Sitting Alongside President Abbas, President Obama Pushes Israel on Settlements, Two-State Solution

I think that Isreal is and always will be a state. My question is how can they divide Jerusalem when many people from eastern Jerusalem have tried to attack and bomb schools. If they give eastern Jerusalem to Abbas the Isrealis will be attacked making the problem worse than before. However, it is right to acknowledge Abbas as someone who has done rigth by the Palestinians and Isrealis. I wonder if the West Bank could be recognized as a state but not Gaza due to Hamas? Reward the good behavior punish the bad.

Jeff – Hopefully if there is an agreement at some point, it would be nice to see Jerusalem a neutral zone. It’s the holy city to many religions. Unfortunately we really can not leave out Hamas. We called for democratic elections. How can we now say, oh, we won’t deal with you because we don’t like who you elected. Let’s be honest, the bad behavior has taken place on both sides.

“Wow, we actually have a President. I always thought Presidents were inarticulate fools with blank stares.”
Nope they’re inarticulate fools with blank stares and a propensity to bow to foreign heads of state who make themselves appear smart by reading off a teleprompter.

Johnq – Really? What makes you say that? Because we are actually talking with them, instead of rubber stamping what Israel does? That has worked so well in the past! I think there can be common ground found, give it a chance.

“Abbas suggested that if “the Israelis will withdraw from all occupied Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese land, the Arab world will be (ready to) have normal relationships with the state of Israel.”
“But the notion that Netanyahu would ever withdraw from all the land Mr. Abbas considers Palestinian, Syrian, and Lebanese – some of which is considers vital for Israeli national security — is unlikely indeed.”
First of all, someone should carefully proofread the stuff in Tapper’s article before it is posted.
Second of all, way to take sides and editorialize whoever wrote this piece.
So, it’s ‘unlikely’ Israel will give back the lands it has occupied in Palestine, Syria and Lebanon – who says?
Who gave you the right to attribute this self-righteous belligerence to Israel?
And what right does Israel have to keep this occupied land of other countries and pretend they’re interested in peace?
You seem to justify this type of corrupt and unworkable status quo because anything else is ‘unlikely’.
Perhaps it would be best if you limited yourself to reporting.

BO is living in la la land… of course the Palestinians are going to say all the right things to his face… they want more American taxpayer dollars… HEY ABC… how much did BO promise to give him..????? we all know peace isnt FREE….. they know how to play the game… BO is a novice….. hehehehaha…. what a fool he is

This is NOT really a good thing. But is is expected. I’m afraid that anyone who splits that land is going to suffer for it, and NOT by the hand of man.

“Stop with the petty!”
Try telling that to Eric or I will consider that a personal attack and will deal with it in the appropriate matter to the appropriate people.

There is no possible way a two state solution can work in the long run. What do you think, Israel and Palestine will remain with the same population for ever?.. Israel is tiny, and the west bank is smaller still. More war will break out later, and the damage will be greater. You all know its not just the land, Arab and Palestine want Israel gone period and will stop at nothing to achieve that end. Almost ever country has acquired the land they have by war. It has never been giving away by any other country so why should Israel give anyone any land at all?.. nobody else does?.. Libia can give the palestinians land, Jordan can too… its not about them having a country, its about them taking Israels land. In fact, It never was the palestinians land in the first place. 500 years ago there wasn’t even a palestinian alive. Israel has been around for 5 thousand years. Judea … read history 101 people… once again, its not about some Islamic Arab people having a country, its about taking it from G-ds chosen people just to hurt them.

SChaos1701 – “Stop with the petty!”
Try telling that to Eric or I will consider that a personal attack and will deal with it in the appropriate matter to the appropriate people.
Eric – Wow, we actually have a President. I always thought Presidents were inarticulate fools with blank stares.
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So because I confront you with words from you guys mouth, you feel the need to threaten and hold me responsible for another posters post? Shame on you! Go ahead, run and tell!

SChaos1701 – By the way, what did Eric say that got you knickers in a twist? Nothing worse than what came from you, or is it when your confronted with facts you can’t deal. Go ahead, run and tell!

