Obama Hails ‘Bold and Necessary’ Step by the House on Climate Change, Calls on Senate to Take Next Step

This huge TAX on the American people barely squeaked through 219 – 212, with just 7 votes. It is not likely to get to first base with the Senate, who are not as radical as the House Democrats. Obama has NOTHING to brag about when they had to drag Patrick Kennedy out of Rehab so he could vote for this giganic FRAUD bill that will tax each family up to $2500. per year and kill more than 3 million jobs! This administration is certifiably insane!!

We are doomed!! I can’t believe this idiot is trying to take over the world and make all of us dependent upon the government! God be with us all!!

===OMG! I said Hannity and Levin in the same post! Incoming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Traffic Cop Timmy | Jun 27, 2009 12:53:41 AM===
Well let me throw in “mega dittos”.

Most Americans will scarcely notice when their fuel/energy prices increase drastically, when they are frustrated when trying to get health care, when they get fired. They’ll just shrug and blame it on the ‘bad economy’.
These guys know what they’re doing.

People and businesses are reacting to a dieing planet – why can the government?

SOME GOOD ADVICE – IF YOU DON”T KNOW HOW TO HUNT TRAP AND FISH – YOU BETTER START LEARNING, NOW!!!!

What is the bill number?

What is sad is that most Americans don’t even realize the pass through costs on almost every product, good and service that will be associated with this bill. I’m not talking about your direct energy cost increase, but the other necessities of life as we know it. Trust me, this bill will be an absolute disaster to our economy as we know it currently. All I can say is get your wallet ready!

who gives a dam,I do not pay any attention to our dictator in white house he is discusting more so every day.

Common Sense 101 advises us to read any contract–including the fine print–before signing.
Yet our elected legislators are not reading (much less thoroughly understanding) bills before attempting to make the bill law of the land. That is sheer incompetence on the part of our legislators, but also on those of us who actually vote for legislators who don’t read (or understand) the bills before voting “Yes” on a bill.

We no longer have a congress who works for the American people they are out of control in 2010 let let them know what we thing vote for any one but the democratic let get them out of congress and in 3 1/2 yeare let get Obama out so he can do not more damage to this country if we still have one

This bill will have a severe negative impact on the poor…

Guys,
If I have 10 trillion dollars to spend like Mr. Obama, do you think you can create 4 millions jobs?

Wasn’t it Obama that made the point that our housing crisis was created by those who pushed mortgages on people who didn’t understand what they were signing? How about pushing bills on us that no one has even read? And, was this bill posted on the internet for us to read for 5 days? Has any of the bills that have been voted on been posted for everyone to read? The actual bill, not the one they started with and then amended at 3:00 AM?

lefty:” I find it incredible that there is not one single supporter of this cap and trade”
I strongly support it. Cap and trade has been a stunning success at reducing sulfur emissions, and it is time the externalities of energy were included in the costs so the market can properly respond. I’m tired of my income taxes subsidizing massive military expenditures and environmental cleanup to subsidize energy use. Energy costs should reflect the true cost to prevent the kind of market distortion we have now. And our economy’s subsidized reliance on finite and foreign sources is a significant national security issue. Even China has clearly grasped this, as their national policy shows.
But this is a subject where most people seem to have almost religious devotion to their side and ignore the facts and realities involved, so there isn’t a lot of point posting. May as well go off and waste a weekend arguing with a creationist.

Axey:”Has any of the bills that have been voted on been posted for everyone to read? ”
All of them are posted publicly, including amendments. Have been for years. And I have never heard the House promising that bills would be posted for 5 days (and it would be absurd to suggest that the Executive Branch would have any such power over Congress to require it).

===and it would be absurd to suggest that the Executive Branch would have any such power over Congress to require it===
You’re right. We will have to wait to see if the bill passes the senate and conference and is put on Obama’s desk for signing to see if he allows this bill 5 days before signing. The “Sunlight Before Signing” pledge is Obama’s, the he has repeatedly broken.

n22s:”Why were the last 300 pages shoved in at 3 am? Can anyone explain this farce?”
That’s how it has been done for decades – you’re just noticing? On bills like this (or the Bush Tax Cuts or Bush’s No Child Left Behind), they haggle over details and cut and add small bits until they finally get enough votes to make it pass. Then they print it and pass it. It’s how it’s done. A good legislator is involved and watching this entire process and knows what is going on.
Again, this is bone stock governing – not just in America, but most nations.

Axey:”The “Sunlight Before Signing” pledge is Obama’s, the he has repeatedly broken.”
Could you please post HIS ACTUAL PLEDGE? You know, the one with the exceptions of when that 5 day waiting period would not apply, not the iron clad gotcha paraphrased version from the right wing media sources.

jhw539, I hope you weren’t one of the morons who cried “hypocrite” over the Sanford scandal.
Obama promised transparency and could have used his powers to ask for more time for everyone to review the bill’s contents.
And I see you ignored my comments about China. Do you care that they use slave labor? some believe liberals/progressives to be on a higher moral/intellectual plane. Where is that morality now? Why did it take several days and public scorn to generate “outrage” over Iran?

===right wing media sources.
Posted by: jhw539 | Jun 27, 2009 12:36:42 PM===
Sorry, I got the phrase from Macon Phillips at the whithouse dot gov site. If you don’t like the phrase, you should ask the Obama WH not to use it. Do you consider the W-M bill an emergency? The Lilly Ledbetter bill an emergency? Because those were his caveats. Emergency bills would be handled differently.

