White House Facing Rebellion on Hill on Plan for Detainees (or Lack Thereof)

Clear example of making a decision to appease a political base instead of actually thinking it through and understanding the situation. But of course, he is the smartest President ever and it certainly is showing. What a great intellectual, he’s thought of everything.

“White House Facing Rebellion on Hill on Plan for Detainees (or Lack Thereof)”
Lack of indeed.
Obama is big on ideas but short on experience and ignorant of reality.
I say release them at Sidwell!

Alright.. I finally figured this one out.. it was so obvious.. this would mike a great reality tv show..
Jon and Kate Plus 248..

I think Jon Stewart had the best segment on this topic, with CSPAN clips and all, on his show last night.

Political knee jerk reactions. That is why most of these politicians are rated so low on performance, no leadership abilities at all.

I keep saying.. when peeps mention the past oligarchy (the GOP years)..
How well did that work?

Jake, please cite where “Democrats want assurances would not end up on American soil, even in maximum security prisons.”
I haven’t heard any Democrat officeholder openly express the absurd notion that these guys can’t be safely held in a maximum security prison, just like anyone from the Unibomber to Manuel Noriega.

I guess that finding U.S. prisons to accept the Gitmo boys.. is similar to finding European countries to take them..

These are “knee jerk” reactions as Thinking stated. We’ve imprisoned and tried many a terrorist on our soil.
Here’s a few from Glen Grenwald:
Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, convicted, 1996, U.S. District Court (before then-U.S. District Judge Michael Mukasey) — plotting terrorist attacks on the U.S. (currently: U.S. prison, Butler, North Carolina);
Zacarias Moussaoui, convicted, 2006, U.S. Federal Court — conspiracy to commit the 9/11 attacks (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);
Richard Reid, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court — attempting to blow up U.S.-bound jetliner over the Atlantic Ocean (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);
Jose Padilla, convicted, 2007, U.S. Federal Court — conspiracy to commit terrorism (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);
Iyman Faris a/k/a/ Mohammad Rauf, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court — providing material support and resources to Al-Qaeda, conspiracy to commit terrorist acts on behalf of Al Qaeda (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);
Ali Saleh al-Marri, accused Al Qaeda operative — not yet tried, held as “unlawful enemy combatant” (currently: U.S. Naval Brig, Hanahan, South Carolina);
Masoud Khan, convicted, 2004, U.S. Federal Court — conspiracy to commit terrorism as part of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Islamic jihad (currently: U.S. prison, Terre Haute, Indiana);
John Walker Lindh, convicted, 2002, U.S. Federal Court — providing material support to the Taliban (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado).

Looks like Obama’s grandstanding about the closing of Gitmo has come back to bite him.
For someone that is supposed to be so brilliant that was a dumb move.
He tossed a bone to the left to keep them happy knowing all along it might not ever happen–kind of like Don’t Ask Don’t Tell..

Thankfully commonsense prevailed. Obama admitted that most of the Guantanamo prisoners are dangerous terrorists. Two such prisoners released have subsequently carried out suicide bombings. Maybe the far left who insists on moving terrorists ashore wants to put up one of them to sleep in the same bedroom as their kids. Oh wait….no takers?

KR:”Correct me if I’m wrong because it’s been a long time, but Noriega was held in a military prison (Levenworth I believe)… Federal prisons are the only option and Congress, by the pressure from their voting base, are saying no to that. So the question remains, where do they go if GITMO closes? There is no answer. ”
Uh, there is a pretty simple answer. Congress gets the detailed plan they want and then allows them into a federal prison (where Noriega is held, through a few different institutions over his sentence).
There are more pressing matters that the country has to deal with. Obama was reaching to just ask for a blank check to deal with this, but there is a lot of background crunching to do before they close down. There is still plenty of time to put together a proper plan and get Congress and the public onboard. It is simply absurd to think that the only way to hold these people is to keep them in Cuba.

Robert:”Obama admitted that most of the Guantanamo prisoners are dangerous terrorists. Two such prisoners released have subsequently carried out suicide bombings. ”
Two released prisoners subsequently carried out bombings? Out of the over 400 who have been released without charge? I don’t know whether to be contemptuous of how many non-terrorists Bush clearly swept into chains, or impressed at his 99.5% success rate at picking those harmless enough to release…

I’m trying to imagine how transferring people who haven’t been tried in civilian courts into our federal prisons would even be legal.

Dumb, unnecessary campaign promise comes home to roost.