Proposing segregation on religious lines seems to be a strange solution. Government sponsored prejudices are not acceptable in secular democracies. Israel is a “Jewish” state because the Palestinians abdicated significant political authority in the democratic process. Then demanded the destruction of the remaining authority. A two state solution is proposed since there is such a vehement hatred of the political influence of the Jews and there is no indication that the Palestinians have a stomach for sharing political power in the region. The Jewish people are very concerned that a Palestinian state would put a hostile power at their throats. The correct way to have done this is to convince the Palestinians to cooperatively re-engage in the political affairs of the nation of Israel. Perhaps changing the name from Israel to a more neutral name would appease all parties.

MNM – Without berating or demeaning me, I ask an honest question and would appreciate an honest answer. Honestly I’m not sure, did the Palestinians live there during this time? It seems, the British took liberties with other peoples land. Land that was not “theirs” to give. Honestly just trying to understand. I used to work at one of the largest JCC’s on the east coast. I heard everything from all Palestinians need to die, to (from ultra orthadox rabbis say) this is not right. Any info is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

MNM – Without berating or demeaning me, I ask an honest question and would appreciate an honest answer. Honestly I’m not sure, did the Palestinians live there during this time? It seems, the British took liberties with other peoples land. Land that was not “theirs” to give. Honestly just trying to understand. I used to work at one of the largest JCC’s on the east coast. I heard everything from all Palestinians need to die, to (from ultra orthadox rabbis say) this is not right. Any info is appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Try the truth | May 28, 2009 10:12:24 PM
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The population was not referred to as Palestinians. There were of course various groups although the land was always sparsely populated, they were generally referred to by another name.
For example, jews have always been there, and run off, but could also have been referred to as Palestinians when the umbrella name covered the entire region.
The origin of the group, now calling themselves “Palestinians” is the Yassar Arafat terrorist group.
Arafat was outraged at the presence of jews in the region.
This terrorist group planted themselves in the region and made their goal ousting the jews.
There was one agreement framework when Clinton was President in which Israel agreed to every single demand of Arafat in return for Peace.
After getting everything he wanted Arafat walked away and declared an “infitada” (war).
He never wanted peace he wanted work toward getting rid of jews and Israel.
I am glad you asked because the history is so important, and so misunderstood today…….

it is also in our interest to preserve Israel’s right to exist in peace. Why do the Palestinians not have the same right?
You don’t have to believe me – go there yourself and look at what’s going on.
Posted by: MIguy | May 28, 2009 10:12:18 PM
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You do understand it is the Palestinians who won’t allow Peace. They could stop moving weapons and arms in for their non stop, and unreported attacks on Israel and borders would slowly open.
If Israel laid down it’s arms it would be wiped off the face of the earth…. but
If the terrorists/Palestinians lay down their arms there would be peace on earth!
Israelis don’t begrudge the existence of the Palestinians, they do begrudge those that still today regularly attack and send assault rockets into Israeli territory.

Try the truth: Do not believe what you read here. I would suggest doing a Google search on “population of palestinians versus israelis”. The first site that comes up on procon dot org will be very useful for you.
Posted by: MIguy | May 28, 2009 10:26:50 PM
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I checked your reference because I too want only the truth and am puzzled at your point.
What exactly did you mean?
I don’t see a difference in their information???
Are you referring to the parts where Arafat is slowly legitimized to try to get him to stop killing people, which didn’t work too well?
Are you referring to the UN partition which subdivided the Balfor treaty land and actually subtracted from the jewish land?
What do you mean?

I am glad we are taking a stronger tone towards Israel. These settlers are a bunch of punks. The checkpoints and walls within the Palestinian areas need to come down. The Palestinians need to get out of the West Bank and head west to Israel. The Israelis should also stop diverting the Jordan’s water to their illegal settlements while leaving the Palestinian areas parched. Israel needs to come to their senses. The only country that accepts Israel’s cruelty is us. This cruelty was up at the top of Bin Laden’s list for reasons he gave for attacking us.

