsible for their own actions … Bush didn’t force them to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings … the hijackers are responsible for those actions. An adminstration can only go so far in trying to prevent attacks before they happen. Of course, thanks to enhanced interrogation techniques, we now know a whole lot more about Al Quada then we did before 9-11 — so much more that several subsequent attacks were stopped before they happened.

sigmonde: “Then you would agree that someone in their right mind would break the law and use torture to save lives?”
Ok, I’ll rephrase an earlier comment…
Educate yourself, if you can.

“Ok, I’ll rephrase an earlier comment…”
Oh, I see. You want to flip flop on your earlier comment. lol

President Obama has a lot of sort of rhetoric about support for our military families and support for our men and women who are fighting overseas but, you know, if he really cares about them he wouldn’t be making such an effort to release photos that show them in a negative light.”
If her old man cared about the military at all he wouldn’t have put them in that predicament in the first place. He didn’t give a damn about them. He’s only cares about himself.

Bush, lowest approval rating for his dismal foreign, environment and economic legacy. Cheney, who uses the constitution like toilent paper. Now they’re getting angry at Obama for releasing the truth. Screw them! The truth is the best policy! Thank GOD those two are gone and we have a popular, intelligent, engaged, awake president and a vice president who’s not the one running the oval office. Let’s move on America.

“Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive”.
Who is guilty of torture? Who was commander in chief of the military?
BUSH in appearances CHENEY in his own words said “BUSH SIGNED OFF ON IT” May 10, 2009 Face the Nation.SO you can believe that the order came from CHENEY.
Anyone who ever served in the military can tell you the order to torture can only originate from the very top command. Yet as this order passed through the chain of command who spoke out that this order is against every law and the constitution?.
Ask yourself if this could remain a secret from the members of senate or the house of Representatives? So how many of the house and senate knew of this and said nothing?
Why were the lowest in the chain of command prosecuted and not the commanders in charge?
When you the reader of these words was made aware of the torture that was taking place, What did you do? Did you write, e-mail, fax, phone to anyone in the goverment to voice your thoughts on torture?. Well it is time to take the blindfold from your eyes and mind.
The JUDGE ordered that the photo’s become public so that you and I will keep a close watch on those that we hire(vote)to do a government job. Stop blaming president Obama! It may come as a great shock to you, HE IS OBEYING THE LAW ! Does anyone after the last eight years realize there are laws in America that even the president must obey.
If you want good government then you must be a good citizen and check up on Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How those you elected (hired by you) are doing their job. Every answer to your questions are on the goverment web site or in newspapers archives.
Some people grow with power other’s merely swell”

I guess you haven’t read the 911 papers…obviously there was fair warning and condeleeza rice chose to ignore it…..there was plenty of warning that was not taken seriously….

The dingbat Republicans are saying things about Obama that we were saying about Bush and Cheney – the difference being that Bush and Cheney and the entire Republican party really are crooked, corrupt, stupid, fascists, dictators, idiots, morons, etc, etc. We will never forget: Bush, Cheney and the Party tried to create a one-party system by screwing the Democrats, perverting every federal agency using Republican hoodlums. Bush and Cheney broke every law in the land, screwed the U.S. Constitution and diluted Democracy. There is only one place for the entire Republican Party -jail!!
Oh yes! Let’s not forget that they launched a right-wing, Christian Crusade against Iraq! And, Oh Yeah! they totally destroyed our economy! And they are trying to defeat Obama, who is trying to fix the Republican disaster! There is a reason only 21% of Americans identify themselves as Republicans! I hope the Republican Party dissolves into oblivion! They do not deserve, nor do they have the right to be in power ever again. Considering what they have done to our country – every Republican should be in jail – the party is corrupt and anyone who supports them is corrupt – including their right-wing Christian Crusaders who wanted Bush to attack Iraq – and every other non-Christian country. I was beginng to think that religion is the root cause all evil, however, the right-wing Christians and the Republican Party have to take credit for the evil they have launched – as one! Interestingly, many Republicans don’t like the “Religious Right”. The glue that keeps them together – is evil!
Now the Republicans are whining and pretending to be “Victims”! They can never part of any solution. They are only capable of causing problems. It will take years for the rest of us will to fix all the damage they have done to this country – and the rest of the world. So, Republicans, go way and stay away!!