This bill qualifies as an emergency and doesn’t require the 5 day waiting period? Are you kidding me?
Here’s Obama’s promise:
“not sign any nonemergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days”

THERE IS NO “climate change”. This is all just a ploy for the left to gain ever increasing control over every American’s lives. Contact your representative.

===Posted by: n22s | Jun 27, 2009 1:05:07 PM===
The biggest outrage is NO ONE read the bill that passed yesterday. They didn’t have one for them to read. All of those yes votes was for a bill they hadn’t read. The bums should be thrown out for deriliction of duty and stupidity.

Have you noticed that arguments in favor of an Obama initiative can be distilled into something that is Bush’s fault?
What does Obama own? I honestly want to hear from one liberal or progressive a policy they believe to be Obama’s. I want a benchmark from them that indicates Obama’s ownership of an issue.
I’m not being critical, I just want one honest liberal or progressive to assign some responsibility for something to Obama?
In my opinion the effects of this energy bill will by owned entirely by Obama and the Democrat controlled Congress.
Is there one Obama supporter who has the courage to assign him responsibility?

===This bill is ate up with opportunities for corruption and political favoritism.===
Yes, it is. I suggest investing in GE stock. Are one of Gore’s companies.

Posted by: jhw539 | Jun 27, 2009 12:17:32 PM
Generally speaking, I’m not sure it matters what you support. With the way Congress operates now, Senators are not going to vote for it if they know they have to go home and face their constituents who perceive this bill as cap and tax. With the current political climate, if they are on thin ice vote-wise, they will vote accordingly with 2010 looming.

===Then they print it and pass it. It’s how it’s done. ===
No they didn’t print it. The 300 pages of amendments were sitting next to the bill. The final bill that passed was never read by those voting yes.
Hopefully, the senate will shut this down. Not optimistic, but willing to stay hopeful for the time being.

President Obama promised action on climate change during the election and that is exactly what he is delivering.

I’m going to ramble a bit here, so please bear with me. My layman’s opinion on alternative energies is that technology, although moving at a rapid pace, is not quite there yet in order to be affordably mass produced.
Wind power, for example, sounds great; but until storage issues can be resolved through technological advancements it will not have a great affect except in individual cases.
Electric cars. Making great progress but the trip per charge needs to be longer in mileage and therefore cheaper. Until battery technology improves, it cannot be affordably mass produced. GM’s Volt will sell for about $45,000. How will that help a family making $30,000 a year? It won’t. Celebs will ride around in Tesla Motors cars that sell for 50-100 grand a year and get lots of publicity but Joe Worker will still have to rely on his gas car to get to work.
Solar power. Great idea, especially in the sun belt. But Homeowner’s Associations are not going to allow solar panels on cookie-cutter homes which is where most of sun-belt residents reside. Solar collectors need to be “invisible” like built into the roof tiles or something. As far as I’ve seen, it’s not there yet.
Solar powered cars. Same deal. No technology exists to make them affordable and look good. How about a paint job on a car that collects solar energy? Hmmm. That sounds great but technology again isn’t there yet. Or maybe a really small panel. Not there yet. It takes several development cycles to see the affects of Moore’s Law.
Those are a few examples I can think of while sipping my cup of java this morning. In my opinion, we are maybe 25-50 years away from these advancements. I hope less though. I really do. I’d love to drive around in an electric car that was big enough to protect me and my family yet have no impact on the environment. I think that a lot of people assume “the opposition” doesn‘t care what goes on around them. It’s just not true. For me, I have a basic distrust of the whole issue because of what I described above. It seems that as soon as “the life of the Jetsons“ became cool to think about, or we decided to return to “simpler times,” oil became true evil and was stonewalled on so many different fronts in this country. So we‘ve had no choice but to import our oil when no real alternatives ever existed or would exist for 50 years from when this all started. To me, that’s the real tragedy.

President Obama promised action on climate change during the election and that is exactly what he is delivering. Posted by: danita | Jun 27, 2009 1:56:43 PM
Add to the “broken promise” column: Obama prepares to hold Gitmo guys indefinitely, just as Bush did.
Leaked out on a Friday afternoon. Coward.

President Obama promised action on climate change during the election and that is exactly what he is delivering. Posted by: danita | Jun 27, 2009 1:56:43 PM
Do you think Obama read the bill? Anyone read it? They don’t even know what they are voting on. All Obama cares about is one key element must be in the bill caps and the taxes that result from it.
The bad news is, if it passes, which I don’t think it will: you’ll get to see the results. I hope you’ll be happy with it because you will own it.

Posted by: Traffic Cop Timmy | Jun 27, 2009 2:02:57 PM
Why did you omit nukes?

===Axey . .. .
Try to be honest here.===
I am honest. I know Obama claims it was taken out of context. I don’t believe it. I’ve heard the interview and the words were not out of context. They were in the context of bankrupting the coal industry.

Axey . …
Yes, I see it as a bad thing. You’re presuming the legislators don’t understand what they’re passing – if this is the case it’s been going on for years and that is a bad thing.

Well, I guess when the president is bragging about the jobs that will be created by this bill (while ignoring the larger number of jobs that will be lost because of it), he must be taking into account the jobs he is creating for those despised derivatives traders on Wall Street who will now be able to work trading carbon credits.

