President Obama on Energy Bill: “Make No Mistake, This Is a Jobs Bill”

Obamacrat for Palin . ..
You ‘used to’ support the President, yet you have basically opposed everything the President has done.
The President is doing pretty much what he said he would during the election campaign.
I’m left believing you’re not that well able to inform yourself or your thinking is severely flawed. Or perhaps you’re a liar.
None of the options are all that flattering.

MNM . …
One study done by one man . . . and one that is being roundly critisized.
Of course if it fits with your belief system, it must be right.

This particular President is a prime example why we should have recall votes
in our system.

“DO an online search for yourselves.
Here is a small excerpt from ABC’s George Will’s report:”
And when doing online research, NEVER EVER take a right winger’s word for it when they state something.
“Calzada, 36, an economics professor at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos,”
Gabriel Calzada is Associate Professor of Economics at the King Juan Carlos University in Spain and Founder-President of the libertarian think tank Instituto Juan de Mariana.
Calzada is a climate change skeptic and was a speaker at the International Conference on Climate Change (2009) hosted by the conservative think tank, the Heartland Institute.
His opinion is worthless to most people except of course for himself and the industries paying him.

Obama will not get away with this statement. Heritage Foundation has already finished running the numbers for all the sectors in the US economy. There are millions upon millions of jobs that will be lost because of this bill. And this does not include the skyrocketing costs per individual for goods and services…. Definitely could not ruin the economy more than if they were deliberately trying to cause an economic collapse… Gimme a break!

Make no mistake; this is a HUGE TAX bill.

Like “Obamacrat for Palin”, I backed Obama early on. What was not to like? A good looking, well spoken up and comer, but then I became aware of Reverend Wright and the other cast of characters behind the man. The tipping point was the media’s attacks on Governor Palin. It didn’t add up, Obama was not a moderate, and I changed my support.
Back to the bill- The Waxman-Markey bill will cause trillions of dollars in lost income, 50-90 percent higher energy costs, 2.5 million lost jobs, trillions of dollars of higher taxes, and trillions more debt all by 2035.
Those backing this monstrosity of an economy and jobs buster bill say that it might, MIGHT moderate the world temperature by 0.05 degree Celsius by 2050. Smoke and mirrors: “Cap and Trade” is code for “Cack and Tax”.

Just yesterday Warren Buffett called this bill nothing more than “a huge regressive tax.” He also said “the U.S. economy is in Shambles and there are no signs of recovery yet.” No green shoots! Nothing! Why in g-d’s name is this “president” trying to shove this job-killing, family taxing, deficit raising bill through Congress when our economy is in the tank? This is total INSANITY! I just called my Congressman and told him to vote NO on HR2454 but he’s a Liberal and I don’t expect him to do so. He can expect me to vote him OUT of office next year if he votes for this UTILITY TAX!

He has 60% job approval.
Posted by: Ryan C
————————————–
According to Rasmussen, the most accurate poll in America, it is down to 53%

Listen I know it’s shocking for you ‘right wingers’ on here to see a President actually do what he promised to do during his campaign (ie. come through on election promises) – but you’re going to have to get used to it.
Posted by: danita
————————————-
And I hope YOU can get used to paying $1600. per year more for gasoline, natural gas, electricity, etc. No whining!!

He has 60% job approval. ++++From what I have read on this site (George S himself) his ratings are at 52% at the most and more people than not feel his economic policies and stimulus plan are heading our country in the wrong direction and are in the mid 40% percentile and slipping every week.

Jobs bill? Who is he kidding? The consumer is going to get hit with higher taxes, higher energy costs, higher costs of goods and services. When even starts cutting back on consumption, as is the intent of the bill, how many jobs do you think that is going to create??? Get your head out of the sand.(i’m being nice here).
Danita, read something once in a while

stickman . …
Yes, largely President Obama is doing exactly what he campaigned on – I know this is unusual and hard for you ‘right wingers’ to take.
Most people realize he’s doing pretty much what he said he would.
It makes me think back to the Bush Republicans and how they promised ‘smaller government’ and then ran up deficits on average of HALF A TRILLION dollars EVERY year, effectively doubling the national debt from $5 trillion to $10 trillion. Now, that was a major election promise that turned out to be complete garbage.

danita ‘Yes, it is shocking . .. President Obama is doing exactly what his campaign platform laid out . .. and he’s doing it with great efficiency.——-Incorrect. All bills will be posted for five days before they are voted on? That was a promise. I can list a whole bunch more. Cherry picking this platform danita?? yes you are

He has a 60% job approval rating
Posted by Ryan C
For now…let’s see what his approval rating is six months to a year from now.
I bet the approval rating is much lower with the passage of time.

danita….new taxes on health care…we are going to have the same insurance as congress….sign this bill now or unemployment will rise to 8%. engage in diplopmacy while iran riggs an election and the north koreans aim missles at hawaii….the emperor is loosing his clothes quickly.