ok, i was service member overseas working at a detention facility. Those people were not sleep deprived or tortured while in camp, unless you consider torture and air conditioned tent, 3 hot meals with fruit and blessed food, all their religious needs met, radio, tv, dvd player, library, an actual education taught by their own people (that includes things like math, arabic, english and no not history). Yes these people were so abused. I didn’t have AC that worked, got one cold meal and it was the same thing everyday. Oh yeah did i mention i got back almost a year ago. Torture, please!! These people were babied. Oh yeah they also got paid while they were in the facility to. Get over yourselves and get the facts right from some people that worked in one and was disgusted b/c they got treated a 100 times better than we did and still got the same treatment when i saw them stab one of my friends the jugular. Show the 40 some odd photos but don’t forget to show the 100′s of 1000′s of photos showing where they were getting treated better than our own service members.

josie — I have read the 911 commission papers. Place blame where it belongs — with the terrorists who hijacked planes and flew them into buildings. Yes, Osama bin Laden/Al queda was considered a big threat but no one — no one — believed they were capable of that type of attack. Until 9-11, Al Queda’s attacks had been much smaller and far less organized.
Do you really believe that if Bush or anyone in his administration thought that 9-11 could happen, they wouldn’t have done everything in their power to stop it??

and further…What action did the Clinton administration take when they received the information leading to the memo?

ok here is another fact that maybe some people can understand about dictatorships since they think that the republican party was one (and no i am not a republican)…a dictatorship is one that tries to control everything like ummm….let me think…like obama controlling the way execs get paid (no i am not an exec so don’t try to play that card on me)…dictators try to control every aspect of your life including what u pay, how u pay, when you pay and why you pay. Sounds so much like the republican party that instead of giving a huge bailout to the industry they tried first giving it to us as the american people but we sometimes forget that they tried doing that. Yes the republican party did screw up in a phenomenal ways and i will never deny that but i’m also not letting it by me that so far our military spending as decreased which means that our salaries (highly under paid might i add “personal thought”) are going to be cut some and our bonuses are already gone. Now back to the dictatorship theory here…let’s see. Oh yeah did i mention the thought of giving the money to the states as a LOAN until a payback is given back which can also, if u have read the stipulations in this bailout plan, means control from the federal govt…so much for state governing themselves. Next lets look at the control over our health care system. A federal CONTROL system of what can be allowed to be charged. As i remember the soviet union tried the same thing i believe the majority of their doctors came over here. Sorry but the last administration did do some henous things but never once tried to tell me what i could make and if i can receive a bonus or not for doing a really good job. The last administration was hell but this is not much better. Welcome to United Socialist of America. Thank you

Truth mags….the reason is truth…

verner….this torture is already known by the enemy….did you forget abu ghraib??? The sad thing is if the Bush administration condoned torture….not one of those soldiers that were found guilty at the prison at abu ghraib should be there… talk about supporting the troops?????

“Not criticize Bush??? Wasn’t he in charge???”
Is Obama responsible for the 4 soldiers killed yesterday in Iraq ? Isn’t Obama in charge?

If the treatment was as good as this person says, clearly we should WANT these photos released. Great advert for our compassion
“Those people were not sleep deprived or tortured while in camp, unless you consider torture and air conditioned tent, 3 hot meals with fruit and blessed food, all their religious needs met, radio, tv, dvd player, library, an actual education taught by their own people (that includes things like math, arabic, english and no not history). Yes these people were so abused”

We are only the bad guys if we don’ weed out the bad guys

“If the treatment was as good as this person says, clearly we should WANT these photos released. Great advert for our compassion”
Yes, we should see all the photos including all the good things that we have done in Iraq that the media hasn’t shown. As well as the quarters provided the terrorist detainees. Showing only the photos of detainees that were abused by our soldiers, soldiers who were punished by the way, would only harm the morale and image of the US and the vast majority of soldiers who faced the enemy and are about to face him again. For what purpose? Political sniping?

Fran …Would you break a law to save human lives?

“Bush and Cheney were all about themselves and the riches they can pile up while in office.”
What riches did they pile up in office?

If some of you never saw the propaganda blitz of the “good” we’ve done in Iraq, you haven’t been paying much attention.

Mark Thomas – Have you been to Iraq or actually know what good has been accomplished, or are you just saying that to get attention?

WHO IS LYNN CHENEY AND WHY SHOULD WE CARE IF SHE IS FURIOUS ABOUT ANYTHING?

“Nah, by 2012 Obama will be one of the least popular men in the entire country” I’ll take that bet. Just as I took the one about him not having a chance of getting into the White house.

Hmm. Releasing these photographs will make Al Qaeda not like us? Somehow I think you Republicans are missing something.

