More on the “If You Like Your Health Plan, You’ll Keep Your Health Plan” Promise

Wait a minute.
The original drafts of the health care proposal indicated that unless you had a federally “qualified” plan, you would be subjected to a federally mandated tax, of unspecified magnitude.
This is hardly in keeping with, “you’ll keep your health care plan” promises.
It would be nice if people with access to the president would press him on topics like this.

Following Obama’s logic: The government doesn’t force you to pay taxes, either. It’s your CHOICE to make enough money to be taxed.

The fact that Sawyer provided no follow up question that confirms fears that employers will switch, essentially crushing private business, is all one needs to know about the up coming infomercial produced by ABC.
Here is the other factor which the media is not asking and Obama is getting away with claiming.
Yesterday Obama arrogantly quipped that if something which is market based is supposed be better than government ran than they would stay in business (sarcasim was in place).
What Obama, and members of the media do not seem to get is this: Businesses need to make a profit. The government does not.
At that point, the government can low ball the competition out of exsistence. Regardless of what ever type of care it provides.
This is the same thing which tax payers will face with GM and Chrysler. Instead of building cars which the public will buy we will get poorly built government designed cars at expensive prices.
Of course it wont matter because they will be leaching off the tax payer.
There is a very good reason why many doctors do not take medicare patients.

“I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear WEAPON…”
And the truth?
“Obama: Iran Has Right to Nuclear POWER”
Which begs the question- ”
Which begs the question just how bad is the right wing’s reading skills to not understand the difference between nuclear weapons (go boom) and nuclear power (which is operating in 26 states and supplies 20% of our nation’s electricity).

“Yesterday Obama arrogantly quipped that if something which is market based is supposed be better than government ran than they would stay in business (sarcasim was in place).
What Obama, and members of the media do not seem to get is this: Businesses need to make a profit. The government does not.”
So is that why America spends two to three times as much on healthcare (per person looking at the other first world nations)? So the ‘problem’ is that the government would offer the same service (otherwise just like BMW vs Hyundai, the private insurers would have a market) for less cost… What is the problem again? What happened to the private sector being so efficient they could provide equivalent service and make a profit?

Which begs the question just how bad is the right wing’s reading skills to not understand the difference between nuclear weapons (go boom) and nuclear power (which is operating in 26 states and supplies 20% of our nation’s electricity).
Posted by: jhw539 |
——————-
Which begs two questions.
Just how naive is the left if they think Iran is not hell bent on building nuclear weapons?
Why can Iran build nuclear power plants and we can not?

Take a good look at the health care systems in Canada and Britain – - I mean a close look – - read articles from those countries – like Britain denying prescription to a late-stage breast cancer patient; waiting times of up to 6 months or more for an MRI for a suspected herniated disc; waiting months to get an appointment for annual physical – - examples are endless ! ! ! Is this what you want?? It is called socialized medicine and has been proven to be unsuccessful. The folks that favor that system like it because they see it as “free”, but it is NOT!! – - their wages are taxed at 58% or more to pay for it. I would rather have more money in my pocket and have the option to buy the medical coverage I want.

===That sound you just heard was me changing channels.===
Permanently.

“Just how naive is the left if they think Iran is not hell bent on building nuclear weapons?”
“Why can Iran build nuclear power plants and we can not?”
I completely understand why Iran wants a nuclear weapon: As a deterrent against our invading them like we did Iraq. [see how destabilizing invading Iraq was?] They know they can’t stop us with conventional weapons.
If we’re sure it’s just for energy -let ‘em. Americans don’t want them.

jhw539,
Your question assumes that Republicans are welcome in the Healthcare discussion. The facts on the ground are completely the opposite.
The GOP is currently completely shut out of talks. In fact Dems warned lobbyist for their clients not to meet with Republicans or face being shut out of the talks themselves. (Roll Call magazine reported that)
More to your point, however, even at a “revenue neutral” footing would be bad. You do realize the post office is losing billions, right?
You also realize that the postal service is considering cutting Saturdays as well, right?
I suppose if you want our health care run like the mail then have at it.
However the trick is there is no federal mandate to force employers to carrying a certain type of coverage, nor does it impact people’s health.

“So is that why America spends two to three times as much on healthcare (per person looking at the other first world nations)? So the ‘problem’ is that the government would offer the same service (otherwise just like BMW vs Hyundai, the private insurers would have a market) for less cost…
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It isn’t less cost to the providers of the health care. They would just be charging the consumers less. If it is anything like Medicaid, they would also be paying the doctors and hospitals less than their costs.
The government may offer the same service to people in its public program without paying providers for, or collecting from taxpayers enough to cover, that service.
Letting people pay less for health insurance coverage does not equal lowering the cost of health care.