The current clean-energy dividend legislation will not make U.S. businesses less competitive in the global market. On the contrary, few pieces of legislation can have a more profound effect on the U.S. economy than the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009. The bill will break our dangerous reliance on foreign oil, make our nation the leader in clean energy technology and cut down on factors that accelerate the deterioration of the atmosphere. The clean energy dividend system would limit carbon emissions and require companies that produce or use carbon energy to buy carbon emission credits from the government or an open market.
The revenue generated by auctioning carbon allowances can be used to finance public projects and put millions of Americans back to work transforming our homes, buildings and transportation needs for new energy efficiency standards with jobs that can’t be shipped overseas.
We cannot compete in the 21st century with a 20th century mindset.
Amy F. Isaacs, Americans for Democratic Action

It’s so surprising the ‘right wingers’ on here are so shocked President Obama is largely setting out to do exactly what he promised during the election.
It’s also surprising you’re so critical of spending – the Bush administration overspent by HALF A TRILLION dollars on average EVERY YEAR – and tried to pretend they could do this without raising taxes. Now they’re blaming President Obama.

I agreed with the President – polluters should pay. Who else?

He only has a 46% approval rating among independents.. and thats going down fast
Middle Class will take a massive hit on this bill….How ya like him now????? lmao

Posted by: rightsideofmymind | Jun 25, 2009 4:03:16 PM
Actually, Obama’s approval rating has dropped to 53% and the disapproval rate (policies) is growing. There is a chart showing that the two lines are closing and will be intersecting/crossing each other soon. If they pass cap and tax, there maybe an enormous turn-out for the 4th of July Tea Parties.

“Actually, Obama’s approval rating has dropped to 53% and the disapproval rate (policies) is growing.”
In a single daily tracking poll from 4 days that overweights for Republicans.
Rasmussen today has Obama at 56%
RCP does a poll compilation and average of the two daily polls (Ras & Gallup) as well a 5 or 6 of the most recent polls from the last two weeks.
They have Obama at 60.3% which is pretty much in line with where he has been for 3 months now.

“For now…let’s see what his approval rating is six months to a year from now.
I bet the approval rating is much lower with the passage of time.”
Time will tell.
But for now his approval ratings have been quite consistent.

“The president ignored questions shouted by reporters about what he’s doing to help pass the bill and whether he’s disappointed by the his previously stated goal of 100% of carbon emissions auctioned off being reduced to 15%.”
I doubt he is completely disappointed because he will get his 100%.
The unmentioned fact is that it starts at 15% but will rise yearly to 100% and ultimately cost the average family almost $7000/year.
The lying dems just wanted to move slowly initially so that when the biggest hit to the american public kicks in they can shirk their responsibility for the damage they have caused.
No one is talking about how the costs to the average family, that will increase every single year until 2035 when it maxes out and stays permanently at that massive tax level.
And in true Obama getting even with those that don’t love him fashion, the worst hits will be in red states vs blue states.

MNM:”The model that this is based on, the model in Spain,”
What nonsense. The Waxman-Markey bill is more accurately based on the highly successful US cap and trade legislation that brought sulfur emissions under control, harnessing the free market wildly effectively to deal with the acid rain program in a text-book market optimized manner.
Dozens of nations in Europe have a cap and trade system in place. Not surprisingly, partisans can find one where it has not worked well. I expect to carbon trading correlated to an increase in cancer deaths and milk spoiling faster too just as soon as the coal industry’s checks to the “think”tanks clear.

Our economy would already be on the way to recovery had the Obama administration not tried to fix a health care system that is the envy of the world. What we need is a government run system of clinics for the uninsured. It would be much cheaper than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The economy would also be much further along if cap and tax were not being proposed at this time. FDR extended a recession into a depression lasting 10 years by raising taxes at exactly the wrong time. The stimulus is so small compared to what the Obama administration proposed legislation will cost. Ten years of no growth. A lower standard of living. He is putting the country at risk of becoming a second rate power because of his ego and the egos of George Soros, Al Gore and Rahm Emanuel.

