Focus: Health Care

We learned today that President Obama may have opened the door to taxing employee health benefits. I have yet to hear whether there is a $250,000 threshold for taxing the benefits. Could it be that President Obama is going to once again break his promise: “Not your income taxes, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes,” on those making under $250,000?

Shouldn’t the President be doing more about creating an atmosphere that promotes growth in business. 89% of the people are happy with their current plans and over half of the 46 million without health insurance are either illegals or don’t want it. The other half are dynamic. Not the same people all the time. He was way off on his predictions about unemployment so why should we believe that he knows what he’s talking about now.

I thought the President did a superb job on this! This is a tough issue and there will always be “doubters” out there. I am shocked to hear that people think their healthcare is sooooo great. All I ever hear from people I speak to is how terrible their healthcare is and how many things are denied by the insurers. Wake up America! No healthcare does not mean savings or a better way of life! If you don’t believe me, just get a life threatening illness and see how fast your insurance company doesn’t know you. Sad, to think that they would just let you die rather than expend the funds to save you, but healthcare is a BUSINESS folks. They are not there to make you well! Way to go ABC — you finally showed that you have what it takes to be a news agency and that you will not bow to conservative propoganda!

I am in agreement that there needs to healthcare coverage for those people that have pre-existing conditions, but I am also concerned that is thsi public coverage meant to cover people that are here in this country illegally? At the state level, the government is asking for a tax increase to support programs that help people, regardless of if they are here legally or illegally. But that tax increase would be hard for someone like me, that is in the middle class, and is trying to keep my head above water by trying to sustain my family without going into debt. What if the same thing happens at the federal level (eventually–even though right now the President as an alternative way for funding the public health care). Any more tax increases may cause some of us on the border of middle class to go below into the poverty category.

Comments re:healthcare decisions, like those of the president of the AMA, are ridiculously disingenuous. In the current system, for many, many people, healthcare decisions are NOT made between patient and physician, they are made by the insurance company for the insurance company and their investors.
Caring for my father, I’ve seen the difference between private healthcare and government administered healthcare. When he needed it the most, his private healthcare insurance would not approve the doctors’s medically prescribed treatment, and after 20 years of paying premiums, they dropped my father’s coverage. He had to pray he didn’t get sick until he was eligible for Medicare.
The treatment under Medicare, a government administered healthcare, has been incredibly efficient and effective. Whose kidding who here.
We have a great healthcare insurer in the government administered Medicare program. It’s cheaper, it’s more efficient and it doesn’t drop you. Doctors don’t have endless paper work to do and they don’t have to fight with it to get the care they need to give their patients. The ONLY problem the government program has is that it doesn’t cover everyone.

I’m going to defend President Obama because every Economist worth his salt understood that we needed a Stimulus package to jumpstart our economy. That same economy jerked the table out from under countless companies and families across the country. Did he think Unemployment would go so high. No! When he tried to explain how bleak things were, he got lambasted for being to dour. Nothing the man has said, from the time he was elected, until now has not been under microscopic analysis.
Know this people, health care is going to cost money. How much, somewhere upward of 1 Trillion dollars. We spend that much on Wars every two years. More importantly, we can afford it, simply taking the money we currently pay for immoral, corrupted Insurance plans that boot you off the minute you become seriously ill. Will pay for healthcare twice over. Every one of the arguments from fiscal conservatives, is filled with contempt for the American Public.
I’ll put it as simple as I can, if you think having your private overpriced Insurance is such a great thing, you keep it. Me and 75% of the thinking public will gladly switch over to the more affordable public option, while you throw your money away. Nothing in life is free, but I sure as heck don’t have to spend my money on a plan that doesn’t give a crap about me! Provided by a Hospital and Doctor, only interested in gated communities and mercedes benz’s.
I’m sorry to have ranted, but it just appears that too many people are siding with the same crooks that just bankrupted our country.

What they should do is bill it as a bailout, pay the installments directly to the insurance providers, and push through their latest attempts at cost-controlling policy. It’s a lot easier to sell another bailout than to sell a mandated monthly payment for the uninsured. It’s also a lot healthier for the domestic economy to absorb expenses through inflation than to attempt to hold down inflation while pressing a burden of mandatory payments on people while they watch the quality of their healthcare disappear.