Republicans just don’t understand health care.
Only some people get health care from their employer. Others make hundreds of thousands a year and pay for it themselves. Still, others have trust funds that they can raid to pay for any medical costs.
But there is a huge segment of the population that is uncovered.
When I was a kid, my mom got kicked by a horse. We had to take a second mortgage out on our home to pay for the surgery. We almost lost our house, because a recession hit and her business stopped making money like it used to.
These stories are everywhere…. particularly among working class folks.

drjohn:”"Which begs the question just how bad is the right wing’s reading skills to not understand the difference between nuclear weapons (go boom) and nuclear power (which is operating in 26 states and supplies 20% of our nation’s electricity).”
Yeah, sure.
Peaceful nuclear weapons. You really believe that?”
I NEVER SAID PEACEFUL NUCLEAR WEAPONS. I never even alluded to it. I actually was pointing the exact opposite – how absurd it was to consider nuclear power equivalent to nuclear weapons.
I guess I have my answer about right wing reading comprehension skills.

MayBee:”
“So is that why America spends two to three times as much on healthcare (per person looking at the other first world nations)?
================
It isn’t less cost to the providers of the health care. They would just be charging the consumers less. ”
Actually yes, it is less cost to the providers. That is total healthcare spending – the money spent by consumers, businesses and the government – divided by number of people served. It is not just a little slice, like looking at billed costs or copays or such.

name 1 government service that is on budget. they estimate over a trillion dollars over the next 10 years for this. now…doing the math…our gov’t is not very good at budgeting anything…so one could come to the conclusion that the 1T mark is WAYYY off. We are asking a gov’t who cannot even run medicaid/medicare/SS efficiently to run health care? They already do the for a portion of the population and look at how poorly that is run. Do you HONESTLY think this is going to work-out well? It seems like people are only seeing how it will affect them. No one seems to look at the big picture…nor do they care thanks to our current ‘me, me, me’ society. This will end the private industry. Companies will drop private insurance co’s for the gov’t. It is extremely sad that people worry more about what the gov’t can provide them than they worry about what they can provide themselves. No one is here to take care of you…you need to earn your own way like everyone else in our history has. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. This proposed health care system is junk which will increase our deficits and increase taxes…but that’s ok with you people? My health insurance is only $68/month…and it’s a very good plan…i would assume my taxes would increase more than I currenlty pay out…and once my company drops private insurance, i will be provided the government’s crappy insurance at what is a higher rate. …but everyone will have insurance…yeah, i’m not here to take care of everyone else and i do not expect them to take care of me. seriously, this 1T bill will increase the number of insured by 10M when there are 30-something M currently uninsured? What a great ROI there.

He has the wrong quick fix approach for healthcare. You kind of get the idea that he has never excelled at an economic class. No one can offer up a quick fix trillions of dollars in debt approach and expect support. The only way to drive down medical costs is to infuse millions of qualified general doctors into the system.

Actually yes, it is less cost to the providers. That is total healthcare spending – the money spent by consumers, businesses and the government – divided by number of people served. It is not just a little slice, like looking at billed costs or copays or such.
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What?

He did exaggerate, but it is mind boggling that some people seem to be interpreting that as him talking for employers. It doesn’t take too much of a grasp of critical thinking to assume he meant the government wasn’t going to force you to change doctors.
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He chose the word nobody. He is a person who very carefully chooses his words. He is a politician.
He knew what he was doing, he knew he was leaving the impression with people that nobody was going to take away their doctor. He did that to suit his own purposes.
Furthermore, he can’t promise *anybody* their doctor will accept the public plan. Doctors do not have to accept Medicare or Medicaid. That is yet another way a person would lose access to his current doctor.
There was absolutely no meat to his promise.
Period.

I want to repeat that.
It isn’t just that employers may drop an insurance plan and so people lose access to their doctors.
It is also that a doctor may choose not to accept the public plan. In California, few doctors accept the MediCal insurance plan because it does not pay enough.
There is no promise you can keep your doctor. Period.