“I agree with Warren Buffet, and all economists”
In a separate interview with Bloomberg, Buffett also suggested that the US Government may need to consider a second stimulus program in order to prevent rising unemployment, which is widely predicted to hit at least 10%.
“It looks like we’re going to need more medicine, not less,” Buffett said today in a Bloomberg Television interview. “We’re going to have more unemployment. The recovery really hasn’t got going.”
Still agree with Warren?

“Our economy would already be on the way to recovery had the Obama administration not tried to fix a health care system that is the envy of the world.”
Really . ..

“Okay in 2007 he said that we are glbal citzens and he will stand for liberty. Didn’t do it.”
What no bombing?

danita: polluters should pay. who else?—well, unless you’re amish and riding in your buggy to work at the state-run company, you’ll pay. And by the time your progeny gets around to buggy-driving age, they’ll pay multiple times what you pay.

Sadie . ..
Putting ‘right winger’ in quotation marks is done to indicate just what you are pointing out – that not all objectors are ‘right wingers’ but many are.
By the way, people who use the “drink Kool-Aid” line about the Americans who support the President reveal themselves right away as cheap-shot artists at the very least.

jone. ….
the less you pollute, the less you’ll pay . … makes sense to me.

President Obama on Energy Bill: “Make No Mistake, This Is a Jobs Bill” Absolutely. The Stimulus Bill was a jobs Bill and it is doing it’s job, 10% unemployment and rising. The Energy Bill will do even better. With the signing of this bill we can get to 20% unemployment.

“warrens most important point is…OBAMAS PLAN IS NOT WORKING.”
At which point he called for a 2nd stimulus bill.
Okey dokey.

jhw539 This sort of manufactured indignation is endemic with the Republican party and gets in the way of debating the actual facts of the issues+++++Actually I think that the “right” learned that technique from you guys.

Danita,
Drinking Kool-Aid refers to anyone who doesn’t use their brains…
Have fun with this list from people who understand the repercussions of poorly crafted policies:
1. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Impose a National Energy Tax on Every Single American.
2. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Cost American Jobs, Shipping Them Overseas to China & India.
3. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Cause Electricity Bills to “Skyrocket.”
4. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Hurt Family Farmers & Rural America
5. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Not Improve the Environment
6. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Cause Gasoline and Diesel Prices to Spike Further.
7. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Be A Bureaucratic Nightmare.
8. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Send Billions of US Taxpayer Dollars Overseas.
9. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Raise Food Prices.
10. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax Will Set the Stage for Another Market Meltdown.
11. Speaker Pelosi’s National Energy Tax could cause a trade war with China and India.

LightDuty:”Spain tried this already. They lost 2 jobs for every job created.”
What about France? Germany? Switzerland? The dozen+ other countries that implemented it?
And your claim of job losses is based on a single study with a clear partisan objective. I don’t trust it any more than I would trust one commissioned by the Daily Kos.

jone … .
exactly, if I pollute . . . I pay. It makes sense to me.

jone. ….
the less you pollute, the less you’ll pay . … makes sense to me.
Posted by: danita | Jun 25, 2009 4:35:32 PM

Dozens of nations in Europe have a cap and trade system in place. Not surprisingly, partisans can find one where it has not worked well. I expect to carbon trading correlated to an increase in cancer deaths and milk spoiling faster too just as soon as the coal industry’s checks to the “think”tanks clear.
Posted by: jhw539 | Jun 25, 2009 4:23:20 PM
—
Since it’s easy to find at least 1 case to support your argument, show us 1 case where cap & trade has lead to higher employement.
Not counting India and China, who are benefitting greatly from the West’s increase in barriers to production.

Lightduty:”By producing fewer goods and services. Fewer airline flights. Less electricity. Fewer deliveries of fresh vegetables.”
Actually, the more common way is to invest in energy efficiency measures with a simple payback of 3 years or less. For datacenters, that is investing in a waterside freecooling system or air side economizer to reduce energy consumption 10-70% (dependent upon climate). For a concrete plant, looking at better heat recovery from the kiln exhaust and optimizing the conveyor belt from the quarry. For an office building, looking at retrocomissioning and considering replacing air cooled DX boxcars with a small water cooled chiller (and the dull lighting stuff – daylighting controls, super T-8s, etc.).
There is ENORMOUS opportunity to reduce energy usage in industry without reducing production one bit. And most of it entails buying and installing new things, like triple element windows or a VFD driven centrifugal chiller, that will pay for themselves in reduced energy use over the course of 3-5 years.

The supposed study author George Will relies upon is climate change denier who is an associate prof.
Posted by: Ryan C | Jun 25, 2009 4:35:56 PM
—
“Climate change denier”. When you’re denying things that really don’t exist, it’s called stating the obvious. Why do you think Obama has to call this a jobs bill? Because if it was a “global warming bill”, Americans would laugh it out of town. On a list of 20 things Americans are worried about, climate change came in 20th.
Even his backup argument isn’t climate change, it’s national security.