We’ve got to give Iran a way out of this or we’ll never have peace, especially if Israel attacks Iran.
Posted by: Skip | May 28, 2009 10:31:54 PM
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I am not trying to argue, but I believe that they have quietly accepted a nuclear Iran, unfortunately it is attributed to un-named white house sources, so we will have to see.
Iran does not want an out, Ahmadinejad wants to obliterate Israel and reiterated that only 2 weeks ago, as he often has before. Israel cannot afford to not attack. Again we will have to see.
Leon Panetta did not go to Israel to threaten them, and demand they not attack Iran, ( a threat that was leaked and well documented) if Obama did not believe Iran will shortly have nukes.
So again, we will have to see.
I cannot imagine what an out for Iran would look like other than outright disarming.
There is no out that includes a nuclear Iran.

MNM – So you know, I do have friends on both sides, it’s amazing when we do, say Super Bowl. There are no differences! I just make sure everything we eat is kosher and a good time is had by all. I don’t get too much into this with my friends do to the “high intensity feelings on both sides” To me the Governments of both are not serving their people well. They need to listen to them. Am I making sense?

Do you believe that a halt to the settlements might help? Heck you allow people to live in an area, then displace them, that would annoy me. Also, in your honest opinion, what will it take to bring peace? You seen to know more than many on this thread. Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Try the truth | May 28, 2009 10:35:28 PM
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I don’t think that the criteria for peace are an attempt to actually live side by side with Israel.
Twice before Israel gave up land and the terrorists moved the guns closer.
Israel cannot afford to give up another square inch with the wolves at the door now.
The only reason there is not even more violence against Israel is the wall and the closed border crossing, which of course cause humanitarian issues.
I look at it this way.
My neighbor desperately needs water to live, but has to come through my property to transfer the water.
Oh, and by the way, he might kill a couple of my kids on the way, but it wouldn’t be considered humanitarian if I did not let him get the water through, dead kids or not.
So what would you do. Let them take the water and give up your kids, or say,,, no way. If you want the water you lay down the guns first..
Or would you give up your house bit by bit, as the guns come closer to your sleeping kids and if you look away, they get killed anyway.
The Israelis are in an untenable position. They have a right to protect their citizens. They don’t want to have anyone do without necessary supplies. But if the Palestinian leaders want the supplies they need to lay down their arms. The fact that their weapons are more important to them than humanitarian needs of their population tells me that their priorities continue to be the destruction of Israel, not peace,,,,even if they stop building in the settlements.

Iran wants to obliterate US, folks. The sooner you see that fact, the better. The Idiot-in-Chief lives in la-la land.

The UN DID NOT GIVE Israel to the jews.
Balfour agreement,
MNM
oh, so it was the British, well that makes all the difference then…..

tanarg- yes they do but don’t have the weapons to do it!

Good night people, have an early day tomorrow, lost time due to the rain here.We may not agree on the details, but as long as we stick to facts, I really believe all of us want to move forward, and do better!

I don’t think that the fact that just 1 U.S. sub, can destroy most countries in the world is lost on potential adversaries like Iran or N. Korea or anyone else for that matter.

He’s all talk. He says that stuff because it scores PR points. Now I know that Israel won’t believe that but they have to show restraint.
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With a grain of salt I think our intelligence sources AND the UN put his at less than 6 months from a fully weaponized nuke missile.
I think the world thought Hitler was full of bluster, or that he wouldn’t really do something like that because it was so unimaginable.
Ahmadinejad has spent years declaring this goal. I take him at his word and Israel cannot afford to call it bluster when every single day Ahmadinejad takes steps to achieve his goal.
Also, some of the original Jimmy Carter era American Embassy in tehran hostages have identified Ahmadinejad as one of the most violent of their captors. The media squashed this story, but occasionally one of the survivors appears somewhere and tv and talks about it. They have shown side by side photo’s and it sure as heck looks like him.
This is not a guy who settles for the bluster and sidelines. He is dangerous.
I don’t believe being nice to someone like this accomplishes anything. Not that I am advocating being antagonistic either, but the carrot-stick thing doesn’t work because just as with Sadaam and Oil for Food, there is so much corruption and getting around the sanctions in the mideast especially that there is no weight to the sanctions.

MNM
with all due respect to your views, do you really think that Hitler’s Germany, and the world in the 30′s is comparable to 2009 Mid-East tensions with Iran, US, Israel?

Ahmadinejad is a puppet. That country is still run by the religious leaders and after Obama’s address to the Iranian people [called part of the apology tour by the right-wing I must add] their Ayatollah hinted [I don't have the exact quote] that they might recognize Israel’s right to exist under the right conditions which I consider to be an amazing concession on their part. They know that building nukes is risky but they think they’ve got nothing to lose, they might be attacked either way. We have to convince them otherwise.