I bet you could get away pretty easily with including most of healthcare premiums in taxable income. That would give a good one-time bang for the taxbuck. Forcing insurance, though, no way. More citizens will jump ship than will pay a forced premium.

Sure people complain about their current health care, but never, ever complain about the government.
And with ‘sort of God’ in the White House, why should they complain? It will all work out fine just because He says so.
Here’s another great idea…how about having the government lean on banks to give high-risk buyers low-interest home loans through…mmmm…oh yeah, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac! It’s just bound to work out!
Hey, maybe we can use the CRE for condominiums, too…or is that just reaching for too much too soon?

Jake, my comment in the Sen. Grassley post comments was deleted strictly because it was from the conservative point of view. You would think that since ABC News has been accused of stifling debate with this healthcare presentation that this site would not censor comments from the other side. 46% of country, is ABC News writing all those folks off. Should we not come to this site or watch the network?

Main Stream Media — Please stop — I am tired of being sick to my stomach — pretty soon I’ll need health care.

Obama and the Democrats are in a frenzy to rush their agenda–everything has to be right now.
It’s as if they think things will change in 2010.
Americans weren’t very smart in 2008
will they wake up and take our country back in 2010/2012?
Maybe that’s why Obama is in such a hurry.

Why doesn’t the government just deal with the gaps, inconsistencies and injustices in the current system instead of creating anothe Medicare system calling it HealthCare?
Those who want to paint the medical industry as evil forget that it is the free market system that has driven a majority of our technological advancements in medicine and so many other industries. Look at socialistic societies and compare their advancements to ours. They cannot compare.
What the government does well is provide financing to private enterprise to advance our society. What they could do better is provide oversight. What they do worse is run agencies.

Ah, I remember it well. Whenever the subject of health care came up on the campaign trail, Mr. Obama would trumpet his desire to provide every American with the same health care plan that members of Congress, the President and federal employees enjoy. After all, if it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for the rest of us. That was the carrot; here’s your stick, America. Enjoy it and don’t choke on the splinters; it may not be covered under your People’s health care plan. Another stunning example of do as I say, not as I do. I am the President!

Obama hears footsteps behind him. Questions about the existence of his long-form birth cert. Questions about the true author of Dreams of My Father. Hearing footsteps of T-Paw, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minn.

Obama plans on having a Christmas tree in the White House!
Do you know that the Christmas tree is a pagan symbol?
But what do you expect from someone who also once said “the stars are aligned”….
Jake, please ask Obama about his plans to put a Christmas tree in the White House as foretold in the Left Behind Series.

“I want the best for my family?” So just answer the question Obama, what does “I want the best for my family mean?” We all want the best for our families in time of need. The question remains are we going to get the best and are YOU going to subject your family to the same Universal Health Care system as the rest of us? Honestly, do you actually believe the Democrat majority Government is going to provide better services than private enterprise..If so, you all come and live with us in good ol’e Democrat majority run State Assembly SoCal…That is if you have a job, we could use the tax revenue…..

What if “the best” you can do for your family is to take them to the ER because you don’t have insurance?
I think he did answer the question. Everyone wants the best. Providing universal care means that NOBODY would be denied basic care for lack of money.
It’s a pretty bizarre misreading to assume that he was saying otherwise.
And it is morally disgusting to pit the petty fears of those who have much from those who have nothing.
It’s like saying, “Food stamps might mean that your family will be forced to go without ketchup for their french fries, just so someone else can eat.”
Sure, it’s unfair to take away ketchup. But it is much more unfair for someone else to starve so that you can have ketchup.

“Obama hears footsteps behind him. Questions about the existence of his long-form birth cert. Questions about the true author of Dreams of My Father.”
These are things that freepers like the Holocaust shooter believe in.
“Hearing footsteps of T-Paw, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minn.”
He may be the last man standing for 2012 as every other potential GOP candidate self implodes.

But I suppose I would watch out if T-Paw came creepin up… too.
Republicans are hard to predict.

liam: This is SO worth repeating!! Thank you!
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Ah, I remember it well. Whenever the subject of health care came up on the campaign trail, Mr. Obama would trumpet his desire to provide every American with the same health care plan that members of Congress, the President and federal employees enjoy. After all, if it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for the rest of us. That was the carrot; here’s your stick, America. Enjoy it and don’t choke on the splinters; it may not be covered under your People’s health care plan. Another stunning example of do as I say, not as I do. I am the President!