Next week President Obama plans to unvail a massive new jobs program.Starting in mid July in every city in the U.S. construction will begin on public pay toilets. How many each city gets depends on population. The plan is called Crap and trade. I hear Barny Franks will be the czar of this new project.

danita, Christmas Island in the s.Pacific is a beautiful little place, where you don’t need much to stay afloat from the rising tide of consumerism and the(insert industry here) progress we enjoy.
May I propose you live on that island, with your “less pollutive” lifestyle. Geesh, but that airfare there may hit you hard in the coinpurse. The meanwhile, as a citizen of this situation, I choose to not have things rammed down the voting aisles, and seriously debated. Why the hurry?

Lightduty:”Since it’s easy to find at least 1 case to support your argument, show us 1 case where cap & trade has lead to higher employement.”
Nothing is that simple in a complex economy, and I doubt you actually care about real facts, but for the last 2 years Fortune magazine has rated Denmark as the “Best Country for Business.” Carbon cap and trade was trialled in Denmark and Phase I went into effect Jan 2005. Denmark is currently a world leader in the design and manufacture of wind turbines.

jone . …
I don’t have to move anywhere, I’m putting things in action here at home.
Honestly I’m not sure how long the ‘consumer’ society can sustain itself regardless.
North America has led the way in how to be wasteful. Now it will lead the way in how to be sustainable.

Boxcar:”Alot of that has already been done in the past 10 years in retro fits and is pretty much standard even in new construction including geothermal systems.”
That is nonsense. I work in that industry. The only measure with deep penetration is T-8 lighting (a matter of some annoyance to me as a mechanical, since a new chiller usually has a better payback but isn’t as visible and gets overlooked).
California’s T24 has had a significant impact – easily seen by their amazing freeze of energy use at 1970′s levels despite massive increases in economic output – but that’s only one state. The US has just scratched the surface of what basic efficiency measures can do.

CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring compound present in a very small amount in the atmosphere (lest than 1 percent) and is absolutely essential to life on earth. CO2 is what plants absorb to grow and to release oxygen for animals to breathe.
The cap and trade policy will have zero effect on the levels of C02 in the atmosphere. They will have a very deleterious effect on the standard of living and on the amount of personal freedom in this country.
Let’s only hope that the true costs of this foolish law will become apparent before it is too late to reverse it.

“How do you pollute less? You do that by turing off some lights. How does a large company pollute less? By producing fewer goods and services. Fewer airline flights. Less electricity. Fewer deliveries of fresh vegetables.”
Lightduty . .. how do we pollute less is a very good question. Much work has been done on this through the years, and more and more is being done now.
I think some of the answers are very apparent – and some you might actually have to do some work researcher for yourself.
Not driving a gas guzzler is one, stopping waste of food and goods is another (can you imagine how much food the United States throws into the garbage every day?), not spewing coal burning pollutants into the air is another. Opening a window and not running your home on air conditioning all the time is another. Turning off office building lights at night is another. Not using water resources to sustain acres of television screen suburban lawns in the south western united states is another.
The list could go on and on. It takes a bit of research and thought.
Posted by: danita | Jun 25, 2009 5:03:21 PM
—————
You must be too young to remember Jimmy Carter with his sweater on telling us to turn down the thermostat.
You don’t remember the “gas lines” at gas stations.
You probably don’t remember that mortgage rates went up to 16+ percent.
You probably don’t remember that jimma gave us a 70% top tax rate that caused enormous damage.
Obama’s damage will make Carter look like a conservative.
We have already proven these approaches are useless, and we should drill our own if we want to reduce dependence.
This massive tax bill will kill jobs.
Spain had almost identical cap and trade plans that cost 2.2 jobs for every job created, in addition the cost of each job created ranged from $800,000 to over a million dollars per job, and most of them were temporary not permanent jobs. Let me be clear. To create a single job cost about a million dollars and it put 2 other people out of work. Does that make sense to any of you???
The CBO gave an estimated cost per family…FOR THE FIRST YEAR ONLY, IT GOES UP EVERY YEAR.
IN ADDITION, the CBO has a half dozen caveats of things they did not take into account when assessing the cost to the economy such as the effect on THE GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT!!!!!
That is the economy. The CBO so narrowly focused it’s report as to help the dems give their false impression of the actual cost. The dems know once this passes … whatever the cost to families… they won and we will continue to be taxed into oblivion and a far far lower standard of living.
Don’t forget the cost of this bill increases every year and caps in the year 2035 at about $7000 / per family/per year.
That is a tax increase every year for 11 years…oops, did the dems forget to tell you that??
I WONDER WHY!

jhw, you are always talking about how other countries do things, please feel free to move to anyone of them.

jhw539 I have worked in that industry too across my state for the past 20 years both in the architectural and engineering field, specifically environmental and mechanical engineering so I actually know something about it.

