POTUS Call from France for Congress to Deliver on Health Care Arouses Angry Tweets From Key GOP Senator

Health care for all USA citizens and showing love to to our friends in Europe is more important.
- European Media to Obama: Where’s the Local Love.
Kisses from America to Europe!
As for Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa he can kiss my a..!

Speaking of the European press, they’re upset that Obama’s not rendezvous-ing with Nicolas.
I on the other hand am very glad that Obama spent his sightseeing time with his young FAMILY and they’re daughter whose birthday it is instead of fake french frivolty which probably would have felt like work for Obama instead of relaxation.
I’m glad Obama’s priority is family, the consternation of royalty and French media be as it may.

Awwwww, what a nice little president. Obama is seeking media attention along with the demanding wife and spoiled children. He is nothing but an attention grabber. He speaks and condescends, if you pay attention to what he really says with his carefully manipulated and constructed speeches, you will see that it is all fluff and no remedy.
Wake up America.. you are looking at the biggest scam artist to walk the planet.

good for the european media–making totus uncomfortable for a change! sounds like a spoiled child. do european media not know that Potus does not speak to then without totus? Us media , with the exception of foxnews and john king are Obama flunkies and behind kissers.

Us Democrats have a wide bandwidth which is need after 8 years of Republicans running this country into the ground.

I’m convinced:
People in higher income groups will pay the same or more for healthcare plus pay higher taxes
People in middle groups, slightly lower premiums and higher taxes (a wash)
People in lower income groups will have access to rationed care and the same E.R. style subterranean non-system that is currently employed…

Wow. The health insurance industry shills must be spending our premium dollars on overtime for their employees to post comments to websites trashing health care reform. I don’t like my private health insurance; I like my doctor. I don’t care who pays my doctor. I want real choice when it comes to choosing my doctor, not three degrees of separation wherein an employer chooses my health insurer, and then my health insurer tells me who is in-network that they will pay. This is a non-system fraught with waste. Of course if you remove the insurance broker as middle man you will save money. It’s economics 101. I don’t care if I pay for health care through a tax that comes out of my paycheck if I’m paying less than my current premiums. At the current rate of arbitrary increases in premiums, we will be spending 20% of our income on helath care in no time. Why? So that my local sports team can play in Blue Cross Arena, and they can waste my premium dollars on exorbitant CEO salaries? No thanks.

MNM:”Don’t destroy our system that works so well.”
The FACT is that Americans pay about double what other first world nations pay for healthcare. The FACT is that those other first world nation have longer life expectancies (and they do not have the cultural obsession with keeping folks alive on machines months or even year past a natural death).
So, they pay half as much for health care, everyone has it, their businesses are not drug down by the cost, and they live longer. That’s documented reality.
Anecdotal, every friend and family I know, from the student who returned home to Canada to deal with a brain tumor to four aunts in the UK, who lives under a nationalized healthcare system prefers it to America’s profit driven HMO rationed approach.

Titletown:”How will people be able to afford healthcare after cap and trade envirowacko legislation that forces us to drive matchbox cars when gas hits $5 a gallon? ”
If gas hit $5 a gallon due to government taxes on gasoline, that revenue would almost fully fund free healthcare for everyone. At a minimum, it would be a huge boon to business, although if the marketplace works (and it usually does), that $3-$8k per worker savings will show up in your paycheck.

Posted by: MNM
haven’t seen such paranoia since ‘chicken little’