“Another stunning example of do as I say, not as I do. I am the President!”
This an interesting ploy from right wingers given the number of so called family values Republicans that seem to have zipper problems.
I guess you are counting on the base to be stupid and look at the new shiny outrage you present them.

. but I couldn’t take it any longer. After waiting for hours and spending close to 1000 dollars..
~~~
Depending on when you were a kid you could probably have purchased a decade of health care for that money.
So I don’t get it.

But if 1000 could provide a lifetime of health care in your youth… Why can’t 2000 or 3000 do the same today?
My employer pays about 15000 a year. I pay another couple.
The only thing that has really changed has been the introduction of HMOs.
If the government has to get in there and make insurance less profitable… I’m all for it.
I would love to spend 1000 for a lifetime of care. And if it was something that was within reach during your lifetime… It only means that we need to establish some basic norms of care for a set price.
Any additional care beyond that, can cost more.

Borneo- Between government, insurance providers, and healthcare providers, the practice has been to appease people for the premiums they pay into what is already a lot of socialized medicine through posting huge bills for care. The amount that actually gets re-imbursed is very small compared to what you see on your bill. Try to negotiate an out-of-pocket payment with a hospital sometime. They’ll be happy if you offer a tenth of your bill in most cases.

chanelno19,
What about all the people you never have to look in the eye and say “no” to?
There are many people who will never even schedule an appointment with you because they lack money.
Sure, you don’t have to turn them down personally….
But aside from the personal discomfort of saying “no”… the moral question of whether or not a person gets to live a long life is denied them.
The only difference is that you can choose to live without seeing the poor. But the poor are always with us.
Of course, you might be the next Mother Theresa…. I hope you are. But aside from the personal question of good or evil that you face… what about the personal questions of good or evil that poor people have to face.
We’ll never have a society where everyone has all that they want, whenever they want. Suffering will always be a part of life. But at the same time, there are some types of suffering which can be alleviated relatively easily and without too much sacrifice.
Social Security is a perfect example of such a sacrifice. Sure, it’s a pain to all who work… but it is much better than seeing old people die from starvation and exposure.

It’s not about better healthcare! Just like it’s not about climate change!
Healthcare and climate change are just populist issues that the Left is exploiting in order to pass legislation that will make it easier to accomplish their true agenda–controlling every aspect of our lives.
The Left despises Corporate America, the Free Market, Capitalism and Individual Freedom. The Left believes wealth is a zero sum game–that people become wealthy only from another’s loss. The Left believes that the wealthy have become wealthy by stealing from the less fortunate. That is why they believe in wealth redistribution–returning the money to its “rightful owner,” the poor and the middle class.
85% of the American people are satisfied with the healthcare they are receiving. But instead of just tweaking the system to make the other 15% satisfied, the Left is seizing the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone: Destroy the private health insurance industry AND making the federal government the sole provider of healthcare. Once the federal government has full control of our healthcare system the Left will be in a better position to control our lifestyles through preventative healthcare.
The Left has changed their “global warming” cause to that of “climate change” because there is too much evidence that their claims of global warming is bogus. So instead they can now blame greenhouse emissions for warmer and cooler weather–all in the guise of “saving the planet.” The planet does not need saving. Now maybe life on the planet may be in jeopardy if we have a total meltdown or a new iceage. But the earth, itself, will be just fine. It always has been and it always will be. Now as for climate change, itself, the Left wants us to believe that climate change is all new and manmade. I have just four words for them: Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter.
Wake up America! Don’t let the Left take our God-given rights away from us. Don’t let the Left dictate what products we can or cannot purchase. Don’t let the Left dictate what foods and beverages we can or cannot eat and drink. Don’t be drawn further into the Left’s war against Corporate America, the Free Market, Capitalism and Individual Freedom–all of which have made America the greatest nation on earth.

borneo, IMO your parents were irresponsible and should have taken you to the doctor when your earache persisted. They could have found a way to make payments or done something. They risked your health and it cost them more in the end.
If so many people are afraid to go to the doctor, then why do we always here stories about people spending hours in the local ER for the sniffles? Instead of helping themselves, they head for the ER. But I bet they can still come up with money when it comes time to pick up a pack of smokes, get a six pack or buy some lottery tickets.