“John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon Nuclear is headquartered in Warrenville, Ill., and is a business unit of Exelon Corporation. It operates the largest nuclear fleet in the nation and the third largest fleet in the world. Exelon’s ten stations – with 17 reactors – represent approximately 20 percent of the U.S. nuclear industry’s power capacity.
Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers.
Another Obama donor, John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group, based in Washington. Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate.
In addition, Mr. Obama’s chief political strategist, David Axelrod, has worked as a consultant to Exelon. A spokeswoman for Exelon said Mr. Axelrod’s company had helped an Exelon subsidiary, Commonwealth Edison, with communications strategy periodically since 2002, but had no involvement in the leak controversy or other nuclear issues.
Who really benefits from this Energy Bill?
Follow the money. Connect the dots!

Beautiful day here . … I’m off to enjoy.
Think about ways to lower your own waste and pollution. Think for the next three generations ahead.

MNM:”Don’t forget the cost of this bill increases every year and caps in the year 2035 at about $7000 / per family/per year.
That is a tax increase every year for 11 years…oops, did the dems forget to tell you that??
I WONDER WHY!”
Uh, because that nonsense is a blatantly unsupported lie. Has the Right move to the Big Lie strategy already?

Yes, it is a nice day here! I’m off to join ‘danica’ on a nice bike ride, through the lily-laden meadow, on the way to the farmers market…where we will pay $6 per lb for cherries (because it cost farmer x a slew of federal/state taxes to fill up his ol’ pickup truck)

The Energy Bill being pushed for a quick vote this week is, as President Omaba says, a jobs bill. We will all have to get more jobs to pay our home energy bills if this passes.

Percy:”John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group…
Who really benefits from this Energy Bill? ”
One of the Republican complaints is that nuclear energy DOES NOT benefit from this bill. Which makes your implication look embarrassingly ill informed.

You guys are living in a pipe dream. Where does the energy come from when you plug your car in? How are solar panels made?(not green ill tell you that) What if you green folk were around a hundred years ago??? No Hoover Dam, no freeways, cars, planes, nothin. I sure can’t wait for this tax to go through….. rainbows and unicorns for everyone.

Boxcar:” Fiscal matters and budgets just wont allow it and you cant make them update every 5 years or so to keep up with technology. ”
Actually, T24 does crank up the efficiency bar about every 5 years and manufacturers keep up just fine (not very exciting really – mostly more condenser copper and TXV valves or compressor control updates).
The efficient technology is there, but it is not widely deployed. It can be, and the best way to make it happen is to give the free market the proper price signals and let it respond.

“Make no mistake, this is a jobs bill,” Mr. Obama said, arguing that the bill would “create incentives to spark a clean energy economy.”
Make No Mistake this is a Snow Job!
Just Say No to the Dictator, Obama!
This bill will kill jobs and force
a heavy burden on seniors and other
Americans by hiking their electric
bills and gas prices at the pump.
Just Say No to the Dictator.
Enough is enough.

Boxcar:”By the way, what about disposal of all those wonderful fluorescents?”
About as difficult as the disposal of alkaline batteries. If you’re an engineer surely you understand the numbers enough to laugh at the silly mercury FUD.

jhw539 sorry, I just assumed you being a green liberal……… :) just having fun.

jhw539 I just know how many people actually properly dispose of batteries and fluorescent lights….pretty much nobody.

“Make no mistake, this is a jobs bill.”
Wow, this bill is going to create jobs too? I remember when the stuttering dope was selling the (anti)stimulus bill, and that was supposed to be all about saving and creating jobs too.
How’s that working out, as we blow past 9.5% unemployment?
Yeah, cap and trade- oughta give us about 12.5% unemployment (low end)- thanks Barky and Waxman!

jhw…Hanging out your laundry one time a week as well as living in a 1700 sq. ft house is all good, no doubt, on a small scale; however, it will take more than a clothes line 800 sq ft less to save 15%. But again the point in which I was trying to make is that the lower to middle-class income cannot afford to pay for the increase in costs of Obama’s energy policies. Energy companies will pass on the higher cost of doing business to the consumer. And yes, being a devoted greenie is expensive not only in a monetary sense but the time and labor as well..It is a life-style change that not all can afford.. At this time I am much more concerned for the unemployed and seniors on fixed incomes who are facing hot summers and cold winters than their ability to save 15% in energy..but I guess that will come uncomfortably natural when when energy cost go through the roof.. BTW Guess I am one of those crazy people who does recycle all my spent batteries…

at least 5 states icluding arizona are to file suit claiming that national health care violates states rights, cap and trade will be the same. states are going to fight for their rights againgst wing nut legislation being crafted in san francisco.please mr obama just leave me alone,i dont want or need your help.