The FACT is that Americans pay about double what other first world nations pay for healthcare. The FACT is that those other first world nation have longer life expectancies (and they do not have the cultural obsession with keeping folks alive on machines months or even year past a natural death).
So, they pay half as much for health care, everyone has it, their businesses are not drug down by the cost, and they live longer. That’s documented reality.
Anecdotal, every friend and family I know, from the student who returned home to Canada to deal with a brain tumor to four aunts in the UK, who lives under a nationalized healthcare system prefers it to America’s profit driven HMO rationed approach.
Posted by: jhw539 | Jun 7, 2009 8:11:04 AM
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Your facts are wrong and made up wholly. The wait statistics and the limits in medical service and treatment are well documented and I would urge anyone who does not believe the severe rationing to go online and google any EU country or canada and add the term health care rationing or cancer survival statistics.
As far as payments you are only referring to the premium they charge for health care, or did any of you think you would not pay a premium. One that is higher than your current health insurance.
You have to add the higher taxes they pay as well. In all of these countries the taxes are almost double what we pay with a high of 70%. While that is not called a health care premium it in fact supplements their retirement and health care programs.
The Obama people do not deny this but I have heard them argue that even though you will actually be paying more you will be happier and in receiving rationed care you will actually be getting more. Now they tend to smirk while trying to get us to believe this.
Use your common sense and check the facts yourself. They are easy to find and we can argue all day while posters bring out fake aunts and uncles.
I have an aunt in great britain who can afford to travel and pay for her health care instead of accepting the waits and limitations of the British system.
There is a whole industry of health care tourism, you should google the term and find out for yourselves why this is such a huge industry!
Another poster said it well that if the canadian system works so well why did their top official pay to go to california to have her breast cancer diagnosed and treated,.
How many of you can afford to pay higher taxes, a health care premium, and when you are stuck with the system, also afford to travel and pay for all your health care out of pocket.
Obama will not tell us what the premiums will be. He will not tell us the truth on tax hikes.
He wants to pass all his spending programs first and we will pay later.
His stimulus was supposed to keep unemployment at or below 8%, but we are at 9.4% now. We knew this was just a system of payoffs, but they passed it and it is too late now. The unemployment rate is expected to rise over 10% and inflation is , even by Obama’s financial people, going to skyrocket, meaning your groceries, rent and anything else you buy will cost more.
All because Obama keeps spending money we don’t have!
Now he wants to spend on healthcare, that is rationed. They will tell you it is rationed, they claim we “use” too much health care. What exactly do you think Obama means by that?

Jhw, I realize you have a positive spin for everything, but Titletown makes an excellent point when expressing concern about gas hitting $5. Your response focuses on the tax revenue the government would gain– and grossly exaggerates how far that would go in providing funding for health care. You seem enthusiastic about the prospect of higher gas taxes, as many Democrats do, but I am not.
Also, as oil prices rise, the gas price will be high even prior to the imposition of cap-and-trade expenses and
taxes. Remember the last time gas prices spiked? It had an adverse effect on the economy and especially on the pocketbooks of the working class. It would in the future as well. Also, higher prices lead to decreased demand (one of the advantages some champion, as that means we use less imported oil, right?), so the tax revenue would perhaps not be as high as anticipated. (I’ve always wondered about ‘sin’ taxes intended to reduce consumption of liquor or cigarettes while simultaneously raising funds from a group that is ‘making a choice’ rather than from a larger pool, such as those who buy food and would be hit by higher taxes on food in general, for example.)
You say that the savings would be passed on to our pocketbooks, but I’m not sure I understand what you are saying at that point. If you mean, the money we save on healthcare, that would not be the case for those in good health (the young, etc.) whose spending on health care is not much to start with (unlike some of us who are over 40 and starting to develop more expensive health problems). If you mean the money companies are currently spending on health insurance, I remain dubious about any such savings that are not offset by increased taxation until I see the plan for myself. But as I say, I was unclear about what you were saying.
Oh, and rather than add another post directed at you, lest it seem I’m picking on you, I will remind you that we have previously disagreed about the “anecdotal evidence” concerning how satisfied those in countries with government health care (canada and england, in particular) truly are. You say your friends and acquaintances are universally pleased, but mine are certainly not.

II, why drag John McCain into this? He has not castigated the president on the subject of health care reform– yet. He was very critical of the stimulus plan, and well he should have been. He does what he has always done– works across the aisle when he thinks the ideas are there and opposes the ideas of the opposing party when he disagrees. Did you hear him denounce Sotomayor? Well, no, you did not. Did you read that he criticized the President’s speech in Cairo? Again, no. Sometimes he keeps his mouth shut even when I long for him to speak up. But he is an excellent senator and does not deserve your scorn. (Not that I think Grassley or Graham deserve it, either.)

From rasmussen:
Voters remain closely divided on the urgency for health care reform, given the troubled state of the economy.
Forty-six percent (46%) believe the Obama administration should move ahead with health care reform, while 45% say it should wait until the economy improves, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.

obama would not have to travel so much if Bush had not made such a mess of our foreign affairs. Face to face works best when people first meet a new prez and to repair our Image with world.The Senate is working the weekend..BOO HOO then they take off half the year and leave alot of things hanging while Obama works 24/7 no matter where he is, he is working. I sent the nail a lovely twitter response to his tantrum :) I love twitter!