I don’t know why we want health insurance anyway.
If you get sick, just go to the ER.
And then the hospital bills everyone else anyway.
This way, those that can pay, do. Those that can’t, don’t.
It’s worked for years. Why not just keep it that way?
It’s much more efficient than trying to get everyone to pay for an efficiently run plan. This way the insurance company can raise the rates, instead of having the government tax people.
It’s more private that way. And private stuff is good. Plus, you know that the more expensive something is, the better you feel about having it.
It’s like food. I mean, sure, we could all have food all we want, I suppose. But then if I have a steak, and the other guy has a steak, what’s the fun in that. It makes me not want to work hard to have a steak.
BUT, if I have a steak, and the other guy doesn’t have anything, then it makes you want to work hard because: a) You don’t want to look like a loser. b) It reminds you how good it is to have another guy wanting your stuff. c) It helps remind people to have guns, because you might need one to stop the hungry, lazy guy from taking your steak.
And that is the essence of freedom.

“There is no promise you can keep your doctor. Period.”
Correct, sir.
Obama’s promises are as good as the Zimbabwean dollar.

jhw- why do you think he chose to forcefully say those particular words?

The post office was always meant to be subsidized. The whole point in “public” mail service is that the government can pick up the tab to serve rural citizens, who otherwise wouldn’t have access to mail.
In a city, affordable mail service could be profitable, but for rural citizens, a profitable mail service would be too expensive.
But, at some level, it is necessary in a Democratic society to allow people in rural parts of the country the same access to communication as people in the cities. Otherwise, cities would be overrepresented.

borneo:”The post office was always meant to be subsidized. The whole point in “public” mail service is that the government can pick up the tab to serve rural citizens, who otherwise wouldn’t have access to mail.”
The post office has not been subsidized for almost thirty years. They are granted a monopoly on delivery of first class letters in return for their promise to provide service to otherwise unprofitiable rural areas (the alternative would be $0.10 letter postage to NY city and $5.00 letter postage to a farm in North Dakota).

The argument that national healthcare does not work is disproven by every other first world nation.
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I am making no such argument.
My questions are, what are *we* going to do?
My complaint is that our President, who wants to lead the national debate, isn’t not being forthright either about what his plans are, or what the consequences would be.

MayBee:” why do you think he chose to forcefully say those particular words?”
To emphasize that the health care plan was not going to eliminate the existing insurance system. That is the take away most reasonable folks would have.
The only rational argument I’ve heard from thinking conservatives like George Will is that a government plan would eventually eliminate private plans because they could offer the same service for less since they don’t have to skim off profit and their size would allow for greater efficiencies in administration. So, same service for a lower cost (exactly what we see in the dozens of operating national health care systems)… the problem with that would be?
The only problem is that the trillion dollar healthcare industry owns too many Senators (including some Democrats).

proof is in the details….UNIONS AND CONGRESS can have their own plans…why? what happened to the promisses mr obama that we would have the same health care as congress.your poll numbers are slipping fast of late and the lack of leadership regarding iran and north korea are as sucessful as the stimulas bill that had to be signed to keep unemployment below 8%. you watch, as someone pointed out, auto insurance will be next.

To emphasize that the health care plan was not going to eliminate the existing insurance system. That is the take away most reasonable folks would have.
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He can’t even promise that. But if that’s what he wanted to emphasize, that’s what he could have said. He chose not to. For a reason.
As for reasonable folks, just who are you talking about here? We live in a country where 65% of the people understand the government gets its money from taxpayers.
24% think the government has its own money.
And lets look at the number of commenters around the internet who seem to think government health care would be “free”.
Or unimpeded. John Edwards made a campaign issue of poor Nataline Sarkisyan. Did he appeal to reasonable people when he said stuff like:
“We’re gonna take [insurance companies'] power away and we’re not gonna have this kind of problem again. These are living and breathing examples of what I’m talking about and there are millions more just like them.”
Were the people protesting on her behalf “reasonable”?

He has been clear about what he wants,
==============
We disagree on that.
Furthermore, he has been unclear on what it will cost, what we will get, and how we will get there.
And yes, Congress will ultimately write the law. But it is President Obama who wants to be out in public talking about it. He should do it clearly, without being misleading, and be brave enough to talk honestly about the negatives.

===We are not a dictatorship. He has been clear about what he wants, but Congress has the ultimate authority to write the legislation and they have very strong (and paid for) opinions on the issue.
Posted by: jhw539 | Jun 24, 2009 12:31:17 PM===
How does that work? Bush policies are Bush policies and Obama policies are congress’s policies.

“Ryan C- you know we can’t do links here.”
Of course.
“If you google, you should easily find articles about the studies. I first heard about it on NPR, so you can start there.”
Do you have a couple of keywords from the article or study title, I can google it.
The problem with googling just MediCal is it brings up everything medical.