Right. As if you would know a) how bills are assessed by legislators, and b) what they do or don’t know.
You’re guessing and condemning because that is your political agenda.
And finally, if that’s the case that they don’t know what they’re voting on, then the people who voted against it don’t know what they’re voting on either . . .. and that includes the Republicans.
Posted by: danita | Jun 27, 2009 2:32:54 PM
We have Waxman on tape admitting he didn’t know what was in a bill. I think it is pretty common knowledge they rely on others to tell them what they need to know (as decided by their staff). And yes, the Republicans are just as guilty. Never said they weren’t.
These excerpts are from a 6/24/09 CBS News aricle:
“Last month, when Republicans tried to stall energy legislation with hundreds of amendments, Democrats hired a speed reader to get through them all.
“Let Freedom Ring, a non-profit, grassroots organization that supports a conservative agenda, announced an initiative today urging members of Congress to sign a pledge to read and give citizens the opportunity to read any health care reform legislation before voting on it.
“”For something as significant as health care reform, which influences 16 percent to 17 percent of GDP, I think it is important for legislators to know what they’re voting on, and not have lobbyists and staff members be the only ones who know what’s in there,” said Colin Hanna, Let Freedom Ring president.
“”The fastest speed-readers and the most intelligent minds can’t make informed decisions with that much time. How can Congress?” Sunlight Foundation Engagement Director Jake Brewer said today in a statement. “The problem here is the bill wasn’t developed in the open in a committee, so no one — including those members of Congress not on the Energy Committee — knows how this latest version was created.”

Traffic Cop Timmy . .. .
It seems to me that what you’re really saying is that legislators are not expected to do all the research and reading on bills – and that that responsibility actually falls to their staff and researchers.

It seems to me that what you’re really saying is that legislators are not expected to do all the research and reading on bills – and that that responsibility actually falls to their staff and researchers. Posted by: danita | Jun 27, 2009 3:01:49 PM
Did you even read the quotes?
“The fastest speed-readers and the most intelligent minds can’t make informed decisions with that much time. How can Congress?”
I’m sorry. I will have to pass on engaging you in further conversations. Don’t feel I’m being rude when I don’t respond. I just have nothing with which to counter a blind devotion argument.

“Critics of the House bill brand it a “jobs killer.” Yet it would seem more likely to shift jobs. Old, energy-intensive industries and businesses might scale back or disappear. Those green jobs would emerge, propelled by the push for nonpolluting energy sources.
That could mean making or installing solar panels, repairing wind turbines, producing energy-efficient light bulbs, working for an environmental engineering firm or waste recycler, making equipment that harnesses carbon from coal burning and churning out energy-saving washing machines or air conditioners.”
AP

“But critics have vastly overstated the likely cost. In fact, they’re all but lying. During the House debate, Republican whip Eric Cantor, using numbers from an American Petroleum Institute study, said that the bill would eventually cost more than $3,000 per family per year — but those numbers assume that billions of tons worth of inexpensive carbon offsets won’t be available under the bill, which would significantly inflate the overall cost. That’s not going to happen. A more reliable study from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office forecast that the bill would cost the average U.S. household $175 in higher energy costs annually by 2020 — and other studies estimate that the energy-efficiency provisions in the bill might even save Americans money over time.”
TIME

“producing energy-efficient light bulbs, working for an environmental engineering firm or waste recycler, … and churning out energy-saving washing machines or air conditioners.” Posted by: danita | Jun 27, 2009 3:33:45 PM
These industries and jobs already exist.
posted by Timmy . .
yes Timmy, but these industries will be expanded as will the number of jobs in those industries. Surely you can understand this.

“critics have vastly overstated the likely cost. In fact, they’re all but lying. During the House debate, Republican whip Eric Cantor, using numbers from an American Petroleum Institute study, said that the bill would eventually cost more than $3,000 per family per year . . . (a) more reliable study from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office forecast that the bill would cost the average U.S. household $175 in higher energy costs annually by 2020 . .. ”
TIME
That is by 2020!

James Danley . ….
Regrettably that would probably mean legislators would vote no on almost everything.

James Danley . ..
I think you missed my point; if legislators only voted ‘yes’ once they’d read and understood every bill for themselves . .. then few of the bills during the past decades would ever have passed – regardless of the president or the congress.

yes Timmy, but these industries will be expanded as will the number of jobs in those industries. Surely you can understand this. Posted by: danita | Jun 27, 2009 4:15:05 PM
Let the natural expansion and contraction of jobs occur in a free-market enterprise without interfering. Don’t try to artificially manipulate these industries because your friends are heavily invested, like Pelosi. Surely you understand this.

When the price of electricity, gas and food increase remember these words, Obama’s fault!
Obama better hope the Senate saves him from himself because if this Cap and Trade gets passed he will not get reelected because the GOP can then attribute every increase to him and one thing learned from the last election is, people vote from their wallets.

Now it’s up to the Senate to take the next step and I’m confident that in the coming weeks and months, the Senate will demonstrate the same commitment to addressing what is a tremendous challenge and an extraordinary opportunity….I look forward to continuing this work in the Senate so that Congress can send me a bill that I can sign into law.”
Any Senator who votes against the
will of the people and in favor of
this massive tax on the American
people will be out of office in 2010
and beyond!
Go ahead take this “bold step” and
you’ll be watching “The Bold and the
Beautiful” form the comfort of your
living room at home! I dare you!