Fix Medicaire then get back to me.

I believe that rationing and “Duty to Die” philosophies will be rammed down our throats. We will all be subject to cost effectiveness rationing, courtesy of the Council of Comparative Effectiveness Research. How else will it get all be equalized and paid for? (on top of Zeke Emanuel’s VAT tax, and the lifestyle/behavior modification taxes on soft drinks, alcohol, transportation, etc…)
This is particularly distressing for a 50 yr old cancer survivor who will be living strong and fighting cancer for the rest of their life, being regularly monitored with (MRI, CT and PET) scans, and successfully treated with new and innovative treatments…
This survivor would not be alive any longer under the UK health rationing scheme, or the EU health rationing scheme, or the Canadian health rationing scheme – due to the fact that the treatments received in the US are still not approved or considered cost effective based on the standard of whether the “incremental cost per life-year saved remains lower than gross domestic product per capita.” Yes, that is how it is determined in those countries rationed health schemes.
And it has already been promised that one method to cut costs is to cut back the “excessive” use of diagnostic scans such as MRI, CT and PET. Well, there goes the leg up a cancer patient has while fighting the disease.
What this administration will do to gut the tremendous quality of our care based on personal choice in order to equalize/collectivize coverage for all is a travesty. I only hope that some of the more disgraceful aspects of what will be rammed down our throats can be reversed in coming years by more reasonable thinkers.

MNM:”The FACT is that Americans pay about double what other first world nations pay for healthcare. The FACT is that those other first world nation have longer life expectancies (and they do not have the cultural obsession with keeping folks alive on machines months or even year past a natural death).
So, they pay half as much for health care, everyone has it, their businesses are not drug down by the cost, and they live longer. That’s documented reality.
Posted by: jhw539 | Jun 7, 2009 8:11:04 AM
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Your facts are wrong and made up wholly.”
You cannot simply deny reality. Anyone who cares to debate on reality, please google up:
health care spending united states OECD per capita
(It is undisputed we pay twice as much – or more – per person for healthcare.)
life expectancy
(It is likewise undisputed that nationalized health care countries have longer life expectancies.)
Please try to remain in reality when you debate.

I give you SHEEP data and facts ..
…a real discussion instead of insults.
Posted by: MNM
LOL…. you can’t even write a short paragraph without contradicting yourself…
BTW: re: healthcare
you left out the part that says Obama is directly responsible for the common cold….

William:”The President is shoving down the throat of average Americans his idea of health care improvement whether or not it is best for the country.”
He was elected by a solid majority of average Americans to implement health care. And what, exactly, is “his idea”? At this point, he’s pulled together round tables and is pushing to get something done – but he has very clearly and explicitly left on the table working out what exactly will be done. The right/insurance companies want mandated insurance coverage, while the left wants nationalized healthcare like other first world nations. Your assertion that Obama is ramming “his idea” of healthcare through clearly indicates you have no idea what is actually going on.

Jhw, thanks for responding with some figures. However, I would dispute the $2K per capita figure for health care. You are talking for health care itself, not for insurance, right? Yes, I realize there are estimates like that out there, I’m just saying they are not realistic (sorta like the economic projections upon which the Obama administration bases its claims about future deficits).
I will be the first to admit, of course, that I am not an economic professor and that I have not crunched the numbers.
And actually, I think that $5 gas DID damage the economy. Some say it was a major contributing factor in the current recession (not to minimize the housing/banking disaster). And it was temporary– you are talking permanent. A permanent tax of over $2 a gallon on the national level would change consumer behavior– the working poor could not drive as much as they currently do under those conditions, for openers, and if you find a way to subsidize their costs, that changes the math again, right? Changed behavior would mean reduced consumption, which would mean reduced revenue, which would mean adding other ways to pay for the health care or reducing the level of care available.
I think this gas tax plan is a nonstarter.

JHW – I believe it is you who has no idea what is really going on… he was elected by a majority of people who have no clue what the health coverage debate entails beyond the fact that they want something for free. I am not one of the 52% who elected him, which is barely a majority, much less a “solid” one. Why must I suffer health care mandates and rationing? Why shouldn’t I have choices if I want to pay for them?
The devil is in the details. Cost containment is a real issue. One that can be handled smartly and effectively without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is what many fear his plan will eventually do. To make a utopian/collectivist health care scheme work, rationing will become necessary. Duty to die will is an evil undercurrent of rationing. These types of ethical and moral societal and biomedical questions and philosophies are not necessary in a free market/choice based system. Get back to us when you are diagnosed with a terrifying yet manageable disease, and see how rationing and lack of choices feels to you then.