BK:”Our Govt (as most, I assume) is highly inefficient and lazy and corrupt and burdensome and ridiculous. Always has been.”
That was not at all my question. My question was why do you assume it will be WORSE than every other first world nation – who spends half to a third as much per person for equivalent outcomes – in implementing health care?
And I’m amused by your consideration of “our nation” from our government. Maybe homogeneous Japan can make some sort of racial argument, but in common analysis the US (and all nations technically) are defined by their government.

“I hold our Govt in contempt, but not our nation.”
I think that you will find it challenging to show that we became a great nation with such a terrible government as you claim we have always had. I personally think our Founding Fathers did a marvelous job of designing our system of government.

Then you are assuming that our government is worse than every other first world nation. Sorry, but I do not hold my nation in contempt. -jhw539
I just have a feeling – correct me if I’m wrong – that you held the govt and a certain administration in contempt for the past 8 years. Just a feeling from your responses…

YOU DO NOT WANT THIS BILL PASSED. Your uninformed decision that government healthcare is a good idea is a joke. I worked at a government run clinic in TN for my clinicals, it was scary. The waiting room was filled from open to close, even before we opened there was a crowd of people outside the front doors. Most of the patients waited 6 hours to be seen, and during that time they were surrounded by mentally ill and contagious people. When they saw the doctor their care wasn’t great because she was exhausted.
Our government can’t run health insurance because it can’t even run medicare. It just paid over $100 million dollars for bogus HIV tests. And what do you think your health insurance is going to cost after this bill is in effect? Probably double, I’m paying $530 a month for health insurance and I’m a college student that just lost his job.

“I think our Founding Fathers would be shocked about the extent that corrupt politicians turn control of the government over to huge greedy corporations.”
__________________________
Really Skip? – to me it seems like our Govt is gobbling those up like a pac man game…
I think what you might really agree with is how our corrupt politicians have turned control of our Govt over to GREEDY and criminal globalist bankers and the federal reserve system.

BK:”A Govt mandated option would not create cost containment, and that is the only thing we need to worry about right now.”
? Again, why does a government mandated option cut the cost of health care by 50-66% in every other first world nation but it wouldn’t work here? Specifically, why do Americans pay two or three times as much for their health care? And if you’re going to claim we have vastly greater illegal immigrant issues than Europe, please provide ACTUAL NUMBERS that show that’s a non-negligible (greater than 3%) issue (the Bush administration worked this issue hard to cut federal matching fund reimbursements to state programs, so real data is available).

If, as many of you are saying–and as President Obama said yesterday–that a single-payer system is not the goal, shouldn’t the CBO be estimating how many individuals will keep their private insurance plans and estimate how many individuals will change to the public option and then estimate the cost? Instead the CBO has estimated that it will cost the federal government $1.6 trillion to cover EVERYONE. Actions speak louder than rhetoric!!!

Obama’s example doesn’t sound correct. My husband and I own a small business and we can’t just drop an employee from our insurance plan. If we provide insurance to one employee, we have to provide insurance to all of our employees. I’m not HR expert but that’s the way it is in our state. Some business may change the plan from year to year or they require employees to pay more to be covered because the cost of the plan increases. We always shop around and compare plans to keep costs low at our business. WTG Obama you just love to make businesses into the mean guys.
I don’t want this government insurance plan, it will turn out to be a bureaucratic mess and a drain on the economy just like social security, medicare, welfare, and on and on…

What a load of crap! The public option will eventually replace the private sector. I do not want government interference in healthcare. Everything they touch turns to slime. They need to cut back on their own perks and kick the illegal immigrants off the free ride.

President Obama ran his campaign with health care reform – and providing coverage to the millions who currently go without – as a major plank of his platform.
Now he is doing his level best to deliver on that promise.
It’s a good thing when politicians do what they promise during campaigns.

“The administration for about 6 years” -jhw539
So if you held the govt in contempt for 6 years then and I hold the govt in contempt now, what’s the difference?
And for the record, I did not say I held my nation in contempt. Those are words you put in my mouth here:
“Then you are assuming that our government is worse than every other first world nation. Sorry, but I do not hold my nation in contempt.” -jhw539
You are pretty good at twisting the words of commenters. You should watch that.

Oops! National debt is in trillions, not billions.