Sigmonde, can we get this clear. Were these actions justified or not? If not, do you accept that if the high command was aware of them they should be prosecuted?

Sigmonde, torture rarely gets good information. Most people in the military know that. It certainly does harden the enemy in his resolve against you though.

“sigmonde is missing the point” Reading down this thread, it does appear to be his specialty. One moment he is saying torture is justified. The next he is saying it is not and we should not show the pictures. I am having a hard time seeing consistency here.

Stanley says the Pesidents approval rating is high high high; and I agree with him but God forbid if we have another 9/11. All of you that support the President on how he’s handling all this terrorists situations will be the first to turn on him and Good Ole Stanley will lead the charge. This be nice to our enemies works only in movies and the naive minds of liberals. Keep in mind he already extended a friendly hand to the leaders of Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea. He got his hand slapped back each time

Does Liz Cheney get paid by her daddy to parrot his talking points???

” This be nice to our enemies works only in movies and the naive minds of liberals.” No. Liberals are the ones who realize the reason we are fighting these enemies is we do not stand for what they stand for. When we do we’ll have no reason to fight them. We don’t do what we call other people war criminals for doing.

“One moment he is saying torture is justified. The next he is saying it is not and we should not show the pictures.”
You may have a reading comprehension problem. You also don’t know what you are talking about. The pictures show abuses, not torture, of detainees by our soldiers, all of whom have been tried and punished. I have never said torture is justified. If you are going to quote me, post my quote. Thanks

You asked for a quote:
sigmonde: “Then you would agree that someone in their right mind would break the law and use torture to save lives?”
No. I would not. Would you.

“sigmonde..I hate to burst your bubble but Mr Cheney admitted on the cbs face the nation show on sunday that President Bush signed off on these techniques..
He said Bush signed off on the enhanced interrogations. The abuses and the photos are a different matter. Those were not torture issues- they were detainees “abused” by guards, all of whom were tried and punished. No one ordered the abuses. Why don’t you do more research so you have better information before commenting.?

The Cheneys are not a family, they’re a cult. And you know what this cult fights for with a passion, you know what issue they will go to the wall for — the right to torture beyond the limits of the Geneva Convention. It’s very telling that this is what really fires up these people.

“You asked for a quote:
sigmonde: “Then you would agree that someone in their right mind would break the law and use torture to save lives?”
No. I would not. Would you.”
Hawk…The question was posed to poster tenlightened. If your read his response, you will see that he is the one who agrees that torture would be justified. For me, I do not believe waterboarding is torture and I would not hesitate to use it, if it meant saving lives.

sogjmonde,
You asked if he would agree. Agree with whom?
So you’d have no objection to photographs of “non-torture” waterboarding being released, and you do not think they would increase support for Al Qaeda?

sigmonde….it starts at the top and works it way down….why wouldn’t it be okay if the president says so….that is the issue…you don’t get the connection??

Liz Cheney is defending her father breaking international laws, domestic laws and treaties against torture. He is a war criminal period. Also isn’t it interesting that these people that were so offended by Wanda Skyes wishing kidney failure on Rush are the same ones that have no problem calling our President an treasonous , terrorist lover. What a pieces of work this “lady” and her daddy are. Hypocrites!

“Liz Cheney is defending her father breaking international laws, domestic laws and treaties against torture. He is a war criminal period.”
Is Obama a war criminal for killing scores of innocent women and children in Afghanistan and Pakistan with multiple drone strikes since he took office? Just curious.

sigmonde….it starts at the top and works it way down….why wouldn’t it be okay if the president says so….that is the issue…you don’t get the connection??
How would you know how it works? What is your experience with the military or chain of command?

sigmonde…oh I love this argument…what do you know about it??

What purpose is served by the ACLU in stirring up this controversy again?
My son is on his way to Iraq and I can’t think of one single reason for the ACLU’s actions, certainly not one purpose worth an American’s life.
Obama’s Justice Dept is a farce. There’s no justice in serving the fanatics at home while our soldiers confront the fanatics abroad.

I love this torture discussion and Cheneys a lot!!! I do not think many centrists or swing voters are big fans or torture or Cheney the Torturer. There are people who are but they vote republican anyway. That includes that pro-torture guy called Lieberman.

Many of your posters use the word torture a lot, because it is obvious that the Obama administration is puffing up its own reputation by discrediting the Bush Administration. I hope that Obama is as ruthless with our enemies as he is our friends.