Heritage Foundation says “An analysis of the Waxman-Markey bill (as reported out of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce) by The Heritage Foundation found that unemployment will increase by nearly 2 million in 2012, the first year of the program, and reach nearly 2.5 million in 2035, the last year of the analysis. Total GDP loss by 2035 would be $9.4 trillion. The national debt would balloon as the economy slowed, saddling a family of four with $114,915 of additional national debt. Families would also suffer, as the bill would slap the equivalent of a $4,609 tax on a family of four by 2035.”

banning33 | Jun 25, 2009 7:06:22 PM………Well said.

There are doubts about the effectiveness of the same programs in Europe. Many don’t believe the earth is still warming. So, given the state of the economy, adding these costs will not help individuals, business, nor a net long term job creation.

THOUSAND OF JOBS PRODUCING WINDMILLS – YEAH, WINDMILLS HAVE SOME VALUE, BUT TO RECOGNIZE THEM AS A MAJOR SOURCE OF ENERGY IS PURE FOLLY. GOV MAKE WORK PROJECTS EITHER GO BUST OR HAVE AN END POINT, SURELY TO BRING BACK THE SONG “BROTHER CAN YOU SPARE A DIME!!” REAL ECONOMIC GROWTH CAN ONLY BE ACHIEVED THROUGH THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND ONLY WHEN THE FED CREATES AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE BUSINESS CAN COMPETE FAIRLY ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS WITHOUT HAVING BOTH HANDS TIED THEIR BACKS. ROMNEY WASN’T MY FIRST CHOICE, BUT HE WOULD BE A SIGHT FOR SORE EYES AT THIS POINT. OBAMA HAS NO CLUE.

Now I’ll be accused of parroting conservatives or drinking Kool-aid.

Here’s some things this writer conveniently left out:
The DRAFT version of this Bill was 648 pages long!! Now the bill is over 1,200 pages long!!! Is congress going to be asked to push this bill through as quickly as possible again? The draft version was unbelievable in what our legislators were attempting to do. In addition to CO2 limits, it controls what kind of light bulbs you can buy, it places taxes on far more industries than just CO2 emitters, it takes our tax money and allows government to buy up private land (while our government is in debt??), it takes our tax money and funnels it to foreign governments for their global warming schemes. This is the kind of bill that deserves defeat and the sponsors should be removed from office for wasting their time on and our tax money on. It was created by Waxman and Markey, both are career politicians who hold their on personal agendas above the people they are supposed to represent.

Windmills are good, solar is good, nuclear is good (yucca is ready to accept the waste; in fact Obama may make a few billion selling storage space), but they all have various draw backs. We need coal, oil and gas, until we deal with those drawbacks. The world economies are contracting. Our economy does not need any new massive debt.

OH . ..
Glad to hear you admit that – Bush and the Republicans bankrupted us to the tune of $10 trillion dollars and knew it would have to be paid for in our taxes.
And now the Republicans are whining. What a bunch of hypocrites.

Obama says “We’ve seen our reliance on fossil fuels jeopardize our national security,”. If the enviromentalists would allow drilling, there would be jobs, tax revenue, and enough oil to put a damper on those who may want to hold us hostage. Can we chec gum and walk at the same time (aka drill and use oil and gas while we develop alternate energy sources)? The answer is only if Washington gets it done.

For sure OH – the Republicans are complete hypocrites for having run up the national debt to $10 trillion and now criticizing President Obama for his spending. It’s appalling.

danita, so what does it make you to whine about Bushs spending but say its okay for Obama to spend 3xs as much? Just a little piece of advice, you shouldn’t look up when you spit.

For all of those blaming Bush. The fact is that 7 out of the 8 years of that administration the defecit was going down. It increased with TARP which I opposed. Also the beginning of the bailouts, which I opposed. When I argue budget I only use numbers that the current adminstration has imposed on me and my children. If your arguement includes the word Bush you will never be convienced. Fine Obama is better choice than Bush. Except for the fact that Bush v. Obama was not the choice. Stop blaming Bush, the rich, and let’s start with January of 2009 for our facts. Also stop using bumper stickers as intelligent posts.