Posted by: reaganfan | Jun 27, 2009 9:18:58 PM
Agreed. Call your Senators and say no! Tell them that if they vote for this travesty you will vote them out! Call through the WH switchboard to light it up!

The price of food will rise rapidly – leading to great hunger in this country and famine abroad. If you are not storing food – you should…

President Obama promised action on this issue during the election and now he’s delivering on that.
All the fear mongering is typical. If it isn’t smear, it’s fear.
We’ve seen this all before. Obama is destroying the economy. Sure thing, for those of you who missed it, the economy crashed at the end of the Bush administration.
Try to pay attention.

For you simpletons who believe the crash at THE END OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION was caused by Bush II, please perform the following maneuver:
1. Extend both arms forward;
2. Spread the fingers of both hands;
3. Pretend there is someone to hug;
4. Hug yourself.
GET A GRIP!!!!!
George Soros, “investment banker”, and contributor of over $250,000 to Obama’s Inauguration (hello, just his inauguration …) is a consistent bettor AGAINST the dollar. In fact, in an interview at the (what we think) low point of the economic downturn, Soros said “I’m having a lovely recession!” Please feel free to look it up.
It is an outrage that no one has noticed the seemingly coincidental rise in popularity between Barry Saetoro and George Soros’s manipulation of the U.S. economy during the 2008 election cycle.
GE (owner of NBC and MSNBC) has a deal struck with the Obama Administration to EARN TRILLIONS OF US DOLLARS in “climate change and energy efficiency”.
Good GOD, people … It is NOT ABOUT CHANGE … it is ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!
But then, the naked truth would be something incomprehensible by the dumbed-down masses, now wouldn’t it.
Same as it has been, same as it ever was, and same as it will ever be, in that filled-in swamp.
I take solace in the fact that I will die before I will have been forced out of my home THAT I PAY FOR, by the taxes imposed by this junior college professor in the White House that couldn’t run a hot-dog stand if he tried.
This country is blinded by the fact that the Marxist-in-Chief is just that, a naked Marxist (forget Socialist – that would be too “fair”) by the MSM.
Such a broad, sweeping takeover of “what the people see, what the people read, what the people hear” has not been seen since 1933, and not in this country. Chew on THAT.

‘Good GOD, people … It is NOT ABOUT CHANGE … it is ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!”
No, we think it IS about change. It’s about changing peoples behavior and attitudes about their effect on the atmosphere and it’s consequences. The arguments AGAINST these changes are all about money. Most Americans have become receptive to the idea that we should stop big polluters from pumping greenhouse gasses into the air and they are prepared to pay a little extra to do so instead of leaving the problem to their kids and grandkids.

“Cap and trade does not reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It’s just a tax on those greenhouse gases.”
It’s an incentive program instead of a mandate.
“Hasn’t reduced it in Europe”
-yet

Look into the future:
it hasn’t worked out that way in Europe, according to a study last year by the Government Accounting Office. The GAO is the nonpartisan fact-finding arm of Congress.
Emissions did fall 3% in 2008, but experts on both sides agree that that was largely due to the recession, which has reduced industrial output and energy usage.
Meanwhile, energy prices for end users have risen sharply. From 2004 to 2007, household energy costs rose by 16% on average in the 25 EU countries and industrial rates rose by 32%, according to the European Commission.

CO2 makes up less than one percent of the atmosphere. It is essential for life since it is what plants breathe in order to produce the oxygen that animals breathe.
The earth has been much warmer before… and much colder. There has been more C02 in the atmosphere before… but never much less during times where life has existed. It is essential to life. It is not a pollutant.
Climate changes – we cannot stop that. We also cannot predict it. The same models that predicted global warming (with many assumptions and much tweaking of the parameters) failed to predict the current cooling trend. Man-made global warming hysteria is just a way to get control of your liberties (and money).
Educate yourselves on this – don’t just follow blindly the “scientific consensus” as repeated endlessly by non-scientists like Mr. Gore.
Water vapor is a much more effective “greenhouse gas” than C02, and is present in much higher quantities as humidity.

Once you tax it, it becomes a revenue source for government WAIT not even government, more or less private derivatives carbon traders!!! So your taking money from the people and putting it into the hands of multinational, nongovernmental organizations.
Okay so private bankers get to make money off of CO2 emissions, which aren’t even pollution. (Carbon monoxide is pollution, carbon dioxide enhances plant growth hence the “greeenhouse effect”, a.k.a. why plants GROW in a greenhouse!!! LOL!) If you create a carbon starved enviroment plant growth actually DECREASES not increases!
So we are paying a tax to get less food production and eliminate most industrial production (a.k.a. jobs) creating unemployment and further poverty for ourselves, while China, India and everyhere BUT Europe and North America are exempt from these standards; meaning we have to use less resources to meet the demands of more people… Does this sound like insanity to anyone else yet!?!
If China, India and the rest ofthe developing world are exempt then this isn’t enviromentally sound. I don’t care wether you support the theory of enviromental danger or not. This is just choosing to subsidize one person’s pollution for another and creates more problems than even solves them.