“No one is going to go to medical school to work for the government – at least no one you want for your doctor.”
So you’re saying I want someone for my doctor who went to medical school to get rich.

“Actually, it’s two memoirs and a number of very well written speeches.”
One memoir written by William Ayres and most of those speeches written by Jon Favreau. I guess it’s impressive to be able to use the work of others and take credit for it so masterfully.
“Not to mention an impressive educational resume”
So we’re told. Have you seen any of the transcripts? Who says he didn’t have the same “gentleman’s C” average of George Bush?
He’s just another phony politician, in otherwords a professional liar.

And yes, it is Obama’s fault. Our labor and business markets are proactive, not reactive. With Obama promising big new taxes on businesses, big new taxes on investment, and big new regulations on pretty much everything in the country why in the world would we expect businesses and entrepreneurs to engage in the sort of expansion and investment necessary to create jobs and prosperity?

Obama can proudly say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED on destroying the greatest economic power in the world in 100 days.

So you’re saying I want someone for my doctor who went to medical school to get rich.
~~~
Yes

GO OBAMA!
If you want healthcare reform, it’s not enough to let Obama do all the heavy lifting.
We need to call our reps and let them know that we want the same government healthcare plan that they have!

Obama is going to charge us a high premium for rationed health care.
Our cancer and heart disease survival rates will suffer.
We will wait and wait for tests to diagnose problems, if they allow us to test at all and then you will get back in line and wait some more for a government approved treatment. Dollars will rule the diagnosis and treatment decisions NOT what is the best course of treatment for you.
Those of you who remember upset when insurance companies would not pay for things like bone marrow transplants will look on that as the good old days.
You will have no choices and you will wait and you may or may not be approved for treatment.
Read Tom Daschle’s book on health care. He openly outlines how we expect too much from health care like knee and hip replacements on demand.
Daschle was Obama’s guy to run health care before his tax cheating issues got in the way.
Obama will not tell us what the premium for this limited and rationed health care will be and he will not tell the truth about how everyone’s taxes will go up, not just the rich.
Obama openly lied about all his spending plans and today his own guy, Austin Goolsbee, tells us golly gee whiz the spending is having the opposite effect on the economy than what we predicted.
NO ONE who understands the economy thought overspending and quadrupling the deficit would create jobs and somehow help the economy. The only people that were helped were Obama union and other supporters.
This health care is just another opportunity to get into your wallet and control every little thing about our lives that he possibly can.
This is not america, this is some 3rd world socialism.
Even today in Europe they are sick of the taxes and costs for all the social programs and threw the left out. The right is winning in many countries from Spain to Germany to Great Britain.
They are tired of the tax and spend policies of the left and we should pay attention to that instead of making the same mistakes because the Obamasiah who like royalty has an unprecedented food taster, tells us to.
Obama lies and is out for himself not for us.
The US public is evenly divided on this health care issue. There is no majority who wants this to happen. We need to speak up and tell our congressman and senators to stop the spending and stop the health care debacle they are planning.
They have bankrupted medicare and social security and now they want to screw up health care too. Are they kidding??

Jon F, I really enjoyed reading your comment. I completely agree– I’m tired of this “rush rush rush” mentality, where President Obama pushes Congress to rush through another of his big ideas without giving anyone time to give it thought or organize opposition. I remember how they rammed the stimulus plan through, swearing that every day wasted brought us closer to disaster, then let the bill sit for a couple of days so the President could sign it in Colorado, rather than simply doing it at the White House. No one had read the whole thing. It was no surprise when little surprises kept popping up afterwards.
—————
They were surprises to us not to the dems.
There is method to the madness of rush and rush.
If we had a chance to analyze the details these spending and fake stimulus bills would never pass.
If the American public actually gets a good look at what they are really planning for us, not the spin, it to will never pass.
Their only option is to ram it through quickly, in the summer when fewer people are paying attention and deal with the fallout when it is too late and oh golly gee whiz it, just like the other parts of Obama’s spending plans, is not working out the way we thought it would and that will mean even more rationing of health care AND higher taxes and premiums for all.

NMN: Thanks. It seems that our Congress is impotent these days and votes with Obama because it does not know what else to do.
The one thing we can do is make sure that we make our displeasure heard with those members of Congress that are up for re-election. We vote out all the rubber-stamps for free willed thinkers.