“It was quite clear to me from the first that what President Obama meant that the Government would not dictate that we had take a public option. Employees are at the whim of their employers choice for healthcare all the time. I think Jake’s question is another case of a reporter trying to make news where there isn’t any.”
Max, I couldn’t agree more.

“It was quite clear to me from the first that what President Obama meant that the Government would not dictate that we had take a public option.
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Those words were available to him.
Instead he chose to say, “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.”

And yes, for the remaining $1.5 trillion in additional national debt, President Bush was complicit in what happened and signed off those expenditures.

MayBee . .
“It was quite clear to me from the first that what President Obama meant that the Government would not dictate that we had take a public option. Employees are at the whim of their employers choice for healthcare all the time.”
I would think any sensible, thinking person knew this is exactly what Obama was saying in the context he was saying it.
It was completely clear Obama was not saying the government will take control of private companies and force them to keep the doctor you have.
You’re not being genuine.

“Our Govt (as most, I assume) is highly inefficient and lazy and corrupt and burdensome and ridiculous. Always has been. And in the wrong hands (as it is now) will become even more so.
I hold our Govt in contempt, but not our nation.”
I never said that. BK said it Jun 24, 2009 12:50:50 PM

“it is the best the planet has ever seen” – jhw539
I agree. The foundation of our country is the best. I’m just not sure Obama agrees with you.
We deal with the warts the best we can. It is curious though how all those who criticized Bush’s administration now want Republican’s to give Obama’s administration a chance. I think we know enough about Obama’s background to make a firm decision on if we want to do that or not.
So we make our choices freely and live with the results. That’s the greatest part of this nation.

Traffic cop . ..
“Those who criticized Bush’s administration . . .”
By the end of Bush’ administration that was approximatley 70% of Americans.
And yes, those people want the Republicans to give the Obama administration a chance.

James Danley:” shouldn’t the CBO be estimating how many individuals will keep their private insurance plans and estimate how many individuals will change to the public option and then estimate the cost? ”
Since NO PUBLIC OPTION LEGISLATION HAS YET BEEN WRITTEN, the CBO cannot do any analysis work.

“And yes, those people want the Republicans to give the Obama administration a chance.”
Danita, have you checked the polls lately? The natives are restless…
Polls are not reliable. People are fickle. If things are good, they are happy. If things are bad, they are not.
I am not willing to give Obama time because I know what he represents. I do not want that. If you do, that’s fine. If the majority does that’s fine too. I will stand on my own if need be. I am one citizen with one vote.

Axey:”===. Put them in Gitmo so it’s technically out of the jurisdiction of the Constitution===
I prefer they be held in Bagram too. Gitmo is too plush for them.”
Being held at a base in an active area of hostilities has solid historical and practical precedent. Holding them in a private island dungeon indefinitely – and judging from the utter lack of any planning, Bush seemed to intend to have them there until they died of old age.

Traffic cop . ..
Again, yes I have checked the polls and this is what I find . ..
(CNSNews.com) – A New York Times/CBS News poll released Saturday that showed broad bipartisan support for President Obama’s health care reform, over-sampled Obama voters compared to McCain voters, critics say.
The poll, administered June 12-16, found that 72 percent of respondents favored the creation of a government health-insurance plan that would compete with private insurers.

Danita has used that “70% criticized Bush” figure to justify the hateful pilloring he took. She explained that wasn’t hate spamming. That was Americans speaking out…therefore, okay.
The upside to this logic is that as Obama’s negatives climb, criticism of him will be looked at as Americans speaking out. So there’s that to look forward to.

New York Times/CBS poll…
Oh, danita, you are a precious soul aren’t you! And I bet the Huffington Post ran it in big bold letters, too!
I could find dozens of sites that debunk that poll. I won’t bother; you can find them yourself.
I’m with you 100% that health care is a problem and needs to be fixed. I just do not want the government doing it. Why does it have to be all or nothing? Can’t the federal govt do what it is supposed to do and watch over healthcare and punish the offenders? In reality, no they can’t because at that point it is all about weilding power and control.
I am a big proponent of limited federal government, with a strong State and local government. The problem with Federal programs is what is good for one region or state is not necessarily good for another. Everything has to be fair and dumbed down to the point where it helps no one. And it is slow to respond because it is centralized in a big bubble: DC. With State and local access, citizens have a much better chance for input.

Ryan C. That’s exactly my point. As I continued to state, “People are fickle. If things are good, they are happy. If things are bad, they are not.” Danita is citing her stats and I can find stats to support my points. She’s not worried about my stats and I’m not worried about hers. None mean a hoot!
The vote counts. Not the polls. almost 50% of the country voted against Obama. How do you justify “70% of the people want to give him a chance”? It’s just stupid is all.