Jen:”Back in the 70′s we were all concerned about global cooling. I remember being on that bandwagon. ”
That is a lie. There was NEVER any documented scientific consensus about global cooling. The National Academies of Science NEVER endorsed that theory. There is a distinction between a few flashy headlines and a decade long agreement between all of the worlds foremost scientific bodies you know.

“The cost of EVERYTHING will skyrocket as the rise in the cost for energy is passed on”
You’re exaggerating. Nobody has been able to show convincingly that there will be anything more than minor cost of living increases because of this plan.

“From 2004 to 2007, household energy costs rose by 16% on average in the 25 EU countries and industrial rates rose by 32%, according to the European Commission.”
Yes, energy prices went up everywhere during that time. Remember what gas and heating oil cost in the US in 2007? We didn’t have cap and trade here.

What about this. These are the only jobs that Obama says he has for American citizens. I really don’t think any of us want to have to pay $2900 to $3100 per year on a utility tax when we will still have to pay for the electricitym we use. How could anyone think that we will even be able to fill up the coffers in D.C. that way.
I really don’t want any national health plan and certainly no green taxes either. Give it up folks, we all could really be screwed.

“That is a lie. There was NEVER any documented scientific consensus about global cooling.”
++++++++++++
Another point I forgot to make…I NEVER said there was “documented scientific consensus about global cooling.” Don’t change the argument. I said that back in the 70′s the concern was about global cooling. That’s a fact.

I really don’t think any of us want to have to pay $2900 to $3100 per year on a utility tax when we will still have to pay for the electricity we use”
You’re exaggerating too. Again: nobody has been able to show that the cost will be this high.

“I’m pretty sure the GAO is aware of fluctuating oil prices when coming out with a study revealing Cap and Trade is not working in Europe.”
I agree, but you cited two different sources: the GAO and the European Commission, so I thought you were making your own connection.

And it is household energy costs and industrial rates. I’m under the impression that means electricity and heating not gasoline prices. Heating oil prices rising may have been factored in, but wouldn’t cause such a spike. But not all households use heating oil. The argument that the increase is from oil prices seems like misdirection.

“Pretty sad that we are ruining our economy for some faith based hypothesis that fails every test it performs.”
You must have missed it – the economy went into virtual free-fall collapse during the last of the Bush administration.
‘faith-based’ – global warming due to pollution has very solid scientific support. ‘Faith-based’ is when you attack another country because you think ‘God’ told you.

“The earth has been cooling for 7 years, which puts the lie to Danita’s claim of any science behind global warming.”
Don’t be foolish, it’s not my claim . . . it’s what a solid majority of scientists have determined to be true.

Again, let’s not be foolish . ..
The basic conclusions about global warming have been endorsed by more than 45 scientific societies and academies of science, including ALL of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries.

Again, let’s not be foolish . ..
The basic conclusions about global warming have been endorsed by more than 45 scientific societies and academies of science, including ALL of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries.

June 21, 2009
“Global sea levels will climb about 39 inches by 2100 — 69% more than the most dire forecast made in 2007 by the United Nations’ climate panel, according to the study released last week in Brussels, Belgium.
Advertisement
The forecast was based on new findings, including that Greenland’s ice sheet is losing 179 billion tons of ice a year.”

WASHINGTON: A new study has determined that the Greenland ice sheet is melting faster than expected, and is consequently responsible for nearly 25 percent of global sea rise in the past 13 years.
The study shows that since 1995, the ice sheet lost an average of 265 cubic kilometers per year . . . “

“We are you all hunkered down at your computers?”
I’ve spent a lot of time outside enjoying my garden today. I just pop by the computer every now and then to defend cap and trade because I have a vested interest in it. I live in south Florida, and if the right-wingers get their way I’m going to have to put my house on 20ft stilts and buy a boat.

If the MORONS who are OK with this Bill actually knew what
was in the Bill, they would be screaming like stuck pigs. Contrary
to what this lying Maniac says, this is a job-killer, just like it
was in Australia before they scrapped the whole thing. It
means skyrocketing increases in all energy used by American
families. Each family of four will pay an average of $2400.00 or MORE
per year MORE for their electricity, gasoline, natural gas, etc. If you
have a home you want to sell, you will have to spend a fortune to
bring it up to Obama-Standards (green) and replace all non-conforming
windows, appliances, etc before it can be listed. This is Big
Brother in action, folks, and you are losing your freedoms by the
minute. It does help to contact your Representatives and Senators
over and over, even if they are brain-dead Democrats like mine.
Call, Email and Fax your Senators and tell them to scrap this
huge TAX on the American people!!

There are over 700 International Scientists and Climatologists who have a dissenting opinion of the Global Warming HOAX! Kool-Aid Drinkers won’t even consider another opinion even though this is the life-work of these talented men and women. Just a few short years ago there were dozens of books being written about the Doom and Gloom Scenario of Global Cooling and The Coming ICE AGE!! Our planet has always had cooling and warming and will continue to do so for the next Billion years or so. Liberals are nutballs who have bought in to the HYPE! Al Gore is an idiot who stands to make BILLIONS of of this SCAM!!