Obama knows that this will happen and he is counting on pulling this off so fast that it will be old news by the time mid-term elections come around. The problem is that the recession will definitely be with us as we have abandoned an intelligent effort at combating that in order to pursue Obama’s other plans.
When is this country going to have leaders that are interested in us – the people? Obama is clearly interested in himself and his place in history. He is about as egocentric and self-centered as Richard Nixon. I am such a fool for having voted for the man.

The one thing we can do is make sure that we make our displeasure heard with those members of Congress that are up for re-election. We vote out all the rubber-stamps for free willed thinkers.
Obama knows that this will happen and he is counting on pulling this off so fast that it will be old news by the time mid-term elections come around. The problem is that the recession will definitely be with us as we have abandoned an intelligent effort at combating that in order to pursue Obama’s other plans.
When is this country going to have leaders that are interested in us – the people? Obama is clearly interested in himself and his place in history. He is about as egocentric and self-centered as Richard Nixon. I am such a fool for having voted for the man.
Posted by: Jon F | Jun 7, 2009 6:33:13 PM
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One of the arguments we hear is how well this all works in Europe, that they are happy with their health care even with the higher taxes.
It is not so, but in case you doubt how unhappy Europe is with their liberal tax and spenders you should review todays election results.
IN Europe they had elections today and the left suffered massive losses from Spain (with unemployment approaching 18% under libs), to Germany to Great Britain and more they are all moving to the right.
The tax and spend and massive social programs and national health care experiments have failed miserably and the europeans finally have had enough.
If Obama had half a brain, and he doesn’t, he would learn that lesson. However his goal is not truly national health care. His goal seems to be to somehow punish those that work hard, pay their mortgage, pay their credit cards and other bills, pay for their health insurance and do the right thing.
California is bankrupt for their high taxes and social spending and the entire country is headed down that road. Who will bail us out then??
Wouldn’t it be better to get our economic house in order before we take on another unnecessary massive program like this government run health care. Then and only then we can look for solutions to help those that truly cannot afford health care and not throw out the best system in the world so Obama can buy more power.
Don’t you just know he will unionize health care workers and give another union obama supporting group a boost.
Do not fall for his fake line of caring about us. It is all about Obama all the time.

Based on Dreams of My Father, all the libs think Obama is a genious. Obama did not write it (william Ayers did) but here is a known sample of Obama’s writing:
Under water grottos, caverns
Filled with apes
That eat figs.
Stepping on the figs
That the apes
Eat, they crunch.
The apes howl, bare
Their fangs, dance …

must tell you now that healthcare reform is now a critical matter of NATIONAL SECURITY. A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) was yet another loud WAKE-UP! call. And there is MUCH! worse lurking, and poised to strike at any moment. Working against the clock, many of us have known this for a long time now. And this is why we have been pushing so hard for so long without fully saying why. But Congress and the American people are literally running out of time.
I’ll tell you more later. But get healthcare reform done NOW!.
SPREAD THE WORD!
God Bless All Of You
jacksmith — WORKING CLASS
Posted by: jacksmith | Jun 7, 2009 7:27:10 PM
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so you are telling us there is a secret reason you are pushing for health care and we have to do it quickly or this secret will put us in grave peril.
You must be making a joke.
Hurry, hurry, there is a really good reason to pass healthcare right now. Especially since Obama’s employee Christine Romer says so. ARE YOU KIDDING???
If it were such good policy to have national health care why don’t they tell us this “secret reason” and give us the full details.
It is ludicrous to rush something so important, if it is done at all.
There is no majority of the population who wants this.
IN Europe this failed so badly that in elections today the left suffered massive losses. Germany, Spain, France, Great Britain and more all suffered losses because the people were sick and tired of the tax and spend social programs.
NO NO NO. We do not need to rush this. There is no secret and the people deserve a full accounting of this program before it is passed and we suffer the same high taxes and chronic high unemployment that europe suffers.
NO NO NO. Call your senators and congressman and tell them we want details and costs. We want to know what the premiums will be and lets have some independent analysis of those numbers because we already know they screwed up every estimate on the economy Obama has made so far.
NO tell your congressman and senators no. We will not blindly support this massive spending bill.
We do not need to destroy the best system in the world . Lets work to help those who truly cannot afford insurance. This is a lot less expensive and has far fewer long term risks than replacing a system that most people are happy with!