“Blech, they caved to the idiot right.”
The only thing Democrats “cave” to is poll numbers, because of course votes are more important than country. If they caved, I’d bet money it’s because of some poll out there that’s scaring them, not the … “idiot right” as you proclaim. Why in the world would they cave to them anyway? They have total power right now, there is no need to.

Boumediene v. Bush – decided by the US Supreme Court last summer. The Court ruled that the those detained at Guantánamo have a constitutional right to file petitions for habeas corpus in U.S. federal court challenging the lawfulness of their detention.
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That isn’t permission to transfer them into a federal prison with no trial.

“the over 400 who have been released without charge?”
Whoa, where are you getting those numbers? Last I saw, as of Obama taking office, 280 ish were in GITMO. Those 2 bombers were 2 of 40 released, of the remainder, at least half have been tagged as rejoining a terrorist group. That’s some fuzzy math you got there, you had one too many “0″‘s on your number.

The reality is that it is clear, despite claims to the contrary in the past by some liberals and Democrats, that there are many parties at Gitmo who are dangerous individuals who can’t simply be released without seriously endangering civilian populations. Indeed, about 60 Gitmo detainees already released have already returned to the jihad against non Muslims.
There is a need therefore for some Gitmo type facility for such individuals and military tribunals should be used to deal with such individuals. The fact Obama didn’t recognize this reality shows his incompetent handling of this issue.

Obama was willing to promise anything on the campaign trail. Due to his flagrant stupidity and inexperience he promised to close gitmo.
He got away with that promise, because as we are discovering via Pelosi, the years long anti-Bush dem/media meme of Bush lied is coming unraveled.
The dems were hand in hand with all the decisions – all along-but were more concerned about campaigns and inciting their far-left loonies than in what is best for the US.
Now Obama is caught up in the realities and is seeming to want to appease the loonies but knows he will pay politically when releasing these terrorists goes very badly for the US.
He got himself in this spot, with the willing help of the dems and the media.
Now he better manage this in a way that does not endanger the US.

KR:”Whoa, where are you getting those numbers? Last I saw, as of Obama taking office, 280 ish were in GITMO. Those 2 bombers were 2 of 40 released, of the remainder, at least half have been tagged as rejoining a terrorist group. That’s some fuzzy math you got there, you had one too many “0″‘s on your number. ”
Bush has been moving detainees through for years. About 400 is the number I’ve seen reported. I assumed the 2 person number cited in the post I was replying to was accurate. Looking into it further, the Pentagon claims 18 have returned to terrorism and suspect an additional 43 may have. That’s from the Defense Intelligence Agency report issued in late December. That would be 18 out of over 400 released (61 out of 400 if you assume all suspected are guilty) – how do you get almost half from that?
Oh, and are you implying that those 2 suicide bombers were released by Obama???? I would need some documentation for that assertion – the only suicide bomber recidivism I could find was Abdallah Salih al-Ajmi and that attack was in March of 2008. Since even Cheney has only mentioned one, I am starting to suspect the original assertion of 2 ex-detainees becoming suicide bombers may be just another right wing exageration.

Billy bob
No one tops the Idiot Bush no one! Like a Man couldnt think before going to war killing 100s on False Information now that my friend is an Idiot no one tops that!

Watching
Thats the Problem their acting like cowards we are AMERICA WE CAN HANDLE ANYTHING!

KR:”I love this! It’s “unprecedented perpetual” by those slimy republicans, but when its Democrats its checks and balances. Gotcha. No one sided political perception there. ”
Degree matters. The number of filibusters approximately DOUBLED when the Republicans went into the minority. That is documented fact (cloture votes). The last two Senates were obstructed by filibusters more in two years than in the entire 19th century combined.
It is historical record that Democrats never abused the filibuster to this degree (nor past Republicans), even during the contentious civil rights struggles.

Paige-
Federal prisons are for people who have been convicted in a civilian criminal court. Can you explain to me how you think Boumediene made it legal to put people who have not been tried- and will not be tried- into a US civilian prison indefinitely?

In the past, the Bush Administration told us that these last 200 Gitmo detainees were the “worst of the worst”, which would include the Chinese Uigyrs.
What happened? Are they better now?
i’m also nonplussed by the Democrat reaction to all this, as if this is some kind of surprise. But it’s nice to see them finally accept and agree with the logical, common-sense GOP position on detainee release: No.
What’s confusing is Obama was open about his intention to close Gitmo and “do something” with the detainees, and Virginia went whole hog for Obama last November. Now, all of a sudden, they’re shocked that Obama wants terrorists to live in Northern Va. You voted for this.