Getting back to being foolish, despite all the academies and associations of science this and that you keep running square into the facts. The earth has not warmed since 1998 and has been demonstrably cooling for the last 7 years. These are facts from the actual government agencies NASA, NCDC, Hadley Center, Rss satellite, UAH satellite, ect. Despite what politicaly appointed directors may say might the facts from the Data sets show that global surface temps are cooling, ocean temps are cooling. Ocean levels are not rising as fast as predicted. The FACT is that there is no global warming manmade or otherwise. That isn’t opinion, that isn’t a prediction, that isn’t a wish, It is just what the actual FACTS are like it or not, go look them up. Given the facts it seems foolish to throw away 800 billion on some thing that isn’t happening. Again look up the facts.

Dollar bills flutter
Like autumn leaves, wind blown
Cap and Trade takes all…

NO GLOBAL WARMING IN CLEVELAND!!! TRUST ME!!

Lets’ not be foolish here . ..
The basic conclusions about global warming have been endorsed by more than 45 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries.

I wonder, why did they name it Greenland?

NASA Godard Institute for Space Studies reports that . . .
“2008 is the ninth warmest year in the period of instrumental measurements, which extends back to 1880. The ten warmest years all occur within the 12-year period 1997-2008.”
Where do you right wingers get off with these distorted lies that the earth has not warmed since 1998?

Traffic Cop Timmy . …
Yes, why bother recycling, just keep wasting.

Traffic Cop Timmy . …
Yes, why bother recycling, just keep wasting. Posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 9:02:37 PM
What part of my comments said I wasn’t recycling. Tell me ol’ wise one. I said my city did not have a recycling plan. I did not say I did not recycle; you ASSUMED it. If you are not going to accurately read my comments, why bother responding? Could it be that your BSD and prejudices are blinding you?
I do recycle, in fact, and it hurts me when I cannot. The company where I work has a good program.
My point – which you didn’t bother to respond to – was that many programs are not easily implemented and when they are, the cost is passed on to the consumers – a fact you ignore because you are willing to make that decision for everyone. You look down on people who do not want to pay for whatever reason. Maybe they cannot afford it, maybe they don’t agree with it, maybe they don’t care. It doesn’t matter to you – you belittle them because you find your position a more loftier one.
So get off your high horse danita, and respond rather than react.

With all your insulting language “tell me oh wise one” etc. . . who exactly is on their high horse here?

Yes, Timmy . . . things cost money. Do you still live at your parents or something?

Same as when Bush ran up the national debt from $5 trillion to $10 trillion dollars. That money was not free. It has to be paid for from somewhere. And on top of that the country’s economy was in virtual free-fall collapse when he left office. This stuff has to be paid for.

See comments posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 9:11:15 PM
I like to trust but verify so I went to that site and was reading the following:
GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies) Surface Temperature Analysis
“The basic GISS temperature analysis scheme was defined in the late 1970s by James Hansen when a method of estimating global temperature change was needed for comparison with one-dimensional global climate models. Prior temperature analyses, most notably those of Murray Mitchell, covered only 20-90°N latitudes. Our rationale was that the number of Southern Hemisphere stations was sufficient for a meaningful estimate of global temperature change, because temperature anomalies and trends are highly correlated over substantial geographical distances.”
“Our first published results (Hansen et al. 1981) showed that, contrary to impressions from northern latitudes, global cooling after 1940 was small, and there was net global warming of about 0.4°C between the 1880s and 1970s.”
Does “the number of Southern Hemisphere stations was sufficient for a meaningful estimate of global temperature change” mean what I think it means? This sounds like they changed their methods to measure temps in the Southern Hemisphere because they deemed it efficient and “what do you know,” temps are rising faster now!
And this happened in the 1970s when pollution and the environment started to become a hot topic?
And it only went up 0.4°C in 90 years but now that they have changed there methods it is going up faster? I guess it wasn’t getting warmer on its own so we had to help it along a little?
Hey, I’m obviously no scientist and maybe I’m not interpreting this correctly, but this sounds fishy to me.

“I’m obviously no scientist and maybe I’m not interpreting this correctly”
On this we are in agreement.

Posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 9:46:43 PM
Posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 9:45:20 PM
Posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 9:43:39 PM
Posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 9:41:25 PM
THIS is why people don’t like to engage each other in conversation. Where does that get us?
Agreed. We are paying one way or the other. And in some ways I agree with you about the issues. It’s like the saying that there is no good time to have children. There is no good time to do this so why not do it now. But recycling is not the issue. That is clearly a good thing. I only brought it up to show that costs must be passed on. Your rebuttal – even though I had to dig for it – is clear. We pay one way or the other.
However, global warming is the issue here and I am not convinced that it is a unequivocally a crisis. I feel that whether or not people have hidden agendas is a real question. It does happen. You certainly suspect it of “those right wingers.” Is it even remotely possible that a “left winger” might have a hidden agenda?
So while you feel that President Obama is being proactive and fulfilling a campaign promise, I feel he is “up to something,” as they say.
Now. To be clear. I do not live with my parents, danita. I started working at 16 years old and at 57 am still working. With the exception of a few months here and there to change jobs, I have always worked. I have never claimed bankruptcy, although I have had debt problems in my life. I got through them and paid them. I own my own home. OK?