Funny how you neocons never raised your voices when The Republican President and the Republican Congress rubber stamped everything, or when they lied to the American people about Iraq, or when they got us into an illegal war and thousands of our young men and women died, and when their poilcies collapsed our economy, and or, or or!
The only reason you are so against “Rush, Rush” now is you know that universal health care is going to kill you in 2010 if it gets passed. Your ideology proves Darwin right: If you don’t adapt to your ever-changing environment, you will start to die out and hopefully in the G.NO.P’s case, become extinct. Remember the Whigs?

In a poll taken last year, 65% of Americans support universal healthcare.
65%. That’s nearly 3/4ths of the entire country.
The American people want this. It’s time for politicians to listen to the will of the people. There are two things holding us back: corruption of the insurance industry, and the archaic and abhorrent values of the far right.
In my book, it’s safe to ignore both. Nothing changes the fact that the majority of Americans want this. And it isn’t a small majority either. This is what America wants.
The rest of the world knows healthcare is a right. So do most Americans. This is basic morality here. We shouldn’t let corporations and a small number of conservatives prevent what the majority of us want and what the majority of the world already has.
Also, more than half of doctors favor universal healthcare:
Almost 60%.
But hey, why listen to the experts, right?

And “universal healthcare” does not necessarily mean that the government run all or part of it. Universal healthcare means that we all have access to affordable coverage. There are a million ways to get there. This is a major undertaking – not just some quick speedbump on Obama’s road to a greater vision.

After careful consideration, most experts agree with experts.

The problem with all of this is that I really don’t think our Congress has a clue as to what forms the people want health care to take. All they think about is survival in a new political climate of overspending and overreaction to the past.
I am in my mid 50′s and my wife and I pay (in California) about $6000 a month (yes, a month!) in health care premiums. We are fortunate to have lasted this long, but future increase will bankrupt us, and we certainly will never be able to pay them as we approach 60, let alone 65.
Despite all of this, I really feel that we need to have slow incremental change toward a more equitable system. While I’m certainly not a Republican, I am one of the evil people who makes a fair living – but even that is virtually blown away by health care costs. I look toward Medicare, and I will be eligible precisely in the year they are currently slated to go bankrupt. Now this does not make me want or not want a public option in health care reform, but it is a sobering thought about our government run programs.
My working assumption is that I will spend over 75% of my retirement money on staying alive in a medical sense. Its not comforting and makes me realize how screwed up things are.
Despite all of this, I cannot shake the feeling that this is way too fast and uses way too few brain cells than is really needed to do properly. If we did any kind of reform, it would be the largest reform of any country, involving more people, more money, and more medical care than half a dozen European countries.
So beyond the factor of politics, I do not see the rush rush rush to get this on the books by mid-summer. I could go on and on about aspects of any system that could severely overlook major segments of the population. I guess in the whirlwind of spending and legislative plans since the inaguration, I don’t see enough stability to just ram this through congress – solely because the Democrats have the ability to do so. Its about more than that. Its about the health and welfare of the American people.
Obama appears (I say appears) to not take us seriously when it comes to our welfare. It seems as if he is really out to change anything and everything – even if the change is not the best it could be. Well, change for the sake of change is nonsense.
Lastly, I find his campaign organization operating 24×365 to be offensive. It seems a bit too much of a sales tactic and less of a democratic process. It makes me wonder the motivations and concern that ix behind it all. Is it sincere – or are they just playing us as sheep?

Sandy, if you think it makes sense to call me names and insult my support of a former president in order to attempt to build support for the current president and his policies, I would respectfully suggest you think again. (I refer to your slurs that Republicans cannot complain about health care because Bush is evil, Republicans sent us into Iraq, etc. etc.) And the notion that Republicans oppose health care reform because we are worried about election results is beyond insulting. I am adamantly opposed to increased government-run health care and insurance because it will be detrimental to my country, not because it could be detrimental to my political party. The costs would be prohibitive. The quality and even the availability of health care could suffer under a single-payer system. The best and the brightest may be discouraged from pursuing careers in medicine, as they are now being discouraged from careers on Wall Street and other places that the government is beginning to be able to dictate salaries and working conditions. Sorry, but I will not apologize for refusing to simply get in line, sign a “grass roots” petition of support, and swallow whatever health care plan the president offers up.