“My boss is a large proponent of a government option since as a small business our biggest uncontrollable expense is health care. With only 30 employees, we have no bargaining power and have to just take annual 20% increases. We can’t keep passing the cost along much longer.”
Jhw,
How do you know that the gov’t option will give you insurance that you want? Go home tonight and pull out the fun card/sheet that shows all your various coverage categories and what your plan covers in & out of networks..etc.. and what your current premium is.
Then compare it to the same card for the gov’t/public option…..HMMMMM…might have a slight issue there. There is no such thing ANYWHERE in this entire debate. I have not seen one, and I’m quite sure if you had, you would have brought it up already. I have a feeling if this does pass, in the end it will have multiple levels of premiums & coverage/deductibles.
Until the day you can sit down and make that comparison, ALL the rest of this is just BS. Score a political point here, lose one there…It makes ZERO difference in the end.
Now in your specific case, what are you going to do if your employer figures the best way to keep all his employees is to go with govt/public option, even though it’s coverage is less (lets agree for sake of discussion it is less) than your current coverage. For boss, his contributions will be minimized and while basic level of coverage may be much less than your currently paying, you may indeed find that to keep your current level of benefits, you may actually pay more than you do today. Right now no one knows for sure, because these REAL details have not been worked out.

“Ryan C. That’s exactly my point. As I continued to state, “People are fickle. If things are good, they are happy. If things are bad, they are not.” Danita is citing her stats and I can find stats to support my points. She’s not worried about my stats and I’m not worried about hers. None mean a hoot!”
Polls are meant to gauge public opinion at a given time.
They are by no means perfect.
But they are a perfectly reasonable means of assessing the public’s mood.
Poll after poll shows overwhelmingly support for a public option.
Poll after poll shows overwhelming support for reform.
Poll after poll shows great cocern with rising healthcare costs.
“The vote counts. Not the polls. almost 50% of the country voted against Obama. How do you justify “70% of the people want to give him a chance”? It’s just stupid is all.”
Are you familiar with our system of government in which citizens vote for candidates for public office to represent them on issues and make decision accordingly versus voting on the issue itself?

Anyhow, beautiful day here . . . I’m off to enjoy it.

The 70% of the people who opposed Bush were American citizens, not hate spammers on here. There is a big difference.
_________________________________
Oh, hate spamming (which includes juvenile name calling, etc.) only occurs here against Obama. Never happened to Bush–that was just criticism by Americans.
Interesting theory.

Since when could you ever trust the government to run anything efficiently? The VA is in serious trouble right now, just think how bad health care will be in when/if the government gets their hands on it. Their first objective will be to run private insurance companies run out of business ASAP and you will have absolutely no choice. If this comes about, then government is a player and the only referee in the game; it cannot maintain a fair playing field. It will always undercut private business to maintain their power thru regulations, taxes and brute force.

Since when could you ever trust the government to run anything efficiently? The VA is in serious trouble right now, just think how bad health care will be in when/if the government gets their hands on it. Their first objective will be to run private insurance companies out of business ASAP and then you will have absolutely no choice. If this comes about, then government is a player and the only referee in the game; it cannot maintain a fair playing field. It will always undercut private business to maintain their power thru regulations, taxes and brute force. This is more about control than it is about health care.

Oh, almost forgot.
At some point you’re going to have to admit (if you are honest with yourself) that it was all a big lie and Obama never, ever cared about you at all. He never cared about anybody but himself.

“When the left begins to cite tenth of one percents in their polling data, they are getting worried…”
Yes god forbid that one relays the information as the source provides it.
Real Clear Politic’s poll compilations are an average of the two dailies and 5 or 6 polls taken within the last two weeks.
I may not agree with their editorial slant but their poll compilation is straight forward.

“A majority of Americans see government action as critical to controlling runaway health-care costs, but there is broad public anxiety about the potential impact of reform legislation and conflicting views about the types of fixes being proposed on Capitol Hill, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.”
Uh oh. That can’t be good for Danita and Ryan C… Sounds like the “public’s mood” might not be what they thought.

With the ‘right’ people in charge, government programs that never worked anywhere else at any time are bound to work now. I think it has something to do with planet/constellation alignments.

Watching the health care reform in porgress is worse than any ‘sausage making’ in history. The costs are larger than the promises made, and neither are realistic. Interesting how even the revered public option is no longer a non-negotiable item.