Your suspicions about President Obama are just that . . . suspicions. Nothing more.
People come on here to smear the President. Some people are on here every day, and smear the President regardless of the issue. He got smeared by these people for not praising Michael Jackson as a god. He got smeared for taking his children for an ice cream. It doesn’t matter to the hate spammers – the point is simply to smear the President.
If you read below you will find people who said Australia scrapped their Cap and Trade system because so many jobs were lost – if you research it, you’ll find the Cap and Trade laws have not even made it through their parliament. So, plain and simple lies to discredit the President. That’s not ‘suspecting’ right wingers, that’s catching them lying.
If you read below, you’ll find ‘right wingers’ saying the earth has not warmed since 1998 – which again is misleading distortion of truth when you research and find that “The ten warmest years (since 1880) all occur within the 12-year period 1997-2008.” This isn’t ‘suspicion’ of ‘right wingers’ – its catching them misleading people with distortions of the truth.
Go ahead and be suspicious if you must – but don’t pretend it’s reality.

There’s a dinosaur in your closet Timmy.

There’s a dinosaur in your closet Timmy.
Posted by: danita | Jun 28, 2009 10:32:11 PM
Not in my closet…

And then they quickly changed it from global warming to climate change. Because it really is still warming but they liked the phrase climate change better, or something. Whatever works to keep the faith alive!

And so, danita, we come to the point where you just continually insult me, question my ability to understand and reason, throw in the word “seriously” to emphasize the insult, resulting in your superiority on all subjects. I’ve been here before with you. I believe I’ll just try to avoid you from now on.

C02 is .038% of the atmosphere. Manmade contribution is about 3% of that, or .00114%. Of that, 20% is from the US, or about .000228%. The amount of C02 reduced by the Waxman-Markey bill affects about .000039% of the atmosphere.
Only the US is affected by Waxman-Markey. Only the US economy is damaged. Waxman-Markey will do nothing for the atmosphere- at best it only delays “warming” for a few years.
Ironically, the planet has been cooling for the last ten years in spite of increasing C02 levels. A report by the CEI was suppressed by the EPA so as to not affect the vote on this garbage legislation.
No one has read the final bill when the House voted on it, which is becoming a trend that shows how generally stupid Congress is.
Obama called this travesty “carefully written”, which is an absolute lie. Emission levels can be altered, carbon leakage is not prevented, this moronic bill is full of loopholes for California and Massachusetts.
One has to be a complete idiot to think this has anything to do with improving the climate.

There is an interesting article on today’s The Wall Street Journal’s Opinion Journal (online) entitled “The Climate Change Climate Change (The number of skeptics is swelling everywhere).”
Here are two excerpts:
“Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting. It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who disagreed with them as “deniers.” The backlash has brought the scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and even, if less reported, the U.S.”
“The collapse of the ‘consensus’ has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth’s temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.”
The global warming advocates have been using totally inaccurate data to make their claim. In fact, an estimated 89% of the weather reporting stations in the United States failed to meet the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) standards. The temperature measuring equipment at these weather reporting stations are required to be at least 100 feet from any artificial heat source or reflecting and radiating sources. Yet many of these weather reporting stations were surrounded by parking lots and roads or too close to sidewalks and buildings. This results in greatly inflated “official” temperatures.

Posted by: James Danley | Jun 29, 2009 8:25:30 AM
Quite right. Many sensors are located over tarmac in cities.

“There is an interesting article on today’s The Wall Street Journal’s Opinion Journal (online) entitled”
At least you identified who made the quote James but there are hardly any environmentalists who wouldn’t tell you Wall Street Journal editorials have a notorious right-wing slant. In this case they’re farming data for big businesses that don’t want to clean up or reduce their emissions.

“Here we go again with the Obama/Axelrod/KGB tactics. Attack the messenger rather than engage the issue.”
OK I’ll address one of the issues, but I can’t address them all. I don’t have all day.
For instance all this emphasis about senors telling us if the Earth is warming or cooling or not. Atmospheric senors are of limited value anyway. The atmosphere stores little latent heat. If you shut off the sun all the heat would radiate off into space in a matter of hours. By far most of the latent heat is stored in the oceans in millions of cubic miles of water. The only real indicator of whether or not the Earth is really warming up is whether the oceans are getting warmer or not and we just can’t answer that definitively because we have nowhere near enough sensors around the oceans to tell. Most indicators however are showing that the oceans are getting warmer. The strongest evidence is pretty apparent: the great ice sheets are without exception melting rapidly and sea levels are definitely rising.

“Here we go again with the Obama/Axelrod/KGB tactics. Attack the messenger rather than engage the issue.”
I do look at these discussions as being more like a courtroom than a debate I admit. I like to challenge the witnesses, though not necessarily personally. In this case I didn’t consider it a personal attack on the Wall Street Journal to question their motives. They are the newspaper of corporate American aren’t they?

“They are the newspaper of corporate American aren’t they?”
Are you next going to tell me that Chrissie Matthews is a journalist?
I think the WSJ is pretty fair in opinion but in terms of news it’s far more objective than the Times.

Hansen is widely discredited. Posted by: drjohn | Jun 29, 2009 8:34:49 AM
I found that out last night after researching some of the GISS information posted here. Some of what I brIt appears he has become as much an acwsed through seems to show that Hansen is as much a political activist as a scientist. And from a July, 2008 article by Amy Ridenour:
“NASA scientist James Hansen, a high-ranking government employee, appeared in a Congressional committee meeting room June 23 to say CEOs of fossil energy companies “should be tried for high crimes against humanity and nature.”
“Their crime: Disagreeing with him.”
Also:
“Hansen blames campaign contributions by lobbyists wearing alligator shoes for the decision of Senators such as Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) to oppose the bill’s limits on energy use.”
And:
“When Canadian mining engineer Steve McIntyre discovered in 2007 that the U.S. government’s NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies — led by Hansen — had screwed up its figures and erroneously (and conveniently, for Hansen) reported that 1998 is the warmest year on record instead of 1934, Hansen flipped out. He referred to those who caught the error as “court jesters,” charging they did the bidding of unnamed captains of industry.”