Unless the stats have changed drastically since the beginning of the year most Americans are NOT happy with the current system and it’s costs.
Posted by: Skip | Jun 7, 2009 10:54:20 PM
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You are combining two separate issues.
When asked they are happy with the system and no maybe they would love to pay less.
Not wanting to pay for it is not the same as can’t afford it.
Costs for insurance have gone up and that is because of choice, fabulous technological advances, and adequate equiptment and infrastructure to provide health care on demand as opposed to the long waits and highly rationed care we will soon face.
Also the demand for routine services to be paid by insurance companies has kicked up the costs. Things like check-ups and so on.
I am not arguing the validity of that but, for example, if you asked your car insurance company to pay for oil changes, tune ups, and routine repairs, car insurance rates would skyrocket too.

There is no real “reform” intended. Merely an ultimate transference of the responsibility for paying for health care to taxpayers. Costs will continue to skyrocket and quality will decline as is always the case when government runs the show (see primary and secondary education for examples) or when government inundates the system with vast amounts of public money (see higher education). Cost containment measures (read: rationing) will inevitably follow and ultimately the US national health service will outpace Britain’s in high cost/low quality.
Posted by: KJo | Jun 8, 2009 10:39:08 AM
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Obama will collect insurance premiums from every citizen, then he will increase taxes.
They will reduce reimbursements to hospitals, physicians, home health care providers and so on.
They will spend the difference on their pet projects until this national health care goes broke like social security and medicare.
In europe this failed so badly that in elections across europe on Sunday they threw out the tax and spend liberals and moved right. They were polled and it was revealed that they were sick of the excess spending on social programs.
Why don’t we learn from their failure instead of repeating it.
THERE IS NO MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION THAT WANTS NATIONAL HEALTH CARE.
The public is evenly divided on this issue and it should not be rushed forward. All details should be presented to the public, including the premiums and tax increases. Then all of those numbers should be subject to independent analysis as Obama has severely miscalculated every major spending program and it’s effects on the economy so far
Don’t forget Obama told us that if we hurry, hurry and hurry to pass the stimulus bill we could keep unemployment at or below 8%.
It is now 9.4% and rising. That number is a false low because in april tens of thousands of workers were temporarily hired to do some pre assessment for the census. They are now unemployed.
Obama is now planning to add 600,000 more government jobs this summer to reduce unemployment but that massive increase will mean even more massive debt and deficit leading to higher taxes.
Creating fake jobs at taxpayer expense only worsens the economy it does not help it, although Obama only cares about how it all affects him, not us.
Say no to this upcoming healthcare debacle. Half of us don’t want it and that should be enough to at least put it on hold and hash it out thoroughly!

No plan should be allowed unless it requires all elected officials to have the exact same medical care as they are imposing on the rest of us.
NO exceptions. Ted Kennedy can get the rest of his treatment at Cape Cod hospital where he should have been treated since the beginning.

“In europe this failed so badly that in elections across europe on Sunday they threw out the tax and spend liberals and moved right. They were polled and it was revealed that they were sick of the excess spending on social programs.
ROFLMAO! The lies of the right wing.
Europe is much happier with their personal healthcare and their system as a whole than Americans.
The recent election had low turnout and reaction to scandal in a few countries.
“THERE IS NO MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION THAT WANTS NATIONAL HEALTH CARE.”
There is a clear majority that wants universal healthcare which does not need to be a nationalized system though it will have public insurance as a key element.
Pretty much what Obama has been proposing despite the fearmongering and lies by the right wing.

“but it’s definately of good quality”
Correction – definately NOT of good quality. It’s acceptable cause it’s “free” to them, even though they pay for it, hard for them to understand. But they are correct in that they have no choice, they pay for it, why do anything else.

The real reason right wingers hate public insurance.
“But critics argue that with low administrative costs and no need to produce profits, a public plan will start with an unfair pricing advantage. They say that if a public plan is allowed to pay doctors and hospitals at levels comparable to Medicare’s, which are substantially below commercial insurance rates, it could set premiums so low it would quickly consume the market.”

“Correction – definately NOT of good quality. It’s acceptable cause it’s “free” to them, even though they pay for it, hard for them to understand.”
Countries with nationalized health care kick our butts when it comes to ratings their systems.