Chris. Keep hating man. Most Americans are praying that Obama can repair most of the damage done to this country by the previous administration. There are a few haters in this country that want him to fail. I pray for success because that means that we all prosper.

Jenn: “Nah, by 2012 Obama will be one of the least popular men in the entire country”
M Whietter: “I’ll take that bet. Just as I took the one about him not having a chance of getting into the White house.”
With a $750 million campaign, I could get my pet gerbil into the White House.

I totally agree with Liz Cheney that the idiots in this administration are going to be responsible for the deaths of mnany American soldiers if they are stupid enough to release hundreds of photo’s showing Muslims being “humiliated.” They terrorists used the Abu Ghraib photo’s as recruitment material for suicide bombers. Whose side are these jerks on, anyway???

It’s so obvious that the Cheneys are freaking out that our former VP is going down. They know it and we know it. They’re trying to change history and reality by talking his despicable acts away. Ain’t going to happen.

“Outside of watching too many episodes of “24″ give me one historical example where torture has been shown to have saved lives?”
The CIA stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) — including the use of waterboarding — caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.
Is there any eveidence of that? Or is that something that they are saying to make themselves feel better. It’s easy to say… These enhanced techniques stopped an attack in L.A… but did they catch people getting ready to attack L.A.? Did they find any bombs in L.A.?
Next they might be saying that they prevented an attack in Sarasota… If they don’t have to present proof… they could be saying that they prevented attacks everywhere…

First off Liz american soldiers are not the ones in the photos doing these things. Secondly you are only saying these things jumping up and yelling troops troops troops to get people to sympathy for your father. You want to hide the truth of his crimes. You want the evidence not to come out. If you were to do that in a criminal trial in the US you would be breaking the law. But you republicans in power belive that you are somehow above the law. That you are beyond it. Well you arent and your father is going to have to suffer the shame of what he has done.

I strongly agree with the statement … We are Americans… We don’t torture. It does not matter whether torture worked or did not work. The point is the Constitution was violated & International laws were broken.
We do not torture, and torture is a crime, not a method. If you want to work for a government and want to torture someone, you need to find another country. Government employees take an oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution. If you are a government official and torture someone, you have failed your oath to defend the U.S. Constitution and you have broken the law. We do not need or want people working in our government that conducted torture.
There is no way anyone can respect the CIA if it rewards torture interrogators with their job. Abscense of morality in any government agency will not result in respect, ether now or in the future. This controversy is not about legal opinions & the CIA its about the CYA mentality of the Bush Administration.
At the Nuremberg trials in 1946, the U.S., England, and France decided that just taking orders is not excuse for torture. Concentration Camp commander’s defended their actions as just taking orders. No doubt Nazi lawyers declared their actions both necessary and legal under German Third Reicht Law. At Nuremberg in 1946, the decision by the U.S., France, and England was unanimous, that a person is responsible for their own actions. No orders or shadow legality is a defense against a complete loss of morality. The trials at Nuremberg set the standard. Just taking orders does not give anyone, not even an American, the right to torture another person . We do not want our country to have Nazi morality standards.
I hope we still have today as much moral strength as our fathers that fought WWII to save our country and save our Constitution. If government officials today trash our Constitution to gain immediate ends, then we have lost any meaningful difference between our enemies and ourselves.
We are America, and We don’t torture. Our Constitution and our morality are worth far more than any information obtained from torture. The ends do not justify the means.
We are Americans, and We don’t torture. NO IF ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT ! See title 18 sec. 241 & 242 if you do torture, this is what you can expect from the law.
Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241
Conspiracy Against Rights
This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same).
It further makes it unlawful for two or more persons to go in disguise on the highway or on the premises of another with the intent to prevent or hinder his/her free exercise or enjoyment of any rights so secured.
Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to ten years, or both; and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years, or for life, or may be sentenced to death.
——————————————————————————–
Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law
This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.
This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.
Acts under “color of any law” include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under “color of any law,” the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.
Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Releasing these photos will only embolden the terrorists and fan their anti-American fervor. Those who agree with releasing them – apparently attributable to their hatred of Bush/Cheney – need to realize that every American will be impacted by the result.
Posted by: marylou | May 12, 2009 3:49:22 PM
_______________________________________
and that too will be attributed to Bush/Cheney as they are the ones who failed America and the World. The truth can’t be hidden under the guise of “safety”.

She is as crazy as her dad….

Do we relly care what Liz Cheney thinks?

“As ordered by a judge” is the part that stands out to me. The main person rooting for the terrorists at this point is her father. He can’t wait for something to happen.