=== charging they did the bidding of unnamed captains of industry.”===
I wondered where that phrase came from, since it is used over and over by those who have bought AGW or in its newest phase, climate change, hook line and sinker.

Don’t forget to contact your Senators today and express your opinion of this legislation. Either for or against (it’s a free country). It is very important that citizens voice their opinion to their elected representatives.

“The funny part is many of our jobs will go to China and India” Posted by: Jaye | Jun 29, 2009 12:09:25 PM
Just one of many, Intel is doing that now. Plants built around the world – the latest being built right now in China. Huge assembly and test plant ready to open in Vietnam by the end of the year: 500,000 square feet of factory space (nine U.S. football fields). Meanwhile, they have closed some of their older plants in the U.S. (too costly to upgrade no doubt).
They will still police their own as they are very environmentally conscious. But no jobs for the U.S. unfortunately.

Is anyone in news going to ask why AND how legislation gets a vote when the paperwork hasn’t even been read through and studied? How can a 300 page amendment get “slipped in” at the last minute into the 1200 page Cap and Trade Act??? Is it not COMMON SENSE that our elected officials need to take time to study the documents before putting forth a major vote on what will be the most INTRUSIVE legislation ever passed?
Also, is there ANY news organization out there that will inquire as to why the house reps that voted FOR HR 2454 went totally AGAINST what their constituents asked for?? I tell you what – November 2010 just absolutely cannot get here fast enough!!
People need to call congress and send letters AND make a showing that either they listen to us – or hit the door!
Where are the news organizations that will stand up for the American people???

“…THEIR ECONOMY KEEPING PACE WITH THE REST OF THE COUNTRY…”
California’s unemployment rate is 11.5%. And there is a $24 billion deficit.”
California’s economy is actually ahead of many states even with their myriad of problems.

“I’m sure the 11.5% of the working population find your remarks very comforting.”
For nearly 40 years California has been the major economic engine in this country.
Being at or near the top of economic growth year after year.

For nearly 40 years California has been the major economic engine in this country. Being at or near the top of economic growth year after year. Posted by: Ryan C | Jun 29, 2009 4:03:01 PM
Quotes from the Oakland Tribune in 2007:
“A dozen states have overtaken California in terms of gross state product growth in the past few years. Difficulties in the small business sector are part of the reason.
“By 2005, California slipped to 17th place in gross state product, or GSP, growth, although its pace changed little, growing at 4.3 percent. Others, however, zoomed past at more than twice that rate.
“if more small firms are opened than closed, the state will grow faster. California is in the middle of the pack in terms of the expansion of the small business sector, according to the Business Information Tracking Series at the Census Bureau.”
Also – according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis – California was in the 2nd to the lowest quintile for 2007-2008 at 0.4%. Most of the highest were in flyover country.

So the last year, wipes out California being an economic leader for 40? Posted by: Ryan C | Jun 29, 2009 4:31:09 PM
While your previous statement that “California’s economy is actually ahead of many states” is technically true, it infers a false sense of everything is “not that bad” in California.
With a quick search, I could only find data starting at 2005 it had slipped to 17th place (at a time incidently when many states were heating up). In 2007-2008 it is close to the bottom.
I would be interested to see pre-2005 data.

Here are some facts from the U. S. Department of Labor!
On Jan 1976 there were 8,824,067 employed in California;
On Dec 1979 there were 10,762,853 employed in California–a net gain of 1,938,786 for the 4 years.
On Dec 1989 there were 14,060,844 employed in California–a net gain of 3,297,991 in the 1980s.
On Dec 1999 there were 15,782,468 employed in California–a net gain of 1,721,624 in the 1990s.
On May 2009* there were 16,386,653* employed in California–a net gain of 604,185* so far in the 2000s.
*Preliminary totals

Nevada is an anomaly. From about 1983 to 2007, just in Clark County (includes Las Vegas and Henderson) over 1,500 homes PER MONTH were built; with nearly 6,000 new residents PER MONTH. An extremely large percentage of this migration was from California due to its anti-business practices; and Nevada’s pro-business practices.

I am convinced this nimrod wants us all in the soup line. He has to be making an effort to take America down, which leads me to believe he is just plain evil.
He wants to break the coal industry. Perhaps they aren’t union friendly? Surely we could put some funding towards cleaning up the industry rather than just bankrupting it?
He won’t consider nuclear energy…why is that? Just look to France…nuclear works!
He won’t drill.
He’s thrown in some rubbish at 3 am in this bill regarding a new federal agency to inspect and rate all home for sale and require sellers to bring their homes up to green speed in order to sell…now that’s a GREAT idea in this market.
He has to be intentionally trying to break us. He has to break our existing economy, our free markets…to build his empire of socialism.
Is this what we teach in Ivy’s?

“Energy costs to skyrocket” Obama’s own words. I am having a very difficult time paying my utilities now. A bill costing big bucks for all with dubious results – is this guy nuts??