Counting access in the formula, we are 37th ranked by the WHO.
Even removing access and we are 15th in most rankings for quality of health care.

“Gee ultra nationalist xenophobic right wingers blaiming their countries’ various ill on the outsider….where have we see that before”
Gee, the ultra left wing communists in Germany and in nearly all of the countries have seats too!
Maybe they should just be labeled “extremists”? And who decides who belongs on what political spectrum? Why aren’t they in their own little bubble, outside of the political spectrum, called “crazies”? I guess using your tools of perception, everyone slightly left of center and extreme left are “communist dicator wanna be’s” and everyone center right and right wing are “anti-immigrant, anti-government anarchists”.
Again, low voter turn out says more about their image of the current government than what those who did vote say. Would you fail to admit that low voter turn out could be, or perhaps would be, indicative of a loss of confidence in the current government? Kind of like, doesn’t matter, all politicians suck type of thing?
I know you are an extremely partisan person Ryan, but you always assume I am when I try to look at it from as many perspectives as possible. Sure, I am probably considered right of center, especially in national security, but it doesn’t mean I arrived there from blind perceptions.
Just a note on the immigrant issue, from my family in Germany, they are sick and tired of the endless immigrant population weighing down their social programs. They want a change in immigration policy so it doesn’t surprise me that “anti-immigration” platforms are gaining ground in Europe. Many European countries believe they are losing their identity as a nation because of it. Bigger question is who has a rational solution for it? In the absence of that, crazy fringe groups end up gaining ground. So what else is new?

Several years ago, my friends in the U.K. needed a surgeon for their ailing daughter (eight years old).. they refused to use the national health system, opting instead to pay for the entire procedure with their own money..they said that they would never even have considered doing otherwise.
I know it’s one unsubstantiated claim, but I wonder if this is a common thing in Western Europe.

“My wife said so is the answers to facts and figures.
The stupid…it burns.”
Facts and figures? A poll of people with singular experience, I offer someone in my personal life who as experienced both and share it, the good and bad of both, and you call it stupid. Degenerate into a personal attack, inferring my wife is stupid. You should be the recruiting poster child for the left and the Democrat party.
Here is a fact and figure for ya, bet you don’t know 1 person who has experience in both systems and so you have to lean on a poll of people who have no experience other than the system they are in to reinforce your view. This apparently threatens your philosophy so you resort to a personal attack. Hard to believe why anyone can’t see your side Ryan.

Ryan, you are inching over the line into rude. KR gave anecdotal evidence based on his wife’s actual experience, rather than just reciting statistics from a study that can be solid but can also be manipulated. I think both statistics and anecdotal evidence are important to this discussion on the national level. I mean, the Dems did encourage people to share their personal stories at their “grass roots” meetings this weekend. Guess you only want to hear stories that fit your template.
Let’s play nice. This is supposed to be a bipartisan effort to find solutions, remember?

Whatever the solution may be, it must contain key elements in my opinion. First and foremost, that the health care professional is serving the satisfaction of the patient. Their pay is tied to that satisfaction, and future business is tied to customer satisfaction.
Second is that there must be competition. Competition is a keystone of market economics that keep prices where they should be. Whatever is put in place, it should promote and thrive off competition. This may mean addressing PPO/HMO practice and laws to restrict it. It may also mean that individuals who get healthcare play a greater role in paying out that healthcare, be it a health savings account or what have you. If you have to write a check for that service, you will be more aware of the costs and thus shop around.
Lastly is to not only look at the cost to the consumer, but the operating cost of the health care professional. If their operating costs go down, so does that cost to the consumer. What are the significant costs to them? I am under the impression that they have their own outrages liability insurance costs. Steps must be taken to lower the liability of the healthcare professional and their equipment. Tort reform and punitive monetary settlements should be reformed, relegated to lost wages instead of large sum payouts that beneifit lawyers. Lawyers are making way too much money in the health care environment at our expense.
Lastly, R&D. The only place where I support government involvement and funding is in the realm of health R&D. Currently, health care research costs are past down to the consumer which of course makes sense. New drugs on the market, when introduced, have significant costs to make up for their R&D. If the government either steps up R&D investment, or offers tax exemptions from R&D to help reduce costs, that in turn should also reduce costs to the consumer and promote great R&D developments, keeping the quality of our health care the best it can be.
Just my thoughts.