While we’re at it, why don’t we release the videos of Obama’s ordered executions of three teenage Pirates who were in US Custody (in a lifeboat tethered to a U.S. Warship)?
To not be hypocritical, Leftists must admit that Obama’s execution order is far worse than subjecting a few mass murderers to temporary discomfort.
Where is the outrage over this gross violation of international law, the Geneva Convention, Pirate’s Habeas Corpus, etc. and the fact Obama created many more violent Pirates with his actions?

“Releasing these photos will only embolden the terrorists and fan their anti-American fervor”—-uhhhh, actually, we’re seeing the exact opposite. The approval rating of the US in muslim countries has gone up by more than four fold. This is part of cleaning house, this is a show of what do NOT do anymore, what we do NOT stand for. We do NOT torture people, treat them like animals, desecrate their stupid religion. It’s easy to say the US is having a holy war when interrogation tecquniques include flushing the Koran down the toilet. Hearing about desecrating the Koran is a great way to embolden terrorists and get them to join to fight us. Hearing that we threw out hte bums who did that, that we’re showing the evils that regime did, that we are in a new error of being decent does much to make recruiting for AQ harder. And surveys show it’s working. Bush and cheney tried to improve our approval rating in the middle east. didn’t work. Kept getting lower. NOW it’s finally going up. Obama is, once again, accomplishing what Cheney wished he could do. sour grapes.

To not be hypocritical, Leftists must admit that Obama’s execution order is far worse than subjecting a few mass murderers to temporary discomfort——Asolutely not. First- there was no ambiguity that the people in that boat were pirates and they had a gun to the back of a US sailor’s head with his life in imminent danger. killing them saved an American’s life. I think it was fabulous Obama gave the shoot to kill order. Second – PLENTY of these ‘terrorists’ were just guys who picked up a gun because they better or hte taliban will kill them. SOme of them were terrorists who would go out of the way to kill anyone. Some of them are harmless. All lumped in a prison with no charges, no trials, no future in limbo with more than a few cases crawling up the courts challenging the legality of it all. Fact is, soon those cases will be heard by the highest and given the Geneva conventions, we do not have a leg to stand on and unless we have REAL sentences from REAL legal trials, they will all go free. This is a mess, lazy arse mess the bush adminstartion just NEVER cleaned up, as if imagining that no families of the prisoners would hire lawyers and challenge it and maybe it wont happen. Well it did. and it’s illegal and need resolving and the photos are again, the legal system in use – freedom of information act – The ACLU is asking for them, Obama has to give them. See, we’re a country of laws, and sooner or later you need to pay the piper. Cheney and bush did LOTS of illegal things that in no way made us more free, in fact, they were great recruitment tools and Obama, thankfully, is dismantling them and getting our soul back.

GREAT POINT Rick!!!!!! I haven’t heard a peep out of the hateful Left on Obama’s actions–He Should be Impeached for what he did to those poor young men…There is no proof Obama’s actions saved the Captain’s life! Where is the media on this one?:
“While we’re at it, why don’t we release the videos of Obama’s ordered executions of three teenage Pirates who were in US Custody (in a lifeboat tethered to a U.S. Warship)?
To not be hypocritical, Leftists must admit that Obama’s execution order is far worse than subjecting a few mass murderers to temporary discomfort.
Where is the outrage over this gross violation of international law, the Geneva Convention, Pirate’s Habeas Corpus, etc. and the fact Obama created many more violent Pirates with his actions?”

You people need to get off this partisan politics and start looking out for the country. This stupid, constant wrangling is boring! All the politicians in Washington are corrupt, greedy, self-serving morons. You are the pawns and don’t even know it.

Why would any of us care what Liz Cheney thinks about anything? Her father is the most arrogant, disgusting political creature this country has seen in generations. Aside from him, which is not a bonus, she is a political nobody with a perspective contrary to what America is about.

Hey, Liz, what part of “AS ORDERED BY
A JUDGE” do you not understand?

yeah, yeah, yeah, who gave the Afghanistans and Iraqis weapons?

GO HOME LIZ, GO DO THE WASHING, IRONING & FOLDING. APPLE DOES NOT FALL TOO FAR FROM THE TREE, IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF YOU HAVE A CAREER CHANGE.

A buffalo chip off the old blockhead.
.
You gotta love the Cheney family… not a single one has ever had the courage or patriotism to don a uniform… but they really love to put on their war face.