Obama did not answer the question, which was will you put your family on this plan. He does not want to answer it because politicians and possibly unions will not be forced to join it. In fact, Kennedy’s bill mandated it.

“The Left has changed their “global warming” cause to that of “climate change” because there is too much evidence that their claims of global warming is bogus.”
Because climate change is a better description of the events.
You also had the right wing media claiming that because it was snowing outside global warming could not exist.
Given the stupidity of the right wing and many accepted this “logic”.
All that nonsense to defend polluters who poison all of our air and water because it means a better profit margin.

The difference between you and me, Borneo, is that you are willing to have the government take money from me, by force if necessary, in order to give it to strangers.
I’m willing to let you dispose of your money as you see fit: if you want to give it away to provide healthcare for the poor, fine.
You are not willing to let me dispose of my money as I see fit: you want to compel me to give money to provide healthcare for the poor.
The difference between you and me is: I believe in freedom, which is attainable to the extent that the government leaves me alone. You believe in fairness, which is only attainable to the extent that the government does not leave me alone.

Hmm… it looks like the American people are not interested yet another Obama infomercial and voted with their TV sets.
President Obama’s town hall meeting on health care delivered a sickly rating Wednesday evening.
The one-hour ABC News special “Primetime: Questions for the President: Prescription for America” (4.7 million viewers, 1.1 preliminary adults 18-49 rating) had the fewest viewers in the 10 p.m. hour. The special tied some 8 p.m. comedy repeats as the lowest-rated program on a major broadcast network.

Ryan C wrote: “You also had the right wing media claiming that because it was snowing outside global warming could not exist.”
The UK Hadley Climate Research Unit (HadCRUT) reported a 0.595°C drop in the global temperature from Jan 2007 to Jan 2008.
Remote Sensing Systems (RSS) Satellite data indicated a 0.629°C drop in the global temperature for the same period.
The Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) reported a 0.75°C drop in the global temperature for the same period (their largest single year to year January drop).
University of Alabama, Huntsville (UAH) Satellite reported a 0.588°C drop in the global temperature for the same period.
These four indicators show an average of 0.6405°C drop in the global temperature for that 12-month period. It is being reported as the “single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.”

opps, typo….not 200 yrs ago…2000

“The difference between you and me, Borneo, is that you are willing to have the government take money from me, by force if necessary, in order to give it to strangers.”
So you’re against the concept of taxation?

Ryan C: “So you’re against the concept of taxation?”
Nope. I’m against the concept of wealth redistribution.
Taxation is a necessary method to fund proper functions of government. Proper functions of government are limited (broadly speaking) to police functions, national defense, and the courts.
Taking my money to give it to the poor, or to the schools, or to the disabled, or to the farmers, or to corporations, or to foreign countries… these are not proper functions of government.
If I want any of these groups to have more money, I’ll give them some of mine, voluntarily, and I do.

“Ryan, you are an anachronism. You would have been most happy living your life out about 200 yrs ago here as an Indian. Of course you would have had to deal with the smoke from all those fires, but you can’t have everything.”
You actually made me think of this quote
“Most people think Marv is crazy. He just had the rotten luck of being born in the wrong century. He’d be right at home on some ancient battlefield swinging an axe into somebody’s face. Or in a Roman arena, taking his sword to other gladiators like him.”

The challenge to the public option isn’t based in this, though. It is based in the fear that outrageous billing procedures will come to an end.
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Borneo- Are you trying to say, outrageous procedures, outrageous billing procedures, outrageous procedures for billing, or what? The most outrageous thing about billing is how little of it the government actually pays currently, and they’re still going bankrupt.

I’m with you a little on that. ‘Corporate persons’ are, with certain qualifications, just as much, if not often more of a threat to the common man than government.

‘Corporate persons’ are, with certain qualifications, just as much, if not often more of a threat to the common man than government.
Posted by: MarkLeavenworth | Jun 25, 2009 5:41:59 PM
Can’t disagree. Unfortunately, the failing of our legislative and judicial branches to keep them in check is just as much of a problem. They will get away with as much as we let them. And most politicians don’t REALLY want to punish them because at some point they are benefitting. Might not be directly with that CORP, but they are getting greased somehow, somewhere. It’s all hyprocritical outrage!

The whole notion of ‘corporate person’ was to give a man a sense of security to take on business risk without venturing his home and family life. There are other ways to accomplish that. I say corporations should be forced to do business by the name of the man at the healm. Let’s nix the shadowy moral underworlds, foreign plots, and destructive tendancies shielded by the protected status of ‘corporate persons’.