Just a comment on talking about Middle Eastern history, especially the history of the complex region currently made up of Israel and Palestine: it is not simple or easy. It is best not to pretend that answers are clear and unambiguous.
While MNM offered a fairly useful timeline in a comment early on, it should be pointed out that relying on Wikipedia (as MNM suggested another commentor do) is not a good idea on such a controversial topic– Wikipedia allows anyone to post and the material on such a subject is seldom impartially presented, even if it appears to be so.
Also, deciding how far back in time to go to trace the conflict between claimants of that land is another difficulty. MNM started his/her timeline with the Seljuk Turks’s conquest of Jerusalem in the eleventh century. But conflicts over the land have been going on much longer than that and that starting point is arbitrary at best.
Just look at the piece of land in Jerusalem known as the Temple Mount, where the Wailing Wall is all that is left of the Temple of Jerusalem and where the Muslims have built the al-Aqsa mosque. it is the holiest site in Judaism and was so when the Muslims built the mosque and the DOme of the Rock on the site. The two religions have been contending over the site ever after. ANd that’s just one piece of land in one city.
I just take issue with people using history selectively to bolster their own claims about this conflict, or any other current event with long historical roots, such as the conflict over Kashmir.

MNM – Vote Ron Paul in 2012! Cheers!

What the world needs is another failed terrorist state in the Middle-East. I guess there aren’t enough failed states in the region, hence the need for another one, Palestine.
A Palestinian state would just be a bigger Gaza. Hamas would take over in a matter of days. Obama sits and talks with a man who has NO support among his own people, the leader of a faction that is world-reknowned for corruption, mismanagement, & terrorism, that has built no gov’t. institutions (that function), that has done absolutely nothing to build an economy – an economy that relies almost entirely on foreign aid from Western suckers.
Gaza is run by Hamas – an Iranian proxy.
Lebanon is about to be taken over by Hezbollah, another Iranian proxy. Syria is part of the axis of evil – a state sponsor of terrorism that allows jihadis to enter Iraq & kill Americans.
Iran is going full speed ahead with it’s nuclear program – they’re laughing at Obama & his Jimmy Carter foreign policy.
So, by all means, let’s push for another terror state in the Middle-East.

Ralph Levy . .. .
You may be right about the British Mandate, but that just proves the point that the state of Israel was imposed upon the arabs by outside and largely white, western governments.

Danita – Below are a few ”details” to consider.
Israel will not divide Jerusalem.
There will be no return to the pre-1967 armistice line (the Green Line).
There will be no ”right of return” of phoney refugees, not even one.
Israel will maintain control of the Jordan Valley for security reasons.
There can be no ”link” between Gaza & the West Bank through Israeli territory.
The Palestinians must recognize, publically & unequivocally, that Israel is the nation of the Jewish people.
There must be an end to all anti-Semitic propaganda & incitement in schools, media, political speeches, etc.
Israel will not cede the Golan to Syria, ever.
When Palestinians accept the above, perhaps there might be something to talk about.
That’s certainly not the case at present.

Speaking of Wiki….check out the demarcation of the West Bank. Under the circumstances, I would probably launch rockets too. Maybe we should also arm the Palestinians in order to deter Israel’s cruelty.

As I say.. the only thing.. that Iran and Israel do agree upon..
Both have a one state plan.

I doubt that the POTUS is ready for a real showdown with the Nation of Israel or the State of Israel… he can’t afford this politically..