Liberals have not been able to tell one truth since 2002. The lies about just about anything Bush did or said, that they spout are ridiculous, and unfounded.
They’re hell bent on ruining this great country and that sentiment exists and is alive in the Obama administration. His apology tour of the world, proves that he just doesn’t get it.
You guys won, but can’t be nice about ANYthing. Try to get over your bad selves, and stop hating Bush and Cheney so much. You are the haters, not the right wingers.

A buffalo chip off the old blockhead.
.
“You gotta love the Cheney family… not a single one has ever had the courage or patriotism to don a uniform… but they really love to put on their war face.”
Can we see Obama, Pelosi, or Biden’s service records then? Oh yeah, they did not have the courage of their convictions to wear the uniform, too honorable of a profession for them.

Cheney should make note – do not publicly trash the person you’re expecting to coverup your illegal activity.

Blab, blab, blab! All of you should put a sock in it. When are you going to “get” it? It is citizens against politicians! ALL OF THEM! Look at the news about the latest PM corruption in England–same thing there.

I am all for waterboarding if it got the information they needed to protect us (THE AMERICAN PEOPLE)!! None of the officers that did this deed should be punished! they were doing there job, what they were told to do and it probably worked very well.

I just can’t believe Liz dared to voice her own personal views. Doesn’t she realize that only the left owns the right to express dissent? Everyone else needs to sit down, shut up, and pay their taxes to fund Obama’s Utopia.

CNO: while you are standing on the shores of another country, securing land rights and access to another countries resources for corporations to fill their pockets… millions are standing on our shores, on our land defending our country from tyranny from within. we will not receive medals or monuments, but daily we wake and stand for the same cause that millions stood for hundreds of years ago. to preserve the essence that led to lady liberty holding firmly her light of liberty, truth and justice!!!

Bush & Cheney and republicans on torture
It was the right thing to do.
But by all means let’s keep it secret.
gotta love those true ‘convictions’ of the ‘right’

In July 2007, the last of 500 METRIC TONS OF YELLOW CAKE WAS safely shipped from Irag to Canada. The US News Media did not report any of this to make it appear that the Bush administration was wrong on invading IRAQ. For you mental genuises, Yellow Cake is one of the ingredients to make nuclear grade uranium to CREATE NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Thus your WMD’s. Why wasn’t this reported by the US new media, while it was certainly getting much news media attention form the Canadian and British News Media. Along with the fact that as of December 2008, there were only 1500 insurgents left in IRAQ as the surge that was instituted earlier in the year was in fact the reason that we won the IRAQI war as reported by the London TImes?

I’m sick of listening to all of this whining. Give the guy a break… The man hasn’t even been in office 6 months yet. I may not agree with all of his views but at least the man is trying to make some desparately needed changes. People want to complain about the possible release of these pictures. Pictures that were taken of our soldiers following orders from a tyranical, vindictive mama’s boy on a power trip and his cranky, old, NRA card carrying sidekick. We need to show that we are better than those terrorist SOB’s… the “we have ways of making you talk” days are over.
So, for all you Obama haters… If you don’t like it here, the rest of us true Americans could really use the break from listening to your incoherent, asinine babblings. The border doors swing both ways and don’t let the door hit you were the good lord split you…

“While we’re at it, why don’t we release the videos of Obama’s ordered executions of three teenage Pirates who were in US Custody (in a lifeboat tethered to a U.S. Warship)?
To not be hypocritical, Leftists must admit that Obama’s execution order is far worse than subjecting a few mass murderers to temporary discomfort.
Where is the outrage over this gross violation of international law, the Geneva Convention, Pirate’s Habeas Corpus, etc. and the fact Obama created many more violent Pirates with his actions?”
As anticipated, the Liberal Hypocrisy on this issue is STUNNING!

“In July 2007, the last of 500 METRIC TONS OF YELLOW CAKE WAS safely shipped from Irag to Canada. The US News Media did not report any of this to make it appear that the Bush administration was wrong on invading IRAQ. For you mental genuises, Yellow Cake is one of the ingredients to make nuclear grade uranium to CREATE NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Thus your WMD’s.”
The yellowcake was from the 80′s and there were no WMD’s.

1. Torture does bot work. The interrogated doesn’t tell the TRUTH, in more the 80 % of the cases, that’s the problem. He confesses everything to avoid pain.
2. They totured, that is a fact.
3. A court decision is a court decision!
4. the soldier r in danger, but because they tortured and NOT because they took pictures of it.
5. time to imprison those who ordered torture. NOW!
4.

The entire Cheney family should be detained without recourse and waterboarded over 280 times…