What I do not like is the fact that so many people hide their intentions behind a corporate purpose and a corporate brand. That makes it all too easy to have nobody truly personally accountable for the actions of the corporation. The momentum is with people on this. Just before the collapse of leveraged instruments, CEO’s were, very reluctantly, made to sign an affidavit that they take personal responsibility for the reported account figures of the corporation. Why should that have been such a difficult request to meet? We should pursue that path, and eliminate the ‘corporate person’ status, replacing it with personal CEO responsibility beyond a threshold personal property limit.

Twice I’ve had to take issues up with lawmakers, when corporations, through complete control of a market or region, were able to enforce corporate policy on citizens that extended into rights not dis-allowed by the government. While the infringements were minor, the potential was enormous, especially given the complete blindness I discovered on the part of lawmakers to the potential threat to their own constitutional authority.

Sorry gang, I had to take my mother in for minor surgery (a previous attempt at removing a cancerous growth didn’t get all of the cancer; they believe they got it all this time). By the way, she is very pleased with her healthcare plan (AARP–whatever Medicare does not cover, AARP covers; and they never send a statement), as well as her prescription plan (Express Script–$9/$27 for regular or $3/$9 for generic for 1mo/3mo supply).
Before I get into my reply, I want to offer my condolences to the Jackson Family. The “King of Pop” will be missed.
Yes, I was referring to our unalienable Rights: Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
LIFE: Should the Left ever get full control of our healthcare, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to foresee, in the guise of cutting costs, that some elderly or severely handicapped infants MIGHT be denied healthcare. Also, it is not inconceivable that overpopulation might one day be declared a health risk, thus under their preventative healthcare plan, the Left might implement a “one-child policy” here in the United States.
China has a “one-child policy.” Some claim to have been forcibly sterilized or forced to abort children; although officially large fines are imposed if a couple has more than one child. (NOTE: The Chinese claim that forced abortion and sterilization are strickly prohibited.) The Netherlands is debating the idea of forced abortion and contraception to deal with a crisis of unwanted children. Euthanasia is currently legal in the Netherlands and Belgium. Other European countries are having a very heated debate on whether to legalize euthanasia.
LIBERTY: Should Cap and Trade become the law of the land, restrictions on energy usage and strict controls on what products we can or cannot purchase will be implemented. Hefty fines or even possibly incarceration could eventually be imposed. While President Obama has stated his opposition to it, there are some Democrats in Congress who might consider imposing heavy fines–if not incarceration–for failing to purchase healthcare insurance. Currently we have the right to deny our own medical treatment. The Left could take that right away from us, under the guise of preventative healthcare. Also under the guise of preventative healthcare, the Left could deny healthcare or transplants to individuals who smoke or don’t maintain a lifestyle that conforms to the Left’s approved guidelines.
PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS: The federal government is already limiting bonuses and salaries on some individuals who have accepted stimulus money. There are some Democrats who want to extend these limits to other industries who have not accepted stimulus money. This type of government interference will kill the Free Market and Capitalism. Furthermore the Left makes no bones about the fact that they want to redistribute the wealth. Punishing success inhibits the incentive to strive for success. And that ultimately hampers the pursuit of Happiness.

Ryan C wrote: “What I do not like is conferring upon corporations rights like freedom of speech etc.”
Do you also object to non-profit organizations (i.e., MoveOn.org or Media Matters) or unions having freedom of speech?

Or is the ‘corporate person’ notion a box that you can’t get out of?

You would just have to know who is taking your electric bill, which is who you would go after if there were any problems with your service. That would motivate them to be responsive instead of motivate them to give transfers for service calls to machines and push-tone menus routed through India. If you bought a good, you would be paying a real, living man against whom you could file a complaint or send an actionable letter if the product was a lemon, even if the company was a fly-by-night. etc, etc

My proposal is the legislative reversal of the court opinion that created the ‘corporate person’ identity.

MarkLeavenworth, here is an area I would like changed. First that NO organization, whether a corporation, a union or a non-profit organization should be allowed to contribute money to any politician or political group. Now then, I also believe we should limit individual political contributions to ONLY those candidates and issues (political groups set up either as proponents or opponents of a proposition or initiative) for which THAT individual is eligible to vote. In otherwords, you can only contribute to candidates or issues that will be on your ballot.