OH. . . somewhat but not to the same degree.
The Republicans came in promising smaller government, then grossly overspend year after year . . . and now have the gall to criticize President Obama for his spending. Something about that really stinks.

OH. . .
The Republicans came in promising smaller government, then grossly overspend year after year . . . and now have the gall to criticize President Obama for his spending. Something about that really stinks.

Mike_C . …
It is not me who is saying the Obama recovery spending is ‘okay’ – it is the solid majority of economists who say the ecomomic collapse might have been very, very damaging had these funds not been put into play.
Of course you remember it was under Bush that the billions of dollars in bailouts for financial institutions were put in motion under TARP. So please don’t try to pin that money of President Obama.
No, it is the Republicans who are the true hypocrits – always preaching small government then (like Bush) vastly overspending, and then coming back to hyprocritically damn the current President.
There is still time to change; you could do better.

Concerned in OH Thanks for getting it! The debt did increase under Bush But I was addressing deficit. And I don’t have the non-military numbers in front of me. The point I am trying to make for all of those who want to throw numbers out there is this. At some point Barack Obama has got to stop blaming Bush for the deficit or debt if you want to confuse it. His policies are all about controlling you the individual. It has nothing to do with making this country a better place, expanding the free market, a cleaner air society, healthcare for everyone. He wants everything you do to be controlled or regulated by the gonverment. Which in translation is that we PAY for our own demise. Think about this why is every idea the envro-geniuses come up with have the word Smart in it? How many thousands of dollars of your money did this adminstration spend on focus group idiots to come up with that so that average Americans(take that as insult if you choose) will buy into the lie of climate change.(AKA global warming before it became the absolute last thing on 90% of Americans polled list of thhings that are important.) Well it did rank above who won the last American Idol for me. But this isn’t about me.

LOL “vote of historic proportions” well he is right about that anyway, everything else is pretty much more of the same old campaign BS. What will be historic though is what this is going to take out of every ones pockets INCLUDING all of you blinded by the light libs and democrats. Lets see how this plays out when it’s starts costing you money and will you remember then he said 1600 bones over a decade?

THE COUNTRY IS DROWNING IN OIL AND OBAMA IS PUSHING WINDMILLS AND SOLAR? TOGETHER I DOUBT IF BOTH COULD EVER EQUAL FIFTEEN PERCENT OF OUR ENERGY NEEDS.

danita I conceded the increase under Bush what about my other points?

“This is a jobs bill.” Umm, yeah, jobs, that’s the ticket. Just like in Spain, right? No, this energy bill will not create a net improvement in the jobs rate. And it will raise costs for every family in America. I hope that Congress fails to pass the bill tomorrow.

Let’s forget the economic collapse and the hypocrisy – let’s just attack the President.
Posted by: danita | Jun 25, 2009 10:27:40 PM
Yes, danita, let’s forget about Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters and all their friends who cruised through Fannie and Freddie long enough to take home millions in compensation while Maxine Waters states there is nothing wrong with Fannie/Freddie it’s as strong as it’s very been – and “let’s just attack the President.”

Dantia stop hating Bush. This current Capa and Trade has nothing to do with Bush. I hate to interrupt your life but he has been out of office for 6 months. Your with Obama is distorting your view. Obama says alot and says nothing. Read Rules fot Radicals. Not as a Bible, but as an insight on exactly how this idiot….oh I mean idiolouge uses language to convince the stupid…I mean the average American what he is saying is true. The Government Aka Obama thinks the general public(you)are stupid. I don’t want a President that thinks I am stupid making any choices for me because I think liars are stupid. Full disclosure Obama dismissed Safeway’s medical care and I work for Safeway/

Forgive me if it’s hard to believe your quoted post Concerned in OH . ..
Weren’t you the one who was pushing and pushing the Ashely Todd nonsense on here (the young woman who alleged a ‘black’ Obama supporter beat her and carved a ‘B’ in her face back during the election) – which turned out to be a complete scam.

What Obama is really saying, “Make no mistake (pause for affect) this is a tax bill meant to increase your monthly gas/electric bill.” Thanks for watching out for middle-lower class Obama. Now I can really pump money into the economy after earning $3000 monthly and paying $1600 for rent, ~$500 gas/elec (about to go up) , and cost of living/food for my family of 4. Oh by the way, please socialize medicine so the quality of care I receive can decrease and I can later watch my mother and father die while waiting for an appointment to see a specialist. Forget about TORT reform even though doctors booed you during your speech to the AMA, what doctors know about cutting the cost of medicine. Doctors are not anointed by god like you.
Thank you,
Army vet father/husband supporting wife and 3 children.