“They do not have enough votes to break the unprecedented perpetual-filibuster the Republicans have launched in the Senate.”
Posted by: jhw539 | May 20, 2009 10:52:00 AM
The Democrats have RINO’s Collins and Snowe to vote their way and break any Republican filibuster.

“Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said yesterday. ‘We don’t have a plan.’”
So right in so many, many, many cases.

“It is historical record that Democrats never abused the filibuster to this degree (nor past Republicans), even during the contentious civil rights struggles.”
They didn’t have to. Republicans were far more cooperative.

“Obama is currently proposing the detainees be tried (finally), but punted on providing a detailed plan for the ultimate handling of them.”
Obama is proposing doing what Bush wanted to do all along.
Where in the Constitution is the description of the trial of terrorists?

“Behold the power of Republican ‘critical thinking.’”
If they were to be given civil trials, they would all be freed.
Hey, I’m all for that. Release them into Sidwell.
Today.

How silly can you get. We have far worse criminals in jails all over the country. We know far better than they do in Gitmo, how to keep violent prisoners from escaping. When we catch a terrorist here in the US, they get tried here and imprisoned here and nobody fusses about it. Some in the public and most of the politicians are just playing to unreasoned fear. These guys need to be charged, tried and imprisoned in the United States.

“The number of filibusters approximately DOUBLED when the Republicans went into the minority.”
Ok so let me get this straight… It’s not “why” a filibuster is put into place like explained by Democrats when they were the majority as “checks and balances”, but more importantly how many are used or “abused” as you put it. Still sounds like, regardless of how many are done, that for a Democrat minority its checks and balances but for a republican minority its abuse and obstruction. Given the last 120 days, how much has been done and passed, if they have double the filibusters and we still have this much government garbage spewing out, we haven’t had enough filibusters.

We could just follow the Bush plan for the Gitmo detainees. Oh, that’s right. There was no Bush plan except hold them indefinitely.

These guys need to be charged, tried and imprisoned in the United States.
You can’t.
Not without evidence. And that evidence would compromise the ability to gain intelligence and it would compromise agents in the field. It would impair the country’s ability to do its job.
Which is why Democrats want it so badly.

Time Magazine:
“If successful, the argument by Obama’s Justice Department attorneys could create a loophole that would allow Obama to transfer prisoners to war zones for indefinite detention, a situation similar to the legal limbo that Bush established for Guantánamo.”

jwh:
“It is simply absurd to think that the only way to hold these people is to keep them in Cuba. ”
Red herring. No one is asserting it’s the ONLY way. Many are asserting it’s the best way.

“The number of filibusters approximately DOUBLED when the Republicans went into the minority. That is documented fact (cloture votes).
Posted by: jhw539
——————-
Ah, we are back the the vast right wing filibuster conspiracy again.
Please explain how you use cloture votes to root out Republican filibusters.

jwh:
“So Congress is saying no until they have a firm plan (rather than allowing the Republicans to keep spinning the doomsday fantasies they’re so good at). ”
And the most diabolical part is they have Harry Reid doing the spinning for them now.

I guess when the actually thought about it, they decided there were some very dangerous people there. Never believe what a presidential candidate promises during a campaign. We fall for it everytime don’t we?

LongT- I’m being facetious.

MayBee; OK, I get it. Subtle slam dude!

“It’s been up and running for a long time. The Bush administration left that one for us too.”
So what’s changed?
Gitmo? Rendition? Indefinite detainment? Military tribunals?
That governing thingie is a lot harder than that campaigning thingie.
And no one has the integrity to point all this out.

And no one has the integrity to point all this out.
===========
That’s what stings.
It’s also why we can’t have 2-year long Presidential campaigns. It was obvious 2 years ago that none of this would be easy, but it was so fun to listen to the platitudes.

Time for a stroll down memory lane. One of the many promises made by Obama during his campaign for president was that he would close Gitmo. Ah, but no one (read news media) dared ask the hard questions that are being asked now. So we had an irresponsible candidate blowing smoke and the clueless sign on to his every invocation. Be prepared for more of the same, you who voted for this guy.

Poor Gibbs. Jake is handing him his hat.
Again.

F Hyena
All of that Bush Cheney stuff has been renamed..

White House Facing Rebellion on Hill on Plan for Detainees (or Lack Thereof)
May 20, 2009 9:06 AM
Uncertainty and discomfort about President Obama’s plans for the 240 or so detainees at Guantanamo will come to a head today when Senate Democrats vote to block $80 million the President requested to close Gitmo. Seems to be some dissention among the ranks of the Dems and the gut in the White House..