As complete a timeline as I can find:
A.D. Ruler *
1273 BCE Israel Conquest of Canaan ** under Joshua,
423 BCE Iranian Babylon invades and destroys First Temple [Persian empire was based in modern day Iran]
371 BCE Israel
Iranian King Cyrus issued decree to restore Jewish Nation
312 BCE Israel
Greek Battle of Gaza; Seleucus controls Syria and Babylonia [Seleucid empire was based in Macedonia, northern Greece]
285-246 BCE Israel
Egyptian Rule of Ptolemy II
199 BCE Israel
Greek Seleucid monarchy occupies Judea **
175 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Antiochus Epiphanes came to throne in Syria
168 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Pagan idol set up in Temple
165 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Macabean Revolt, beginning of Hasmonean dynasty
142 BCE Israel Shimon rules and gains Judean indepence
135-104 BCE Israel Rule of Yochanan Hyrkanus
104-103 BCE Israel Rule of Yehudah Aristobulus
103-76 BCE Israel Rule of Alexander Yannai
76-66 BCE Israel Rule of Salome Alexandra
63 BCE Israel
Roman Civil War: Hyrkanus vs. Aristobulus. Pompey intervenes, Conquest of Jerusalem by Pompey, Judea becomes Roman Vassal.
47 BCE Israel
Roman Caesar appoints Antipater ruler of Judea
70 Roman The Romans conquer Jerusalem
132-136 Roman Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba; final defeat of Judah and loss of political sovereignty, rename area to “Palestine” **
351 Roman Jewish revolt to end foreign rule; Roman Empire adopts Christianity.
395 Turkish Palestine part of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, still called Judea or Judah.
438 Turkish Empress Eudocia allows Jews back to Temple site, misinterpreted by Jews as return to nationhood.
614 Iran Persian conquest under Chosroes (with the support of a Jewish army).
628 Turkish “Palestine” reconquered by the Byzantines
633-637 Syrian Arab conquest; shortly afterward, attempt by Jews to restore their nation.
639 Syrian Muawiyah Arab governor.
660 Syrian Muawiyah is made the first Omayyad Caliph of Damascus.
661 Syrian Murder of Ali; Omayyad Dynasty begins.
750 Iraq Last Omayyad Caliph defeated; reign of the Abbassid Caliphs of Baghdad (Persian, Turk, Circassian, Kurd).
878 Egyptian Ahmad, b. Tulun, a Turkish general and governor of Egypt, conquers Palestine; reign of the Tulunides (Turks).
904 Iraq The Abbassids of Baghdad reconquer Palestine.
906 Carmathians Inroads of the Carmathians.
934 Egyptian The Egyptian lkhshidi princes conquer Palestine; their reign begins.
969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem’s population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt’s Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
1917-1918 British Balfour Declaration granting “Jewish Homeland” internationally approved.
1920 British British (pre-Mandate) civil administration; Turkish sovereignty renounced, treaty includes Balfour Declaration
1922 British Palestine Mandate; Jewish National Home confirmed.
1923 British Palestine Mandate comes into operation.
1923 British Seventy-five percent of Palestine is set aside as an independent Arab “Palestinian” state, Transiordan.
1925 British Hebrew University of Jerusalem opened.
1927 British High Commissioners receive Commission for Transjordan.
1929 British Arab revolt.
1936-1939 British Arab revolt and civil war.
1946 British Establishment of Arab state of Transiordan.
1948 Israel End of Mandate for Palestine; establishment of State of Israel; Arab-Jewish war.
1948 Israel Eastern Palestine-Transjordan-.occupies the West Bank area of Western Palestine, becomes “Jordan,” constituting over eighty percent of Palestine.

“Palestinians” already have their own state, it’s called Jordan.

Danita: So straight smears are okay as long as you dont’ say anything of substance?
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Oh, please. Look at the corruption, the lies, and the actions. I’m not going to spoonfeed you the news — it’s online for all to see. He wasn’t lying about wanting to change our country fundamentally, though. His agenda is truly the destruction of America. Listen again to his stump speeches. He’s a despot. A fascist. A madman.

Maybe someone can explain the difference between Gaza City and occupied Warsaw Poland (1939-44?)…

Who needs to be protected?
Posted by: danita | May 29, 2009 2:33:54 PM

If it is Israel’s fault that they do not give zoning administration and double-entry accounting counseling to the popular leadership of Palestine, it is our fault that we do not provide that counseling to the popular leader of Iran.

I think Israel has a moral responsibility to total up the cost, in the human lives and treasures of their and other’s countries, of this stubborn effort to defend a possibly mythical right or claim since 1948(?) This a strange anomoly for a country that is all about religion and the love of man! It seems that, when it comes to fellow men of conflicting feelings. The risk of going to my grave with the deaths of many human beings on my hands as a result of some specious, self-serving and myopic belief-theory would be untenable. jalemn