OH . ..
What is the source and the date of whatever you’re quoting?

That’s really hard to believe OH. The unemployment rate was already over 7% in January 2009 and the economy was losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month.
Of course they are talking about the full impact of President Obama’s program coming in THE FOURTH QUARTER OF 2010, not now. We’re over a full year away from that.
So don’t prejudge it too quickly.

Concerned in OH . …
I don’t think this economic collapse is anything to joke about and I’m sure you don’t either.

“It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error.
“There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress.
“But, there is the more fundamental
uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic
relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly
in any given episode.
“Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the
current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity.”

Concerned in OH . …
Okay, now I see you’re just playing out your tired old agenda with no consideration of reality.
This was a preliminary report done BEFORE the final bill was drawn up and before the various compromises reached within the Congress and Senate – and you’re attempting to stick the Obama administration with these figures in order to make them look bad.
What has obviously happened is that despite what you call Obama’s ‘scare tactics’, the economic situation is actually WORSE than was first estimated.
As all of the world knows through their own economic situations, we’re not through this economic crisis yet . .. and President Obama has certainly cautioned about that.
Anyway, you’ve got your agenda to smear the President; it would appear not much is going to change that.

this argument of raising your electric bill is a joke. We’ve already been told it’s going through the roof. We can thank Republicans for removing all regualtion to “create competition”….. funny how that always ends up with 3 companies owning everything and raping the consumer. Thanks again pubs..

“Make No Mistake, This Is a Jobs Bill”
B.S.!

Sheeple:
In the 2005 published book How Green were the Nazis?: Nature, Environment, and Nation in the Third Reich the authors explain the Nazis received a warm welcome by the existing environmental organizations as there was ‘an ideological overlap between Nazi ideas and conservationist agendas’. As clearly illustrated by the current environmental groups, personal liberty is gladly sacrificed for what is called ‘the greater good’. It is a well-known fact that most of the environmental fanatics care nothing for matters of liberty, gladly surrendering it to tyrants and their promises of ‘environmental sustainability’. As the authors state: ‘The Nazis created nature preserves, championed sustainable forestry, curbed air pollution, and designed the autobahn highway network as a way of bringing Germans closer to nature.’ Several nationwide programs were initiated by the Nazis as a facade to cover their real plans. The first, ‘Beauty of Labour’, was created in 1934 to enhance the concept of a comfortable and pleasant workspace for the German worker. In the following year this ordinance was followed up by a ‘Reich Nature Protection Law’ to ensure the worker could walk through parks without worries. Also, laws were enacted to control air pollution. Besides of the fact that all political opponents were deported to concentration camps, it was green and happy days in Nazi-Germany.
But the hardcore environmentalists who had found their champion in the person of Adolf Hitler were soon to be disappointed. By the end of the 1930s, with a World War imminent, Hitler abandoned most of the environmental pretexts he had used to trick the masses, hook, line and sinker, replacing it with a war-ethos of sacrifice for the greater good and ‘lebensraum’. If only a pretext, the entire environmental thing was an excellent beta test for measuring the tolerance of the Germans in regards to the propaganda efforts of Goebbels which had indeed proven to be extremely effective. Not long after, Germany was plunged into a war that finally led to her complete dismemberment.

To talmag et al:
The power of the media and the stupidity of the American people cannot be underestimated here. Be warned: those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Doomed.

NEED TO IMPEACH ALL THE OBAMA AND HILLARY ADMINISTRATION AND PUT ALL OF THEM IN PRISON WHERE THEY BELONG NOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE AT ALL

You conservatives amaze me. It takes no longer than a couple hundred days for you to demonize and resent the “change”. We dealt with overstated world oppression and violation of our civil rights and blatant disregard to our world and environment. So the new administration inherits the worst economy since the great depression and you are so self absorbed that you can’t see past your own nose. I know its a new concept, but change is good. If you cannot break from the bad habits, disgusting over consumption and mind blowing waste we create as a nation for the rest of the world to shoulder the increase in our power bill over the next thirty years won’t matter because we’ll be living in tents in the Rockies if we’re lucky. Try, please try to break away from the “fat American” thought process and find hope in a new world. YES WE CAN!

Iftheir is a posibility to make our world better let it be done, by us,not to just talk,but do make a change,there is no other wayfor are future.